WEBVTT 00:07.173 --> 00:10.010 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (energetic music) 00:23.056 --> 00:27.994 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - [Narrator] On the icy cold morning of January 31st, 1961, 00:27.994 --> 00:30.363 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% 10 students started the mile-long walk 00:30.363 --> 00:32.599 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% from Friendship Junior College 00:32.599 --> 00:35.935 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to McCrory's Five & Dime Store on Main Street 00:35.935 --> 00:37.771 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in Rock Hill, South Carolina. 00:38.972 --> 00:41.708 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Nervous yet prepared for what was to come, 00:41.708 --> 00:43.843 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the young men made their way through the crowd 00:43.843 --> 00:46.179 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to the lunch counter while patrons 00:46.179 --> 00:48.615 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and police officers watched. 00:48.615 --> 00:51.551 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I had this nervous issue in my stomach, 00:51.551 --> 00:53.386 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and I know it came from fear. 00:53.386 --> 00:56.723 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You know, they call it butterflies, but I call it fear. 00:56.723 --> 00:58.591 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - [Narrator] The young men climbed onto the stools 00:58.591 --> 01:01.494 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% at the counter and awaited service. 01:01.494 --> 01:04.497 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Within seconds, police officers yanked each 01:04.497 --> 01:06.299 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of them from their seats as 01:06.299 --> 01:09.169 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the surrounding crowd yelled and taunted them. 01:09.169 --> 01:12.338 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - They grabbed me up by the seat of my pants 01:12.338 --> 01:17.043 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and my shoulder, and carry me out the back door. 01:17.043 --> 01:19.212 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - [Narrator] Officers dragged the students across the street 01:19.212 --> 01:22.315 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to the nearby police station where they were booked 01:22.315 --> 01:25.151 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and charged with trespassing and breach of peace. 01:26.319 --> 01:28.188 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% The students were thrown in jail and sentenced 01:28.188 --> 01:32.058 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to 30 days of hard labor on the York County chain gag. 01:33.526 --> 01:36.729 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% What followed would spark a movement reaching far beyond 01:36.729 --> 01:40.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the city of Rock Hill and the state of South Carolina, 01:40.033 --> 01:43.002 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and set into motion a new strategy 01:43.002 --> 01:44.838 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in the growing civil rights movement. 01:46.372 --> 01:49.109 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (dramatic music) 01:57.283 --> 01:59.986 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - And on set with us to give an historical perspective, 01:59.986 --> 02:02.388 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% are author and historian, Damon Fordham 02:02.388 --> 02:06.025 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and historian, businessman and pastor Chris Levy Johnson. 02:06.025 --> 02:07.594 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us today. 02:07.594 --> 02:09.028 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% We appreciate your time. 02:09.028 --> 02:09.896 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - You're welcome. 02:11.397 --> 02:13.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - This Jail Nobel documentary, 02:13.766 --> 02:17.770 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it's looking at the Friendship Nine, 02:17.770 --> 02:21.441 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% which originally were the Friendship 10, if you will. 02:21.441 --> 02:22.876 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Right. - But the Friendship nine, 02:22.876 --> 02:27.580 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the students, 1961, the sit-ins, 02:27.580 --> 02:30.383 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they went to jail but refused to pay bail. 02:32.318 --> 02:37.323 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% In your opinion, Reverend Levy, what's the significance 02:38.658 --> 02:42.095 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of those students deciding not to pay bail? 02:42.095 --> 02:44.464 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - I think it's very significant because beforehand 02:44.464 --> 02:47.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% with all the arrests, the NAACP, SNCC, CORE, 02:47.800 --> 02:51.271 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% some organization, some civil rights organization 02:51.271 --> 02:52.906 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% had pooled money together, 02:52.906 --> 02:54.407 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% brought the neighborhoods together, 02:54.407 --> 02:56.843 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% brought the community together to spend their own money, 02:56.843 --> 03:00.079 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% hardworking, hard-earned money that they needed, I'm sure, 03:00.079 --> 03:02.615 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for other things to bail people out of jail. 03:02.615 --> 03:05.785 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so these young men decided that instead of, 03:05.785 --> 03:08.054 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I wanna say wasted, but not really wasted, 03:08.054 --> 03:11.891 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because people start to have to sacrifice their own money. 03:11.891 --> 03:13.593 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They would not take any bail money, 03:13.593 --> 03:15.161 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and they would serve their time, 03:15.161 --> 03:18.298 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and they put, therefore, the onus on the white community 03:18.298 --> 03:20.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to pay for their jail time, 03:20.400 --> 03:21.401 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% to pay for their food, 03:21.401 --> 03:22.602 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% pay for the water, 03:22.602 --> 03:27.006 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% pay using city and I guess municipal dollars 03:27.006 --> 03:28.875 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to pay for them to stay in jail. 03:28.875 --> 03:30.376 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% So it did two things. 03:30.376 --> 03:33.846 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Number one, it of course it saved the organizations money, 03:33.846 --> 03:38.718 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but it also made the white community pay for the movement. 03:38.718 --> 03:43.723 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - So, Damon, looking at that same statement, 03:45.158 --> 03:47.327 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% what difference did it make that they did not pay bail 03:47.327 --> 03:48.695 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% after they went to jail? 03:49.862 --> 03:53.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% How did that enhance what they were doing. 03:53.733 --> 03:55.902 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - On a number of levels because see, 03:55.902 --> 03:58.004 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% there's precedent to this. 03:58.004 --> 04:01.741 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Back in 1958 when Dr. King was arrested back 04:01.741 --> 04:06.479 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in Montgomery, Alabama, where when they realized 04:06.479 --> 04:08.715 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% there was an unjust arrest, 04:08.715 --> 04:11.150 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% there was an unknown member of the city fathers 04:11.150 --> 04:14.254 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that paid Dr. King's way out because they realized 04:14.254 --> 04:16.956 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that to have him in jail would hurt their cause. 04:16.956 --> 04:19.626 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So people like Dub Massey and Thomas Gaither 04:19.626 --> 04:21.661 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and the students who were involved with this case, 04:21.661 --> 04:24.297 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% these young men studied such things. 04:24.297 --> 04:27.667 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so they understood that if they didn't pay the bail, 04:27.667 --> 04:31.237 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% number one, it would galvanize the attention 04:31.237 --> 04:33.473 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of the nation because you had a number of other citizens 04:33.473 --> 04:35.642 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in South Carolina prior to this point. 04:35.642 --> 04:38.845 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Plus, it would in fact show how committed these men were 04:38.845 --> 04:43.016 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to it, and with the Congress of Racial Equality 04:43.016 --> 04:45.318 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee 04:45.318 --> 04:47.954 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% on a national level rallying to their cause, 04:47.954 --> 04:50.723 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that would bring further attention to this cause. 04:50.723 --> 04:52.725 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So it wouldn't fade in the headlines because of all these 04:52.725 --> 04:54.560 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% other things that were going on at the time. 04:54.560 --> 04:58.131 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Looking at this sit-in situation 04:58.131 --> 05:01.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% where these young people refused to pay bail, 05:01.200 --> 05:04.537 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% was this the first time that that had happened 05:04.537 --> 05:06.139 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% or had this happened before 05:06.139 --> 05:07.940 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in other parts of the state or in the country? 05:07.940 --> 05:10.543 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - We, again, and for us to say that 05:10.543 --> 05:12.578 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% would be historically probably inaccurate 05:12.578 --> 05:13.913 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% because we don't really know. 05:13.913 --> 05:15.982 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I will say this, this is the first time that 05:15.982 --> 05:18.384 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% it was nationally publicized. - Right. 05:18.384 --> 05:20.553 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - We believe that, especially in South Carolina, 05:20.553 --> 05:23.056 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% there were many acts of retaliation. 05:23.056 --> 05:26.993 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% There were many acts of civil unrest that went unreported. 05:26.993 --> 05:29.128 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And we know that many things happened 05:29.128 --> 05:31.831 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that never got any publicity. 05:31.831 --> 05:35.134 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We also know that throughout the United States of America 05:35.134 --> 05:37.337 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% during this time period, that students 05:37.337 --> 05:39.439 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and civil rights workers were protesting 05:39.439 --> 05:42.141 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in many different ways, in many different manners. 05:42.141 --> 05:44.110 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% We will tell you this, that this is the first time 05:44.110 --> 05:45.778 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that it got national publicity. 05:45.778 --> 05:48.047 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But can we say that it never happened any place before? 05:48.047 --> 05:49.982 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We cannot historically say that correctly. 05:49.982 --> 05:51.951 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Do we know why this got national publicity? 05:51.951 --> 05:53.553 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, it's largely due to the efforts 05:53.553 --> 05:55.822 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. 05:55.822 --> 05:59.158 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% People such as Diane Nash and a very young John Lewis, 05:59.158 --> 06:01.160 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% who's now the congressman from Georgia. 06:01.160 --> 06:03.930 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% The documentary, in fact, deals with how 06:03.930 --> 06:06.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% they basically went to people like Jet Magazine along 06:06.566 --> 06:09.435 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% with the gentleman in Orangeburg, South Carolina, 06:09.435 --> 06:11.604 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the photographer Cecil Williams. 06:11.604 --> 06:13.106 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Yes. Okay. 06:13.106 --> 06:15.575 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - He fed a live wire of all of this through Jet Magazine, 06:15.575 --> 06:18.611 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and other national sources, so that the national publicity 06:18.611 --> 06:21.280 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that resulted from that focus put Rock Hill 06:21.280 --> 06:24.050 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% on the spotlight for having these young, 06:24.050 --> 06:26.085 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% well-educated college students in jail 06:26.085 --> 06:28.688 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for just basically trying to exercise 06:28.688 --> 06:30.223 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the rights that were already constitutional. 06:30.223 --> 06:32.892 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Yeah. I think it's interesting, Mr. Levy, 06:32.892 --> 06:34.394 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you were talking about the fact that 06:34.394 --> 06:37.430 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a lot of things that happened right here in South Carolina 06:37.430 --> 06:39.265 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% didn't get any kind of publicity, 06:39.265 --> 06:41.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and that there is a thought that, listen, 06:41.033 --> 06:42.335 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% everything went great in South Carolina. 06:42.335 --> 06:43.603 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Right, right. 06:43.603 --> 06:46.172 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - There was no civil rights strife here. 06:46.172 --> 06:47.507 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Everything went really smoothly. 06:47.507 --> 06:48.441 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - Right. - You say that's 06:48.441 --> 06:49.876 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% not necessarily the case. 06:49.876 --> 06:52.512 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - At all. Since the beginning of the creation 06:52.512 --> 06:54.180 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of this settlement called South Carolina, 06:54.180 --> 06:56.783 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the founders of the colony were very smart 06:56.783 --> 07:00.553 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in making sure that they're never publicized unrest, 07:00.553 --> 07:02.188 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% especially with the slaves, all right? 07:02.188 --> 07:03.856 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And so there's a history of that 07:03.856 --> 07:06.058 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because South Carolina, again, is the only colony 07:06.058 --> 07:07.660 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that became a state where the majority 07:07.660 --> 07:09.862 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of the population were African Americans. 07:09.862 --> 07:13.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So they knew for peace reasons, for violence reasons, 07:13.466 --> 07:15.268 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that they could never let the public know 07:15.268 --> 07:17.837 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that they were not in charge of the slave community 07:17.837 --> 07:20.173 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and never wanted the slave community also to know 07:20.173 --> 07:22.875 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that they were in the majority in the state as well. 07:22.875 --> 07:26.078 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So a lot of reprisals, a lot of rebellions were squashed. 07:26.078 --> 07:28.314 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so it would not get publicity leading up all the way 07:28.314 --> 07:31.384 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to the Civil Rights Movement, where historians, 07:31.384 --> 07:33.119 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% especially some South Carolina historians, 07:33.119 --> 07:35.254 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% would paint a picture and would argue that 07:35.254 --> 07:37.023 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the Civil Rights Movement in South Carolina 07:37.023 --> 07:38.691 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% were very peaceful, where you don't see 07:38.691 --> 07:40.092 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the dogs attacking people 07:40.092 --> 07:43.362 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% as you would see in Alabama, Mississippi. 07:43.362 --> 07:45.264 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You don't see the unrest that happened 07:45.264 --> 07:46.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% during the Freedom Riot. 07:46.466 --> 07:47.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So they would make that argument, 07:47.700 --> 07:49.802 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but that argument is very untrue. 07:49.802 --> 07:50.603 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Interesting. 07:51.804 --> 07:54.707 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Let's look at what this perpetuated. 07:56.142 --> 08:00.346 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% What came out of this Jail Nobel situation 08:00.346 --> 08:02.381 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% with the publicity that it got. 08:03.483 --> 08:05.718 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Did that make other things happen? 08:05.718 --> 08:07.753 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, it did because it's also important 08:07.753 --> 08:09.722 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to understand too that, I mentioned 08:09.722 --> 08:11.791 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee 08:11.791 --> 08:14.827 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% were among the main people who publicized this. 08:14.827 --> 08:16.963 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% They came through Rock Hill several months later, 08:16.963 --> 08:20.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as a matter of fact, as part of the Freedom Rides, 08:20.833 --> 08:22.301 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and they were attacked in Rock Hill. 08:22.301 --> 08:25.471 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And recently a man who was involved with that apologized 08:25.471 --> 08:29.675 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to John Lewis for his role in beating these people. 08:29.675 --> 08:31.477 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But the thing to understand about a lot of this 08:31.477 --> 08:34.080 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is that the United States was forced to act, 08:34.080 --> 08:37.350 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because at that time, the Soviet Union was the enemy 08:37.350 --> 08:39.785 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of the United States through the Cold War and sun. 08:39.785 --> 08:42.088 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And they were using the publicity for the sit-in 08:42.088 --> 08:44.991 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to point out the hypocrisy that was happening 08:44.991 --> 08:46.325 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to the United States of America 08:46.325 --> 08:48.628 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% when they were criticizing other nations 08:48.628 --> 08:50.796 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for their violation of human rights. 08:50.796 --> 08:52.965 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And John F. Kennedy, who was then the President, 08:52.965 --> 08:55.001 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% his brother Robert, were so embarrassed 08:55.001 --> 08:57.904 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% by these open comparisons that they were forced to act 08:57.904 --> 09:00.306 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% on this issue in favor of civil rights. 09:00.306 --> 09:01.474 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Yes. - What's very important, 09:01.474 --> 09:02.475 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think if you could gimme a minute 09:02.475 --> 09:04.443 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to trace this historical legacy. 09:04.443 --> 09:05.645 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Sure. 09:05.645 --> 09:09.181 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - The glass ceiling that separated the races 09:09.181 --> 09:11.918 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and created segregation, the United States of America, 09:11.918 --> 09:15.721 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it took little nicks to dismantle. 09:15.721 --> 09:19.759 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% That glass was put up in 1896 with Plessy versus Ferguson, 09:19.759 --> 09:21.494 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% when the United States Supreme Court 09:21.494 --> 09:23.963 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% decided that separate was equal, okay. 09:23.963 --> 09:28.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so that rule, that separate but equal clause 09:28.000 --> 09:29.969 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% created Jim Crow in the South. 09:29.969 --> 09:32.471 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It created the southern apartheid. 09:32.471 --> 09:34.173 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Then, of course, with 1954, 09:34.173 --> 09:36.742 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% with the Brown versus Board of Education, 09:36.742 --> 09:38.611 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you see that the United States Supreme Court said 09:38.611 --> 09:42.448 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that segregation was illegal in public schools. 09:42.448 --> 09:44.617 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so they integrated public schools, 09:44.617 --> 09:46.018 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and public schools only, 09:46.018 --> 09:47.920 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because the federal government contributed funds 09:47.920 --> 09:51.357 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to state public schools, so they had that control. 09:51.357 --> 09:54.627 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Then you see in 1957, just four years later, 09:54.627 --> 09:57.563 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a civil rights bill giving African Americans 09:57.563 --> 10:01.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the right to vote, but it was not enforced. 10:01.133 --> 10:02.635 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% See, a lot of people, it was watered down. 10:02.635 --> 10:04.003 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% But did do two things. 10:04.003 --> 10:08.708 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It created the Department of Civil Rights 10:08.708 --> 10:09.842 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in the Department of Justice 10:09.842 --> 10:12.244 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and created a commission on civil rights. 10:12.244 --> 10:15.414 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So then, three years later, you see the Greensboro sit-ins, 10:15.414 --> 10:19.552 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and a year later, you see what happens in Rock Hill. 10:19.552 --> 10:20.786 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Two years later you see what happens 10:20.786 --> 10:22.188 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in Birmingham with Dr. King. 10:22.188 --> 10:24.490 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so what's happening is the African Americans 10:24.490 --> 10:26.058 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% are just chipping away. Chipping away. 10:26.058 --> 10:27.026 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - [Author] It's on the continuum. 10:27.026 --> 10:28.227 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Yeah, it's on the continuum. 10:28.227 --> 10:31.163 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You can't look at this thing in a vacuum, 10:31.163 --> 10:33.332 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that one day these nine students decide 10:33.332 --> 10:35.668 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to go to McCrory's and sit down. 10:35.668 --> 10:37.236 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You know, history doesn't work that way. 10:37.236 --> 10:39.805 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% There was a process by which we got to that point. 10:39.805 --> 10:41.641 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so this is part of the continuum 10:41.641 --> 10:44.243 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of them just chipping away one piece at a time 10:44.243 --> 10:45.578 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to knock this ceiling down. 10:46.912 --> 10:48.547 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - And it's also important to remember too, 10:48.547 --> 10:50.650 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that prior to the Rock Hill case, 10:50.650 --> 10:53.719 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% they were a number of sit-ins in Charleston, South Carolina. 10:53.719 --> 10:55.388 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% One of them, which involved Harvey Gantt, 10:55.388 --> 10:57.757 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who was eventually the mayor of Charlotte. 10:57.757 --> 10:59.492 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% There was another in Spartanburg, 10:59.492 --> 11:00.826 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% where you had a number of students, 11:00.826 --> 11:03.462 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% including an 11-year-old girl by the name of a 11:03.462 --> 11:06.532 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Carol Moore-Richard, who were chased by a mob 11:06.532 --> 11:09.602 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% after they were forced from the Cress 11:09.602 --> 11:11.237 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in the Woolworths in Spartanburg. 11:11.237 --> 11:13.839 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And there was also a case in Columbia where they had 11:13.839 --> 11:15.508 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the protest of the Cress, where a young man, 11:15.508 --> 11:18.177 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I believe his name was Lenny Hayton, if I recall correctly, 11:18.177 --> 11:20.613 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% was stabbed for protesting in front of the store. 11:20.613 --> 11:22.748 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Let's talk, because you mentioned earlier 11:24.617 --> 11:27.053 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% an area where the Ku Klux claim was really strong. 11:27.053 --> 11:28.220 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - York, South York County. 11:28.220 --> 11:29.488 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - York County. 11:29.488 --> 11:32.658 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Right, right just North of Rock Hill. 11:32.658 --> 11:34.660 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And so when you said it was really strong, 11:34.660 --> 11:36.062 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% what happened in York County. 11:36.062 --> 11:38.998 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - In 1871, you had a mass uprising 11:38.998 --> 11:42.101 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of the Ku Klux Klan that led President Ulysses S Grant 11:42.101 --> 11:46.238 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to call federal troops to put down these horrible instances. 11:46.238 --> 11:48.708 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And when this Klan was brutalizing 11:48.708 --> 11:50.843 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a lot of individuals and so forth, 11:50.843 --> 11:53.646 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a lot of that, as a matter of fact, led the Klan 11:53.646 --> 11:56.682 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% to be outlawed by 1873. 11:56.682 --> 11:59.552 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But one source, Lou Faulkner Williams book 11:59.552 --> 12:02.688 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% on the Ku Klux Klan uprisings of 1871 and 1872, 12:02.688 --> 12:05.791 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% notes that almost the entire white male population 12:05.791 --> 12:09.595 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of York County had joined the Ku Klux Klan at that point. 12:09.595 --> 12:12.398 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Most of these people were ex Confederate soldiers. 12:12.398 --> 12:15.134 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So the Klan was actually outlawed in the United States 12:15.134 --> 12:19.205 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% from 1873 until its rebirth in 1915. 12:19.205 --> 12:21.941 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% However, you had other groups that did 12:21.941 --> 12:24.310 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a lot of Klan type activities, such as the Red Shirts 12:24.310 --> 12:26.212 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and the Knights of the White Chameleon, et cetera. 12:26.212 --> 12:29.115 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So a lot of that plays into Rock Hill's history 12:29.115 --> 12:30.616 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% when it comes to dealing with these issues. 12:30.616 --> 12:31.884 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - Yeah. Go ahead. 12:31.884 --> 12:33.385 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Yeah, we also have to realize, 12:33.385 --> 12:36.655 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% even though York County now, because it buffers Charlotte, 12:36.655 --> 12:38.157 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% it seems so progressive. 12:38.157 --> 12:40.793 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% In this day it was called the Back Country, all right. 12:40.793 --> 12:43.629 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so in the Back Country you could do Backwoods things. 12:43.629 --> 12:45.164 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - [Author] Exactly. 12:45.164 --> 12:47.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - And so one of the gentlemen in the documentary talks about 12:47.500 --> 12:50.202 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that they were scared for their lives in Rocky Hill. 12:50.202 --> 12:53.172 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% That at any moment, if any African American act out a step, 12:53.172 --> 12:55.074 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you could be shot dead straight on the street 12:55.074 --> 12:58.277 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because of the presence of the Ku Klux Klan. 12:58.277 --> 13:00.212 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that's one thing that's not talked about. 13:00.212 --> 13:02.081 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You know, we talk about Pulaski, Tennessee, 13:02.081 --> 13:04.817 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we talk about the KKK down in the deep South, 13:04.817 --> 13:08.420 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but the KKK was strong in South Carolina. 13:08.420 --> 13:13.425 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - There's one gentleman who decided to put up bail 13:14.160 --> 13:15.427 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and to get out of jail. 13:15.427 --> 13:17.530 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think he was on a football scholarship 13:17.530 --> 13:18.898 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% or something like that. 13:21.267 --> 13:24.403 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Do you think he was ostracized then by the other nine? 13:24.403 --> 13:25.638 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - A personal story, when I was at the 13:25.638 --> 13:27.473 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, 13:27.473 --> 13:28.674 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% we were trying to get our own, 13:28.674 --> 13:30.609 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% what's called Black Cultural Center. 13:30.609 --> 13:32.211 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We wanted our own black cultural center 13:32.211 --> 13:33.379 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% a freestanding building, 13:33.379 --> 13:35.381 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and the university would not give it to us. 13:35.381 --> 13:37.516 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And so we marched on the campus 13:37.516 --> 13:38.651 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of the University of North Carolina. 13:38.651 --> 13:40.386 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We took over the administration building, 13:40.386 --> 13:42.288 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% had a sit-in in the administration building, 13:42.288 --> 13:44.023 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% took over the president's office. 13:44.023 --> 13:47.660 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And then the police came and says, you know, 13:47.660 --> 13:50.029 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "you're trespassing, you have to leave now 13:50.029 --> 13:51.463 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or else you're gonna be arrested." 13:51.463 --> 13:53.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% All but 10 of us left. 13:53.666 --> 13:56.135 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But I don't think it says anything different about 13:56.135 --> 13:58.838 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the other 400 of us who decided not to get arrested.. 13:58.838 --> 14:01.707 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% That we were sold out, let's say, 14:01.707 --> 14:03.209 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% because we didn't get arrested. 14:03.209 --> 14:06.078 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You know, we just decided, we were proud of them, 14:06.078 --> 14:08.547 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% we were saluting them, we were clapping for 'em. 14:08.547 --> 14:10.049 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% We bailed them out. 14:10.049 --> 14:13.485 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But at that moment, you know, you have to weigh your life 14:13.485 --> 14:15.221 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and make a decision for you right then. 14:15.221 --> 14:17.022 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "Am I going to jail to make a statement 14:17.022 --> 14:18.924 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or I'm going be staying in college." 14:18.924 --> 14:22.828 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - So I think that gentleman should be respected, 14:22.828 --> 14:24.763 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% even from making it as far as he did. 14:24.763 --> 14:25.998 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Right. - When it came to that, 14:25.998 --> 14:28.734 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because to even just the very act of going 14:28.734 --> 14:30.169 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in that lunch counter and sitting down 14:30.169 --> 14:32.204 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% when they know they could be assaulted. 14:32.204 --> 14:34.240 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And then by principal, they were forced 14:34.240 --> 14:35.541 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to be nonviolent about it. 14:35.541 --> 14:37.409 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, that takes more courage than a lot 14:37.409 --> 14:39.078 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of people who would criticize these individuals I think. 14:39.078 --> 14:40.346 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yeah. 14:40.346 --> 14:43.182 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'm assuming that there were a lot of adults who 14:43.182 --> 14:45.551 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% at that time, were really concerned 14:45.551 --> 14:48.487 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and who actually tried to talk their young people, 14:48.487 --> 14:50.322 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% their children out of participating. 14:50.322 --> 14:51.824 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - Oh, yes. - Right. 14:51.824 --> 14:53.025 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - That was a very frequent occurrence at that time. 14:53.025 --> 14:54.326 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% A lot of people who were involved with that 14:54.326 --> 14:56.061 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% will honestly tell you that that was the case. 14:56.061 --> 14:58.931 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Jesse Jackson's father at one point forbade his son 14:58.931 --> 15:02.601 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to go into a sit-in against Greenville's libraries back 15:02.601 --> 15:05.170 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% in the year 1960. 15:05.170 --> 15:08.641 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - But on the other side, King knew when he did Project C 15:08.641 --> 15:10.910 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in Birmingham, he was criticized 15:10.910 --> 15:13.946 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% for encouraging the kids and asking the parents 15:13.946 --> 15:16.215 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to allow their kids to lead the marches. 15:16.215 --> 15:19.485 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And the reason was, I mean, people were really upset 15:19.485 --> 15:21.787 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% with him because the dogs and the water hose started 15:21.787 --> 15:23.989 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% on the kids but it was strategic. 15:23.989 --> 15:25.557 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Just like our brothers in Rock Hill, 15:25.557 --> 15:28.227 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% they did stuff strategically, not just to do it. 15:28.227 --> 15:31.330 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% The strategy was that King knew that to change the South, 15:31.330 --> 15:33.599 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% he had to change America's conscious. 15:33.599 --> 15:35.334 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So he want America to see that 15:35.334 --> 15:39.305 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in the south they will sick dogs on little children. 15:39.305 --> 15:41.006 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Now, we talked a little earlier too, 15:41.006 --> 15:46.011 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% about the fact that Rock Hill was severely segregated 15:47.379 --> 15:48.747 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% during this period of time, and that black people 15:48.747 --> 15:51.150 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% were really, really afraid for their lives. 15:51.150 --> 15:52.651 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Correct. 15:52.651 --> 15:56.522 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Do you think that young people really were the ones 15:56.522 --> 15:59.725 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that had the vision of the foresight to see, like, 15:59.725 --> 16:01.026 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% "we can change this?" 16:01.026 --> 16:03.362 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, by and large, I would say that they did. 16:03.362 --> 16:06.365 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Because what often happens is that as you grow up 16:06.365 --> 16:09.001 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in the system and as you grow older, 16:09.001 --> 16:11.303 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% time has a way of making people adapt 16:11.303 --> 16:13.772 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to certain ways of thinking and then they become, 16:13.772 --> 16:16.575 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as they get older, hardened and resistant to change. 16:16.575 --> 16:19.178 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Young people are taught at a very early age 16:19.178 --> 16:20.980 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that if you do the right things, 16:20.980 --> 16:22.548 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% everything will be fair and just to you. 16:22.548 --> 16:24.850 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And when they see that, they tend to react 16:24.850 --> 16:27.686 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in a harsher way than most adults who had gotten accustomed 16:27.686 --> 16:29.321 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to the system would react. 16:29.321 --> 16:31.790 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So since they're still young and still filled 16:31.790 --> 16:35.194 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% with all that idealism, it would only be natural being 16:35.194 --> 16:37.396 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that they're still young enough to believe 16:37.396 --> 16:38.998 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in the fairness and justice of it all, 16:38.998 --> 16:40.599 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that they would go out and do this. 16:40.599 --> 16:43.068 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - I think also the historians do this all the time, 16:43.068 --> 16:45.571 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% on the counter argument is I also believe 16:45.571 --> 16:48.440 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that the younger you are, the more risk you will take. 16:48.440 --> 16:51.510 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Okay, and so there's a difference between being 16:51.510 --> 16:54.713 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a 60 year old man who's the foreman of a white-owned company 16:54.713 --> 16:57.149 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and a 19 year old college student. 16:57.149 --> 16:59.418 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Whether that guy wants to risk his job, 16:59.418 --> 17:01.787 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% risk his livelihood, risk his position in society. 17:01.787 --> 17:03.655 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And I think he has the right to say, you know, 17:03.655 --> 17:04.890 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Hey, I'm gonna go to the meeting. 17:04.890 --> 17:06.125 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'm gonna probably give some money, 17:06.125 --> 17:07.359 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but I'm not gonna be out on the street 17:07.359 --> 17:08.594 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because I know if they see me out 17:08.594 --> 17:10.863 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in the street marching, I'm gonna lose my job, 17:10.863 --> 17:14.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% lose my house, and my family's gonna have some problems. 17:14.566 --> 17:17.636 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Compared to the 19 year old who's just a college student, 17:17.636 --> 17:20.572 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you know, who doesn't have those responsibilities, 17:20.572 --> 17:21.807 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and doesn't have all this, you know, 17:21.807 --> 17:23.609 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% he can take more risks and do more things. 17:23.609 --> 17:26.412 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that's why SNCC and CORE were so important 17:26.412 --> 17:29.681 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because the young community mobilized. 17:29.681 --> 17:31.784 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Hey, some would argue the reason 17:31.784 --> 17:33.519 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% why we have our President now, 17:33.519 --> 17:37.790 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that the young community of the United States of America. 17:37.790 --> 17:39.358 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% You know, racism is taught. 17:39.358 --> 17:40.592 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Now, one of the great things 17:40.592 --> 17:42.194 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is the reason why we don't have racism 17:42.194 --> 17:43.796 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% like we used to have racism is 17:43.796 --> 17:46.498 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because luckily there are persons who are not teaching 17:46.498 --> 17:48.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% their children to be racist. 17:48.333 --> 17:51.036 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Those activities, that racist thought was taught, 17:51.036 --> 17:54.139 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% it was learned, it was a learned behavior, it's not innate. 17:54.139 --> 17:55.808 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so this generation is different. 17:55.808 --> 17:57.142 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They have not been taught that there's 17:57.142 --> 17:58.877 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a difference between being black and white 17:58.877 --> 18:02.147 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% or that black persons or Hispanic persons are less than. 18:02.147 --> 18:03.849 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So they don't have that same consciousness. 18:03.849 --> 18:07.453 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so that's why the country mobilized a couple years ago 18:07.453 --> 18:09.455 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and elected an African American president. 18:09.455 --> 18:13.459 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I do wonder why, going back to the Jail Nobel, 18:14.693 --> 18:16.361 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% what is the significance, you think, 18:16.361 --> 18:19.698 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% have you even thought about this, of the lunch counters? 18:19.698 --> 18:22.301 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Why the sit-ins at the lunch counters, 18:22.301 --> 18:24.870 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the Woolworths, the Cress', McCrory's? 18:24.870 --> 18:29.875 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Well, basically the idea was that you could really 18:31.043 --> 18:33.846 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% not logically find an explanation for the idea 18:33.846 --> 18:36.815 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that an individual was able to go into a store, 18:36.815 --> 18:39.284 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% pay for the various items in that store, 18:39.284 --> 18:43.088 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but not be allowed to sit down and eat, even though, 18:43.088 --> 18:47.092 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% this individual has patronize the store in other ways. 18:47.092 --> 18:48.594 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And what these people wanted to do was 18:48.594 --> 18:52.331 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to point out the open injustice of something like that 18:52.331 --> 18:53.899 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to the nation and to the world. 18:53.899 --> 18:56.935 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Because while you could say that you may not want 18:56.935 --> 18:59.671 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a person in your household or your neighborhood 18:59.671 --> 19:01.874 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% due to personal choice, the fact you live there. 19:01.874 --> 19:04.676 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% The idea that you have a public business 19:04.676 --> 19:07.513 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that's able to serve individuals in every other way 19:07.513 --> 19:12.518 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but the lunch counter, it would take a very advanced person 19:13.919 --> 19:15.487 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of theory to try to make sense out of something like that 19:15.487 --> 19:17.356 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to people who didn't grow up under that system. 19:17.356 --> 19:19.291 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So once you hold that up under the light 19:19.291 --> 19:21.860 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of people who don't live like this, 19:21.860 --> 19:23.395 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% they will more than likely say, 19:23.395 --> 19:24.696 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "Hey, something is wrong with this." 19:24.696 --> 19:26.265 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Because it's often like the telephone pole 19:26.265 --> 19:27.766 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% in front of your house. 19:27.766 --> 19:29.735 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You see it so often that you don't think about it anymore. 19:29.735 --> 19:31.336 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that you accept it as a part of reality. 19:31.336 --> 19:33.438 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Well it takes a person on the outside 19:33.438 --> 19:34.973 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% to look at that and say, 19:34.973 --> 19:36.208 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% "Hey, there's something in front of your house, see?" 19:36.208 --> 19:37.543 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So that was the idea behind this. 19:37.543 --> 19:39.244 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Yeah. And I know a lot of times too, 19:39.244 --> 19:43.782 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the police who went in to arrest these young people, 19:45.150 --> 19:49.688 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% what do you think, the thinking process for these police, 19:49.688 --> 19:51.123 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% people that you said may have been members 19:51.123 --> 19:52.057 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% of the Ku Klux Klan? 19:52.057 --> 19:53.559 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - Well, two things. 19:53.559 --> 19:56.695 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Number one, there was a joy in beating African Americans. 19:56.695 --> 19:58.664 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They got joy out of that, all right? 19:58.664 --> 20:01.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But second of all, they were making examples 20:01.200 --> 20:04.169 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% out of these men to prevent other African Americans 20:04.169 --> 20:05.470 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% from bucking the system. 20:05.470 --> 20:08.040 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And most plantations and most endurance slavery, 20:08.040 --> 20:09.274 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% when a person was whipped, 20:09.274 --> 20:10.776 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% it was a public whipping where they would bring 20:10.776 --> 20:13.345 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the entire plantation together, string someone 20:13.345 --> 20:14.580 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% to a tree and say, 20:14.580 --> 20:16.848 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "if you do this, try to run away, break a hoe, 20:16.848 --> 20:19.051 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% steal a chicken, this is what would happen to you." 20:19.051 --> 20:21.687 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And then in those cases, a lot of times they would even have 20:21.687 --> 20:23.388 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% an African American, you know, 20:23.388 --> 20:26.358 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% one of their own slaves whip the person. 20:26.358 --> 20:30.662 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so they were creating imagery in the minds 20:30.662 --> 20:32.664 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of the African-American populace. 20:32.664 --> 20:34.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Likewise, with these sit-ins, I mean, 20:34.233 --> 20:36.768 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% they were brutalized, hot coffee was poured on them, 20:36.768 --> 20:38.470 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% mayonnaise, mustard, ketchup were thrown on 'em. 20:38.470 --> 20:40.706 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They were drug from the chairs outside. 20:40.706 --> 20:41.907 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You know, they were made examples of, 20:41.907 --> 20:44.243 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% it was spectator sport, you know, 20:44.243 --> 20:47.012 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to make them into embarrassing to show the community, 20:47.012 --> 20:48.914 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% especially the African American community 20:48.914 --> 20:51.083 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that here are the rules and here are the regulations, 20:51.083 --> 20:52.884 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% here are the lines which you stay in. 20:52.884 --> 20:55.120 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% If you get outta the line, this is what will happen to you. 20:55.120 --> 20:56.788 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - But it's also important to mention too, 20:56.788 --> 20:59.691 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that usually in those days, it was not uncommon 20:59.691 --> 21:01.126 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to have people on the police force 21:01.126 --> 21:03.695 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that were literally illiterate and poorly educated. 21:03.695 --> 21:06.765 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You see, what would happen was, even going back to slavery 21:06.765 --> 21:09.434 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and even into the system that we're discussing today, 21:09.434 --> 21:13.005 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the white power structure would often use 21:13.005 --> 21:16.041 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the poorest and least educated members 21:16.041 --> 21:17.776 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of the white community as shock troops 21:17.776 --> 21:19.177 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% for this type of thing. 21:19.177 --> 21:23.615 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Because these individuals personal security 21:24.750 --> 21:26.184 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% was based on the idea that we may be 21:26.184 --> 21:28.854 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% at the bottom of our society, but there are this group 21:28.854 --> 21:31.523 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of people who are socially beneath us 21:31.523 --> 21:33.125 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in order to maintain their position. 21:33.125 --> 21:36.361 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% They tended to act more brutally toward these individuals 21:36.361 --> 21:39.631 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% than say the governor or a senator or a mayor. 21:39.631 --> 21:42.701 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So essentially, individuals like this were used as 21:42.701 --> 21:45.170 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% sort of shock troops as a means of dividing and conquer 21:45.170 --> 21:46.872 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the poor and white, black communities 21:46.872 --> 21:48.173 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% so both will be exploited. 21:48.173 --> 21:49.875 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - And it's still going on today. 21:49.875 --> 21:53.779 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You know, even in some poor Caucasian communities, 21:53.779 --> 21:55.514 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% at least we're not African American.. 21:55.514 --> 21:57.582 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so what the planner class did 21:57.582 --> 22:00.118 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and what the white power structure did was say, 22:00.118 --> 22:02.788 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% "you can be part of us. You're not really going to be us, 22:02.788 --> 22:06.258 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but you going to help us keep the Negro in his place. 22:06.258 --> 22:09.995 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So even though you poor and don't have even have shoes like 22:09.995 --> 22:12.164 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they do, at least you're not them. 22:12.164 --> 22:14.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So we are gonna make you kind of part of the club, 22:14.366 --> 22:16.635 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but you're gonna do our bidding for us. 22:16.635 --> 22:18.537 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% We are gonna stay the elite 22:18.537 --> 22:20.372 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and you're still gonna be the poor white, 22:20.372 --> 22:21.606 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% but we are gonna work together 22:21.606 --> 22:22.874 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to keep the Negros in their place." 22:22.874 --> 22:24.710 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And that divide and conquer strategy 22:24.710 --> 22:26.578 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is the prime reason behind racism 22:26.578 --> 22:27.946 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in the southern United States. 22:27.946 --> 22:28.980 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Absolutely. 22:28.980 --> 22:31.783 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - I know in the documentary, 22:31.783 --> 22:34.886 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% they talk about the young men, well the older men now, 22:34.886 --> 22:37.055 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they talk about the fact that they actually had 22:37.055 --> 22:38.924 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% to work on chain gangs. 22:38.924 --> 22:43.028 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% What was the effect of a chain gang? 22:43.028 --> 22:44.262 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Brutal work. 22:44.262 --> 22:46.398 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I mean, it was likened to slavery. 22:46.398 --> 22:47.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It's the plantation system. 22:47.933 --> 22:50.102 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Most of us in the African American community have 22:50.102 --> 22:51.837 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% watched the movie, Life. 22:51.837 --> 22:56.108 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% It's a comedy with Martin Lawrence and the late Bernie Mac. 22:57.309 --> 22:58.276 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And it's about, I don't know what state it is, 22:58.276 --> 22:59.444 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% but it's about African American- 22:59.444 --> 23:00.545 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - [Author] Mississippi - Mississippi. 23:00.545 --> 23:02.981 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% worked in a segregated chain gang. 23:02.981 --> 23:05.083 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And what they did was bus rocks 23:05.083 --> 23:07.386 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and dig ditches all day long. 23:07.386 --> 23:09.287 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And there's nothing more likened to slavery 23:09.287 --> 23:10.522 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% than working in the chain gang. 23:10.522 --> 23:12.657 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - And the idea behind that too was to form 23:12.657 --> 23:15.827 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a permanent class of cheap labor for the states. 23:15.827 --> 23:17.295 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And in fact, that movie even deals 23:17.295 --> 23:19.064 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% with the fact of that matter. 23:19.064 --> 23:20.465 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Yeah. 23:20.465 --> 23:21.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But I know in the documentary, the guy said, 23:21.733 --> 23:24.870 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% "we'd move dirt from one spot to the other spot, 23:24.870 --> 23:26.972 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and then move it back to the same spot all over again." 23:26.972 --> 23:28.306 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Right. Well see, the thing was 23:28.306 --> 23:30.342 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that a person who was over chain gang, 23:30.342 --> 23:33.011 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% this is an overseer on the plantation, 23:33.011 --> 23:34.713 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they would have absolute control over you. 23:34.713 --> 23:37.516 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So you're taking a person who is the most oppressed 23:37.516 --> 23:39.551 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and least respected member of his society 23:39.551 --> 23:41.920 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and put an individual with those type of complexes 23:41.920 --> 23:44.856 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% over other people, that type of abuse will happen. 23:44.856 --> 23:46.792 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Because he's taking out his frustration 23:46.792 --> 23:48.960 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% on these individuals he's in control over. 23:48.960 --> 23:51.396 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% - Is there any possibility or any chance 23:51.396 --> 23:54.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that you think incidences like this, 23:54.733 --> 23:56.935 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a history like this, will actually be put 23:56.935 --> 23:58.603 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% into our history books for our young people? 23:58.603 --> 24:00.272 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well that's why we're here because see, 24:00.272 --> 24:02.240 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% while these people are still alive, 24:02.240 --> 24:05.310 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% we can document those things because in those days, 24:05.310 --> 24:07.779 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of course these things were not reported 24:07.779 --> 24:10.482 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% because a lot of times the media was owned 24:10.482 --> 24:13.151 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% by a lot of the respectable families of these areas. 24:13.151 --> 24:14.920 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And on a chamber of commerce type level, 24:14.920 --> 24:16.822 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% they didn't wanna put out bad publicity 24:16.822 --> 24:19.090 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of the areas in which they live. 24:19.090 --> 24:21.092 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% However, there are people who are still alive 24:21.092 --> 24:22.761 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that we can talk to and put this out. 24:22.761 --> 24:24.996 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And individuals like ourselves who go out 24:24.996 --> 24:28.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and study these things and bring them out before the public 24:28.433 --> 24:29.835 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in order to make it well known, 24:29.835 --> 24:32.337 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because there are thousands of stories like this 24:32.337 --> 24:34.239 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that are not known that we need to do this with. 24:34.239 --> 24:36.107 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I have to explain to my students all the time, 24:36.107 --> 24:37.676 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% there's more to history than what you see 24:37.676 --> 24:38.710 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% in that classroom textbook. 24:38.710 --> 24:40.145 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - Yeah, absolutely. 24:40.145 --> 24:44.616 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% What do you think, this tweaking of that sit-in situation, 24:45.784 --> 24:47.419 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% what do you think it really meant 24:47.419 --> 24:49.287 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% from a historical perspective really quickly? 24:49.287 --> 24:50.922 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I think it meant no turning back. 24:50.922 --> 24:54.726 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I think the system changed how they were operating 24:54.726 --> 24:58.230 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to the fact that we are willing to risk our bodies 24:58.230 --> 25:02.067 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and our lives and even our rights that we already have 25:02.067 --> 25:04.503 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% for full civil rights. 25:04.503 --> 25:05.770 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think that's what made it so important. 25:05.770 --> 25:07.973 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It was a change in the strategy. 25:07.973 --> 25:09.407 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - I think it was important because 25:09.407 --> 25:12.143 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% it showed young people across the nation the effect 25:12.143 --> 25:14.212 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of which other young people were willing to go 25:14.212 --> 25:17.082 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in order to make society better than it was then. 25:17.082 --> 25:19.150 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And it encouraged a lot of those young people 25:19.150 --> 25:21.987 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to help work it to make the society what it is today. 25:21.987 --> 25:23.522 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so if young people today were 25:23.522 --> 25:25.690 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to see something like this, maybe it would inspire them 25:25.690 --> 25:27.392 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to make the further changes that are needed 25:27.392 --> 25:28.894 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to make the society where it should be. 25:28.894 --> 25:30.262 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Okay guys, thank you so much. 25:30.262 --> 25:31.763 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Always great talking with you. 25:31.763 --> 25:33.198 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Always bring great insight to the show. 25:33.198 --> 25:34.699 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% We appreciate you today. 25:34.699 --> 25:38.169 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And watch for the new Carolina Stories Documentary, 25:38.169 --> 25:42.307 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Jail Nobel, on ETV Thursday, February 3rd at nine o'clock 25:42.307 --> 25:46.111 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and Sunday, February 6th at 4:00 PM. 25:46.111 --> 25:48.079 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And we really wanna hear from you. 25:48.079 --> 25:50.415 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Our mailing address is Connections, SCETV, 25:50.415 --> 25:55.053 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Post Office Box 11000, Columbia, South Carolina 29211. 25:55.053 --> 25:57.923 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Our email address is connections@scetv.org. 25:57.923 --> 26:01.660 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And for more information about how you can participate, 26:01.660 --> 26:06.665 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% go to the connections website at www.scetv.org/connections. 26:07.399 --> 26:08.633 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Well, that's our show. 26:08.633 --> 26:09.701 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Thank you so much for joining us. 26:09.701 --> 26:11.503 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Remember, stay connected. 26:11.503 --> 26:13.438 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'm P.A. Bennett and I'll see you next time 26:13.438 --> 26:15.173 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% right here on Connections. 26:16.541 --> 26:19.377 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (energetic music)