1 00:00:07,173 --> 00:00:10,010 (energetic music) 2 00:00:23,056 --> 00:00:27,994 - [Narrator] On the icy cold morning of January 31st, 1961, 3 00:00:27,994 --> 00:00:30,363 10 students started the mile-long walk 4 00:00:30,363 --> 00:00:32,599 from Friendship Junior College 5 00:00:32,599 --> 00:00:35,935 to McCrory's Five & Dime Store on Main Street 6 00:00:35,935 --> 00:00:37,771 in Rock Hill, South Carolina. 7 00:00:38,972 --> 00:00:41,708 Nervous yet prepared for what was to come, 8 00:00:41,708 --> 00:00:43,843 the young men made their way through the crowd 9 00:00:43,843 --> 00:00:46,179 to the lunch counter while patrons 10 00:00:46,179 --> 00:00:48,615 and police officers watched. 11 00:00:48,615 --> 00:00:51,551 - I had this nervous issue in my stomach, 12 00:00:51,551 --> 00:00:53,386 and I know it came from fear. 13 00:00:53,386 --> 00:00:56,723 You know, they call it butterflies, but I call it fear. 14 00:00:56,723 --> 00:00:58,591 - [Narrator] The young men climbed onto the stools 15 00:00:58,591 --> 00:01:01,494 at the counter and awaited service. 16 00:01:01,494 --> 00:01:04,497 Within seconds, police officers yanked each 17 00:01:04,497 --> 00:01:06,299 of them from their seats as 18 00:01:06,299 --> 00:01:09,169 the surrounding crowd yelled and taunted them. 19 00:01:09,169 --> 00:01:12,338 - They grabbed me up by the seat of my pants 20 00:01:12,338 --> 00:01:17,043 and my shoulder, and carry me out the back door. 21 00:01:17,043 --> 00:01:19,212 - [Narrator] Officers dragged the students across the street 22 00:01:19,212 --> 00:01:22,315 to the nearby police station where they were booked 23 00:01:22,315 --> 00:01:25,151 and charged with trespassing and breach of peace. 24 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,188 The students were thrown in jail and sentenced 25 00:01:28,188 --> 00:01:32,058 to 30 days of hard labor on the York County chain gag. 26 00:01:33,526 --> 00:01:36,729 What followed would spark a movement reaching far beyond 27 00:01:36,729 --> 00:01:40,033 the city of Rock Hill and the state of South Carolina, 28 00:01:40,033 --> 00:01:43,002 and set into motion a new strategy 29 00:01:43,002 --> 00:01:44,838 in the growing civil rights movement. 30 00:01:46,372 --> 00:01:49,109 (dramatic music) 31 00:01:57,283 --> 00:01:59,986 - And on set with us to give an historical perspective, 32 00:01:59,986 --> 00:02:02,388 are author and historian, Damon Fordham 33 00:02:02,388 --> 00:02:06,025 and historian, businessman and pastor Chris Levy Johnson. 34 00:02:06,025 --> 00:02:07,594 Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us today. 35 00:02:07,594 --> 00:02:09,028 We appreciate your time. 36 00:02:09,028 --> 00:02:09,896 - You're welcome. 37 00:02:11,397 --> 00:02:13,766 - This Jail Nobel documentary, 38 00:02:13,766 --> 00:02:17,770 it's looking at the Friendship Nine, 39 00:02:17,770 --> 00:02:21,441 which originally were the Friendship 10, if you will. 40 00:02:21,441 --> 00:02:22,876 - Right. - But the Friendship nine, 41 00:02:22,876 --> 00:02:27,580 the students, 1961, the sit-ins, 42 00:02:27,580 --> 00:02:30,383 they went to jail but refused to pay bail. 43 00:02:32,318 --> 00:02:37,323 In your opinion, Reverend Levy, what's the significance 44 00:02:38,658 --> 00:02:42,095 of those students deciding not to pay bail? 45 00:02:42,095 --> 00:02:44,464 - I think it's very significant because beforehand 46 00:02:44,464 --> 00:02:47,800 with all the arrests, the NAACP, SNCC, CORE, 47 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,271 some organization, some civil rights organization 48 00:02:51,271 --> 00:02:52,906 had pooled money together, 49 00:02:52,906 --> 00:02:54,407 brought the neighborhoods together, 50 00:02:54,407 --> 00:02:56,843 brought the community together to spend their own money, 51 00:02:56,843 --> 00:03:00,079 hardworking, hard-earned money that they needed, I'm sure, 52 00:03:00,079 --> 00:03:02,615 for other things to bail people out of jail. 53 00:03:02,615 --> 00:03:05,785 And so these young men decided that instead of, 54 00:03:05,785 --> 00:03:08,054 I wanna say wasted, but not really wasted, 55 00:03:08,054 --> 00:03:11,891 because people start to have to sacrifice their own money. 56 00:03:11,891 --> 00:03:13,593 They would not take any bail money, 57 00:03:13,593 --> 00:03:15,161 and they would serve their time, 58 00:03:15,161 --> 00:03:18,298 and they put, therefore, the onus on the white community 59 00:03:18,298 --> 00:03:20,400 to pay for their jail time, 60 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:21,401 to pay for their food, 61 00:03:21,401 --> 00:03:22,602 pay for the water, 62 00:03:22,602 --> 00:03:27,006 pay using city and I guess municipal dollars 63 00:03:27,006 --> 00:03:28,875 to pay for them to stay in jail. 64 00:03:28,875 --> 00:03:30,376 So it did two things. 65 00:03:30,376 --> 00:03:33,846 Number one, it of course it saved the organizations money, 66 00:03:33,846 --> 00:03:38,718 but it also made the white community pay for the movement. 67 00:03:38,718 --> 00:03:43,723 - So, Damon, looking at that same statement, 68 00:03:45,158 --> 00:03:47,327 what difference did it make that they did not pay bail 69 00:03:47,327 --> 00:03:48,695 after they went to jail? 70 00:03:49,862 --> 00:03:53,733 How did that enhance what they were doing. 71 00:03:53,733 --> 00:03:55,902 - On a number of levels because see, 72 00:03:55,902 --> 00:03:58,004 there's precedent to this. 73 00:03:58,004 --> 00:04:01,741 Back in 1958 when Dr. King was arrested back 74 00:04:01,741 --> 00:04:06,479 in Montgomery, Alabama, where when they realized 75 00:04:06,479 --> 00:04:08,715 there was an unjust arrest, 76 00:04:08,715 --> 00:04:11,150 there was an unknown member of the city fathers 77 00:04:11,150 --> 00:04:14,254 that paid Dr. King's way out because they realized 78 00:04:14,254 --> 00:04:16,956 that to have him in jail would hurt their cause. 79 00:04:16,956 --> 00:04:19,626 So people like Dub Massey and Thomas Gaither 80 00:04:19,626 --> 00:04:21,661 and the students who were involved with this case, 81 00:04:21,661 --> 00:04:24,297 these young men studied such things. 82 00:04:24,297 --> 00:04:27,667 And so they understood that if they didn't pay the bail, 83 00:04:27,667 --> 00:04:31,237 number one, it would galvanize the attention 84 00:04:31,237 --> 00:04:33,473 of the nation because you had a number of other citizens 85 00:04:33,473 --> 00:04:35,642 in South Carolina prior to this point. 86 00:04:35,642 --> 00:04:38,845 Plus, it would in fact show how committed these men were 87 00:04:38,845 --> 00:04:43,016 to it, and with the Congress of Racial Equality 88 00:04:43,016 --> 00:04:45,318 and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee 89 00:04:45,318 --> 00:04:47,954 on a national level rallying to their cause, 90 00:04:47,954 --> 00:04:50,723 that would bring further attention to this cause. 91 00:04:50,723 --> 00:04:52,725 So it wouldn't fade in the headlines because of all these 92 00:04:52,725 --> 00:04:54,560 other things that were going on at the time. 93 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,131 - Looking at this sit-in situation 94 00:04:58,131 --> 00:05:01,200 where these young people refused to pay bail, 95 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,537 was this the first time that that had happened 96 00:05:04,537 --> 00:05:06,139 or had this happened before 97 00:05:06,139 --> 00:05:07,940 in other parts of the state or in the country? 98 00:05:07,940 --> 00:05:10,543 - We, again, and for us to say that 99 00:05:10,543 --> 00:05:12,578 would be historically probably inaccurate 100 00:05:12,578 --> 00:05:13,913 because we don't really know. 101 00:05:13,913 --> 00:05:15,982 I will say this, this is the first time that 102 00:05:15,982 --> 00:05:18,384 it was nationally publicized. - Right. 103 00:05:18,384 --> 00:05:20,553 - We believe that, especially in South Carolina, 104 00:05:20,553 --> 00:05:23,056 there were many acts of retaliation. 105 00:05:23,056 --> 00:05:26,993 There were many acts of civil unrest that went unreported. 106 00:05:26,993 --> 00:05:29,128 And we know that many things happened 107 00:05:29,128 --> 00:05:31,831 that never got any publicity. 108 00:05:31,831 --> 00:05:35,134 We also know that throughout the United States of America 109 00:05:35,134 --> 00:05:37,337 during this time period, that students 110 00:05:37,337 --> 00:05:39,439 and civil rights workers were protesting 111 00:05:39,439 --> 00:05:42,141 in many different ways, in many different manners. 112 00:05:42,141 --> 00:05:44,110 We will tell you this, that this is the first time 113 00:05:44,110 --> 00:05:45,778 that it got national publicity. 114 00:05:45,778 --> 00:05:48,047 But can we say that it never happened any place before? 115 00:05:48,047 --> 00:05:49,982 We cannot historically say that correctly. 116 00:05:49,982 --> 00:05:51,951 - Do we know why this got national publicity? 117 00:05:51,951 --> 00:05:53,553 - Well, it's largely due to the efforts 118 00:05:53,553 --> 00:05:55,822 of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. 119 00:05:55,822 --> 00:05:59,158 People such as Diane Nash and a very young John Lewis, 120 00:05:59,158 --> 00:06:01,160 who's now the congressman from Georgia. 121 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,930 The documentary, in fact, deals with how 122 00:06:03,930 --> 00:06:06,566 they basically went to people like Jet Magazine along 123 00:06:06,566 --> 00:06:09,435 with the gentleman in Orangeburg, South Carolina, 124 00:06:09,435 --> 00:06:11,604 the photographer Cecil Williams. 125 00:06:11,604 --> 00:06:13,106 - Yes. Okay. 126 00:06:13,106 --> 00:06:15,575 - He fed a live wire of all of this through Jet Magazine, 127 00:06:15,575 --> 00:06:18,611 and other national sources, so that the national publicity 128 00:06:18,611 --> 00:06:21,280 that resulted from that focus put Rock Hill 129 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:24,050 on the spotlight for having these young, 130 00:06:24,050 --> 00:06:26,085 well-educated college students in jail 131 00:06:26,085 --> 00:06:28,688 for just basically trying to exercise 132 00:06:28,688 --> 00:06:30,223 the rights that were already constitutional. 133 00:06:30,223 --> 00:06:32,892 - Yeah. I think it's interesting, Mr. Levy, 134 00:06:32,892 --> 00:06:34,394 you were talking about the fact that 135 00:06:34,394 --> 00:06:37,430 a lot of things that happened right here in South Carolina 136 00:06:37,430 --> 00:06:39,265 didn't get any kind of publicity, 137 00:06:39,265 --> 00:06:41,033 and that there is a thought that, listen, 138 00:06:41,033 --> 00:06:42,335 everything went great in South Carolina. 139 00:06:42,335 --> 00:06:43,603 - Right, right. 140 00:06:43,603 --> 00:06:46,172 - There was no civil rights strife here. 141 00:06:46,172 --> 00:06:47,507 Everything went really smoothly. 142 00:06:47,507 --> 00:06:48,441 - Right. - You say that's 143 00:06:48,441 --> 00:06:49,876 not necessarily the case. 144 00:06:49,876 --> 00:06:52,512 - At all. Since the beginning of the creation 145 00:06:52,512 --> 00:06:54,180 of this settlement called South Carolina, 146 00:06:54,180 --> 00:06:56,783 the founders of the colony were very smart 147 00:06:56,783 --> 00:07:00,553 in making sure that they're never publicized unrest, 148 00:07:00,553 --> 00:07:02,188 especially with the slaves, all right? 149 00:07:02,188 --> 00:07:03,856 And so there's a history of that 150 00:07:03,856 --> 00:07:06,058 because South Carolina, again, is the only colony 151 00:07:06,058 --> 00:07:07,660 that became a state where the majority 152 00:07:07,660 --> 00:07:09,862 of the population were African Americans. 153 00:07:09,862 --> 00:07:13,466 So they knew for peace reasons, for violence reasons, 154 00:07:13,466 --> 00:07:15,268 that they could never let the public know 155 00:07:15,268 --> 00:07:17,837 that they were not in charge of the slave community 156 00:07:17,837 --> 00:07:20,173 and never wanted the slave community also to know 157 00:07:20,173 --> 00:07:22,875 that they were in the majority in the state as well. 158 00:07:22,875 --> 00:07:26,078 So a lot of reprisals, a lot of rebellions were squashed. 159 00:07:26,078 --> 00:07:28,314 And so it would not get publicity leading up all the way 160 00:07:28,314 --> 00:07:31,384 to the Civil Rights Movement, where historians, 161 00:07:31,384 --> 00:07:33,119 especially some South Carolina historians, 162 00:07:33,119 --> 00:07:35,254 would paint a picture and would argue that 163 00:07:35,254 --> 00:07:37,023 the Civil Rights Movement in South Carolina 164 00:07:37,023 --> 00:07:38,691 were very peaceful, where you don't see 165 00:07:38,691 --> 00:07:40,092 the dogs attacking people 166 00:07:40,092 --> 00:07:43,362 as you would see in Alabama, Mississippi. 167 00:07:43,362 --> 00:07:45,264 You don't see the unrest that happened 168 00:07:45,264 --> 00:07:46,466 during the Freedom Riot. 169 00:07:46,466 --> 00:07:47,700 So they would make that argument, 170 00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:49,802 but that argument is very untrue. 171 00:07:49,802 --> 00:07:50,603 - Interesting. 172 00:07:51,804 --> 00:07:54,707 Let's look at what this perpetuated. 173 00:07:56,142 --> 00:08:00,346 What came out of this Jail Nobel situation 174 00:08:00,346 --> 00:08:02,381 with the publicity that it got. 175 00:08:03,483 --> 00:08:05,718 Did that make other things happen? 176 00:08:05,718 --> 00:08:07,753 - Well, it did because it's also important 177 00:08:07,753 --> 00:08:09,722 to understand too that, I mentioned 178 00:08:09,722 --> 00:08:11,791 that the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee 179 00:08:11,791 --> 00:08:14,827 were among the main people who publicized this. 180 00:08:14,827 --> 00:08:16,963 They came through Rock Hill several months later, 181 00:08:16,963 --> 00:08:20,833 as a matter of fact, as part of the Freedom Rides, 182 00:08:20,833 --> 00:08:22,301 and they were attacked in Rock Hill. 183 00:08:22,301 --> 00:08:25,471 And recently a man who was involved with that apologized 184 00:08:25,471 --> 00:08:29,675 to John Lewis for his role in beating these people. 185 00:08:29,675 --> 00:08:31,477 But the thing to understand about a lot of this 186 00:08:31,477 --> 00:08:34,080 is that the United States was forced to act, 187 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,350 because at that time, the Soviet Union was the enemy 188 00:08:37,350 --> 00:08:39,785 of the United States through the Cold War and sun. 189 00:08:39,785 --> 00:08:42,088 And they were using the publicity for the sit-in 190 00:08:42,088 --> 00:08:44,991 to point out the hypocrisy that was happening 191 00:08:44,991 --> 00:08:46,325 to the United States of America 192 00:08:46,325 --> 00:08:48,628 when they were criticizing other nations 193 00:08:48,628 --> 00:08:50,796 for their violation of human rights. 194 00:08:50,796 --> 00:08:52,965 And John F. Kennedy, who was then the President, 195 00:08:52,965 --> 00:08:55,001 his brother Robert, were so embarrassed 196 00:08:55,001 --> 00:08:57,904 by these open comparisons that they were forced to act 197 00:08:57,904 --> 00:09:00,306 on this issue in favor of civil rights. 198 00:09:00,306 --> 00:09:01,474 - Yes. - What's very important, 199 00:09:01,474 --> 00:09:02,475 I think if you could gimme a minute 200 00:09:02,475 --> 00:09:04,443 to trace this historical legacy. 201 00:09:04,443 --> 00:09:05,645 - Sure. 202 00:09:05,645 --> 00:09:09,181 - The glass ceiling that separated the races 203 00:09:09,181 --> 00:09:11,918 and created segregation, the United States of America, 204 00:09:11,918 --> 00:09:15,721 it took little nicks to dismantle. 205 00:09:15,721 --> 00:09:19,759 That glass was put up in 1896 with Plessy versus Ferguson, 206 00:09:19,759 --> 00:09:21,494 when the United States Supreme Court 207 00:09:21,494 --> 00:09:23,963 decided that separate was equal, okay. 208 00:09:23,963 --> 00:09:28,000 And so that rule, that separate but equal clause 209 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,969 created Jim Crow in the South. 210 00:09:29,969 --> 00:09:32,471 It created the southern apartheid. 211 00:09:32,471 --> 00:09:34,173 Then, of course, with 1954, 212 00:09:34,173 --> 00:09:36,742 with the Brown versus Board of Education, 213 00:09:36,742 --> 00:09:38,611 you see that the United States Supreme Court said 214 00:09:38,611 --> 00:09:42,448 that segregation was illegal in public schools. 215 00:09:42,448 --> 00:09:44,617 And so they integrated public schools, 216 00:09:44,617 --> 00:09:46,018 and public schools only, 217 00:09:46,018 --> 00:09:47,920 because the federal government contributed funds 218 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,357 to state public schools, so they had that control. 219 00:09:51,357 --> 00:09:54,627 Then you see in 1957, just four years later, 220 00:09:54,627 --> 00:09:57,563 a civil rights bill giving African Americans 221 00:09:57,563 --> 00:10:01,133 the right to vote, but it was not enforced. 222 00:10:01,133 --> 00:10:02,635 See, a lot of people, it was watered down. 223 00:10:02,635 --> 00:10:04,003 But did do two things. 224 00:10:04,003 --> 00:10:08,708 It created the Department of Civil Rights 225 00:10:08,708 --> 00:10:09,842 in the Department of Justice 226 00:10:09,842 --> 00:10:12,244 and created a commission on civil rights. 227 00:10:12,244 --> 00:10:15,414 So then, three years later, you see the Greensboro sit-ins, 228 00:10:15,414 --> 00:10:19,552 and a year later, you see what happens in Rock Hill. 229 00:10:19,552 --> 00:10:20,786 Two years later you see what happens 230 00:10:20,786 --> 00:10:22,188 in Birmingham with Dr. King. 231 00:10:22,188 --> 00:10:24,490 And so what's happening is the African Americans 232 00:10:24,490 --> 00:10:26,058 are just chipping away. Chipping away. 233 00:10:26,058 --> 00:10:27,026 - [Author] It's on the continuum. 234 00:10:27,026 --> 00:10:28,227 - Yeah, it's on the continuum. 235 00:10:28,227 --> 00:10:31,163 You can't look at this thing in a vacuum, 236 00:10:31,163 --> 00:10:33,332 that one day these nine students decide 237 00:10:33,332 --> 00:10:35,668 to go to McCrory's and sit down. 238 00:10:35,668 --> 00:10:37,236 You know, history doesn't work that way. 239 00:10:37,236 --> 00:10:39,805 There was a process by which we got to that point. 240 00:10:39,805 --> 00:10:41,641 And so this is part of the continuum 241 00:10:41,641 --> 00:10:44,243 of them just chipping away one piece at a time 242 00:10:44,243 --> 00:10:45,578 to knock this ceiling down. 243 00:10:46,912 --> 00:10:48,547 - And it's also important to remember too, 244 00:10:48,547 --> 00:10:50,650 that prior to the Rock Hill case, 245 00:10:50,650 --> 00:10:53,719 they were a number of sit-ins in Charleston, South Carolina. 246 00:10:53,719 --> 00:10:55,388 One of them, which involved Harvey Gantt, 247 00:10:55,388 --> 00:10:57,757 who was eventually the mayor of Charlotte. 248 00:10:57,757 --> 00:10:59,492 There was another in Spartanburg, 249 00:10:59,492 --> 00:11:00,826 where you had a number of students, 250 00:11:00,826 --> 00:11:03,462 including an 11-year-old girl by the name of a 251 00:11:03,462 --> 00:11:06,532 Carol Moore-Richard, who were chased by a mob 252 00:11:06,532 --> 00:11:09,602 after they were forced from the Cress 253 00:11:09,602 --> 00:11:11,237 in the Woolworths in Spartanburg. 254 00:11:11,237 --> 00:11:13,839 And there was also a case in Columbia where they had 255 00:11:13,839 --> 00:11:15,508 the protest of the Cress, where a young man, 256 00:11:15,508 --> 00:11:18,177 I believe his name was Lenny Hayton, if I recall correctly, 257 00:11:18,177 --> 00:11:20,613 was stabbed for protesting in front of the store. 258 00:11:20,613 --> 00:11:22,748 - Let's talk, because you mentioned earlier 259 00:11:24,617 --> 00:11:27,053 an area where the Ku Klux claim was really strong. 260 00:11:27,053 --> 00:11:28,220 - York, South York County. 261 00:11:28,220 --> 00:11:29,488 - York County. 262 00:11:29,488 --> 00:11:32,658 - Right, right just North of Rock Hill. 263 00:11:32,658 --> 00:11:34,660 - And so when you said it was really strong, 264 00:11:34,660 --> 00:11:36,062 what happened in York County. 265 00:11:36,062 --> 00:11:38,998 - In 1871, you had a mass uprising 266 00:11:38,998 --> 00:11:42,101 of the Ku Klux Klan that led President Ulysses S Grant 267 00:11:42,101 --> 00:11:46,238 to call federal troops to put down these horrible instances. 268 00:11:46,238 --> 00:11:48,708 And when this Klan was brutalizing 269 00:11:48,708 --> 00:11:50,843 a lot of individuals and so forth, 270 00:11:50,843 --> 00:11:53,646 a lot of that, as a matter of fact, led the Klan 271 00:11:53,646 --> 00:11:56,682 to be outlawed by 1873. 272 00:11:56,682 --> 00:11:59,552 But one source, Lou Faulkner Williams book 273 00:11:59,552 --> 00:12:02,688 on the Ku Klux Klan uprisings of 1871 and 1872, 274 00:12:02,688 --> 00:12:05,791 notes that almost the entire white male population 275 00:12:05,791 --> 00:12:09,595 of York County had joined the Ku Klux Klan at that point. 276 00:12:09,595 --> 00:12:12,398 Most of these people were ex Confederate soldiers. 277 00:12:12,398 --> 00:12:15,134 So the Klan was actually outlawed in the United States 278 00:12:15,134 --> 00:12:19,205 from 1873 until its rebirth in 1915. 279 00:12:19,205 --> 00:12:21,941 However, you had other groups that did 280 00:12:21,941 --> 00:12:24,310 a lot of Klan type activities, such as the Red Shirts 281 00:12:24,310 --> 00:12:26,212 and the Knights of the White Chameleon, et cetera. 282 00:12:26,212 --> 00:12:29,115 So a lot of that plays into Rock Hill's history 283 00:12:29,115 --> 00:12:30,616 when it comes to dealing with these issues. 284 00:12:30,616 --> 00:12:31,884 - Yeah. Go ahead. 285 00:12:31,884 --> 00:12:33,385 - Yeah, we also have to realize, 286 00:12:33,385 --> 00:12:36,655 even though York County now, because it buffers Charlotte, 287 00:12:36,655 --> 00:12:38,157 it seems so progressive. 288 00:12:38,157 --> 00:12:40,793 In this day it was called the Back Country, all right. 289 00:12:40,793 --> 00:12:43,629 And so in the Back Country you could do Backwoods things. 290 00:12:43,629 --> 00:12:45,164 - [Author] Exactly. 291 00:12:45,164 --> 00:12:47,500 - And so one of the gentlemen in the documentary talks about 292 00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:50,202 that they were scared for their lives in Rocky Hill. 293 00:12:50,202 --> 00:12:53,172 That at any moment, if any African American act out a step, 294 00:12:53,172 --> 00:12:55,074 you could be shot dead straight on the street 295 00:12:55,074 --> 00:12:58,277 because of the presence of the Ku Klux Klan. 296 00:12:58,277 --> 00:13:00,212 And that's one thing that's not talked about. 297 00:13:00,212 --> 00:13:02,081 You know, we talk about Pulaski, Tennessee, 298 00:13:02,081 --> 00:13:04,817 we talk about the KKK down in the deep South, 299 00:13:04,817 --> 00:13:08,420 but the KKK was strong in South Carolina. 300 00:13:08,420 --> 00:13:13,425 - There's one gentleman who decided to put up bail 301 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:15,427 and to get out of jail. 302 00:13:15,427 --> 00:13:17,530 I think he was on a football scholarship 303 00:13:17,530 --> 00:13:18,898 or something like that. 304 00:13:21,267 --> 00:13:24,403 Do you think he was ostracized then by the other nine? 305 00:13:24,403 --> 00:13:25,638 - A personal story, when I was at the 306 00:13:25,638 --> 00:13:27,473 University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, 307 00:13:27,473 --> 00:13:28,674 we were trying to get our own, 308 00:13:28,674 --> 00:13:30,609 what's called Black Cultural Center. 309 00:13:30,609 --> 00:13:32,211 We wanted our own black cultural center 310 00:13:32,211 --> 00:13:33,379 a freestanding building, 311 00:13:33,379 --> 00:13:35,381 and the university would not give it to us. 312 00:13:35,381 --> 00:13:37,516 And so we marched on the campus 313 00:13:37,516 --> 00:13:38,651 of the University of North Carolina. 314 00:13:38,651 --> 00:13:40,386 We took over the administration building, 315 00:13:40,386 --> 00:13:42,288 had a sit-in in the administration building, 316 00:13:42,288 --> 00:13:44,023 took over the president's office. 317 00:13:44,023 --> 00:13:47,660 And then the police came and says, you know, 318 00:13:47,660 --> 00:13:50,029 "you're trespassing, you have to leave now 319 00:13:50,029 --> 00:13:51,463 or else you're gonna be arrested." 320 00:13:51,463 --> 00:13:53,666 All but 10 of us left. 321 00:13:53,666 --> 00:13:56,135 But I don't think it says anything different about 322 00:13:56,135 --> 00:13:58,838 the other 400 of us who decided not to get arrested.. 323 00:13:58,838 --> 00:14:01,707 That we were sold out, let's say, 324 00:14:01,707 --> 00:14:03,209 because we didn't get arrested. 325 00:14:03,209 --> 00:14:06,078 You know, we just decided, we were proud of them, 326 00:14:06,078 --> 00:14:08,547 we were saluting them, we were clapping for 'em. 327 00:14:08,547 --> 00:14:10,049 We bailed them out. 328 00:14:10,049 --> 00:14:13,485 But at that moment, you know, you have to weigh your life 329 00:14:13,485 --> 00:14:15,221 and make a decision for you right then. 330 00:14:15,221 --> 00:14:17,022 "Am I going to jail to make a statement 331 00:14:17,022 --> 00:14:18,924 or I'm going be staying in college." 332 00:14:18,924 --> 00:14:22,828 - So I think that gentleman should be respected, 333 00:14:22,828 --> 00:14:24,763 even from making it as far as he did. 334 00:14:24,763 --> 00:14:25,998 - Right. - When it came to that, 335 00:14:25,998 --> 00:14:28,734 because to even just the very act of going 336 00:14:28,734 --> 00:14:30,169 in that lunch counter and sitting down 337 00:14:30,169 --> 00:14:32,204 when they know they could be assaulted. 338 00:14:32,204 --> 00:14:34,240 And then by principal, they were forced 339 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:35,541 to be nonviolent about it. 340 00:14:35,541 --> 00:14:37,409 I mean, that takes more courage than a lot 341 00:14:37,409 --> 00:14:39,078 of people who would criticize these individuals I think. 342 00:14:39,078 --> 00:14:40,346 - Yeah. 343 00:14:40,346 --> 00:14:43,182 I'm assuming that there were a lot of adults who 344 00:14:43,182 --> 00:14:45,551 at that time, were really concerned 345 00:14:45,551 --> 00:14:48,487 and who actually tried to talk their young people, 346 00:14:48,487 --> 00:14:50,322 their children out of participating. 347 00:14:50,322 --> 00:14:51,824 - Oh, yes. - Right. 348 00:14:51,824 --> 00:14:53,025 - That was a very frequent occurrence at that time. 349 00:14:53,025 --> 00:14:54,326 A lot of people who were involved with that 350 00:14:54,326 --> 00:14:56,061 will honestly tell you that that was the case. 351 00:14:56,061 --> 00:14:58,931 Jesse Jackson's father at one point forbade his son 352 00:14:58,931 --> 00:15:02,601 to go into a sit-in against Greenville's libraries back 353 00:15:02,601 --> 00:15:05,170 in the year 1960. 354 00:15:05,170 --> 00:15:08,641 - But on the other side, King knew when he did Project C 355 00:15:08,641 --> 00:15:10,910 in Birmingham, he was criticized 356 00:15:10,910 --> 00:15:13,946 for encouraging the kids and asking the parents 357 00:15:13,946 --> 00:15:16,215 to allow their kids to lead the marches. 358 00:15:16,215 --> 00:15:19,485 And the reason was, I mean, people were really upset 359 00:15:19,485 --> 00:15:21,787 with him because the dogs and the water hose started 360 00:15:21,787 --> 00:15:23,989 on the kids but it was strategic. 361 00:15:23,989 --> 00:15:25,557 Just like our brothers in Rock Hill, 362 00:15:25,557 --> 00:15:28,227 they did stuff strategically, not just to do it. 363 00:15:28,227 --> 00:15:31,330 The strategy was that King knew that to change the South, 364 00:15:31,330 --> 00:15:33,599 he had to change America's conscious. 365 00:15:33,599 --> 00:15:35,334 So he want America to see that 366 00:15:35,334 --> 00:15:39,305 in the south they will sick dogs on little children. 367 00:15:39,305 --> 00:15:41,006 - Now, we talked a little earlier too, 368 00:15:41,006 --> 00:15:46,011 about the fact that Rock Hill was severely segregated 369 00:15:47,379 --> 00:15:48,747 during this period of time, and that black people 370 00:15:48,747 --> 00:15:51,150 were really, really afraid for their lives. 371 00:15:51,150 --> 00:15:52,651 - Correct. 372 00:15:52,651 --> 00:15:56,522 - Do you think that young people really were the ones 373 00:15:56,522 --> 00:15:59,725 that had the vision of the foresight to see, like, 374 00:15:59,725 --> 00:16:01,026 "we can change this?" 375 00:16:01,026 --> 00:16:03,362 - Well, by and large, I would say that they did. 376 00:16:03,362 --> 00:16:06,365 Because what often happens is that as you grow up 377 00:16:06,365 --> 00:16:09,001 in the system and as you grow older, 378 00:16:09,001 --> 00:16:11,303 time has a way of making people adapt 379 00:16:11,303 --> 00:16:13,772 to certain ways of thinking and then they become, 380 00:16:13,772 --> 00:16:16,575 as they get older, hardened and resistant to change. 381 00:16:16,575 --> 00:16:19,178 Young people are taught at a very early age 382 00:16:19,178 --> 00:16:20,980 that if you do the right things, 383 00:16:20,980 --> 00:16:22,548 everything will be fair and just to you. 384 00:16:22,548 --> 00:16:24,850 And when they see that, they tend to react 385 00:16:24,850 --> 00:16:27,686 in a harsher way than most adults who had gotten accustomed 386 00:16:27,686 --> 00:16:29,321 to the system would react. 387 00:16:29,321 --> 00:16:31,790 So since they're still young and still filled 388 00:16:31,790 --> 00:16:35,194 with all that idealism, it would only be natural being 389 00:16:35,194 --> 00:16:37,396 that they're still young enough to believe 390 00:16:37,396 --> 00:16:38,998 in the fairness and justice of it all, 391 00:16:38,998 --> 00:16:40,599 that they would go out and do this. 392 00:16:40,599 --> 00:16:43,068 - I think also the historians do this all the time, 393 00:16:43,068 --> 00:16:45,571 on the counter argument is I also believe 394 00:16:45,571 --> 00:16:48,440 that the younger you are, the more risk you will take. 395 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,510 Okay, and so there's a difference between being 396 00:16:51,510 --> 00:16:54,713 a 60 year old man who's the foreman of a white-owned company 397 00:16:54,713 --> 00:16:57,149 and a 19 year old college student. 398 00:16:57,149 --> 00:16:59,418 Whether that guy wants to risk his job, 399 00:16:59,418 --> 00:17:01,787 risk his livelihood, risk his position in society. 400 00:17:01,787 --> 00:17:03,655 And I think he has the right to say, you know, 401 00:17:03,655 --> 00:17:04,890 Hey, I'm gonna go to the meeting. 402 00:17:04,890 --> 00:17:06,125 I'm gonna probably give some money, 403 00:17:06,125 --> 00:17:07,359 but I'm not gonna be out on the street 404 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:08,594 because I know if they see me out 405 00:17:08,594 --> 00:17:10,863 in the street marching, I'm gonna lose my job, 406 00:17:10,863 --> 00:17:14,566 lose my house, and my family's gonna have some problems. 407 00:17:14,566 --> 00:17:17,636 Compared to the 19 year old who's just a college student, 408 00:17:17,636 --> 00:17:20,572 you know, who doesn't have those responsibilities, 409 00:17:20,572 --> 00:17:21,807 and doesn't have all this, you know, 410 00:17:21,807 --> 00:17:23,609 he can take more risks and do more things. 411 00:17:23,609 --> 00:17:26,412 And that's why SNCC and CORE were so important 412 00:17:26,412 --> 00:17:29,681 because the young community mobilized. 413 00:17:29,681 --> 00:17:31,784 Hey, some would argue the reason 414 00:17:31,784 --> 00:17:33,519 why we have our President now, 415 00:17:33,519 --> 00:17:37,790 that the young community of the United States of America. 416 00:17:37,790 --> 00:17:39,358 You know, racism is taught. 417 00:17:39,358 --> 00:17:40,592 Now, one of the great things 418 00:17:40,592 --> 00:17:42,194 is the reason why we don't have racism 419 00:17:42,194 --> 00:17:43,796 like we used to have racism is 420 00:17:43,796 --> 00:17:46,498 because luckily there are persons who are not teaching 421 00:17:46,498 --> 00:17:48,333 their children to be racist. 422 00:17:48,333 --> 00:17:51,036 Those activities, that racist thought was taught, 423 00:17:51,036 --> 00:17:54,139 it was learned, it was a learned behavior, it's not innate. 424 00:17:54,139 --> 00:17:55,808 And so this generation is different. 425 00:17:55,808 --> 00:17:57,142 They have not been taught that there's 426 00:17:57,142 --> 00:17:58,877 a difference between being black and white 427 00:17:58,877 --> 00:18:02,147 or that black persons or Hispanic persons are less than. 428 00:18:02,147 --> 00:18:03,849 So they don't have that same consciousness. 429 00:18:03,849 --> 00:18:07,453 And so that's why the country mobilized a couple years ago 430 00:18:07,453 --> 00:18:09,455 and elected an African American president. 431 00:18:09,455 --> 00:18:13,459 - I do wonder why, going back to the Jail Nobel, 432 00:18:14,693 --> 00:18:16,361 what is the significance, you think, 433 00:18:16,361 --> 00:18:19,698 have you even thought about this, of the lunch counters? 434 00:18:19,698 --> 00:18:22,301 Why the sit-ins at the lunch counters, 435 00:18:22,301 --> 00:18:24,870 the Woolworths, the Cress', McCrory's? 436 00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:29,875 - Well, basically the idea was that you could really 437 00:18:31,043 --> 00:18:33,846 not logically find an explanation for the idea 438 00:18:33,846 --> 00:18:36,815 that an individual was able to go into a store, 439 00:18:36,815 --> 00:18:39,284 pay for the various items in that store, 440 00:18:39,284 --> 00:18:43,088 but not be allowed to sit down and eat, even though, 441 00:18:43,088 --> 00:18:47,092 this individual has patronize the store in other ways. 442 00:18:47,092 --> 00:18:48,594 And what these people wanted to do was 443 00:18:48,594 --> 00:18:52,331 to point out the open injustice of something like that 444 00:18:52,331 --> 00:18:53,899 to the nation and to the world. 445 00:18:53,899 --> 00:18:56,935 Because while you could say that you may not want 446 00:18:56,935 --> 00:18:59,671 a person in your household or your neighborhood 447 00:18:59,671 --> 00:19:01,874 due to personal choice, the fact you live there. 448 00:19:01,874 --> 00:19:04,676 The idea that you have a public business 449 00:19:04,676 --> 00:19:07,513 that's able to serve individuals in every other way 450 00:19:07,513 --> 00:19:12,518 but the lunch counter, it would take a very advanced person 451 00:19:13,919 --> 00:19:15,487 of theory to try to make sense out of something like that 452 00:19:15,487 --> 00:19:17,356 to people who didn't grow up under that system. 453 00:19:17,356 --> 00:19:19,291 So once you hold that up under the light 454 00:19:19,291 --> 00:19:21,860 of people who don't live like this, 455 00:19:21,860 --> 00:19:23,395 they will more than likely say, 456 00:19:23,395 --> 00:19:24,696 "Hey, something is wrong with this." 457 00:19:24,696 --> 00:19:26,265 Because it's often like the telephone pole 458 00:19:26,265 --> 00:19:27,766 in front of your house. 459 00:19:27,766 --> 00:19:29,735 You see it so often that you don't think about it anymore. 460 00:19:29,735 --> 00:19:31,336 And that you accept it as a part of reality. 461 00:19:31,336 --> 00:19:33,438 Well it takes a person on the outside 462 00:19:33,438 --> 00:19:34,973 to look at that and say, 463 00:19:34,973 --> 00:19:36,208 "Hey, there's something in front of your house, see?" 464 00:19:36,208 --> 00:19:37,543 So that was the idea behind this. 465 00:19:37,543 --> 00:19:39,244 - Yeah. And I know a lot of times too, 466 00:19:39,244 --> 00:19:43,782 the police who went in to arrest these young people, 467 00:19:45,150 --> 00:19:49,688 what do you think, the thinking process for these police, 468 00:19:49,688 --> 00:19:51,123 people that you said may have been members 469 00:19:51,123 --> 00:19:52,057 of the Ku Klux Klan? 470 00:19:52,057 --> 00:19:53,559 - Well, two things. 471 00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:56,695 Number one, there was a joy in beating African Americans. 472 00:19:56,695 --> 00:19:58,664 They got joy out of that, all right? 473 00:19:58,664 --> 00:20:01,200 But second of all, they were making examples 474 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,169 out of these men to prevent other African Americans 475 00:20:04,169 --> 00:20:05,470 from bucking the system. 476 00:20:05,470 --> 00:20:08,040 And most plantations and most endurance slavery, 477 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,274 when a person was whipped, 478 00:20:09,274 --> 00:20:10,776 it was a public whipping where they would bring 479 00:20:10,776 --> 00:20:13,345 the entire plantation together, string someone 480 00:20:13,345 --> 00:20:14,580 to a tree and say, 481 00:20:14,580 --> 00:20:16,848 "if you do this, try to run away, break a hoe, 482 00:20:16,848 --> 00:20:19,051 steal a chicken, this is what would happen to you." 483 00:20:19,051 --> 00:20:21,687 And then in those cases, a lot of times they would even have 484 00:20:21,687 --> 00:20:23,388 an African American, you know, 485 00:20:23,388 --> 00:20:26,358 one of their own slaves whip the person. 486 00:20:26,358 --> 00:20:30,662 And so they were creating imagery in the minds 487 00:20:30,662 --> 00:20:32,664 of the African-American populace. 488 00:20:32,664 --> 00:20:34,233 Likewise, with these sit-ins, I mean, 489 00:20:34,233 --> 00:20:36,768 they were brutalized, hot coffee was poured on them, 490 00:20:36,768 --> 00:20:38,470 mayonnaise, mustard, ketchup were thrown on 'em. 491 00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:40,706 They were drug from the chairs outside. 492 00:20:40,706 --> 00:20:41,907 You know, they were made examples of, 493 00:20:41,907 --> 00:20:44,243 it was spectator sport, you know, 494 00:20:44,243 --> 00:20:47,012 to make them into embarrassing to show the community, 495 00:20:47,012 --> 00:20:48,914 especially the African American community 496 00:20:48,914 --> 00:20:51,083 that here are the rules and here are the regulations, 497 00:20:51,083 --> 00:20:52,884 here are the lines which you stay in. 498 00:20:52,884 --> 00:20:55,120 If you get outta the line, this is what will happen to you. 499 00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:56,788 - But it's also important to mention too, 500 00:20:56,788 --> 00:20:59,691 that usually in those days, it was not uncommon 501 00:20:59,691 --> 00:21:01,126 to have people on the police force 502 00:21:01,126 --> 00:21:03,695 that were literally illiterate and poorly educated. 503 00:21:03,695 --> 00:21:06,765 You see, what would happen was, even going back to slavery 504 00:21:06,765 --> 00:21:09,434 and even into the system that we're discussing today, 505 00:21:09,434 --> 00:21:13,005 the white power structure would often use 506 00:21:13,005 --> 00:21:16,041 the poorest and least educated members 507 00:21:16,041 --> 00:21:17,776 of the white community as shock troops 508 00:21:17,776 --> 00:21:19,177 for this type of thing. 509 00:21:19,177 --> 00:21:23,615 Because these individuals personal security 510 00:21:24,750 --> 00:21:26,184 was based on the idea that we may be 511 00:21:26,184 --> 00:21:28,854 at the bottom of our society, but there are this group 512 00:21:28,854 --> 00:21:31,523 of people who are socially beneath us 513 00:21:31,523 --> 00:21:33,125 in order to maintain their position. 514 00:21:33,125 --> 00:21:36,361 They tended to act more brutally toward these individuals 515 00:21:36,361 --> 00:21:39,631 than say the governor or a senator or a mayor. 516 00:21:39,631 --> 00:21:42,701 So essentially, individuals like this were used as 517 00:21:42,701 --> 00:21:45,170 sort of shock troops as a means of dividing and conquer 518 00:21:45,170 --> 00:21:46,872 the poor and white, black communities 519 00:21:46,872 --> 00:21:48,173 so both will be exploited. 520 00:21:48,173 --> 00:21:49,875 - And it's still going on today. 521 00:21:49,875 --> 00:21:53,779 You know, even in some poor Caucasian communities, 522 00:21:53,779 --> 00:21:55,514 at least we're not African American.. 523 00:21:55,514 --> 00:21:57,582 And so what the planner class did 524 00:21:57,582 --> 00:22:00,118 and what the white power structure did was say, 525 00:22:00,118 --> 00:22:02,788 "you can be part of us. You're not really going to be us, 526 00:22:02,788 --> 00:22:06,258 but you going to help us keep the Negro in his place. 527 00:22:06,258 --> 00:22:09,995 So even though you poor and don't have even have shoes like 528 00:22:09,995 --> 00:22:12,164 they do, at least you're not them. 529 00:22:12,164 --> 00:22:14,366 So we are gonna make you kind of part of the club, 530 00:22:14,366 --> 00:22:16,635 but you're gonna do our bidding for us. 531 00:22:16,635 --> 00:22:18,537 We are gonna stay the elite 532 00:22:18,537 --> 00:22:20,372 and you're still gonna be the poor white, 533 00:22:20,372 --> 00:22:21,606 but we are gonna work together 534 00:22:21,606 --> 00:22:22,874 to keep the Negros in their place." 535 00:22:22,874 --> 00:22:24,710 - And that divide and conquer strategy 536 00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:26,578 is the prime reason behind racism 537 00:22:26,578 --> 00:22:27,946 in the southern United States. 538 00:22:27,946 --> 00:22:28,980 - Absolutely. 539 00:22:28,980 --> 00:22:31,783 - I know in the documentary, 540 00:22:31,783 --> 00:22:34,886 they talk about the young men, well the older men now, 541 00:22:34,886 --> 00:22:37,055 they talk about the fact that they actually had 542 00:22:37,055 --> 00:22:38,924 to work on chain gangs. 543 00:22:38,924 --> 00:22:43,028 What was the effect of a chain gang? 544 00:22:43,028 --> 00:22:44,262 - Brutal work. 545 00:22:44,262 --> 00:22:46,398 I mean, it was likened to slavery. 546 00:22:46,398 --> 00:22:47,933 It's the plantation system. 547 00:22:47,933 --> 00:22:50,102 Most of us in the African American community have 548 00:22:50,102 --> 00:22:51,837 watched the movie, Life. 549 00:22:51,837 --> 00:22:56,108 It's a comedy with Martin Lawrence and the late Bernie Mac. 550 00:22:57,309 --> 00:22:58,276 And it's about, I don't know what state it is, 551 00:22:58,276 --> 00:22:59,444 but it's about African American- 552 00:22:59,444 --> 00:23:00,545 - [Author] Mississippi - Mississippi. 553 00:23:00,545 --> 00:23:02,981 worked in a segregated chain gang. 554 00:23:02,981 --> 00:23:05,083 And what they did was bus rocks 555 00:23:05,083 --> 00:23:07,386 and dig ditches all day long. 556 00:23:07,386 --> 00:23:09,287 And there's nothing more likened to slavery 557 00:23:09,287 --> 00:23:10,522 than working in the chain gang. 558 00:23:10,522 --> 00:23:12,657 - And the idea behind that too was to form 559 00:23:12,657 --> 00:23:15,827 a permanent class of cheap labor for the states. 560 00:23:15,827 --> 00:23:17,295 And in fact, that movie even deals 561 00:23:17,295 --> 00:23:19,064 with the fact of that matter. 562 00:23:19,064 --> 00:23:20,465 - Yeah. 563 00:23:20,465 --> 00:23:21,733 But I know in the documentary, the guy said, 564 00:23:21,733 --> 00:23:24,870 "we'd move dirt from one spot to the other spot, 565 00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:26,972 and then move it back to the same spot all over again." 566 00:23:26,972 --> 00:23:28,306 - Right. Well see, the thing was 567 00:23:28,306 --> 00:23:30,342 that a person who was over chain gang, 568 00:23:30,342 --> 00:23:33,011 this is an overseer on the plantation, 569 00:23:33,011 --> 00:23:34,713 they would have absolute control over you. 570 00:23:34,713 --> 00:23:37,516 So you're taking a person who is the most oppressed 571 00:23:37,516 --> 00:23:39,551 and least respected member of his society 572 00:23:39,551 --> 00:23:41,920 and put an individual with those type of complexes 573 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,856 over other people, that type of abuse will happen. 574 00:23:44,856 --> 00:23:46,792 Because he's taking out his frustration 575 00:23:46,792 --> 00:23:48,960 on these individuals he's in control over. 576 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,396 - Is there any possibility or any chance 577 00:23:51,396 --> 00:23:54,733 that you think incidences like this, 578 00:23:54,733 --> 00:23:56,935 a history like this, will actually be put 579 00:23:56,935 --> 00:23:58,603 into our history books for our young people? 580 00:23:58,603 --> 00:24:00,272 - Well that's why we're here because see, 581 00:24:00,272 --> 00:24:02,240 while these people are still alive, 582 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,310 we can document those things because in those days, 583 00:24:05,310 --> 00:24:07,779 of course these things were not reported 584 00:24:07,779 --> 00:24:10,482 because a lot of times the media was owned 585 00:24:10,482 --> 00:24:13,151 by a lot of the respectable families of these areas. 586 00:24:13,151 --> 00:24:14,920 And on a chamber of commerce type level, 587 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,822 they didn't wanna put out bad publicity 588 00:24:16,822 --> 00:24:19,090 of the areas in which they live. 589 00:24:19,090 --> 00:24:21,092 However, there are people who are still alive 590 00:24:21,092 --> 00:24:22,761 that we can talk to and put this out. 591 00:24:22,761 --> 00:24:24,996 And individuals like ourselves who go out 592 00:24:24,996 --> 00:24:28,433 and study these things and bring them out before the public 593 00:24:28,433 --> 00:24:29,835 in order to make it well known, 594 00:24:29,835 --> 00:24:32,337 because there are thousands of stories like this 595 00:24:32,337 --> 00:24:34,239 that are not known that we need to do this with. 596 00:24:34,239 --> 00:24:36,107 And I have to explain to my students all the time, 597 00:24:36,107 --> 00:24:37,676 there's more to history than what you see 598 00:24:37,676 --> 00:24:38,710 in that classroom textbook. 599 00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:40,145 - Yeah, absolutely. 600 00:24:40,145 --> 00:24:44,616 What do you think, this tweaking of that sit-in situation, 601 00:24:45,784 --> 00:24:47,419 what do you think it really meant 602 00:24:47,419 --> 00:24:49,287 from a historical perspective really quickly? 603 00:24:49,287 --> 00:24:50,922 - I think it meant no turning back. 604 00:24:50,922 --> 00:24:54,726 I think the system changed how they were operating 605 00:24:54,726 --> 00:24:58,230 to the fact that we are willing to risk our bodies 606 00:24:58,230 --> 00:25:02,067 and our lives and even our rights that we already have 607 00:25:02,067 --> 00:25:04,503 for full civil rights. 608 00:25:04,503 --> 00:25:05,770 I think that's what made it so important. 609 00:25:05,770 --> 00:25:07,973 It was a change in the strategy. 610 00:25:07,973 --> 00:25:09,407 - I think it was important because 611 00:25:09,407 --> 00:25:12,143 it showed young people across the nation the effect 612 00:25:12,143 --> 00:25:14,212 of which other young people were willing to go 613 00:25:14,212 --> 00:25:17,082 in order to make society better than it was then. 614 00:25:17,082 --> 00:25:19,150 And it encouraged a lot of those young people 615 00:25:19,150 --> 00:25:21,987 to help work it to make the society what it is today. 616 00:25:21,987 --> 00:25:23,522 And so if young people today were 617 00:25:23,522 --> 00:25:25,690 to see something like this, maybe it would inspire them 618 00:25:25,690 --> 00:25:27,392 to make the further changes that are needed 619 00:25:27,392 --> 00:25:28,894 to make the society where it should be. 620 00:25:28,894 --> 00:25:30,262 - Okay guys, thank you so much. 621 00:25:30,262 --> 00:25:31,763 Always great talking with you. 622 00:25:31,763 --> 00:25:33,198 Always bring great insight to the show. 623 00:25:33,198 --> 00:25:34,699 We appreciate you today. 624 00:25:34,699 --> 00:25:38,169 And watch for the new Carolina Stories Documentary, 625 00:25:38,169 --> 00:25:42,307 Jail Nobel, on ETV Thursday, February 3rd at nine o'clock 626 00:25:42,307 --> 00:25:46,111 and Sunday, February 6th at 4:00 PM. 627 00:25:46,111 --> 00:25:48,079 And we really wanna hear from you. 628 00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:50,415 Our mailing address is Connections, SCETV, 629 00:25:50,415 --> 00:25:55,053 Post Office Box 11000, Columbia, South Carolina 29211. 630 00:25:55,053 --> 00:25:57,923 Our email address is connections@scetv.org. 631 00:25:57,923 --> 00:26:01,660 And for more information about how you can participate, 632 00:26:01,660 --> 00:26:06,665 go to the connections website at www.scetv.org/connections. 633 00:26:07,399 --> 00:26:08,633 Well, that's our show. 634 00:26:08,633 --> 00:26:09,701 Thank you so much for joining us. 635 00:26:09,701 --> 00:26:11,503 Remember, stay connected. 636 00:26:11,503 --> 00:26:13,438 I'm P.A. Bennett and I'll see you next time 637 00:26:13,438 --> 00:26:15,173 right here on Connections. 638 00:26:16,541 --> 00:26:19,377 (energetic music)