1 00:00:00,766 --> 00:00:02,866 [Scott] Coming up on "Energy Switch," 2 00:00:02,866 --> 00:00:05,400 we'll talk about carbon capture and storage. 3 00:00:06,366 --> 00:00:07,466 - If you care about climate, 4 00:00:07,466 --> 00:00:09,500 you should care about carbon, period. 5 00:00:09,500 --> 00:00:12,633 Twenty years ago, we were just looking at coal plants for real, 6 00:00:12,633 --> 00:00:14,200 maybe gas plants. 7 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,966 Now we have capture technology for everything 8 00:00:16,966 --> 00:00:19,966 and the costs are going down fast. 9 00:00:19,966 --> 00:00:22,000 - It's more about being an 10 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,266 emissions mitigation suite of technologies. 11 00:00:26,266 --> 00:00:27,833 So if it's cement factories, 12 00:00:27,833 --> 00:00:30,266 if it's ethanol, all of the above, 13 00:00:30,266 --> 00:00:33,300 we need to be decarbonizing those point sources. 14 00:00:33,833 --> 00:00:35,833 [Scott] Next on "Energy Switch," 15 00:00:35,833 --> 00:00:38,566 carbon capture and storage. 16 00:00:40,466 --> 00:00:41,700 [Narrator] Funding for "Energy Switch" 17 00:00:41,700 --> 00:00:44,833 was provided in part by 18 00:00:44,833 --> 00:00:47,333 the University of Texas at Austin, 19 00:00:47,333 --> 00:00:49,833 leading research in energy and the environment 20 00:00:49,833 --> 00:00:51,633 for a better tomorrow. 21 00:00:51,633 --> 00:00:54,366 What starts here changes the world. 22 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,966 And by EarthX, an international nonprofit 23 00:00:58,966 --> 00:01:01,733 working towards a more sustainable future. 24 00:01:01,733 --> 00:01:04,566 See more at earthx.org. 25 00:01:04,900 --> 00:01:06,266 [upbeat music] 26 00:01:06,266 --> 00:01:07,433 - I'm Scott Tinker, 27 00:01:07,433 --> 00:01:09,566 and I'm an energy scientist. 28 00:01:09,566 --> 00:01:11,200 I work in the field, 29 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:12,300 lead research, 30 00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:14,066 speak around the world, 31 00:01:14,066 --> 00:01:15,133 write articles, 32 00:01:15,133 --> 00:01:18,066 and make films about energy. 33 00:01:18,066 --> 00:01:20,766 This show brings together leading experts 34 00:01:20,766 --> 00:01:23,766 on vital topics in energy and climate. 35 00:01:23,766 --> 00:01:25,633 They may have different perspectives, 36 00:01:25,633 --> 00:01:28,600 but my goal is to learn, and illuminate, 37 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,966 and bring diverging views together towards solutions. 38 00:01:32,766 --> 00:01:35,266 Welcome to the "Energy Switch." 39 00:01:37,100 --> 00:01:39,766 One solution to reducing our carbon emissions 40 00:01:39,766 --> 00:01:41,166 is to capture them 41 00:01:41,166 --> 00:01:43,133 and store them underground. 42 00:01:43,133 --> 00:01:46,200 There are challenges in all steps of this process. 43 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,666 How to capture the CO2 at energy and industrial facilities, 44 00:01:50,666 --> 00:01:53,033 how to build the pipelines to move it, 45 00:01:53,033 --> 00:01:54,766 where to store it 46 00:01:54,766 --> 00:01:56,666 and how to pay for it. 47 00:01:56,666 --> 00:01:58,500 But there are many projects 48 00:01:58,500 --> 00:02:00,266 now in the early stages 49 00:02:00,266 --> 00:02:02,666 beginning to address these issues. 50 00:02:03,066 --> 00:02:06,166 I'll talk about these with... 51 00:02:06,166 --> 00:02:07,666 Sallie Greenberg. 52 00:02:07,666 --> 00:02:10,033 She's the Principal Scientist for Energy and Minerals 53 00:02:10,033 --> 00:02:12,700 at the Illinois State Geological Survey, 54 00:02:12,700 --> 00:02:15,300 piloting a carbon capture and storage project 55 00:02:15,300 --> 00:02:17,766 at Illinois ethanol plants. 56 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,900 Julio Friedmann is the Chief Scientist at Carbon Direct, 57 00:02:21,900 --> 00:02:23,833 a carbon management company, 58 00:02:23,833 --> 00:02:25,766 formerly with the U.S. Department of Energy 59 00:02:25,766 --> 00:02:27,566 and Columbia University. 60 00:02:28,433 --> 00:02:30,666 In this episode of "Energy Switch," 61 00:02:30,666 --> 00:02:32,633 Carbon Capture and Storage. 62 00:02:33,466 --> 00:02:34,766 - It's great to have you both here. 63 00:02:34,766 --> 00:02:37,500 And we're starting off with why. 64 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:39,833 What do we care about capturing and storing CO2? 65 00:02:39,833 --> 00:02:41,233 Why does it matter? 66 00:02:41,233 --> 00:02:42,333 - If you care about climate 67 00:02:42,333 --> 00:02:44,433 you should care about carbon, period. 68 00:02:44,433 --> 00:02:46,333 The math is in, 69 00:02:46,333 --> 00:02:48,500 we can do some things like electrification 70 00:02:48,500 --> 00:02:50,133 and renewables and nuclear, 71 00:02:50,133 --> 00:02:51,900 but there's a bunch of things 72 00:02:51,900 --> 00:02:53,733 where we cannot do fuel switching 73 00:02:53,733 --> 00:02:55,666 where we just make emissions. 74 00:02:55,666 --> 00:02:59,966 It's about one seventh, about 14% of climate 75 00:02:59,966 --> 00:03:03,200 can really be best addressed with carbon capture. 76 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:04,700 - Okay. 77 00:03:04,700 --> 00:03:05,866 Agree? 78 00:03:05,866 --> 00:03:06,800 - I agree. 79 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,500 I think we have safe, effective 80 00:03:09,500 --> 00:03:11,866 demonstrated technologies that allow us 81 00:03:11,866 --> 00:03:14,633 to remove significant amounts of carbon dioxide 82 00:03:14,633 --> 00:03:17,066 from the system 83 00:03:17,066 --> 00:03:19,133 and we need to deploy it now. 84 00:03:19,133 --> 00:03:20,066 - Yeah. 85 00:03:20,066 --> 00:03:21,400 Well, let's talk about it. 86 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,366 There's lots of components to it. 87 00:03:23,366 --> 00:03:26,133 You know, capture is the first part. 88 00:03:26,133 --> 00:03:27,966 Coal plants, 89 00:03:27,966 --> 00:03:30,166 these are the big emitters. 90 00:03:30,166 --> 00:03:31,900 How do we go about doing that? 91 00:03:31,900 --> 00:03:33,800 - Basically what you need to do 92 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,266 is separate out the carbon dioxide 93 00:03:36,266 --> 00:03:38,866 from everything else that's in the emission stream, 94 00:03:38,866 --> 00:03:40,500 which is typically, you know, 95 00:03:40,500 --> 00:03:43,766 somewhere between seven to 30% carbon dioxide. 96 00:03:43,766 --> 00:03:46,100 So you need either a membrane 97 00:03:46,100 --> 00:03:48,333 which is a physical separation mechanism 98 00:03:48,333 --> 00:03:51,500 or an aiming or a chemical separation. 99 00:03:51,500 --> 00:03:54,700 So that what you end up with at the end of the day 100 00:03:54,700 --> 00:03:56,433 is pure carbon dioxide. 101 00:03:56,433 --> 00:03:57,433 - Okay. 102 00:03:57,433 --> 00:03:59,800 You got this stream going up a stack 103 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,033 and you're grabbing the CO2 outta that somehow. 104 00:04:02,033 --> 00:04:04,100 Does it make sense at coal plants? 105 00:04:04,100 --> 00:04:05,433 - There are two places in the world 106 00:04:05,433 --> 00:04:07,400 where we do this from a coal fired power plant. 107 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,733 One in Canada, one in Texas. 108 00:04:09,733 --> 00:04:11,800 But otherwise we're doing it from stuff like 109 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,266 natural gas refineries or hydrogen facilities, 110 00:04:15,266 --> 00:04:17,200 mostly from industrial sites. 111 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,166 So today there's about 27 plants 112 00:04:19,166 --> 00:04:22,833 around the world capturing about 46 million tons of CO2. 113 00:04:22,833 --> 00:04:24,933 And we have injected something on the order 114 00:04:24,933 --> 00:04:27,466 of 500 million tons of CO2 in total, 115 00:04:27,466 --> 00:04:28,700 so we know how to do this. 116 00:04:28,700 --> 00:04:30,400 - So 46 million tons per year they're captured? 117 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:31,466 - Yeah. - Okay. 118 00:04:31,466 --> 00:04:34,633 And so you said 46 million tons. 119 00:04:34,633 --> 00:04:37,900 Just for scale, how much do humans emit every year? 120 00:04:37,900 --> 00:04:40,633 - We do 46 million tons of CO2 globally. 121 00:04:40,633 --> 00:04:44,100 Global CO2 emissions are about 40 billion tons. 122 00:04:44,100 --> 00:04:46,833 So we're doing 1/1,000th of that today 123 00:04:46,833 --> 00:04:49,433 and that's one of the big challenges with carbon capture. 124 00:04:49,433 --> 00:04:51,633 It's a big prize, but we gotta scale it up a lot. 125 00:04:51,633 --> 00:04:53,600 - Yeah, so let's talk about gas then. 126 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,466 Natural gas is growing. 127 00:04:56,466 --> 00:04:59,433 It's got some benefits to capture. 128 00:04:59,433 --> 00:05:01,600 Talk about it a little bit. 129 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,133 - You know, the biggest cost 130 00:05:03,133 --> 00:05:05,966 associated with capture is the separation. 131 00:05:05,966 --> 00:05:07,400 It's not the capture. 132 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,666 If you capture from ethanol, it's a hundred or it's 99.9% CO2 133 00:05:11,666 --> 00:05:12,766 and some water. 134 00:05:12,766 --> 00:05:15,166 It's very easy to separate that out 135 00:05:15,166 --> 00:05:17,800 and you have a pure stream of CO2. 136 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,300 So the capture cost there is low. 137 00:05:20,300 --> 00:05:23,766 But when you are capturing either from coal or natural gas, 138 00:05:23,766 --> 00:05:26,666 you still have that high separation cost. 139 00:05:26,666 --> 00:05:29,766 So gas burns cleaner obviously. 140 00:05:29,766 --> 00:05:31,166 So you have less particulate matter, 141 00:05:31,166 --> 00:05:33,166 that helps us in other ways. 142 00:05:33,166 --> 00:05:34,766 Whether or not it makes an impact 143 00:05:34,766 --> 00:05:36,900 in terms of carbon capture and storage 144 00:05:36,900 --> 00:05:38,366 and the ease, 145 00:05:38,366 --> 00:05:39,200 I'm not so sure. 146 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:40,100 - Yeah, okay. 147 00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:42,200 - We're seeing a big change right now 148 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,300 in the way that we're capturing from natural gas. 149 00:05:46,300 --> 00:05:49,166 Yeah, you can capture post combustion at a power plant 150 00:05:49,166 --> 00:05:51,633 but increasingly, we're seeing people make hydrogen 151 00:05:51,633 --> 00:05:54,700 out of natural gas and you can separate the CO2 out 152 00:05:54,700 --> 00:05:57,433 before it gets burned and the hydrogen burns clean 153 00:05:57,433 --> 00:06:00,166 and it burns cheap and it burns hot. 154 00:06:00,166 --> 00:06:01,966 All of these are things that we want. 155 00:06:01,966 --> 00:06:05,166 So if you want a clean fuel like hydrogen, 156 00:06:05,166 --> 00:06:08,300 natural gas with carbon capture becomes a very useful option. 157 00:06:08,300 --> 00:06:09,333 - Yeah, that's interesting. 158 00:06:09,333 --> 00:06:11,266 How do we capture from other types of things? 159 00:06:11,266 --> 00:06:12,666 Cement, petrochemicals, 160 00:06:12,666 --> 00:06:16,166 refineries, besides power generation, 161 00:06:16,166 --> 00:06:17,333 how do we go about that? 162 00:06:17,333 --> 00:06:19,666 - You know, in a lot of cases, it's simple separation. 163 00:06:19,666 --> 00:06:22,966 Ethanol, you are putting a capture unit 164 00:06:22,966 --> 00:06:25,466 right on your fermentation system. 165 00:06:25,466 --> 00:06:28,900 I mean, the fermentation of corn produces carbon dioxide. 166 00:06:28,900 --> 00:06:30,566 You capture that, you divert it 167 00:06:30,566 --> 00:06:34,000 to a compression dehydration system 168 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,733 which carbon dioxide is a compressible gas. 169 00:06:36,733 --> 00:06:38,100 So you want, and it's wet 170 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:39,633 when it comes off of fermentation. 171 00:06:39,633 --> 00:06:42,900 So you wanna compress it from atmospheric pressure 172 00:06:42,900 --> 00:06:47,033 to around 1,000 psi. 173 00:06:47,033 --> 00:06:49,833 And, you know, you use ethylene glycol 174 00:06:49,833 --> 00:06:53,600 to knock out water as you go through your compression stages 175 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,533 depending on where you're capturing from 176 00:06:56,533 --> 00:06:59,600 and the engineering of the plant that you're capturing from, 177 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,266 is what is gonna make the difference. 178 00:07:01,266 --> 00:07:02,333 - Okay. 179 00:07:02,333 --> 00:07:03,900 - Twenty years ago, we were just looking 180 00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:06,800 at coal plants for real, maybe gas plants. 181 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,833 Now, we have capture technology for everything. 182 00:07:09,833 --> 00:07:12,266 We are capturing CO2 at steel mills. 183 00:07:12,266 --> 00:07:14,700 We are capturing CO2 at cement plants. 184 00:07:14,700 --> 00:07:17,633 We are capturing CO2 from the air. 185 00:07:17,633 --> 00:07:19,400 From the air, 186 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:20,666 like we did in submarines, 187 00:07:20,666 --> 00:07:23,933 in spacecraft for a very long time. 188 00:07:23,933 --> 00:07:26,000 All of this is now climate relevant. 189 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:27,833 So we've got this new fleet of technologies 190 00:07:27,833 --> 00:07:31,733 that have come out and the costs are going down fast. 191 00:07:31,733 --> 00:07:34,733 In the last decade, the cost have been dropping 50% 192 00:07:34,733 --> 00:07:37,333 and the next decade they're gonna drop another 50%. 193 00:07:37,333 --> 00:07:38,233 [Scott] Yeah. 194 00:07:38,233 --> 00:07:39,866 - It's more about being 195 00:07:39,866 --> 00:07:43,866 an emissions mitigation suite of technologies, 196 00:07:43,866 --> 00:07:47,866 not so much what is the source of the CO2. 197 00:07:47,866 --> 00:07:49,766 So if it's coal plants, 198 00:07:49,766 --> 00:07:53,266 if it's natural gas fired power plants, 199 00:07:53,266 --> 00:07:54,566 if it's cement factories, 200 00:07:54,566 --> 00:07:55,866 if it's ethanol, 201 00:07:55,866 --> 00:07:57,000 all of the above, 202 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,500 we need to be decarbonizing of those point sources. 203 00:07:59,500 --> 00:08:01,133 - So there's a portfolio of sources. 204 00:08:01,133 --> 00:08:02,233 [Sallie] Yeah, absolutely. 205 00:08:02,233 --> 00:08:03,566 - Refineries. Gosh. 206 00:08:03,566 --> 00:08:04,666 Sallie you've got a project going, 207 00:08:04,666 --> 00:08:06,166 talk about that a little bit. 208 00:08:06,166 --> 00:08:09,400 - So, the Illinois Basin Decatur project 209 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,600 was funded by the U.S. Department of Energy 210 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:13,700 through the 211 00:08:13,700 --> 00:08:15,700 Regional Carbon Sequestration Partnership program, 212 00:08:15,700 --> 00:08:18,433 started in 2008, 213 00:08:18,433 --> 00:08:20,800 and just finished up. 214 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:22,966 It demonstrated the full value chain 215 00:08:22,966 --> 00:08:24,433 of carbon capture and storage. 216 00:08:24,433 --> 00:08:26,433 We captured a million tons of carbon dioxide 217 00:08:26,433 --> 00:08:28,166 from ethanol production, 218 00:08:28,166 --> 00:08:31,933 at an Archer Daniels Midland corn processing plant 219 00:08:31,933 --> 00:08:34,433 over a period of three years. 220 00:08:34,433 --> 00:08:39,233 A second project leveraged all the science from that. 221 00:08:39,900 --> 00:08:44,100 And that project started injecting CO2 in 2017, 222 00:08:44,100 --> 00:08:46,066 and is still injecting today. 223 00:08:46,066 --> 00:08:49,300 So all told, there's probably about 4 million tons 224 00:08:49,300 --> 00:08:51,200 of carbon dioxide stored in Decatur. 225 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:52,566 - 4 million tons is a lot. 226 00:08:52,566 --> 00:08:53,666 Is this scalable? 227 00:08:53,666 --> 00:08:55,433 Are we gonna start to see things like this? 228 00:08:55,433 --> 00:08:59,233 - I mean, where we started was individual projects, 229 00:08:59,233 --> 00:09:01,600 regional assessments, you know, 230 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,466 building capacity and proving that we could do this 231 00:09:05,466 --> 00:09:07,233 safely and effectively. 232 00:09:07,233 --> 00:09:08,800 What we're seeing now 233 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,866 is the development of the infrastructure 234 00:09:11,866 --> 00:09:14,200 and the ways that we're going to connect this 235 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,433 so that across the country 236 00:09:16,433 --> 00:09:20,866 we're connecting sources with storage locations. 237 00:09:22,066 --> 00:09:23,733 - We talked a lot about point sources. 238 00:09:24,966 --> 00:09:27,233 You mentioned direct air capture, 239 00:09:27,233 --> 00:09:28,933 the mechanics of it. 240 00:09:28,933 --> 00:09:31,833 You're moving a lot of poor volumes of air 241 00:09:31,833 --> 00:09:33,300 through something in order to scrub out something 242 00:09:33,300 --> 00:09:35,733 that isn't very concentrated in them. 243 00:09:35,733 --> 00:09:37,500 Is that why it's so expensive? 244 00:09:37,500 --> 00:09:38,500 - Exactly. 245 00:09:38,500 --> 00:09:39,500 Direct air capture, 246 00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:41,666 because of the super low concentration in air, 247 00:09:41,666 --> 00:09:43,466 you just have to build it differently. 248 00:09:43,466 --> 00:09:46,033 You can't do the same thing you'd do for a point source. 249 00:09:46,033 --> 00:09:47,466 What you end up having to do 250 00:09:47,466 --> 00:09:49,933 is make a really big air contactor, 251 00:09:49,933 --> 00:09:51,600 'cause you gotta touch a lot of air. 252 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,533 That costs a lot of capital. 253 00:09:53,533 --> 00:09:55,533 And then you have to reconstitute 254 00:09:55,533 --> 00:09:57,400 a lot of solvent or adsorbent, 255 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:58,600 which is also expensive. 256 00:09:58,600 --> 00:09:59,866 - Yeah. - Right? 257 00:09:59,866 --> 00:10:02,800 And most of the energy cost is not electricity, 258 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,133 most of the energy cost is heat. 259 00:10:05,133 --> 00:10:07,533 So you gotta pay for heat, which is its own thing. 260 00:10:07,533 --> 00:10:08,566 - Right. 261 00:10:08,566 --> 00:10:09,966 - So direct air capture is helpful for things 262 00:10:09,966 --> 00:10:12,033 that we have no technology for, 263 00:10:12,033 --> 00:10:15,233 like the use of fertilizer emits greenhouse gases 264 00:10:15,233 --> 00:10:16,833 we're gonna keep using fertilizer. 265 00:10:16,833 --> 00:10:18,366 We don't have an option for that. 266 00:10:18,366 --> 00:10:20,000 Aviation's gonna cost something like 267 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,700 $2,000 a ton or more to abate. 268 00:10:23,700 --> 00:10:26,633 Carbon capture from the air is about $500 a ton now, 269 00:10:26,633 --> 00:10:28,366 so it's just cheaper, right? 270 00:10:28,366 --> 00:10:30,466 And those costs are coming down fast too. 271 00:10:30,466 --> 00:10:33,400 - Yeah, one of the things that we are seeing 272 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,966 is the concentration of these kinds of technologies. 273 00:10:36,966 --> 00:10:39,166 So I think what you're gonna see 274 00:10:39,166 --> 00:10:42,733 is direct air capture infrastructure 275 00:10:42,733 --> 00:10:45,566 located perhaps at a storage site, 276 00:10:45,566 --> 00:10:48,600 or you're capturing from a facility 277 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,333 and you're installing direct air capture 278 00:10:51,333 --> 00:10:54,100 either at the capture end or at the storage end 279 00:10:54,100 --> 00:10:56,166 because you are increasing the capacity 280 00:10:56,166 --> 00:10:57,766 and you have a system to move it. 281 00:10:57,766 --> 00:10:58,800 - Yeah. 282 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,733 Why do we care about capturing and storing CO2? 283 00:11:00,733 --> 00:11:02,066 What's it used for? 284 00:11:02,066 --> 00:11:04,800 - Well, the main use is enhanced oil recovery 285 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,100 where we're using carbon dioxide essentially 286 00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:11,500 as a solvent to help us produce additional oil 287 00:11:11,500 --> 00:11:14,933 from mature oil reservoirs. 288 00:11:14,933 --> 00:11:17,133 And those activities, 289 00:11:17,133 --> 00:11:19,400 depending on the price of oil, 290 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,566 are only limited by the amount of CO2 291 00:11:21,566 --> 00:11:23,200 that is available to them. 292 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,533 - Is the net equation okay on that or? 293 00:11:25,533 --> 00:11:28,066 - I think you need to ask Julio about that. 294 00:11:28,066 --> 00:11:32,433 - You can completely balance the CO2 produced from oil 295 00:11:32,433 --> 00:11:34,066 with the CO2 injection. 296 00:11:34,066 --> 00:11:35,466 That is only a thing recently. 297 00:11:35,466 --> 00:11:38,300 People have only wanted that as a product 298 00:11:38,300 --> 00:11:40,066 in the past few years. 299 00:11:40,066 --> 00:11:41,733 We are also seeing a whole lot of 300 00:11:41,733 --> 00:11:44,633 new uses for carbon dioxide. 301 00:11:44,633 --> 00:11:46,966 One of those is to turn CO2 into concrete, 302 00:11:46,966 --> 00:11:48,600 concrete's the most-used material after water 303 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:49,700 in the world. 304 00:11:49,700 --> 00:11:51,366 We use 30 billion tons of concrete air. 305 00:11:51,366 --> 00:11:53,166 You can put a lot of CO2 into that. 306 00:11:53,166 --> 00:11:55,600 Increasingly, people are also looking to turn CO2 307 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,966 into fuels and chemicals. 308 00:11:57,966 --> 00:12:00,800 So there's a company out there called LanzaJet. 309 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,433 They take the waste CO2 from steel mills 310 00:12:03,433 --> 00:12:05,366 and turns it into jet fuel, 311 00:12:05,366 --> 00:12:06,533 which is pretty cool. 312 00:12:06,533 --> 00:12:09,033 - What's the energy equation on that? 313 00:12:09,033 --> 00:12:12,066 - This is the thing, to do that takes more energy 314 00:12:12,066 --> 00:12:14,466 than was in the fuel to begin with. 315 00:12:14,466 --> 00:12:16,633 But there's a bunch of companies that turn CO2 316 00:12:16,633 --> 00:12:20,900 into everything from vodka to Legos and yoga pants. 317 00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:23,833 Like, and it's nice that we can reimagine a world 318 00:12:23,833 --> 00:12:25,833 made out of this waste product. 319 00:12:25,833 --> 00:12:26,933 - Yeah. 320 00:12:26,933 --> 00:12:30,366 One or two most promising, Sallie, that you've seen. 321 00:12:30,366 --> 00:12:33,533 - I think construction material, wallboard, 322 00:12:33,533 --> 00:12:35,266 things like that, makes a lot of sense 323 00:12:35,266 --> 00:12:37,733 instead of mining that stuff, 324 00:12:37,733 --> 00:12:39,966 and I think cement. 325 00:12:39,966 --> 00:12:41,000 - What about plastics? 326 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,966 Any use coming down the road there? 327 00:12:42,966 --> 00:12:44,200 - Yeah, absolutely. 328 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,333 And a number of companies are looking to make CO2 329 00:12:47,333 --> 00:12:49,033 into precursor chemicals, 330 00:12:49,033 --> 00:12:51,533 things like ethylene and carbon monoxide 331 00:12:51,533 --> 00:12:52,933 or methanol 332 00:12:52,933 --> 00:12:54,833 and then those get turned into plastics. 333 00:12:54,833 --> 00:12:56,133 I'm gonna add, you know, 334 00:12:56,133 --> 00:12:57,733 we're not gonna balance the climate books 335 00:12:57,733 --> 00:12:59,966 on yoga pants, right? 336 00:12:59,966 --> 00:13:02,300 The entire plastics market in the world 337 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:04,433 is about a billion tons a year of stuff. 338 00:13:04,433 --> 00:13:05,366 So you can maybe get 339 00:13:05,366 --> 00:13:07,233 a hundred million tons of CO2 into that. 340 00:13:07,233 --> 00:13:09,566 Okay, it's not that much. 341 00:13:09,566 --> 00:13:12,233 The entire concrete business is 30 billion tons, 342 00:13:12,233 --> 00:13:14,066 you can probably get a billion tons of CO2 343 00:13:14,066 --> 00:13:15,800 into that, maybe two. 344 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:16,766 That's it. 345 00:13:16,766 --> 00:13:18,833 It's real and it counts. 346 00:13:18,833 --> 00:13:20,666 But we know the arithmetic. 347 00:13:20,666 --> 00:13:23,333 We emit 40 billion tons of CO2. 348 00:13:23,333 --> 00:13:26,200 We're gonna have to stop emitting in a bunch of places. 349 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,700 And a bunch of that CO2 is just gonna be stored. 350 00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:30,600 - So let's talk about storage. 351 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:31,933 How do we do that? 352 00:13:31,933 --> 00:13:33,300 - We start with the geology. 353 00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:35,900 One type of rock, for example, sandstone, 354 00:13:35,900 --> 00:13:39,833 has pore space in between the grains of sand 355 00:13:39,833 --> 00:13:41,433 that make up the sandstone, 356 00:13:41,433 --> 00:13:44,500 and then that is capped or sealed 357 00:13:44,500 --> 00:13:47,566 with something much denser like a shale. 358 00:13:47,566 --> 00:13:49,733 So you look for sedimentary basins 359 00:13:49,733 --> 00:13:52,700 where you have that kind of package of rocks. 360 00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:54,333 You characterize it, 361 00:13:54,333 --> 00:13:57,100 try to make sure there are no faults and fractures. 362 00:13:57,100 --> 00:13:59,800 After you've captured your carbon dioxide, 363 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,633 ship that via a pipeline, 364 00:14:01,633 --> 00:14:03,666 you drill wells in the subsurface 365 00:14:03,666 --> 00:14:07,633 and then you basically inject that carbon dioxide 366 00:14:07,633 --> 00:14:10,266 through a well into a reservoir, 367 00:14:10,266 --> 00:14:11,600 into a rock reservoir. 368 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,600 - And those are filled mostly with? 369 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:14,733 - Brine, heavy brine, 370 00:14:14,733 --> 00:14:16,033 - Salt water. - salt water. 371 00:14:16,033 --> 00:14:17,066 - Old oceans, right? 372 00:14:17,066 --> 00:14:18,400 - Yeah, and so you're talking about 373 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,400 water that's not potable. 374 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,300 And so carbon dioxide, 375 00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:25,133 some of it goes into solution, 376 00:14:25,133 --> 00:14:27,733 it dissolves into the brine itself. 377 00:14:27,733 --> 00:14:31,900 Some of it exists as discreet CO2, 378 00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:34,666 just pure CO2 in its liquid form. 379 00:14:34,666 --> 00:14:36,200 - So kind of trapped in its phase. 380 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:37,733 - Yeah, trapped in its phase 381 00:14:37,733 --> 00:14:39,933 and it gets stuck in those pore spaces. 382 00:14:39,933 --> 00:14:41,433 - And people have to remember 383 00:14:41,433 --> 00:14:43,666 what you're putting underground is not a gas, 384 00:14:43,666 --> 00:14:46,466 it works like oil in the subsurface. 385 00:14:46,466 --> 00:14:49,666 So any rocks that would normally trap and store 386 00:14:49,666 --> 00:14:52,200 hydrocarbons will do the same thing here. 387 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:53,266 [Scott] Is that safe? 388 00:14:53,266 --> 00:14:54,133 Is it? 389 00:14:54,133 --> 00:14:55,233 - Yeah, absolutely. 390 00:14:55,233 --> 00:14:59,233 I mean, here's how we know that you can store things 391 00:14:59,233 --> 00:15:01,533 in the earth for hundreds of millions of years, 392 00:15:01,533 --> 00:15:03,366 because we can produce oil 393 00:15:03,366 --> 00:15:05,700 that has been in the earth for hundreds of millions of years 394 00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:09,300 and we are creating a storage complex 395 00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:13,600 that takes everything we know about oil and gas production 396 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,533 and turns it around to make the safest 397 00:15:15,533 --> 00:15:17,133 storage container that we can. 398 00:15:17,133 --> 00:15:19,766 - Yeah. There's some CO2 pipelines around. 399 00:15:19,766 --> 00:15:22,333 Where are those and why do they exist today? 400 00:15:22,333 --> 00:15:25,066 - So there's about 5,000 miles 401 00:15:25,066 --> 00:15:27,500 of CO2 pipeline in the United States. 402 00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:30,433 The majority of that is in the West. 403 00:15:30,433 --> 00:15:34,866 There's also significant pipelines from Canada, 404 00:15:34,866 --> 00:15:35,933 North Dakota, 405 00:15:35,933 --> 00:15:39,033 but mostly I would say out west and the southeast. 406 00:15:39,033 --> 00:15:40,033 [Scott] Yeah. 407 00:15:40,033 --> 00:15:41,566 - We are in fact seeing 408 00:15:41,566 --> 00:15:45,566 purely privately financed pipelines come into fruition. 409 00:15:45,566 --> 00:15:48,633 That is the consequence of policy changes in the U.S. 410 00:15:48,633 --> 00:15:52,800 That tax credit 45Q pays people to store CO2. 411 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,666 And these pipelines that are springing up 412 00:15:54,666 --> 00:15:56,200 around the Midwest, 413 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,833 an aggregate is like 30 million tons of CO2. 414 00:15:58,833 --> 00:16:00,400 It's a big number, 415 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,133 and we're glad to see this stuff happening. 416 00:16:03,133 --> 00:16:04,400 - Right, right. 417 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,400 Five thousand miles sounds like a lot 418 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,600 but compare that to natural gas pipelines. 419 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:10,666 Any numbers there? 420 00:16:10,666 --> 00:16:12,233 - Yeah, the natural gas pipeline network 421 00:16:12,233 --> 00:16:14,400 of the United States is two million miles. 422 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:15,800 So, a little bigger. 423 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,100 And analysis has shown that to 424 00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:22,066 get all the stuff we care about with carbon capture in the U.S., 425 00:16:22,066 --> 00:16:25,400 we need somewhere between 20,000 and 60,000 miles. 426 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:26,900 But it's not ridiculous growth. 427 00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:28,566 Like, it's totally in bounds. 428 00:16:28,566 --> 00:16:30,466 - It's not two million miles. 429 00:16:30,466 --> 00:16:31,600 - Yeah, it's not two million. 430 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,200 Now, these aren't-- these are pipelines. 431 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,566 CO2 is corrosive. 432 00:16:36,566 --> 00:16:38,566 You can't just put it in a natural gas pipeline, right? 433 00:16:38,566 --> 00:16:40,133 - Well, it's a mix of stuff. 434 00:16:40,133 --> 00:16:42,533 The CO2 plus water is what's corrosive, 435 00:16:42,533 --> 00:16:44,300 CO2 on its own isn't. 436 00:16:44,300 --> 00:16:46,066 It has to be pressure rated. 437 00:16:46,066 --> 00:16:47,866 You want certain kinds of metals in the pipeline. 438 00:16:47,866 --> 00:16:49,600 You don't wanna use cast iron, 439 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,500 but you can use some of the existing infrastructure. 440 00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:53,766 But not enough. 441 00:16:53,766 --> 00:16:55,533 We're gonna need to build a bunch of pipelines. 442 00:16:55,533 --> 00:16:57,833 - We don't like building pipelines. 443 00:16:57,833 --> 00:17:00,166 We seem to be opposed to building pipelines. 444 00:17:00,166 --> 00:17:02,566 - People love to hate a pipeline. 445 00:17:02,566 --> 00:17:04,300 [Scott] How are we gonna do it? 446 00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:05,266 - So one of the-- 447 00:17:05,266 --> 00:17:06,366 - Can we do it? 448 00:17:06,366 --> 00:17:08,100 - Yeah, so one of the things that's been looked at 449 00:17:08,100 --> 00:17:11,900 and has been suggested is specifically 450 00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:15,833 permitted corridors that are developed 451 00:17:15,833 --> 00:17:19,133 by the federal government where you're aggregating 452 00:17:19,133 --> 00:17:22,166 multiple types of pipelines. 453 00:17:22,166 --> 00:17:25,000 There are CO2 pipeline companies. 454 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:30,566 The challenge there is how flexible you are 455 00:17:30,566 --> 00:17:32,700 in the routing of your pipeline 456 00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:37,300 and whether or not you may invoke eminent domain. 457 00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:40,500 And what we see in the Midwest 458 00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:43,200 is that you have people who, 459 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,366 their identity is wrapped up in that land, 460 00:17:45,366 --> 00:17:48,133 their legacy, their wealth and their stewardship. 461 00:17:48,133 --> 00:17:49,400 I mean, they feel very strongly 462 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:50,866 about the stewardship of that. 463 00:17:50,866 --> 00:17:55,100 And so it's a really challenging 464 00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:57,800 social construct that you have to look at. 465 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,233 - Similar look to building big power lines. 466 00:17:59,233 --> 00:18:01,266 I mean, should we be scared of CO2 pipeline? 467 00:18:01,266 --> 00:18:03,633 Should the public be scared of these things? 468 00:18:03,633 --> 00:18:04,566 - No. 469 00:18:04,566 --> 00:18:06,833 CO2 puts out fires. 470 00:18:06,833 --> 00:18:09,533 Like, it is something our body makes. 471 00:18:09,533 --> 00:18:13,133 It is the most inert benign substance like around, 472 00:18:13,133 --> 00:18:15,333 you know, it's energy content 473 00:18:15,333 --> 00:18:17,033 is the same energy content as water. 474 00:18:17,033 --> 00:18:19,633 Like, it is not like an oil pipeline 475 00:18:19,633 --> 00:18:22,433 or a gas pipeline or hydrogen pipeline 476 00:18:22,433 --> 00:18:25,133 or an ethylene glycol pipeline, like it is, 477 00:18:25,133 --> 00:18:27,533 it is a pretty benign substance. 478 00:18:27,533 --> 00:18:30,966 So the risks of these things is actually quite low. 479 00:18:30,966 --> 00:18:32,000 - Yeah. 480 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,566 - There are reasonable concerns that people have 481 00:18:34,566 --> 00:18:36,700 and you gotta address those concerns. 482 00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:38,333 - One of the big things that I hear 483 00:18:38,333 --> 00:18:41,133 when I talk to people is 484 00:18:41,133 --> 00:18:44,133 why can't we have more safety valves, 485 00:18:44,133 --> 00:18:49,200 or more safety monitoring equipment at shorter intervals? 486 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,100 And I don't think that those are 487 00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:54,800 unreasonable questions or demands. 488 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,600 - We've built two million miles of other pipelines. 489 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,566 We've done this. 490 00:19:00,566 --> 00:19:01,866 - Right. 491 00:19:01,866 --> 00:19:03,700 The fact is, at some point or another, 492 00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:04,933 we're gonna have to bite the bullet. 493 00:19:04,933 --> 00:19:07,300 We have to build infrastructure for the energy transition. 494 00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:08,966 It's not just CO2 pipelines, 495 00:19:08,966 --> 00:19:11,533 it's transmission lines and ports 496 00:19:11,533 --> 00:19:13,533 and charging stations and fueling stations 497 00:19:13,533 --> 00:19:14,800 and all these things. 498 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,533 So we have to get into a way of saying 499 00:19:18,533 --> 00:19:20,400 yes to projects like this. 500 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:21,966 'Cause otherwise we are just not gonna hit 501 00:19:21,966 --> 00:19:24,133 our climate targets, we're just not. 502 00:19:24,133 --> 00:19:26,133 - And I just wanna make the point 503 00:19:26,133 --> 00:19:29,133 about the energy transition and that is that, 504 00:19:29,133 --> 00:19:31,833 we're at the beginning of the energy transition. 505 00:19:31,833 --> 00:19:34,400 We have not actually accomplished 506 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:35,633 an energy transition. 507 00:19:35,633 --> 00:19:41,066 And so all of this willingness to do hard things 508 00:19:41,066 --> 00:19:43,366 and to have these complicated projects 509 00:19:43,366 --> 00:19:44,733 like that's all part of 510 00:19:44,733 --> 00:19:47,200 what we have to be willing to take on. 511 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,400 - I mean, everything we're talking about, it's all money. 512 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,100 How does this happen? 513 00:19:52,766 --> 00:19:54,766 - Let's start by saying in some markets 514 00:19:54,766 --> 00:19:56,033 and some parts of the world, 515 00:19:56,033 --> 00:19:57,566 you won't do carbon capture. 516 00:19:57,566 --> 00:19:59,233 Japan and South Korea, 517 00:19:59,233 --> 00:20:01,666 they just won't have places to store CO2. 518 00:20:01,666 --> 00:20:05,600 But this gets paid for because you care about climate. 519 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,366 That's all it's for. 520 00:20:07,366 --> 00:20:11,466 As it becomes urgent to move forward, 521 00:20:11,466 --> 00:20:13,800 you see that carbon capture is cost competitive 522 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,466 in a bunch of markets, in a bunch of applications. 523 00:20:16,466 --> 00:20:19,600 - And what countries are the most promising? 524 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,400 - Norway has been at the forefront of this space. 525 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,400 They've been storing carbon dioxide 526 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,266 under the North Sea for, since 1995. 527 00:20:29,266 --> 00:20:31,433 Australia is a leader in this space-- 528 00:20:31,433 --> 00:20:32,633 - But these are rich world, 529 00:20:32,633 --> 00:20:35,066 does it make sense in emerging developing world? 530 00:20:35,066 --> 00:20:36,700 - I think it makes sense for everybody 531 00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:39,500 to look at all options available to them. 532 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:41,266 - It is fair to ask 533 00:20:41,266 --> 00:20:43,400 if for some developing nations 534 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,400 carbon capture should be a priority, 535 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:50,200 and because carbon capture and storage has additional cost, 536 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,733 for some nations, it's not practical 537 00:20:52,733 --> 00:20:54,233 for them to do that today. 538 00:20:54,233 --> 00:20:56,633 I'm thinking about a nation like South Africa 539 00:20:56,633 --> 00:20:58,600 or Nigeria or Mexico, 540 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,466 maybe that's not their priority. 541 00:21:00,466 --> 00:21:02,166 In a place like India, 542 00:21:02,166 --> 00:21:04,666 it may not be a priority today, but it will be soon. 543 00:21:04,666 --> 00:21:06,633 So they should start the work of planning 544 00:21:06,633 --> 00:21:08,166 the geological assessments, 545 00:21:08,166 --> 00:21:09,500 looking at technology options, 546 00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:10,800 thinking about how to finance it. 547 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,233 They should start that now. 548 00:21:12,233 --> 00:21:14,100 - But I'd just like to add to that. 549 00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:19,266 It's not like those countries are completely unaware, 550 00:21:19,266 --> 00:21:22,466 or completely disengaged from the conversation. 551 00:21:22,466 --> 00:21:27,733 Obviously they have much, much more immediate challenges 552 00:21:27,733 --> 00:21:28,933 that they're facing. 553 00:21:28,933 --> 00:21:31,300 But I think that there are certain countries 554 00:21:31,300 --> 00:21:33,000 that have done the, for example, 555 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,600 the geologic assessment of what the potential 556 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,333 for carbon storage is onshore and offshore. 557 00:21:38,333 --> 00:21:42,966 - The U.S., Europe could do more in terms of engaging 558 00:21:42,966 --> 00:21:44,633 these parts of the world. 559 00:21:44,633 --> 00:21:46,200 I would like to see something that looks 560 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,866 like a Marshall plan in which 561 00:21:48,866 --> 00:21:52,333 instead of just giving money to countries for aid, 562 00:21:52,333 --> 00:21:54,200 we give money to domestic companies 563 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,100 to deploy in those other countries. 564 00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:58,633 That is exactly what Japan does today. 565 00:21:58,633 --> 00:22:01,833 They are trying to invest in places around the world 566 00:22:01,833 --> 00:22:04,066 where they can bring carbon capture into them 567 00:22:04,066 --> 00:22:05,566 to benefit their industry. 568 00:22:05,566 --> 00:22:08,866 And that industrial policy has got a new life these days. 569 00:22:08,866 --> 00:22:10,633 - You mentioned earlier Julio, 570 00:22:10,633 --> 00:22:13,600 CO2, 40 million tons now, not that much. 571 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,700 A thousand fold increase I think you said, plus or minus. 572 00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:18,266 Is it possible? 573 00:22:18,266 --> 00:22:21,766 - So a hundred times scale up is super hard. 574 00:22:21,766 --> 00:22:24,000 It is no harder than the other super hard things 575 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,233 we have to do in the energy transition. 576 00:22:26,233 --> 00:22:28,633 It is no harder than tripling the electric grid. 577 00:22:28,633 --> 00:22:32,966 It is no harder than a 400 fold scale up in clean hydrogen. 578 00:22:32,966 --> 00:22:35,700 It is no harder than hundreds and hundreds 579 00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:38,000 of nuclear power plants all over the world. 580 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,800 All of these things are hard. 581 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,900 It is just one of the incredibly hard things we need to do 582 00:22:42,900 --> 00:22:44,633 if we're serious about climate. 583 00:22:44,633 --> 00:22:48,166 But there's nothing in the finance or the physics 584 00:22:48,166 --> 00:22:50,666 or the engineering that can't be done. 585 00:22:50,666 --> 00:22:51,733 - Right. 586 00:22:51,733 --> 00:22:54,533 Closing thoughts, you know, 587 00:22:54,533 --> 00:22:57,733 let's pretend like you're a 588 00:22:57,733 --> 00:22:59,933 benevolent dictator for the day. 589 00:22:59,933 --> 00:23:01,866 - Mmm, love where this is going. 590 00:23:01,866 --> 00:23:03,033 [laughing] 591 00:23:03,033 --> 00:23:05,233 - What should be our plan of action 592 00:23:05,233 --> 00:23:06,833 for carbon capture? 593 00:23:06,833 --> 00:23:08,533 What would you do Sallie? 594 00:23:08,533 --> 00:23:11,966 - I would force a balanced portfolio. 595 00:23:11,966 --> 00:23:17,000 I would say, how do we use everything that we have 596 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,066 for the greatest benefit 597 00:23:18,066 --> 00:23:20,000 for the greatest number of people? 598 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:26,700 And that looks like what works best where, 599 00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:32,066 how do we deploy at micro scales and macro scales. 600 00:23:33,366 --> 00:23:36,533 I love this idea of trade agreements, 601 00:23:36,533 --> 00:23:40,666 or you know some sort of international policies 602 00:23:40,666 --> 00:23:48,600 that allow us to bring other countries along, and, 603 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,166 but I would also solve the local problems. 604 00:23:52,166 --> 00:23:55,700 And I really believe at the end of the day 605 00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:58,966 having hard conversations is the path to get there. 606 00:23:58,966 --> 00:24:00,300 - Same question. 607 00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:04,233 - Later on, I will hand you my 70-point plan on what to do, 608 00:24:04,233 --> 00:24:06,666 but if I have one thing to do, 609 00:24:06,666 --> 00:24:08,500 infrastructure is the thing we missing. 610 00:24:08,500 --> 00:24:11,866 For the next 30 years, every week is infrastructure week. 611 00:24:11,866 --> 00:24:13,866 In the United States and around the world, 612 00:24:13,866 --> 00:24:15,266 we need to build ports. 613 00:24:15,266 --> 00:24:17,700 We need to build transmission power lines. 614 00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:19,733 We need to build hydrogen fueling stations 615 00:24:19,733 --> 00:24:21,066 and CO2 pipelines. 616 00:24:21,066 --> 00:24:23,733 We need a lot of infrastructure we don't have. 617 00:24:23,733 --> 00:24:26,566 If we are clever and inventive 618 00:24:26,566 --> 00:24:29,000 and generous in how we do that, 619 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,233 the global south can benefit in a big way 620 00:24:31,233 --> 00:24:33,200 and the world will benefit from that. 621 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,700 And we will see geopolitical rearrangements 622 00:24:35,700 --> 00:24:37,800 from such a thing if we're smart about it. 623 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,400 - Yeah, great stuff. 624 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:40,366 Thanks. 625 00:24:40,366 --> 00:24:41,166 It's been great. 626 00:24:41,166 --> 00:24:42,600 - Thanks Scott. - Great dialogue. 627 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:43,466 Thank you. 628 00:24:44,833 --> 00:24:47,033 [Scott] Our guests said that initial projects 629 00:24:47,033 --> 00:24:50,066 to capture CO2 at coal power plants 630 00:24:50,066 --> 00:24:52,100 have not been so successful. 631 00:24:52,100 --> 00:24:54,133 We've gotten better capture results 632 00:24:54,133 --> 00:24:56,433 at ethanol and fertilizer plants 633 00:24:56,433 --> 00:24:59,533 that produce a pure stream of CO2. 634 00:25:00,766 --> 00:25:02,933 Other pilot projects are capturing CO2 635 00:25:02,933 --> 00:25:04,800 directly from the air, 636 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,866 though at a high price. 637 00:25:06,866 --> 00:25:10,033 CO2 emission sites are widely distributed 638 00:25:10,033 --> 00:25:12,666 so we'll need pipelines to reach them. 639 00:25:12,666 --> 00:25:17,400 There are currently 5,000 miles of CO2 pipelines in the U.S. 640 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,400 Permitting new ones will be challenging. 641 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,900 Storing the CO2 may be more straightforward. 642 00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:25,166 Oil and gas has been trapped 643 00:25:25,166 --> 00:25:28,766 in subsurface reservoirs for millions of years. 644 00:25:28,766 --> 00:25:31,800 Research has shown that injected CO2 645 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,100 will remain there as well. 646 00:25:34,100 --> 00:25:36,333 These experts agree that new infrastructure 647 00:25:36,333 --> 00:25:40,133 is vital to connect the places that could capture CO2 648 00:25:40,133 --> 00:25:42,666 to the places that could store it. 649 00:25:42,666 --> 00:25:52,666 ♪ ♪ 650 00:25:52,666 --> 00:26:02,733 ♪ ♪ 651 00:26:02,733 --> 00:26:12,433 ♪ ♪ 652 00:26:12,433 --> 00:26:13,866 [Narrator] Funding for "Energy Switch" 653 00:26:13,866 --> 00:26:16,900 was provided in part by 654 00:26:16,900 --> 00:26:19,466 the University of Texas at Austin, 655 00:26:19,466 --> 00:26:21,933 leading research in energy and the environment 656 00:26:21,933 --> 00:26:23,800 for a better tomorrow. 657 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,300 What starts here changes the world. 658 00:26:27,566 --> 00:26:31,066 And by EarthX, an international nonprofit 659 00:26:31,066 --> 00:26:33,733 working towards a more sustainable future. 660 00:26:33,733 --> 00:26:36,400 See more at earthx.org.