WEBVTT 00:00.766 --> 00:02.866 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% [Scott] Coming up on "Energy Switch," 00:02.866 --> 00:05.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% we'll talk about carbon capture and storage. 00:06.366 --> 00:07.466 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% - If you care about climate, 00:07.466 --> 00:09.500 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% you should care about carbon, period. 00:09.500 --> 00:12.633 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Twenty years ago, we were just looking at coal plants for real, 00:12.633 --> 00:14.200 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% maybe gas plants. 00:14.200 --> 00:16.966 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Now we have capture technology for everything 00:16.966 --> 00:19.966 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and the costs are going down fast. 00:19.966 --> 00:22.000 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% - It's more about being an 00:22.000 --> 00:26.266 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% emissions mitigation suite of technologies. 00:26.266 --> 00:27.833 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% So if it's cement factories, 00:27.833 --> 00:30.266 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% if it's ethanol, all of the above, 00:30.266 --> 00:33.300 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% we need to be decarbonizing those point sources. 00:33.833 --> 00:35.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% [Scott] Next on "Energy Switch," 00:35.833 --> 00:38.566 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% carbon capture and storage. 00:40.466 --> 00:41.700 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% [Narrator] Funding for "Energy Switch" 00:41.700 --> 00:44.833 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% was provided in part by 00:44.833 --> 00:47.333 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% the University of Texas at Austin, 00:47.333 --> 00:49.833 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% leading research in energy and the environment 00:49.833 --> 00:51.633 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% for a better tomorrow. 00:51.633 --> 00:54.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% What starts here changes the world. 00:55.400 --> 00:58.966 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And by EarthX, an international nonprofit 00:58.966 --> 01:01.733 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% working towards a more sustainable future. 01:01.733 --> 01:04.566 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% See more at earthx.org. 01:04.900 --> 01:06.266 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% [upbeat music] 01:06.266 --> 01:07.433 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% - I'm Scott Tinker, 01:07.433 --> 01:09.566 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% and I'm an energy scientist. 01:09.566 --> 01:11.200 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% I work in the field, 01:11.200 --> 01:12.300 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% lead research, 01:12.300 --> 01:14.066 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% speak around the world, 01:14.066 --> 01:15.133 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% write articles, 01:15.133 --> 01:18.066 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% and make films about energy. 01:18.066 --> 01:20.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% This show brings together leading experts 01:20.766 --> 01:23.766 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% on vital topics in energy and climate. 01:23.766 --> 01:25.633 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% They may have different perspectives, 01:25.633 --> 01:28.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% but my goal is to learn, and illuminate, 01:28.600 --> 01:31.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and bring diverging views together towards solutions. 01:32.766 --> 01:35.266 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% Welcome to the "Energy Switch." 01:37.100 --> 01:39.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% One solution to reducing our carbon emissions 01:39.766 --> 01:41.166 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% is to capture them 01:41.166 --> 01:43.133 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% and store them underground. 01:43.133 --> 01:46.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% There are challenges in all steps of this process. 01:46.200 --> 01:50.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% How to capture the CO2 at energy and industrial facilities, 01:50.666 --> 01:53.033 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% how to build the pipelines to move it, 01:53.033 --> 01:54.766 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% where to store it 01:54.766 --> 01:56.666 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% and how to pay for it. 01:56.666 --> 01:58.500 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% But there are many projects 01:58.500 --> 02:00.266 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% now in the early stages 02:00.266 --> 02:02.666 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% beginning to address these issues. 02:03.066 --> 02:06.166 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% I'll talk about these with... 02:06.166 --> 02:07.666 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Sallie Greenberg. 02:07.666 --> 02:10.033 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% She's the Principal Scientist for Energy and Minerals 02:10.033 --> 02:12.700 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% at the Illinois State Geological Survey, 02:12.700 --> 02:15.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% piloting a carbon capture and storage project 02:15.300 --> 02:17.766 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% at Illinois ethanol plants. 02:18.400 --> 02:21.900 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Julio Friedmann is the Chief Scientist at Carbon Direct, 02:21.900 --> 02:23.833 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% a carbon management company, 02:23.833 --> 02:25.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% formerly with the U.S. Department of Energy 02:25.766 --> 02:27.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and Columbia University. 02:28.433 --> 02:30.666 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% In this episode of "Energy Switch," 02:30.666 --> 02:32.633 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Carbon Capture and Storage. 02:33.466 --> 02:34.766 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% - It's great to have you both here. 02:34.766 --> 02:37.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And we're starting off with why. 02:37.500 --> 02:39.833 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% What do we care about capturing and storing CO2? 02:39.833 --> 02:41.233 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Why does it matter? 02:41.233 --> 02:42.333 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% - If you care about climate 02:42.333 --> 02:44.433 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% you should care about carbon, period. 02:44.433 --> 02:46.333 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% The math is in, 02:46.333 --> 02:48.500 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% we can do some things like electrification 02:48.500 --> 02:50.133 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% and renewables and nuclear, 02:50.133 --> 02:51.900 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% but there's a bunch of things 02:51.900 --> 02:53.733 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% where we cannot do fuel switching 02:53.733 --> 02:55.666 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% where we just make emissions. 02:55.666 --> 02:59.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% It's about one seventh, about 14% of climate 02:59.966 --> 03:03.200 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% can really be best addressed with carbon capture. 03:03.200 --> 03:04.700 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% - Okay. 03:04.700 --> 03:05.866 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% Agree? 03:05.866 --> 03:06.800 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% - I agree. 03:06.800 --> 03:09.500 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% I think we have safe, effective 03:09.500 --> 03:11.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% demonstrated technologies that allow us 03:11.866 --> 03:14.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% to remove significant amounts of carbon dioxide 03:14.633 --> 03:17.066 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% from the system 03:17.066 --> 03:19.133 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% and we need to deploy it now. 03:19.133 --> 03:20.066 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% - Yeah. 03:20.066 --> 03:21.400 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Well, let's talk about it. 03:21.400 --> 03:23.366 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% There's lots of components to it. 03:23.366 --> 03:26.133 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% You know, capture is the first part. 03:26.133 --> 03:27.966 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% Coal plants, 03:27.966 --> 03:30.166 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% these are the big emitters. 03:30.166 --> 03:31.900 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% How do we go about doing that? 03:31.900 --> 03:33.800 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% - Basically what you need to do 03:33.800 --> 03:36.266 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% is separate out the carbon dioxide 03:36.266 --> 03:38.866 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% from everything else that's in the emission stream, 03:38.866 --> 03:40.500 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% which is typically, you know, 03:40.500 --> 03:43.766 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% somewhere between seven to 30% carbon dioxide. 03:43.766 --> 03:46.100 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% So you need either a membrane 03:46.100 --> 03:48.333 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% which is a physical separation mechanism 03:48.333 --> 03:51.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% or an aiming or a chemical separation. 03:51.500 --> 03:54.700 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% So that what you end up with at the end of the day 03:54.700 --> 03:56.433 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% is pure carbon dioxide. 03:56.433 --> 03:57.433 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% - Okay. 03:57.433 --> 03:59.800 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% You got this stream going up a stack 03:59.800 --> 04:02.033 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and you're grabbing the CO2 outta that somehow. 04:02.033 --> 04:04.100 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Does it make sense at coal plants? 04:04.100 --> 04:05.433 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% - There are two places in the world 04:05.433 --> 04:07.400 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% where we do this from a coal fired power plant. 04:07.400 --> 04:09.733 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% One in Canada, one in Texas. 04:09.733 --> 04:11.800 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% But otherwise we're doing it from stuff like 04:11.800 --> 04:15.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% natural gas refineries or hydrogen facilities, 04:15.266 --> 04:17.200 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% mostly from industrial sites. 04:17.200 --> 04:19.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So today there's about 27 plants 04:19.166 --> 04:22.833 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% around the world capturing about 46 million tons of CO2. 04:22.833 --> 04:24.933 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And we have injected something on the order 04:24.933 --> 04:27.466 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% of 500 million tons of CO2 in total, 04:27.466 --> 04:28.700 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% so we know how to do this. 04:28.700 --> 04:30.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - So 46 million tons per year they're captured? 04:30.400 --> 04:31.466 align:left position:42.5% line:83% size:47.5% - Yeah. - Okay. 04:31.466 --> 04:34.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And so you said 46 million tons. 04:34.633 --> 04:37.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Just for scale, how much do humans emit every year? 04:37.900 --> 04:40.633 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - We do 46 million tons of CO2 globally. 04:40.633 --> 04:44.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Global CO2 emissions are about 40 billion tons. 04:44.100 --> 04:46.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So we're doing 1/1,000th of that today 04:46.833 --> 04:49.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and that's one of the big challenges with carbon capture. 04:49.433 --> 04:51.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It's a big prize, but we gotta scale it up a lot. 04:51.633 --> 04:53.600 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - Yeah, so let's talk about gas then. 04:53.600 --> 04:56.466 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% Natural gas is growing. 04:56.466 --> 04:59.433 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% It's got some benefits to capture. 04:59.433 --> 05:01.600 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Talk about it a little bit. 05:01.600 --> 05:03.133 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% - You know, the biggest cost 05:03.133 --> 05:05.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% associated with capture is the separation. 05:05.966 --> 05:07.400 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% It's not the capture. 05:07.400 --> 05:11.666 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% If you capture from ethanol, it's a hundred or it's 99.9% CO2 05:11.666 --> 05:12.766 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% and some water. 05:12.766 --> 05:15.166 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% It's very easy to separate that out 05:15.166 --> 05:17.800 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% and you have a pure stream of CO2. 05:17.800 --> 05:20.300 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% So the capture cost there is low. 05:20.300 --> 05:23.766 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% But when you are capturing either from coal or natural gas, 05:23.766 --> 05:26.666 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% you still have that high separation cost. 05:26.666 --> 05:29.766 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% So gas burns cleaner obviously. 05:29.766 --> 05:31.166 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% So you have less particulate matter, 05:31.166 --> 05:33.166 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% that helps us in other ways. 05:33.166 --> 05:34.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Whether or not it makes an impact 05:34.766 --> 05:36.900 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% in terms of carbon capture and storage 05:36.900 --> 05:38.366 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% and the ease, 05:38.366 --> 05:39.200 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% I'm not so sure. 05:39.200 --> 05:40.100 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% - Yeah, okay. 05:40.100 --> 05:42.200 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - We're seeing a big change right now 05:42.200 --> 05:46.300 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% in the way that we're capturing from natural gas. 05:46.300 --> 05:49.166 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Yeah, you can capture post combustion at a power plant 05:49.166 --> 05:51.633 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% but increasingly, we're seeing people make hydrogen 05:51.633 --> 05:54.700 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% out of natural gas and you can separate the CO2 out 05:54.700 --> 05:57.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% before it gets burned and the hydrogen burns clean 05:57.433 --> 06:00.166 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and it burns cheap and it burns hot. 06:00.166 --> 06:01.966 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% All of these are things that we want. 06:01.966 --> 06:05.166 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% So if you want a clean fuel like hydrogen, 06:05.166 --> 06:08.300 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% natural gas with carbon capture becomes a very useful option. 06:08.300 --> 06:09.333 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% - Yeah, that's interesting. 06:09.333 --> 06:11.266 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% How do we capture from other types of things? 06:11.266 --> 06:12.666 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% Cement, petrochemicals, 06:12.666 --> 06:16.166 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% refineries, besides power generation, 06:16.166 --> 06:17.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% how do we go about that? 06:17.333 --> 06:19.666 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% - You know, in a lot of cases, it's simple separation. 06:19.666 --> 06:22.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Ethanol, you are putting a capture unit 06:22.966 --> 06:25.466 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% right on your fermentation system. 06:25.466 --> 06:28.900 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I mean, the fermentation of corn produces carbon dioxide. 06:28.900 --> 06:30.566 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% You capture that, you divert it 06:30.566 --> 06:34.000 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% to a compression dehydration system 06:34.000 --> 06:36.733 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% which carbon dioxide is a compressible gas. 06:36.733 --> 06:38.100 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% So you want, and it's wet 06:38.100 --> 06:39.633 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% when it comes off of fermentation. 06:39.633 --> 06:42.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So you wanna compress it from atmospheric pressure 06:42.900 --> 06:47.033 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% to around 1,000 psi. 06:47.033 --> 06:49.833 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And, you know, you use ethylene glycol 06:49.833 --> 06:53.600 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% to knock out water as you go through your compression stages 06:53.600 --> 06:56.533 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% depending on where you're capturing from 06:56.533 --> 06:59.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and the engineering of the plant that you're capturing from, 06:59.600 --> 07:01.266 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% is what is gonna make the difference. 07:01.266 --> 07:02.333 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% - Okay. 07:02.333 --> 07:03.900 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - Twenty years ago, we were just looking 07:03.900 --> 07:06.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% at coal plants for real, maybe gas plants. 07:06.800 --> 07:09.833 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Now, we have capture technology for everything. 07:09.833 --> 07:12.266 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% We are capturing CO2 at steel mills. 07:12.266 --> 07:14.700 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% We are capturing CO2 at cement plants. 07:14.700 --> 07:17.633 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% We are capturing CO2 from the air. 07:17.633 --> 07:19.400 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% From the air, 07:19.400 --> 07:20.666 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% like we did in submarines, 07:20.666 --> 07:23.933 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% in spacecraft for a very long time. 07:23.933 --> 07:26.000 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% All of this is now climate relevant. 07:26.000 --> 07:27.833 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% So we've got this new fleet of technologies 07:27.833 --> 07:31.733 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% that have come out and the costs are going down fast. 07:31.733 --> 07:34.733 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% In the last decade, the cost have been dropping 50% 07:34.733 --> 07:37.333 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and the next decade they're gonna drop another 50%. 07:37.333 --> 07:38.233 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [Scott] Yeah. 07:38.233 --> 07:39.866 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% - It's more about being 07:39.866 --> 07:43.866 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% an emissions mitigation suite of technologies, 07:43.866 --> 07:47.866 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% not so much what is the source of the CO2. 07:47.866 --> 07:49.766 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% So if it's coal plants, 07:49.766 --> 07:53.266 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% if it's natural gas fired power plants, 07:53.266 --> 07:54.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% if it's cement factories, 07:54.566 --> 07:55.866 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% if it's ethanol, 07:55.866 --> 07:57.000 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% all of the above, 07:57.000 --> 07:59.500 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% we need to be decarbonizing of those point sources. 07:59.500 --> 08:01.133 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% - So there's a portfolio of sources. 08:01.133 --> 08:02.233 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% [Sallie] Yeah, absolutely. 08:02.233 --> 08:03.566 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% - Refineries. Gosh. 08:03.566 --> 08:04.666 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Sallie you've got a project going, 08:04.666 --> 08:06.166 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% talk about that a little bit. 08:06.166 --> 08:09.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - So, the Illinois Basin Decatur project 08:09.400 --> 08:12.600 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% was funded by the U.S. Department of Energy 08:12.600 --> 08:13.700 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% through the 08:13.700 --> 08:15.700 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Regional Carbon Sequestration Partnership program, 08:15.700 --> 08:18.433 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% started in 2008, 08:18.433 --> 08:20.800 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% and just finished up. 08:20.800 --> 08:22.966 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% It demonstrated the full value chain 08:22.966 --> 08:24.433 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% of carbon capture and storage. 08:24.433 --> 08:26.433 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% We captured a million tons of carbon dioxide 08:26.433 --> 08:28.166 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% from ethanol production, 08:28.166 --> 08:31.933 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% at an Archer Daniels Midland corn processing plant 08:31.933 --> 08:34.433 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% over a period of three years. 08:34.433 --> 08:39.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% A second project leveraged all the science from that. 08:39.900 --> 08:44.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that project started injecting CO2 in 2017, 08:44.100 --> 08:46.066 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% and is still injecting today. 08:46.066 --> 08:49.300 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% So all told, there's probably about 4 million tons 08:49.300 --> 08:51.200 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% of carbon dioxide stored in Decatur. 08:51.200 --> 08:52.566 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% - 4 million tons is a lot. 08:52.566 --> 08:53.666 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Is this scalable? 08:53.666 --> 08:55.433 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Are we gonna start to see things like this? 08:55.433 --> 08:59.233 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% - I mean, where we started was individual projects, 08:59.233 --> 09:01.600 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% regional assessments, you know, 09:01.600 --> 09:05.466 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% building capacity and proving that we could do this 09:05.466 --> 09:07.233 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% safely and effectively. 09:07.233 --> 09:08.800 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% What we're seeing now 09:08.800 --> 09:11.866 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% is the development of the infrastructure 09:11.866 --> 09:14.200 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and the ways that we're going to connect this 09:14.200 --> 09:16.433 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% so that across the country 09:16.433 --> 09:20.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we're connecting sources with storage locations. 09:22.066 --> 09:23.733 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - We talked a lot about point sources. 09:24.966 --> 09:27.233 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% You mentioned direct air capture, 09:27.233 --> 09:28.933 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% the mechanics of it. 09:28.933 --> 09:31.833 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% You're moving a lot of poor volumes of air 09:31.833 --> 09:33.300 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% through something in order to scrub out something 09:33.300 --> 09:35.733 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% that isn't very concentrated in them. 09:35.733 --> 09:37.500 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% Is that why it's so expensive? 09:37.500 --> 09:38.500 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% - Exactly. 09:38.500 --> 09:39.500 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Direct air capture, 09:39.500 --> 09:41.666 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% because of the super low concentration in air, 09:41.666 --> 09:43.466 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% you just have to build it differently. 09:43.466 --> 09:46.033 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% You can't do the same thing you'd do for a point source. 09:46.033 --> 09:47.466 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% What you end up having to do 09:47.466 --> 09:49.933 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% is make a really big air contactor, 09:49.933 --> 09:51.600 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% 'cause you gotta touch a lot of air. 09:51.600 --> 09:53.533 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% That costs a lot of capital. 09:53.533 --> 09:55.533 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And then you have to reconstitute 09:55.533 --> 09:57.400 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% a lot of solvent or adsorbent, 09:57.400 --> 09:58.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% which is also expensive. 09:58.600 --> 09:59.866 align:left position:42.5% line:83% size:47.5% - Yeah. - Right? 09:59.866 --> 10:02.800 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And most of the energy cost is not electricity, 10:02.800 --> 10:05.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% most of the energy cost is heat. 10:05.133 --> 10:07.533 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% So you gotta pay for heat, which is its own thing. 10:07.533 --> 10:08.566 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Right. 10:08.566 --> 10:09.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - So direct air capture is helpful for things 10:09.966 --> 10:12.033 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% that we have no technology for, 10:12.033 --> 10:15.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% like the use of fertilizer emits greenhouse gases 10:15.233 --> 10:16.833 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% we're gonna keep using fertilizer. 10:16.833 --> 10:18.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% We don't have an option for that. 10:18.366 --> 10:20.000 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Aviation's gonna cost something like 10:20.000 --> 10:23.700 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% $2,000 a ton or more to abate. 10:23.700 --> 10:26.633 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Carbon capture from the air is about $500 a ton now, 10:26.633 --> 10:28.366 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% so it's just cheaper, right? 10:28.366 --> 10:30.466 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And those costs are coming down fast too. 10:30.466 --> 10:33.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Yeah, one of the things that we are seeing 10:33.400 --> 10:36.966 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% is the concentration of these kinds of technologies. 10:36.966 --> 10:39.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So I think what you're gonna see 10:39.166 --> 10:42.733 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% is direct air capture infrastructure 10:42.733 --> 10:45.566 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% located perhaps at a storage site, 10:45.566 --> 10:48.600 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% or you're capturing from a facility 10:48.600 --> 10:51.333 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and you're installing direct air capture 10:51.333 --> 10:54.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% either at the capture end or at the storage end 10:54.100 --> 10:56.166 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% because you are increasing the capacity 10:56.166 --> 10:57.766 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% and you have a system to move it. 10:57.766 --> 10:58.800 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% - Yeah. 10:58.800 --> 11:00.733 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Why do we care about capturing and storing CO2? 11:00.733 --> 11:02.066 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% What's it used for? 11:02.066 --> 11:04.800 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - Well, the main use is enhanced oil recovery 11:04.800 --> 11:07.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% where we're using carbon dioxide essentially 11:07.100 --> 11:11.500 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% as a solvent to help us produce additional oil 11:11.500 --> 11:14.933 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% from mature oil reservoirs. 11:14.933 --> 11:17.133 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% And those activities, 11:17.133 --> 11:19.400 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% depending on the price of oil, 11:19.400 --> 11:21.566 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% are only limited by the amount of CO2 11:21.566 --> 11:23.200 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% that is available to them. 11:23.200 --> 11:25.533 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - Is the net equation okay on that or? 11:25.533 --> 11:28.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - I think you need to ask Julio about that. 11:28.066 --> 11:32.433 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% - You can completely balance the CO2 produced from oil 11:32.433 --> 11:34.066 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% with the CO2 injection. 11:34.066 --> 11:35.466 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% That is only a thing recently. 11:35.466 --> 11:38.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% People have only wanted that as a product 11:38.300 --> 11:40.066 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% in the past few years. 11:40.066 --> 11:41.733 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% We are also seeing a whole lot of 11:41.733 --> 11:44.633 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% new uses for carbon dioxide. 11:44.633 --> 11:46.966 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% One of those is to turn CO2 into concrete, 11:46.966 --> 11:48.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% concrete's the most-used material after water 11:48.600 --> 11:49.700 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% in the world. 11:49.700 --> 11:51.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% We use 30 billion tons of concrete air. 11:51.366 --> 11:53.166 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% You can put a lot of CO2 into that. 11:53.166 --> 11:55.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Increasingly, people are also looking to turn CO2 11:55.600 --> 11:57.966 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% into fuels and chemicals. 11:57.966 --> 12:00.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So there's a company out there called LanzaJet. 12:00.800 --> 12:03.433 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% They take the waste CO2 from steel mills 12:03.433 --> 12:05.366 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% and turns it into jet fuel, 12:05.366 --> 12:06.533 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% which is pretty cool. 12:06.533 --> 12:09.033 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - What's the energy equation on that? 12:09.033 --> 12:12.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - This is the thing, to do that takes more energy 12:12.066 --> 12:14.466 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% than was in the fuel to begin with. 12:14.466 --> 12:16.633 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% But there's a bunch of companies that turn CO2 12:16.633 --> 12:20.900 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% into everything from vodka to Legos and yoga pants. 12:20.900 --> 12:23.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Like, and it's nice that we can reimagine a world 12:23.833 --> 12:25.833 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% made out of this waste product. 12:25.833 --> 12:26.933 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% - Yeah. 12:26.933 --> 12:30.366 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% One or two most promising, Sallie, that you've seen. 12:30.366 --> 12:33.533 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - I think construction material, wallboard, 12:33.533 --> 12:35.266 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% things like that, makes a lot of sense 12:35.266 --> 12:37.733 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% instead of mining that stuff, 12:37.733 --> 12:39.966 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% and I think cement. 12:39.966 --> 12:41.000 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% - What about plastics? 12:41.000 --> 12:42.966 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Any use coming down the road there? 12:42.966 --> 12:44.200 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% - Yeah, absolutely. 12:44.200 --> 12:47.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And a number of companies are looking to make CO2 12:47.333 --> 12:49.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% into precursor chemicals, 12:49.033 --> 12:51.533 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% things like ethylene and carbon monoxide 12:51.533 --> 12:52.933 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% or methanol 12:52.933 --> 12:54.833 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and then those get turned into plastics. 12:54.833 --> 12:56.133 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I'm gonna add, you know, 12:56.133 --> 12:57.733 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% we're not gonna balance the climate books 12:57.733 --> 12:59.966 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% on yoga pants, right? 12:59.966 --> 13:02.300 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% The entire plastics market in the world 13:02.300 --> 13:04.433 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% is about a billion tons a year of stuff. 13:04.433 --> 13:05.366 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% So you can maybe get 13:05.366 --> 13:07.233 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% a hundred million tons of CO2 into that. 13:07.233 --> 13:09.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Okay, it's not that much. 13:09.566 --> 13:12.233 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% The entire concrete business is 30 billion tons, 13:12.233 --> 13:14.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% you can probably get a billion tons of CO2 13:14.066 --> 13:15.800 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% into that, maybe two. 13:15.800 --> 13:16.766 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% That's it. 13:16.766 --> 13:18.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% It's real and it counts. 13:18.833 --> 13:20.666 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% But we know the arithmetic. 13:20.666 --> 13:23.333 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% We emit 40 billion tons of CO2. 13:23.333 --> 13:26.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We're gonna have to stop emitting in a bunch of places. 13:26.200 --> 13:28.700 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And a bunch of that CO2 is just gonna be stored. 13:28.700 --> 13:30.600 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% - So let's talk about storage. 13:30.600 --> 13:31.933 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% How do we do that? 13:31.933 --> 13:33.300 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% - We start with the geology. 13:33.300 --> 13:35.900 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% One type of rock, for example, sandstone, 13:35.900 --> 13:39.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% has pore space in between the grains of sand 13:39.833 --> 13:41.433 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% that make up the sandstone, 13:41.433 --> 13:44.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and then that is capped or sealed 13:44.500 --> 13:47.566 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% with something much denser like a shale. 13:47.566 --> 13:49.733 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% So you look for sedimentary basins 13:49.733 --> 13:52.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% where you have that kind of package of rocks. 13:52.700 --> 13:54.333 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% You characterize it, 13:54.333 --> 13:57.100 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% try to make sure there are no faults and fractures. 13:57.100 --> 13:59.800 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% After you've captured your carbon dioxide, 13:59.800 --> 14:01.633 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% ship that via a pipeline, 14:01.633 --> 14:03.666 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% you drill wells in the subsurface 14:03.666 --> 14:07.633 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and then you basically inject that carbon dioxide 14:07.633 --> 14:10.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% through a well into a reservoir, 14:10.266 --> 14:11.600 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% into a rock reservoir. 14:11.600 --> 14:13.600 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% - And those are filled mostly with? 14:13.600 --> 14:14.733 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% - Brine, heavy brine, 14:14.733 --> 14:16.033 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% - Salt water. - salt water. 14:16.033 --> 14:17.066 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% - Old oceans, right? 14:17.066 --> 14:18.400 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% - Yeah, and so you're talking about 14:18.400 --> 14:20.400 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% water that's not potable. 14:20.400 --> 14:23.300 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% And so carbon dioxide, 14:23.300 --> 14:25.133 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% some of it goes into solution, 14:25.133 --> 14:27.733 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% it dissolves into the brine itself. 14:27.733 --> 14:31.900 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Some of it exists as discreet CO2, 14:31.900 --> 14:34.666 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% just pure CO2 in its liquid form. 14:34.666 --> 14:36.200 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - So kind of trapped in its phase. 14:36.200 --> 14:37.733 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% - Yeah, trapped in its phase 14:37.733 --> 14:39.933 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and it gets stuck in those pore spaces. 14:39.933 --> 14:41.433 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% - And people have to remember 14:41.433 --> 14:43.666 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% what you're putting underground is not a gas, 14:43.666 --> 14:46.466 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% it works like oil in the subsurface. 14:46.466 --> 14:49.666 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% So any rocks that would normally trap and store 14:49.666 --> 14:52.200 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% hydrocarbons will do the same thing here. 14:52.200 --> 14:53.266 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% [Scott] Is that safe? 14:53.266 --> 14:54.133 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% Is it? 14:54.133 --> 14:55.233 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% - Yeah, absolutely. 14:55.233 --> 14:59.233 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I mean, here's how we know that you can store things 14:59.233 --> 15:01.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in the earth for hundreds of millions of years, 15:01.533 --> 15:03.366 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% because we can produce oil 15:03.366 --> 15:05.700 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% that has been in the earth for hundreds of millions of years 15:05.700 --> 15:09.300 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and we are creating a storage complex 15:09.300 --> 15:13.600 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that takes everything we know about oil and gas production 15:13.600 --> 15:15.533 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and turns it around to make the safest 15:15.533 --> 15:17.133 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% storage container that we can. 15:17.133 --> 15:19.766 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - Yeah. There's some CO2 pipelines around. 15:19.766 --> 15:22.333 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Where are those and why do they exist today? 15:22.333 --> 15:25.066 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% - So there's about 5,000 miles 15:25.066 --> 15:27.500 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% of CO2 pipeline in the United States. 15:27.500 --> 15:30.433 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% The majority of that is in the West. 15:30.433 --> 15:34.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% There's also significant pipelines from Canada, 15:34.866 --> 15:35.933 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% North Dakota, 15:35.933 --> 15:39.033 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% but mostly I would say out west and the southeast. 15:39.033 --> 15:40.033 align:left position:35% line:89% size:55% [Scott] Yeah. 15:40.033 --> 15:41.566 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% - We are in fact seeing 15:41.566 --> 15:45.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% purely privately financed pipelines come into fruition. 15:45.566 --> 15:48.633 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% That is the consequence of policy changes in the U.S. 15:48.633 --> 15:52.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% That tax credit 45Q pays people to store CO2. 15:52.800 --> 15:54.666 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And these pipelines that are springing up 15:54.666 --> 15:56.200 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% around the Midwest, 15:56.200 --> 15:58.833 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% an aggregate is like 30 million tons of CO2. 15:58.833 --> 16:00.400 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% It's a big number, 16:00.400 --> 16:03.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and we're glad to see this stuff happening. 16:03.133 --> 16:04.400 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% - Right, right. 16:04.400 --> 16:06.400 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Five thousand miles sounds like a lot 16:06.400 --> 16:09.600 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% but compare that to natural gas pipelines. 16:09.600 --> 16:10.666 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% Any numbers there? 16:10.666 --> 16:12.233 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - Yeah, the natural gas pipeline network 16:12.233 --> 16:14.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% of the United States is two million miles. 16:14.400 --> 16:15.800 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% So, a little bigger. 16:15.800 --> 16:18.100 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% And analysis has shown that to 16:18.100 --> 16:22.066 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% get all the stuff we care about with carbon capture in the U.S., 16:22.066 --> 16:25.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we need somewhere between 20,000 and 60,000 miles. 16:25.400 --> 16:26.900 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% But it's not ridiculous growth. 16:26.900 --> 16:28.566 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% Like, it's totally in bounds. 16:28.566 --> 16:30.466 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% - It's not two million miles. 16:30.466 --> 16:31.600 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% - Yeah, it's not two million. 16:31.600 --> 16:34.200 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Now, these aren't-- these are pipelines. 16:34.200 --> 16:36.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% CO2 is corrosive. 16:36.566 --> 16:38.566 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% You can't just put it in a natural gas pipeline, right? 16:38.566 --> 16:40.133 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% - Well, it's a mix of stuff. 16:40.133 --> 16:42.533 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% The CO2 plus water is what's corrosive, 16:42.533 --> 16:44.300 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% CO2 on its own isn't. 16:44.300 --> 16:46.066 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% It has to be pressure rated. 16:46.066 --> 16:47.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You want certain kinds of metals in the pipeline. 16:47.866 --> 16:49.600 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% You don't wanna use cast iron, 16:49.600 --> 16:52.500 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% but you can use some of the existing infrastructure. 16:52.500 --> 16:53.766 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% But not enough. 16:53.766 --> 16:55.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We're gonna need to build a bunch of pipelines. 16:55.533 --> 16:57.833 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% - We don't like building pipelines. 16:57.833 --> 17:00.166 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% We seem to be opposed to building pipelines. 17:00.166 --> 17:02.566 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - People love to hate a pipeline. 17:02.566 --> 17:04.300 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% [Scott] How are we gonna do it? 17:04.300 --> 17:05.266 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - So one of the-- 17:05.266 --> 17:06.366 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% - Can we do it? 17:06.366 --> 17:08.100 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% - Yeah, so one of the things that's been looked at 17:08.100 --> 17:11.900 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and has been suggested is specifically 17:11.900 --> 17:15.833 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% permitted corridors that are developed 17:15.833 --> 17:19.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% by the federal government where you're aggregating 17:19.133 --> 17:22.166 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% multiple types of pipelines. 17:22.166 --> 17:25.000 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% There are CO2 pipeline companies. 17:25.000 --> 17:30.566 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% The challenge there is how flexible you are 17:30.566 --> 17:32.700 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% in the routing of your pipeline 17:32.700 --> 17:37.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and whether or not you may invoke eminent domain. 17:37.300 --> 17:40.500 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% And what we see in the Midwest 17:40.500 --> 17:43.200 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% is that you have people who, 17:43.200 --> 17:45.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% their identity is wrapped up in that land, 17:45.366 --> 17:48.133 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% their legacy, their wealth and their stewardship. 17:48.133 --> 17:49.400 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% I mean, they feel very strongly 17:49.400 --> 17:50.866 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% about the stewardship of that. 17:50.866 --> 17:55.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And so it's a really challenging 17:55.100 --> 17:57.800 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% social construct that you have to look at. 17:57.800 --> 17:59.233 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - Similar look to building big power lines. 17:59.233 --> 18:01.266 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I mean, should we be scared of CO2 pipeline? 18:01.266 --> 18:03.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Should the public be scared of these things? 18:03.633 --> 18:04.566 align:left position:45% line:89% size:45% - No. 18:04.566 --> 18:06.833 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% CO2 puts out fires. 18:06.833 --> 18:09.533 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Like, it is something our body makes. 18:09.533 --> 18:13.133 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% It is the most inert benign substance like around, 18:13.133 --> 18:15.333 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% you know, it's energy content 18:15.333 --> 18:17.033 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% is the same energy content as water. 18:17.033 --> 18:19.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Like, it is not like an oil pipeline 18:19.633 --> 18:22.433 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% or a gas pipeline or hydrogen pipeline 18:22.433 --> 18:25.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% or an ethylene glycol pipeline, like it is, 18:25.133 --> 18:27.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% it is a pretty benign substance. 18:27.533 --> 18:30.966 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% So the risks of these things is actually quite low. 18:30.966 --> 18:32.000 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% - Yeah. 18:32.000 --> 18:34.566 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - There are reasonable concerns that people have 18:34.566 --> 18:36.700 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and you gotta address those concerns. 18:36.700 --> 18:38.333 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - One of the big things that I hear 18:38.333 --> 18:41.133 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% when I talk to people is 18:41.133 --> 18:44.133 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% why can't we have more safety valves, 18:44.133 --> 18:49.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or more safety monitoring equipment at shorter intervals? 18:49.200 --> 18:51.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% And I don't think that those are 18:51.100 --> 18:54.800 align:left position:35% line:83% size:55% unreasonable questions or demands. 18:54.800 --> 18:58.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - We've built two million miles of other pipelines. 18:58.600 --> 19:00.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% We've done this. 19:00.566 --> 19:01.866 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Right. 19:01.866 --> 19:03.700 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% The fact is, at some point or another, 19:03.700 --> 19:04.933 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% we're gonna have to bite the bullet. 19:04.933 --> 19:07.300 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% We have to build infrastructure for the energy transition. 19:07.300 --> 19:08.966 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% It's not just CO2 pipelines, 19:08.966 --> 19:11.533 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% it's transmission lines and ports 19:11.533 --> 19:13.533 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and charging stations and fueling stations 19:13.533 --> 19:14.800 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% and all these things. 19:14.800 --> 19:18.533 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% So we have to get into a way of saying 19:18.533 --> 19:20.400 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% yes to projects like this. 19:20.400 --> 19:21.966 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% 'Cause otherwise we are just not gonna hit 19:21.966 --> 19:24.133 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% our climate targets, we're just not. 19:24.133 --> 19:26.133 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - And I just wanna make the point 19:26.133 --> 19:29.133 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% about the energy transition and that is that, 19:29.133 --> 19:31.833 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% we're at the beginning of the energy transition. 19:31.833 --> 19:34.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% We have not actually accomplished 19:34.400 --> 19:35.633 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% an energy transition. 19:35.633 --> 19:41.066 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And so all of this willingness to do hard things 19:41.066 --> 19:43.366 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and to have these complicated projects 19:43.366 --> 19:44.733 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% like that's all part of 19:44.733 --> 19:47.200 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% what we have to be willing to take on. 19:47.200 --> 19:50.400 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - I mean, everything we're talking about, it's all money. 19:50.400 --> 19:52.100 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% How does this happen? 19:52.766 --> 19:54.766 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - Let's start by saying in some markets 19:54.766 --> 19:56.033 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% and some parts of the world, 19:56.033 --> 19:57.566 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% you won't do carbon capture. 19:57.566 --> 19:59.233 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% Japan and South Korea, 19:59.233 --> 20:01.666 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% they just won't have places to store CO2. 20:01.666 --> 20:05.600 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% But this gets paid for because you care about climate. 20:05.600 --> 20:07.366 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% That's all it's for. 20:07.366 --> 20:11.466 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% As it becomes urgent to move forward, 20:11.466 --> 20:13.800 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% you see that carbon capture is cost competitive 20:13.800 --> 20:16.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in a bunch of markets, in a bunch of applications. 20:16.466 --> 20:19.600 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - And what countries are the most promising? 20:19.600 --> 20:22.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Norway has been at the forefront of this space. 20:22.400 --> 20:25.400 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% They've been storing carbon dioxide 20:25.400 --> 20:29.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% under the North Sea for, since 1995. 20:29.266 --> 20:31.433 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Australia is a leader in this space-- 20:31.433 --> 20:32.633 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% - But these are rich world, 20:32.633 --> 20:35.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% does it make sense in emerging developing world? 20:35.066 --> 20:36.700 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - I think it makes sense for everybody 20:36.700 --> 20:39.500 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% to look at all options available to them. 20:39.500 --> 20:41.266 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% - It is fair to ask 20:41.266 --> 20:43.400 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% if for some developing nations 20:43.400 --> 20:45.400 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% carbon capture should be a priority, 20:45.400 --> 20:50.200 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and because carbon capture and storage has additional cost, 20:50.200 --> 20:52.733 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% for some nations, it's not practical 20:52.733 --> 20:54.233 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% for them to do that today. 20:54.233 --> 20:56.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I'm thinking about a nation like South Africa 20:56.633 --> 20:58.600 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% or Nigeria or Mexico, 20:58.600 --> 21:00.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% maybe that's not their priority. 21:00.466 --> 21:02.166 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% In a place like India, 21:02.166 --> 21:04.666 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% it may not be a priority today, but it will be soon. 21:04.666 --> 21:06.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% So they should start the work of planning 21:06.633 --> 21:08.166 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% the geological assessments, 21:08.166 --> 21:09.500 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% looking at technology options, 21:09.500 --> 21:10.800 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% thinking about how to finance it. 21:10.800 --> 21:12.233 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% They should start that now. 21:12.233 --> 21:14.100 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - But I'd just like to add to that. 21:14.100 --> 21:19.266 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% It's not like those countries are completely unaware, 21:19.266 --> 21:22.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or completely disengaged from the conversation. 21:22.466 --> 21:27.733 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Obviously they have much, much more immediate challenges 21:27.733 --> 21:28.933 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% that they're facing. 21:28.933 --> 21:31.300 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% But I think that there are certain countries 21:31.300 --> 21:33.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that have done the, for example, 21:33.000 --> 21:35.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% the geologic assessment of what the potential 21:35.600 --> 21:38.333 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% for carbon storage is onshore and offshore. 21:38.333 --> 21:42.966 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - The U.S., Europe could do more in terms of engaging 21:42.966 --> 21:44.633 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% these parts of the world. 21:44.633 --> 21:46.200 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% I would like to see something that looks 21:46.200 --> 21:48.866 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% like a Marshall plan in which 21:48.866 --> 21:52.333 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% instead of just giving money to countries for aid, 21:52.333 --> 21:54.200 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% we give money to domestic companies 21:54.200 --> 21:56.100 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% to deploy in those other countries. 21:56.100 --> 21:58.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% That is exactly what Japan does today. 21:58.633 --> 22:01.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They are trying to invest in places around the world 22:01.833 --> 22:04.066 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% where they can bring carbon capture into them 22:04.066 --> 22:05.566 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% to benefit their industry. 22:05.566 --> 22:08.866 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And that industrial policy has got a new life these days. 22:08.866 --> 22:10.633 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% - You mentioned earlier Julio, 22:10.633 --> 22:13.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% CO2, 40 million tons now, not that much. 22:13.600 --> 22:16.700 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% A thousand fold increase I think you said, plus or minus. 22:16.700 --> 22:18.266 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% Is it possible? 22:18.266 --> 22:21.766 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - So a hundred times scale up is super hard. 22:21.766 --> 22:24.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It is no harder than the other super hard things 22:24.000 --> 22:26.233 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% we have to do in the energy transition. 22:26.233 --> 22:28.633 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% It is no harder than tripling the electric grid. 22:28.633 --> 22:32.966 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% It is no harder than a 400 fold scale up in clean hydrogen. 22:32.966 --> 22:35.700 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% It is no harder than hundreds and hundreds 22:35.700 --> 22:38.000 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% of nuclear power plants all over the world. 22:38.000 --> 22:39.800 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% All of these things are hard. 22:39.800 --> 22:42.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It is just one of the incredibly hard things we need to do 22:42.900 --> 22:44.633 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% if we're serious about climate. 22:44.633 --> 22:48.166 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% But there's nothing in the finance or the physics 22:48.166 --> 22:50.666 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% or the engineering that can't be done. 22:50.666 --> 22:51.733 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% - Right. 22:51.733 --> 22:54.533 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Closing thoughts, you know, 22:54.533 --> 22:57.733 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% let's pretend like you're a 22:57.733 --> 22:59.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% benevolent dictator for the day. 22:59.933 --> 23:01.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Mmm, love where this is going. 23:01.866 --> 23:03.033 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% [laughing] 23:03.033 --> 23:05.233 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - What should be our plan of action 23:05.233 --> 23:06.833 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% for carbon capture? 23:06.833 --> 23:08.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% What would you do Sallie? 23:08.533 --> 23:11.966 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% - I would force a balanced portfolio. 23:11.966 --> 23:17.000 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I would say, how do we use everything that we have 23:17.000 --> 23:18.066 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% for the greatest benefit 23:18.066 --> 23:20.000 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% for the greatest number of people? 23:20.000 --> 23:26.700 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% And that looks like what works best where, 23:26.700 --> 23:32.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% how do we deploy at micro scales and macro scales. 23:33.366 --> 23:36.533 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% I love this idea of trade agreements, 23:36.533 --> 23:40.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or you know some sort of international policies 23:40.666 --> 23:48.600 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that allow us to bring other countries along, and, 23:48.600 --> 23:52.166 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% but I would also solve the local problems. 23:52.166 --> 23:55.700 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And I really believe at the end of the day 23:55.700 --> 23:58.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% having hard conversations is the path to get there. 23:58.966 --> 24:00.300 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% - Same question. 24:00.300 --> 24:04.233 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% - Later on, I will hand you my 70-point plan on what to do, 24:04.233 --> 24:06.666 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% but if I have one thing to do, 24:06.666 --> 24:08.500 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% infrastructure is the thing we missing. 24:08.500 --> 24:11.866 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% For the next 30 years, every week is infrastructure week. 24:11.866 --> 24:13.866 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% In the United States and around the world, 24:13.866 --> 24:15.266 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% we need to build ports. 24:15.266 --> 24:17.700 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% We need to build transmission power lines. 24:17.700 --> 24:19.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We need to build hydrogen fueling stations 24:19.733 --> 24:21.066 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% and CO2 pipelines. 24:21.066 --> 24:23.733 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% We need a lot of infrastructure we don't have. 24:23.733 --> 24:26.566 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% If we are clever and inventive 24:26.566 --> 24:29.000 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% and generous in how we do that, 24:29.000 --> 24:31.233 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% the global south can benefit in a big way 24:31.233 --> 24:33.200 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and the world will benefit from that. 24:33.200 --> 24:35.700 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% And we will see geopolitical rearrangements 24:35.700 --> 24:37.800 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% from such a thing if we're smart about it. 24:37.800 --> 24:39.400 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% - Yeah, great stuff. 24:39.400 --> 24:40.366 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% Thanks. 24:40.366 --> 24:41.166 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% It's been great. 24:41.166 --> 24:42.600 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% - Thanks Scott. - Great dialogue. 24:42.600 --> 24:43.466 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% Thank you. 24:44.833 --> 24:47.033 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% [Scott] Our guests said that initial projects 24:47.033 --> 24:50.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% to capture CO2 at coal power plants 24:50.066 --> 24:52.100 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% have not been so successful. 24:52.100 --> 24:54.133 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% We've gotten better capture results 24:54.133 --> 24:56.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% at ethanol and fertilizer plants 24:56.433 --> 24:59.533 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% that produce a pure stream of CO2. 25:00.766 --> 25:02.933 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Other pilot projects are capturing CO2 25:02.933 --> 25:04.800 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% directly from the air, 25:04.800 --> 25:06.866 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% though at a high price. 25:06.866 --> 25:10.033 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% CO2 emission sites are widely distributed 25:10.033 --> 25:12.666 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% so we'll need pipelines to reach them. 25:12.666 --> 25:17.400 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% There are currently 5,000 miles of CO2 pipelines in the U.S. 25:17.400 --> 25:20.400 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Permitting new ones will be challenging. 25:20.400 --> 25:23.900 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Storing the CO2 may be more straightforward. 25:23.900 --> 25:25.166 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% Oil and gas has been trapped 25:25.166 --> 25:28.766 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in subsurface reservoirs for millions of years. 25:28.766 --> 25:31.800 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Research has shown that injected CO2 25:31.800 --> 25:34.100 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% will remain there as well. 25:34.100 --> 25:36.333 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% These experts agree that new infrastructure 25:36.333 --> 25:40.133 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% is vital to connect the places that could capture CO2 25:40.133 --> 25:42.666 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% to the places that could store it. 25:42.666 --> 25:52.666 align:left position:47.5% line:89% size:42.5% ♪ ♪ 25:52.666 --> 26:02.733 align:left position:47.5% line:89% size:42.5% ♪ ♪ 26:02.733 --> 26:12.433 align:left position:47.5% line:89% size:42.5% ♪ ♪ 26:12.433 --> 26:13.866 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% [Narrator] Funding for "Energy Switch" 26:13.866 --> 26:16.900 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% was provided in part by 26:16.900 --> 26:19.466 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% the University of Texas at Austin, 26:19.466 --> 26:21.933 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% leading research in energy and the environment 26:21.933 --> 26:23.800 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% for a better tomorrow. 26:23.800 --> 26:26.300 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% What starts here changes the world. 26:27.566 --> 26:31.066 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% And by EarthX, an international nonprofit 26:31.066 --> 26:33.733 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% working towards a more sustainable future. 26:33.733 --> 26:36.400 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% See more at earthx.org.