>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE

POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE

BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON

FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF

NINE PBS.

>> HEY, THANKS FOR JOINING US

FOR THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US AND A

LOT OF HOT TOPICS IN THIS MID

JULY EDITION.

BUT AFTER THAT, WE'RE GOING TO

TALK TO TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO

THINK THAT MAKING A WALKABLE,

BIKEABLE ST. LOUIS WILL REALLY

YIELD ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

WE'LL TALK TO CINDY MENSE OF

TRAILNET AND SARAH ARNOSKY, VICE

PRESIDENT AT GREATER ST. LOUIS

INC.

BUT FIRST LET'S DISCUSS THE

ISSUES WITH OUR PANEL.

LET'S MEET THEM.

WENDY WIESE IS THE NEWS DIRECTOR

FOR THE BIG 550 KTRS.

ALSO THE COHOST OF THE JENNIFER

AND WENDY SHOW.

MR. BILL McCLELLAN IS WITH US, A

FOUNDER OF THE PROGRAM.

HE'S WITH THE ST. LOUIS

POST-DISPATCH.

RAY HARTMANN WITH RAWSTORY.COM,

THE BIG 550, KTRS, AND THE

RIVERFRONT TIMES, ANOTHER

FOUNDER.

AND HE'S THE NEWS EDITOR AND

SPORTS COLUMNIST WITH THE

ST. LOUIS AMERICAN, ALVIN REID.

OKAY, LET ME ASK YOU, RAY

HARTMANN, IT WAS KIND OF

HISTORIC, I GUESS.

PEOPLE SAID THE TEN OR WAS IT

12-HOUR MEETING THIS WEEK OF THE

ST. LOUIS BOARD OF ALDERMEN,

SHATTERED ALL RECORDS FOR THIS

LEGISLATIVE BODY THAT NEVER NET

AT QUITE SUCH A LENGTH.

I GUESS HISTORIANS WILL HAVE TO

LOOK INTO THAT AND SEE IF THAT'S

TRUE, BUT NONETHELESS, THIS YEAR

ST. LOUIS IS GETTING 498 MILLION

FEDERAL DOLLARS FROM THE

AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN AND A LOT

OF THAT HAS BEEN ALLOCATED

THANKS TO ACTION BY THE BOARD.

DIRECT PAYMENTS OF $500 WILL GO

TO 10,000 NEEDY ST. LOUISANS.

GIFT CARDS GO TO ST. LOUISANS SO

THEY'LL BE VACCINATED.

THE POLICE WILL GET $5 MILLION

IN OVERTIME AND ALL THIS GOES TO

THE BOARD OF ESTIMATE AND

APPORTIONMENT WHICH MEETS FRI,

TOMORROW.

THERE'S ANOTHER STEP BEFORE THIS

BECOMES REALITY, BUT OVERALL,

WHAT DID YOU SYMPATTHINK?

>> I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE

CYNICAL ABOUT THE CITY OF

ST. LOUIS AND I WISH WASHINGTON

WOULD WORK AS WELL AS THE CITY

OF ST. LOUIS DID.

YOU HAD DIFFERENCES OF OPINION

BETWEEN MAYOR TISHAURA JONES AND

LEWIS REED, THE ALDERMANIC

PRESIDENT AND THEY SAT DOWN AND

APPARENTLY HASHED IT OUT.

I THINK IT'S EASY TO SIT HERE,

BUT I THINK THEY COMPROMISED AND

WHAT'S WE WANT PUBLIC OFFICIALS

TO DO IS TALK THINGS OUT AND

COMPROMISE, AND I HAPPEN TO

THINK THAT THE -- THAT WHILE

IT'S UNCONVENTIONAL, THE DIRECT

PAYMENTS WILL BE STIMULUSES TO

THE ST. LOUIS ECONOMY AND MORE

IMPORTANT, HELP THE PEOPLE

THAT -- THE 10,000 PEOPLE THAT

WILL BE RECEIVING THEM AND

THEY'LL BE VERY HELPFUL, VERY

CRITICAL TO THOSE FOLKS.

I THINK IT'S A GOOD STEP.

I THINK THEY'RE WORKING IN THE

RIGHT DIRECTION.

>> WHILE I AGREE WITH HIM, I'M

GOING TO GO WAY BACK WHEN THIS

FIRST CAME UP AND BILL McCLELLAN

SAID WHY NOT JUST TAKE THE

$5 MILLION OUT OF THE STIMULUS

PACKAGE?

SO IT'S KIND OF -- MAYBE IT

DIDN'T NEED TO TAKE SIX HOURS

AND MAYBE SOME OF THE SOLUTIONS

WERE RIGHT THERE, SO MAYBE THIS

WAS A LITTLE TOO MUCH POLITICAL

DOG FIGHT, BUT IT'S CALLED

COMPROMISE AND LIKE RAY SAID,

THAT'S, I THINK, ALL THAT MOST

OF AMERICA WANTS RIGHT NOW.

AND IF BOTH TEAMS CAN SAY, LIKE,

HEY, I GOT A WIN OUT OF THIS,

THAT'S NOT A BAD THING.

THAT'S NOT A BAD THING AT ALL.

SO HEY, IF YOU'RE GOING TO GET

THE JOB DONE, GET THE JOB DONE.

>> WELL -- I'M SORRY, BILL.

GO AHEAD.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, I'M HAPPY

WITH IT, TOO, BUT IT'S GOING TO

BE INTERESTING TO FIGURE OUT

WHAT 10,000 PEOPLE GET $500

BECAUSE THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF

PEOPLE WHO COULD USE $500.

DO YOU GIVE IT TO THE POOREST

PEOPLE OR DOES IT HAVE TO BE

SOMEBODY WHO WAS IMPACTED

DIRECTLY BY COVID, SOMEONE WHO

LOST THEIR JOB?

I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF

THAT, BUT IT WILL BE

INTERESTING.

>> REALLY BROADCASTERS SHOULD BE

FIRST IN LINE.

>> WE'VE HAD STIMULUS CHECKS

FROM PRESIDENT BUSH, PRESIDENT

TRUMP, PRESIDENT BIDEN BECAUSE

OF COVID.

JEFFREY BOYD AND LEWIS REED WERE

CERTAINLY NOT IN FAVOR OF IT

JUST ON ITS MERITS BECAUSE

THEY'RE SAYING THAT IT'S -- YOU

CAN'T PROVE THAT IT'S GOING TO

MAKE THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE

AND THAT IT WAS JUST GOOD MONEY

AFTER BAD OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS

MAYOR JONES SAID THAT THIS WILL

ADDRESS THE CRIME ISSUE AT -- OR

THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE CRIME

ISSUE IN THE CITY AND IT WILL

KEEP PEOPLE IN THEIR HOMES.

AND I THINK THAT'S AN AWFUL LOT

TO EXPECT OF A $500 CHECK.

I DON'T -- I HONESTLY DON'T SEE

HOW $500 ADDRESSES THE ROOT

CAUSES OF CRIME IN OUR CITY.

>> WELL, NO, THAT'S POLITICAL

TALK.

IT WILL ADDRESS IT.

NOW, IT MAY BE ONE GAZILLIONth

OF, YOU KNOW, IMPACT, BUT IT

COULD -- IT COULD -- PROBABLY

WILL MAKE SOME IMPACT.

SO I MEAN, I'M NOT SAYING IT'S

GOING TO SOLVE CRIME.

>> I THINK IT MAKES THE

POLITICIANS POPULAR WHEN THEY

HAND OUT MONEY, THERE'S NO

DOUBT, AND THAT'S WHY THERE WAS

AN INTERESTING CAVEAT TO THIS

MEASURE AND THAT WAS THAT NO

NAME, IMAGE, OR LIKENESS OF ANY

POLITICIAN COULD BE ATTACHED TO

THOSE $500 CHECKS OR TO THE GIFT

CARDS.

NOW, I DON'T -- DON'T GET ME

WRONG.

A LOT OF PEOPLE COULD USE THAT

MONEY, BUT THERE'S ALSO A TON OF

LITTER OUT THERE AND IN THE

1930s, WE HAD THE WORKS PROGRESS

ADMINISTRATION.

I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN

SOME SORT OF GROUP OF PEOPLE

GETTING PAID $500 TO CLEAN UP

SOME OF OUR HIGHWAYS AND BYWAYS

IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS.

>> LET ME POINT OUT, THEY DO

HAVE -- AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT

IS, BUT THEY HAVE A FAIRLY

SPECIFIC PLAN AND LIKE BILL

SAYS, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO

SEE HOW IT IS IN PRACTICE, BUT

IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE JUST

SAYING -- I THINK IT'S FAMILIES

AND THEY HAVE A BUNCH OF

CRITERIA.

SO MY POINT IS, THEY GOT A PLAN.

WE'LL HAVE TO SEE IF IT WORKS.

I THINK IT DOES MATTER AND I

THINK THAT POVERTY IS ONE OF THE

INDICATORS OF CRIME.

>> OKAY, BUT --

>> TO THE EXTENT SOME PEOPLE ARE

ABLE -- 500 MAY NOT SEEM LIKE A

LOT TO EVERYBODY, BUT IT MIGHT

BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

KEEPING THE LIGHTS ON.

>> READING IN THE PAPER TODAY,

BILL McCLELLAN, THAT THERE ARE

800 JOBS IN THE CITY OF

ST. LOUIS THAT ARE NOT FILLED,

AND THIS IS A STORY TAKING A

LOOK AT HOW, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T

FIND PEOPLE TO WORK AS TRASH

HAULERS, THE CITY IS NO LONGER

SEPARATING THE RECYCLE MATERIAL

FROM THE TRASH.

IT'S ALL BEING COLLECTED

TOGETHER, AT LEAST TEMPORARILY.

WHO KNOWS HOW LONG THIS IS GOING

TO LAST, BUT ONE OF THE REASONS

IS THEY CAN'T FIND TRASH

HAULERS.

THERE'S ABOUT 30 OPENINGS THERE,

BUT OVERALL IN THE CITY, 800 JOB

OPENINGS AND IT IS KIND OF

UNUSUAL, ISN'T IT, TO BE HANDING

OUT CHECKS TO PEOPLE WHO CAN'T

FIND WORK WHILE THE CITY ITSELF

HAS 800 JOBS AVAILABLE.

>> OH, THERE'S A VERY

INTERESTING STORY BECAUSE I

WOULD THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE

POLICE DEPARTMENT MIGHT HAVE

TROUBLE FINDING ELIGIBLE CITY

DWELLERS BECAUSE THEY MIGHT HAVE

RECORDS OR SOMETHING, BUT YOU

WOULDN'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM WITH

TRASH HAULERS AND I THINK

THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO

WOULD REALLY LIKE A STEADY JOB

WITH BENEFITS AND IT'S

INCREDIBLE TO ME THAT WE

HAVEN'T -- THAT THE CITY HAS NOT

BEEN ABLE TO FILL THOSE JOBS.

AND HEATHER NAVARRO, THE 28th

WARD ALDERMAN, SAID SHE WENT

ONLINE TO SEE HOW EASY IT IS TO

APPLY FOR A JOB AND SHE COULDN'T

DO IT.

AND THEY QUOTED SOMEBODY SAYING

WELL, THE SYSTEM IS FROM 1968.

AND I REMEMBER 1968, AND I GOT

TIES FROM 1968, BUT YOU DON'T

WANT TO HAVE A COMPUTER SYSTEM

FROM 1968.

SO I THINK THE CITY OUGHT TO

REALLY MAKE AN EFFORT TO HIRE

PEOPLE AND GIVE THEM HONEST

WORK, AND I'M SURE THAT THERE'S

PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD WANT

THE TRASH HAULING JOBS AND SOME

OF THE OTHER 800 JOBS.

IT'S --

>> I'M NOT SURE THAT IT'S A

MATTER OF THE CITY NOT TRYING.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TALK

ABOUT TRASH HAULERS AND WE'RE

TALKING ABOUT POLICE OFFICERS

AND HOW FAR DOWN WE ARE ON THAT

SCORE AND THE I.T. NEEDS OF THE

CITY, THERE ARE -- AS CHARLIE

SAID, AS YOU'VE ALL AGREED,

THERE ARE ALMOST 1,000 POSITIONS

OPEN IN THE CITY.

AND THEY -- PEOPLE OBVIOUSLY

DON'T WANT THAT KIND OF WORK.

>> WELL, I CAN SEE I.T. -- I CAN

SEE A SHORTAGE OF I.T. WORKERS

BECAUSE MAYBE AN I.T. WORKER

COULD MAKE MORE IN PRIVATE

INDUSTRY.

AND LIKE I SAID, I CAN SEE THE

PROBLEM WITH THE POLICE

DEPARTMENT.

BUT I DON'T SEE THE PROBLEM

HIRING TRASH HAULERS.

>> THEY DON'T WANT TO --

>> THAT'S A GOOD JOB, WENDY.

>> LINDA THOMAS FROM THE

PERSONNEL DEPARTMENT, IN THE

POST-DISPATCH A COUPLE WEEKS

AGO, SAID BECAUSE OF FEDERAL

BENEFITS, THEY'RE COMING FROM

WASHINGTON, D.C., PEOPLE ARE NOT

AS MOTIVATED TO APPLY FOR SOME

OF THESE JOBS.

I BELIEVE SHE MADE HER COMMENTS

IN A POST-DISPATCH STORY WHEN IT

WAS DESCRIBED HOW THEY COULDN'T

FIND 911 DISPATCHERS.

>> BUT THEY'VE HAD THIS PROBLEM

LONG BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, LONG

BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT WAS GIVING

$300 A WEEK EXTRA ON

UNEMPLOYMENT.

THE 911 STUFF, THAT WENT SOUTH

AS SOON AS THE CITY GOT CONTROL

OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

YOU KNOW, THEY SUDDENLY STRIPPED

A LOT OF 911 WORKERS AND I'M

SURE WE'VE BEEN SHORT GARBAGE

HAULERS FOR A LONG TIME AS WELL.

>> I THINK WHAT THEY -- IF YOU

WAIVED THE DRUG TEST FOR A LOT

OF JOBS, A LOT MORE PEOPLE WOULD

APPLY.

THAT'S JUST THE REALITY.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

>> AND THEN, TOO, I WANTED TO BE

A JOURNALIST SINCE I WAS 12, BUT

THE FIRST JOB -- AND MY MOM --

HI, MOM -- AS MY WITNESS,

5-YEAR-OLD ALVIN THOUGHT THE

COOLEST THING IN THE WORLD WOULD

BE TO BE A GARBAGE MAN, AND I

KNOW THEY'RE SANITATION WORKERS

NOW, THAT'S HOW WE KNOW THEM,

BECAUSE THEY GOT TO RIDE ON THE

BACK OF THE TRUCK.

NOW, TIMES HAVE CHANGED.

NOW I'M KIND OF LIKE THIS.

GOOD-PAYING JOB WITH BENEFITS?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE

ARE HESITANT TO, YOU KNOW, LIKE

FULFILL SOME OF THESE JOBS.

I MEAN, I DON'T GET IT.

>> BUT ME --

>> THE COMPUTER SYSTEM GOES BACK

TO --

>> WE'VE ALL SEEN THE ONLINE

REPORT OF PEOPLE SAYING THAT

THEY'RE GIVING UP THEIR --

THEY'RE GIVING UP THEIR WHITE

COLLAR JOBS, THEY'RE GIVING UP

THEIR CORPORATE JOBS BECAUSE

THEY DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH THE

ADVERSITY IN THE WORKPLACE, AND

I MEAN, THOSE ARE ACTUAL TERMS

THAT ARE BEING THROWN AROUND.

ADVERSITY IN THE WORKPLACE.

I MEAN, THAT'S -- TO ME, THAT'S

PART OF GOING TO WORK.

THERE'S GOING TO BE ADVERSITY,

YOU KNOW.

YOU'RE PAID TO DO A JOB, SO IT

SONET DEEM TO BE AN AND --

DOESN'T SEEM TO BE AN APPETITE

FOR IT.

>> HEY, WHILE WE'RE TALKING

ABOUT THE CITY AND WE'LL MOVE ON

TO OTHER REGIONAL ISSUES IN JUST

A MOMENT, ALVIN REID, THIS PAST

WEEK MAYOR TISHAURA JONES AND

CONGRESSMAN CORI BUSH VISITED

DENVER TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE

STAR PROGRAM THERE.

STAR STANDS FOR SUPPORT TEAM

ASSISTANCE RESPONSE, A PROGRAM

THAT SENDS SOCIAL WORKERS TO

SOME, I GUESS -- TO SOME SITES

THAT ORDINARILY WOULD HAVE BEEN

VISITED BY POLICE.

IN THIS CASE, IT'S TRESPASSING

OR WELFARE ISSUES OR IT COULD BE

A SYRINGE FOUND ON THE STREET,

THINGS LIKE THAT.

NOT THE MOST SERIOUS CRIMES.

MAYOR LYDA KREWSON HAD TWO PILOT

PROGRAMS ALONG THESE LINES.

LET ME ASK YOU.

DO YOU THINK THIS TRIP WILL BEAR

FRUIT?

>> I THINK IT COULD.

I THINK YOU GO TO -- GO FOR

WHAT'S THE SUCCESSFUL FORECAST

AND YOU GO AND FIND OUT WHAT

THEY'RE DOING.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT

THE MAYOR AND CORI BUSH AND A

LOT OF POLITICIANS THAT ARE

REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATIC

ACTUALLY KIND OF ADHERE TO,

MAYBE WE DON'T NEED TO SEND THE

POLICE TO EVERY SITUATION.

AND TO FIND OUT THE BEST WAY TO

DO IT ON A TRIP TO DENVER, I

MEAN, EVEN IF THEY -- YOU KNOW,

OVERNIGHT, I REALLY DON'T THINK

THAT'S SETTING THE WHOLE BUDGET

BACK THAT MUCH.

NOW, DON'T HOLD ME TO THIS, BUT

I BELIEVE THERE MAY HAVE BEEN

SOME TRIPS INVOLVED TO CHINA AND

PLACES LIKE THAT DURING PREVIOUS

ADMINISTRATIONS, YOU KNOW, WHEN

WE'RE GOING TO BE THE TRADE

PARTNER WITH CHINA AND --

>> CHINA HUB.

>> YEAH, EXACTLY, AND WHERE DID

THAT GO AND WHERE DID A LOT OF

PROJECT WHERE I'M SURE A LOT OF

VISITING WENT ON THAT WERE MUCH,

MUCH MORE COSTLY THAN AN

OVERNIGHT TRIP TO DENVER.

>> I DON'T EVEN THINK IT'S -- GO

AHEAD, RAY, I'M SORRY.

>> NO, YOU'RE GOOD.

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S A MATTER

OF MONEY.

I JUST THINK IT'S -- I THINK

IT'S THE APPLES/ORANGES

COMPARISON.

ST. LOUIS IS IN THE MIDDLE OF A

CRISIS IN TERMS OF CRIME AND

HOMICIDE NUMBERS, AND DENVER IS

NOT ON ANY OF THE FBI'S MOST

DANGEROUS CITIES LISTS.

SO I COULD CARE LESS WHAT IT

COSTS TO GO OUT THERE.

I JUST -- I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S

AN APPLICABLE -- THE STAR

PROGRAM IS APPLICABLE TO WHAT

WE'RE DEALING WITH HERE IN

ST. LOUIS.

>> I'M SURE THEY GOT PLENTY OF

CRIME IN DENVER AND THEY'VE

GOT -- IF IT'S A BEST PRACTICES

THING, YOU CAN ARGUE SOME OF

IT'S SYMBOLIC AND POLITICAL

FIGURES GO TO THESE THINGS, BUT

I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD ALWAYS

RULE OUT TRADE STUFF BECAUSE

SOMETIMES THAT ACTUALLY, AS

FARFETCHED AS IT MAY SEEM,

SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR

CHIEF EXECUTIVES, WHETHER IT'S

THE GOVERNOR OR MAYOR, WHATEVER,

SHOW UP AND TALK TO TRADE

DELEGATIONS.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT THEY DO.

JUST BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE AN

EXOTIC TRIP DOESN'T NECESSARILY

MEAN YOU SHOULDN'T DO IT.

I MEAN, BECAUSE IF OTHER CITIES

HAVE PEOPLE GOING, THEIR MAYORS

GOING, THEY CAN MAKE A

DIFFERENCE.

YOU HAVE TO PICK -- THAT'S PART

OF -- IF GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO

BE IN THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

BUSINESS, YOU CAN'T SAY, OH NO,

WE CAN'T GO OVERSEAS BECAUSE OF

THE COST OF THE TRIP.

A LOT OF THOSE, THOSE ARE --

SOMETIMES THOSE TRIPS CAN BE

SUBSIDIZED BY PRIVATE SECTOR

FOLKS.

AND I HAVE NO -- THIS IS HARDLY

A MAJOR TRIP.

I THINK SYMBOLICALLY, IT MAKES

SENSE.

>> I NEED TO GO TO SAN FRANCISCO

AND VISIT THEIR PBS STATION, SO

CHARLIE, LET'S WORK THAT OUT,

OKAY?

>> WE'LL HAVE A GOOD TIME AT THE

DENVER PBS STATION, IF YOU

FOLLOW MY DRIFT.

>> I WOULD TAKE IT.

>> I THINK IT'S GREAT THAT

THEY'RE LEARNING BEST PRACTICES

AND I DON'T THINK THE COST

MATTERS AT ALL, BUT WENDY, YOU

HAVE A POINT.

LAST YEAR DENVER HAD ABOUT 90

HOSM SIDES.

THEIR POPULATION IS ABOUT

70,000.

IN A TYPICAL YEAR, DENVER HAS

ABOUT 60 HOMICIDE AND YEAR, SO

IT IS KIND OF APPLES AND ORANGES

BECAUSE WE HAD 260 HOMICIDES.

WE WERE DEALING WITH REAL

VIOLENT CRIME THAT DENVER

DOESN'T SEE AND THE STAR PROGRAM

HAD ABOUT 1300 RESPONSES LAST

YEAR WHICH, WOW, THAT'S A

FRACTION OF THE CALLS THAT

POLICE AT THE ST. LOUIS

METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT

HAVE TO RESPOND TO.

>> IF YOU WANT -- IF YOU'RE

GOING FOR BEST PRACTICES, WOULD

YOU WANT SOMEBODY THAT'S HAVING

BETTER OUTCOMES?

I DON'T THINK THAT -- THE IDEA

THAT DENVER IS SOME PLACE WHERE,

YOU KNOW -- I MEAN, I'VE BEEN

THERE.

DENVER IS GREAT.

THERE'S ALL KINDS OF PRACTICES

THAT GO INTO PRIMARY, BUT THE

FACT THAT THEY HAVE A LOW ONE IS

NOT AN ARGUMENT NOT TO GO.

>> THEY HAVE 700,000 PEOPLE, WE

HAVE 300,000 IN OUR CITY.

>> IT'S NOT APPLES AND ORANGES.

>> CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.

ISN'T THERE A GUY BY THE NAME OF

WILL PINCKNEY WITH THE MAYOR'S

OFFICE?

HE LAUNCHED THIS PROGRAM A

COUPLE OF TIMES IN ST. LOUIS AND

HE'S A FORMER NEW YORK COP WHO I

THINK WAS PROFILED IN ONE LOCAL

PAPER RECENTLY IF I'M NOT

MISTAKEN.

HEY, LET'S TALK TO YOU, WENDY

WIESE, ABOUT WHAT I THINK IS A

TRULY UNPRECEDENTED STORY.

THIS IS A BATTLE BETWEEN THE

NATURAL RESOURCE DEFENSE COUNCIL

AND FIRE.

FIRE HAS A SUBSIDIARY THAT RUNS

A PIPELINE BETWEEN HERE AND IT

GOES THROUGH ILLINOIS, UP NORTH

TO GET SOME OF THAT FRACKING

NATURAL GAS, AND THAT FIRE

PIPELINE WAS REVIEWED BY THE

FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY

COMMISSION AND APPROVED.

HOWEVER, JUST RECENTLY, THE

WASHINGTON, D.C., COURT OF

APPEALS DECIDED TO REVOKE THE

CERTIFICATION FOR THAT PIPELINE,

SAYING THAT FERC, THE REGULATORY

BODY, DID NOT FOLLOW ITS OWN

RULES.

AND AS A RESULT, THERE'S A STORY

IN SUNDAY'S POST-DISPATCH THAT

THIS PIPELINE BRINGING NATURAL

GAS TO ST. LOUIS MIGHT BE

MOTHBALLED AND THEY'RE EVEN

TALKING ABOUT FILLING IT WITH

SAND BECAUSE IMPLODING IT WOULD

BE ANOTHER ENVIRONMENTAL

DISASTER.

HOW DO YOU FEEL?

DO YOU THINK THAT SINCE THE

REGULATORY BODY VIOLATED ITS OWN

RULES, ALLEGEDLY, THAT THE

PIPELINE SHOULD BE TAKEN DOWN?

>> WELL, I MEAN, SHAME ON THE

REGULATORY BODY THEN.

BUT YOU DON'T PENALIZE THE

NATURAL GAS CUSTOMERS HERE IN

THE MIDWEST.

THE WHOLE POINT WAS TO AVOID A

SITUATION OR THEY HAD AVOIDED A

SITUATION SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SAW

IN TEXAS IN FEBRUARY DURING A

DEEP FREEZE IN WHICH PEOPLE LOST

THEIR LIVES, PEOPLE WERE FOR A

VARIETY OF DIFFERENT REASONS AND

THINGS THAT THEY HAD SIGNED UP

FOR IN TERMS OF BUDGET BILLING,

THEY WERE RECEIVING 12 AND

$15,000 UTILITY BILLS.

AND I'M SORRY THAT SOME OF THE

MARKET ANALYSIS THAT SHOULD HAVE

BEEN PERFORMED WASN'T PERFORMED,

BUT THAT'S NOT, IN MY WAY OF

LOOKING AT THINGS, THAT'S NOT ON

FIRE.

THAT'S ON FERC.

>> WELL, THAT'S -- I MEAN, THIS

ISN'T SOME, LIKE, LIBERAL THINK

TANK THAT MADE THIS DECISION.

THE COURT OF APPEALS, OKAY?

THESE ARE JUDGES LOOKING AT THE

LAW AS TO HOW -- AND OBVIOUSLY

THEY WERE REVIEWING IT IF

THEY'RE APPELLATE JUDGES.

I DON'T KNOW WHICH SIDE

APPEALED, BUT THEY LOOKED AT THE

LAW AS IT WAS APPLIED BY LOWER

COURT JUDGES AND MADE A

DECISION.

YOU CAN SAY SHAME ON THEM.

IF THEY DIDN'T DO IT RIGHT, THEN

THE JUDGES ARE SAYING YOU GOT TO

DO IT RIGHT.

IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S SOME

WRONGDOING BY THE APPELLATE

COURT.

>> I THINK THIS IS INTENDED TO

HAVE A CHILLING IMPACT ON

ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO INVEST IN

PIPELINES, PERIOD.

PERIOD.

>> YOU CAN'T REFUTE THE LAW,

WENDY.

THESE ARE JUDGES.

THE APPELLATE COURT HAS GOT TO

BE REVIEWING BY DEFINITION A

LOWER COURT THAT FOUND THAT THE

REGULATORS -- AND IT'S NOT

EXACTLY A NEWS FLASH THAT IN THE

TRUMP ERA, THE REGULATORS WERE

LOOKING THE OTHER WAY.

THEY'RE SAYING YOU CAN'T DO

THAT, AND SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND

WHAT THE ARGUMENT IS WITH -- IS

THE ARGUMENT THAT THE JUDGES

SHOULD LOOK THE OTHER WAY TOO?

THEY JUST ENFORCE THE LAW.

>> DONE!

IT'S DONE.

THE PIPELINE -- I MEAN, IT'S

COMPLETED.

IT'S DELIVERING NATURAL GAS.

>> WELL, THEY FOLLOWED THE LAW

AND IF THE REGULATORS DIDN'T,

THEN IT'S THE RIGHT DECISION AND

WE -- WE CAN'T HAVE EVERY

DECISION COME DOWN TO, WELL, YOU

KNOW, IT'S BETTER FOR OUR

ECONOMY.

THERE IS THE ENVIRONMENTAL

CONCERNS AND THEY'RE THERE FOR A

REASON AND IF THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW

THE RULES, THEN THIS IS THE

RIGHT DECISION.

>> POLITICS DOESN'T PLAY INTO

THIS AT ALL, RIGHT, RAY?

THIS IS PURELY LEGAL.

>> WITH THE COURT OF APPEALS?

I DON'T THINK SO.

MAYBE IT DID.

>> OKAY, OKAY.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

AGAIN, THE COURT OF APPEALS,

WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, NOT REALLY

KNOWN AS BEING ALL THAT

LIBERAL --

>> LET ME JUST JUMP IN.

>> REVIEWING A LOWER COURT'S

DECISION ABOUT WHETHER THE LAW

WAS FOLLOWED.

IF IT WASN'T, THEN YOU GOT TO

EITHER FOLLOW THE LAW OR DUMP

SAND IN IT, I GUESS.

>> WELL, TRULY UNPRECEDENTED.

I'VE NEVER HEARD OF A GAS

PIPELINE BEING MOTH BALLED.

WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS, RAY.

WHILE WE HAVE YOU FRONT AND

CENTER, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE

SENTENCE THIS WEEK OF RANDY

HAYES, THE ST. LOUIS POLICE

OFFICER WHO PUBLIC HEALTH

PLEADED GUILTY IN THE BEATING OF

HIS COLLEAGUE, MR. LUTHER HALL,

AND HE RECEIVED FOUR YEARS.

A JUST SENTENCE?

>> WELL, IT GOES BY -- IT'S A

FEDERAL CASE, SO IT GOES BY THE

POINT SYSTEM.

THERE'S POINTS ADDED FOR

COOPERATION, POINTS TAKEN AWAY

FOR THIS AND POINTS ADDED FOR

THAT.

THEY START WITH A RANGE AND, YOU

KNOW, THERE'S NOT THAT MUCH

SUBJECTIVITY.

THERE'S SOME, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE

JUDGE -- I HAVE TO SAY, I WAS

SURPRISED BY IT.

I THOUGHT IT WAS MORE THAN I

THOUGHT HE WOULD GET.

I WOULD BE CONCERNED IF I WAS

DUSTIN BOONE WHO BASICALLY WAS

TRIED FOR THE SAME -- IF THE

PAPER HAD IT RIGHT, PRETTY MUCH

TRIED ON THE SAME CHARGES THAT

MR. HAYES WAS JUST SENTENCED,

AND HE COOPERATED.

I WOULDN'T BE SLEEPING TOO WELL

IF I WAS, YOU KNOW, HAD THIS

GONE TO A JURY TRIAL AND BEEN

FOUND GUILTY OF THOSE.

BUT ONCE AGAIN, YOU DON'T KNOW

WHERE BOONE VERSUS HAYES ARE ON

THE SENTENCING GUIDELINES.

IT'S A LOT OF -- A LOT OF IT IS

NOT SUBJECTIVE.

SOME OF IT IS, BUT THEY'VE GOT A

RANGE AND HE STAYED WITHIN THE

RANGE.

THE PROSECUTORS WANTED SIX.

AGAIN, I WAS SURPRISED BY IT,

BUT --

>> HOW ABOUT YOU, BILL

McCLELLAN?

>> I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, THE

SUBJECTIVE PART, I DON'T -- THE

WHOLE POINT OF GETTING PEOPLE TO

TESTIFY IS YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE

THEM A BREAK ON THE SENTENCING,

ESPECIALLY IN A CASE LIKE THIS

WHERE IT'S A COP TESTIFYING

AGAINST OTHER COPS, AND I HATE

TO SEE THE GUY WHO TESTIFIED

GETTING MORE TIME THAN THE

PEOPLE WHO WITH -- PEOPLE WHO

WENT TO TRIAL.

IF WHAT WE WANT IN THE FUTURE IS

OTHER COPS TO TESTIFY ABOUT BAD

CONDUCT OF THEIR COLLEAGUES,

THIS ISN'T A VERY GOOD WAY TO DO

IT.

>> IF A JUDGE GOES ABOVE OR

BELOW THE -- THE WAY I

UNDERSTAND IT, PARTICULARLY

ABOVE IT, YOU -- AND I AGREE

WITH YOU, BASICALLY.

SURE, YOU WOULD EXPECT.

THAT'S WHY I SAY I WOULD THINK

MR. BOON HAS GOT TO BE CONCERNED

ABOUT THAT PERHAPS, ALTHOUGH I

DON'T KNOW IF IT WORKS THAT WAY.

IT IS THE POINT SYSTEM.

IT IS THE GUIDELINES.

IF THE JUDGE VIOLATES --

>> BUT THEY CAN GO ABOVE AND

BELOW, RAY.

>> BUT IF THEY DO --

>> NOT ONLY CAN THEY GO ABOVE OR

BELOW, BUT LIKE JOHN RALLO, IF

LATER RANDY HAYES HAS HE HAS

SOME SORT OF ILLNESS, WHO KNOWS

IF HE'LL GET OUT OR IF HE GOES

TO SOME SORT OF REHAB PROGRAM

LIKE STEVE STENGER DID, MAYBE

HE'LL BE OUT IN TWO YEARS.

>> I'M NOT EVEN DEFENDING THE

JUDGE.

I'M JUST SAYING IF THEY DO,

THEY'RE MORE SUBJECT TO GETTING

OVERTURN TO APPEAL AND A LOT OF

JUDGES DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN

TO THEM.

>> OKAY, SPEAKING OF THE COURTS,

BILL, EUGENE KROGG JR. RELEASED

A EXPLETIVE IN COURT, BASICALLY

EXPLETIVE YOU, THIS JUDGE GAVE

THE ATTORNEY A WEEK IN JAIL FOR

CURSING AT HIM.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW EITHER OF

THOSE FELLOWS.

I CALLED UP A GOOD FRIEND OF

MINE AND HE DIDN'T KNOW THE

LAWYER AND HE DIDN'T KNOW THE

JUDGE, BUT HE KNEW THE CURSOR

AND HE SAID THAT YOU -- 75 YEARS

OLD, YOUNG MAN IN HIS PRIME, AND

HE SAID THAT HE'S A GOOD FELLOW

AND HE SAID, I'D REALLY LIKE TO

KNOW WHAT WAS BEHIND THIS.

BUT AS FAR AS THE JUDGE PUTTING

THE GUY IN JAIL, I THINK THAT

THERE SHOULD BE DECORUM IN COURT

AND LIKE I THINK A JUDGE, YOU

KNOW, OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO SAY TO

SOMEBODY, I DON'T LIKE THE WAY

YOU'RE DRESSED.

THAT'S NOT RESPECTFUL TO THE

COURT.

AND IF SOMEBODY CURSES AT A

JUDGE, I THINK THE JUDGE IS WELL

WITHIN HIS OR HER RIGHTS TO SAY

I'M NOT GOING TO TOLERATE THAT

AND TO THROW THE GUY IN JAIL.

I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH

THAT.

>> WELL, I JUST THINK A WEEK IS

TOO MUCH.

IF HE TOLD HIM, HEY, GO TO HADES

AND GET ONE DAY, TOLD HIM TO

KISS SOMETHING, YOU GET THREE

DAYS.

IT WASN'T JUST THE EXTREME

LANGUAGE HE USED.

I KNOW SOMEBODY WHO HAD JURY

DUTY THIS WEEK AND SOMEBODY IN

THE LARGE JURY FOOL REFUSED TO

PUT -- POOL REFUSED TO PUT A

MASK ON.

APPARENTLY THEY TALKED TO HIM

AND JUST ESCORTED HIM OUT OF THE

BUILDING.

TO ME, HE SHOULD HAVE GOT A

WEEK.

>> MAYBE A WEEK IS A LITTLE

LONG, ALVIN, BUT IF I WAS A

JUDGE, I'D WANT IT KNOWN THAT

YOU DON'T COME IN AND CURSE AT

ME BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE MY

DECISIONS.

>> WHY DID -- WHO CUSSED OUT

THE LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE DURING

THE ERIC GREITENS STUFF?

WHAT ATTORNEY WAS THAT?

WAS IT AL WATKINS?

NOTHING HAPPENED TO HIM.

>> I AGREE WITH ALVIN THAT IT

SEEMS A LITTLE MUCH, A WEEK.

A LITTLE SHOCK TIME FOR 24

HOURS, BUT I THINK YOU MAKE A

CASE FOR MAYBE THERE NEEDS TO BE

SENTENCING GUIDELINES FOR CURSE

WORDS, YOU KNOW.

LIKE HAVE A SCALE.

GEORGE CARLIN'S SEVEN DIRTY

WORDS GET A CERTAIN --

>> I REMEMBER BEING IN COURT

WHEN A DEFENDANT SAID TO THE

JUDGE, YOU'RE A LYING SOB AND

THE JUDGE JUST IGNORED HIM AND

HE SAID YOU'RE A PERSIDIOUS SOB

AND THE JUDGE SENT HIM TO JAIL.

I ASKED THE JUDGE ABOUT IT AND

HE SAID I CAN IGNORE IT, BUT IF

I HAVE TO LOOK UP A WORD, HE'S

GOING TO JAIL.

>> WELL, JUSTICE IS SACRED.

YOU HAVE THESE COURTHOUSE

SHOOTINGS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT

DECORUM, BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE

SOCKED HIM WITH A FINE AS WELL.

>> SO MUCH FOR FREEDOM OF SPEECH

IN A COURTROOM.

THANK YOU, EVERYBODY, FOR YOUR

OPINION.

DON'T GO AWAY.

IN A MOMENT, WE'RE GOING TO TALK

ABOUT MAKING OUR AREA WALKABLE

AND BIKEABLE AND HOW THAT NIGHT

NEED TO MORE ECONOMIC

DEVELOPMENT.

CINDY MENSE OF TRAILNET AND

SARAH ARNOSKY OF GREATER

ST. LOUIS INC. ARE JOINING OUR

FOUNDERS, BILL McCLELLAN AND RAY

HARTMANN, ON DONNYBROOK NEXT UP.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE

POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE

BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON

FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF

NINE PBS.

>> WELCOME TO NEXT UP.

WE'RE JOINED TONIGHT BY CINDY

MENSE OF TRAILNET AND SARAH

ARNOSKY OF GREATER ST. LOUIS,

INC.

WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> SO TELL US, YOU'RE INVOLVED

IN THE BUSINESS OF MAKING

ST. LOUIS A BIKING AND WALKABLE

REGION.

TELL US HOW YOU'RE GOING ABOUT

DOING THAT.

>> GREAT.

THANKS, RAY.

I'LL GET STARTED.

I'M CINDY MENSE, THE CEO OF

TRAILNET, AND TRAIL NET, WE'RE A

32-YEAR-OLD ORGANIZATION IN

ST. LOUIS, A BIKEABLE/PEDESTRIAN

ADVOCACY ORG.

IT WORKS TO MAKE THE STREETS

SAFER FOR PEOPLE TO WALKING

BIKE, AND USE TRANSIT AS A WAY

OF LIFE.

WE HAVE A TERRIFIC PARTNERSHIP

WITH GREATER ST. LOUIS, INC., ON

TRYING TO MOVE BETTER

INFRASTRUCTURE FORWARD.

SARAH?

>> THANKS, CINDY.

YEAH, MY NAME IS SARAH ARNOSKY,

I'M VICE PRESIDENT OF GREATER

ST. LOUIS INC.

I BELIEVE YOU HAD OUR CEO, JASON

HALL, ON THE SHOW A COUPLE WEEKS

AGO.

HAPPY TO BE HERE.

AS CINDY MENTIONED, FROM OUR

PERSPECTIVE OF GREATER

ST. LOUIS, INC., WHICH IS AN

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CIVIC

ORGANIZATION, WE RECOGNIZE THE

VALUE OF HAVING A BIKE AND

PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY COMMUNITY

AND HOW THAT CONTRIBUTES IN MANY

WAYS, BUT PARTICULARLY IT'S

ECONOMIC IMPACT.

AND SO REALLY WANTING TO PLAY A

CRITICAL ROLE AND HELP GET

THINGS MOVING FORWARD TO MAKE

SURE WE ARE KEEPING UP WITH OUR

PEER CITIES AND MAKING ST. LOUIS

ONE OF THE BEST BIKING

COMMUNITIES AND CITIES AROUND

THE -- REGIONS, REALLY, AROUND

THE COUNTRY.

>> YOU INDICATED YOU'RE 32 --

BILL, GO AHEAD.

>> NO, I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY,

I LOVE TO WALK.

I'M A WALKER, AND WHEN I WAS

WORKING DOWNTOWN ALL THE TIME, I

WOULD OFTEN GO AND WALK ALONG

THE RIVER.

THERE'S A RIVER TRAIL JUST NORTH

OF DOWNTOWN, AND I'D WALK DOWN

TO PRODUCE ROW SOMETIMES, AND

THE PROBLEM WITH IT IS THE FLOOD

WALL GENERALLY SEPARATES THE

WALKER OR THE BIKER.

THERE WOULD BE BICYCLISTS, FROM

THE RIVER.

I THINK TO MYSELF, HERE'S THIS

GREAT RESOURCE, THE RIVER, AND

I'M ON THE RIVER TRAIL, BUT I

CAN'T SEE THE RIVER MOST OF THE

TIME.

I MEAN, HOW CAN WE UTILIZE OUR

RIVER A LITTLE BIT BETTER?

>> YEAH, THAT'S A REALLY GREAT

QUESTION.

SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW -- ONE

OF THE THINGS THAT GREATER

ST. LOUIS, INC., HAS ALSO PAR

TAKEN IN THE DESIGN OF DOWNTOWN

ST. LOUIS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

ONE OF THE KEY STRATEGIES THAT

WAS IDENTIFIED WAS HOW DO WE

RE-ENGAGE AND CELEBRATE OUR

CONNECTION TO THE RIVER.

SO YOU DO HAVE THE GREENWAY THAT

GOES ALONG THE RIVER, BUT I

TOTALLY HEAR YOU THAT THERE'S A

WALL THAT DOES BLOCK THE VIEW

AND THAT CONNECTION TO THE

RIVER.

I KNOW THAT THERE'S BEEN A LOT

OF DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES.

I KNOW THAT CINDY AT TRAILNET,

THEY HELP COLLECT FOLKS TO GO ON

RIVER RIDES.

I DON'T KNOW IF, CINDY, YOU WANT

TO SPEAK TO THAT AS WELL.

>> SURE.

I JUST WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT

THE RIVERFRONT TRAIL IS A TRAIL

THAT TRAILNET ESTABLISHED IN

PARTNERSHIP WITH THE CITY OF

ST. LOUIS MANY YEARS AGO, SO

THAT'S A LEGACY PROJECT OF OURS.

IT DOES NEED -- IT NEEDS CARE

AND ATTENTION SO THAT PEOPLE

CONTINUE TO USE IT AND FEEL SAFE

IN THAT AREA.

IT DOES CONTINUE TO BE A BIT OF

A CHALLENGE.

WHEN THE RIVERFRONT WAS REDONE,

WE DO HAVE SOME REALLY GREAT

INFRASTRUCTURE THAT TRB PUT IN

ALONG LEWIS K. SULLIVAN DRIVE

AND THAT CERTAINLY HAS HELPED

WITH THAT CONNECTION.

>> FOR THOSE THAT DON'T FOLLOW

YOUR WORK, HOW MUCH -- THERE'S

TOO MANY PEOPLE THAT DON'T

REALLY KEEP UP WITH EVERYTHING

THAT'S GOING ON.

HOW MUCH DIFFERENT IS ST. LOUIS

TODAY THAN IN 1989 WHEN TRAILNET

WAS FOUNDED?

WHAT -- CAN YOU POINT TO, WHAT

HAVE WE DONE TO DEVELOP OVER

THAT PERIOD?

>> SURE.

SO ST. LOUIS HAS REALLY CHANGED

OVER THE YEARS.

ONE THING THAT WE KNOW IS THAT

POPULATION-WISE, THIS CITY WAS

BUILT FOR ABOUT A MILLION PEOPLE

AND AS WE LOSE POPULATION, WE

STILL HAVE THESE ROADWAYS, THESE

BIG WIDE ROADWAYS WHERE THE

STREETCARS USED TO BE, SO YOU'VE

GOT STREETS THAT ARE 40 AND 50

FEET WIDE THAT ARE ACTUALLY

CONNECTING JUST NEIGHBORHOODS.

AND SO WE HAVE THIS GREAT STREET

GRID THAT ALSO CAN BE -- THE

STREET GRID COULD BE USED IN A

WAY TO MAKE SURE ROOM FOR

PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS TO FEEL

SAFER ON THE ROADWAYS.

SO WE'RE MAINTAINING A LOT OF

ROADWAY AND THERE'S ROOM TO ADD

IN INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WOULD

MAKE IT SAFER FOR PEOPLE WALKING

AND BIKING.

SO THE CHANGES THAT HAVE

HAPPENED OVER THE YEARS, WE USED

TO BE HAPPY WITH JUST A PAINTED

BIKE LANE ON THE ROAD OR SOME

SHARROWS, BUT THE NATIONAL

ASSOCIATION OF TRANSPORTATION

OFFICIALS HAVE UPGRADED THE TYPE

OF INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS GOING

TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFEST.

AND SO NOW WHAT WE'RE LOOKING

FOR ARE WHAT WE CALL PROTECTED

BIKE LANES OR CYCLE TRACKS.

SO THAT WAS -- THAT'S A PROJECT

THAT, TOGETHER WITH GREATER

ST. LOUIS, INC., TRAILNET HELPED

PROMOTE THIS TOWER GROVE

CONNECTOR.

YOU ARE GOING TO SEE SOME OF THE

BEST INFRASTRUCTURE IN ST. LOUIS

FOR KEEPING FOLKS SAFE WHILE

WALKING AND BIKING WHERE THEY'RE

PHYSICALLY SEPARATED FROM

TRAFFIC.

THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF

INFRASTRUCTURE NOW THAT WE'RE

SEEING MORE AND MORE OF.

THERE'S ONE PLANNED FOR 20th

STREET, ONE PLANNED FOR TUCKER

BOULEVARD.

BOTH OF THOSE ARE FUNDED AS WELL

AS TOWER GROVE, THE TOWER GROVER

CONNECTOR.

SO WE'RE STARTING TO SEE A SHIFT

IN THAT DIRECTION.

MAYBE YOU LIVE BY UNION

BOULEVARD.

THE CITY HAS PUT IN A PROTECTED

BIKEWAY AND THEY'RE TESTING OUT

NEW INFRASTRUCTURE.

THESE THINGS ARE CALLED

ARMADILLOS, THESE RUBBER

PROTECTORS THAT ARE IN THE

STREET OR THESE MOUNDS THAT

WOULD KEEP CARS FROM GOING INTO

THE BIKE LANE.

SO IT USED TO BE ENOUGH JUST TO

HAVE ROOM FOR A BIKE, BUT NOW

WITH THE SIZE OF CARS AND

DISTRACTED DRIVING, WHAT PEOPLE

REALLY ARE DESIRING IS MORE

PROTECTED INFRASTRUCTURE AND

IT'S JUST REALLY EXCITING TO SEE

AN ORGANIZATION LIKE GREATER

ST. LOUIS, INC., EMBRACE THIS

TYPE OF INFRASTRUCTURE.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, WE'D LOVE TO

SEE -- YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT

THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT THE MDA IS

GOING TO, 20th STREET IS A

DIRECT ROUTE UP TO THAT.

THE NEW JOBS AT THE MDA, BUT

ALSO HOW THAT'S GOING TO SPUR

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ALONG 20th

STREET.

WE'VE SEEN THAT IN A LOT OF

OTHER COMMUNITIES WHERE YOU'RE

CREATING THIS AMENITY THAT IS

EXCITING FOR PEOPLE THAT ALREADY

LIVE THERE, BUT ALSO ATTRACTS

NEW RESIDENTS AND EMPLOYEES,

WHICH THEN ATTRACTS EMPLOYERS,

WHICH THEN ATTRACTS INVESTMENT

AND MORE TAX REVENUE.

IT'S REALLY A CYCLICAL PROCESS

THAT DOES HAVE MULTIPLE BENEFITS

IN ADDITION TO CREATING A SAFE

ROUTE TO GET FROM POINT A TO

POINT B.

>> AND RAY, MOST OF THESE

CONNECTIONS ARE CONNECTING NORTH

AND SOUTH INTO AREAS OF

STRENGTH.

SO ST. LOUIS TENDS TO BE AN

EAST-WEST CITY, RIGHT?

OUR BEST CONNECTIONS, YOU'RE

GOING TO SEE GOING EAST TO WEST.

SO A LOT OF TIMES NORTH AND

SOUTH IS CUT OUT.

SO BEING ABLE TO HAVE THIS TYPE

OF INFRASTRUCTURE TO CONNECT

PEOPLE INTO AREAS OF STRENGTH,

CONNECT THEM INTO TRANSIT, CAN

REALLY BE A GAME CHANGER.

>> WILL YOU BE, LIKE, RUNNING

BIKE PATHS LIKE WHERE THE MDA

IS?

IS THAT --

>> 20th STREET IS --

>> WHAT'S THAT?

>> 20th STREET HAS BEEN FUNDED.

>> HOW FAR NORTH DOES IT GO?

>> IT WILL REACH THE MDA.

STARTING NOW IN JEFFERSON AND

20th STREET AND PRIMARILY IT

WILL BE A PROTECTED CYCLE TRACK,

BUT THEIR DESIGN STILL NEEDS TO

HAPPEN.

>> AND HOW FAR SOUTH --

>> WE NEED TO MEET WITH THE

COMMUNITY TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT

WHAT THEIR NEEDS ARE.

>> AND HOW ABOUT SOUTH?

THE SAME WAY, DID YOU DETERMINE

HOW FAR --

>> THAT WILL BE TO UNION

STATION.

>> YEAH, THAT WILL BE A NICE

CONNECTION INTO THE OTHER MAJOR

GREENWAY, THE BROOKLINE

GREENWAY, SO REALLY THINKING AS

CINDY MENTIONED, HOW ARE WE

KNITTING NEIGHBORHOODS NORTH AND

SOUTH AND BEING IN CLOSE

PARTNERSHIP WITH THE FOLKS OVER

AT THE GREENWAY TO MAKE SURE

THESE ALL COMPLEMENT EACH OTHER

AND CREATE A BROADER NETWORK

THROUGHOUT THE CITY.

>> TO GO A LITTLE FURTHER

AFIELD, THERE'S THE KATY TRAIL,

CHI LIKE IT IMMENSELY -- WHICH

I LIKE THE KATY TRAIL IMMENSELY

AND I'VE WALKED IT A LONG WAY,

BUT DO WE HAVE A WAY TO

BICYCLISTS TO GET FROM ST. LOUIS

TO THE KATY TRAIL EASILY?

I'M NOT A BICYCLIST, BUT FOR THE

BICYCLIST TO GET TO THE KATY

TRAIL AND ZIP DOWN TO DEFIANCE

OR HERMAN SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT

TRIP AND I DON'T KNOW HOW EASY

IT IS TO GET FROM THE CITY TO

THE KATY TRAIL ON A BICYCLE.

>> THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION,

BILL.

OBVIOUSLY IF YOU START IN

ST. CHARLES WHERE THE TRAIL

STARTS --

>> THAT'S WHERE I START WALKING,

BUT I DRIVE TO ST. CHARLES.

FRIENDS WHO ARE CYCLISTS, HOW

WOULD YOU BICYCLE THERE?

>> PERSONALLY, I'VE TAKEN THE

BUS TO CHESTERFIELD AND HOPPED

ON TO THE TRAIL IN CHESTERFIELD

TO GET THERE, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT,

IT COULD CERTAINLY BE

PRIORITIZED.

SOME PEOPLE WILL USE THE TRAIN

AND THEY'LL TAKE THE TRAIN TO

WASHINGTON, MISSOURI, AND THEN

TRY AND GET TO THE TRAIL FROM

THERE IF FOLKS DON'T WANT TO GET

IN THE CAR.

HOW HAVE YOU DONE IT, SARAH?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S NOT A

GREAT CYCLING OR PEDESTRIAN

ROUTE FROM THE CITY ITSELF, BUT

YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT WITH

THE KATY TRAIL, WHAT A WONDERFUL

ASSET IT IS FOR THE REGION AND

WE DO KNOW, COMPETING WITH SITE

SELECTORS, EVERYTHING FROM THE

KATY TRAIL DOWN TO THESE SECOND

BIKEWAYS ARE JUST IMPORTANT

ASSETS SO I THINK AS YOU'RE

MENTIONING, LINKING THEM

TOGETHER WOULD BE A GREAT FUTURE

PROJECT.

>> HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHERE TO

PUT THESE?

IN OTHER WORDS, IS IT -- YOU

TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS

GREAT, BUT THESE -- IT'S SORT OF

A CHICKEN AND AN EGG QUESTION.

DO YOU LOOK FOR PLACES THAT HAVE

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TO SUPPORT

AND COVER SUCH AS LIKE FOR

EXAMPLE WHEN THE NGA IS BUILT,

YOU OBVIOUSLY WOULD HAVE A PLACE

TO GO TO, OR DOES IT GO IN THE

OTHER DIRECTION WHERE YOU JUST

DECIDE WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO AND

HOPE THAT DEVELOPMENT SPRINGS UP

AROUND IT?

>> RAY, IT REALLY BEGAN -- SO

TRAILNET BEGAN THIS EFFORT IN

2016.

WE LAUNCHED THIS BOLD VISION FOR

HOW DO WE CONNECT ST. LOUIS FOR

BETTER AND SAFER WALKING AND

BIKING.

THE PLAN WAS CALLED CONNECTING

ST. LOUIS.

IT WASN'T FUNDED BY ANYONE

EXCEPT TRAILNET MEMBERS, AND

JUST THROUGH TRAILNET GENERAL

FUNDRAISING TO DO THIS PROJECT.

AND WE WERE ABLE TO PUT THE

PEOPLE -- PUT THE PEOPLE'S IDEAS

FIRST.

WE WORKED WITH THE CITY OF

ST. LOUIS.

WE HAD EIGHT DIFFERENT

DEPARTMENTS FROM THE CITY OF

ST. LOUIS JOINING US.

JASON HALL JOINED US ON ONE OF

OUR COMMITTEES AS WELL, GREAT

RIVERS GREENWAY.

SOME OF THE UNIVERSITIES JOINED

US.

WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY BUSINESS

INTERESTS IN THIS.

IT WAS REALLY JUST ORGANIZATIONS

LOOKING AT WHAT KIND OF

INFRASTRUCTURE DO WE NEED AND

WHERE DO PEOPLE NEED TO CONNECT

FOR ACCESS TO TRANSIT AND TO

OPPORTUNITIES.

WE HAD OVER 4,000 RESPONDENTS TO

HELP US SORT THROUGH WHERE ARE

THESE OPPORTUNITY STREETS AND

WHERE DO THEY EXIST.

AND SO THROUGH THAT PROCESS, IT

TOOK US ABOUT TWO YEARS.

SEVERAL PROJECTS, SEVERAL

STREETS CAME FORWARD.

WE HAVE ABOUT 12 MILES OF

CONNECTIONS THAT WE PROPOSED,

AND THAT'S WHERE OUR PARTNERS

LIKE GREATER ST. LOUIS, INC.,

CAME IN AND SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT.

THIS CONNECTION HERE TO TOWER

GROVE PARK IS SOMETHING THAT

APPEALED TO THEM.

SO I CAN LET SARAH TALK MORE

ABOUT THAT, BUT CURRENTLY WE

HAVE ABOUT 40% OF THE ROUTES WE

PROPOSED EITHER FUNDED FOR

FEDERAL CONSTRUCTION OR THEY'RE

ABLE TO BE TAKEN UP BY ENTITIES

WHO WOULD BE ABLE TO BUILD THEM.

SO THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS MIGHT

BE LEADING THE EFFORT, FOR

INSTANCE, ON 20th STREET AND

GREAT RIVERS GREENWAY ADOPTING A

CONNECTION UP TO FAIRGROUNDS

PARK AS WELL.

SO IT'S REALLY AN IDEA THAT'S

RESONATING.

>> YEAH, PERFECT.

SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY TO THE

TOWER GROVE CONNECTOR, AGAIN,

THAT'S A 1.4-MILE PROTECTED BIKE

LANE FROM TOWER GROVE PARK ALL

THE WAY UP TO THE GROVE.

SO YOU ASK THE QUESTION, IS IT

ABOUT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, IS

IT ABOUT NEEDS.

THIS WAS ACTUALLY A REALLY

WONDERFUL ROUTE BECAUSE IT

ALREADY IS IN ONE OF THE MOST

TRAVELED BIKE ROUTES IN THE

CITY.

A LOT OF FOLKS ARE USING THAT TO

GET TO THEIR JOBS AT THE EJC

CAMPUS OR TO CORTEX, SO YOU KIND

OF ALREADY HAD A GOOD LEVEL OF

TRAFFIC HAPPENING, SO PEOPLE

WANTED TO SEE AN EVEN BETTER

INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE.

SO THEN WHAT WE ALSO LOVED ABOUT

ROUTE IS YOU'RE CONNECTING TOWER

GROVE PARK TO THE BOTANICAL

GARDEN.

ALL THE NEW LITTLE SHOPS THAT

ARE POPPING UP ON BOTANICAL

HEIGHTS, YOU HAVE ENDO AND UNION

LOAFERS AND IT'S BRAND NEW ICE

CREAM SANDWICH PLACE, ALL THESE

LITTLE INTERSECTION AND THEN YOU

GO FURTHER NORTH ITEM ALONG

VANDEVENTER, IT'S JUST RIPE WITH

POTENTIAL.

YOU ALREADY HAVE ROCKWELL

BREWERY RIGHT THERE, AND THEN

THERE'S ALL THESE OTHER IDEAS

FOR DEVELOPMENT THAT WHEN YOU

ADD SOMETHING LIKE A CYCLE TRACK

TO IT, IT JUST GETS PEOPLE EVEN

MORE EXCITED AND THEY WANT TO

INVEST AND BE A PART OF THIS

MOMENTUM THAT'S HAPPENING.

>> AND THE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT

THEY SPEND MORE MONEY.

SO PEOPLE ON BIKES STOP MORE

FREQUENTLY AND THEY SPEND MORE

MONEY BECAUSE THEY'RE SHOPPING

MORE FREQUENTLY AND GETTING TO

KNOW THINGS ON A HUMAN SCALE.

SO THEY'LL SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S

ON SALE AT THE SHOPS BECAUSE

THEY'RE MOVING SLOWLY ENOUGH TO

SEE ALL THAT AS THEY GO THROUGH.

>> SEVERAL YEARS AGO, THERE WERE

COMPETING BICYCLE RENTAL PLACES

WHERE YOU'D SEE THESE BIKES

LAYING AROUND ALL THE TIME.

I MEAN, ONE WAS LIME GREEN AND

ANOTHER WAS SOMETHING ELSE, AND

I THOUGHT, WELL, THIS IS KIND OF

EXCITING.

MORE PEOPLE BICYCLING, AND ALL

OF A SUDDEN, THEY WERE GONE.

WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT?

>> I MISS THOSE BIKES.

BUT GO AHEAD, CINDY.

>> WELL, I TELL YOU WHAT.

I'VE ALWAYS HEARD REALLY GREAT

THINGS WHEN PEOPLE SAW THE BIKE

SHARE BIKES, EVEN THE CRABBY

PEOPLE WHO WOULD LIKE, YOU BIKE

PEOPLE, WERE EXCITED ABOUT THE

BIKE SHARE BIKES.

WHAT SEEMED TO HAPPEN IS IT LAID

THE GROUNDWORK FOR THE SCOOTERS,

WHICH ARE EASIER FOR THE

COMPANIES TO PLACE.

THEY CAN PUT MORE OF THE

SCOOTERS OUT AND YOU DON'T HAVE

TO BE ABLE TO RIDE A BIKE.

SOME MORE DENSE CITIES ARE

SEEING ELECTRIC BIKES AS PART OF

THE ASSET -- THE RESOURCES THAT

ARE COMING TO THEIR CITIES.

ST. LOUIS YET HASN'T BEEN ON

THAT LIST TO GET ELECTRIC BIKES

INCLUDED AS PART OF THE

OFFERINGS.

I'M SURE YOU SAW THE SCOERS

COMING BACK ON THE STREETS AND

SCOOTERS, YOU KNOW, WE CALL THEM

BIKE LANES, BUT THESE LANES,

THEY'RE MULTI-USE LANES FOR

PEOPLE USING MOTORIZED DEVICES

LIKE WHEELCHAIRS AND ALSO FOR

SCOOTERS.

SO THE BIKES, I THINK THAT THEY

BECAME JUST TOO EXPENSIVE FOR

THE COMPANIES TO KEEP UP AND

THEY CAN MAKE MORE MONEY ON THE

SCOOTERS.

>> ARE THE BICYCLES WORKING

ANYWHERE?

I MEAN, THE RENTAL BIKES THAT

SEEMED LIKE WAS SUCH A GROWING

THING?

>> WELL, IN INDIANAPOLIS THEY'RE

WORKING GREAT AROUND THE

INDIANAPOLIS CULTURAL TRAIL.

THEY'RE STILL USING THEM IN

KANSAS CITY, BIKE WALK KC,

SIMILAR TO TRAILNET.

THEY ACTUALLY RUN IT WITH SOME

FEDERAL SUPPORT FOR FUNDING, FOR

DOING THAT.

YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THEM IN D.C.

AND CHICAGO.

IN D.C., YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A

CAR THAT'S GOING TO TAKE --

>> WHY CAN'T WE HAVE THAT HERE?

WHY CAN'T WE HAVE NICE THINGS?

>> I THINK BILL WANTS TO RENT A

BIKE.

>> YEAH, HAVING A SMOOTH

TRANSITION FROM USING TRANSIT TO

BEING ABLE TO USE SCOOTER OR A

BIKE, I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR

CMT, BUT I KNOW -- I MEAN FOR

METRO TRANSIT, I KNOW THEY'RE

NOT AGAINST IT AND THOSE ARE

CERTAINLY ADVANCES THAT WILL

MAKE THE SYSTEM EASIER FOR THAT

LAST MILE CONNECTION.

>> AND I THINK THE OTHER PIECE,

TOO, AS WE BUILD OUT THE BIKE

NETWORK AND WE GET MORE CYCLISTS

OUT THERE, THERE'S ALWAYS -- YOU

KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DO

BIKE A LOT IN ST. LOUIS WILL

TELL YOU THERE'S A LOT OF

OPPORTUNITIES FOR CONSISTS OF

CARS.

IT REALLY IS SOMETHING THAT

NEEDS TO BE MORE NORMALIZED FOR

LACK OF A BETTER TERM, FOR

PEOPLE RIDING BIKES AROUND.

YOU SAY YOU CAN'T HAVE NICE

THINGS AND THEN PEOPLE TAKE CARE

OF THEM AND THEY CONTINUE TO USE

THEM.

>> YOU MENTIONED JASON HALL

EARLIER, WHO OF COURSE, IS THE

CEO OF GREATER ST. LOUIS, INC.

I ASSUME WHEN HE WAS TAKING PART

IN THIS, THAT WAS PART OF ARTS

TO THE PARK, CORRECT?

>> YES, I HAD WORKED UNDER JASON

AS ARCH TO THE PARK AND WE

KICKED OFF THIS PROJECT AND

CARRIED IT FORWARD.

>> IS IT THE PRIVATE SECTOR THAT

ARCH TO THE PARK IS INVESTING IT

OR IS IT MORE OF A COMMUTER --

IN OTHER WORDS, I DON'T KNOW HOW

MUCH INVESTMENT IS INVOLVED IN

BUILDING THESE AND WHETHER THE

PRIVATE SECTOR IS INVOLVED OR

THE PUBLIC OR BOTH IN MAKING

DECISIONS WHERE TO INVEST IN

THESE TRAILS AND SO FORTH.

>> YEAH, GREAT QUESTION.

SO BECAUSE THIS PROJECT

INITIALLY LAUNCHED WITH --

EXCUSE ME, WITH APPLYING TO

FEDERAL GRANT MONEY, SO THIS IS

VERY MUCH A PRIVATE-PUBLIC

PARTNERSHIP, SO THIS PARTICULAR

STRETCH, THE TOWER GROVE

CONNECTOR, DOES HAVE A

$5.6 MILLION FEDERAL GRANT THAT

IS GOING TOWARDS CONSTRUCTION.

BUT WE HAD AS ARCH TO PARK AND

NOW GREATER ST. LOUIS, INC., HAS

ALSO COMMITTED FUNDING FOR THE

PRIVATE MATCH IN ADDITION TO THE

APPLICATION PROCESS, IN ADDITION

TO THE ENGINEERING AND DESIGN

PHASE OF THIS PROJECT.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE ARE ONE OF MANY

PARTNERS THAT ARE PARTICIPATING

IN THE PROJECT, BUT WE ARE ONE

OF THE LEAD FUNDERS TO MAKE IT

HAPPEN.

BECAUSE, AGAIN, WE RECOGNIZE HOW

IMPORTANT IT IS FOR OUR REGION

TO GROW, TO HAVE THESE KINDS OF

AMENITIES.

>> CAN I SAY, HOW MUCH IS THAT

INVESTMENT?

>> ALL IN, IT'S -- I'M GOING

TO -- I THINK IT'S ABOUT

2.6 MILLION.

>> FROM THE PRIVATE -- FROM ARCH

TO PARK OR GREATER ST. LOUIS?

>> CORRECT.

>> I GUESS IT -- OKAY.

>> I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT EARLY

ON WHEN ARCH TO THE PARK

EMBRACED THIS PROJECT, THEY PAID

FOR AN ENGINEERING STUDY TO JUST

MAKE US READY TO APPLY FOR THE

FUNDS THROUGH THE CITY.

SO THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS HAS

BEEN A GREAT PARTNER WORKING

THROUGH THIS AND WE'VE HAD

ALDERMEN WHO DEDICATED SOME OF

THEIR FUNDING TOWARD GETTING

THIS DONE, SO MANY PARTNERS HAVE

COME TOGETHER TO REALLY MAKE

THIS A SUCCESS.

>> YEAH, AND JUST TO REITERATE

AGAIN, THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS,

THAT'S HOW WE -- THEY'RE THE

MAIN PARTNER ON THIS BECAUSE WE

CAN'T APPLY FOR FUNDS FROM THE

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WITHOUT THE

PARTNERSHIP OF THE CITY, SO THEY

REALLY HAVE BEEN ADVOCATES IN

WANTING TO SEE THESE KINDS OF

PROJECTS MOVE FORWARD ALL

THROUGHOUT.

>> DO YOU THINK WE HAVE MORE

HOSTILITY FROM DRIVERS TOWARD

BICYCLES IN THIS CITY THAN IN

MOST CITIES?

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE

WHENEVER THERE'S A CONVERSATION

ABOUT BICYCLISTS, SOME GRUMPY

OLD GUY USUALLY WILL SAY, OH,

THOSE BICYCLISTS, THEY'RE ON

CLAYTON ROAD, TAKING UP AN

ENTIRE LANE.

AND IF YOU SAY, SIR, WITH EVER

TO SHARE THE ROAD, PEOPLE GET

UPSET AND COMPLAIN ABOUT

BICYCLISTS.

IS THAT COMMON EVERYWHERE OR IS

THAT MORE PREVALENT HERE?

>> CAN WE EMPHASIZE, WE ARE NOT

THE GRUMPY OLD GUYS.

YOU JUST PUT IT --

>> YOU'RE NOT EVEN THE OLD GUYS.

STILL A YOUNG GUY.

>> I THINK YOU'RE KIND OF

SORTING OUT THERE THINGS.

THE ACTIVITY YOU SEE A CLAYTON

ROAD, THAT'S OFTEN ON THE

WEEKENDS, RIGHT?

>> YES.

>> AND YOU MIGHT SEE LARGER

GROUPS OF FOLKS RECREATING

AND --

>> SOMETIMES YOU JUST SEE TWO

PEOPLE AND THEY'LL BE RIDING

ALONG IN THE RIGHT-HAND LANE,

BUT NOT SINGLE FILE.

SO PEOPLE DO HAVE TO GO AROUND

THEM.

I MEAN, I'M -- I'M NOT

IMPATIENT, BUT MANY PEOPLE ARE.

>> YES.

>> TWO PEOPLE SIDE BY SIDE

PROBABLY TAKE LESS ROOM THAN AN

SUV.

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY, BUT THEY GO

MUCH SLOWER THAN AN SUV.

>> I WOULD SAY, I'M A BIKE

COMMUTER, SO I LIVE IN YOUR

NEIGHBORHOOD, BILL, AND I BIKE

TO DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS AND I

WOULD SAY OVER THE LAST SEVEN

YEARS, IN BIKING TO WORK, MAYBE

TWO OR THREE TIMES I MIGHT HAVE

BEEN YELLED AT AND TOLD TO GET

ON THE SIDEWALK.

>> THAT'S NOT SO BAD.

>> BUT NOT BY BILL.

NOT BY BILL.

>> THAT'S NOT THAT BAD.

>> I DON'T THINK IT WAS BILL.

>> OKAY.

NO, IT WASN'T ME.

>> HE'S MORE LIKELY TO SAY GET

OFF MY LINE.

>> AT TRAILNET, WE ALSO WORK ON

POLICY, AND SO WE HELP TO

ESTABLISH AN ANTI-HARASSMENT

POLICY SO THAT CYCLISTS CANNOT

BE HARASSED.

SOMEBODY CAN BE PROSECUTED FOR

HARASSING A CYCLIST.

>> REALLY?

>> YOU KNOW, THROWING A PIECE OF

PIZZA AT THEM HAPPENED TO ONE OF

MY INTERNS, BUT WE DID ESTABLISH

THAT BECAUSE WE WANT PEOPLE TO

FEEL SAFE USING TRANSIT, WALKING

BIKING, USING OTHER FORMS OF

TRANSIT AND TRANSPORTATION AND

NOT BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST.

WOMEN FIND THAT A LOT, THAT THEY

CAN BE A TARGET WHILE THEY'RE

WALKING OR BIKING, AND SO WE

HELPED ESTABLISH THAT POLICY IN

ST. LOUIS.

>> WELL, CINDY, IF YOU'RE A

NEIGHBOR OF MINE, I TAKE IT YOU

BICYCLE A LOT IN FOREST PARK?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> RIGHT.

I MEAN, WHAT A GREAT PLACE THAT

IS.

>> AND PART OF THAT IS THAT IT'S

PROTECTED, TOO, RIGHT?

BOTH FOREST PARK HAS PROTECT TD

LANES AND THIS NEW ONE WITH

TOWER GROVE CONNECTOR IS

PROTECTED TO HELP REDUCE SOME OF

THE CONFLICT WITH CARS, BUT THE

OTHER PIECE THAT'S KIND OF

EXCITING ABOUT THESE NEW

INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS, NOT

ONLY SIT BETTER FOR BIKES AND

PEDS, IT'S BETTER FOR CARS TOO

BECAUSE WE'RE ALSO UPGRADING

SOME OF THE SIGNALS.

YOU'RE NO LONGER SITTING AT RED

LIGHTS EVERY TIME YOU HIT A

LIGHT, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO BE

COORDINATED TO HELP WITH THE

FLOW OF TRAFFIC AND REDUCE ANY

IDLING TO HELP IMPROVE THE AIR

QUALITY AS WELL.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHILE WE

FOCUS A LOT ON THE BIKE/PED, IT

ACTUALLY DOES HAVE IMPROVEMENTS

FOR CARS AS WELL.

>> OKAY.

>> AND IT'S WONDERFUL WORK.

HAVE YOU EVER QUAUN IF I TI FIDE

THE IMPACT -- QUANTIFIED THE

IMPACT YOU'RE HAVING?

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU MEASURE HOW

MANY PEOPLE ARE CYCLING, BUT

THERE IS A WAY TO DO THAT, TO

SAY WE HAVE THIS MANY MORE

CYCLISTS THAN WE DID?

>> THERE'S A VARIETY OF WAYS WE

MEASURE.

ONE OF THOSE IS APPLYING TO

BECOME A BIKE FRIENDLY STEP.

ST. LOUIS HAS A SILVER LEVEL,

THEY MOVED UP FROM BRONZE AND

WORKING TOWARD A GOLD LEVEL

RECOGNITION OR PLATINUM.

WE ALSO -- TRAILNET HOSTS, EACH

YEAR WE DO A BIKE COUNT A

BIKE/PED COUNT IN SEPTEMBER, SO

WE'LL SPEND TWO DAYS OUT THERE

COUNTING PEOPLE WALKING AND

BIKING AT VARIOUS LOCATIONS.

WE SECURE A BURCH OF VOLUNTEERS

AND -- A BUNCH OF VOLUNTEERS AND

YOU'LL SEE US OUT THERE WITH OUR

CLIPBOARDS LOOKING NOSY AND

COUNTING PEOPLE WALKING AND

BIKING SO WE CAN GET A BETTER

INDICATION WITH OUR OWN DATA OF

HOW TRAVELED THESE AREAS ARE.

AND WE CAN ALSO COMPARE IT TO

CRAFT DATA.

WE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF CRASH DATA

ON WHERE WE'RE SEEING MORE

CRASHES THAT ARE FATAL FOR

PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS, TO

HELP THE CITY PRIORITIZE WHERE

THEY PUT IN IMPROVEMENTS.

>> OKAY.

SARAH, A MINUTE AGO YOU

MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT

TRAFFIC LIGHTS, THAT THEY'RE

BEING TIMED BETTER OR SOMETHING.

WHERE DO YOU STAND ON BICYCLISTS

WHO COME UP TO A RED LIGHT AND

LOOK AND MAKE SURE NOBODY'S

COMING, BUT THEN CROSS.

I MEAN, I LOOK AT IT AND I THINK

THAT'S PROBABLY A SAFE THING TO

DO, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY

THOSE DARN CYCLISTS, THEY DON'T

PAY ATTENTION TO THE RULES OF

THE ROAD.

WHERE ARE YOU ON THAT?

>> IT'S FUNNY WE HAD A PUBLIC

OPEN HOUSE ON THE TOWER GROVE

CONNECTOR YESTERDAY AND I HAD A

GENTLEMAN COME IN, HE WAS AN

AVID CYCLIST AND HE WAS VERY

ADAMANT THAT IT WAS VERY

IMPORTANT FOR CYCLISTS TO FOLLOW

ALL TRAFFIC RULES BECAUSE AS

SOON AS PEOPLE START BREAKING

THEM, THAT'S WHEN ACCIDENTS

HAPPEN AND PEOPLE GET UPSET.

IT REALLY IS BEST PRACTICE TO

FOLLOW TRAFFIC RULES EVEN THOUGH

IT DOES LOOK CAREER.

DO I FOLLOW THAT EVERY TIME,

I'M -- YOU KNOW.

>> ACTUALLY, THERE IS A STATUTE

FOR A BICYCLIST THAT YOU CAN

STOP FOR A DEAD -- IF A RED

LIGHT ISN'T REGISTERING YOU AS A

CYCLIST, SO KIND OF A FUZZY

AREA, BUT LET'S SAY IT'S ONE OF

THOSE LIGHTS THAT ONLY DETECTS

CARS AND THE LIGHT DOESN'T TURN,

LIKE AT JEFFERSON AND LOCUST, IT

WON'T REGISTER YOU AS A CYCLIST,

SO YOU WON'T GET THE LIGHT.

AND SO THERE IS A LAW THAT

CYCLIST GO THROUGH A DEAD RED BY

COMING TO A STOP.

IF THE RED LIGHT DOESN'T

RECOGNIZE THEM, THEY CAN GO

THROUGH IT.

SO YEAH.

>> NOW WE KNOW.

>> YEAH.

IT IS LEGAL IF IT'S NOT

REGISTERING YOU.

>> WELL, I CAN SEE WHERE IT'S

EVEN A SAFE THING TO DO

SOMETIMES.

I SEE A BICYCLIST COME UP AND HE

OR SHE KNOWS THAT IN A FEW

MINUTES SOMEBODY MIGHT BE COMING

DOWN, BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S CLEAR,

BUT THE DRIVER SITTING THERE

NEXT TO HIM OR HER --

>> WELL, IF A DRIVER WAS THERE

WITH THE CYCLIST, THAT DOESN'T

QUALIFY.

I'M SAYING IF THE CYCLIST --

>> I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE

SAYING.

>> WE'RE OUT OF TIME, RUNNING

OUT OF TIME.

REALLY QUICKLY, WHERE CAN PEOPLE

FIND THESE RULES OF THE ROAD?

CAN YOU TELL US IN TEN SECONDS?

>> YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY FIND THEM

ON TRAILNET'S WEBSITE AT

TRAILNET.ORG.

>> ALL THE RULES OF CYCLING?

WE WANT TO THANK YOU, SARAH

ARNOSKY OF GREATER ST. LOUIS,

INC., AND CINDY MENSE OF

TRAILNET FOR DOING SUCH A GREAT

JOB OF TOLERATING OUR QUESTIONS.

YOU'RE WELCOME BACK ANYTIME ON

NEXT UP.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR

INSIGHTS.

WE APPRECIATE IT AND TO OUR

DONNYBROOK AUDIENCE, WE WILL SEE

YOU AGAIN NEXT THURSDAY NIGHT.

>> WE HOPE TO SEE YOU ON THE

MOONLIGHT RAMBLE AUGUST 21st.

WE'LL BE IN TOWER GROVE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> BYE.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE

POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE

BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON

FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF

NINE PBS.