>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE
POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE
BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON
FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF
NINE PBS.
>> HEY, THANKS FOR JOINING US
FOR THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.
GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US AND A
LOT OF HOT TOPICS IN THIS MID
JULY EDITION.
BUT AFTER THAT, WE'RE GOING TO
TALK TO TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO
THINK THAT MAKING A WALKABLE,
BIKEABLE ST. LOUIS WILL REALLY
YIELD ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
WE'LL TALK TO CINDY MENSE OF
TRAILNET AND SARAH ARNOSKY, VICE
PRESIDENT AT GREATER ST. LOUIS
INC.
BUT FIRST LET'S DISCUSS THE
ISSUES WITH OUR PANEL.
LET'S MEET THEM.
WENDY WIESE IS THE NEWS DIRECTOR
FOR THE BIG 550 KTRS.
ALSO THE COHOST OF THE JENNIFER
AND WENDY SHOW.
MR. BILL McCLELLAN IS WITH US, A
FOUNDER OF THE PROGRAM.
HE'S WITH THE ST. LOUIS
POST-DISPATCH.
RAY HARTMANN WITH RAWSTORY.COM,
THE BIG 550, KTRS, AND THE
RIVERFRONT TIMES, ANOTHER
FOUNDER.
AND HE'S THE NEWS EDITOR AND
SPORTS COLUMNIST WITH THE
ST. LOUIS AMERICAN, ALVIN REID.
OKAY, LET ME ASK YOU, RAY
HARTMANN, IT WAS KIND OF
HISTORIC, I GUESS.
PEOPLE SAID THE TEN OR WAS IT
12-HOUR MEETING THIS WEEK OF THE
ST. LOUIS BOARD OF ALDERMEN,
SHATTERED ALL RECORDS FOR THIS
LEGISLATIVE BODY THAT NEVER NET
AT QUITE SUCH A LENGTH.
I GUESS HISTORIANS WILL HAVE TO
LOOK INTO THAT AND SEE IF THAT'S
TRUE, BUT NONETHELESS, THIS YEAR
ST. LOUIS IS GETTING 498 MILLION
FEDERAL DOLLARS FROM THE
AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN AND A LOT
OF THAT HAS BEEN ALLOCATED
THANKS TO ACTION BY THE BOARD.
DIRECT PAYMENTS OF $500 WILL GO
TO 10,000 NEEDY ST. LOUISANS.
GIFT CARDS GO TO ST. LOUISANS SO
THEY'LL BE VACCINATED.
THE POLICE WILL GET $5 MILLION
IN OVERTIME AND ALL THIS GOES TO
THE BOARD OF ESTIMATE AND
APPORTIONMENT WHICH MEETS FRI,
TOMORROW.
THERE'S ANOTHER STEP BEFORE THIS
BECOMES REALITY, BUT OVERALL,
WHAT DID YOU SYMPATTHINK?
>> I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE
CYNICAL ABOUT THE CITY OF
ST. LOUIS AND I WISH WASHINGTON
WOULD WORK AS WELL AS THE CITY
OF ST. LOUIS DID.
YOU HAD DIFFERENCES OF OPINION
BETWEEN MAYOR TISHAURA JONES AND
LEWIS REED, THE ALDERMANIC
PRESIDENT AND THEY SAT DOWN AND
APPARENTLY HASHED IT OUT.
I THINK IT'S EASY TO SIT HERE,
BUT I THINK THEY COMPROMISED AND
WHAT'S WE WANT PUBLIC OFFICIALS
TO DO IS TALK THINGS OUT AND
COMPROMISE, AND I HAPPEN TO
THINK THAT THE -- THAT WHILE
IT'S UNCONVENTIONAL, THE DIRECT
PAYMENTS WILL BE STIMULUSES TO
THE ST. LOUIS ECONOMY AND MORE
IMPORTANT, HELP THE PEOPLE
THAT -- THE 10,000 PEOPLE THAT
WILL BE RECEIVING THEM AND
THEY'LL BE VERY HELPFUL, VERY
CRITICAL TO THOSE FOLKS.
I THINK IT'S A GOOD STEP.
I THINK THEY'RE WORKING IN THE
RIGHT DIRECTION.
>> WHILE I AGREE WITH HIM, I'M
GOING TO GO WAY BACK WHEN THIS
FIRST CAME UP AND BILL McCLELLAN
SAID WHY NOT JUST TAKE THE
$5 MILLION OUT OF THE STIMULUS
PACKAGE?
SO IT'S KIND OF -- MAYBE IT
DIDN'T NEED TO TAKE SIX HOURS
AND MAYBE SOME OF THE SOLUTIONS
WERE RIGHT THERE, SO MAYBE THIS
WAS A LITTLE TOO MUCH POLITICAL
DOG FIGHT, BUT IT'S CALLED
COMPROMISE AND LIKE RAY SAID,
THAT'S, I THINK, ALL THAT MOST
OF AMERICA WANTS RIGHT NOW.
AND IF BOTH TEAMS CAN SAY, LIKE,
HEY, I GOT A WIN OUT OF THIS,
THAT'S NOT A BAD THING.
THAT'S NOT A BAD THING AT ALL.
SO HEY, IF YOU'RE GOING TO GET
THE JOB DONE, GET THE JOB DONE.
>> WELL -- I'M SORRY, BILL.
GO AHEAD.
>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, I'M HAPPY
WITH IT, TOO, BUT IT'S GOING TO
BE INTERESTING TO FIGURE OUT
WHAT 10,000 PEOPLE GET $500
BECAUSE THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF
PEOPLE WHO COULD USE $500.
DO YOU GIVE IT TO THE POOREST
PEOPLE OR DOES IT HAVE TO BE
SOMEBODY WHO WAS IMPACTED
DIRECTLY BY COVID, SOMEONE WHO
LOST THEIR JOB?
I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF
THAT, BUT IT WILL BE
INTERESTING.
>> REALLY BROADCASTERS SHOULD BE
FIRST IN LINE.
>> WE'VE HAD STIMULUS CHECKS
FROM PRESIDENT BUSH, PRESIDENT
TRUMP, PRESIDENT BIDEN BECAUSE
OF COVID.
JEFFREY BOYD AND LEWIS REED WERE
CERTAINLY NOT IN FAVOR OF IT
JUST ON ITS MERITS BECAUSE
THEY'RE SAYING THAT IT'S -- YOU
CAN'T PROVE THAT IT'S GOING TO
MAKE THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE
AND THAT IT WAS JUST GOOD MONEY
AFTER BAD OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS
MAYOR JONES SAID THAT THIS WILL
ADDRESS THE CRIME ISSUE AT -- OR
THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE CRIME
ISSUE IN THE CITY AND IT WILL
KEEP PEOPLE IN THEIR HOMES.
AND I THINK THAT'S AN AWFUL LOT
TO EXPECT OF A $500 CHECK.
I DON'T -- I HONESTLY DON'T SEE
HOW $500 ADDRESSES THE ROOT
CAUSES OF CRIME IN OUR CITY.
>> WELL, NO, THAT'S POLITICAL
TALK.
IT WILL ADDRESS IT.
NOW, IT MAY BE ONE GAZILLIONth
OF, YOU KNOW, IMPACT, BUT IT
COULD -- IT COULD -- PROBABLY
WILL MAKE SOME IMPACT.
SO I MEAN, I'M NOT SAYING IT'S
GOING TO SOLVE CRIME.
>> I THINK IT MAKES THE
POLITICIANS POPULAR WHEN THEY
HAND OUT MONEY, THERE'S NO
DOUBT, AND THAT'S WHY THERE WAS
AN INTERESTING CAVEAT TO THIS
MEASURE AND THAT WAS THAT NO
NAME, IMAGE, OR LIKENESS OF ANY
POLITICIAN COULD BE ATTACHED TO
THOSE $500 CHECKS OR TO THE GIFT
CARDS.
NOW, I DON'T -- DON'T GET ME
WRONG.
A LOT OF PEOPLE COULD USE THAT
MONEY, BUT THERE'S ALSO A TON OF
LITTER OUT THERE AND IN THE
1930s, WE HAD THE WORKS PROGRESS
ADMINISTRATION.
I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN
SOME SORT OF GROUP OF PEOPLE
GETTING PAID $500 TO CLEAN UP
SOME OF OUR HIGHWAYS AND BYWAYS
IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS.
>> LET ME POINT OUT, THEY DO
HAVE -- AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT
IS, BUT THEY HAVE A FAIRLY
SPECIFIC PLAN AND LIKE BILL
SAYS, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO
SEE HOW IT IS IN PRACTICE, BUT
IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE JUST
SAYING -- I THINK IT'S FAMILIES
AND THEY HAVE A BUNCH OF
CRITERIA.
SO MY POINT IS, THEY GOT A PLAN.
WE'LL HAVE TO SEE IF IT WORKS.
I THINK IT DOES MATTER AND I
THINK THAT POVERTY IS ONE OF THE
INDICATORS OF CRIME.
>> OKAY, BUT --
>> TO THE EXTENT SOME PEOPLE ARE
ABLE -- 500 MAY NOT SEEM LIKE A
LOT TO EVERYBODY, BUT IT MIGHT
BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
KEEPING THE LIGHTS ON.
>> READING IN THE PAPER TODAY,
BILL McCLELLAN, THAT THERE ARE
800 JOBS IN THE CITY OF
ST. LOUIS THAT ARE NOT FILLED,
AND THIS IS A STORY TAKING A
LOOK AT HOW, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T
FIND PEOPLE TO WORK AS TRASH
HAULERS, THE CITY IS NO LONGER
SEPARATING THE RECYCLE MATERIAL
FROM THE TRASH.
IT'S ALL BEING COLLECTED
TOGETHER, AT LEAST TEMPORARILY.
WHO KNOWS HOW LONG THIS IS GOING
TO LAST, BUT ONE OF THE REASONS
IS THEY CAN'T FIND TRASH
HAULERS.
THERE'S ABOUT 30 OPENINGS THERE,
BUT OVERALL IN THE CITY, 800 JOB
OPENINGS AND IT IS KIND OF
UNUSUAL, ISN'T IT, TO BE HANDING
OUT CHECKS TO PEOPLE WHO CAN'T
FIND WORK WHILE THE CITY ITSELF
HAS 800 JOBS AVAILABLE.
>> OH, THERE'S A VERY
INTERESTING STORY BECAUSE I
WOULD THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE
POLICE DEPARTMENT MIGHT HAVE
TROUBLE FINDING ELIGIBLE CITY
DWELLERS BECAUSE THEY MIGHT HAVE
RECORDS OR SOMETHING, BUT YOU
WOULDN'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM WITH
TRASH HAULERS AND I THINK
THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO
WOULD REALLY LIKE A STEADY JOB
WITH BENEFITS AND IT'S
INCREDIBLE TO ME THAT WE
HAVEN'T -- THAT THE CITY HAS NOT
BEEN ABLE TO FILL THOSE JOBS.
AND HEATHER NAVARRO, THE 28th
WARD ALDERMAN, SAID SHE WENT
ONLINE TO SEE HOW EASY IT IS TO
APPLY FOR A JOB AND SHE COULDN'T
DO IT.
AND THEY QUOTED SOMEBODY SAYING
WELL, THE SYSTEM IS FROM 1968.
AND I REMEMBER 1968, AND I GOT
TIES FROM 1968, BUT YOU DON'T
WANT TO HAVE A COMPUTER SYSTEM
FROM 1968.
SO I THINK THE CITY OUGHT TO
REALLY MAKE AN EFFORT TO HIRE
PEOPLE AND GIVE THEM HONEST
WORK, AND I'M SURE THAT THERE'S
PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD WANT
THE TRASH HAULING JOBS AND SOME
OF THE OTHER 800 JOBS.
IT'S --
>> I'M NOT SURE THAT IT'S A
MATTER OF THE CITY NOT TRYING.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TALK
ABOUT TRASH HAULERS AND WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT POLICE OFFICERS
AND HOW FAR DOWN WE ARE ON THAT
SCORE AND THE I.T. NEEDS OF THE
CITY, THERE ARE -- AS CHARLIE
SAID, AS YOU'VE ALL AGREED,
THERE ARE ALMOST 1,000 POSITIONS
OPEN IN THE CITY.
AND THEY -- PEOPLE OBVIOUSLY
DON'T WANT THAT KIND OF WORK.
>> WELL, I CAN SEE I.T. -- I CAN
SEE A SHORTAGE OF I.T. WORKERS
BECAUSE MAYBE AN I.T. WORKER
COULD MAKE MORE IN PRIVATE
INDUSTRY.
AND LIKE I SAID, I CAN SEE THE
PROBLEM WITH THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT.
BUT I DON'T SEE THE PROBLEM
HIRING TRASH HAULERS.
>> THEY DON'T WANT TO --
>> THAT'S A GOOD JOB, WENDY.
>> LINDA THOMAS FROM THE
PERSONNEL DEPARTMENT, IN THE
POST-DISPATCH A COUPLE WEEKS
AGO, SAID BECAUSE OF FEDERAL
BENEFITS, THEY'RE COMING FROM
WASHINGTON, D.C., PEOPLE ARE NOT
AS MOTIVATED TO APPLY FOR SOME
OF THESE JOBS.
I BELIEVE SHE MADE HER COMMENTS
IN A POST-DISPATCH STORY WHEN IT
WAS DESCRIBED HOW THEY COULDN'T
FIND 911 DISPATCHERS.
>> BUT THEY'VE HAD THIS PROBLEM
LONG BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, LONG
BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT WAS GIVING
$300 A WEEK EXTRA ON
UNEMPLOYMENT.
THE 911 STUFF, THAT WENT SOUTH
AS SOON AS THE CITY GOT CONTROL
OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
YOU KNOW, THEY SUDDENLY STRIPPED
A LOT OF 911 WORKERS AND I'M
SURE WE'VE BEEN SHORT GARBAGE
HAULERS FOR A LONG TIME AS WELL.
>> I THINK WHAT THEY -- IF YOU
WAIVED THE DRUG TEST FOR A LOT
OF JOBS, A LOT MORE PEOPLE WOULD
APPLY.
THAT'S JUST THE REALITY.
>> THAT'S TRUE.
>> AND THEN, TOO, I WANTED TO BE
A JOURNALIST SINCE I WAS 12, BUT
THE FIRST JOB -- AND MY MOM --
HI, MOM -- AS MY WITNESS,
5-YEAR-OLD ALVIN THOUGHT THE
COOLEST THING IN THE WORLD WOULD
BE TO BE A GARBAGE MAN, AND I
KNOW THEY'RE SANITATION WORKERS
NOW, THAT'S HOW WE KNOW THEM,
BECAUSE THEY GOT TO RIDE ON THE
BACK OF THE TRUCK.
NOW, TIMES HAVE CHANGED.
NOW I'M KIND OF LIKE THIS.
GOOD-PAYING JOB WITH BENEFITS?
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE
ARE HESITANT TO, YOU KNOW, LIKE
FULFILL SOME OF THESE JOBS.
I MEAN, I DON'T GET IT.
>> BUT ME --
>> THE COMPUTER SYSTEM GOES BACK
TO --
>> WE'VE ALL SEEN THE ONLINE
REPORT OF PEOPLE SAYING THAT
THEY'RE GIVING UP THEIR --
THEY'RE GIVING UP THEIR WHITE
COLLAR JOBS, THEY'RE GIVING UP
THEIR CORPORATE JOBS BECAUSE
THEY DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH THE
ADVERSITY IN THE WORKPLACE, AND
I MEAN, THOSE ARE ACTUAL TERMS
THAT ARE BEING THROWN AROUND.
ADVERSITY IN THE WORKPLACE.
I MEAN, THAT'S -- TO ME, THAT'S
PART OF GOING TO WORK.
THERE'S GOING TO BE ADVERSITY,
YOU KNOW.
YOU'RE PAID TO DO A JOB, SO IT
SONET DEEM TO BE AN AND --
DOESN'T SEEM TO BE AN APPETITE
FOR IT.
>> HEY, WHILE WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT THE CITY AND WE'LL MOVE ON
TO OTHER REGIONAL ISSUES IN JUST
A MOMENT, ALVIN REID, THIS PAST
WEEK MAYOR TISHAURA JONES AND
CONGRESSMAN CORI BUSH VISITED
DENVER TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE
STAR PROGRAM THERE.
STAR STANDS FOR SUPPORT TEAM
ASSISTANCE RESPONSE, A PROGRAM
THAT SENDS SOCIAL WORKERS TO
SOME, I GUESS -- TO SOME SITES
THAT ORDINARILY WOULD HAVE BEEN
VISITED BY POLICE.
IN THIS CASE, IT'S TRESPASSING
OR WELFARE ISSUES OR IT COULD BE
A SYRINGE FOUND ON THE STREET,
THINGS LIKE THAT.
NOT THE MOST SERIOUS CRIMES.
MAYOR LYDA KREWSON HAD TWO PILOT
PROGRAMS ALONG THESE LINES.
LET ME ASK YOU.
DO YOU THINK THIS TRIP WILL BEAR
FRUIT?
>> I THINK IT COULD.
I THINK YOU GO TO -- GO FOR
WHAT'S THE SUCCESSFUL FORECAST
AND YOU GO AND FIND OUT WHAT
THEY'RE DOING.
THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
THE MAYOR AND CORI BUSH AND A
LOT OF POLITICIANS THAT ARE
REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATIC
ACTUALLY KIND OF ADHERE TO,
MAYBE WE DON'T NEED TO SEND THE
POLICE TO EVERY SITUATION.
AND TO FIND OUT THE BEST WAY TO
DO IT ON A TRIP TO DENVER, I
MEAN, EVEN IF THEY -- YOU KNOW,
OVERNIGHT, I REALLY DON'T THINK
THAT'S SETTING THE WHOLE BUDGET
BACK THAT MUCH.
NOW, DON'T HOLD ME TO THIS, BUT
I BELIEVE THERE MAY HAVE BEEN
SOME TRIPS INVOLVED TO CHINA AND
PLACES LIKE THAT DURING PREVIOUS
ADMINISTRATIONS, YOU KNOW, WHEN
WE'RE GOING TO BE THE TRADE
PARTNER WITH CHINA AND --
>> CHINA HUB.
>> YEAH, EXACTLY, AND WHERE DID
THAT GO AND WHERE DID A LOT OF
PROJECT WHERE I'M SURE A LOT OF
VISITING WENT ON THAT WERE MUCH,
MUCH MORE COSTLY THAN AN
OVERNIGHT TRIP TO DENVER.
>> I DON'T EVEN THINK IT'S -- GO
AHEAD, RAY, I'M SORRY.
>> NO, YOU'RE GOOD.
>> I DON'T THINK IT'S A MATTER
OF MONEY.
I JUST THINK IT'S -- I THINK
IT'S THE APPLES/ORANGES
COMPARISON.
ST. LOUIS IS IN THE MIDDLE OF A
CRISIS IN TERMS OF CRIME AND
HOMICIDE NUMBERS, AND DENVER IS
NOT ON ANY OF THE FBI'S MOST
DANGEROUS CITIES LISTS.
SO I COULD CARE LESS WHAT IT
COSTS TO GO OUT THERE.
I JUST -- I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S
AN APPLICABLE -- THE STAR
PROGRAM IS APPLICABLE TO WHAT
WE'RE DEALING WITH HERE IN
ST. LOUIS.
>> I'M SURE THEY GOT PLENTY OF
CRIME IN DENVER AND THEY'VE
GOT -- IF IT'S A BEST PRACTICES
THING, YOU CAN ARGUE SOME OF
IT'S SYMBOLIC AND POLITICAL
FIGURES GO TO THESE THINGS, BUT
I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD ALWAYS
RULE OUT TRADE STUFF BECAUSE
SOMETIMES THAT ACTUALLY, AS
FARFETCHED AS IT MAY SEEM,
SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR
CHIEF EXECUTIVES, WHETHER IT'S
THE GOVERNOR OR MAYOR, WHATEVER,
SHOW UP AND TALK TO TRADE
DELEGATIONS.
I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT THEY DO.
JUST BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE AN
EXOTIC TRIP DOESN'T NECESSARILY
MEAN YOU SHOULDN'T DO IT.
I MEAN, BECAUSE IF OTHER CITIES
HAVE PEOPLE GOING, THEIR MAYORS
GOING, THEY CAN MAKE A
DIFFERENCE.
YOU HAVE TO PICK -- THAT'S PART
OF -- IF GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO
BE IN THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
BUSINESS, YOU CAN'T SAY, OH NO,
WE CAN'T GO OVERSEAS BECAUSE OF
THE COST OF THE TRIP.
A LOT OF THOSE, THOSE ARE --
SOMETIMES THOSE TRIPS CAN BE
SUBSIDIZED BY PRIVATE SECTOR
FOLKS.
AND I HAVE NO -- THIS IS HARDLY
A MAJOR TRIP.
I THINK SYMBOLICALLY, IT MAKES
SENSE.
>> I NEED TO GO TO SAN FRANCISCO
AND VISIT THEIR PBS STATION, SO
CHARLIE, LET'S WORK THAT OUT,
OKAY?
>> WE'LL HAVE A GOOD TIME AT THE
DENVER PBS STATION, IF YOU
FOLLOW MY DRIFT.
>> I WOULD TAKE IT.
>> I THINK IT'S GREAT THAT
THEY'RE LEARNING BEST PRACTICES
AND I DON'T THINK THE COST
MATTERS AT ALL, BUT WENDY, YOU
HAVE A POINT.
LAST YEAR DENVER HAD ABOUT 90
HOSM SIDES.
THEIR POPULATION IS ABOUT
70,000.
IN A TYPICAL YEAR, DENVER HAS
ABOUT 60 HOMICIDE AND YEAR, SO
IT IS KIND OF APPLES AND ORANGES
BECAUSE WE HAD 260 HOMICIDES.
WE WERE DEALING WITH REAL
VIOLENT CRIME THAT DENVER
DOESN'T SEE AND THE STAR PROGRAM
HAD ABOUT 1300 RESPONSES LAST
YEAR WHICH, WOW, THAT'S A
FRACTION OF THE CALLS THAT
POLICE AT THE ST. LOUIS
METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT
HAVE TO RESPOND TO.
>> IF YOU WANT -- IF YOU'RE
GOING FOR BEST PRACTICES, WOULD
YOU WANT SOMEBODY THAT'S HAVING
BETTER OUTCOMES?
I DON'T THINK THAT -- THE IDEA
THAT DENVER IS SOME PLACE WHERE,
YOU KNOW -- I MEAN, I'VE BEEN
THERE.
DENVER IS GREAT.
THERE'S ALL KINDS OF PRACTICES
THAT GO INTO PRIMARY, BUT THE
FACT THAT THEY HAVE A LOW ONE IS
NOT AN ARGUMENT NOT TO GO.
>> THEY HAVE 700,000 PEOPLE, WE
HAVE 300,000 IN OUR CITY.
>> IT'S NOT APPLES AND ORANGES.
>> CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.
ISN'T THERE A GUY BY THE NAME OF
WILL PINCKNEY WITH THE MAYOR'S
OFFICE?
HE LAUNCHED THIS PROGRAM A
COUPLE OF TIMES IN ST. LOUIS AND
HE'S A FORMER NEW YORK COP WHO I
THINK WAS PROFILED IN ONE LOCAL
PAPER RECENTLY IF I'M NOT
MISTAKEN.
HEY, LET'S TALK TO YOU, WENDY
WIESE, ABOUT WHAT I THINK IS A
TRULY UNPRECEDENTED STORY.
THIS IS A BATTLE BETWEEN THE
NATURAL RESOURCE DEFENSE COUNCIL
AND FIRE.
FIRE HAS A SUBSIDIARY THAT RUNS
A PIPELINE BETWEEN HERE AND IT
GOES THROUGH ILLINOIS, UP NORTH
TO GET SOME OF THAT FRACKING
NATURAL GAS, AND THAT FIRE
PIPELINE WAS REVIEWED BY THE
FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY
COMMISSION AND APPROVED.
HOWEVER, JUST RECENTLY, THE
WASHINGTON, D.C., COURT OF
APPEALS DECIDED TO REVOKE THE
CERTIFICATION FOR THAT PIPELINE,
SAYING THAT FERC, THE REGULATORY
BODY, DID NOT FOLLOW ITS OWN
RULES.
AND AS A RESULT, THERE'S A STORY
IN SUNDAY'S POST-DISPATCH THAT
THIS PIPELINE BRINGING NATURAL
GAS TO ST. LOUIS MIGHT BE
MOTHBALLED AND THEY'RE EVEN
TALKING ABOUT FILLING IT WITH
SAND BECAUSE IMPLODING IT WOULD
BE ANOTHER ENVIRONMENTAL
DISASTER.
HOW DO YOU FEEL?
DO YOU THINK THAT SINCE THE
REGULATORY BODY VIOLATED ITS OWN
RULES, ALLEGEDLY, THAT THE
PIPELINE SHOULD BE TAKEN DOWN?
>> WELL, I MEAN, SHAME ON THE
REGULATORY BODY THEN.
BUT YOU DON'T PENALIZE THE
NATURAL GAS CUSTOMERS HERE IN
THE MIDWEST.
THE WHOLE POINT WAS TO AVOID A
SITUATION OR THEY HAD AVOIDED A
SITUATION SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SAW
IN TEXAS IN FEBRUARY DURING A
DEEP FREEZE IN WHICH PEOPLE LOST
THEIR LIVES, PEOPLE WERE FOR A
VARIETY OF DIFFERENT REASONS AND
THINGS THAT THEY HAD SIGNED UP
FOR IN TERMS OF BUDGET BILLING,
THEY WERE RECEIVING 12 AND
$15,000 UTILITY BILLS.
AND I'M SORRY THAT SOME OF THE
MARKET ANALYSIS THAT SHOULD HAVE
BEEN PERFORMED WASN'T PERFORMED,
BUT THAT'S NOT, IN MY WAY OF
LOOKING AT THINGS, THAT'S NOT ON
FIRE.
THAT'S ON FERC.
>> WELL, THAT'S -- I MEAN, THIS
ISN'T SOME, LIKE, LIBERAL THINK
TANK THAT MADE THIS DECISION.
THE COURT OF APPEALS, OKAY?
THESE ARE JUDGES LOOKING AT THE
LAW AS TO HOW -- AND OBVIOUSLY
THEY WERE REVIEWING IT IF
THEY'RE APPELLATE JUDGES.
I DON'T KNOW WHICH SIDE
APPEALED, BUT THEY LOOKED AT THE
LAW AS IT WAS APPLIED BY LOWER
COURT JUDGES AND MADE A
DECISION.
YOU CAN SAY SHAME ON THEM.
IF THEY DIDN'T DO IT RIGHT, THEN
THE JUDGES ARE SAYING YOU GOT TO
DO IT RIGHT.
IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S SOME
WRONGDOING BY THE APPELLATE
COURT.
>> I THINK THIS IS INTENDED TO
HAVE A CHILLING IMPACT ON
ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO INVEST IN
PIPELINES, PERIOD.
PERIOD.
>> YOU CAN'T REFUTE THE LAW,
WENDY.
THESE ARE JUDGES.
THE APPELLATE COURT HAS GOT TO
BE REVIEWING BY DEFINITION A
LOWER COURT THAT FOUND THAT THE
REGULATORS -- AND IT'S NOT
EXACTLY A NEWS FLASH THAT IN THE
TRUMP ERA, THE REGULATORS WERE
LOOKING THE OTHER WAY.
THEY'RE SAYING YOU CAN'T DO
THAT, AND SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND
WHAT THE ARGUMENT IS WITH -- IS
THE ARGUMENT THAT THE JUDGES
SHOULD LOOK THE OTHER WAY TOO?
THEY JUST ENFORCE THE LAW.
>> DONE!
IT'S DONE.
THE PIPELINE -- I MEAN, IT'S
COMPLETED.
IT'S DELIVERING NATURAL GAS.
>> WELL, THEY FOLLOWED THE LAW
AND IF THE REGULATORS DIDN'T,
THEN IT'S THE RIGHT DECISION AND
WE -- WE CAN'T HAVE EVERY
DECISION COME DOWN TO, WELL, YOU
KNOW, IT'S BETTER FOR OUR
ECONOMY.
THERE IS THE ENVIRONMENTAL
CONCERNS AND THEY'RE THERE FOR A
REASON AND IF THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW
THE RULES, THEN THIS IS THE
RIGHT DECISION.
>> POLITICS DOESN'T PLAY INTO
THIS AT ALL, RIGHT, RAY?
THIS IS PURELY LEGAL.
>> WITH THE COURT OF APPEALS?
I DON'T THINK SO.
MAYBE IT DID.
>> OKAY, OKAY.
>> I DON'T KNOW.
AGAIN, THE COURT OF APPEALS,
WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, NOT REALLY
KNOWN AS BEING ALL THAT
LIBERAL --
>> LET ME JUST JUMP IN.
>> REVIEWING A LOWER COURT'S
DECISION ABOUT WHETHER THE LAW
WAS FOLLOWED.
IF IT WASN'T, THEN YOU GOT TO
EITHER FOLLOW THE LAW OR DUMP
SAND IN IT, I GUESS.
>> WELL, TRULY UNPRECEDENTED.
I'VE NEVER HEARD OF A GAS
PIPELINE BEING MOTH BALLED.
WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS, RAY.
WHILE WE HAVE YOU FRONT AND
CENTER, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE
SENTENCE THIS WEEK OF RANDY
HAYES, THE ST. LOUIS POLICE
OFFICER WHO PUBLIC HEALTH
PLEADED GUILTY IN THE BEATING OF
HIS COLLEAGUE, MR. LUTHER HALL,
AND HE RECEIVED FOUR YEARS.
A JUST SENTENCE?
>> WELL, IT GOES BY -- IT'S A
FEDERAL CASE, SO IT GOES BY THE
POINT SYSTEM.
THERE'S POINTS ADDED FOR
COOPERATION, POINTS TAKEN AWAY
FOR THIS AND POINTS ADDED FOR
THAT.
THEY START WITH A RANGE AND, YOU
KNOW, THERE'S NOT THAT MUCH
SUBJECTIVITY.
THERE'S SOME, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE
JUDGE -- I HAVE TO SAY, I WAS
SURPRISED BY IT.
I THOUGHT IT WAS MORE THAN I
THOUGHT HE WOULD GET.
I WOULD BE CONCERNED IF I WAS
DUSTIN BOONE WHO BASICALLY WAS
TRIED FOR THE SAME -- IF THE
PAPER HAD IT RIGHT, PRETTY MUCH
TRIED ON THE SAME CHARGES THAT
MR. HAYES WAS JUST SENTENCED,
AND HE COOPERATED.
I WOULDN'T BE SLEEPING TOO WELL
IF I WAS, YOU KNOW, HAD THIS
GONE TO A JURY TRIAL AND BEEN
FOUND GUILTY OF THOSE.
BUT ONCE AGAIN, YOU DON'T KNOW
WHERE BOONE VERSUS HAYES ARE ON
THE SENTENCING GUIDELINES.
IT'S A LOT OF -- A LOT OF IT IS
NOT SUBJECTIVE.
SOME OF IT IS, BUT THEY'VE GOT A
RANGE AND HE STAYED WITHIN THE
RANGE.
THE PROSECUTORS WANTED SIX.
AGAIN, I WAS SURPRISED BY IT,
BUT --
>> HOW ABOUT YOU, BILL
McCLELLAN?
>> I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, THE
SUBJECTIVE PART, I DON'T -- THE
WHOLE POINT OF GETTING PEOPLE TO
TESTIFY IS YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE
THEM A BREAK ON THE SENTENCING,
ESPECIALLY IN A CASE LIKE THIS
WHERE IT'S A COP TESTIFYING
AGAINST OTHER COPS, AND I HATE
TO SEE THE GUY WHO TESTIFIED
GETTING MORE TIME THAN THE
PEOPLE WHO WITH -- PEOPLE WHO
WENT TO TRIAL.
IF WHAT WE WANT IN THE FUTURE IS
OTHER COPS TO TESTIFY ABOUT BAD
CONDUCT OF THEIR COLLEAGUES,
THIS ISN'T A VERY GOOD WAY TO DO
IT.
>> IF A JUDGE GOES ABOVE OR
BELOW THE -- THE WAY I
UNDERSTAND IT, PARTICULARLY
ABOVE IT, YOU -- AND I AGREE
WITH YOU, BASICALLY.
SURE, YOU WOULD EXPECT.
THAT'S WHY I SAY I WOULD THINK
MR. BOON HAS GOT TO BE CONCERNED
ABOUT THAT PERHAPS, ALTHOUGH I
DON'T KNOW IF IT WORKS THAT WAY.
IT IS THE POINT SYSTEM.
IT IS THE GUIDELINES.
IF THE JUDGE VIOLATES --
>> BUT THEY CAN GO ABOVE AND
BELOW, RAY.
>> BUT IF THEY DO --
>> NOT ONLY CAN THEY GO ABOVE OR
BELOW, BUT LIKE JOHN RALLO, IF
LATER RANDY HAYES HAS HE HAS
SOME SORT OF ILLNESS, WHO KNOWS
IF HE'LL GET OUT OR IF HE GOES
TO SOME SORT OF REHAB PROGRAM
LIKE STEVE STENGER DID, MAYBE
HE'LL BE OUT IN TWO YEARS.
>> I'M NOT EVEN DEFENDING THE
JUDGE.
I'M JUST SAYING IF THEY DO,
THEY'RE MORE SUBJECT TO GETTING
OVERTURN TO APPEAL AND A LOT OF
JUDGES DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN
TO THEM.
>> OKAY, SPEAKING OF THE COURTS,
BILL, EUGENE KROGG JR. RELEASED
A EXPLETIVE IN COURT, BASICALLY
EXPLETIVE YOU, THIS JUDGE GAVE
THE ATTORNEY A WEEK IN JAIL FOR
CURSING AT HIM.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW EITHER OF
THOSE FELLOWS.
I CALLED UP A GOOD FRIEND OF
MINE AND HE DIDN'T KNOW THE
LAWYER AND HE DIDN'T KNOW THE
JUDGE, BUT HE KNEW THE CURSOR
AND HE SAID THAT YOU -- 75 YEARS
OLD, YOUNG MAN IN HIS PRIME, AND
HE SAID THAT HE'S A GOOD FELLOW
AND HE SAID, I'D REALLY LIKE TO
KNOW WHAT WAS BEHIND THIS.
BUT AS FAR AS THE JUDGE PUTTING
THE GUY IN JAIL, I THINK THAT
THERE SHOULD BE DECORUM IN COURT
AND LIKE I THINK A JUDGE, YOU
KNOW, OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO SAY TO
SOMEBODY, I DON'T LIKE THE WAY
YOU'RE DRESSED.
THAT'S NOT RESPECTFUL TO THE
COURT.
AND IF SOMEBODY CURSES AT A
JUDGE, I THINK THE JUDGE IS WELL
WITHIN HIS OR HER RIGHTS TO SAY
I'M NOT GOING TO TOLERATE THAT
AND TO THROW THE GUY IN JAIL.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
THAT.
>> WELL, I JUST THINK A WEEK IS
TOO MUCH.
IF HE TOLD HIM, HEY, GO TO HADES
AND GET ONE DAY, TOLD HIM TO
KISS SOMETHING, YOU GET THREE
DAYS.
IT WASN'T JUST THE EXTREME
LANGUAGE HE USED.
I KNOW SOMEBODY WHO HAD JURY
DUTY THIS WEEK AND SOMEBODY IN
THE LARGE JURY FOOL REFUSED TO
PUT -- POOL REFUSED TO PUT A
MASK ON.
APPARENTLY THEY TALKED TO HIM
AND JUST ESCORTED HIM OUT OF THE
BUILDING.
TO ME, HE SHOULD HAVE GOT A
WEEK.
>> MAYBE A WEEK IS A LITTLE
LONG, ALVIN, BUT IF I WAS A
JUDGE, I'D WANT IT KNOWN THAT
YOU DON'T COME IN AND CURSE AT
ME BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE MY
DECISIONS.
>> WHY DID -- WHO CUSSED OUT
THE LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE DURING
THE ERIC GREITENS STUFF?
WHAT ATTORNEY WAS THAT?
WAS IT AL WATKINS?
NOTHING HAPPENED TO HIM.
>> I AGREE WITH ALVIN THAT IT
SEEMS A LITTLE MUCH, A WEEK.
A LITTLE SHOCK TIME FOR 24
HOURS, BUT I THINK YOU MAKE A
CASE FOR MAYBE THERE NEEDS TO BE
SENTENCING GUIDELINES FOR CURSE
WORDS, YOU KNOW.
LIKE HAVE A SCALE.
GEORGE CARLIN'S SEVEN DIRTY
WORDS GET A CERTAIN --
>> I REMEMBER BEING IN COURT
WHEN A DEFENDANT SAID TO THE
JUDGE, YOU'RE A LYING SOB AND
THE JUDGE JUST IGNORED HIM AND
HE SAID YOU'RE A PERSIDIOUS SOB
AND THE JUDGE SENT HIM TO JAIL.
I ASKED THE JUDGE ABOUT IT AND
HE SAID I CAN IGNORE IT, BUT IF
I HAVE TO LOOK UP A WORD, HE'S
GOING TO JAIL.
>> WELL, JUSTICE IS SACRED.
YOU HAVE THESE COURTHOUSE
SHOOTINGS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT
DECORUM, BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE
SOCKED HIM WITH A FINE AS WELL.
>> SO MUCH FOR FREEDOM OF SPEECH
IN A COURTROOM.
THANK YOU, EVERYBODY, FOR YOUR
OPINION.
DON'T GO AWAY.
IN A MOMENT, WE'RE GOING TO TALK
ABOUT MAKING OUR AREA WALKABLE
AND BIKEABLE AND HOW THAT NIGHT
NEED TO MORE ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT.
CINDY MENSE OF TRAILNET AND
SARAH ARNOSKY OF GREATER
ST. LOUIS INC. ARE JOINING OUR
FOUNDERS, BILL McCLELLAN AND RAY
HARTMANN, ON DONNYBROOK NEXT UP.
>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE
POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE
BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON
FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF
NINE PBS.
>> WELCOME TO NEXT UP.
WE'RE JOINED TONIGHT BY CINDY
MENSE OF TRAILNET AND SARAH
ARNOSKY OF GREATER ST. LOUIS,
INC.
WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
>> SO TELL US, YOU'RE INVOLVED
IN THE BUSINESS OF MAKING
ST. LOUIS A BIKING AND WALKABLE
REGION.
TELL US HOW YOU'RE GOING ABOUT
DOING THAT.
>> GREAT.
THANKS, RAY.
I'LL GET STARTED.
I'M CINDY MENSE, THE CEO OF
TRAILNET, AND TRAIL NET, WE'RE A
32-YEAR-OLD ORGANIZATION IN
ST. LOUIS, A BIKEABLE/PEDESTRIAN
ADVOCACY ORG.
IT WORKS TO MAKE THE STREETS
SAFER FOR PEOPLE TO WALKING
BIKE, AND USE TRANSIT AS A WAY
OF LIFE.
WE HAVE A TERRIFIC PARTNERSHIP
WITH GREATER ST. LOUIS, INC., ON
TRYING TO MOVE BETTER
INFRASTRUCTURE FORWARD.
SARAH?
>> THANKS, CINDY.
YEAH, MY NAME IS SARAH ARNOSKY,
I'M VICE PRESIDENT OF GREATER
ST. LOUIS INC.
I BELIEVE YOU HAD OUR CEO, JASON
HALL, ON THE SHOW A COUPLE WEEKS
AGO.
HAPPY TO BE HERE.
AS CINDY MENTIONED, FROM OUR
PERSPECTIVE OF GREATER
ST. LOUIS, INC., WHICH IS AN
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CIVIC
ORGANIZATION, WE RECOGNIZE THE
VALUE OF HAVING A BIKE AND
PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY COMMUNITY
AND HOW THAT CONTRIBUTES IN MANY
WAYS, BUT PARTICULARLY IT'S
ECONOMIC IMPACT.
AND SO REALLY WANTING TO PLAY A
CRITICAL ROLE AND HELP GET
THINGS MOVING FORWARD TO MAKE
SURE WE ARE KEEPING UP WITH OUR
PEER CITIES AND MAKING ST. LOUIS
ONE OF THE BEST BIKING
COMMUNITIES AND CITIES AROUND
THE -- REGIONS, REALLY, AROUND
THE COUNTRY.
>> YOU INDICATED YOU'RE 32 --
BILL, GO AHEAD.
>> NO, I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY,
I LOVE TO WALK.
I'M A WALKER, AND WHEN I WAS
WORKING DOWNTOWN ALL THE TIME, I
WOULD OFTEN GO AND WALK ALONG
THE RIVER.
THERE'S A RIVER TRAIL JUST NORTH
OF DOWNTOWN, AND I'D WALK DOWN
TO PRODUCE ROW SOMETIMES, AND
THE PROBLEM WITH IT IS THE FLOOD
WALL GENERALLY SEPARATES THE
WALKER OR THE BIKER.
THERE WOULD BE BICYCLISTS, FROM
THE RIVER.
I THINK TO MYSELF, HERE'S THIS
GREAT RESOURCE, THE RIVER, AND
I'M ON THE RIVER TRAIL, BUT I
CAN'T SEE THE RIVER MOST OF THE
TIME.
I MEAN, HOW CAN WE UTILIZE OUR
RIVER A LITTLE BIT BETTER?
>> YEAH, THAT'S A REALLY GREAT
QUESTION.
SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW -- ONE
OF THE THINGS THAT GREATER
ST. LOUIS, INC., HAS ALSO PAR
TAKEN IN THE DESIGN OF DOWNTOWN
ST. LOUIS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
ONE OF THE KEY STRATEGIES THAT
WAS IDENTIFIED WAS HOW DO WE
RE-ENGAGE AND CELEBRATE OUR
CONNECTION TO THE RIVER.
SO YOU DO HAVE THE GREENWAY THAT
GOES ALONG THE RIVER, BUT I
TOTALLY HEAR YOU THAT THERE'S A
WALL THAT DOES BLOCK THE VIEW
AND THAT CONNECTION TO THE
RIVER.
I KNOW THAT THERE'S BEEN A LOT
OF DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES.
I KNOW THAT CINDY AT TRAILNET,
THEY HELP COLLECT FOLKS TO GO ON
RIVER RIDES.
I DON'T KNOW IF, CINDY, YOU WANT
TO SPEAK TO THAT AS WELL.
>> SURE.
I JUST WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT
THE RIVERFRONT TRAIL IS A TRAIL
THAT TRAILNET ESTABLISHED IN
PARTNERSHIP WITH THE CITY OF
ST. LOUIS MANY YEARS AGO, SO
THAT'S A LEGACY PROJECT OF OURS.
IT DOES NEED -- IT NEEDS CARE
AND ATTENTION SO THAT PEOPLE
CONTINUE TO USE IT AND FEEL SAFE
IN THAT AREA.
IT DOES CONTINUE TO BE A BIT OF
A CHALLENGE.
WHEN THE RIVERFRONT WAS REDONE,
WE DO HAVE SOME REALLY GREAT
INFRASTRUCTURE THAT TRB PUT IN
ALONG LEWIS K. SULLIVAN DRIVE
AND THAT CERTAINLY HAS HELPED
WITH THAT CONNECTION.
>> FOR THOSE THAT DON'T FOLLOW
YOUR WORK, HOW MUCH -- THERE'S
TOO MANY PEOPLE THAT DON'T
REALLY KEEP UP WITH EVERYTHING
THAT'S GOING ON.
HOW MUCH DIFFERENT IS ST. LOUIS
TODAY THAN IN 1989 WHEN TRAILNET
WAS FOUNDED?
WHAT -- CAN YOU POINT TO, WHAT
HAVE WE DONE TO DEVELOP OVER
THAT PERIOD?
>> SURE.
SO ST. LOUIS HAS REALLY CHANGED
OVER THE YEARS.
ONE THING THAT WE KNOW IS THAT
POPULATION-WISE, THIS CITY WAS
BUILT FOR ABOUT A MILLION PEOPLE
AND AS WE LOSE POPULATION, WE
STILL HAVE THESE ROADWAYS, THESE
BIG WIDE ROADWAYS WHERE THE
STREETCARS USED TO BE, SO YOU'VE
GOT STREETS THAT ARE 40 AND 50
FEET WIDE THAT ARE ACTUALLY
CONNECTING JUST NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND SO WE HAVE THIS GREAT STREET
GRID THAT ALSO CAN BE -- THE
STREET GRID COULD BE USED IN A
WAY TO MAKE SURE ROOM FOR
PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS TO FEEL
SAFER ON THE ROADWAYS.
SO WE'RE MAINTAINING A LOT OF
ROADWAY AND THERE'S ROOM TO ADD
IN INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WOULD
MAKE IT SAFER FOR PEOPLE WALKING
AND BIKING.
SO THE CHANGES THAT HAVE
HAPPENED OVER THE YEARS, WE USED
TO BE HAPPY WITH JUST A PAINTED
BIKE LANE ON THE ROAD OR SOME
SHARROWS, BUT THE NATIONAL
ASSOCIATION OF TRANSPORTATION
OFFICIALS HAVE UPGRADED THE TYPE
OF INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS GOING
TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFEST.
AND SO NOW WHAT WE'RE LOOKING
FOR ARE WHAT WE CALL PROTECTED
BIKE LANES OR CYCLE TRACKS.
SO THAT WAS -- THAT'S A PROJECT
THAT, TOGETHER WITH GREATER
ST. LOUIS, INC., TRAILNET HELPED
PROMOTE THIS TOWER GROVE
CONNECTOR.
YOU ARE GOING TO SEE SOME OF THE
BEST INFRASTRUCTURE IN ST. LOUIS
FOR KEEPING FOLKS SAFE WHILE
WALKING AND BIKING WHERE THEY'RE
PHYSICALLY SEPARATED FROM
TRAFFIC.
THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF
INFRASTRUCTURE NOW THAT WE'RE
SEEING MORE AND MORE OF.
THERE'S ONE PLANNED FOR 20th
STREET, ONE PLANNED FOR TUCKER
BOULEVARD.
BOTH OF THOSE ARE FUNDED AS WELL
AS TOWER GROVE, THE TOWER GROVER
CONNECTOR.
SO WE'RE STARTING TO SEE A SHIFT
IN THAT DIRECTION.
MAYBE YOU LIVE BY UNION
BOULEVARD.
THE CITY HAS PUT IN A PROTECTED
BIKEWAY AND THEY'RE TESTING OUT
NEW INFRASTRUCTURE.
THESE THINGS ARE CALLED
ARMADILLOS, THESE RUBBER
PROTECTORS THAT ARE IN THE
STREET OR THESE MOUNDS THAT
WOULD KEEP CARS FROM GOING INTO
THE BIKE LANE.
SO IT USED TO BE ENOUGH JUST TO
HAVE ROOM FOR A BIKE, BUT NOW
WITH THE SIZE OF CARS AND
DISTRACTED DRIVING, WHAT PEOPLE
REALLY ARE DESIRING IS MORE
PROTECTED INFRASTRUCTURE AND
IT'S JUST REALLY EXCITING TO SEE
AN ORGANIZATION LIKE GREATER
ST. LOUIS, INC., EMBRACE THIS
TYPE OF INFRASTRUCTURE.
>> YEAH, I MEAN, WE'D LOVE TO
SEE -- YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT
THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT THE MDA IS
GOING TO, 20th STREET IS A
DIRECT ROUTE UP TO THAT.
THE NEW JOBS AT THE MDA, BUT
ALSO HOW THAT'S GOING TO SPUR
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ALONG 20th
STREET.
WE'VE SEEN THAT IN A LOT OF
OTHER COMMUNITIES WHERE YOU'RE
CREATING THIS AMENITY THAT IS
EXCITING FOR PEOPLE THAT ALREADY
LIVE THERE, BUT ALSO ATTRACTS
NEW RESIDENTS AND EMPLOYEES,
WHICH THEN ATTRACTS EMPLOYERS,
WHICH THEN ATTRACTS INVESTMENT
AND MORE TAX REVENUE.
IT'S REALLY A CYCLICAL PROCESS
THAT DOES HAVE MULTIPLE BENEFITS
IN ADDITION TO CREATING A SAFE
ROUTE TO GET FROM POINT A TO
POINT B.
>> AND RAY, MOST OF THESE
CONNECTIONS ARE CONNECTING NORTH
AND SOUTH INTO AREAS OF
STRENGTH.
SO ST. LOUIS TENDS TO BE AN
EAST-WEST CITY, RIGHT?
OUR BEST CONNECTIONS, YOU'RE
GOING TO SEE GOING EAST TO WEST.
SO A LOT OF TIMES NORTH AND
SOUTH IS CUT OUT.
SO BEING ABLE TO HAVE THIS TYPE
OF INFRASTRUCTURE TO CONNECT
PEOPLE INTO AREAS OF STRENGTH,
CONNECT THEM INTO TRANSIT, CAN
REALLY BE A GAME CHANGER.
>> WILL YOU BE, LIKE, RUNNING
BIKE PATHS LIKE WHERE THE MDA
IS?
IS THAT --
>> 20th STREET IS --
>> WHAT'S THAT?
>> 20th STREET HAS BEEN FUNDED.
>> HOW FAR NORTH DOES IT GO?
>> IT WILL REACH THE MDA.
STARTING NOW IN JEFFERSON AND
20th STREET AND PRIMARILY IT
WILL BE A PROTECTED CYCLE TRACK,
BUT THEIR DESIGN STILL NEEDS TO
HAPPEN.
>> AND HOW FAR SOUTH --
>> WE NEED TO MEET WITH THE
COMMUNITY TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT
WHAT THEIR NEEDS ARE.
>> AND HOW ABOUT SOUTH?
THE SAME WAY, DID YOU DETERMINE
HOW FAR --
>> THAT WILL BE TO UNION
STATION.
>> YEAH, THAT WILL BE A NICE
CONNECTION INTO THE OTHER MAJOR
GREENWAY, THE BROOKLINE
GREENWAY, SO REALLY THINKING AS
CINDY MENTIONED, HOW ARE WE
KNITTING NEIGHBORHOODS NORTH AND
SOUTH AND BEING IN CLOSE
PARTNERSHIP WITH THE FOLKS OVER
AT THE GREENWAY TO MAKE SURE
THESE ALL COMPLEMENT EACH OTHER
AND CREATE A BROADER NETWORK
THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
>> TO GO A LITTLE FURTHER
AFIELD, THERE'S THE KATY TRAIL,
CHI LIKE IT IMMENSELY -- WHICH
I LIKE THE KATY TRAIL IMMENSELY
AND I'VE WALKED IT A LONG WAY,
BUT DO WE HAVE A WAY TO
BICYCLISTS TO GET FROM ST. LOUIS
TO THE KATY TRAIL EASILY?
I'M NOT A BICYCLIST, BUT FOR THE
BICYCLIST TO GET TO THE KATY
TRAIL AND ZIP DOWN TO DEFIANCE
OR HERMAN SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT
TRIP AND I DON'T KNOW HOW EASY
IT IS TO GET FROM THE CITY TO
THE KATY TRAIL ON A BICYCLE.
>> THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION,
BILL.
OBVIOUSLY IF YOU START IN
ST. CHARLES WHERE THE TRAIL
STARTS --
>> THAT'S WHERE I START WALKING,
BUT I DRIVE TO ST. CHARLES.
FRIENDS WHO ARE CYCLISTS, HOW
WOULD YOU BICYCLE THERE?
>> PERSONALLY, I'VE TAKEN THE
BUS TO CHESTERFIELD AND HOPPED
ON TO THE TRAIL IN CHESTERFIELD
TO GET THERE, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT,
IT COULD CERTAINLY BE
PRIORITIZED.
SOME PEOPLE WILL USE THE TRAIN
AND THEY'LL TAKE THE TRAIN TO
WASHINGTON, MISSOURI, AND THEN
TRY AND GET TO THE TRAIL FROM
THERE IF FOLKS DON'T WANT TO GET
IN THE CAR.
HOW HAVE YOU DONE IT, SARAH?
>> UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S NOT A
GREAT CYCLING OR PEDESTRIAN
ROUTE FROM THE CITY ITSELF, BUT
YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT WITH
THE KATY TRAIL, WHAT A WONDERFUL
ASSET IT IS FOR THE REGION AND
WE DO KNOW, COMPETING WITH SITE
SELECTORS, EVERYTHING FROM THE
KATY TRAIL DOWN TO THESE SECOND
BIKEWAYS ARE JUST IMPORTANT
ASSETS SO I THINK AS YOU'RE
MENTIONING, LINKING THEM
TOGETHER WOULD BE A GREAT FUTURE
PROJECT.
>> HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHERE TO
PUT THESE?
IN OTHER WORDS, IS IT -- YOU
TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS
GREAT, BUT THESE -- IT'S SORT OF
A CHICKEN AND AN EGG QUESTION.
DO YOU LOOK FOR PLACES THAT HAVE
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TO SUPPORT
AND COVER SUCH AS LIKE FOR
EXAMPLE WHEN THE NGA IS BUILT,
YOU OBVIOUSLY WOULD HAVE A PLACE
TO GO TO, OR DOES IT GO IN THE
OTHER DIRECTION WHERE YOU JUST
DECIDE WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO AND
HOPE THAT DEVELOPMENT SPRINGS UP
AROUND IT?
>> RAY, IT REALLY BEGAN -- SO
TRAILNET BEGAN THIS EFFORT IN
2016.
WE LAUNCHED THIS BOLD VISION FOR
HOW DO WE CONNECT ST. LOUIS FOR
BETTER AND SAFER WALKING AND
BIKING.
THE PLAN WAS CALLED CONNECTING
ST. LOUIS.
IT WASN'T FUNDED BY ANYONE
EXCEPT TRAILNET MEMBERS, AND
JUST THROUGH TRAILNET GENERAL
FUNDRAISING TO DO THIS PROJECT.
AND WE WERE ABLE TO PUT THE
PEOPLE -- PUT THE PEOPLE'S IDEAS
FIRST.
WE WORKED WITH THE CITY OF
ST. LOUIS.
WE HAD EIGHT DIFFERENT
DEPARTMENTS FROM THE CITY OF
ST. LOUIS JOINING US.
JASON HALL JOINED US ON ONE OF
OUR COMMITTEES AS WELL, GREAT
RIVERS GREENWAY.
SOME OF THE UNIVERSITIES JOINED
US.
WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY BUSINESS
INTERESTS IN THIS.
IT WAS REALLY JUST ORGANIZATIONS
LOOKING AT WHAT KIND OF
INFRASTRUCTURE DO WE NEED AND
WHERE DO PEOPLE NEED TO CONNECT
FOR ACCESS TO TRANSIT AND TO
OPPORTUNITIES.
WE HAD OVER 4,000 RESPONDENTS TO
HELP US SORT THROUGH WHERE ARE
THESE OPPORTUNITY STREETS AND
WHERE DO THEY EXIST.
AND SO THROUGH THAT PROCESS, IT
TOOK US ABOUT TWO YEARS.
SEVERAL PROJECTS, SEVERAL
STREETS CAME FORWARD.
WE HAVE ABOUT 12 MILES OF
CONNECTIONS THAT WE PROPOSED,
AND THAT'S WHERE OUR PARTNERS
LIKE GREATER ST. LOUIS, INC.,
CAME IN AND SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT.
THIS CONNECTION HERE TO TOWER
GROVE PARK IS SOMETHING THAT
APPEALED TO THEM.
SO I CAN LET SARAH TALK MORE
ABOUT THAT, BUT CURRENTLY WE
HAVE ABOUT 40% OF THE ROUTES WE
PROPOSED EITHER FUNDED FOR
FEDERAL CONSTRUCTION OR THEY'RE
ABLE TO BE TAKEN UP BY ENTITIES
WHO WOULD BE ABLE TO BUILD THEM.
SO THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS MIGHT
BE LEADING THE EFFORT, FOR
INSTANCE, ON 20th STREET AND
GREAT RIVERS GREENWAY ADOPTING A
CONNECTION UP TO FAIRGROUNDS
PARK AS WELL.
SO IT'S REALLY AN IDEA THAT'S
RESONATING.
>> YEAH, PERFECT.
SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY TO THE
TOWER GROVE CONNECTOR, AGAIN,
THAT'S A 1.4-MILE PROTECTED BIKE
LANE FROM TOWER GROVE PARK ALL
THE WAY UP TO THE GROVE.
SO YOU ASK THE QUESTION, IS IT
ABOUT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, IS
IT ABOUT NEEDS.
THIS WAS ACTUALLY A REALLY
WONDERFUL ROUTE BECAUSE IT
ALREADY IS IN ONE OF THE MOST
TRAVELED BIKE ROUTES IN THE
CITY.
A LOT OF FOLKS ARE USING THAT TO
GET TO THEIR JOBS AT THE EJC
CAMPUS OR TO CORTEX, SO YOU KIND
OF ALREADY HAD A GOOD LEVEL OF
TRAFFIC HAPPENING, SO PEOPLE
WANTED TO SEE AN EVEN BETTER
INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE.
SO THEN WHAT WE ALSO LOVED ABOUT
ROUTE IS YOU'RE CONNECTING TOWER
GROVE PARK TO THE BOTANICAL
GARDEN.
ALL THE NEW LITTLE SHOPS THAT
ARE POPPING UP ON BOTANICAL
HEIGHTS, YOU HAVE ENDO AND UNION
LOAFERS AND IT'S BRAND NEW ICE
CREAM SANDWICH PLACE, ALL THESE
LITTLE INTERSECTION AND THEN YOU
GO FURTHER NORTH ITEM ALONG
VANDEVENTER, IT'S JUST RIPE WITH
POTENTIAL.
YOU ALREADY HAVE ROCKWELL
BREWERY RIGHT THERE, AND THEN
THERE'S ALL THESE OTHER IDEAS
FOR DEVELOPMENT THAT WHEN YOU
ADD SOMETHING LIKE A CYCLE TRACK
TO IT, IT JUST GETS PEOPLE EVEN
MORE EXCITED AND THEY WANT TO
INVEST AND BE A PART OF THIS
MOMENTUM THAT'S HAPPENING.
>> AND THE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT
THEY SPEND MORE MONEY.
SO PEOPLE ON BIKES STOP MORE
FREQUENTLY AND THEY SPEND MORE
MONEY BECAUSE THEY'RE SHOPPING
MORE FREQUENTLY AND GETTING TO
KNOW THINGS ON A HUMAN SCALE.
SO THEY'LL SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S
ON SALE AT THE SHOPS BECAUSE
THEY'RE MOVING SLOWLY ENOUGH TO
SEE ALL THAT AS THEY GO THROUGH.
>> SEVERAL YEARS AGO, THERE WERE
COMPETING BICYCLE RENTAL PLACES
WHERE YOU'D SEE THESE BIKES
LAYING AROUND ALL THE TIME.
I MEAN, ONE WAS LIME GREEN AND
ANOTHER WAS SOMETHING ELSE, AND
I THOUGHT, WELL, THIS IS KIND OF
EXCITING.
MORE PEOPLE BICYCLING, AND ALL
OF A SUDDEN, THEY WERE GONE.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT?
>> I MISS THOSE BIKES.
BUT GO AHEAD, CINDY.
>> WELL, I TELL YOU WHAT.
I'VE ALWAYS HEARD REALLY GREAT
THINGS WHEN PEOPLE SAW THE BIKE
SHARE BIKES, EVEN THE CRABBY
PEOPLE WHO WOULD LIKE, YOU BIKE
PEOPLE, WERE EXCITED ABOUT THE
BIKE SHARE BIKES.
WHAT SEEMED TO HAPPEN IS IT LAID
THE GROUNDWORK FOR THE SCOOTERS,
WHICH ARE EASIER FOR THE
COMPANIES TO PLACE.
THEY CAN PUT MORE OF THE
SCOOTERS OUT AND YOU DON'T HAVE
TO BE ABLE TO RIDE A BIKE.
SOME MORE DENSE CITIES ARE
SEEING ELECTRIC BIKES AS PART OF
THE ASSET -- THE RESOURCES THAT
ARE COMING TO THEIR CITIES.
ST. LOUIS YET HASN'T BEEN ON
THAT LIST TO GET ELECTRIC BIKES
INCLUDED AS PART OF THE
OFFERINGS.
I'M SURE YOU SAW THE SCOERS
COMING BACK ON THE STREETS AND
SCOOTERS, YOU KNOW, WE CALL THEM
BIKE LANES, BUT THESE LANES,
THEY'RE MULTI-USE LANES FOR
PEOPLE USING MOTORIZED DEVICES
LIKE WHEELCHAIRS AND ALSO FOR
SCOOTERS.
SO THE BIKES, I THINK THAT THEY
BECAME JUST TOO EXPENSIVE FOR
THE COMPANIES TO KEEP UP AND
THEY CAN MAKE MORE MONEY ON THE
SCOOTERS.
>> ARE THE BICYCLES WORKING
ANYWHERE?
I MEAN, THE RENTAL BIKES THAT
SEEMED LIKE WAS SUCH A GROWING
THING?
>> WELL, IN INDIANAPOLIS THEY'RE
WORKING GREAT AROUND THE
INDIANAPOLIS CULTURAL TRAIL.
THEY'RE STILL USING THEM IN
KANSAS CITY, BIKE WALK KC,
SIMILAR TO TRAILNET.
THEY ACTUALLY RUN IT WITH SOME
FEDERAL SUPPORT FOR FUNDING, FOR
DOING THAT.
YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THEM IN D.C.
AND CHICAGO.
IN D.C., YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A
CAR THAT'S GOING TO TAKE --
>> WHY CAN'T WE HAVE THAT HERE?
WHY CAN'T WE HAVE NICE THINGS?
>> I THINK BILL WANTS TO RENT A
BIKE.
>> YEAH, HAVING A SMOOTH
TRANSITION FROM USING TRANSIT TO
BEING ABLE TO USE SCOOTER OR A
BIKE, I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR
CMT, BUT I KNOW -- I MEAN FOR
METRO TRANSIT, I KNOW THEY'RE
NOT AGAINST IT AND THOSE ARE
CERTAINLY ADVANCES THAT WILL
MAKE THE SYSTEM EASIER FOR THAT
LAST MILE CONNECTION.
>> AND I THINK THE OTHER PIECE,
TOO, AS WE BUILD OUT THE BIKE
NETWORK AND WE GET MORE CYCLISTS
OUT THERE, THERE'S ALWAYS -- YOU
KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DO
BIKE A LOT IN ST. LOUIS WILL
TELL YOU THERE'S A LOT OF
OPPORTUNITIES FOR CONSISTS OF
CARS.
IT REALLY IS SOMETHING THAT
NEEDS TO BE MORE NORMALIZED FOR
LACK OF A BETTER TERM, FOR
PEOPLE RIDING BIKES AROUND.
YOU SAY YOU CAN'T HAVE NICE
THINGS AND THEN PEOPLE TAKE CARE
OF THEM AND THEY CONTINUE TO USE
THEM.
>> YOU MENTIONED JASON HALL
EARLIER, WHO OF COURSE, IS THE
CEO OF GREATER ST. LOUIS, INC.
I ASSUME WHEN HE WAS TAKING PART
IN THIS, THAT WAS PART OF ARTS
TO THE PARK, CORRECT?
>> YES, I HAD WORKED UNDER JASON
AS ARCH TO THE PARK AND WE
KICKED OFF THIS PROJECT AND
CARRIED IT FORWARD.
>> IS IT THE PRIVATE SECTOR THAT
ARCH TO THE PARK IS INVESTING IT
OR IS IT MORE OF A COMMUTER --
IN OTHER WORDS, I DON'T KNOW HOW
MUCH INVESTMENT IS INVOLVED IN
BUILDING THESE AND WHETHER THE
PRIVATE SECTOR IS INVOLVED OR
THE PUBLIC OR BOTH IN MAKING
DECISIONS WHERE TO INVEST IN
THESE TRAILS AND SO FORTH.
>> YEAH, GREAT QUESTION.
SO BECAUSE THIS PROJECT
INITIALLY LAUNCHED WITH --
EXCUSE ME, WITH APPLYING TO
FEDERAL GRANT MONEY, SO THIS IS
VERY MUCH A PRIVATE-PUBLIC
PARTNERSHIP, SO THIS PARTICULAR
STRETCH, THE TOWER GROVE
CONNECTOR, DOES HAVE A
$5.6 MILLION FEDERAL GRANT THAT
IS GOING TOWARDS CONSTRUCTION.
BUT WE HAD AS ARCH TO PARK AND
NOW GREATER ST. LOUIS, INC., HAS
ALSO COMMITTED FUNDING FOR THE
PRIVATE MATCH IN ADDITION TO THE
APPLICATION PROCESS, IN ADDITION
TO THE ENGINEERING AND DESIGN
PHASE OF THIS PROJECT.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE ARE ONE OF MANY
PARTNERS THAT ARE PARTICIPATING
IN THE PROJECT, BUT WE ARE ONE
OF THE LEAD FUNDERS TO MAKE IT
HAPPEN.
BECAUSE, AGAIN, WE RECOGNIZE HOW
IMPORTANT IT IS FOR OUR REGION
TO GROW, TO HAVE THESE KINDS OF
AMENITIES.
>> CAN I SAY, HOW MUCH IS THAT
INVESTMENT?
>> ALL IN, IT'S -- I'M GOING
TO -- I THINK IT'S ABOUT
2.6 MILLION.
>> FROM THE PRIVATE -- FROM ARCH
TO PARK OR GREATER ST. LOUIS?
>> CORRECT.
>> I GUESS IT -- OKAY.
>> I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT EARLY
ON WHEN ARCH TO THE PARK
EMBRACED THIS PROJECT, THEY PAID
FOR AN ENGINEERING STUDY TO JUST
MAKE US READY TO APPLY FOR THE
FUNDS THROUGH THE CITY.
SO THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS HAS
BEEN A GREAT PARTNER WORKING
THROUGH THIS AND WE'VE HAD
ALDERMEN WHO DEDICATED SOME OF
THEIR FUNDING TOWARD GETTING
THIS DONE, SO MANY PARTNERS HAVE
COME TOGETHER TO REALLY MAKE
THIS A SUCCESS.
>> YEAH, AND JUST TO REITERATE
AGAIN, THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS,
THAT'S HOW WE -- THEY'RE THE
MAIN PARTNER ON THIS BECAUSE WE
CAN'T APPLY FOR FUNDS FROM THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WITHOUT THE
PARTNERSHIP OF THE CITY, SO THEY
REALLY HAVE BEEN ADVOCATES IN
WANTING TO SEE THESE KINDS OF
PROJECTS MOVE FORWARD ALL
THROUGHOUT.
>> DO YOU THINK WE HAVE MORE
HOSTILITY FROM DRIVERS TOWARD
BICYCLES IN THIS CITY THAN IN
MOST CITIES?
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE
WHENEVER THERE'S A CONVERSATION
ABOUT BICYCLISTS, SOME GRUMPY
OLD GUY USUALLY WILL SAY, OH,
THOSE BICYCLISTS, THEY'RE ON
CLAYTON ROAD, TAKING UP AN
ENTIRE LANE.
AND IF YOU SAY, SIR, WITH EVER
TO SHARE THE ROAD, PEOPLE GET
UPSET AND COMPLAIN ABOUT
BICYCLISTS.
IS THAT COMMON EVERYWHERE OR IS
THAT MORE PREVALENT HERE?
>> CAN WE EMPHASIZE, WE ARE NOT
THE GRUMPY OLD GUYS.
YOU JUST PUT IT --
>> YOU'RE NOT EVEN THE OLD GUYS.
STILL A YOUNG GUY.
>> I THINK YOU'RE KIND OF
SORTING OUT THERE THINGS.
THE ACTIVITY YOU SEE A CLAYTON
ROAD, THAT'S OFTEN ON THE
WEEKENDS, RIGHT?
>> YES.
>> AND YOU MIGHT SEE LARGER
GROUPS OF FOLKS RECREATING
AND --
>> SOMETIMES YOU JUST SEE TWO
PEOPLE AND THEY'LL BE RIDING
ALONG IN THE RIGHT-HAND LANE,
BUT NOT SINGLE FILE.
SO PEOPLE DO HAVE TO GO AROUND
THEM.
I MEAN, I'M -- I'M NOT
IMPATIENT, BUT MANY PEOPLE ARE.
>> YES.
>> TWO PEOPLE SIDE BY SIDE
PROBABLY TAKE LESS ROOM THAN AN
SUV.
>> OH, ABSOLUTELY, BUT THEY GO
MUCH SLOWER THAN AN SUV.
>> I WOULD SAY, I'M A BIKE
COMMUTER, SO I LIVE IN YOUR
NEIGHBORHOOD, BILL, AND I BIKE
TO DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS AND I
WOULD SAY OVER THE LAST SEVEN
YEARS, IN BIKING TO WORK, MAYBE
TWO OR THREE TIMES I MIGHT HAVE
BEEN YELLED AT AND TOLD TO GET
ON THE SIDEWALK.
>> THAT'S NOT SO BAD.
>> BUT NOT BY BILL.
NOT BY BILL.
>> THAT'S NOT THAT BAD.
>> I DON'T THINK IT WAS BILL.
>> OKAY.
NO, IT WASN'T ME.
>> HE'S MORE LIKELY TO SAY GET
OFF MY LINE.
>> AT TRAILNET, WE ALSO WORK ON
POLICY, AND SO WE HELP TO
ESTABLISH AN ANTI-HARASSMENT
POLICY SO THAT CYCLISTS CANNOT
BE HARASSED.
SOMEBODY CAN BE PROSECUTED FOR
HARASSING A CYCLIST.
>> REALLY?
>> YOU KNOW, THROWING A PIECE OF
PIZZA AT THEM HAPPENED TO ONE OF
MY INTERNS, BUT WE DID ESTABLISH
THAT BECAUSE WE WANT PEOPLE TO
FEEL SAFE USING TRANSIT, WALKING
BIKING, USING OTHER FORMS OF
TRANSIT AND TRANSPORTATION AND
NOT BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST.
WOMEN FIND THAT A LOT, THAT THEY
CAN BE A TARGET WHILE THEY'RE
WALKING OR BIKING, AND SO WE
HELPED ESTABLISH THAT POLICY IN
ST. LOUIS.
>> WELL, CINDY, IF YOU'RE A
NEIGHBOR OF MINE, I TAKE IT YOU
BICYCLE A LOT IN FOREST PARK?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> RIGHT.
I MEAN, WHAT A GREAT PLACE THAT
IS.
>> AND PART OF THAT IS THAT IT'S
PROTECTED, TOO, RIGHT?
BOTH FOREST PARK HAS PROTECT TD
LANES AND THIS NEW ONE WITH
TOWER GROVE CONNECTOR IS
PROTECTED TO HELP REDUCE SOME OF
THE CONFLICT WITH CARS, BUT THE
OTHER PIECE THAT'S KIND OF
EXCITING ABOUT THESE NEW
INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS, NOT
ONLY SIT BETTER FOR BIKES AND
PEDS, IT'S BETTER FOR CARS TOO
BECAUSE WE'RE ALSO UPGRADING
SOME OF THE SIGNALS.
YOU'RE NO LONGER SITTING AT RED
LIGHTS EVERY TIME YOU HIT A
LIGHT, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO BE
COORDINATED TO HELP WITH THE
FLOW OF TRAFFIC AND REDUCE ANY
IDLING TO HELP IMPROVE THE AIR
QUALITY AS WELL.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHILE WE
FOCUS A LOT ON THE BIKE/PED, IT
ACTUALLY DOES HAVE IMPROVEMENTS
FOR CARS AS WELL.
>> OKAY.
>> AND IT'S WONDERFUL WORK.
HAVE YOU EVER QUAUN IF I TI FIDE
THE IMPACT -- QUANTIFIED THE
IMPACT YOU'RE HAVING?
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU MEASURE HOW
MANY PEOPLE ARE CYCLING, BUT
THERE IS A WAY TO DO THAT, TO
SAY WE HAVE THIS MANY MORE
CYCLISTS THAN WE DID?
>> THERE'S A VARIETY OF WAYS WE
MEASURE.
ONE OF THOSE IS APPLYING TO
BECOME A BIKE FRIENDLY STEP.
ST. LOUIS HAS A SILVER LEVEL,
THEY MOVED UP FROM BRONZE AND
WORKING TOWARD A GOLD LEVEL
RECOGNITION OR PLATINUM.
WE ALSO -- TRAILNET HOSTS, EACH
YEAR WE DO A BIKE COUNT A
BIKE/PED COUNT IN SEPTEMBER, SO
WE'LL SPEND TWO DAYS OUT THERE
COUNTING PEOPLE WALKING AND
BIKING AT VARIOUS LOCATIONS.
WE SECURE A BURCH OF VOLUNTEERS
AND -- A BUNCH OF VOLUNTEERS AND
YOU'LL SEE US OUT THERE WITH OUR
CLIPBOARDS LOOKING NOSY AND
COUNTING PEOPLE WALKING AND
BIKING SO WE CAN GET A BETTER
INDICATION WITH OUR OWN DATA OF
HOW TRAVELED THESE AREAS ARE.
AND WE CAN ALSO COMPARE IT TO
CRAFT DATA.
WE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF CRASH DATA
ON WHERE WE'RE SEEING MORE
CRASHES THAT ARE FATAL FOR
PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS, TO
HELP THE CITY PRIORITIZE WHERE
THEY PUT IN IMPROVEMENTS.
>> OKAY.
SARAH, A MINUTE AGO YOU
MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT
TRAFFIC LIGHTS, THAT THEY'RE
BEING TIMED BETTER OR SOMETHING.
WHERE DO YOU STAND ON BICYCLISTS
WHO COME UP TO A RED LIGHT AND
LOOK AND MAKE SURE NOBODY'S
COMING, BUT THEN CROSS.
I MEAN, I LOOK AT IT AND I THINK
THAT'S PROBABLY A SAFE THING TO
DO, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY
THOSE DARN CYCLISTS, THEY DON'T
PAY ATTENTION TO THE RULES OF
THE ROAD.
WHERE ARE YOU ON THAT?
>> IT'S FUNNY WE HAD A PUBLIC
OPEN HOUSE ON THE TOWER GROVE
CONNECTOR YESTERDAY AND I HAD A
GENTLEMAN COME IN, HE WAS AN
AVID CYCLIST AND HE WAS VERY
ADAMANT THAT IT WAS VERY
IMPORTANT FOR CYCLISTS TO FOLLOW
ALL TRAFFIC RULES BECAUSE AS
SOON AS PEOPLE START BREAKING
THEM, THAT'S WHEN ACCIDENTS
HAPPEN AND PEOPLE GET UPSET.
IT REALLY IS BEST PRACTICE TO
FOLLOW TRAFFIC RULES EVEN THOUGH
IT DOES LOOK CAREER.
DO I FOLLOW THAT EVERY TIME,
I'M -- YOU KNOW.
>> ACTUALLY, THERE IS A STATUTE
FOR A BICYCLIST THAT YOU CAN
STOP FOR A DEAD -- IF A RED
LIGHT ISN'T REGISTERING YOU AS A
CYCLIST, SO KIND OF A FUZZY
AREA, BUT LET'S SAY IT'S ONE OF
THOSE LIGHTS THAT ONLY DETECTS
CARS AND THE LIGHT DOESN'T TURN,
LIKE AT JEFFERSON AND LOCUST, IT
WON'T REGISTER YOU AS A CYCLIST,
SO YOU WON'T GET THE LIGHT.
AND SO THERE IS A LAW THAT
CYCLIST GO THROUGH A DEAD RED BY
COMING TO A STOP.
IF THE RED LIGHT DOESN'T
RECOGNIZE THEM, THEY CAN GO
THROUGH IT.
SO YEAH.
>> NOW WE KNOW.
>> YEAH.
IT IS LEGAL IF IT'S NOT
REGISTERING YOU.
>> WELL, I CAN SEE WHERE IT'S
EVEN A SAFE THING TO DO
SOMETIMES.
I SEE A BICYCLIST COME UP AND HE
OR SHE KNOWS THAT IN A FEW
MINUTES SOMEBODY MIGHT BE COMING
DOWN, BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S CLEAR,
BUT THE DRIVER SITTING THERE
NEXT TO HIM OR HER --
>> WELL, IF A DRIVER WAS THERE
WITH THE CYCLIST, THAT DOESN'T
QUALIFY.
I'M SAYING IF THE CYCLIST --
>> I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE
SAYING.
>> WE'RE OUT OF TIME, RUNNING
OUT OF TIME.
REALLY QUICKLY, WHERE CAN PEOPLE
FIND THESE RULES OF THE ROAD?
CAN YOU TELL US IN TEN SECONDS?
>> YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY FIND THEM
ON TRAILNET'S WEBSITE AT
TRAILNET.ORG.
>> ALL THE RULES OF CYCLING?
WE WANT TO THANK YOU, SARAH
ARNOSKY OF GREATER ST. LOUIS,
INC., AND CINDY MENSE OF
TRAILNET FOR DOING SUCH A GREAT
JOB OF TOLERATING OUR QUESTIONS.
YOU'RE WELCOME BACK ANYTIME ON
NEXT UP.
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR
INSIGHTS.
WE APPRECIATE IT AND TO OUR
DONNYBROOK AUDIENCE, WE WILL SEE
YOU AGAIN NEXT THURSDAY NIGHT.
>> WE HOPE TO SEE YOU ON THE
MOONLIGHT RAMBLE AUGUST 21st.
WE'LL BE IN TOWER GROVE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> BYE.
>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE
POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE
BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON
FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF
NINE PBS.