>>> THAT SEEMS FAIR TO ME.

>> FAIRNESS ISN'T THE ISSUE.

>> I DON'T REALLY THINK --

>> WRONG!

>> WELL, IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT

FAIR IS, YOU CAN'T MAKE IT --

[ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ]

[ BOING ]

[ SOUNDS OF GLASS BREAKING ]

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE

POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS

SUPPORT OF THE MEMBERS OF KETC.

HEY, THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR

ANOTHER EDITION OF DONNYBROOK,

THE FIRST FOR THE SPRING, SUCH

AS IT IS, AND WE THANK THE FOLKS

AT THE GATESWORTH FOR MAKING

THIS PROGRAM POSSIBLE AS YOU'VE

BEEN DOING SO LONG.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

LET'S MEET OUR PANELISTS.

SHE'S THE MEDIA VETERAN HERSELF,

WENDY WIESE.

ALONG WITH MR. BILL McCLELLAN

FROM THE ST. LOUIS

POST-DISPATCH.

FROM ST. LOUIS MAGAZINE, RAY

HARTMANN.

AND FROM STLMAG.COM AND THE

ST. LOUIS AMERICAN, WE SAY HELLO

TO ALVIN REID.

BUT WE KICK THINGS OFF WITH YOU,

MR. ST. LOUIS MAGAZINE, RAY

HARTMANN.

NOW, IT'S YOUR MAGAZINE,

ST. LOUIS.

IS YOUR MAGAZINE GETTING

SMALLER?

BECAUSE THE POPULATION OF THE

CITY OF ST. LOUIS CITY IS ALMOST

300,000 AFTER BEING 850,000 IN

THE EARLY 1950s.

MAYBE MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE

REGION IS REALLY NOT GROWING

THAT MUCH, JUST ADDED ABOUT 500

PEOPLE IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS.

THE COUNTY LOST SOME POPULATION,

AND WE ARE NOT REALLY KEEPING UP

WITH OTHER MIDWESTERN CITIES ARE

A THE NATION AS A WHOLE IN TERMS

OF GROWING POPULATION.

YOU THINK THIS IS A BIG ISSUE.

>> NOT REALLY.

IT'S NOT NEWS.

I MEAN, IT'S PRETTY MUCH OUR

REALITY.

WE KNOW WE'RE SORT OF IN A

STAGNANT POPULATION DEAL.

THE BIG NEWS AS WE PRESENTEDED

IT IS WE WERE PASSED BY

BALTIMORE AS A METROPOLITAN

AREA.

I WENT TO THE BALTIMORE SUN

WEBSITE TO SEE HOW MUCH THEY'RE

CELEBRATING AND THEIR STORY IS

BALTIMORE POPULATION CONTINUES

STEEP DECLINE AND IT'S THE SAME

STORY IN ST. LOUIS.

THE CITY POPULATION, WHICH

ADMITTED MORE IS LIKE 610

INSTEAD 3600, BUT THEY HAVE THE

SAME -- 300, BUT THEY HAVE THE

SAME THING, DOWN 9,000.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN MENTION PASSING

US AS A METROPOLITAN AREA.

AT THIS POINT, I'M NOT AN

APOLOGIST FOR IT.

OUR REALITY IS WE HAVE TO FOCUS

ON QUALITY OF LIFE AND

REGIONALISM BECAUSE ONE OF THE

POINTS WAS ST. CHARLES COUNTY

CONTINUES TO GROW.

I THOUGHT THE PERSON IN

ST. CHARLES, O'FALLON HAD A NICE

THING TO SAY, SHE ACTUALLY WENT

OUT OF HER WAY TO SAY, WHOEVER

WAS QUOTED THAT, WE REALIZE

WE'RE TIED INTO THE ST. LOUIS

AREA.

I ALWAYS SAY THAT PEOPLE IN

ST. CHARLES ARE AS MUCH A PART

OF ST. LOUIS AS ST. LOUIS IS.

WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON REGIONALISM,

QUALITY OF LIFE, AND STOP

WRINGING OUR HANDS.

>> I THINK KIND OF A BIG DEAL.

A COUPLE THINGS, GOING TO THAT

QUOTE.

SHE STARTED OFF WITH WE'RE A

PLACE WHERE YOUR KIDS WITH PLAY

IN THE FRONT YARD AND THEY'RE

SAFE AND THE NEIGHBORS WATCH OUT

FOR THEM, LIKE ALL THE REST OF

THE REGION IS LIKE ALCATRAZ.

>> YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU'RE RIGHT,

THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

>> SO SHE THREW A LITTLE BISCUIT

OUR THAT I, THANK YOU.

BUT I DUSH OUR WAY, THANK YOU.

I NEED TO KNOW BASICALLY, WHO'S

MOVING OUT OF THE CITY?

IS IT ALL SOUTH SIDERS, IS IT

THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY?

WHERE ARE THEY GOING, WHAT IS

THE AGE?

ARE THE RING SUBURBS, THE OLDER

ONES, ARE THEY LOSING

POPULATION, WHICH I DON'T THINK

SO.

MAYBE WE NEED TO DESIGNATE

EXACTLY WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE

GOING AND WHERE THEY WERE LIVING

BEFOREHAND IN THE CITY OF

ST. LOUIS AND THROUGHOUT THE

REGION.

ONE THING, YOU MENTIONED

BALTIMORE, BUT HEY, FOR ALL OF

SOME OF THESE PLACES' PROBLEMS,

DETROIT, SOMEHOW OR THE OTHER

THEY'RE HANGING ON.

LIKE DETROIT IS STILL A TOP TEN

AND YOU MIGHT SAY THAT, HEY, YOU

KNOW THEY WERE BIGGER THAN US TO

BEGIN WITH, BUT THEIR LOSS IS

NOT AS BIG.

BUT DETROIT AND SOME PLACES LIKE

THAT MADE SOME BIG DECISIONS.

THEY SAID, LISTEN, WE'RE RAZING

SOME OF THIS STUFF, WE'RE

STARTING OVER AND I KNOW IT'S

PAINFUL, PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO

CONSIDER THAT, BUT ST. LOUIS

NEED TO BUST OUT OF THIS BOX.

>> DO YOU THINK IT'S A

COINCIDENCE THAT BALTIMORE HAD

HAD ITS SHARE OF RACIAL STRIFE

IN THE SAME WAY THAT ST. LOUIS

HAS.

THEY HAD FREDDIE GRAY, WE HAD

MICHAEL BROWN.

DO YOU THINK THERE'S A

CONNECTION THERE, THAT

COMMUNITIES ARE MAYBE FAILING

BECAUSE OPPORTUNITIES AREN'T

BEING PURSUED HERE WHEN IT COMES

TO COMPANIES, EVEN SMALLER

COMPANIES BECAUSE OF THAT -- I

MEAN, I HAVE NO IDEA IF THAT'S

PART OF IT.

>> WELL, THE BIGGEST GROWTH ALSO

THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES WAS

PLACES THAT WERE WELCOMING TO

IMMIGRANTS, BOTH DOMESTIC AND

FOREIGN, AND ARE WE THERE?

>> I THINK WE ACTUALLY ARE IN

THE CITY, BUT I THINK TO THE

POINT, THE GRASS IS GREENER ON

THE OTHER SIDE, OBVIOUSLY, BUT

BALTIMORE, I MEAN, IS VERY

COMPARABLE AND THE FACT THAT

BALTIMORE CITY LIMITS IS 600 AND

OURS IS 300 IS REALLY A FUNCTION

ONLY OF HOW WE FROZE OUR CITY

LIMITS IN THE 1870s BECAUSE MOST

CITIES REALLY DO INCLUDE THE

MAPLE WOODS AND U-CITIES AND

CLAYTONS, PART OF THEIR --

>> BUT THAT'S THE WHOLE REGION.

>> THE REGION IS NOT GROWING.

>> AND THAT'S PART OF THE --

>> I THINK OUR GEOGRAPHY --

>> BILL IS RIGHT, WE HAVE AN

OLDER POPULATION, GENERALLY N

ST. LOUIS, AND A LOT OF RETIREES

ARE MOVING TO FLORIDA OR TO

PLACES LIKE IDAHO, LELAND COUNTY

MICHIGAN HAD AN EXPLOSION,

PLACES IN -- JACKSON, WYOMING,

HAS AN EXPLOSION AND THEN 10,000

BABY BOOMERS ARE RETIRING EVERY

DAY, MANY OF THEM GO INTO

RETIREMENT COMMUNITIES, WE'RE

NOT A RETIREMENT COMMUNITY AND

WITH AN OLDER POPULATION BASE,

ST. LOUIS IS GOING TO LOSE A LOT

OF RETIREES.

>> THE ONLY GOOD SIDE, YOU KNOW,

THE OLDER PEOPLE, WE WANT

SUNSHINE.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO FLORIDA.

LELANDAU, MICHIGAN, IS A LITTLE

DIFFERENT, IT'S A RESORT PLACE,

BUT AT LEAST THE COST OF LIVING

HERE IS SO CHEAP, THAT'S A HUGE

INDUCEMENT.

LIKE YOU TALK ABOUT LACK OF

IMMIGRATION POPULATION.

WHEN THE WORD GETS OUT TO SOME

OF THESE IMMIGRANTS ABOUT HOW

CHEAPLY THEY CAN LIVE HERE WHEN

THEY'RE GOING TO CALIFORNIA AND

CHICAGO, YOU KNOW, IF WE

MARKETED THAT A LITTLE MORE --

>> RIGHT, AND THAT WAS THE POINT

YOU MADE IN YOUR COLUMN, THE

FACT THAT YOU CAN GET EVERYWHERE

IN 15 TO 20 MINUTES.

THERE ARE NEVER ANY LINES AT THE

GROCERY STORE, BUT CALIFORNIA IS

LOSING A HUGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE

AS WELL.

>> I JUST DON'T THINK -- I JUST

DON'T THINK POPULATION GROWTH IS

THAT IMPORTANT A STATISTIC.

WE'RE NOT -- WE'RE GOING TO HAVE

REALITIES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH

OUR GEOGRAPHY, OUR CLIMATE.

AS BILL ALWAYS POINTS OUT, THE

LACK OF MARIJUANA BEING

LEGALIZED HERE FOR THE BOOMERS,

OR WHATEVER, BUT THE POINT IS,

THERE'S A LOT OF DEMOGRAPHIC AND

GEOGRAPHIC EFFECT AND HOW YOU'RE

GROWING IS NOT A MEASURE OF

WHETHER YOU'RE A GOOD MACE TO

LIVE.

>> I THINK IT IS, RAY, BECAUSE

PEOPLE HAVE A DECISION WHERE

THEY'RE GOING TO MOVE TO.

ESPECIALLY LIKE 22-YEAR-OLDS

GETTING OUT OF COLLEGE AND

THEY'RE GOING TO PLACES LIKE

AUSTIN AND COLORADO.

>> THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE.

>> WHEN YOU DON'T GROW, YOU'VE

FEWER PEOPLE BUYING EVERYTHING

FROM PIZZAS TO SUBSCRIPTIONS TO

ST. LOUIS MAGAZINE AND LISTENING

TO THE RADIO.

>> AND HOUSES.

>> SO YOU CAN'T GROW BUSINESS IF

YOUR POPULATION IS STAGNANT.

>> AND GO TO KANSAS CITY.

IF PEOPLE ARE NOT AWARE OF WHAT

HAS HAPPENED WHEN WE WERE

GROWING UP AND LOOKING AT KANSAS

CITY LIKE IT WAS SOME SORT OF

COW TOWN, THEY'VE BEEN

INCREDIBLY BUSY OVER THE LAST

30, 40 YEARS DOING EVERYTHING

RIGHT APPARENTLY, STARTING WITH

DOWNTOWN.

>> WE HAD NO PROBLEM INSULTING

KANSAS CITY.

I AM SO GLAD I DO NOT GO TO

COLLEGE AT THE UNIVERSE OF

KANSAS NOW BECAUSE I'VE HAVE TO

SIT THERE WITH MY MOUTH SHUT AND

WE NEED TO SHAKE IT UP.

I MEAN, YOUNG PEOPLE DON'T CARE

ABOUT THE SNOW AND ANY OF THAT.

>> THEY WANT TO HAVE FUN.

>> THEY WANT TO LIVE SOME PLACE

THAT IS FUN AND WE ARE NOT FUN.

WE NEED TO SHAKE THIS THING UP.

>> I THINK WE HAVE FUN.

>> AS LONG AS WE'RE MAKING A

TO-DO LIST, THERE IS ANYTHING

THAT WE CAN DO ABOUT THE SHED AT

UNION STATION?

HAS ANYBODY ELSE NOTICED THAT?

>> MY DAUGHTER STILL USES THE

MODULAR, WHATEVER, THE TRAIN

STATION.

>> OVER THE TRAIN STATION, IT IS

RUSTED OUT.

IT LOOKS LIKE --

>> MOST OF UNION STATION IS

BEING REINVENTED.

>> I'M TALKING ABOUT THE TRAIN

STATION IN THE BACK.

>> THAT'S OUR BIGGEST CONCERN IN

THAT --

>> I THINK ALVIN IS ACTUALLY --

I THINK HE IS RIGHT ABOUT

BLOWING STUFF UP, CHANGING

THINGS.

I THINK DEALING WITH THE BRAIN

DRAIN OF THE YOUNG KIDS NOT

WANTING TO STAY, THERE'S A LOT

OF THINGS TO DO BETTER.

I'M NOT ARGUING, OH, EVERYTHING

IS SO WONDERFUL.

WHAT I'M SAYING IS FOCUSING ON

THAT STATISTIC AS OPPOSED TO

FOCUSING ON QUALITY OF LIFE,

REGIONALISM AND DOING THINGS TO

MAKE THINGS WORK BETTER HERE IS

MORE IMPORTANT THAN OBSESSING

ABOUT THE NUMBERS.

>> LET'S MOVE TO TO BILL

McCLELLAN.

I WANT TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE

YOU'VE SPENT QUITE A BIT IN

COURTS, I APPRECIATE THAT.

THIS WEEK, JUDGE REX BURLISON,

IN FACT YESTERDAY, DECIDED NOT

TO CHANGE THE TRIAL DATE FOR THE

GOVERNOR EVEN THOUGH THE

GOVERNOR'S LAWYERS ASKED FOR AN

APRIL 2nd TRIAL DATE.

JACK GARVEY, A FORMER JUDGE,

WENT IN FRONT OF REX BURLISON

AND SAID, LOOK, GREITENS HAS

JUST THREE WITNESSES AND I

TALKED TO THEIR CHIEF INSPECTOR,

THEIR ONLY INSPECTOR, WILLIAM

TISABY, AND HE SAYS THEY HAVE NO

PHOTOGRAPHS, NO EVIDENCE OF ANY

TRANSITION OF PHOTOGRAPHS, THEY

DON'T KNOW ANYBODY WHO HAS A

PHOTOGRAPH, AND JUST WITH THREE

WITNESSES AND NO EVIDENCE, LET'S

GET ON WITH THE TRIAL, BUT THE

JUDGE SAID, NO, WE'RE GOING TO

GO WITH MAY 14th.

AMONG OTHER REASONS, HE DIDN'T

WANT TO BE INFLUENCED BY WHAT

WAS GOING ON IN JEFF CITY AS THE

GOVERNOR'S LAWYERS ARGUED AND

ALSO THE ATTORNEY FOR THE WOMAN

INVOLVED CLAIMED SHE WAS A

FULL-TIME STUDENT, FULL-TIME

WORKER AND MOTHER, AND SHE HAD

REARRANGED HER SCHEDULE ALREADY

FOR A MAY 14th DATE.

OVERALL, DO YOU THINK JUSTICE

WAS SERVE BY KEEPING THE MAY

14th TRIAL DATE?

>> YES, I DO.

WE TALK ABOUT ST. LOUIS NOT

BEING FUN, HERE'S AN INCIDENT

WHERE IT IS FUN.

THE GOVERNOR IS COMING ON TRIAL,

CHARGED LIKE THIS.

NOT FUN FOR EVERYBODY, BUT JACK

GARVEY, A FORMER JUDGE ARGUING

FOR THE DEFENSE, BOB DIERKER, A

FORMER JUDGE, ARGUING FOR THE

PROSECUTION, IT'S A SHOW TRIAL

AND I THINK THE JUDGE SEEMS TO

BE MAKING, WHAT I CAN TELL, ALL

THE RIGHT CALLS.

WHEN THE PROSECUTION WANTED IT

TO BE SOMETIME SHORTLY BEFORE

THE ELECTION IN OCTOBER, THE

JUDGE SAID NO, THAT'S

RIDICULOUS.

AND WHEN THE GOVERNOR'S TEAM

WANTS IT MOVED UP TO TOMORROW,

THE JUDGE SAID, NO, WE'VE GOT A

TRIAL DATE, WE'RE GOING TO KEEP

IT.

IT SEEMS ON TRACK TO BE AN

INTERESTING TIME IN THE OLD

TOWN.

>> SO THE BIG QUESTION THEN, IS

IT GOING TO BE A JUDGE RATHER

THAN A JURY, BY THE BENCH, THE

JUDGE, OR THE JURY?

I THINK THAT'S A DECISION ON

MONDAY?

>> A JUDGE DECIDES THAT?

>> YEAH, THE JUDGE YESTERDAY

SAID ASSUME RIGHT NOW THAT THIS

IS GOING TO BE A JURY TRY, BUT

WE'LL DISCUSS -- JURY TRIAL, BUT

WE'LL DISCUSS IT MONDAY MORNING

AT 9:00 A.M. AND I'LL MAKE THAT

DECISION.

>> THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE

SAYING THE PEOPLE OF ST. LOUIS

HAVE A RIGHT, CORRECT, TO HEAR

THIS CASE.

>> I DON'T THINK HE SAID THAT --

TO PIPE DOWN ON THAT --

>> THERE'S NO RIGHT.

>> RIGHT, IT'S GOING TO BE

CALLED BY THE JUDGE.

I THINK IT'S INTERESTING,

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF HANDY

CAPPING OF THIS IN THE --

HANDICAPPING OF THIS IN THE

PAPER, A LOT OF PUBLICITY AND

THE PROSECUTOR HAS HAD A LOT OF

STORIES HAVE NOT LOOKED GREAT

COMING OUT OF THE GATE, BUT IF

THE PROSECUTOR WAS DOING AS

POORLY OVERALL AS SOME PEOPLE

THINK, THEY COULD HAVE EASILY

THROWN THIS CASE OUT.

THE JUDGE SEEMS TO BE HANDLING,

AS BILL SAYS, EVERYTHING

PROPERLY.

MAYBE IT WILL HELP NET MIGRATION

TO ST. LOUIS.

CERTAINLY THE MEDIA WILL COME IF

FOR A WHILE, GOOD FOR TOURISM.

>> BUT I WONDER IF THE NATIONAL

MEDIA WILL.

>> YEAH, THERE WILL BE SOME --

>> WE'VE HAD SOME TRIALS HERE IN

THE LAST YEAR THAT, YOU KNOW,

VERY, YOU KNOW, CONTROVERSIAL

AND ALL THAT.

I THINK ANY ONE OF US COVER GONE

ON FAE ANY DAY AROUND APPARENTLY

FOR THIS TRIAL, THEY'RE GOING TO

HAVE SEAT ASSIGNMENT AND THERE'S

NATIONAL PEOPLE.

THE GOVERNOR MIGHT COME OUT WITH

SOME RISQUE STUFF.

>> THERE'S FUN STUFF THAT PEOPLE

LIKE TO LISTEN TO.

ANYTIME YOU HAVE A STORY THAT

YOU CAN GET THE GOVERNOR, A HAIR

DRESSER AND A BLIND FIELD IN THE

SAME SENTENCE -- BLIND FOLD IN

THE SAME SENTENCE.

>> NET MIGRATION.

>> MAYBE THE X-FACTOR THAT WE

DON'T REFER TO MUCH, IS HOW

WILLING A WITNESS IS THE WOMAN

INVOLVED.

THE FACT THAT HER LAWYERS

WEIGHED IN ON KEEPING IT IN MAY

WAS INTERESTING.

I THINK A LOT OF THIS COULD COME

DOWN, ASSUMING THEY DON'T HAVE A

LOT OF PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE, A

LOT OF THIS COULD COME DOWN TO

WHAT KIND OF WITNESS SHE IS AND

HOW WILLING SHE IS.

>> WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW TSH

DECKALLY, WE DIDN'T KNOW --

TECHNICALLY, WE DIDN'T KNOW, BUT

NOW WE KNOW SHE'LL BE IN THE

COURTROOM.

>> WHAT WE HEAR ON THE TAPE,

THAT'S THREE YEARS OLD.

SHE'S HAD -- YOU KNOW WHAT I'M

SAYING?

SHE'S HAD A LOT OF TIME TO THINK

THINGS OVER, TO MAYBE CHANGE HER

ATTITUDES, WHO KNOWS.

>> ONCE YOU'RE DEPOSED, YOU

KNOW, LIKE HEY, THIS IS YOUR

STATEMENT, SO WHEN YOU GET IN

THE COURTROOM, IT'S KIND OF

LIKE, YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR MIND

NOW, THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID AND

THIS IS WHY WE'RE HEAR.

>> BUT WHAT SHE SAID ON THE

TAPE --

>> I'M TALKING ABOUT ONCE YOU'RE

DEPOSED AND ALL THAT.

>> TEARFULLY ADMITTING THAT SHE

WAS WILDLY ATTRACTED TO HIM AND

THEY WERE WILDLY ATTRACTED TO

EACH OTHER IN THOSE FIRST

MEETINGS, I'M THING THINGS HAVE

CHANGED.

>> WHAT THIS IS GOING TO COME

DOWN -- WELL, WE DON'T -- WHAT

IT WOULD COME DOWN TO IS WHETHER

HE, AS SHE SUGGESTED IN THE

TAPE, TOOK THE PHOTOGRAPH

WITHOUT HER PERMISSION AND

THREATENED HER AND IF SHE'S

WILLING TO TESTIFY TO THAT, THEN

IT COMES DOWN TO WHETHER SHE'S

BELIEVABLE AND I'M NOT MAKING

ANY PREDICTION OR IMPLICATION

THAT HE IS GUILTY, I HAVE NO

IDEA, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT

HER CREDIBILITY AND INTEREST AS

A WITNESS MAY BE A VERY

IMPORTANT PART OF THIS

PROCEEDING.

>> WELL, BEAR IN MIND, TOO, THAT

BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT --

>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

>> AND THE STATE'S ONLY WITNESS,

I MEAN, WHO WAS THERE.

>> EXACTLY.

>> ACCORDING TO WHAT SHE SAID ON

THE TAPE, SHE WAS BLIND FOLDED

AT THE TIME, SO THAT KIND OF

HANDICAPS A WITNESS.

>> CORRECT AND I'M NOT

SUGGESTING THAT HE'S GUILTY.

I'M JUST SAYING HER ROLE IS

GOING TO BE AN INTERESTING PART

OF IT.

>> WHAT I THOUGHT WAS

INTERESTING YESTERDAY IS WHEN

JACK GARVEY, ATTORNEY FOR THE

DEFENSE, HAD SAID, LOOK, YOUR

LEAD INVESTIGATOR SAYS NO

PHOTOGRAPH, NO EVIDENCE, NO ONE

LOOKING FOR THE PHOTOGRAPH, LA

BLAH BLAH BLAH, SO THE CIRCUIT

ATTORNEY KIM GARDNER GOT UP

THERE AND SAID WE HAVE EVIDENCE

YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT AND GARVEY

GOT UP THERE AND SAID THAT'S

PRETTY DISTURBING BECAUSE UNDER

THE RULES OF DISCOVERY, YOU HAVE

TO SHARE THAT.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS AN

INTERESTING MOMENT IN THE

COURTROOM WHICH IS INTERESTING

WHEN YOU HAVE A JUDGE SAYING

THAT TO A JUDGE AND -- SO WE'LL

SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

OKAY, LET'S MOVE ON TO WENDY.

AS IT TURNS OUT, SPEAKING OF

THIS CASE, THERE WAS A MOTION TO

DISQUALIFY RONALD S. SULLIVAN,

THE HARVARD PROFESSOR WHO IS

WORKING ON THIS CASE AND THE

DEFENSE SAID, YOU CAN'T HAVE

THIS RONALD S. SULLIVAN.

NUMBER ONE, HE'S NOT ADMITTED TO

THE MISSOURI BAR.

NUMBER TWO, HE'S WORKING ON

ANOTHER CRIMINAL CASE, I THINK

IN CONNECTICUT SIMULTANEOUSLY,

WHICH IS AGAINST MISSOURI LAW,

AND FURTHERMORE, IF THERE IS

GOING TO BE A SPECIAL

PROSECUTOR, HE OR SHE HAS TO BE

APPOINTED BY THE JUDGE AND THE

SALARY HAS TO BE DETERMINED BY

THE COURT AS WELL.

ACTUALLY, GREITENS' SEEM SAID

THAT THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY

COMMITTED A MISDEMEANOR CRIME BY

APPOINTING RONALD S. SULLIVAN.

ARE YOU BUYING THAT?

>> I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN

EASY -- I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

I THINK THE JF WOULD HAVE

ALREADY MOVED -- THE JUDGE WOULD

HAVE ALREADY MOVED ON THAT.

IF THE PROSECUTOR HAS COMMITTED

A MISDEMEANOR, THEN GET RID OF

HIM.

GET HIM OUT OF THE CIRCUIT

ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE WAITING

ON THAT.

THAT WOULD BE EASY TO PROVE,

RIGHT?

I MEAN --

>> NO, NO, THE QUESTION IS THE

CIRCUIT ATTORNEY HAS, AT LEAST

IS ARGUING THAT, THEY HAVE SOME

DISCRETION ABOUT HOW THEY GO

ABOUT DOING THIS, AND I DON'T

THINK IT'S CLEAR --

>> BUT HE'S AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.

HE IS CLEARLY NOT AN ELECTED

OFFICIAL.

>> THE ARGUMENT IS THAT THE

CIRCUIT ATTORNEY HAS THE RIGHT

TO BRING THIS PERSON IN.

>> THE LATITUDE.

>> THAT MIGHT BE AS SIMPLE AS,

HE'S A CONSULTANT, NOT PART OF

THE PROSECUTION.

>> BUT IF HE MOVES --

>> BUT HE IS --

>> THAT KIND OF MONEY.

>> HE'S FILING PLEADINGS ON HIS

NAME ON IT IN THE COURT

DOCUMENTS.

>> AND IF HE MOVES HERE, IT'S

NET MIGRATION.

WE NEED MORE PEOPLE.

>> OKAY.

RAY, WHAT ABOUT A STUDY THAT

CAME OUT INDICATING THAT NO LESS

THAN $29 MILLION IN TAXES HAVE

BEEN FORGIVEN TO LOCAL COMPANIES

THAT RECEIVE TIFs AND ABATEMENTS

IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS LAST

YEAR?

THAT'S UP FROM WHAT I THINK WAS,

WHAT, $17 MILLION?

SO IN OTHER WORDS, SCHOOLS,

PARKS, POLICE, THE ZOO, ARE NOT

GETTING UP TO $29 MILLION.

>> BUT THEY CALL IT A

CALCULATION ERROR?

>> A COMPUTATION ERROR.

>> A COMPUTATION ERROR?

TECHNICALLY, THERE'S A 50-50

CHANCE IN A COMPUTATION ERROR

THAT THEY HAVE -- IT JUST

HAPPENS IN THIS CASE THAT THEY

UNDERSTATED HOW MUCH MONEY THEY

WERE GIVING AWAY BY 70%.

FROM 17 TO 29 MILLION.

THAT IN ITSELF SHOULD BE A BIG

STORY.

IT'S LIKE, EXCUSE ME?

WE JUST MADE A LITTLE ERROR,

12 MILLION BUCKS.

I THINK IT'S -- RIGHT NOW, THE

ISSUE IS THE CITY LOBBYIST FOR

THE MAYOR'S OFFICE IS TESTIFYING

AGAINST TIF REFORM, WHICH I

THINK IS A REAL BAD LOOK FOR US

BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIFs --

THERE WAS A GREAT PIECE ON THE

WEBSITE ABOUT THIS.

THEY'RE SAYING WE NEED MORE

LOCAL CONTROL OF THIS.

WELL, LOCAL CONTROL DOES INCLUDE

THINGS WHICH ARE INCLUDED IN THE

TIFF REFORM LIKE SCHOOL

DISTRICTS HAVING A BETTER SAY IN

DEFENDING THEMSELVES AGAINST

TIFFs, SO I THINK THE CITY OUGHT

TO BACK OFF OF FIGHTING THIS.

>> GOOD FOR YOU.

>> TIFF REFORM IS NOT GOING TO

CHANGE THINGS OVERNIGHT.

>> I'M ALL FOR THINGS LIKE

SCHOOL DISTRICTS OPTING OUT, BUT

UNTIL THE CITY CHANGES HOW THEY

FEEL ABOUT TIFFs, I'M NOT GOING

TO BE MAD AT THEM HAVING A

LOBBYIST DOWN THERE, THEY'RE

DOING THEIR JOB.

IT NEEDS TO BE REFORMED.

WHEN YOU SAY WE DON'T HAVE ANY

MONEY, IT'S OUR FAULT BECAUSE

WE'RE GIVING IT ALL AWAY.

I SAY THAT TO SAY THIS.

ABOUT A DECADE AGO, MAYBE MORE,

WEST COUNTY MALL IN DES PERES

GOT A TIFF AND I WENT CRAZY, BUT

IT SAVED THE MALL AND THEY PAY

MORE TAXES.

SO IT DOES WORK, BUT --

>> WASN'T IT SORT OF FASCINATING

THAT THIS WEEK, THAT STORY

APPEARED AT THE SAME TIME THAT

ALDERMANIC PRESIDENT LEWIS REED

WAS PROPOSING A BANK.

I MEAN AN ACTUAL ST. LOUIS BANK

AND EXPERTS FROM AROUND THE

COUNTRY HAVE SAID THAT THAT IDEA

IS FRAUGHT WITH PERIL AND THEN

YOU HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS, A

$13 MILLION DISCREPANCY AND YOU

WONDER WHAT WOULD POSSIBLY GO

WRONG WITH A BANK.

>> WE COULD ASK THE MAYOR, BUT I

DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE'S AT.

>> WELL, SHE WAS IN THE

ST. PATRICK'S DAY PARADE.

>> OKAY, WE GOT OUR PRIORITIES

TOGETHER, DON'T WE.

>> IT DEPENDS.

THE ROOSEVELT INSTITUTE -- I

HADN'T HEARD ABOUT THIS CONCEPT.

I THINK ROOSEVELT INSTITUTE,

SOME OTHERS HAVE STUDIED THIS

NATIONALLY AND IT'S NOT

SOMETHING WE SHOULD REJECT OUT

OF HAND, I DON'T THINK.

LOOK, DO I THINK ST. LOUIS IS

GOING TO HAVE A MUNICIPAL BANK

AS AN ALTERNATIVE?

NO, BUT THERE'S SOME ARGUMENTS

THAT SAY THAT WHEN CITIES USE

ALL THE BONDING THEY DO, WHICH

REALLY BENEFITS WEALTHY FOLKS

WHO BUY THE BONDS, THAT THERE'S

AT LEAST SOME STUDY THAT IS NOT

UNREASONABLE TO LOOK AT THE

POSSIBILITY OF ALTERNATIVES TO

THE STRUCTURE WE HAVE NOW.

I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT,

BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD SAY

COMPLETELY NO WAY NO HOW.

>> AT LEAST IT'S OUT OF THE BOX

THINKING, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND,

IT'S LIKE A JOKE, WHAT COULD GO

WRONG?

AN ALDERMAN WITH AN ABANDONING.

>> YOU AND I TRYING -- WITH A

BANK.

>> YOU AND I TRYING TO OPEN A

STORE, CONSULTING FIRM, OH, COME

ON, BUT MEANWHILE, SOME OF THE

PLAYAS, THE POWERS THAT BE, THE

PEOPLE WHO HELPED THE MAYOR GET

ELECTED, THEY CAN ALONG LIKE

SATURN 5.

>> WELL, INNOT LIKE THEY MAKE

OUT LIKE BANDITS NOW.

>> WE ALREADY HAVE QUITE A FEW

BANKS.

>> I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD RULE

IT OUT WOULD GO KNOWING MORE.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT VANS

OUT OF LAWRENCE, KANSAS, WERE

ROBBED WHEN THE STUDENTS WHO

TRAVELED HERE ON A FIELD TRIP

WERE INSIDE THE CITY MUSEUM.

SO WHEN THE STUDENTS FROM

LAWRENCE VENS BACK TO THEIR VANS

IN DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS, THEIR

STUFF WAS STOLEN.

IS THERE ANY SOLUTION TO CARS

AND VANS OF STUDENTS AND

TOURISTS AND ROCK BANDS BEING

BROKEN INTO?

>> I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED ROCK

BANDS, THERE'S A WATCH OUT

THERE, WHEN YOU GO TO ST. LOUIS,

LUG ALL YOUR EQUIPMENT TO YOUR

HOTEL ROOMS EVERY NIGHT, NO

MATTER HOW LONG YOU'RE THERE, DO

NOT LEAVE IT IN YOUR CAR, IT

WILL GET ROBBED.

ANYTHING THIS CLOSE PROXIMITY TO

THE MUSEUMS, FOREST PARK,

ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THE STREETS

NEED TO BE PA TROLETZ, THIS IS

EMBARRASSING.

THIS IS WHY PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO

MOVE HERE.

I UNDERSTAND, CRIME RATE,

MURDER, OUT OF CONTROL AND THAT

NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED, BUT THESE

LITTLE PETTILY CRIMES, IT JUST

ME -- PETTY CRIMES, IT JUST

NEEDS TO STOP.

>> I WOULD HAVE THE CHIEF OF

POLICE GO TO THE PARKING LOTS

AROUND THE CITY MUSEUM BECAUSE

THIS IS A FRONT PAGE STORY ON A

SUNDAY A YEAR AGO ABOUT ALL

THESE PLACES AND THE PEOPLE

THINK THEY'RE SAFE BECAUSE

THEY'RE GOING TO A PARKING LOT

AND THERE'S NO SECURITY THERE

AND THE CAR GETS BROKEN TO.

I'D HAVE THE CHIEF GO TO THE LOT

AND SAY I NEED SOME HELP.

I NEED YOU TO HAVE A SECURITY

GUARD OUT HERE ALL THE TIME AND

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HIRE A $12

AN HOUR GUARD, YOU BETTER GET A

GOOD ACCOUNTANT BECAUSE THIS IS

A CASH BUSINESS AND WE'RE GOING

TO SUBPOENA YOUR RECORDS AND

TAKE A LOOK AT THEM.

I'M GOING TO SET AN EXAMPLE OF

SOMEBODY WHO WON'T COOPERATE

WITH ME AND HAVE THOSE LOTS --

JUST HAVE A GUY STANDING OUT ON

THE LOTS TO PREVENT THIS.

THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

>> HOW ABOUT LIGHTING?

THIS COULD HAVE BEEN IN BROAD

DAYLIGHT, BUT STILL --

>> IT WAS.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT, SURE.

>> BROAD DAYLIGHT.

>> BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE ADEQUATE

LIGHTING ON SOME OF THESE

PARKING LOTS THAT DON'T HAVE

GUARDS.

IF YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A GUARD,

SHOULDN'T YOU HAVE IT WELL

LIGHTED?

>> AS THE ONE WHO DOESN'T THINK

THAT POPULATION NUMBERS ARE THAT

HUGE A DEAL, THIS IS.

THIS -- STORIES LIKE THIS ARE

DEVASTATING, AND WHATEVER ARE

THE TOTAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO

LIVE IN THE REGION, WHICH IS

PRETTY MUCH OUT OF OUR CONTROL,

REALLY, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE

ONES WHO LIVE HERE HAVE A GOOD

QUALITY OF LIFE AND PARTICULARLY

TOURISM IS STILL A VERY

IMPORTANT INDUSTRY TO OUR

ECONOMY, AND THIS IS NOT BAD,

IT'S DEVASTATING.

WHEN YOU HAVE STORIES LIKE THIS

THAT PEOPLE CAN RELATE TO,

SOMETIMES A MICRO STORY LIKE

THIS INVOLVING THESE KIDS HAS

MORE OF AN IMPACT ON FOLKS'

APPROACH TO ST. LOUIS THAN THE

MURDER STORIES.

>> BUT THESE ARE TOURISTS AND

PEOPLE COMING FROM OUT OF TOWN

TO GO THERE AND THINKING THEY'RE

SAFE AND ALL THE TIME --

>> IT'S A TERRIBLE THING NRIE

THINK WE NEED TO THROW OURSELVES

AT THE MERCY OF DeWITTS BECAUSE

THEY CERTAINLY HAVE -- THEY HAVE

A LOT OF CLOUT AND THEY COULD

PROBABLY GET THINGS DONE.

>> ALVIN, I WANT TO ASK YOU

ABOUT CRIME AND JUSTICE AND THIS

IS -- I THINK HIS NAME IS

ANTHONY PIERCY.

HE WAS THE MISSOURI PATROL

OFFICER WHO WAS EVENTUALLY

CONVICTED, I THINK, OF OPERATING

A BOAT IMPROPERLY WHEN HE WAS

TRANSPORTING A PRISONER WHO FELL

OVERBOARD AND DROWNED.

HE COULD HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH

INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER.

ANYWAY, HE GOT ABOUT 50 HOURS OF

COMMUNITY SERVICE AFTER THIS

MISSOURI TROOPER ACTED

IMPROPERLY, AND AS IT TURNS OUT,

HE IS SPENDING HIS COMMUNITY

SERVICE WORKING IN THE THEATER,

COMMUNITY THEATER IN VERSAILLES,

MISSOURI.

DO YOU THINK THAT'S PROPER

COMMUNITY SERVICE FOR ANYBODY TO

BE WORKING IN THE THEATER?

>> OKAY, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK

HE SHOULD HAVE GONE TO JAIL FOR

A LITTLE BIT OF TIME MYSELF.

I HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE

SENTENCE.

BUT COMMUNITY SERVICE IS

COMMUNITY SERVICE.

AND VOLUNTEERISM, WHICH IS WHAT

MANY PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THEIR

COMMUNITIES, IT IS WHAT IT IS.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH HIS

COMMUNITY SERVICE WORKING IN THE

THEATER.

NOW, I LIKE THEATER.

I WAS INVOLVED IN IT, BUT I'M

NOT -- THAT'S NOT OUT OF LINE TO

ME.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, DO THEY --

THEY DON'T SAY WHEN YOU HAVE

COMMUNITY SERVICE THAT YOU HAVE

TO, LIKE, YOU KNOW, PICK UP

TRASH IN THE RAIN OR THE SNOW.

IT'S KIND OF -- YOU KNOW, YOU

GOT TO DO COMMUNITY SERVICE AND

HE'S DOING HIS COMMUNITY

SERVICE.

I'M NOT MAD AT HIM.

>> ANYBODY ELSE?

>> THIS GUY NEEDS TO LEAVE AND

JUST INTO AWAY.

IT WAS SUCH AN AWFUL INJUSTICE.

NOW, THE FOLKS IN IOWA WHO ARE

JUST SO -- CONTINUE MADABLY TO

BE APPALLED AT -- UNDERSTANDABLY

TO BE APPALL AT WHAT HAPPENED TO

THEIR SON, THEY GOT LIKE A

NINE MILLION SETTLEMENT, BUT THE

FACT THAT THIS GUY GOT A LITTLE

SHOCK TIME AND HE DID PLEAD TO

INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER OR

SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IT'S SUCH A

OUS RAGE GUSLY AWFUL SENTENCE

THAT THIS MAKES IT WORSE.

>> WHEN YOU'RE IN A BOAT, YOU

GOT TO HOLD ON AND TO PUT A KID

IN HANDCUFFS AND BE RACING ALONG

AT ALMOST 50 MILES PER HOUR,

PROBABLY TRYING TO GET HIM IN SO

CO, YOU KNOW, GET HIM BLOOD

TESTED BEFORE HE SOBERED UP.

>> AND HE WAS HIRED AGAIN --

>> BUT THE FACT THAT HE WAS

SUING THE HIGHWAY PATROL TO GET

HIS JOB BACK, THAT'S WHAT I

THINK IS HORRIBLE.

>> LET'S SEE WHAT FOLKS HAD TO

SAY ABOUT LAST WEEK'S PROGRAM BY

VISITING THE OLD MAIL BAG.

REGARDING THE 3:00 A.M. ARREST

OF MIZZOU BASKETBALL PLAYER, AT

FORMER FOOTBALL COACH GARY

PINKLE USED TO SAY, THINGS THAT

HAPPEN AFTER MIDNIGHT ARE RARELY

GOOD.

THAT FROM JOHN OF ILLINOIS.

WE HEARD FROM RAY DUKE OF STL

WHO WROTE, IT'S INTERESTING TO

SEE WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GREAT

CITY OF ST. LOUIS OVER THE PAST

70 YEARS.

POPULATION FROM 800,000 TO

300,000.

ALL OF THAT UNDER CONTINUED

DEMOCRATIC CONTROL.

YOU CAN WRITE US CARE OF KETC,

3655 OLIVE STREET, ST. LOUIS,

MISSOURI 63108.

DON'T FORGET THOSE EMAILS,

LETTERS@KETC.ORG OR THOSE

TWEETS, #DONNYBROOKSTL BECAUSE

ALVIN AND WENDY ARE GOING TO BE

READING THOSE ON YOUR TURN IN A

MATTER OF MOMENTS.

THE REST OF US WILL SEE YOU NEXT

WEEK AT THIS TIME.

THANKS FOR JOINING US, BUT DON'T

GO AWAY.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE

POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS

SUPPORT OF THE MEMBERS OF KETC.