>>> THAT SEEMS FAIR TO ME.
>> FAIRNESS ISN'T THE ISSUE.
>> I DON'T REALLY THINK --
>> WRONG!
>> WELL, IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT
FAIR IS, YOU CAN'T MAKE IT --
[ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ]
[ BOING ]
[ SOUNDS OF GLASS BREAKING ]
>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE
POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS
SUPPORT OF THE MEMBERS OF KETC.
HEY, THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR
ANOTHER EDITION OF DONNYBROOK,
THE FIRST FOR THE SPRING, SUCH
AS IT IS, AND WE THANK THE FOLKS
AT THE GATESWORTH FOR MAKING
THIS PROGRAM POSSIBLE AS YOU'VE
BEEN DOING SO LONG.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
LET'S MEET OUR PANELISTS.
SHE'S THE MEDIA VETERAN HERSELF,
WENDY WIESE.
ALONG WITH MR. BILL McCLELLAN
FROM THE ST. LOUIS
POST-DISPATCH.
FROM ST. LOUIS MAGAZINE, RAY
HARTMANN.
AND FROM STLMAG.COM AND THE
ST. LOUIS AMERICAN, WE SAY HELLO
TO ALVIN REID.
BUT WE KICK THINGS OFF WITH YOU,
MR. ST. LOUIS MAGAZINE, RAY
HARTMANN.
NOW, IT'S YOUR MAGAZINE,
ST. LOUIS.
IS YOUR MAGAZINE GETTING
SMALLER?
BECAUSE THE POPULATION OF THE
CITY OF ST. LOUIS CITY IS ALMOST
300,000 AFTER BEING 850,000 IN
THE EARLY 1950s.
MAYBE MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE
REGION IS REALLY NOT GROWING
THAT MUCH, JUST ADDED ABOUT 500
PEOPLE IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS.
THE COUNTY LOST SOME POPULATION,
AND WE ARE NOT REALLY KEEPING UP
WITH OTHER MIDWESTERN CITIES ARE
A THE NATION AS A WHOLE IN TERMS
OF GROWING POPULATION.
YOU THINK THIS IS A BIG ISSUE.
>> NOT REALLY.
IT'S NOT NEWS.
I MEAN, IT'S PRETTY MUCH OUR
REALITY.
WE KNOW WE'RE SORT OF IN A
STAGNANT POPULATION DEAL.
THE BIG NEWS AS WE PRESENTEDED
IT IS WE WERE PASSED BY
BALTIMORE AS A METROPOLITAN
AREA.
I WENT TO THE BALTIMORE SUN
WEBSITE TO SEE HOW MUCH THEY'RE
CELEBRATING AND THEIR STORY IS
BALTIMORE POPULATION CONTINUES
STEEP DECLINE AND IT'S THE SAME
STORY IN ST. LOUIS.
THE CITY POPULATION, WHICH
ADMITTED MORE IS LIKE 610
INSTEAD 3600, BUT THEY HAVE THE
SAME -- 300, BUT THEY HAVE THE
SAME THING, DOWN 9,000.
THEY DIDN'T EVEN MENTION PASSING
US AS A METROPOLITAN AREA.
AT THIS POINT, I'M NOT AN
APOLOGIST FOR IT.
OUR REALITY IS WE HAVE TO FOCUS
ON QUALITY OF LIFE AND
REGIONALISM BECAUSE ONE OF THE
POINTS WAS ST. CHARLES COUNTY
CONTINUES TO GROW.
I THOUGHT THE PERSON IN
ST. CHARLES, O'FALLON HAD A NICE
THING TO SAY, SHE ACTUALLY WENT
OUT OF HER WAY TO SAY, WHOEVER
WAS QUOTED THAT, WE REALIZE
WE'RE TIED INTO THE ST. LOUIS
AREA.
I ALWAYS SAY THAT PEOPLE IN
ST. CHARLES ARE AS MUCH A PART
OF ST. LOUIS AS ST. LOUIS IS.
WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON REGIONALISM,
QUALITY OF LIFE, AND STOP
WRINGING OUR HANDS.
>> I THINK KIND OF A BIG DEAL.
A COUPLE THINGS, GOING TO THAT
QUOTE.
SHE STARTED OFF WITH WE'RE A
PLACE WHERE YOUR KIDS WITH PLAY
IN THE FRONT YARD AND THEY'RE
SAFE AND THE NEIGHBORS WATCH OUT
FOR THEM, LIKE ALL THE REST OF
THE REGION IS LIKE ALCATRAZ.
>> YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU'RE RIGHT,
THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
>> SO SHE THREW A LITTLE BISCUIT
OUR THAT I, THANK YOU.
BUT I DUSH OUR WAY, THANK YOU.
I NEED TO KNOW BASICALLY, WHO'S
MOVING OUT OF THE CITY?
IS IT ALL SOUTH SIDERS, IS IT
THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY?
WHERE ARE THEY GOING, WHAT IS
THE AGE?
ARE THE RING SUBURBS, THE OLDER
ONES, ARE THEY LOSING
POPULATION, WHICH I DON'T THINK
SO.
MAYBE WE NEED TO DESIGNATE
EXACTLY WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE
GOING AND WHERE THEY WERE LIVING
BEFOREHAND IN THE CITY OF
ST. LOUIS AND THROUGHOUT THE
REGION.
ONE THING, YOU MENTIONED
BALTIMORE, BUT HEY, FOR ALL OF
SOME OF THESE PLACES' PROBLEMS,
DETROIT, SOMEHOW OR THE OTHER
THEY'RE HANGING ON.
LIKE DETROIT IS STILL A TOP TEN
AND YOU MIGHT SAY THAT, HEY, YOU
KNOW THEY WERE BIGGER THAN US TO
BEGIN WITH, BUT THEIR LOSS IS
NOT AS BIG.
BUT DETROIT AND SOME PLACES LIKE
THAT MADE SOME BIG DECISIONS.
THEY SAID, LISTEN, WE'RE RAZING
SOME OF THIS STUFF, WE'RE
STARTING OVER AND I KNOW IT'S
PAINFUL, PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO
CONSIDER THAT, BUT ST. LOUIS
NEED TO BUST OUT OF THIS BOX.
>> DO YOU THINK IT'S A
COINCIDENCE THAT BALTIMORE HAD
HAD ITS SHARE OF RACIAL STRIFE
IN THE SAME WAY THAT ST. LOUIS
HAS.
THEY HAD FREDDIE GRAY, WE HAD
MICHAEL BROWN.
DO YOU THINK THERE'S A
CONNECTION THERE, THAT
COMMUNITIES ARE MAYBE FAILING
BECAUSE OPPORTUNITIES AREN'T
BEING PURSUED HERE WHEN IT COMES
TO COMPANIES, EVEN SMALLER
COMPANIES BECAUSE OF THAT -- I
MEAN, I HAVE NO IDEA IF THAT'S
PART OF IT.
>> WELL, THE BIGGEST GROWTH ALSO
THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES WAS
PLACES THAT WERE WELCOMING TO
IMMIGRANTS, BOTH DOMESTIC AND
FOREIGN, AND ARE WE THERE?
>> I THINK WE ACTUALLY ARE IN
THE CITY, BUT I THINK TO THE
POINT, THE GRASS IS GREENER ON
THE OTHER SIDE, OBVIOUSLY, BUT
BALTIMORE, I MEAN, IS VERY
COMPARABLE AND THE FACT THAT
BALTIMORE CITY LIMITS IS 600 AND
OURS IS 300 IS REALLY A FUNCTION
ONLY OF HOW WE FROZE OUR CITY
LIMITS IN THE 1870s BECAUSE MOST
CITIES REALLY DO INCLUDE THE
MAPLE WOODS AND U-CITIES AND
CLAYTONS, PART OF THEIR --
>> BUT THAT'S THE WHOLE REGION.
>> THE REGION IS NOT GROWING.
>> AND THAT'S PART OF THE --
>> I THINK OUR GEOGRAPHY --
>> BILL IS RIGHT, WE HAVE AN
OLDER POPULATION, GENERALLY N
ST. LOUIS, AND A LOT OF RETIREES
ARE MOVING TO FLORIDA OR TO
PLACES LIKE IDAHO, LELAND COUNTY
MICHIGAN HAD AN EXPLOSION,
PLACES IN -- JACKSON, WYOMING,
HAS AN EXPLOSION AND THEN 10,000
BABY BOOMERS ARE RETIRING EVERY
DAY, MANY OF THEM GO INTO
RETIREMENT COMMUNITIES, WE'RE
NOT A RETIREMENT COMMUNITY AND
WITH AN OLDER POPULATION BASE,
ST. LOUIS IS GOING TO LOSE A LOT
OF RETIREES.
>> THE ONLY GOOD SIDE, YOU KNOW,
THE OLDER PEOPLE, WE WANT
SUNSHINE.
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO FLORIDA.
LELANDAU, MICHIGAN, IS A LITTLE
DIFFERENT, IT'S A RESORT PLACE,
BUT AT LEAST THE COST OF LIVING
HERE IS SO CHEAP, THAT'S A HUGE
INDUCEMENT.
LIKE YOU TALK ABOUT LACK OF
IMMIGRATION POPULATION.
WHEN THE WORD GETS OUT TO SOME
OF THESE IMMIGRANTS ABOUT HOW
CHEAPLY THEY CAN LIVE HERE WHEN
THEY'RE GOING TO CALIFORNIA AND
CHICAGO, YOU KNOW, IF WE
MARKETED THAT A LITTLE MORE --
>> RIGHT, AND THAT WAS THE POINT
YOU MADE IN YOUR COLUMN, THE
FACT THAT YOU CAN GET EVERYWHERE
IN 15 TO 20 MINUTES.
THERE ARE NEVER ANY LINES AT THE
GROCERY STORE, BUT CALIFORNIA IS
LOSING A HUGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE
AS WELL.
>> I JUST DON'T THINK -- I JUST
DON'T THINK POPULATION GROWTH IS
THAT IMPORTANT A STATISTIC.
WE'RE NOT -- WE'RE GOING TO HAVE
REALITIES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH
OUR GEOGRAPHY, OUR CLIMATE.
AS BILL ALWAYS POINTS OUT, THE
LACK OF MARIJUANA BEING
LEGALIZED HERE FOR THE BOOMERS,
OR WHATEVER, BUT THE POINT IS,
THERE'S A LOT OF DEMOGRAPHIC AND
GEOGRAPHIC EFFECT AND HOW YOU'RE
GROWING IS NOT A MEASURE OF
WHETHER YOU'RE A GOOD MACE TO
LIVE.
>> I THINK IT IS, RAY, BECAUSE
PEOPLE HAVE A DECISION WHERE
THEY'RE GOING TO MOVE TO.
ESPECIALLY LIKE 22-YEAR-OLDS
GETTING OUT OF COLLEGE AND
THEY'RE GOING TO PLACES LIKE
AUSTIN AND COLORADO.
>> THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE.
>> WHEN YOU DON'T GROW, YOU'VE
FEWER PEOPLE BUYING EVERYTHING
FROM PIZZAS TO SUBSCRIPTIONS TO
ST. LOUIS MAGAZINE AND LISTENING
TO THE RADIO.
>> AND HOUSES.
>> SO YOU CAN'T GROW BUSINESS IF
YOUR POPULATION IS STAGNANT.
>> AND GO TO KANSAS CITY.
IF PEOPLE ARE NOT AWARE OF WHAT
HAS HAPPENED WHEN WE WERE
GROWING UP AND LOOKING AT KANSAS
CITY LIKE IT WAS SOME SORT OF
COW TOWN, THEY'VE BEEN
INCREDIBLY BUSY OVER THE LAST
30, 40 YEARS DOING EVERYTHING
RIGHT APPARENTLY, STARTING WITH
DOWNTOWN.
>> WE HAD NO PROBLEM INSULTING
KANSAS CITY.
I AM SO GLAD I DO NOT GO TO
COLLEGE AT THE UNIVERSE OF
KANSAS NOW BECAUSE I'VE HAVE TO
SIT THERE WITH MY MOUTH SHUT AND
WE NEED TO SHAKE IT UP.
I MEAN, YOUNG PEOPLE DON'T CARE
ABOUT THE SNOW AND ANY OF THAT.
>> THEY WANT TO HAVE FUN.
>> THEY WANT TO LIVE SOME PLACE
THAT IS FUN AND WE ARE NOT FUN.
WE NEED TO SHAKE THIS THING UP.
>> I THINK WE HAVE FUN.
>> AS LONG AS WE'RE MAKING A
TO-DO LIST, THERE IS ANYTHING
THAT WE CAN DO ABOUT THE SHED AT
UNION STATION?
HAS ANYBODY ELSE NOTICED THAT?
>> MY DAUGHTER STILL USES THE
MODULAR, WHATEVER, THE TRAIN
STATION.
>> OVER THE TRAIN STATION, IT IS
RUSTED OUT.
IT LOOKS LIKE --
>> MOST OF UNION STATION IS
BEING REINVENTED.
>> I'M TALKING ABOUT THE TRAIN
STATION IN THE BACK.
>> THAT'S OUR BIGGEST CONCERN IN
THAT --
>> I THINK ALVIN IS ACTUALLY --
I THINK HE IS RIGHT ABOUT
BLOWING STUFF UP, CHANGING
THINGS.
I THINK DEALING WITH THE BRAIN
DRAIN OF THE YOUNG KIDS NOT
WANTING TO STAY, THERE'S A LOT
OF THINGS TO DO BETTER.
I'M NOT ARGUING, OH, EVERYTHING
IS SO WONDERFUL.
WHAT I'M SAYING IS FOCUSING ON
THAT STATISTIC AS OPPOSED TO
FOCUSING ON QUALITY OF LIFE,
REGIONALISM AND DOING THINGS TO
MAKE THINGS WORK BETTER HERE IS
MORE IMPORTANT THAN OBSESSING
ABOUT THE NUMBERS.
>> LET'S MOVE TO TO BILL
McCLELLAN.
I WANT TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE
YOU'VE SPENT QUITE A BIT IN
COURTS, I APPRECIATE THAT.
THIS WEEK, JUDGE REX BURLISON,
IN FACT YESTERDAY, DECIDED NOT
TO CHANGE THE TRIAL DATE FOR THE
GOVERNOR EVEN THOUGH THE
GOVERNOR'S LAWYERS ASKED FOR AN
APRIL 2nd TRIAL DATE.
JACK GARVEY, A FORMER JUDGE,
WENT IN FRONT OF REX BURLISON
AND SAID, LOOK, GREITENS HAS
JUST THREE WITNESSES AND I
TALKED TO THEIR CHIEF INSPECTOR,
THEIR ONLY INSPECTOR, WILLIAM
TISABY, AND HE SAYS THEY HAVE NO
PHOTOGRAPHS, NO EVIDENCE OF ANY
TRANSITION OF PHOTOGRAPHS, THEY
DON'T KNOW ANYBODY WHO HAS A
PHOTOGRAPH, AND JUST WITH THREE
WITNESSES AND NO EVIDENCE, LET'S
GET ON WITH THE TRIAL, BUT THE
JUDGE SAID, NO, WE'RE GOING TO
GO WITH MAY 14th.
AMONG OTHER REASONS, HE DIDN'T
WANT TO BE INFLUENCED BY WHAT
WAS GOING ON IN JEFF CITY AS THE
GOVERNOR'S LAWYERS ARGUED AND
ALSO THE ATTORNEY FOR THE WOMAN
INVOLVED CLAIMED SHE WAS A
FULL-TIME STUDENT, FULL-TIME
WORKER AND MOTHER, AND SHE HAD
REARRANGED HER SCHEDULE ALREADY
FOR A MAY 14th DATE.
OVERALL, DO YOU THINK JUSTICE
WAS SERVE BY KEEPING THE MAY
14th TRIAL DATE?
>> YES, I DO.
WE TALK ABOUT ST. LOUIS NOT
BEING FUN, HERE'S AN INCIDENT
WHERE IT IS FUN.
THE GOVERNOR IS COMING ON TRIAL,
CHARGED LIKE THIS.
NOT FUN FOR EVERYBODY, BUT JACK
GARVEY, A FORMER JUDGE ARGUING
FOR THE DEFENSE, BOB DIERKER, A
FORMER JUDGE, ARGUING FOR THE
PROSECUTION, IT'S A SHOW TRIAL
AND I THINK THE JUDGE SEEMS TO
BE MAKING, WHAT I CAN TELL, ALL
THE RIGHT CALLS.
WHEN THE PROSECUTION WANTED IT
TO BE SOMETIME SHORTLY BEFORE
THE ELECTION IN OCTOBER, THE
JUDGE SAID NO, THAT'S
RIDICULOUS.
AND WHEN THE GOVERNOR'S TEAM
WANTS IT MOVED UP TO TOMORROW,
THE JUDGE SAID, NO, WE'VE GOT A
TRIAL DATE, WE'RE GOING TO KEEP
IT.
IT SEEMS ON TRACK TO BE AN
INTERESTING TIME IN THE OLD
TOWN.
>> SO THE BIG QUESTION THEN, IS
IT GOING TO BE A JUDGE RATHER
THAN A JURY, BY THE BENCH, THE
JUDGE, OR THE JURY?
I THINK THAT'S A DECISION ON
MONDAY?
>> A JUDGE DECIDES THAT?
>> YEAH, THE JUDGE YESTERDAY
SAID ASSUME RIGHT NOW THAT THIS
IS GOING TO BE A JURY TRY, BUT
WE'LL DISCUSS -- JURY TRIAL, BUT
WE'LL DISCUSS IT MONDAY MORNING
AT 9:00 A.M. AND I'LL MAKE THAT
DECISION.
>> THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
SAYING THE PEOPLE OF ST. LOUIS
HAVE A RIGHT, CORRECT, TO HEAR
THIS CASE.
>> I DON'T THINK HE SAID THAT --
TO PIPE DOWN ON THAT --
>> THERE'S NO RIGHT.
>> RIGHT, IT'S GOING TO BE
CALLED BY THE JUDGE.
I THINK IT'S INTERESTING,
THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF HANDY
CAPPING OF THIS IN THE --
HANDICAPPING OF THIS IN THE
PAPER, A LOT OF PUBLICITY AND
THE PROSECUTOR HAS HAD A LOT OF
STORIES HAVE NOT LOOKED GREAT
COMING OUT OF THE GATE, BUT IF
THE PROSECUTOR WAS DOING AS
POORLY OVERALL AS SOME PEOPLE
THINK, THEY COULD HAVE EASILY
THROWN THIS CASE OUT.
THE JUDGE SEEMS TO BE HANDLING,
AS BILL SAYS, EVERYTHING
PROPERLY.
MAYBE IT WILL HELP NET MIGRATION
TO ST. LOUIS.
CERTAINLY THE MEDIA WILL COME IF
FOR A WHILE, GOOD FOR TOURISM.
>> BUT I WONDER IF THE NATIONAL
MEDIA WILL.
>> YEAH, THERE WILL BE SOME --
>> WE'VE HAD SOME TRIALS HERE IN
THE LAST YEAR THAT, YOU KNOW,
VERY, YOU KNOW, CONTROVERSIAL
AND ALL THAT.
I THINK ANY ONE OF US COVER GONE
ON FAE ANY DAY AROUND APPARENTLY
FOR THIS TRIAL, THEY'RE GOING TO
HAVE SEAT ASSIGNMENT AND THERE'S
NATIONAL PEOPLE.
THE GOVERNOR MIGHT COME OUT WITH
SOME RISQUE STUFF.
>> THERE'S FUN STUFF THAT PEOPLE
LIKE TO LISTEN TO.
ANYTIME YOU HAVE A STORY THAT
YOU CAN GET THE GOVERNOR, A HAIR
DRESSER AND A BLIND FIELD IN THE
SAME SENTENCE -- BLIND FOLD IN
THE SAME SENTENCE.
>> NET MIGRATION.
>> MAYBE THE X-FACTOR THAT WE
DON'T REFER TO MUCH, IS HOW
WILLING A WITNESS IS THE WOMAN
INVOLVED.
THE FACT THAT HER LAWYERS
WEIGHED IN ON KEEPING IT IN MAY
WAS INTERESTING.
I THINK A LOT OF THIS COULD COME
DOWN, ASSUMING THEY DON'T HAVE A
LOT OF PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE, A
LOT OF THIS COULD COME DOWN TO
WHAT KIND OF WITNESS SHE IS AND
HOW WILLING SHE IS.
>> WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW TSH
DECKALLY, WE DIDN'T KNOW --
TECHNICALLY, WE DIDN'T KNOW, BUT
NOW WE KNOW SHE'LL BE IN THE
COURTROOM.
>> WHAT WE HEAR ON THE TAPE,
THAT'S THREE YEARS OLD.
SHE'S HAD -- YOU KNOW WHAT I'M
SAYING?
SHE'S HAD A LOT OF TIME TO THINK
THINGS OVER, TO MAYBE CHANGE HER
ATTITUDES, WHO KNOWS.
>> ONCE YOU'RE DEPOSED, YOU
KNOW, LIKE HEY, THIS IS YOUR
STATEMENT, SO WHEN YOU GET IN
THE COURTROOM, IT'S KIND OF
LIKE, YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR MIND
NOW, THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID AND
THIS IS WHY WE'RE HEAR.
>> BUT WHAT SHE SAID ON THE
TAPE --
>> I'M TALKING ABOUT ONCE YOU'RE
DEPOSED AND ALL THAT.
>> TEARFULLY ADMITTING THAT SHE
WAS WILDLY ATTRACTED TO HIM AND
THEY WERE WILDLY ATTRACTED TO
EACH OTHER IN THOSE FIRST
MEETINGS, I'M THING THINGS HAVE
CHANGED.
>> WHAT THIS IS GOING TO COME
DOWN -- WELL, WE DON'T -- WHAT
IT WOULD COME DOWN TO IS WHETHER
HE, AS SHE SUGGESTED IN THE
TAPE, TOOK THE PHOTOGRAPH
WITHOUT HER PERMISSION AND
THREATENED HER AND IF SHE'S
WILLING TO TESTIFY TO THAT, THEN
IT COMES DOWN TO WHETHER SHE'S
BELIEVABLE AND I'M NOT MAKING
ANY PREDICTION OR IMPLICATION
THAT HE IS GUILTY, I HAVE NO
IDEA, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT
HER CREDIBILITY AND INTEREST AS
A WITNESS MAY BE A VERY
IMPORTANT PART OF THIS
PROCEEDING.
>> WELL, BEAR IN MIND, TOO, THAT
BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT --
>> RIGHT, RIGHT.
>> AND THE STATE'S ONLY WITNESS,
I MEAN, WHO WAS THERE.
>> EXACTLY.
>> ACCORDING TO WHAT SHE SAID ON
THE TAPE, SHE WAS BLIND FOLDED
AT THE TIME, SO THAT KIND OF
HANDICAPS A WITNESS.
>> CORRECT AND I'M NOT
SUGGESTING THAT HE'S GUILTY.
I'M JUST SAYING HER ROLE IS
GOING TO BE AN INTERESTING PART
OF IT.
>> WHAT I THOUGHT WAS
INTERESTING YESTERDAY IS WHEN
JACK GARVEY, ATTORNEY FOR THE
DEFENSE, HAD SAID, LOOK, YOUR
LEAD INVESTIGATOR SAYS NO
PHOTOGRAPH, NO EVIDENCE, NO ONE
LOOKING FOR THE PHOTOGRAPH, LA
BLAH BLAH BLAH, SO THE CIRCUIT
ATTORNEY KIM GARDNER GOT UP
THERE AND SAID WE HAVE EVIDENCE
YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT AND GARVEY
GOT UP THERE AND SAID THAT'S
PRETTY DISTURBING BECAUSE UNDER
THE RULES OF DISCOVERY, YOU HAVE
TO SHARE THAT.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS AN
INTERESTING MOMENT IN THE
COURTROOM WHICH IS INTERESTING
WHEN YOU HAVE A JUDGE SAYING
THAT TO A JUDGE AND -- SO WE'LL
SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
OKAY, LET'S MOVE ON TO WENDY.
AS IT TURNS OUT, SPEAKING OF
THIS CASE, THERE WAS A MOTION TO
DISQUALIFY RONALD S. SULLIVAN,
THE HARVARD PROFESSOR WHO IS
WORKING ON THIS CASE AND THE
DEFENSE SAID, YOU CAN'T HAVE
THIS RONALD S. SULLIVAN.
NUMBER ONE, HE'S NOT ADMITTED TO
THE MISSOURI BAR.
NUMBER TWO, HE'S WORKING ON
ANOTHER CRIMINAL CASE, I THINK
IN CONNECTICUT SIMULTANEOUSLY,
WHICH IS AGAINST MISSOURI LAW,
AND FURTHERMORE, IF THERE IS
GOING TO BE A SPECIAL
PROSECUTOR, HE OR SHE HAS TO BE
APPOINTED BY THE JUDGE AND THE
SALARY HAS TO BE DETERMINED BY
THE COURT AS WELL.
ACTUALLY, GREITENS' SEEM SAID
THAT THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY
COMMITTED A MISDEMEANOR CRIME BY
APPOINTING RONALD S. SULLIVAN.
ARE YOU BUYING THAT?
>> I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN
EASY -- I DON'T UNDERSTAND.
I THINK THE JF WOULD HAVE
ALREADY MOVED -- THE JUDGE WOULD
HAVE ALREADY MOVED ON THAT.
IF THE PROSECUTOR HAS COMMITTED
A MISDEMEANOR, THEN GET RID OF
HIM.
GET HIM OUT OF THE CIRCUIT
ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE WAITING
ON THAT.
THAT WOULD BE EASY TO PROVE,
RIGHT?
I MEAN --
>> NO, NO, THE QUESTION IS THE
CIRCUIT ATTORNEY HAS, AT LEAST
IS ARGUING THAT, THEY HAVE SOME
DISCRETION ABOUT HOW THEY GO
ABOUT DOING THIS, AND I DON'T
THINK IT'S CLEAR --
>> BUT HE'S AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.
HE IS CLEARLY NOT AN ELECTED
OFFICIAL.
>> THE ARGUMENT IS THAT THE
CIRCUIT ATTORNEY HAS THE RIGHT
TO BRING THIS PERSON IN.
>> THE LATITUDE.
>> THAT MIGHT BE AS SIMPLE AS,
HE'S A CONSULTANT, NOT PART OF
THE PROSECUTION.
>> BUT IF HE MOVES --
>> BUT HE IS --
>> THAT KIND OF MONEY.
>> HE'S FILING PLEADINGS ON HIS
NAME ON IT IN THE COURT
DOCUMENTS.
>> AND IF HE MOVES HERE, IT'S
NET MIGRATION.
WE NEED MORE PEOPLE.
>> OKAY.
RAY, WHAT ABOUT A STUDY THAT
CAME OUT INDICATING THAT NO LESS
THAN $29 MILLION IN TAXES HAVE
BEEN FORGIVEN TO LOCAL COMPANIES
THAT RECEIVE TIFs AND ABATEMENTS
IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS LAST
YEAR?
THAT'S UP FROM WHAT I THINK WAS,
WHAT, $17 MILLION?
SO IN OTHER WORDS, SCHOOLS,
PARKS, POLICE, THE ZOO, ARE NOT
GETTING UP TO $29 MILLION.
>> BUT THEY CALL IT A
CALCULATION ERROR?
>> A COMPUTATION ERROR.
>> A COMPUTATION ERROR?
TECHNICALLY, THERE'S A 50-50
CHANCE IN A COMPUTATION ERROR
THAT THEY HAVE -- IT JUST
HAPPENS IN THIS CASE THAT THEY
UNDERSTATED HOW MUCH MONEY THEY
WERE GIVING AWAY BY 70%.
FROM 17 TO 29 MILLION.
THAT IN ITSELF SHOULD BE A BIG
STORY.
IT'S LIKE, EXCUSE ME?
WE JUST MADE A LITTLE ERROR,
12 MILLION BUCKS.
I THINK IT'S -- RIGHT NOW, THE
ISSUE IS THE CITY LOBBYIST FOR
THE MAYOR'S OFFICE IS TESTIFYING
AGAINST TIF REFORM, WHICH I
THINK IS A REAL BAD LOOK FOR US
BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIFs --
THERE WAS A GREAT PIECE ON THE
WEBSITE ABOUT THIS.
THEY'RE SAYING WE NEED MORE
LOCAL CONTROL OF THIS.
WELL, LOCAL CONTROL DOES INCLUDE
THINGS WHICH ARE INCLUDED IN THE
TIFF REFORM LIKE SCHOOL
DISTRICTS HAVING A BETTER SAY IN
DEFENDING THEMSELVES AGAINST
TIFFs, SO I THINK THE CITY OUGHT
TO BACK OFF OF FIGHTING THIS.
>> GOOD FOR YOU.
>> TIFF REFORM IS NOT GOING TO
CHANGE THINGS OVERNIGHT.
>> I'M ALL FOR THINGS LIKE
SCHOOL DISTRICTS OPTING OUT, BUT
UNTIL THE CITY CHANGES HOW THEY
FEEL ABOUT TIFFs, I'M NOT GOING
TO BE MAD AT THEM HAVING A
LOBBYIST DOWN THERE, THEY'RE
DOING THEIR JOB.
IT NEEDS TO BE REFORMED.
WHEN YOU SAY WE DON'T HAVE ANY
MONEY, IT'S OUR FAULT BECAUSE
WE'RE GIVING IT ALL AWAY.
I SAY THAT TO SAY THIS.
ABOUT A DECADE AGO, MAYBE MORE,
WEST COUNTY MALL IN DES PERES
GOT A TIFF AND I WENT CRAZY, BUT
IT SAVED THE MALL AND THEY PAY
MORE TAXES.
SO IT DOES WORK, BUT --
>> WASN'T IT SORT OF FASCINATING
THAT THIS WEEK, THAT STORY
APPEARED AT THE SAME TIME THAT
ALDERMANIC PRESIDENT LEWIS REED
WAS PROPOSING A BANK.
I MEAN AN ACTUAL ST. LOUIS BANK
AND EXPERTS FROM AROUND THE
COUNTRY HAVE SAID THAT THAT IDEA
IS FRAUGHT WITH PERIL AND THEN
YOU HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS, A
$13 MILLION DISCREPANCY AND YOU
WONDER WHAT WOULD POSSIBLY GO
WRONG WITH A BANK.
>> WE COULD ASK THE MAYOR, BUT I
DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE'S AT.
>> WELL, SHE WAS IN THE
ST. PATRICK'S DAY PARADE.
>> OKAY, WE GOT OUR PRIORITIES
TOGETHER, DON'T WE.
>> IT DEPENDS.
THE ROOSEVELT INSTITUTE -- I
HADN'T HEARD ABOUT THIS CONCEPT.
I THINK ROOSEVELT INSTITUTE,
SOME OTHERS HAVE STUDIED THIS
NATIONALLY AND IT'S NOT
SOMETHING WE SHOULD REJECT OUT
OF HAND, I DON'T THINK.
LOOK, DO I THINK ST. LOUIS IS
GOING TO HAVE A MUNICIPAL BANK
AS AN ALTERNATIVE?
NO, BUT THERE'S SOME ARGUMENTS
THAT SAY THAT WHEN CITIES USE
ALL THE BONDING THEY DO, WHICH
REALLY BENEFITS WEALTHY FOLKS
WHO BUY THE BONDS, THAT THERE'S
AT LEAST SOME STUDY THAT IS NOT
UNREASONABLE TO LOOK AT THE
POSSIBILITY OF ALTERNATIVES TO
THE STRUCTURE WE HAVE NOW.
I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT,
BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD SAY
COMPLETELY NO WAY NO HOW.
>> AT LEAST IT'S OUT OF THE BOX
THINKING, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND,
IT'S LIKE A JOKE, WHAT COULD GO
WRONG?
AN ALDERMAN WITH AN ABANDONING.
>> YOU AND I TRYING -- WITH A
BANK.
>> YOU AND I TRYING TO OPEN A
STORE, CONSULTING FIRM, OH, COME
ON, BUT MEANWHILE, SOME OF THE
PLAYAS, THE POWERS THAT BE, THE
PEOPLE WHO HELPED THE MAYOR GET
ELECTED, THEY CAN ALONG LIKE
SATURN 5.
>> WELL, INNOT LIKE THEY MAKE
OUT LIKE BANDITS NOW.
>> WE ALREADY HAVE QUITE A FEW
BANKS.
>> I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD RULE
IT OUT WOULD GO KNOWING MORE.
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT VANS
OUT OF LAWRENCE, KANSAS, WERE
ROBBED WHEN THE STUDENTS WHO
TRAVELED HERE ON A FIELD TRIP
WERE INSIDE THE CITY MUSEUM.
SO WHEN THE STUDENTS FROM
LAWRENCE VENS BACK TO THEIR VANS
IN DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS, THEIR
STUFF WAS STOLEN.
IS THERE ANY SOLUTION TO CARS
AND VANS OF STUDENTS AND
TOURISTS AND ROCK BANDS BEING
BROKEN INTO?
>> I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED ROCK
BANDS, THERE'S A WATCH OUT
THERE, WHEN YOU GO TO ST. LOUIS,
LUG ALL YOUR EQUIPMENT TO YOUR
HOTEL ROOMS EVERY NIGHT, NO
MATTER HOW LONG YOU'RE THERE, DO
NOT LEAVE IT IN YOUR CAR, IT
WILL GET ROBBED.
ANYTHING THIS CLOSE PROXIMITY TO
THE MUSEUMS, FOREST PARK,
ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THE STREETS
NEED TO BE PA TROLETZ, THIS IS
EMBARRASSING.
THIS IS WHY PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO
MOVE HERE.
I UNDERSTAND, CRIME RATE,
MURDER, OUT OF CONTROL AND THAT
NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED, BUT THESE
LITTLE PETTILY CRIMES, IT JUST
ME -- PETTY CRIMES, IT JUST
NEEDS TO STOP.
>> I WOULD HAVE THE CHIEF OF
POLICE GO TO THE PARKING LOTS
AROUND THE CITY MUSEUM BECAUSE
THIS IS A FRONT PAGE STORY ON A
SUNDAY A YEAR AGO ABOUT ALL
THESE PLACES AND THE PEOPLE
THINK THEY'RE SAFE BECAUSE
THEY'RE GOING TO A PARKING LOT
AND THERE'S NO SECURITY THERE
AND THE CAR GETS BROKEN TO.
I'D HAVE THE CHIEF GO TO THE LOT
AND SAY I NEED SOME HELP.
I NEED YOU TO HAVE A SECURITY
GUARD OUT HERE ALL THE TIME AND
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HIRE A $12
AN HOUR GUARD, YOU BETTER GET A
GOOD ACCOUNTANT BECAUSE THIS IS
A CASH BUSINESS AND WE'RE GOING
TO SUBPOENA YOUR RECORDS AND
TAKE A LOOK AT THEM.
I'M GOING TO SET AN EXAMPLE OF
SOMEBODY WHO WON'T COOPERATE
WITH ME AND HAVE THOSE LOTS --
JUST HAVE A GUY STANDING OUT ON
THE LOTS TO PREVENT THIS.
THIS IS RIDICULOUS.
>> HOW ABOUT LIGHTING?
THIS COULD HAVE BEEN IN BROAD
DAYLIGHT, BUT STILL --
>> IT WAS.
>> RIGHT, RIGHT, SURE.
>> BROAD DAYLIGHT.
>> BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE ADEQUATE
LIGHTING ON SOME OF THESE
PARKING LOTS THAT DON'T HAVE
GUARDS.
IF YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A GUARD,
SHOULDN'T YOU HAVE IT WELL
LIGHTED?
>> AS THE ONE WHO DOESN'T THINK
THAT POPULATION NUMBERS ARE THAT
HUGE A DEAL, THIS IS.
THIS -- STORIES LIKE THIS ARE
DEVASTATING, AND WHATEVER ARE
THE TOTAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO
LIVE IN THE REGION, WHICH IS
PRETTY MUCH OUT OF OUR CONTROL,
REALLY, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE
ONES WHO LIVE HERE HAVE A GOOD
QUALITY OF LIFE AND PARTICULARLY
TOURISM IS STILL A VERY
IMPORTANT INDUSTRY TO OUR
ECONOMY, AND THIS IS NOT BAD,
IT'S DEVASTATING.
WHEN YOU HAVE STORIES LIKE THIS
THAT PEOPLE CAN RELATE TO,
SOMETIMES A MICRO STORY LIKE
THIS INVOLVING THESE KIDS HAS
MORE OF AN IMPACT ON FOLKS'
APPROACH TO ST. LOUIS THAN THE
MURDER STORIES.
>> BUT THESE ARE TOURISTS AND
PEOPLE COMING FROM OUT OF TOWN
TO GO THERE AND THINKING THEY'RE
SAFE AND ALL THE TIME --
>> IT'S A TERRIBLE THING NRIE
THINK WE NEED TO THROW OURSELVES
AT THE MERCY OF DeWITTS BECAUSE
THEY CERTAINLY HAVE -- THEY HAVE
A LOT OF CLOUT AND THEY COULD
PROBABLY GET THINGS DONE.
>> ALVIN, I WANT TO ASK YOU
ABOUT CRIME AND JUSTICE AND THIS
IS -- I THINK HIS NAME IS
ANTHONY PIERCY.
HE WAS THE MISSOURI PATROL
OFFICER WHO WAS EVENTUALLY
CONVICTED, I THINK, OF OPERATING
A BOAT IMPROPERLY WHEN HE WAS
TRANSPORTING A PRISONER WHO FELL
OVERBOARD AND DROWNED.
HE COULD HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH
INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER.
ANYWAY, HE GOT ABOUT 50 HOURS OF
COMMUNITY SERVICE AFTER THIS
MISSOURI TROOPER ACTED
IMPROPERLY, AND AS IT TURNS OUT,
HE IS SPENDING HIS COMMUNITY
SERVICE WORKING IN THE THEATER,
COMMUNITY THEATER IN VERSAILLES,
MISSOURI.
DO YOU THINK THAT'S PROPER
COMMUNITY SERVICE FOR ANYBODY TO
BE WORKING IN THE THEATER?
>> OKAY, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK
HE SHOULD HAVE GONE TO JAIL FOR
A LITTLE BIT OF TIME MYSELF.
I HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE
SENTENCE.
BUT COMMUNITY SERVICE IS
COMMUNITY SERVICE.
AND VOLUNTEERISM, WHICH IS WHAT
MANY PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THEIR
COMMUNITIES, IT IS WHAT IT IS.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH HIS
COMMUNITY SERVICE WORKING IN THE
THEATER.
NOW, I LIKE THEATER.
I WAS INVOLVED IN IT, BUT I'M
NOT -- THAT'S NOT OUT OF LINE TO
ME.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, DO THEY --
THEY DON'T SAY WHEN YOU HAVE
COMMUNITY SERVICE THAT YOU HAVE
TO, LIKE, YOU KNOW, PICK UP
TRASH IN THE RAIN OR THE SNOW.
IT'S KIND OF -- YOU KNOW, YOU
GOT TO DO COMMUNITY SERVICE AND
HE'S DOING HIS COMMUNITY
SERVICE.
I'M NOT MAD AT HIM.
>> ANYBODY ELSE?
>> THIS GUY NEEDS TO LEAVE AND
JUST INTO AWAY.
IT WAS SUCH AN AWFUL INJUSTICE.
NOW, THE FOLKS IN IOWA WHO ARE
JUST SO -- CONTINUE MADABLY TO
BE APPALLED AT -- UNDERSTANDABLY
TO BE APPALL AT WHAT HAPPENED TO
THEIR SON, THEY GOT LIKE A
NINE MILLION SETTLEMENT, BUT THE
FACT THAT THIS GUY GOT A LITTLE
SHOCK TIME AND HE DID PLEAD TO
INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER OR
SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IT'S SUCH A
OUS RAGE GUSLY AWFUL SENTENCE
THAT THIS MAKES IT WORSE.
>> WHEN YOU'RE IN A BOAT, YOU
GOT TO HOLD ON AND TO PUT A KID
IN HANDCUFFS AND BE RACING ALONG
AT ALMOST 50 MILES PER HOUR,
PROBABLY TRYING TO GET HIM IN SO
CO, YOU KNOW, GET HIM BLOOD
TESTED BEFORE HE SOBERED UP.
>> AND HE WAS HIRED AGAIN --
>> BUT THE FACT THAT HE WAS
SUING THE HIGHWAY PATROL TO GET
HIS JOB BACK, THAT'S WHAT I
THINK IS HORRIBLE.
>> LET'S SEE WHAT FOLKS HAD TO
SAY ABOUT LAST WEEK'S PROGRAM BY
VISITING THE OLD MAIL BAG.
REGARDING THE 3:00 A.M. ARREST
OF MIZZOU BASKETBALL PLAYER, AT
FORMER FOOTBALL COACH GARY
PINKLE USED TO SAY, THINGS THAT
HAPPEN AFTER MIDNIGHT ARE RARELY
GOOD.
THAT FROM JOHN OF ILLINOIS.
WE HEARD FROM RAY DUKE OF STL
WHO WROTE, IT'S INTERESTING TO
SEE WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GREAT
CITY OF ST. LOUIS OVER THE PAST
70 YEARS.
POPULATION FROM 800,000 TO
300,000.
ALL OF THAT UNDER CONTINUED
DEMOCRATIC CONTROL.
YOU CAN WRITE US CARE OF KETC,
3655 OLIVE STREET, ST. LOUIS,
MISSOURI 63108.
DON'T FORGET THOSE EMAILS,
LETTERS@KETC.ORG OR THOSE
TWEETS, #DONNYBROOKSTL BECAUSE
ALVIN AND WENDY ARE GOING TO BE
READING THOSE ON YOUR TURN IN A
MATTER OF MOMENTS.
THE REST OF US WILL SEE YOU NEXT
WEEK AT THIS TIME.
THANKS FOR JOINING US, BUT DON'T
GO AWAY.
>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE
POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS
SUPPORT OF THE MEMBERS OF KETC.