♪ DAVID: WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE PRESIDENT OF NIGERIA?
ALIKO: SOME OF US, WE NEED TO LEAD IN TERMS OF THE TRAJECTORY OF DEVELOPING AFRICA THROUGH THE BUSINESS, NOT THROUGH THE POLITICAL LEADERSHIP.
DAVID: ARE THERE GOOD INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR NON-AFRICANS IN AFRICA?
ALIKO: WELL, THERE ARE A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THERE'S PROTECTION ALSO FOR EVERYBODY.
DAVID: SO THE ARSENAL TEAM, IS THAT A TEAM THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO BUY SOMEDAY?
ALIKO: IT IS A TEAM THAT, YES, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO BUY, YOU KNOW, SOMEDAY.
WOMAN: WOULD YOU FIX YOUR TIE, PLEASE?
DAVID: WELL, PEOPLE WOULDN'T RECOGNIZE ME IF MY TIE WAS FIXED, BUT OK. JUST LEAVE IT THIS WAY.
ALL RIGHT.
♪ DAVID: I DON'T CONSIDER MYSELF A JOURNALIST.
AND NOBODY ELSE WOULD CONSIDER MYSELF A JOURNALIST.
I BEGAN TO TAKE ON THE LIFE OF BEING AN INTERVIEWER EVEN THOUGH I HAVE A DAY JOB OF RUNNING A PRIVATE EQUITY FIRM.
HOW DO YOU DEFINE LEADERSHIP?
WHAT IS IT THAT MAKES SOMEBODY TICK?
ALIKO DANGOTE IS WIDELY KNOWN TO BE THE WEALTHIEST MAN IN AFRICA.
SO IS THAT A TITLE YOU'RE PROUD TO HAVE, OR IS THAT ONE WHERE YOU GET SO MANY PEOPLE CALLING YOU FOR MONEY, YOU WISH YOU WEREN'T THE WEALTHIEST MAN IN AFRICA?
ALIKO: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, DAVID.
IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE, YOU KNOW, AND ALSO SEEING YOU TODAY.
WELL, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY CALL YOU--THE WEALTHIEST PERSON IN AFRICA, YOU KNOW, IT COMES WITH A LOT OF BAGGAGE.
OF COURSE, THERE ARE SO MANY DEMANDS HERE AND THERE WHERE PEOPLE NOW COME UP WITH SO MANY DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, DEMANDS.
BUT IT IS GOOD BECAUSE I LIKE TO GIVE BACK TO THE SOCIETY.
DAVID: SO RIGHT NOW, YOU ARE INVOLVED IN MANY PHILANTHROPIC ENDEAVORS IN AFRICA AND ELSEWHERE.
LET'S GO THROUGH SOME OF THEM BEFORE WE GO TO HOW YOU ACTUALLY MADE ALL OF THIS MONEY.
SO RECENTLY, YOU HAD AN EVENT IN NEW YORK, WHERE WE ARE NOW, WITH MO IBRAHIM, ALSO A WEALTHY AFRICAN BUSINESSPERSON, AND BILL GATES, IN WHICH YOU PROVIDED A FAIR AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR THE AFRICA CENTER IN NEW YORK, IN HARLEM.
WHAT IS THE AFRICA CENTER, AND WHY DID YOU DO THAT?
ALIKO: WELL, WE DID-- THE AFRICA CENTER IDEA STARTED WITH, YOU KNOW, CHELSEA CLINTON, HADEEL AND MO IBRAHIM AND MY DAUGHTER HALIMA.
MY DAUGHTER HALIMA JOINED THEM LATER, AND WE REALIZED THAT, LOOK, WE NEED TO SET UP THIS AFRICA CENTER.
WE NEED TO MAKE IT, YOU KNOW, A REALITY FIRST OF ALL, YOU KNOW, FOR US TO BE ABLE TO PROJECT AFRICA IN A BETTER LIGHT.
YOU KNOW, BRING IN AFRICA TO THE REST OF THE WORLD, YOU KNOW.
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, THE THIRD WEEK OF EVERY SEPTEMBER, WE HAVE THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, WHERE THE ENTIRE WORLD CONVERGES IN NEW YORK.
AND WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS TO TELL THE REAL NARRATIVE OF AFRICA AND TELL THE REST OF THE WORLD WHAT AFRICA IS ALL ABOUT.
SO THIS HAS NOW TO DO WITH POLICY, BUSINESS, AND CULTURE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE SOMETIMES-- ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, AMERICANS, THEY DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND MUCH ABOUT AFRICA.
YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WILL SAY, "OK, WELL, "BOTH YOU AFRICANS, WHAT KIND OF LANGUAGE DO YOU SPEAK?"
FOR EXAMPLE, IN AFRICA, WE SPEAK ABOUT 2,000 DIFFERENT LANGUAGES.
DAVID: THAT'S A LOT.
ALIKO: THAT'S A LOT.
DAVID: SO RIGHT NOW ONE OF THE BIG PROBLEMS IN AFRICA IS HEALTH.
AND YOU'VE BEEN VERY INVOLVED IN TRYING TO ERADICATE POLIO IN NIGERIA, ALONG WITH BILL GATES AND HIS FOUNDATION.
WHAT IS THE PROGRESS THAT YOU'VE MADE TO DATE?
ALIKO: I THINK WE'VE DONE QUITE A LOT.
YOU KNOW, THE PROGRESS HAS BEEN VERY, VERY TREMENDOUS.
IN THE LAST THREE YEARS, WE HAVEN'T REALLY HAD ANY WORLD, YOU KNOW, VIRUS OF POLIO.
AND, HOPEFULLY, WHEN WE WORK HARD BETWEEN NOW AND THE NEXT SIX MONTHS BY APRIL, WE'LL BE CERTIFIED TO BE POLIO-FREE COUNTRY, WHICH MEANS THE ENTIRE AFRICAN CONTINENT WILL BE POLIO-FREE.
DAVID: NOW, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU'RE DOING IN THE PHILANTHROPIC WORLD IS BUILDING A HOSPITAL IN NIGERIA.
WHY DO YOU FEEL THE NEED TO BUILD A NEW HOSPITAL?
ALIKO: I THINK WE NEED TO BUILD A WORLD-CLASS HOSPITAL BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT IN NIGERIA, WE SPEND A LOT OF MONEY WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE GO ABROAD FOR MEDICAL CHECKUPS, FOR MEDICAL OPERATIONS.
THEN WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO IS TO GIVE THE HOPE TO THE POPULATION.
I SAID, "LOOK, YOU DON'T NEED TO TRAVEL ABROAD.
WE WILL BE ABLE TO TREAT YOU THERE."
DAVID: NOW, FOR THOSE WHO MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR WITH AFRICA, NIGERIA IS THE MOST POPULOUS COUNTRY IN AFRICA.
IS THAT RIGHT?
ALIKO: IT IS.
DAVID: AND IT'S GROWING AT A VERY LARGE RATE IN TERMS OF ITS POPULATION.
IS THAT...?
ALIKO: YEAH, ABOUT 3%.
WE'RE GOING ON UP TO ABOUT 3%.
DAVID: SO AT THE CURRENT RATE, AT SOME POINT, MORE PEOPLE WILL BE IN NIGERIA THAN IN THE UNITED STATES.
ALIKO: WELL, BY 2050, WE WILL BE AT ABOUT 450 MILLION POPULATION.
AND I'M SURE WE WILL BE WAY AHEAD OF THE STATES.
WE WILL BE ABOUT NUMBER THREE AFTER CHINA AND INDIA.
THEN IT SHOULD BE NIGERIA IN TERMS OF POPULATION.
DAVID: SO BY 2050, YOU COULD BE THE THIRD BIGGEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD BY POPULATION AT THE CURRENT POPULATION GROWTH RATE.
SO DOES THAT MAKE YOU NERVOUS ABOUT WHETHER NIGERIA CAN HOUSE AND FEED ALL THESE PEOPLE?
ALIKO: IT DOESN'T REALLY MAKE ME NERVOUS BECAUSE WE HAVE MASSIVE ARABLE LAND, WE HAVE A LOT OF WATER, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE RIGHT CLIMATE.
SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, THE MAJOR CONTRIBUTOR TO OUR GDP IN NIGERIA IS AGRICULTURE.
SO I THINK WE JUST NEED TO TILT A BIT AND CHANGE FROM THE NORMAL OIL RELIANCE ECONOMY TO AGRICULTURE AND MANUFACTURING.
DAVID: SO NIGERIA IS KNOWN AS WELL FOR HAVING LARGE OIL DEPOSITS.
IS THAT A MAJOR CONTRIBUTOR TO THE NIGERIAN ECONOMY?
IS THAT THE MAJOR SOURCE OF WEALTH IN NIGERIA?
ALIKO: I THOUGHT THE MAJOR SOURCE, BUT--IT CONTRIBUTES 90% OF THE FOREIGN EXCHANGE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE HAVE.
AND WE ALSO--60% OF THE GOVERNMENT'S REVENUE IS ALSO COMING FROM OIL, BUT I THINK THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING QUITE A LOT TO TRY AND DIVERSIFY THE ECONOMY BY TRYING TO STRUCTURE THEIR OWN TAXES, BECAUSE WE NEED TO MAKE MORE MONEY FROM THE TAXES.
THE TAXES, YOU KNOW, GENERATION IN NIGERIA IS A BIT LOW, SO I THINK GOVERNMENT IS WORKING VERY HARD TO MAKE SURE-- THERE IS-- THEY ADJUST ALL THESE NUMBERS.
DAVID: NOW, AS THE WEALTHIEST MAN IN AFRICA AND THE WEALTHIEST MAN IN NIGERIA, DO YOU GET PRESSURE TO RUN FOR POLITICAL OFFICE YOURSELF?
WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE PRESIDENT OF NIGERIA?
ALIKO: I THINK I'M DOING A GREAT JOB WHERE I AM RIGHT NOW.
SO I DON'T THINK I NEED TO BE IN A POLITICAL SPACE.
SOME OF US, WE NEED TO LEAD IN TERMS OF THE TRAJECTORY OF DEVELOPING AFRICA THROUGH THE BUSINESS, NOT THROUGH THE POLITICAL LEADERSHIP.
DAVID: LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW YOU MADE THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY, WHICH IS BY FAR THE LARGEST AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT ANY INDIVIDUAL HAS IN AFRICA.
SO YOU CAME FROM A WEALTHY FAMILY OR NOT A WEALTHY FAMILY?
ALIKO: I CAME FROM A WEALTHY FAMILY.
MY LATE GREAT-GRANDFATHER IN THE 1940s WAS, ACTUALLY THE, YOU KNOW, RICHEST WEST AFRICAN.
MY LATE GRANDFATHER WAS ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST NIGERIANS.
YOU KNOW, THE FAMILY NAME IS DANTATA.
THAT'S FROM MY MATERNAL SIDE.
MY FATHER, TOO, YOU KNOW, WAS FAIRLY RICH, YOU KNOW, BUT HE WAS BOTH--IN BUSINESS AND ALSO IN POLITICS.
BUT I KNOW, DAVID, ONE THING THAT I'M VERY, VERY PROUD OF IS THAT I DID NOT INHERIT ANY MONEY FROM MY FATHER.
I BUILT EVERYTHING FROM SCRATCH TO WHERE I AM.
DAVID: SO YOUR FATHER DIED WHEN YOU WERE RELATIVELY YOUNG?
ALIKO: YEAH.
HE DIED WHEN I WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD.
DAVID: SO HE DIDN'T LEAVE IN HIS WILL A LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR YOU?
ALIKO: WELL, HE LEFT IN THE WILL, BUT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WHATEVER THAT I INHERITED FROM HIM, WHICH MEANS IN ASSETS, I GAVE THAT ALL TO CHARITIES SINCE THEN.
DAVID: OK.
SO DID YOU GO TO COLLEGE IN NIGERIA?
ALIKO: NO.
I WENT IN EGYPT.
DAVID: EGYPT.
ALL RIGHT.
AND WHAT DID YOU STUDY?
ALIKO: BUSINESS.
DAVID: ALL RIGHT.
SO YOU GRADUATED AT WHAT AGE?
ALIKO: I GRADUATED AT ABOUT 20 YEARS OLD.
DAVID: ALL RIGHT.
SO YOU WENT BACK FROM EGYPT TO NIGERIA?
ALIKO: YES, I WENT BACK... DAVID: AND WHAT, DID YOU GET A JOB?
WHAT DID YOU DO?
ALIKO: I STARTED WORK WITH, MY, YOU KNOW, UNCLE, BUT JUST A FEW MONTHS, AND THEN I WENT TO LAGOS.
AND NOW I STARTED MY OWN BUSINESS BY JUST, YOU KNOW, BUYING CEMENT, SELLING.
YOU KNOW, IT WAS JUST A VERY LOW-KEY BUSINESS.
DAVID: ALL RIGHT.
SO YOU'RE 20, 21 YEARS OLD.
YOU'RE BUYING CEMENT.
YOU'RE A TRADER... ALIKO: I WAS TRADING, YES.
DAVID: YOU'RE NOT MAKING CEMENT.
YOU'RE TRADING IT.
ALIKO: I WAS TRADING AT THAT TIME.
DAVID: NOW CEMENT IS YOUR MAIN BUSINESS.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT IN A MOMENT.
BUT WHY IS CEMENT SUCH A BIG PART OF AFRICA'S, YOU KNOW, WEALTH, AT LEAST IN NIGERIA?
ALIKO: WELL, YOU KNOW, THE ISSUE IS THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT CEMENT, CEMENT IS WHAT BUILDS INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND WE NEED-- A LOT OF INFRASTRUCTURAL DEFICIT.
IN NIGERIA ALONE, WE HAVE ABOUT 17,000 DEFICIT OF HOUSING.
AND IT IS ALL OVER IN, YOU KNOW, AFRICA.
SO WHEN WE STARTED CEMENT IN NIGERIA, WE REALIZED THAT MAJORITY OF IT WAS ACTUALLY IMPORTED, AND THAT IS WHY WE WENT IN THERE.
WE STARTED--AND IT'S A LONG STORY.
DAVID: SO YOU ULTIMATELY WERE TRADING CEMENT, AND THEN WAS IT HARD TO GET THE MONEY TO KEEP THAT BUSINESS GOING?
ALIKO: NO, IT WASN'T REALLY HARD.
AT THAT TIME, I WAS BUYING DOMESTICALLY.
WE STARTED IMPORTATION IN 1980.
BECAUSE I STARTED THE BUSINESS IN '78.
SO BY 1980, WE STARTED IMPORTING SUGAR, RICE, YOU KNOW, COMMODITIES GENERALLY.
AND THEN WE STOPPED THE CEMENT BUSINESS, BECAUSE THE CEMENT, I WAS ACTUALLY DOING LOCAL TRADING.
IT WASN'T REALLY IMPORT BUSINESS.
WE STARTED IMPORT OF CEMENT IN 2000.
DAVID: OK, SO YOU HAD A CEMENT TRADING BUSINESS.
SOMEBODY THOUGHT--LAFARGE-- MAYBE BUYING IT.
YOU DECIDED NOT TO SELL BECAUSE THEY WANTED CONTROL, AND YOU THEN DECIDED TO BUILD YOUR OWN CEMENT-MANUFACTURING BUSINESS.
IS THAT RIGHT?
ALIKO: YES.
I DECIDED IN 2003 TO BUILD MY OWN CEMENT.
AT THAT TIME, NIGERIA WAS ONLY PRODUCING ABOUT 1.8 MILLION OR 1.9 MILLION TONS.
BUT WE WENT AHEAD AND STARTED WITH 5 MILLION TONS OF CEMENT CAPACITY.
DAVID: SO WHAT YEAR WAS THAT?
ALIKO: THIS WAS-- WE STARTED A BUILDING, END OF 2003, AND WE FINISH IN 2007.
DAVID: SO NOW YOU'RE THE LARGEST CEMENT MANUFACTURER IN NIGERIA.
ALIKO: WE ARE THE LARGEST CEMENT MANUFACTURER IN SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA.
DAVID: OK.
SO WHY IS CEMENT SO PROFITABLE, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE A COMMODITY, SO WHY WOULD YOUR CEMENT BE SO MUCH BETTER THAN SOMEBODY ELSE'S CEMENT?
ALIKO: I THINK, DAVID, IT'S NOT THE QUESTION OF THAT CEMENT IS SO PROFITABLE.
YES, IT IS.
IT IS A VERY PROFITABLE BUSINESS.
WHAT WE DID WAS TO NOW LEARN HOW TO PRODUCE IT MUCH, MUCH CHEAPER THAN THE REST OF OUR OWN COMPETITION.
AND, YOU KNOW, TODAY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT CEMENT, IT IS A VERY HIGH-VOLUME BUSINESS.
YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU JUST COME AND DO.
YOU KNOW, IN SUGAR, WE'RE DOING ONE MILLION TONS, AND THAT'S REALLY VERY BIG, BUT IN CEMENT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE CAPACITY NOW FOR OVER 48 MILLION TONS, AND WE'RE GOING TO RAMP UP TO ABOUT 62 MILLION TONS.
SO WITH THE VOLUME IS WHAT REALLY GIVES US A LOT OF MONEY.
DAVID: SO THE CEMENT BUSINESS IS THE CORE OF YOUR WEALTH AND YOUR COMPANY, BUT YOU'RE NOW BUILDING OTHER THINGS.
SO YOU'RE BUILDING A REFINERY IN NIGERIA.
WHY DOES NIGERIA NEED ANOTHER REFINERY?
ALIKO: WELL, YOU KNOW, DAVID, LET ME GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY.
YOU KNOW, WHAT WE DO AS DANGOTE GROUP, WE USE BUSINESSES--LIKE NOW WE'RE USING OUR CURRENT BUSINESSES TO BUILD THE FUTURE OF THE, YOU KNOW, BUSINESS.
LIKE WHEN WE'RE IN SUGAR, IT WAS THE SUGAR PROFITS THAT WE USED IN BUILDING THE CEMENT.
NOW WITH THIS CEMENT, WE ARE BUILDING SO MANY THINGS.
YOU KNOW, REFINERY, FERTILIZER, YOU KNOW, PETROLEUM PRODUCTS, AND THEN WE ARE DOING ALSO PETROCHEMICALS.
WITH THE REFINERY, YOUR QUESTION IS, OK, WHY ARE WE BUILDING A REFINERY?
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ENTIRE SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ONLY TWO WORKING REFINERIES.
ONE, IT IS IN COTE D'IVOIRE, WHICH HAS ONLY 75,000 BARRELS A DAY.
THE OTHER ONE IS BY SASOL IN SOUTH AFRICA.
BUT MAJORITY OF ALL THESE COUNTRIES, ALMOST ALL THE SUB-SAHARAN AFRICAN COUNTRIES, THEY DON'T HAVE REFINING CAPACITY.
SO ALL OF THEM, THEY EXPORT THEIR OIL, BUT THEY IMPORT PRODUCTS.
SO WE REALIZED THAT MAJORITY OF THE FOREIGN EXCHANGE SPENDINGS OF NIGERIA WAS TO PETROLEUM PRODUCTS IMPORTS.
DAVID: SO NIGERIA IS EXPORTING ITS OIL AND THEN IT HAS TO BUY REFINED OIL PRODUCTS BACK, IMPORT IT, RIGHT?
ALIKO: YES.
DAVID: AND WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS YOU'RE BUILDING ONE OF THE LARGEST REFINERIES IN THE WORLD?
ALIKO: IT IS THE LARGEST SINGLE LINE IN THE WORLD, IS 650,000 BARRELS A DAY OF REFINING CAPACITY.
DAVID: SO THAT'S 650,000 BARRELS A DAY OF REFINING CAPACITY.
SO TO DO THAT, DO YOU HAVE TO BORROW SOME MONEY?
OR WHERE DID THE MONEY COME FROM TO BUILD THAT?
ALIKO: WELL, WHAT WE ARE DOING RIGHT NOW, WE ARE BORROWING FROM THE COMMERCIAL BANKS.
WE ARE ALSO BORROWING SOME MONEY FROM, YOU KNOW, SOME FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS LIKE--THE AFRICAN DEVELOPMENT BANK, THE DEVELOPMENT BANKS, FINANCIAL DEVELOPMENT, YOU KNOW, BANKS.
WE ARE BORROWING FROM, YOU KNOW, AFRICAN EX-IM BANK, NIGERIAN BANK.
DAVID: SO WHEN IT'S ALL SAID AND DONE, THOUGH-- ALIKO: BUT WE'RE BORROWING, I THINK--ROUGHLY ABOUT 55% AND WE'RE FUNDING THE REST OF IT.
DAVID: WHAT IS IT GONNA COST TO BUILD A REFINERY?
ALIKO: FOR NOW, IT'S GONNA COST US ABOUT $12 BILLION.
DAVID $12 BILLION?
ALIKO: YES.
DAVID: SO YOU'RE PUTTING IN A FAIR BIT OF IT YOURSELF.
ALIKO: WE ARE PUTTING, YOU KNOW, ALMOST, YOU KNOW, HALF OF THAT.
DAVID: SO DO YOU EVER GET WORRIED AT NIGHT THAT THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY TO HAVE IN ONE ASSET?
ALIKO: AH, I DON'T GET WORRIED BECAUSE WE'VE DONE OUR NUMBERS AND WE BELIEVE THAT IT'S GOING TO WORK.
IT'S TO CREATE ABILITY TO TRANSFORM THE NIGERIAN ECONOMY.
AND, YOU KNOW, WE'LL HAVE THE PETROCHEMICAL, WHICH WE ARE DOING, AND, YOU KNOW, THAT WILL HAVE US TO HAVE ABOUT 1.3 MILLION TONS OF POLYPROPYLENE AND POLYETHYLENE.
SO IT IS GOING TO REALLY CHANGE THE ENTIRE ECONOMY OF, YOU KNOW, NIGERIA.
SO CAN THE IMPORTS OF PETROLEUM PRODUCTS AND ALSO EXPORTING THE EXCESS CAPACITY, BECAUSE THE CAPACITY OF 650,000 BARRELS, THAT'S VERY, VERY LARGE.
IT'S ONE QUARTER OF THE ENTIRE PRODUCTION OF OIL OF NIGERIA.
DAVID: SO MANY COMPANIES OUTSIDE OF--AFRICA LIKE TO INVEST-- WOULD LIKE TO INVEST IN AFRICA.
WHERE DO YOU RECOMMEND THAT THEY INVEST?
IN NIGERIA?
SOUTH AFRICA?
KENYA?
OBVIOUSLY, YOU'RE PROBABLY PARTIAL TO NIGERIA, BUT ARE THERE GOOD INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR NON-AFRICANS IN AFRICA?
ALIKO: WELL, THERE ARE A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THERE IS PROTECTION ALSO FOR EVERYBODY.
YOU KNOW, AS WE SPEAK TODAY, YOU KNOW, EVEN FOREIGN-- LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
IN NIGERIA, IF I HAVE A PARTNERSHIP WITH YOU THAT I'M INVESTED IN, I WON'T HAVE WHAT YOU CALL MINIMUM TAXATION.
BUT IF THE COMPANY IS OWNED BY MYSELF ALONE, AS A NIGERIAN-OWNED NIGERIAN ENTITY, WE HAVE A MINIMUM TAXATION.
SO THAT'S QUITE A LOT IN TERMS OF INVITING FOREIGNERS TO COME AND INVEST IN AFRICA.
BUT COUNTRIES THAT I CAN SUGGEST FOR PEOPLE TO INVEST, ONE OF THEM, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, NIGERIA.
GHANA IS A VERY GOOD PLACE TO INVEST, COTE D'IVOIRE.
YOU KNOW, KENYA.
KENYA IS ALSO A VERY GOOD PLACE TO INVEST.
DAVID: NOW, I FIRST MET YOU A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, WHEN I WAS RAISING MY-- FIRM'S AFRICAN INVESTMENT FUND, AND YOU INVESTED IN IT.
ALIKO: YES.
YES.
DAVID: AND TODAY, THE BLOOM SEEMS TO BE OFF THE ROSE IN AFRICAN PRIVATE EQUITY INVESTING.
IT WAS VERY ATTRACTIVE TO MANY PEOPLE FOUR, FIVE, SIX YEARS AGO.
TODAY, IT SEEMS TO BE LESS ATTRACTIVE.
IS THAT BECAUSE ECONOMIES IN AFRICA HAVE GONE DOWN A BIT?
OR WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS THE REASON?
ALIKO: WELL, I THINK MOST OF THAT REASON, I THINK, HAS TO DO, WITH, FIRST OF ALL, A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE TO INVEST, YOU KNOW.
I MEAN, LOOK AT THE INVESTMENTS THAT WERE MADE WITH YOU.
I THINK I CAN SAY THAT 90% OF WHATEVER WE INVESTED IN ARE DOING VERY WELL.
SO I THINK IT IS WHERE YOU SHOULD INVEST.
EVEN MYSELF AS AN AFRICAN, I CANNOT INVEST IN EVERY SINGLE SECTOR.
SO I HAVE TO BE VERY CHOOSY OF WHERE I INVEST.
AND, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A LOT OF--WRONG PERCEPTION.
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE READ STORIES FROM NEWSPAPERS, AND THEY BELIEVE WHAT THEY ARE--READING.
BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, AS WE GO ALONG, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE QUITE A LOT OF CHANGES IN MOST AFRICAN COUNTRIES TO TRY AND CHANGE IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, FOCUS ON THE ECONOMY.
DAVID: NOW, YOU LIVE PRINCIPALLY IN LAGOS.
IS THAT RIGHT?
ALIKO: YES, I DO.
DAVID: AND HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE THERE IN LAGOS?
ALIKO: IN LAGOS TODAY, WE HAVE ABOUT 25 MILLION.
DAVID: 25 MILLION PEOPLE.
ALIKO: YES, IN TERMS OF POPULATION.
I KNOW IT'S A VERY SMALL-- DAVID: SO GETTING AROUND IN LAGOS, WHICH I'VE TRIED TO DO, IS NOT THAT EASY, THOUGH GETTING AROUND NEW YORK IS NOT THAT EASY EITHER.
BUT, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN YOU GET AROUND, DO YOU HAVE, LIKE, SPECIAL POLICE CARS TO TAKE YOU AROUND?
OR HOW DO YOU GET AROUND LAGOS?
ALIKO: WELL, I GET AROUND IN LAGOS, YEAH.
SOMETIMES I HAVE A, YOU KNOW, POLICE ESCORT, BUT NOT ALL THE TIME.
OVER THE WEEKEND, I DRIVE MYSELF.
DAVID: YOU DRIVE YOURSELF?
ALIKO: OH, YES, I DO.
I DRIVE MYSELF.
DAVID: AND PEOPLE STARE AT YOU AND SAY, "THERE IS THE WEALTHIEST MAN IN AFRICA DRIVING HIMSELF"?
ALIKO: THEY DO SOMETIMES WHEN THEY RECOGNIZE, YOU KNOW, THE PERSON DRIVING, YES.
DAVID: DO YOU GO TO RESTAURANTS BY YOURSELF?
DO PEOPLE COME UP FOR SELFIES OR THEY ASK YOU FOR MONEY?
ALIKO: THEY DON'T REALLY ASK ME FOR MONEY.
BUT EVEN HERE, OR ANYTIME WHEN I GO TO PLACES, YOU KNOW, TO EITHER EAT--I GET A LOT OF REQUESTS FOR SELFIES.
YES.
YOU KNOW, IT'S NORMAL.
DAVID: NOW, YOU HAVE SOME OUTSIDE INTERESTS.
ONE OF THEM, I THINK, YOU'RE INTERESTED IN WHAT WE CALL IN THE UNITED STATES SOCCER BUT OTHER PEOPLE CALL FOOTBALL.
SO THE ARSENAL TEAM, IS THAT A TEAM THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO BUY SOMEDAY?
ALIKO: IT IS A TEAM THAT, YES, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO BUY--SOMEDAY.
WELL, WHAT I KEEP SAYING TODAY, WE HAVE $20 BILLION WORTH OF PROJECTS.
AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHAT I WANT TO CONCENTRATE ON.
YOU KNOW, I AM TRYING TO FINISH BUILDING THE COMPANY.
AND THEN AFTER WE FINISH, MAYBE SOMETIME IN 2021, YOU KNOW, WE CAN... DAVID: SO YOU'RE NOT BUYING A TEAM RIGHT NOW?
ALIKO: I'M NOT BUYING ARSENAL RIGHT NOW.
I'M BUYING ARSENAL WHEN I FINISH ALL THESE PROJECTS.
BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO TAKE THE COMPANY TO THE NEXT LEVEL.
DAVID: OK.
SO IN TERMS OF AFRICA ITSELF GENERALLY, ARE YOU BULLISH ON AFRICA'S PROSPECTS AS A PLACE IN WHICH PEOPLE CAN INVEST--PRIVATE EQUITY FIRMS OR INDUSTRIAL COMPANIES TO INVEST?
ALIKO: I THINK I'M VERY, VERY BULLISH WHEN IT COMES TO AFRICA, AND IT IS THE MAIN REASON, DAVID, TODAY WHY WE HAVE $20 BILLION THAT WE ARE INVESTING IN OIL, YOU KNOW, AT A GO, WHICH WE'LL FINISH BY END OF NEXT YEAR, FIRST QUARTER OF, YOU KNOW-- IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS.
THAT'S IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS.
I'M VERY, VERY BULLISH, YOU KNOW, IN AFRICA.
WELL, I'VE DONE VERY, VERY WELL IN, YOU KNOW, AFRICA.
AND, YOU KNOW, I CAN TELL YOU IF WE CONTINUE WITH WHAT WE ARE DOING TODAY, BASED ON OUR OWN PROJECTIONS, WE'LL BE ABLE TO BE, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE NEXT 5 YEARS, IN THE "FORTUNE" 100.
DAVID: NOW, FROM TIME TO TIME ON SOME TELEVISION NETWORKS, I SEE ADVERTISEMENTS FOR DANGOTE, FOR YOUR COMPANY.
IS THAT GENERAL BRAND BUILDING?
WHY DO YOU ADVERTISE, LET'S SAY, IN THE UNITED STATES THE DANGOTE BRAND, BECAUSE MOST OF YOUR BUSINESSES ARE NOT IN THE UNITED STATES?
ALIKO: WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S BRAND BUILDING.
AND, LIKE, WHAT WE HAVE PLANNED TO DO, WE'RE NOT GOING TO REMAIN DOMINANT ONLY IN AFRICA.
WE ARE GOING TO INVEST OUTSIDE AFRICA.
BECAUSE WHAT WE ARE DOING RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, DAVID, WE ARE INVESTING, YES, MAINLY IN SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA.
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE BUILDING TODAY, WE HAVE A COMPANY THAT HAS REVENUES OF $4 BILLION.
IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS, WE'LL HAVE A COMPANY THAT WILL HAVE A REVENUE OF ABOUT $30 BILLION.
SO WITH THAT, WE'LL HAVE QUITE A LOT OF MONEY.
WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS TO USE A MAJOR PART OF THAT MONEY AND INVEST OUTSIDE AFRICA AND MAYBE 40% OR 50 TO CONTINUE TO INVEST IN AFRICA.
BECAUSE WE ARE INVESTED VERY, VERY HEAVILY IN AFRICA.
DAVID: SO YOU'RE IN YOUR EARLY 60s.
ALIKO: YEAH, I'M 62 NOW.
DAVID: 62.
WELL, THAT'S PRETTY EARLY 60s.
SO DO YOU INTEND TO KEEP DOING THIS FOR 10 MORE YEARS?
20 MORE YEARS?
30 MORE YEARS?
ALIKO: AH, LET ME NOT COMMIT, BUT I THINK I WILL MAYBE WORK FOR THE NEXT AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, VERY ACTIVE IN THE NEXT 15 YEARS.
DAVID: OK.
SO LET'S SOMEBODY'S WATCHING THIS AND SAYS, "I WANT TO BE LIKE MR. DANGOTE.
I WANT TO BE A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMAN IN AFRICA," OR ANYWHERE.
WHAT ARE THE ATTRIBUTES THAT YOU THINK YOU HAVE BROUGHT TO THE TABLE WHICH MAKE YOU SUCCESSFUL?
IS IT INTELLIGENCE, HARD WORK, PERSISTENCE?
ALL OF THOSE THINGS?
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT ATTRIBUTES?
ALIKO: I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE--NUMBER ONE-- DAVID, IF YOU ARE GOING INTO ANY BUSINESS, YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THE BUSINESS "A" TO ZED.
YOU MUST KNOW THAT BUSINESS.
YOU SHOULDN'T JUST GO AND INVEST BECAUSE SOMEBODY NOW WILL SAY, "OK, HEY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S GOOD MONEY IN CEMENT," THEN YOU GO AND JUMP INTO CEMENT.
YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE BUSINESS IN AND OUT.
AND THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE WITH ME.
I KNOW MY BUSINESS IN AND OUT.
YOU CAN WAKE ME ANYTIME AND ASK ME ABOUT FERTILIZER, ASK ME ABOUT ANYTHING THAT WE ARE DOING.
AND THE OTHER ONE IS REALLY TO WORK VERY HARD, AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE TENACITY OF CONTINUING TO DO IT.
YOU'LL HAVE SOME HICCUPS HERE AND THERE, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE--FOCUSED IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
DAVID: NOW, I'VE KNOWN YOU FOR A WHILE, AND I NEVER SEEM TO GET YOU TO YELL OR SCREAM.
YOU SEEM VERY LOW-KEY.
YOU DON'T USE THE TECHNIQUE OF YELLING AND SCREAMING AT PEOPLE.
ARE YOU JUST VERY LOW-KEY AND EVEN-KEELED?
TO WHAT DO YOU ATTRIBUTE THAT?
OR AM I WRONG?
ALIKO: I THINK--NO, YOU'RE NOT WRONG.
THAT'S MY NATURE.
I'M ALWAYS--I'M VERY QUIET.
AND I'M VERY, VERY CALM.
I GET UPSET SOMETIMES WHEN PEOPLE TRY--YOU KNOW, EITHER TO OUTSMART ME-- I DON'T LIKE PEOPLE WHO WILL NOT TELL ME THE TRUTH.
I ALWAYS LIKE PEOPLE TO LOOK AT ME--AND TELL ME THE TRUTH.
DAVID: SO ARE YOU INVESTING ANY IN THE UNITED STATES?
ALIKO: WE ARE GOING TO START INVESTING, YOU KNOW, IN THE UNITED STATES, JUST I'LL TRY THIS OUT FURTHER-- WE WANT TO OPEN A FAMILY OFFICE BOTH IN NEW YORK AND IN LONDON.
WE ALREADY HAVE AN OFFICE IN LONDON, WHICH HAS BEEN OPERATING FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS.
SO WE WANT TO TURN PART OF THAT, YOU KNOW, AS A FAMILY OFFICE SO THAT WE CAN DIVERSIFY THE WEALTH.
AS YOU KNOW--I'VE DISCUSSED THIS WITH YOU BEFORE, WHERE, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IN AFRICA, YOU HAVE ISSUES OF DEVALUATION.
YOU KNOW, SO WE WANT TO REALLY PRESERVE SOME OF THE FAMILIES' WORK.
DAVID: RIGHT.
NOW, SOMETIMES WEALTHY PEOPLE, THEY COLLECT ART, THEY COLLECT CARS, THEY COLLECT OTHER THINGS.
WHAT'S SOME OF YOUR WEALTH THAT YOU'RE NOT USING FOR PHILANTHROPY, WHAT DO YOU DO WITH IT?
ARE YOU A COLLECTOR OF THINGS OR...?
ALIKO: I'M NOT REALLY A COLLECTOR OF ART, YOU KNOW.
ANYTIME WHEN I HAVE EXCESS MONEY, I LIKE TO PUT MORE IN TERMS OF CHARITY.
I DON'T REALLY HAVE A VERY EXPENSIVE LIFESTYLE.
DAVID: AND THE GREAT PLEASURE OF YOUR LIFE IS JUST BUILDING YOUR COMPANY AND THEN GIVING AWAY EXTRA MONEY?
ALIKO: THAT'S MY GREATEST PLEASURE IN LIFE.
YES.
DAVID: WELL, IT'S A VERY GOOD SUCCESS STORY.
AND I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WANTED TO HEAR HOW YOU'VE DONE IT, AND I GUESS YOU'RE SAYING IT'S HARD WORK AND PERSISTENCE, A LITTLE LUCK MAYBE FROM TIME TO TIME.
ALIKO: LUCK.
DEFINITELY.
LUCK MUST BE THERE.
YOU KNOW, IF THERE IS NO LUCK, YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO MAKE IT, OF COURSE.
[LAUGHS] DAVID: WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING TODAY.
AND I APPRECIATE YOUR GIVING US YOUR INSIGHTS.
THANK YOU.
ALIKO: THANK YOU SO MUCH, DAVID.
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