- [Voiceover] Civic Summit
is made possible in part by,

Texas Mutual Insurance.

Providing workers' compensation

for Texas employers.

(instrumental music)

(audience clapping)

- Hello, and thanks
for joining us.

I'm Esther Chung Martin,
Executive Director

of the Asian American
Resource Center Nonprofit.

Civic Summit is focused
on engaging citizens

around issues and opportunities

that arise from
Austin's rapid growth.

And tonight, we'll discuss
this city's fastest

growing ethnic group,
Asian Americans.

We come from many different
countries and cultures,

and are presented with unique
challenges in our city.

Tonight we'll discuss
those challenges

and also highlight the
wonderful contributions

this community is
making to Central Texas.

Joining me for
tonight's discussion,

Dr. Snehal Shingavi,
Associate Professor

of English at UT Austin.

Linda Phan, Executive Director

of the Asian Family
Supports Services of Austin

and Commissioner for the
White House Commission

on Asian American and
Pacific Islanders.

Richard Jung, Chair
of the Asian American

Quality of Life Commission.

And Dr. Vagdevi Meunier,
Licensed Clinical Psychologist

and the founder of
Center for Relationships

at Austin, Texas.

Thanks to all of
you for being here.

When people think of
Asian Americans in Austin,

they may not realize how
many countries of origins

fall under that category.

To start out our discussion,

can each of you tell
us a fact about people

may not know about Austin's
Asian American population.

- Not just the sheer
variety of places

that Asian Americans come from,

but I think that most people

don't think of Asian
Americans both as

aggregate groups and as
disaggregated groups that,

it's funny, we all come
from different countries

and different places,
but in the United States

we've become Asians,
despite the fact that

we'd be coming from
other national or social

or cultural context in which
we would see each other

as different, rather
than together.

So one of the really
interesting things about

the United States
is it offers people

opportunities to reinvent
their own identities.

Forge alliances, build
communities in ways that

they wouldn't otherwise do.

- I don't know if
it's a fun fact but

you know, I think our
communities are allotted

for academic and
economic achievements.

However...

a fact for our community is that

we have very high
rates of poverty.

And our rates of poverty
are actually higher

than non-Hispanic whites.

In certain populations,
subpopulations,

we have the highest
rates of poverty.

And this is something
that a lot of members

of our society may
not be aware of.

And later we'll talk about
the model minority myth,

but and that's a part of that.

- [Esther] Great.

- [Richard] Well, you
know, I think Austinites,

many Austinites often view
the Asian community as

recently arrived, you know,
last 10 years, 20 years,

we've seen this explosion
but there are pockets

of Asian communities
that have been in Austin

for much longer periods
of time, and in areas

that may be unexpected
for a lot of Austinites.

In Southeast Austin,
in Del Valle areas,

there's been a strong and
vibrant Thai community

for a very long time.

There are houses of
religious worship,

there're pockets of Chinese
residents in East Austin.

They've been there for
a really long time.

So, you know, I think it
all ties into the fact

that there's just a
lack of familiarity with

who constitutes our communities
and where they live,

and what they do, and
there're surprising things

that hopefully we'll talk
a lot more about tonight.

- [Dr. Vagdevi] I would
say, one fun fact is that

the idea of the tiger
parent, is a myth.

That in general, Asian parents
are actually more supportive

and Asian teenagers
tend to rebel less

than teenagers from
other ethnic minorities.

- [Esther] Great.

Well, thank you
for those comments.

We'll get to a lot of
these in a deeper way,

as we progress.

So we've just talked
about how diverse

the Asian American population
here, in Austin is.

What are some misconceptions

and how did they
lead to prejudices

against this population?

And I'm gonna start
this off with Richard.

- Well, I think a lot of the
misconceptions have to do

with this view of a monolithic

Asian community,
personality, culture.

And if you are Asian
or Asian American,

you know that's just
absolutely not true.

For instance, there are
multiple houses of worship

in Austin for
different communities.

There're recently,
there've been large

Hindu temples
going up in Austin.

There are mosques that are here.

There are Christian churches.

There're lots of
different cultures

that are just thriving
but people tend to

lump Asian Americans
into one group,

particularly when
looking at us through

an economic lens, or
in terms of education,

all high-achieving, you
know, high-dollar earning,

and that's a real detriment
to the many members

of our communities
who may be refugees,

who have a lower
standard of income here,

and who are
struggling to make it,

and compound that with language
barriers they may have,

and that prevents them
from getting access,

because this perception that
everything is going so well

for the Asian living in
Austin, prevents us from

really looking at the
details and seeing

that there are families
that just don't have access

to health care, or help with
education for their children,

on so many fronts, and I
know we'll discuss that

a lot more as we go forward.

- [Esther] Right.

- [Linda] And there's
just multiple barriers

to access, who, you
know, I think for us,

it's just a really an issue
of access to services.

Whether, in any
sphere, you know,

whether it's in within
the economic world

or social services,
or in health care,

we have just seen
so many barriers,

and a lot of times, when we live

under this model minority
myth that everything

is okay, we forget, we forget.

And to an extent, the community
itself does internalize

that myth, and we--

- Tell me about that.
What do you mean by that?

- [Linda] Well, I would
say that, you know,

I think there's a
lot of pressure.

There's a lot of pressure,
when you have been tagged

as the model minority,
as a community

that's got it all together.

But when we have
issues of mental health

that are not being
addressed, when we have

high rates of poverty,
kids are not graduating

from high school at the
rates that we think they are.

Those things get
swept under the rug,

and so, sometimes
when we're tagged

with a certain expectation,
we try to live up to it.

And we may not talk
about those problems

that we see in our communities,

and that turns into
a problem where,

ya know, government entities
or those powers to be,

when it comes to resources,
so those resources

may not go to some of these
underserved communities.

- If I could just add
to that, I think that

the history of migration of
different Asian populations

to the United States is

quite for different context.

So, Indian Americans
are allowed to come

to the United States
after laws are passed

in 1965, which want
there to be more

high-tech in science,
professionals working

in the United States.

It changes the way a
certain population looks.

We get a subsection of
a nation, and that then

speaks for the entire nation.

But that was a specific
immigration law

that was done by
the United States.

Similarly, I think
that people forget the,

you know, military adventures
that were conducted in Asia,

effected the inflow
of refugee populations

into the United States.

Not everybody came
here as a high achiever

and you can see that.

I teach at UT, and it is
definitely the case that

while, you know, Asian Americans

are very well represented
in the stem fields.

They are, they're not
always high achievers,

and I think that there's
a kind of misconception

that somehow, Asians are
genetically predisposed

to doing math and
science really well.

Or, somehow, I don't know...

- [Linda] I'm a counter
example of that.

- Right, right, right.
(laughter)

- I think that there are
issues that are related to that

but also

I think that some of the things

that the other panelists
have been saying

about the economic
disparities, there's also

big educational backgrounds.

You have a huge population

of first generation American
university students.

So, parents who don't
always know what to expect

when their kids are
going into school,

they haven't come from
backgrounds that have

sort of, generations of
academic achievement,

and so I think that
there's a lot of ways that

this population
is misunderstood.

There's another problem that
I think we should add to that,

which is, not just
internalization

of the model minority myth

but Asian Americans
have also been pitted

against other minority
groups in the United States

historically, and so, it is
not the case that this is

a community that is free
from its own chauvinisms and

issues ideologically,
when it comes to thinking

about other minority groups.

But that's also been a
conscious political strategy

in the United States, to say,

Asians are the right
kind of minorities,

Latinos are the wrong
kinds of immigrants,

Blacks are the wrong
kinds of minorities,

and so populations get
pitted against each other.

And those values
get internalized

just as much as the
positive values.

And I think that
there's a real...

that we have to do some
really serious thinking

through how to
challenge them that.

The last thing that
I want to say is,

I think that there's
also a misconception

that Asian Americans
are kind of checked out

of the political or
activist culture in Austin.

And that's just simply not true.

There's actually quite
a number of people

who've been engaged
for a really long time

in doing some really
valuable and positive things

in this community, and
I think that that's

worth acknowledging.

- [Esther] Great.

- When we talk about prejudice
and discrimination though,

I think there's a
kind of hidden level

at which we don't talk about it?

And that's microaggressions.

Alright, we talk about
how Asian Americans

are misunderstood and
they're lumped together,

but on a day-to-day
basis, this is the stuff

that actually makes
living in this country

as an Asian American
challenging.

Because well-meaning
people will come up to you,

and I heard this comment
today, when people

found out I was gonna be
on this panel, they said,

well, can you answer
me a question?

How come those people
assimilate so well?

Well, first of
all, I'm an Asian.

And so, just, you
know, not even knowing,

who belongs to the
Asian group, and then

making comments, it was
a well-meaning comment.

So well-meaning
people in schools,

in work environments,
in families

and extended families,
are making comments

that remind Asian
Americans that they're not

as equal as other groups,
or that they're foreigners.

It doesn't matter if you've
been born and raised here.

You're reminded constantly that

you're not really
one of this country.

And I think that kind
of microaggression

is what creates the
stress in people's lives.

- [Linda] You know, as a Texan,

I considered myself as a Texan.

And--

- [Dr. Vagdevi] And people
ask you where are you

really from?
- [Linda] Where am I

really from?
(laughter)

And I'm like, I'm
from Nederland, Texas.

(laughter)

- Before that, Linda.

- I think that is the
perpetual foreigner,

or the other, and
that is a cloud

that we walk with, or
at least I walk with.

You know, it doesn't
matter if, you know,

I'm taxpaying and I've you know,

I've done every
Texan thing I can do.

But there's always that cloud,

that you're not really part
of this consistent whole.

- [Esther] Are there certain
segments of this population

or people from certain
countries that are discriminated

more than others?

- Well in the news
today is a story of

Ahmed Mohamed, in Irving Texas.

So, I don' t think that
we can forget the fact

that what is happening to
Muslims in this country

is pretty serious.

And in fact, in Texas, we have

two problems in Texas
about this, right?

One is the number of
counties and municipalities

that are passing so-called
anti-Sharia bills

which Irving, Texas is
one of these, and so

you can tell there's, why
there's a direct relationship

between the kinds
of prejudices that

a student who's doing
something as innocuous

as bringing a science
project to school,

gets seen in a particular way
by law enforcement officials

and the mayor of that
town, who said some

really unfortunate things today.

But I also think that
like, in the history of,

sort of, of racisms against
Asians in the United States,

there's been a direct
correlation between

military projects that the
United States has in Asia,

and the kind of negative
racism that Asians experience.

So, anti-Japanese
sentiment goes on the rise

during World War II,
anti-Vietnamese goes on the rise

during the war in Vietnam,
anti-Korean sentiment

during the war in Korea.

And now that we have
the war on terror,

whatever that is,
we have the kind of

explosion of anti-Muslim
sentiment in this country.

And there's been a direct
correlation between

the projects of this
country, both in terms

of bringing people
here, so that we can be

you know, laborers, or
professionals working

to help build this country,
but also in terms of

subject populations that
are seen as internal threats

that have to be
policed in some way.

And I think that it's
impossible not to talk about

what is happening to,
and I don't always think

that Muslims are
thought of as Asians,

in that context, right?

And so there's a way
that we can forget

things like, you know, the
largest Muslim populations

are actually not in
Arab speaking countries

but actually in proper

in Malaysia, in Indonesia,

in the Philippines,
in India, right?

These are the more, much more
populous Muslim countries

and I think that that
perception too as well,

effects the way that...

- In post-9/11, you know,
we, in New York City,

there was so many hate crimes
against the Sikh community

and, which they
had nothing to do

with any of the terrorist
acts, and we are continuing

to see that, 'til to the day.

You know, there
was a case, also in

where a South Asian grandfather,

was thrown to the
ground by the police.

And so, and also, we're
seeing a lot of bullying

happening in schools,
post-9/11 against

South Asian kids.

So, I mean, it's alive
and well, unfortunately.

And it's not just a Texas
thing. It's across the U.S.

And it really does come down to

what is that issue of the day

that's causing this hatred.

- And to go back to the
foreigner concept, you know,

one thing that can unite a
country is to have someone

that's not one of us, to oppose.

And in stressful situations,
whether it's economic times

or whether it's
military conflicts,

if you are always
seen as the foreigner,

you're always gonna
to be the easy target

in terms of, hey,
you're not one of us

and we don't like you
because you're not one of us

and you know, this is
a little bit off-topic,

but you know, those
recent broadcasts

on KUT about repatriation
of Mexican Americans

during the 30s, because
economic times are hard

and you're Mexicans and
so you're foreigners

and we're gonna ship you out,

similar to what's happening.

But over time, you
know, African Americans

brought over as slaves
for the most part,

Hispanic and Latin Americans
who have been in the U.S.

for a long time, are seeing
more or less as Americans

in different grades,
and Asian Americans

are definitely on
the tail end of that.

And so, to the extent
that there are conflicts

we seem to be easily
picked out as, you know,

visible minorities
with possible language

and accents that
can be looked at

as the other person
and as the threat,

whether it's China, in terms of

whether it's Muslims
because of the war,

or China because of
you know, economic

and geopolitical situations.

And that's the threat,
and that's why, you know,

it's so important that we get

over the hurdle of
being foreigners.

I mean, we have to
be seen as Americans.

You know, because
if we were born here

or were naturalized here,
that's what it takes

to be an American.

And part of what, you know,
internally in our communities

we have to realize,
particularly the newly arrived,

is that when you're a citizen,
you need to take ownership

of that citizenship, and
assert that citizenship.

And not, you know,
believe internally

that you don't belong
in this country.

And I think, those
are other issues

that I'm sure, maybe
we'll get around to,

but I think, are
really important for--

- Can you say it slightly
differently because I'm not sure

that any amount of ownership
of citizenship gets you away

from the discrimination.

I don't know that,
it doesn't matter how

civicly engaged
you are, how good

an American you are, how many
American flags you put up,

how many football
games you go to,

how much apple pie you eat,

at the end of the day,
the issue is not about

individuals being able
to pull themselves up

into the American dream,
because the problems

are really structural.

They're institutional
in many ways.

There are laws that are being,

we're cheap political
football points to be scored

when politicians want
to win elections, right?

So I'm not sure that I'm...

This is a lesson that
I learned after the...

I think I'd known this
all along, but it became

really clear to me
after the three students

who were shot in North
Carolina for being Muslim.

I mean, you were
talking about the best

kinds of model American
citizens that you could imagine,

and there was no amount
of civic engagement,

volunteerism, good heartedness,

that would get them out of

being Muslim at
the end of the day.

I caution us from
adopting a strategy,

in which we think that
it's our responsibility

in some ways to become
better citizens,

such that we can be
seen as integrated

into America. I think--
- [Dr. Vagdevi] Can I jump--

- That was actually
not my point.

My point is not, that
we try to act American.

Owning citizenship,
owning your American,

your being an American,
is to stand up and say,

that's wrong.

That discrimination is wrong.

I have a right to
be in this country.

And that's what doesn't
happen in a lot of

newly arrived communities.

Is they don't assert
that ownership because

some people feel, okay,
well, we just got here

and we don't have
the right to protest,

or fight for our
rights as Americans.

And I think, sorry,
that wasn't the point.

I was making was not, your
know, eat more apple pie.

It's to go out in
the streets and say,

you know what, that's wrong.

When you discriminate
against our community,

I have every right to be here.

I have every right to
protest the behaviors

that are being, you know,
acted out against me

or others in my community.

That's the aspect
of becoming, really,

a citizen and acting, and owning

citizenship in this country.

- [Esther] And perhaps
your point is more about

the person actually feeling
like they have rights?

And knowing their rights?

Because a lot of our
community may not realize

what their rights are, and
they're maybe not taught it,

or that they feel
like that something

individually they own.

- I think collectively,
- [Esther] Is that--

Yeah.
- [Linda] We collectively,

we need to be engaged
with the system.

These oppressive systems.
Whatever they are, right?

So, ya know, we do
have a responsibility
to be at the table,

to get to that table.

- [Dr. Vagdevi] I would say,

that the responsibility's
not just political.

See one of the reasons why

a lot of the discrimination
that Asians face

happens is because of ignorance.

Because people don't
know who belongs

to that group, Asian, and in
fact, it's arbitrary right?

It's a moving target.

- Let's hear now,
from our audience.

And during our discussion
we've been collecting

questions from
people in our studio.

So the first question is,

what kind of role do
mixed raced Asians

play in the Asian
American identity?

- [Dr. Vagdevi] I would
say this is not a problem

just for Asian Americans.

I would say one of the
largest growing groups

that we're gonna see emerge
in future census data

is mixed race, multicultural,

bicultural individuals,
and households.

And what the challenges
that they face

are is that they're, you
know, squarely in two

different communities,
or they feel like

they're in neither community.

And so they really
feel marginalized,

even within their own
ethnic communities,

and therefore may
not seek services,

may not speak up,
may really experience

being isolated from
their own communities.

So I think, you know,
even Asian Americans

have to sort of think about
who is outside the margins.

Who is right outside
our group that

we're not including
in our services.

- As a mother to
mixed race kids,

that's something
I struggle with.

How do we be inclusive 'cause

their narrative, and their
history is so different

from mine, and so different
from their father's.

So that's something that
needs to be considered

in talking about, you know,
marginalized communities.

I think, in a lot of
Hawaiian communities,

Pacific Islander communities,
especially in Hawaii,

the Hapa population,
has its own identity.

But then within the
Hapa population,

it is segmented out, you know.

Are you Hapa Korean?
Are you Hapa Chinese?

And so it makes things
much more complicated

but I do feel that they are part

of this larger
marginalized group.

- [Dr. Vagdevi] And I think
one of our challenges is

how do we transmit the
Asian cultural values?

Because many of the, you
know, mixed race children

that are growing up
of parents like you,

may not necessarily
really understand

what it means to be
an Asian American.

You know, I know my children,

I'll take credit,
blame for this,

grew up thinking that Indian
meant eating Indian food.

And having weird
festivals, once in a while.

But that was it, right?

What do I teach them
about what it means

to be Indian American.

And really make
the Indian as equal

to their identity
as the American.

- At the same time,
I like to look at

mixed race people as the
future of this country.

You know, when there's a census

and more and more people
check the other box,

I think that's
actually, in many ways

a good thing for this country
because it really breaks down

a lot of these old racial
barriers in many ways,

and it forces people to
break those barriers down

because you can't easily just
put people in a box anymore,

and so, I really look
at mixed race children

as our future, and our hope
in many ways, you know?

- [Dr. Vagdevi] Could we
ever put people in a box?

I think we pretended
- [Richard] They do (laughs)

- [Dr. Vagdevi] like we could.
(laughter)

- [Esther] Alright. I'll
go to our next question.

Would Asian participation
in public services

as a politician, public agency
board member, or soldier,

change the misconception
of Asian Americans

being Asians but not Americans?

I'm going to give
that to you Snehal.

- Oh (laughs)...
(everybody laughs)

Look, I'm hopeful but suspicious

that it's not enough.

I think that we
definitely need much more

sort of, public engagement

and I'm not sure if
the question here is,

do we present ourselves
as Asian American,

as Asian, or as American,
when we're, you know,

stepping forward
into public life.

I think that the problem
is that that choice

isn't always ours to
make, and I think that

that's some of the
things that isn't

recognized, right?

So the, whatever the box is,

there's always been
a box to check.

I make this example for
my students all the time

because I think it's
really instructive about

race laws in this country.

When I was born in 1975,

my birth certificate
listed me as white,

because according to the
laws in the United States,

Indians were Arians,
and Arians were white,

and so I was listed as white.

In the 1980s, a new box
appeared called Asian,

and so then I was Asian.

In the 1990's, then there
was a Indian box to check.

So then I was an Indian.

Now there's a South
Asian box to check,

so I'm South Asian.

The policies of this
country in terms of

how we get denominated,
and how we are understood

in terms of racial segments,
isn't always a choice

that we are capable of making.

And I think this is
what's so important about

us talking about some
of these issues, is that

I'm not sure that
it's always up to us

to understand how we're
going to be effected.

I would hazard to guess
that most Muslim Americans

in this country didn't see
themselves as all one population

until 9/11 happened.

- [Esther] Dr. Meunier,
what are some of the issues

you've seen some of your
Asian American clients face?

- [Dr. Meunier] I think stress,

work stress, really
experiencing discrimination

or prejudice, or
lack of, you know,

like a glass ceiling, at work.

I think family stress.

A lot of Asian Americans,
particularly when there's

two generations,
living in a family,

there's generational conflict

and generational differences
in the way they grow up.

First generation immigrants

often think of
themselves as foreigners,

no matter how long
they've been here.

And they tend to have
certain attitudes

and values that go
along with that.

And the younger
generation, the generation

that was born and
brought up here,

are more likely to think of
themselves as ethnic minorities.

And so there's a
real big gap between

the understanding in values
and the ways in which

the two groups move
through society here,

and that can lead to conflict.

For example, around
dating, or sex,

or sexual identity.

These are all conflicts
that Asian families

have to deal with

in this context.
- [Esther] If I can ask about

the first part you
mentioned, glass ceiling.

I mean, is that for females?
Or I mean, all Asian Americans?

- [Dr. Meunier] I would say
all Asian Americans. Yeah.

There are groups of
Asian Americans who pass

for white in their
work environments

and tend to do better.

And depending on skin
color, depending on accent,

depending on their background
if they got their first

or second degree in
an Asian country.

They're likely to face
discrimination at work

for a long period of time,
and it can be subtle, right?

It's not necessarily a really
obvious discrimination,

but it can be a subtle
stresser that never goes away.

- [Snehal] We can see this
even at a place like UT.

The lower you go
down the pay scale,

the more Asian Americans
are represented, right?

So, you look at the sort
of top administrators

at this university, not
a single Asian American.

You have to go down,
I mean like in,

full professors, fewer
associate professors,

fewer, I mean, like
all the way down,

there's a kind of
pattern of, I think,

a sense that even, there's
certain institutions here

that still are, and still
represent that kind of

minority, majoritarian
culture in which Asians

are not seen as fitting
in right, or not seen as

having the skill set to
appropriately fit in.

Language becomes an
easy way to discriminate

against people who are
looking for promotions.

So, absolutely.

- [Esther] Yeah.
- And to follow along

with that, you know,
the city of Austin is,

when we look at
the city of Austin,

we see similar problems.

Since 2010, I mean,
since 2000 to 2015,

the percentage of
Asians that make up

the city employees, has
sat pretty much at 3%.

Even while the Asian
population has almost tripled,

and if you look at
the upper echelons,

there's been actually
a regression,

in terms of Asians who
are in upper management,

executive positions.

At the same time, and this
reflects the model minority myth

in a lot of ways, at the
lower end of the pay scale,

there's a dearth
of Asian Americans.

Which means, either that
they're not applying

because they don't feel
like it's a possibility,

or they're just not looked
at as a candidate pool.

So, again, you know,
Austin is a tremendously

progressive place, but when
we look at hard numbers,

maybe not so much, or maybe

we haven't been asking
the right questions,

or we haven't focused
on an entire community

that's just not being considered

because they're kind of out
of sight and out of mind.

- I wanna circle back
to the health question.

What we have been seeing a lot

is a lot of unaddressed trauma.

When it comes to mental health.

And, you know, working
in a domestic violence

and sexual assault field,
there's a lot of trauma there.

And we are seeing new
refugees coming in.

Austin is a refugee
resettlement community.

We have high populations
of the Nepali,

the Burmese, the
Bhutanese, coming in.

Ya know, one, soon, depending on

what's happening at Capitol Hill

and at the White
House, we may be seeing

Syrians coming through as well.

But right now, those
numbers are quite low.

And, there has not been

a real concerted effort

with mental health providers,

with certain
institutions to address

the need for culturally specific

and trauma informed services.

A lot of times we have seen

clients who come in who
have been assaulted,

but then they also deal with
the trauma of migration.

They also deal with the trauma
of these microaggressions

and, or the trauma of

being treated differently
by the police.

And we just have
not seen any kind of

culturally specific
services made available.

You know, we're pretty much it.

We're the only group in Austin

and in the Central Texas area

that provides
therapeutic counseling

focused on the Asian
American community.

But we're a small group,
and the need is large.

And the need is large.

- [Dr. Meunier] I would say
that's a problem in general

in Texas, is the lack of focus

and the lack of resources
for mental health treatment.

A lot of refugee populations
are funneled through

state agencies, that may
not have any Asian American

staff members at all.
- [Linda] They're calling us.

They're calling, we're
getting phone calls

from Ash and they're
calling us, and say,

can you come and help,
and we're telling them

this is your responsibility.

You need to bring
in that interpreter.

You need to be trained,
on how to provide

these services.
- [Dr. Meunier] And an

interpreter is not enough.
- [Richard] Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. They need employees
in those departments,

that understand that
that need exists.

You know, part of this
push to hire diversity

or to have diverse
departments is,

having that diversity
allows you to understand

that there are populations
that are not served

and be active advocates
within your departments

to go out and make sure that
those translation services,

or other services are provided.

And, as anecdotally, you know,

I'm sure we all get this.

We all as different
rep, you know,

belong to different Asian
language minority communities,

we get phone calls.

It's like, hey, I
have this person.

They're violent, they
need mental help,

and you know, where can I
go, where there's a therapist

who speaks this language?

And sometimes there's
none, you know.

And these are the issues
that, as Linda says,

as we have refugee
populations move here,

there's an Iraqi
population here.

In North Austin, and, you know,

are we prepared when we
bring large populations

of refugees over
here, to provide them

with the needed services
so that they can

adapt and it's--
- [Linda] But it's not even

just the refugee population.
- Right.

- We have citizens who live here

and may speak English well,

but we just don't
have the services

that can really resonate
with their cultural identity.

And so that's a larger issue.

- And to anticipate some of
the objections that I hear,

you know, one way you
can look at it is,

the Asian and Asian American
populations in Austin

have been paying taxes,

but they haven't been
accessing services.

You know, so it's not
like, hey, you know,

let's make sure this
population just gets

a bunch of services.

There are a lot of people who
have been paying their taxes

and just not being able
to access these services.

So it's not just, hey,
let's just provide services

and, 'cause I know
lately, you know,

taxes are a big issue,
but you know, to be fair,

these are populations that
have been paying their taxes

and they just don't
receive the services

that they're paying for.

- [Esther] Let's talk
about our seniors.

That's a population
that probably is getting

very little culturally
appropriate services,

even though their
needs are very high.

So what, I mean,

tell us, like, what can we do
to better serve their needs.

Also, you know, there's talks of

high rates of suicide
or depression, anxiety.

How do we address these
issues for our seniors?

- [Dr. Meunier] I
think you have to

work with it in
two different ways.

One is the stigma about
getting mental health services.

The stigma about
acknowledging depression,

or seeking the services
of a professional,

is going to be much greater
in an elderly population.

And very often I get
calls from their children,

saying, my mother will
refuses to come see you.

But I know she needs
to see somebody.

I know we need to
get an assessment.

And again I think,
having staff members

that speak the language,
but also thinking

outside the box, Asian
Americans are not gonna

come to clinics to get services.

Having more community education,

having more community outreach,

really providing
services where they are,

is I think one thing we
have to look at doing.

- [Esther] Yes.

- [Linda] And that is
something that I do feel,

as part of a service agency,

that we are missing in Austin.

I have seen wonderful
models in other communities

where their services do go
- [Dr. Meunier] That's right.

- [Linda] to the
specific populations.

And the implementation
and the administration

of those services, it
really, the idea behind it,

is wonderful, but
it really depends on

what are the resources that
comes in and support that.

So, and that's
something that I wish

that the city of Austin,
I wish that our state

will take the lead on,
knowing that we have

a very fast growing
population in Texas.

- [Dr. Meunier] Would you
agree that both city and state

agencies are way
behind the reality

- Oh goodness yes.
- [Dr. Meunier] of our

population?
- [Linda] I've been doing this

job for 10 years now.

I could tell you that
- [Dr. Meunier] Yeah.

- [Linda] a decade
ago, and it's still--

- [Dr. Meunier] And
it hasn't changed!

- It has not changed,
and I think it's a push

from not only city and state.

It's federal, it's also
private groups, and I think

it's a community, it needs
a community approach.

A holistic community approach.

- And when we talk about issues,

a lot of it is, in
common, those problems

are held in common with the
Hispanic community as well.

Immigrant communities in general

that have language barriers.

And I think those represent,
those situations represent

an opportunity to
build alliances.

You know, to reach out to
other immigrant communities

and make sure that
we're working together

to make sure that
those service access,

that kind of access
to services exist.

And honestly, just the
senior population in general,

whether they're
immigrant or not,

face a lot of issues
about transportation,

isolation, access to
different services.

And I think again,
you know, our ability

to network and build
coalitions that can push

for those issues together
would help us a lot as well.

- [Esther] Let's switch
gears and talk about

the student population
here in Austin.

Particularly UT.

Tell us, I think most
people don't realize

how high the population is here,

is about 18% to 19% now,
Asian Americans at UT.

So--
- [Dr. Meunier] That's just

the ones that
identify themselves as

Asian American.
- Correct, correct!

- [Snehal] You know,
the ones we can tell

by last name.
- (laughs)

- [Snehal] We can't
ask for racial identity

on any of the, sort
of forms right?

Well, that's part of
the changes after the

changes to affirmative
action, right?

So, we have to guess by,
on the basis of last names

how people identify.
- [Esther] Wow.

Okay. So this number could
be very undercounted.

So, regardless, it's
a big population

that's here in Austin,
whether temporarily,

or they, you know, most of
them really wanna stay here.

Tell us how are they doing
with their mental health

and what can we do
to, I guess, help them

or serve them more effectively.

- [Snehal] Oh, I wish...

I wish that there were more
specialists in this issue,

but I can only tell you
things sort of anecdotally,

that I think that
there is a stigma

about being an underachiever
if you're Asian American.

I think people are less likely
to seek out tutorial services

or get mental health help,
if they are Asian American.

We do know for instance
that Muslim Americans

tend to spend as little
time on campus as possible.

So, especially immigrant
Muslims who come here from Gulf,

or other Middle Eastern
countries, tend to leave

as quickly as they can
and go back to essentially

segregated pools of Arab
speaking, you know, friends.

And so there is a
kind of alienation,

or sense anyway that
you're going to be seen

as not part of the UT
community or campus.

I think that's also true
for it now because UT serves

so many Chinese immigrants
who are coming here.

East Asian immigrants more
generally here are coming here

directly from those
countries, right?

So, this is no longer simply
first generation being

you know, people like
my parent's generation.

We're talking about
kid who are coming here

as UT tries to reach
out to the rest of Asia,

and build partnerships
with Asian universities

and bring over
Asian students here.

But there are really serious
needs that don't always get met

because of the same issues.

Just one anecdotal example.

Vietnamese, if I'm not
mistaken, is the third

most commonly spoken
language in Texas.

But five years ago,
UT did away with

the Vietnamese language program

because it was making
a round of budget cuts,

and that became
the thing to cut.

Those kinds of things
effect a student population,

which can tell when it's
seen as irrelevant to,

and their education
is seen as relevant

to what UT does, or not.

And I think that the
slow whittling away

of things like the Asian
American Studies Program at UT

also are reflective
of a lack of priority

put on Asian Americans,
unless they're in stem fields.

In which case, there's a,
you know, different way

that they're treated
and understood on--

- [Dr. Meunier] Can I--
- [Richard] In addressing

that issue at UT,

mental health in a lot
of cases for, I think,

Asian American students, if
there is a conflict internally

about whether you're being
seen as an American, you know,

an Asian American studies
department that teaches

the history of Asian American,
which is taught nowhere.

You know, high school
textbooks don't have them,

elementary school textbook.

You know, you are foreigners
because you don't exist

in the histories
of this country.

That needs to be taught because

students going to those classes
get exposure to the fact

that yes, Asians have
been in this country

for a really long time.

They helped build this country,

they're a part of this country.

When I go to the annual,
you know, Martin Luther King

march at UT, and I hear the
president of the university

talk about civil rights
leaders, but doesn't mention one

single Asian American
civil rights leader.

No Laureate Leungs, no
civil rights leaders

that have contributed
to changing the
laws in this country

so that, you know,
everyone has...

That is a huge impact, I
think, that could be positive

on the mental health of Asians
and Asian American students

at UT and other places,
is to understand,

yes, we are a part of the
fabric of this country.

- [Dr. Meunier] I did my
dissertation at UT actually,

on mental health among
Asian populations.

And one of the things,
one of the problems,

that I then identified was
that there are these silos.

You go for advising, academic
advising to one place,

and you go from mental health
services someplace else.

Most Asian students

come into the
mental health system

because they're
having difficulties.

Particularly at a university
in their academics.

That is where it's
okay to seek help.

But if they go to an
academic advising center,

and they're never referred

or the person who's doing
the academic advising

really doesn't have the
training, to diagnose

or see that this person
needs mental health services,

what you're gonna
have, is miss out

on a whole bunch of
students, who really should

be getting both services, right.

Who's academic
difficulties are actually

a result of mental
health difficulties.

And I think a big part
of that is missed,

because, and it's not just UT.

I think other universities
in Austin do the same thing.

There's this difference
between academic advising

and mental health services,

and Asian students in particular

need the two to be
integrated and provided

in a single stream.

- [Linda] There has been a
lot of awareness brought on,

you know, mental
health issues with

university students.

We have seen, I wouldn't
say higher rates

but we have seen more
stories of suicide.

And sometimes, you know,
again it goes back to

internalizing that
model minority myth.

That pressures, the
external pressures,

trying to keep up
with expectations

and it needs to
be, I think that,

there needs to be
specific programming.

There needs to be

a very specific response
to this problem.

- For the last part
of our discussion,

let's turn to the topic
of socioeconomics.

Linda, let's start with you.

Census numbers say Asian
Americans in Austin

come from middle class families,

are high skilled
and highly educated.

Is the picture really that
rosy and is that accurate?

- No. It's not accurate.

And, you know, I work

with communities every day.

My staff work with
underserved communities

and we, you know,
we're talking about

accessing colleges, or
accessing university,

or higher education.

And there are
communities that are not

graduating high school.

There are communities, you know,

we've got the Mang community,
the Vietnamese groups,

a lot of South
Cambodian, Lao groups,

who live in the lower
socioeconomic...

environments.

And sometimes, I
feel that, you know,

the achievements of our
community overshadows

the needs, and that
in the reality,

that most of our fellow
community members are living in.

And working within the
social services field,

we see it every day.

We see folks who need
to access benefits.

Federal benefits, whether
it's SNAP or TANF.

And they're having a
hard time doing that.

One, it's, it comes
down to language access.

The second piece
is knowing where

that support is coming from.

And overall, you know, when it
comes to the social services

fabric of our country
and also of our state,

the funding has been cut.

So it effects everyone.

But for those who
are most isolated,

most vulnerable,
they're the ones

who are being impacted the most.

- We talked about
the refugee community

and how it's growing
here in Austin,

but also in the nation.

What are some of the
challenges they face

besides the ones
you've mentioned

and what is our
civic responsibility

as Austinites, to
this population?

- I think the biggest piece is,

as Asian, Asian Americans,
or Pacific Islanders,

those of us who have actually
walked through the door,

kind of keep the door open
for others to walk through.

I think that it is
something that is somewhat

missed within our communities.

We, again, we focus
on the achievements

and we need to
really think about

what those specific
challenges are.

So there is a responsibility.

I do feel like there
is a responsibility

in the community to make sure

that those issues are

not being forgotten.

Really, it comes
down to, you know,

with the refugee
population coming in.

A lot of refugees are settled.
They are saddled with debt.

They have to pay back
their plane tickets.

They have to--
- [Esther] Oh.

- Most of the
refugees we work with,

come with high loads of debt.

And it's hard.

It's very hard for folks
to find access to jobs.

It's very hard for
them to find something

that will sustain their family,
and then have to pay back

this debt to the government.

- [Dr. Meunier] One of the
things that a lot of people

don't know is that a lot of
refugees were highly skilled

professional workers
in their countries.

So doctors, engineers,
when they come here

as refugees, they're
settled and often

given jobs that are way below

their educational
technical levels.

And my wish would be
that we would have

kind of a public,
private partnership.

The State Department comes in

and works with certain
agencies to place

refugees and provide
basic necessities,

but really doesn't
go beyond that,

in creating partnerships
with businesses,

that would love to have
a highly technical,

highly skilled person,
providing services

but don't know how to access

the refugees where they are.

- [Esther] Let's
turn one last time

to our audience members,
to hear their questions.

The first question.

Recent refugees
come from countries

where they were disenfranchised.

How can Austin
government institutions

build trust with
these communities?

- That's a great question.
- Include them.

Include folks.

What I see a lot is, we
have a tendency to tokenize.

You know, we'll bring
people to the table,

but we put them at
the children's seat.

And I think that

first of all, language.

You know, you have
to communicate.

You have to be
able to communicate

with new refugees coming in.

And I just don't
see enough services

that can do that.

There's just not, has been
enough language capacity.

And I just go back to the
original piece, you know.

Actually being genuine,

when we're asking
for information.

When we are asking

how to be inclusive of
the refugee community.

That we're not just gonna
ask one or two people,

and then say, you guys speak

for the entire
refugee community.

You need to bring in
multiple viewpoints.

And so that's how I feel that

the city of Austin could
improve upon relationships.

- [Dr. Meunier] I also think

the disenfranchisement
that they face

is much greater in the
refugee experience,

sometimes than in the
home country experience.

Because just being resettled,

the way it goes through
the different processes

of coming to America, is just as

or more disenfranchising.

And if we can really
be sensitive to that,

and we can really begin
to be more welcoming

and you know, a lot of
refugees are terrified

of losing their status if
they do the wrong thing.

And if we can really provide
more community education,

about what their rights
are, what they can do,

I think we'll see
a difference there.

- [Esther] Great.

The second question is,

which communities
or areas of Austin

do a good job of engaging the
Asian American population?

(laughter)

Silence. (laughs)

- [Dr. Meunier] Well
you know, I was thinking

in terms of certain
parts of Austin

have just welcomed Asian
small business owners.

I'm thinking of, sort
of the North Lamar area.

There's many more,
like, when they see

Asian businesses on
one side of the street,

you're likely to see
more willing to open

businesses on the other
side of the street.

So, one way that I think Austin

has welcomed Asian
Americans is through

the small business
administration.

Through providing that kind of

business community.

But it's localized.
It's localized in
certain neighborhoods.

It's not really integrated
into all of Austin.

- [Linda] You know,
I have noticed that,

you know, I'm just gonna
speak of a geographical area.

A lot of the community
advocates from

the East Rundberg
area and East Austin,

have been extremely
open to having

discussions with
the Asian community.

Because I think there's
a shared struggle there.

There's a shared
struggle and so,

I have seen community members,

you know, politicians who
are from certain parts

of East Austin, that
have been a little bit,

have been engaging.

And so that's
extremely positive.

- [Richard] You know,
at the same time I mean,

it's a little bit off topic,

but based on the
last two questions,

I think one thing we as

a community that's more
or less been forgotten

until maybe recently with
the population growth,

we have to make sure we don't
forget other communities.

And you know, we already
mentioned the Iraqi community.

But there are also African
immigrant communities here.

There are refugees from Africa

that have been resettled here.

So, I think, you know,
what Linda said earlier,

keeping that door open.

Part of that means is, you know,

what that means to me is,

is that we're
constantly looking out

for other populations
that are even smaller.

That are more
isolated and that need

just as much help.
- [Linda] Yeah.

At AFSA, we've, you know, I kid.

I go into the office, and
it's not we're just serving

the Asian community.

We are seeing folks from
Eastern European countries,

from deep South America,

African nations,
and so we're taking

those folks and then
providing services

because they're culturally
specific services.

And, you know, we're
not the experts

on the Asian community.

And I highly suspect anybody

who says that they are.

But what we can do
is actually just

communicate on an
individual level,

and understand what those
common ground areas are.

Understand what the
shared trauma is.

So, I agree with you.

It's really about connecting
with other communities

and having that common ground.

- Can I put a different
spin on this question?

Which is that...
- [Esther] Yes.

- [Snehal] I think
it's really important

to talk about refugees.

I also think it's really
important to remember that

even if we disaggregate Asia

into its different
national groups,

people come from different
class backgrounds

and different ethnic
groups within nations.

And so, it is not even
the case that, you know,

you can say...

all Indians feel
x about something.

And in fact, there are
quite deep divisions

within both Indian and Pakistani
communities here in Texas.

So if you think about having
the Muslims from Pakistan

face very different
conditions than to

Sunni Muslims from Pakistan.

I was just thinking about a
very recent example which is,

the deep divisions that
exist in Indian communities

about politics back in India.

So, Narendra Modi, the...

I don't know what to

what adjective to
use to describe him

but genocidal,

former Chief
Minister of Gujarat,

and current Prime Minister
of India is about to visit

the United States, and
there are deep debates

within Indian communities about
whether this is appropriate.

Whether we should
all support him.

Somebody mentioned
textbooks earlier.

It's also the case
that, you know,

certain conservative
Hindu organizations want

college textbooks and
high school textbooks

to read a certain way when
they describe Hinduism.

Which is not always the way

that everybody sees
these questions.

So I think that, it's not

even the case that,
you know, we can

reduce the questions of
government and politics

to questions of accents.

There's also deep
political divisions

that exist within, so
for instance, you know,

the Vietnam War is still a
politically debated issue

in Vietnamese households.

We can't pretend though
that's not actually the case.

And so, I think that there
are issues of sensitivity

and issues of training that
are definitely important,

but I don't think all of these

are reducible to understanding.

I actually think that
some of these are

questions that are
going to require

deep changes in a
whole lot of things

before they're resolved
effectively because

the number of dinner table
arguments I've gotten into

about Narendra Modi, its...

Anyway, we all have
these debates right?

So, there are I think,
issues that we should

think through and it's
important to bear in mind

that not everybody
who comes from

national context
brings with them

the same things
- [Esther] Yes.

- from that national context.
- [Esther] Absolutely.

- And, doesn't understand
the national context

or conceive of the national
context in the same way

in this country, and the
ways that categories work,

and the way boxes work,
no matter how much

we advocate for them,
still tend to reduce

some of those differences
out of our discussions.

- Well that's all the time we
have for tonight's discussion.

You can find all of the

Austin Revealed: Pioneers
of the East series

by visiting klru.org.

Thanks so much to all of our
panelists for joining us.

Goodnight.

(crowd applause)

(instrumental music)

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