WEBVTT

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>> THE FIRST DAY OF JURY

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DELIBERATIONS HAVE COME TO A

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CLOSE IN THE TRIAL OF KYLE

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RITTENHOUSE.

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BEFORE THOSE DELIBERATIONS

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BEGAN, THOUGH, RITTENHOUSE

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HIMSELF HELPED TO CHOOSE

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RANDOMLY THE JURORS WHO WILL

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DECIDE HIS FATE.

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18 JURORS SAT THROUGH THE TRIAL

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BUT AFTER THE NUMBERS WERE

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PLACED INTO A RAFFLE DRUM

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RITTENHOUSE PULLED SIX PIECES OF

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PAPER TO SELECT THE JURORS THAT

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WOULD BE DISMISSED.

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THE 12 MUST WEIGH THE CHARGES

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FOR RITTENHOUSE SHOOTING THREE

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MEN KILLING TWO OF THEM LAST

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SUMMER IN KENOSHA.

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>> THE DEFENDANT DECIDED TO PULL

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THE TRIGGER ON HIS AR15 FOUR

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TIMES.

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THAT WAS HIS DECISION.

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AND HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERY

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BULLET THAT COMES OUT OF THAT

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GUN.

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HE DOESN'T GET A PASS BY PULLING

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THE TRIGGER FAST.

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>> LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, KYLE

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WAS NOT AN ACTIVE SHOOTER.

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THAT IS A BUZZWORD THAT THE

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STATE WANTS TO LASH ON TO

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BECAUSE IT EXCUSES THE ACTIONS

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OF THAT MOB.

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>> AND JOINING US WITH MORE ARE

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PATRICK CAFFERTY, A RACINE BASED

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CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY.

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PAUL BUCHER FORMER DISTRICT

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ATTORNEY OF WAKASHAW COUNTY FOR

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20 YEARS AND IS NOW IN PRIVATE

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PRACTICE.

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EXAVIER POPE LAWYER, LEGAL AND

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CULTURE CONTRIBUTOR FOR ESPN LAS

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VEGAS AND HOST OF SUIT UP NEWS,

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AND JOSEPH LOPEZ LONG TIME

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CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY.

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THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU FOR

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JOINING US.

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WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT MOMENTS

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AGO WE SAW THE VIDEO OF KYLE

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RITTENHOUSE DRAWING THE NUMBERS

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OF THE JURORS WHO WOULD NOT

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DELIBERATE IN HIS CASE.

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PAUL BUCHER BRIEFLY HOW UNUSUAL

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IS THAT?

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>> IT'S THE FIRST I'VE EVER  

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SEEN.

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THEY USE THE TUMBLER IN SOME

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COUNTIES AND OTHERS USE A

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COMPUTER THAT RANDOMLY DRAWS THE

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NUMBERS.

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BUT I DIDN'T SEE IT'S NOT LIKE

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HE HAD NUMBERS UP HIS SLEEVE OR

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STICKIES ON THE PAPER.

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IT WAS THE JUDGE TRYING TO SAY

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LOOK WE ARE GOING TO MAKE IT

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PART OF THE TRIAL.

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I FEEL SORRY FOR THE ALTERNATES.

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BUT I WOULD NOT READ MORE INTO

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THAT.

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THEY THINK SOME BLACK HELICOPTER

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CONSPIRACY IS GOING ON.

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IT IS NO BIG DEAL.

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IT IS UNUSUAL BUT, A LOT OF

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THINGS HAPPENED IN THIS TRIAL

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HAVE BEEN UNUSUAL.

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>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE TRIAL.

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PATRICK CAFFERTY, LET'S COME TO

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YOU FIRST, PLEASE.

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YOUR IMPRESSIONS HOW BOTH THE

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PERFORMANCES OF BOTH THE DEFENSE

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AND THE PROSECUTION IN THIS

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CASE.

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HOW DO YOU THINK THEY DID?

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>> THE REALITY OF THE CASE IS

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THAT THE CASE TRIES ITSELF

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BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH VIDEO

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INVOLVED HERE.

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SO AS FAR AS THE PERFORMANCE OF

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THE SIDES, THEY'VE EACH DONE

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WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO.

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THE STATE HAS ESTABLISHED THAT

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KYLE RITTENHOUSE KILLED THESE

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TWO PEOPLE.

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ALMOST KILLED ANOTHER ENDANGERED

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THE LIVES OF THE OTHER TWO.

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THE REALITY IS IT IS ABOUT

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SELF-DEFENSE VERSUS PROVOCATION.

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THE DEFENSE HAS LAID OUT THEIR

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CASE FOR SELF-DEFENSE.

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RITTENHOUSE SAID ALL THE RIGHT

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THINGS IT IS A MATTER OF WHETHER

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THE JURY IS GOING TO BELIEVE HIM

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AND A MATTER OF WHETHER THE

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STATE HAS PROVEN THAT

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RITTENHOUSE PROVOKED THE ATTACKS

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ON HIM AND THEREFORE LOST THE

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RIGHT TO USE DEADLY FORCE AS THE

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FIRST OPTION.

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SO THEY'VE DONE WHAT THEY WERE

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SUPPOSED TO DO.

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>> PAUL BUCHER BACK TO YOU, WHAT

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DO YOU MAKE OF THE DIFFERENT

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CHARGES THAT THE PROSECUTION HAS

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BROUGHT AGAINST RITTENHOUSE?

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>> WAY TOO MANY.

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I BELIEVE I THINK THE CASE IS

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WAY OVERCHARGED.

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I'VE DONE THIS FOR 40 YEARS, 42

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YEARS.

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I'VE DONE DOZENS AND DOZENS OF

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HOMICIDES WITH ALL DUE RESPECT

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AND MY CONDOLENCES TO THE

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FAMILIES THIS IS A STRAIGHT UP

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HOMICIDE CASE.

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IF I WERE IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT

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WHICH I'M NOT, I WOULD HAVE

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CHARGED TWO COUNTS OF FIRST

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DEGREE HOMICIDE AND ONE COUNT OF

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ATTEMPTED FIRST DEGREE

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INTENTIONAL HOMICIDE KNOWING YOU

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ARE GOING INTO A SELF-DEFENSE

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CASE AND A FISTFIGHT AND YOU

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HAVE TO FIGHT YOUR WAY OUT OF

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IT.

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IN ALL THE OTHER CHARGES THAT

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THEY FILED THEY FILED AGAINST

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ONE INDIVIDUAL THEY DON'T KNOW

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WHO HE IS.

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HE IS UNNAMED.

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THEY DON'T KNOW WHO HE OR SHE

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IS.

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THEY CHARGED A CURFEW VIOLATION,

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THE FIREARM CASE.

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I THINK THEY'VE LOST FOCUS ON

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WHAT THIS IS.

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THIS IS A HOMICIDE CASE, TWO

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INDIVIDUALS LOST THEIR LIFE.

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YOU NEED TO FOCUS YOUR TIME AND

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RESOURCES ON THAT AND THE

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GOVERNMENT LOST THEIR FOCUS IN

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MY OPINION.

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>> AND EXAVIER POPE, WHAT DO YOU

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MAKE OF THESE DIFFERENT CHARGES?

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WHAT IS YOUR IMPRESSION OF THE

04:53.900 --> 04:59.566 align:start position:10% line:74% size:12.5%
CASE?

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>> I RESPECT MY FELLOW COUNSEL

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HERE BUT I DISAGREE OF HIS

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ASSESSMENT IN TERMS OF BEING

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OVERCHARGED.

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WE SAW THE UNDER CHARGING WITH

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THE ISSUE WITH RELATION TO THE

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GEORGE ZIMMERMAN CASE.

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AND IF THE LESSER OFFENSE THAT

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COULD HAVE MAY HAVE CONVICTED

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HIM I THINK THE OVERCHARGE MAYBE

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THEY HAVE BEEN LOOKED AT IN

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TERMS OF THE GUN BEING A CERTAIN

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AMOUNT OF INCHES.

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THE JURY NEVER SAW THAT IN TERMS

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OF DROPPING THAT CHARGE NEVER

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HAD A CHANCE TO SEE ANY CHARGES

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IN RELATION TO THAT CHARGE.

05:29.800 --> 05:36.633 align:start position:10% line:74% size:47.5%
IT IS NOT ABOUT THE

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INTENTIONALITY WHETHER KYLE

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RITTENHOUSE WAS A VIGILANT WANNA

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BE AND CAME LOOKING FOR TROUBLE.

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AND THE PROSECUTION SHOWED THAT

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USING VIDEO TO SHOW THAT AND HIS

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CONDUCT WAS RECKLESS AND THAT IS

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THE MOST SUITABLE WAY TO LOOK AT

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THIS CASE INSTEAD OF SOMEONE

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GOING INTO THE SITUATION LOOKING

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TO HARM OTHER PEOPLE.

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THAT IS THE SWEET SPOT THE JURY

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MAYBE MORE SURPRISING TO PEOPLE

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THAN THIS OUTCOME THAT PEOPLE

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ARE EXPECTING AT THIS POINT.

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>> JOSEPH LOPEZ, WE SAW THE

06:06.966 --> 06:12.766 align:start position:10% line:74% size:72.5%
JUDGE BERATING THE PROSECUTOR

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DURING THIS TRIAL.

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DID YOU SEE OBVIOUS MISSTEPS BY

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EITHER THE PROSECUTION 0 OR THE

06:15.000 --> 06:18.300 align:start position:10% line:74% size:20%
DEFENSE?

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>> NO, I DIDN'T SEE REAL

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MISSTEPS.

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YOU ARE NOT DOING YOUR JOB IF

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YOU ARE NOT GETTING YELLED AT BY

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THE JUDGE.

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IT HAPPENS ON BOTH SIDES ALL THE

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TIME.

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BOTH SIDES WILL FORGET AND GET

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INTO IT.

06:27.600 --> 06:32.700 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
BUT I DIDN'T SEE REAL MISSTEPS.

06:30.266 --> 06:34.766 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
I THINK BOTH SIDES DID A GREAT

06:32.433 --> 06:37.066 align:start position:10% line:74% size:10%
JOB.

06:32.700 --> 06:40.266 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
THEY BOTH HAD GOOD FACTS AND I

06:34.766 --> 06:43.033 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
THINK THAT THE PRESENTATION BY

06:37.066 --> 06:44.566 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
BOTH SIDES MIGHT HAVE BEEN DRY,

06:40.266 --> 06:46.566 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
MIGHT HAVE BEEN MAYBE NOT AS

06:43.033 --> 06:48.566 align:start position:10% line:74% size:72.5%
MUCH ACTION, BUT THEY COVERED

06:44.566 --> 06:50.233 align:start position:10% line:74% size:72.5%
THE FACTS ON BOTH SIDES AND I

06:46.566 --> 06:53.133 align:start position:10% line:74% size:65%
THINK THIS JURY CAN EITHER

06:48.566 --> 06:55.266 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
CONVICT OR NOT COULD BE VEHICLE.

06:50.233 --> 06:56.366 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
IT IS A CLOSE CASE AND I THINK

06:53.133 --> 06:58.233 align:start position:10% line:74% size:57.5%
IT'S TOO CLOSE TO CALL.

06:55.266 --> 07:00.433 align:start position:10% line:74% size:52.5%
>> TOO CLOSE TO CALL.

06:56.366 --> 07:02.600 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
THE JURY IN THIS CASE THEY ARE

06:58.233 --> 07:04.866 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
MADE UP OF SEVEN WOMEN, FIVE MEN

07:00.433 --> 07:06.966 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
ALL OF THEM ARE WHITE EXCEPT

07:02.600 --> 07:08.966 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
THERE IS ONE PERSON OF COLOR AND

07:04.866 --> 07:10.633 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
THERE IS NOT A LOT OF CLARITY ON

07:06.966 --> 07:11.866 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
THE BACKGROUND OF THAT PERSON.

07:08.966 --> 07:13.800 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
EXAVIER POPE BACK TO YOU, THOUGH

07:10.633 --> 07:15.900 align:start position:10% line:74% size:72.5%
WE KNOW THE DEFENDANT IN THIS

07:11.866 --> 07:18.266 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
CASE AND THE PEOPLE THAT HE SHOT

07:13.800 --> 07:19.566 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
ARE ALL WHITE, WHAT ROLE DO YOU

07:15.900 --> 07:21.866 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
THINK RACE PLAYS IN THIS CASE?

07:18.266 --> 07:24.300 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
>> WELL, THE PERSON THAT WAS

07:19.566 --> 07:25.433 align:start position:10% line:74% size:65%
SHOT IN ORDER TO CAUSE THE

07:21.866 --> 07:27.033 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
INCIDENT WAS THE POLICE SHOOTING

07:24.300 --> 07:27.366 align:start position:10% line:74% size:37.5%
OF JACOB BLAKE.

07:25.433 --> 07:29.133 align:start position:10% line:74% size:72.5%
THAT WAS WAS THE SCENARIO WAS

07:27.033 --> 07:30.500 align:start position:10% line:74% size:17.5%
AROUND.

07:27.366 --> 07:31.666 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
I THINK THE JURY IS CLEAR ABOUT

07:29.133 --> 07:34.466 align:start position:10% line:74% size:60%
WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE THE

07:30.500 --> 07:36.766 align:start position:10% line:74% size:45%
INCIDENT HAPPENED.

07:31.666 --> 07:40.400 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
I THINK WHAT THE DEFENSE WHICH

07:34.466 --> 07:44.166 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
HE HAD A WEAK CLOSE, HE SPENT A

07:36.766 --> 07:45.600 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
LOT OF TIME NOT FOCUSING ON THE

07:40.400 --> 07:51.000 align:start position:10% line:74% size:67.5%
FACTS INSTEAD OF REBUTTING,

07:44.166 --> 07:51.733 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
FOCUSING ON THE POLITICS OF THE

07:45.600 --> 07:53.300 align:start position:10% line:74% size:65%
MOMENT CALLING THEM A MOB.

07:51.000 --> 07:53.933 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
UNSUBSTANTIATING FRAMING PEOPLE

07:51.733 --> 07:56.066 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
IN THE GAS STATION AND WHAT THEY

07:53.300 --> 07:58.300 align:start position:10% line:74% size:30%
LOOKED LIKE.

07:53.933 --> 08:00.466 align:start position:10% line:74% size:67.5%
AND THAT IS SOMETHING HE IS

07:56.066 --> 08:02.900 align:start position:10% line:74% size:62.5%
PLAYING ON IMPLICIT BIAS.

07:58.300 --> 08:03.666 align:start position:10% line:74% size:67.5%
WE KNOW SOME OF THE RECORDS

08:00.466 --> 08:04.766 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
AROUND SOME OF THE JURY BIAS IN

08:02.900 --> 08:07.266 align:start position:10% line:74% size:32.5%
THIS COUNTRY.

08:03.666 --> 08:08.866 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
SOME OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE

08:04.766 --> 08:09.666 align:start position:10% line:74% size:72.5%
SYSTEM AND THAT IS LOOKING TO

08:07.266 --> 08:11.433 align:start position:10% line:74% size:62.5%
PLAY INTO EVEN THOUGH THE

08:08.866 --> 08:15.066 align:start position:10% line:74% size:47.5%
VICTIMS WERE WHITE.

08:09.666 --> 08:16.300 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO LOOK

08:11.433 --> 08:18.600 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
AT THAT AND THE CONNECTION WITH

08:15.066 --> 08:19.600 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
RACIALIZED VIOLENCE WITH WHITE

08:16.300 --> 08:21.233 align:start position:10% line:74% size:42.5%
PEOPLE WHO DEFEND

08:18.600 --> 08:23.000 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND THE CIVIL

08:19.600 --> 08:24.233 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
RIGHTS STRUGGLE AND POLITICS

08:21.233 --> 08:26.100 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
EVEN OF OUR PRESIDENT CONNECTED

08:23.000 --> 08:28.566 align:start position:10% line:74% size:52.5%
TO A BLACK PRESIDENT.

08:24.233 --> 08:29.766 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
IT'S IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT RACE

08:26.100 --> 08:31.900 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
NOT JUST IN A VACUUM WHETHER THE

08:28.566 --> 08:34.100 align:start position:10% line:74% size:65%
VICTIMS WERE WHITE AND THE

08:29.766 --> 08:34.400 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
SHOOTER WAS WHITE BUT POLITICS

08:31.900 --> 08:35.333 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
AROUND THE MOMENT FROM A BROADER

08:34.100 --> 08:35.700 align:start position:10% line:74% size:15%
SENSE.

08:34.400 --> 08:37.333 align:start position:10% line:74% size:60%
>> PATRICK CAFFERTY SAME

08:35.333 --> 08:39.366 align:start position:10% line:74% size:22.5%
QUESTION.

08:35.700 --> 08:41.133 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
DO YOU THINK RACE PLAYS ANY ROLE

08:37.333 --> 08:44.533 align:start position:10% line:74% size:32.5%
IN THIS CASE?

08:39.366 --> 08:46.366 align:start position:10% line:74% size:67.5%
>> HONESTLY, THE WAY I HAVE

08:41.133 --> 08:48.333 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
VIEWED POLITICS AND RACE IN THIS

08:44.533 --> 08:49.266 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
CASE IS WHO IS GOING TO END UP

08:46.366 --> 08:52.266 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
IN THE JURY BOX AND WE KNOW WHO

08:48.333 --> 08:55.933 align:start position:10% line:74% size:37.5%
THE PEOPLE ARE.

08:49.266 --> 08:57.300 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
WE HAVE SEVEN WHITE WOMEN, FOUR

08:52.266 --> 08:58.066 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
WHITE MEN AND ONE HISPANIC MALE.

08:55.933 --> 09:00.100 align:start position:10% line:74% size:72.5%
I'M NOT SURE WHERE THE PEOPLE

08:57.300 --> 09:02.166 align:start position:10% line:74% size:22.5%
ARE FROM.

08:58.066 --> 09:03.466 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING IT'S EASY

09:00.100 --> 09:05.566 align:start position:10% line:74% size:67.5%
TO IDENTIFY WHAT PARTY THEY

09:02.166 --> 09:06.400 align:start position:10% line:74% size:72.5%
AFFILIATE WITH DEPENDING WHAT

09:03.466 --> 09:08.400 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
PART OF THE COUNTY THEY COME

09:05.566 --> 09:09.766 align:start position:10% line:74% size:12.5%
FROM.

09:06.400 --> 09:11.800 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
STATISTICALLY WHITE MEN ARE MORE

09:08.400 --> 09:13.600 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
LIKELY TO BE DEMOCRATS AND WHITE

09:09.766 --> 09:15.600 align:start position:10% line:74% size:62.5%
MEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE

09:11.800 --> 09:17.366 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
REPUBLICANS HISPANIC MALE MORE

09:13.600 --> 09:19.800 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
LIKELY TO BE DEMOCRATS AND I

09:15.600 --> 09:20.866 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
BRING THIS UP SO MANY PEOPLE

09:17.366 --> 09:22.833 align:start position:10% line:74% size:60%
HAVE SEEN THIS THROUGH A

09:19.800 --> 09:23.833 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
POLITICAL PRISSISM WHERE YOU

09:20.866 --> 09:25.266 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
HAVE PEOPLE ON THE LEFT WHO SAY

09:22.833 --> 09:27.133 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
THAT KYLE RITTENHOUSE IS THE

09:23.833 --> 09:28.000 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
POSTER CHILD FOR EVERYTHING THAT

09:25.266 --> 09:30.366 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
IS WRONG WITH GUN CULTURE IN THE

09:27.133 --> 09:32.466 align:start position:10% line:74% size:35%
UNITED STATES.

09:28.000 --> 09:33.600 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
PEOPLE ON THE RIGHT WHO SAY WE

09:30.366 --> 09:36.833 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
SHOULD GIVE KYLE RITTENHOUSE AN

09:32.466 --> 09:38.766 align:start position:10% line:74% size:55%
AWARD FOR WHAT HE DID.

09:33.600 --> 09:40.566 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
I THINK THAT THOSE ISSUES WILL

09:36.833 --> 09:43.800 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
PLAY INTO THE ULTIMATE DECISION

09:38.766 --> 09:45.566 align:start position:10% line:74% size:57.5%
THAT THESE JURORS MAKE.

09:40.566 --> 09:47.133 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
AND IT REALLY MAY COME DOWN TO

09:43.800 --> 09:50.866 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
THE PRECONCEIVED BIASES THAT

09:45.566 --> 09:52.100 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
THEY BROUGHT INTO THE JURY BOX

09:47.133 --> 09:54.066 align:start position:10% line:74% size:67.5%
WITH THEM AND ONCE THEY ARE

09:50.866 --> 09:55.233 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
THERE THEY SEE WHAT THEY WANTED

09:52.100 --> 09:57.833 align:start position:10% line:74% size:17.5%
TO SEE.

09:54.066 --> 09:59.533 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
THERE'S PLENTY FOR EVERYBODY

09:55.233 --> 10:00.866 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
BOTH SIDES WERE ABLE TO MAKE

09:57.833 --> 10:02.300 align:start position:10% line:74% size:67.5%
THEIR CASE AND IN THAT CASE

09:59.533 --> 10:03.900 align:start position:10% line:74% size:62.5%
WHERE BOTH SIDES HAVE THE

10:00.866 --> 10:06.400 align:start position:10% line:74% size:67.5%
AMMUNITION TO SUPPORT THEIR

10:02.300 --> 10:07.833 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
POSITIONS IT'S SOMETIMES COMES

10:03.900 --> 10:09.966 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
DOWN TO WHO IS IN THE BOX WHAT

10:06.400 --> 10:11.333 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
THEIR PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS ARE

10:07.833 --> 10:12.566 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
AND HOW THEY WANT TO BRING THIS

10:09.966 --> 10:16.100 align:start position:10% line:74% size:27.5%
TO A CLOSE.

10:11.333 --> 10:17.366 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
>> THE DEFENSE STILL TRYING TO

10:12.566 --> 10:18.900 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
GET THE CASE THROWN OUT OVER

10:16.100 --> 10:20.533 align:start position:10% line:74% size:62.5%
PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT.

10:17.366 --> 10:22.533 align:start position:10% line:74% size:62.5%
PAUL BUCHER WHO HAS TO BE

10:18.900 --> 10:23.600 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
FEELING BEST ABOUT THEIR CASE AS

10:20.533 --> 10:26.566 align:start position:10% line:74% size:52.5%
THE JURY DELIBERATES?

10:22.533 --> 10:29.033 align:start position:10% line:74% size:62.5%
>> THE THINK THE DEFENSE.

10:23.600 --> 10:31.633 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
THE DEFENSE DID NOT [INAUDIBLE]

10:26.566 --> 10:32.066 align:start position:10% line:74% size:72.5%
LESS SERIOUS CASES, THEY TOOK

10:29.033 --> 10:34.800 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
THE STRATEGY OF GO BIG OR GO

10:31.633 --> 10:35.933 align:start position:10% line:74% size:12.5%
HOME.

10:32.066 --> 10:36.533 align:start position:10% line:74% size:65%
I DO DISAGREE THAT RACE OR

10:34.800 --> 10:38.400 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
POLITICS IS ANYTHING TO DO WITH

10:35.933 --> 10:39.700 align:start position:10% line:74% size:25%
THIS CASE.

10:36.533 --> 10:41.400 align:start position:10% line:74% size:67.5%
I KNOW SOME OF THE MEDIA IS

10:38.400 --> 10:43.133 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
TRYING TO MAKE IT INTO THAT.

10:39.700 --> 10:45.466 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
I DON'T THINK IT HAS ANYTHING TO

10:41.400 --> 10:47.433 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
DO WITH IT THE JUDGE STRUGGLED

10:43.133 --> 10:51.133 align:start position:10% line:74% size:42.5%
TO KEEP THAT OUT.

10:45.466 --> 10:51.866 align:start position:10% line:74% size:67.5%
AND THERE WAS PROSECUTORIAL

10:47.433 --> 10:54.900 align:start position:10% line:74% size:62.5%
ERROR THE PROSECUTION DID

10:51.133 --> 10:55.800 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
COMMENT INAPPROPRIATELY AND IT

10:51.866 --> 10:58.333 align:start position:10% line:74% size:67.5%
WILL BE AN APPELLATE ISSUE.

10:54.900 --> 10:59.733 align:start position:10% line:74% size:60%
>> AND JOSEPH LOPEZ YOUR

10:55.800 --> 11:00.066 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
THOUGHTS WHO DO YOU THINK HAS TO

10:58.333 --> 11:01.333 align:start position:10% line:74% size:67.5%
BE FEELING BEST ABOUT THEIR

10:59.733 --> 11:02.533 align:start position:10% line:74% size:12.5%
CASE?

11:00.066 --> 11:04.266 align:start position:10% line:74% size:62.5%
>> I THINK THE DEFENSE IS

11:01.333 --> 11:07.133 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
PROBABLY FEELING THE BEST ABOUT

11:02.533 --> 11:08.533 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
THEIR CASE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE

11:04.266 --> 11:09.900 align:start position:10% line:74% size:65%
THEY WERE ABLE TO USE VERY

11:07.133 --> 11:11.466 align:start position:10% line:74% size:72.5%
EFFECTIVELY THE PROSECUTION'S

11:08.533 --> 11:13.133 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
WITNESSES AS THEIR OWN WITNESSES

11:09.900 --> 11:14.800 align:start position:10% line:74% size:65%
WHICH IS ONE OF THE TRICKS

11:11.466 --> 11:16.533 align:start position:10% line:74% size:60%
DEFENSE LAWYERS WILL DO.

11:13.133 --> 11:18.233 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
GOOD DEFENSE LAWYERS WILL TAKE

11:14.800 --> 11:20.600 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
THAT BAD WITNESS AND TURN THEM

11:16.533 --> 11:22.866 align:start position:10% line:74% size:80%
AROUND AND MAKE THEM HIS WITNESS

11:18.233 --> 11:24.833 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
BUT IT IS AN UPHILL BATTLE YOU

11:20.600 --> 11:27.600 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
LOOK AT THE JURY INSTRUCTIONS I

11:22.866 --> 11:30.133 align:start position:10% line:74% size:60%
DON'T KNOW IF THE JURORS

11:24.833 --> 11:32.766 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
UNDERSTOOD IT THEY ASKED FOR

11:27.600 --> 11:34.133 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
EXTRA COPIES IT SEEMS THEY ARE

11:30.133 --> 11:36.433 align:start position:10% line:74% size:77.5%
INTERESTED IN THE INSTRUCTIONS.

11:32.766 --> 11:38.000 align:start position:10% line:74% size:75%
AND PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU

11:34.133 --> 11:40.200 align:start position:10% line:74% size:67.5%
HAVE SELF-DEFENSE IT IS NOT

11:36.433 --> 11:41.333 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
ABSOLUTE THERE ARE LIMITS TO

11:38.000 --> 11:42.533 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
SELF-DEFENSE YOU CANNOT JUST

11:40.200 --> 11:43.266 align:start position:10% line:74% size:42.5%
BLOW PEOPLE AWAY.

11:41.333 --> 11:45.200 align:start position:10% line:74% size:67.5%
>> THAT IS WHERE WE HAVE TO

11:42.533 --> 11:45.966 align:start position:10% line:74% size:22.5%
LEAVE IT.

11:43.266 --> 11:48.200 align:start position:10% line:74% size:70%
I APPRECIATE ALL FOUR OF YOU