H.H. HOLMES IS CONSIDERED

AMERICA'S FIRST SERIAL KILLER.

HE BUILT A HOTEL OF HORRORS TO

LURE AND KILL GUESTS DURING THE

CHICAGO 1893 WORLD'S FAIR.

ACCORDING TO AUTHORS HIS MURDER

CASTLE FEATURED A MAZE OF SECRET

HALLWAYS, FALSE FLOORS,

TRAPDOORS AND SOUNDPROOF ROOMS.

HE WOULD SEND POISON GAS THROUGH

THE VENTS TO ASPHYXIATE HIS

GUESTS.

HOLMES SENT THE BODIES DOWN

SHUTES TO THE MAKESHIFT MORGUE

TO SELL THE SKELETONS TO MEDICAL

SCHOOLS.

HE WAS PUT TO DEATH FOR KILLING

ONE MAN BUT WAS HOLMES HANGED?

RUMORS ABOUND THAT HE CHEATED

DEATH AND ESCAPED TO SOUTH

AMERICA.

THE DECENTENTS HAD HIS BODY

EXHUMED AND PUT THIS MYSTERY TO

REST.

HERE IS ADAM SELZER, HIS NEW

BOOK IS, "H.H. HOLMES: THE TRUE

HISTORY OF THE WHITE CITY DEVIL"

AND ADAM WELCOME TO "CHICAGO

TONIGHT."

FIRST OF ALL HOW DID YOU GET

INTERESTED IN H.H. HOLMES?

U I WAS WORKING FOR A GHOST TOUR

COMPANY THAT WANTED TO DO H.H.

HOLMES TOURS AND THERE WAS NOT

ENOUGH MATERIAL OUT TO FILL A

THREE-HOUR TOUR SO I STARTED

GOING INTO THE NEWSPAPER

ARCHIVES.

AND FOUND OUT HOW MUCH DATA THAT

IS BURIED IN THE LEGAL ARCHIVES

THAT NO ONE HAS BEEN LOOKING AT.

>> WHAT HAVE YOU DISCOVERED THAT

HAVE NOT BEEN COVERED?

DEVIL IN THE WHITE CITY?

WHAT DID YOU LEARN?

>> I LEARNED HE WAS A SWINDLER

AND A LOT OF THE THINGS WE THINK

WE KNOW ABOUT HIM ARE THINGS

THAT COME OUT OF TABLOIDS.

A LOT OF IS WHAT WE WOULD CALL

FAKES NEWS IT WAS HALF REPORTED

NEWS.

>> AND GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF

SOMETHING THAT WAS FAKE NEWS

COME TO BE ACCEPTED AS GOSPEL?

>> THE FACT THAT HE OWNED A

HOTEL.

HE SAID HE WAS STARTING A HOTEL

BUT IT WAS NEVER COMPLETED AND

OPEN FOR BUSINESSES THE IDEA HE

WAS KILLING PATRONS IN ONE IS

ONE THAT A NEW YORK TABLOID

DREAMED UP.

>> DO YOU AGREE THAT HE WAS

KILLING PEOPLE?

>> SURE.

NOT THOSE PARTICULAR PEOPLE BUT

9 OR 10 PEOPLE.

>> 9 OR 10 PEOPLE SOME PEOPLE

SAY 27 AND SOME PEOPLE SAY 200.

>> HE CONFESSED TO 27 BEFORE HE

WAS EXECUTED BUT SEVERAL PEOPLE

THAT HE CONFESSED TO KILLING

WERE ALIVE.

AND PEOPLE STARTED SAYING 200

THE NUMBER CAME OUT OF NOWHERE.

>> WHO WERE THE NINE PEOPLE THAT

YOU'RE CONVINCED HE KILLED NINE?

>> I SAY NINE.

THERE WAS BENJAMIN, THE ONE MAN

HE WAS HANGED FOR KILLING.

AND THREE CHILDREN WHO KNEW TOO

MUCH AND A COUPLE GIRLFRIENDS

WHO KNEW TOO MUCH AND ONE OF

THEIR DAUGHTERS AS WELL.

ROBERT LATIMER?

>> ROBERT LATIMER WAS A JANITOR

OF HOLMES WHO HE CONFESSED TO

MURDERING EVEN THOUGH HE WAS

ALIVE AND WELL.

>> HE TOLD NEWSPAPERS THAT

HOLMES NEVER HANGED IN

PHILADELPHIA AND HE CHEATED THE

GALLOS AND HE HOW COULD --

WHAT IS THE THEORY THAT EXPLAINS

HOW HOLMES MIGHT HAVE DONE THAT?

>> LATIMER SAID HE UNCOVERED A

STORY THAT WHAT HAPPENED THEY

GOTTEN A CORPSE AHEAD OF TIME

AND THEY PROPERRED HIM UP AND

THAT WHAT THEY HANGED AND HIS

DESCRIPTION OF THE HANGING DID

NOT MATCH WHAT WERE PUBLISHED AT

THE TIME.

AND HE DID WANT TO BE BURIED IN

A LARGE BLOCK OF CONCRETE.

>> AND A FEW MORE DETAILS ON THE

CONCRETE IN THE GRAVE.

WHAT EXACTLY DID HE ASK FOR?

AND WHY DID HE GET IT?

>> WELL, THAT IS A GOOD

QUESTION.

HIS LAWYER FELT LIKE HE HAD NOT

DONE ENOUGH FOR HIM AND DID NOT

WANT TO HELP HIM GET THE REQUEST

WAS TO BE BURIED IN A WAY THAT

ANYBODY COULD DIG UP HIS BODY

AND BEING DISSECTED.

HE DID NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN.

HE WANTED ALL OF THIS CONCRETE

SO NOBODY COULD STEAL HIS BODY.

>> HE HAD HIS CASKET FILLED WITH

CONCRETE BURIED 10 FEET DEEP AND

MORE CONCRETE ON TOP OF THAT.

SO HIS GRANDCHILDREN REQUESTED

THE EXHUMING, HOW COME?

>> TO PUT THE RUMORS TO REST TO

FIND OUT ONCE AND FOR ALL.

I KEEP SAYING IF IT IS HIM WE

CAN SHAVE THE CONCRETE DOWN AND

MAKE HIM LOOK LIKE HANS SOLO.

>> HE HAS BEEN EXHUMED?

>> I'VE NOT SURE YET.

I KNOW THERE WAS DIGGING BUT I

DO NOT HAVE FURTHER DETAILS.

>> THERE WERE REPORTS OF A

BACKHOE DOING DIGGING.

>> THERE'S A FIRM IS ISSUED AND

DIGGING IS DONE THAT IS ALL I

CAN TELL YOU.

>> HOW --

REMIND US HOW WE ENDED UP IN

PENNSYLVANIA FOR THAT TRIAL?

WHEN HE HAD DONE MOST OF HIS

DAMAGE HERE IN THE CITY?

>> WELL, THEY NEVER MANAGED TO

PIN MUCH ON HIM IN CHICAGO BUT

THEY WERE ABLE TO CATCH HIM

KILLING BENJAMIN WHICH HE DID AS

A SCHEME TO GET HIS INSURANCE

MONEY.

>> WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CASTLE?

THE HOTEL THAT YOU SAY NEVER

WAS?

>> WELL THERE WAS A BUILDING

THERE IT STARTED OUT AS A TWO

STOREY BUILDING AND HE ADDED A

THIRD STOREY THAT HE PRETEPIDDED

WAS GOING TO BE A HOTEL.

THERE WERE A COUPLE OF FIRES BUT

UNDER OPERATION UNDER DIFFERENT

BRANDING UP UNTIL 1938 WHEN THE

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BOUGHT IT.

AND THEY TORE IT DOWN IN THE

LATE 30s.

>> AND IT'S NOW PART OF A POST

OFFICE?

>> THERE IS A POST OFFICE NEXT

TO THE SPACE.

OVERLAP BETWEEN THE TWO.

>> NOW, ARE THE DESCRIPTIONS OF

THE BUILDING AS REPORTED IN

TERMS OF THE SECRET HALLWAYS AND

THE SOUNDPROOF ROOMS?

>> SOME OF THEM ARE.

THERE WAS A HIDDEN CHAMBER

BETWEEN THE FIRST AND THE SECOND

FLOOR AND A VAULT THAT WAS

SOUNDPROOF AND A COUPLE OF

HIDDEN CHAMBERS AND TRAPDOORS IN

THE BATHROOMS.

>> AND HE IS SAID HE WAS BORN

WITH A DEVIL IN HIM.

AFTER ALL THE RESEARCH AND

WRITING YOU HAVE DONE WHAT ARE

YOUR INSIGHTS INTO H.H. HOLMES?

THAT WAS NOT HIS NAME.

>> RIGHT.

HE OPERATED UNDER SEVERAL NAMES.

I THINK THE MAN COULD NOT STOP

LYING FOR THE LIFE OF HIM.

AND HE BECAME THIS AMERICAN TALL

TALE FIGURE AND THE LAST COUPLE

OF MONTHS IN PRISON HE DID NOT

HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO THAN

SENDING DETECTIVES ON WILD GOOSE

CHASES AND THERE WAS SOMETHING

ABOUT THE GUY THAT SPARKED

PEOPLE'S IMAGINATIONS.

AND THE NEW POLICE CHIEF CAME UP

WITH WEIRD IDEAS AND AT THE LAST

COUPLE MONTHS OF HIS LIFE HE

STARTED TO ENJOY THAT AND SAID

YEP I DID ALL OF THOSE THINGS

EVEN THINGS THAT THEY HAVE

PROVEN THAT HE COULD NOT HAVE

DONE.

>> YOU GAVE THE VERSIONS WHAT IS

THE MOST COMMON THAT YOU

RECEIVED ABOUT HO H.H. HOLMES

HOLE?

>> IS WHERE WAS THE MURDER

CASTLE?

IT IS A VACANT LOT RIGHT NOW.

>> HOW SOON AFTER THE CRIMES

WERE COMMITTED THERE THE NINE OR

SO THAT YOU THINK MAY HAVE

HAPPENED HOW SOON DID PEOPLE

FIND OUT WHAT HAD BEEN GOING IN

THE BUILDING?

>> IT WAS A COUPLE OF YEARS.

PEOPLE KNEW THAT H.H. HOLMES WAS

UP TO SHADY BUSINESS IN CHICAGO

HE WAS SUED 60 TIMES THAT I KNOW

OF.

MOSTLY FOR NOT PAYING BILLS BUT

GOOD AT COVERING TRACKS AS FAR

AS KILLING PEOPLE AND TELLING

RELATIVES THEY GOT MARRIED AND

WENT TO EUROPE.

>> THERE IS A BUSINESS ABOUT

HAVING HIM SOLD SKELETONS?

>> THERE WAS A GUY THAT SHOWED

UP WHEN THEY WERE INVESTIGATING

AND SAID I USED TO BUY DEAD

BODIES FROM THIS GUY TO SELL TO

MEDICAL SCHOOLS BUT IT LOOKED

LIKE IT WAS A GUY WHO WOULD SAY

WHATEVER THE POLICE WANTED TO IF

THEY POURED ENOUGH WHISKEY DOWN

HIS THROAT.

WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE

AWAY FROM THE BOOK?

>> HOW STORIES EMBED IN OUR

CONSCIOUSNESS AND HOW WE

REMEMBER PARTS OF STORIES.

AND HOW MYTHS GROW OVER TIME HOW

THE STORY EVOLVED AND HOW WE

REMEMBER IT NOW.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.