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H.H. HOLMES IS CONSIDERED

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AMERICA'S FIRST SERIAL KILLER.

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HE BUILT A HOTEL OF HORRORS TO

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LURE AND KILL GUESTS DURING THE

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CHICAGO 1893 WORLD'S FAIR.

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ACCORDING TO AUTHORS HIS MURDER

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CASTLE FEATURED A MAZE OF SECRET

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HALLWAYS, FALSE FLOORS,

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TRAPDOORS AND SOUNDPROOF ROOMS.

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HE WOULD SEND POISON GAS THROUGH

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THE VENTS TO ASPHYXIATE HIS

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GUESTS.

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HOLMES SENT THE BODIES DOWN

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SHUTES TO THE MAKESHIFT MORGUE

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TO SELL THE SKELETONS TO MEDICAL

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SCHOOLS.

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HE WAS PUT TO DEATH FOR KILLING

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ONE MAN BUT WAS HOLMES HANGED?

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RUMORS ABOUND THAT HE CHEATED

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DEATH AND ESCAPED TO SOUTH

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AMERICA.

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THE DECENTENTS HAD HIS BODY

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EXHUMED AND PUT THIS MYSTERY TO

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REST.

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HERE IS ADAM SELZER, HIS NEW

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BOOK IS, "H.H. HOLMES: THE TRUE

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HISTORY OF THE WHITE CITY DEVIL"

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AND ADAM WELCOME TO "CHICAGO

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TONIGHT."

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FIRST OF ALL HOW DID YOU GET

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INTERESTED IN H.H. HOLMES?

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U I WAS WORKING FOR A GHOST TOUR

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COMPANY THAT WANTED TO DO H.H.

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HOLMES TOURS AND THERE WAS NOT

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ENOUGH MATERIAL OUT TO FILL A

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THREE-HOUR TOUR SO I STARTED

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GOING INTO THE NEWSPAPER

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ARCHIVES.

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AND FOUND OUT HOW MUCH DATA THAT

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IS BURIED IN THE LEGAL ARCHIVES

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THAT NO ONE HAS BEEN LOOKING AT.

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>> WHAT HAVE YOU DISCOVERED THAT

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HAVE NOT BEEN COVERED?

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DEVIL IN THE WHITE CITY?

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WHAT DID YOU LEARN?

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>> I LEARNED HE WAS A SWINDLER

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AND A LOT OF THE THINGS WE THINK

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WE KNOW ABOUT HIM ARE THINGS

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THAT COME OUT OF TABLOIDS.

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A LOT OF IS WHAT WE WOULD CALL

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FAKES NEWS IT WAS HALF REPORTED

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NEWS.

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>> AND GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF

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SOMETHING THAT WAS FAKE NEWS

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COME TO BE ACCEPTED AS GOSPEL?

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>> THE FACT THAT HE OWNED A

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HOTEL.

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HE SAID HE WAS STARTING A HOTEL

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BUT IT WAS NEVER COMPLETED AND

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OPEN FOR BUSINESSES THE IDEA HE

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WAS KILLING PATRONS IN ONE IS

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ONE THAT A NEW YORK TABLOID

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DREAMED UP.

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>> DO YOU AGREE THAT HE WAS

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KILLING PEOPLE?

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>> SURE.

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NOT THOSE PARTICULAR PEOPLE BUT

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9 OR 10 PEOPLE.

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>> 9 OR 10 PEOPLE SOME PEOPLE

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SAY 27 AND SOME PEOPLE SAY 200.

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>> HE CONFESSED TO 27 BEFORE HE

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WAS EXECUTED BUT SEVERAL PEOPLE

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THAT HE CONFESSED TO KILLING

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WERE ALIVE.

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AND PEOPLE STARTED SAYING 200

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THE NUMBER CAME OUT OF NOWHERE.

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>> WHO WERE THE NINE PEOPLE THAT

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YOU'RE CONVINCED HE KILLED NINE?

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>> I SAY NINE.

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THERE WAS BENJAMIN, THE ONE MAN

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HE WAS HANGED FOR KILLING.

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AND THREE CHILDREN WHO KNEW TOO

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MUCH AND A COUPLE GIRLFRIENDS

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WHO KNEW TOO MUCH AND ONE OF

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THEIR DAUGHTERS AS WELL.

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ROBERT LATIMER?

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>> ROBERT LATIMER WAS A JANITOR

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OF HOLMES WHO HE CONFESSED TO

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MURDERING EVEN THOUGH HE WAS

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ALIVE AND WELL.

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>> HE TOLD NEWSPAPERS THAT

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HOLMES NEVER HANGED IN

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PHILADELPHIA AND HE CHEATED THE

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GALLOS AND HE HOW COULD --

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WHAT IS THE THEORY THAT EXPLAINS

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HOW HOLMES MIGHT HAVE DONE THAT?

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>> LATIMER SAID HE UNCOVERED A

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STORY THAT WHAT HAPPENED THEY

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GOTTEN A CORPSE AHEAD OF TIME

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AND THEY PROPERRED HIM UP AND

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THAT WHAT THEY HANGED AND HIS

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DESCRIPTION OF THE HANGING DID

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NOT MATCH WHAT WERE PUBLISHED AT

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THE TIME.

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AND HE DID WANT TO BE BURIED IN

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A LARGE BLOCK OF CONCRETE.

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>> AND A FEW MORE DETAILS ON THE

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CONCRETE IN THE GRAVE.

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WHAT EXACTLY DID HE ASK FOR?

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AND WHY DID HE GET IT?

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>> WELL, THAT IS A GOOD

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QUESTION.

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HIS LAWYER FELT LIKE HE HAD NOT

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DONE ENOUGH FOR HIM AND DID NOT

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WANT TO HELP HIM GET THE REQUEST

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WAS TO BE BURIED IN A WAY THAT

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ANYBODY COULD DIG UP HIS BODY

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AND BEING DISSECTED.

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HE DID NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN.

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HE WANTED ALL OF THIS CONCRETE

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SO NOBODY COULD STEAL HIS BODY.

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>> HE HAD HIS CASKET FILLED WITH

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CONCRETE BURIED 10 FEET DEEP AND

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MORE CONCRETE ON TOP OF THAT.

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SO HIS GRANDCHILDREN REQUESTED

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THE EXHUMING, HOW COME?

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>> TO PUT THE RUMORS TO REST TO

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FIND OUT ONCE AND FOR ALL.

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I KEEP SAYING IF IT IS HIM WE

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CAN SHAVE THE CONCRETE DOWN AND

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MAKE HIM LOOK LIKE HANS SOLO.

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>> HE HAS BEEN EXHUMED?

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>> I'VE NOT SURE YET.

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I KNOW THERE WAS DIGGING BUT I

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DO NOT HAVE FURTHER DETAILS.

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>> THERE WERE REPORTS OF A

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BACKHOE DOING DIGGING.

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>> THERE'S A FIRM IS ISSUED AND

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DIGGING IS DONE THAT IS ALL I

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CAN TELL YOU.

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>> HOW --

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REMIND US HOW WE ENDED UP IN

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PENNSYLVANIA FOR THAT TRIAL?

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WHEN HE HAD DONE MOST OF HIS

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DAMAGE HERE IN THE CITY?

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>> WELL, THEY NEVER MANAGED TO

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PIN MUCH ON HIM IN CHICAGO BUT

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THEY WERE ABLE TO CATCH HIM

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KILLING BENJAMIN WHICH HE DID AS

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A SCHEME TO GET HIS INSURANCE

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MONEY.

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>> WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CASTLE?

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THE HOTEL THAT YOU SAY NEVER

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WAS?

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>> WELL THERE WAS A BUILDING

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THERE IT STARTED OUT AS A TWO

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STOREY BUILDING AND HE ADDED A

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THIRD STOREY THAT HE PRETEPIDDED

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WAS GOING TO BE A HOTEL.

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THERE WERE A COUPLE OF FIRES BUT

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UNDER OPERATION UNDER DIFFERENT

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BRANDING UP UNTIL 1938 WHEN THE

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FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BOUGHT IT.

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AND THEY TORE IT DOWN IN THE

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LATE 30s.

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>> AND IT'S NOW PART OF A POST

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OFFICE?

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>> THERE IS A POST OFFICE NEXT

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TO THE SPACE.

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OVERLAP BETWEEN THE TWO.

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>> NOW, ARE THE DESCRIPTIONS OF

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THE BUILDING AS REPORTED IN

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TERMS OF THE SECRET HALLWAYS AND

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THE SOUNDPROOF ROOMS?

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>> SOME OF THEM ARE.

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THERE WAS A HIDDEN CHAMBER

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BETWEEN THE FIRST AND THE SECOND

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FLOOR AND A VAULT THAT WAS

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SOUNDPROOF AND A COUPLE OF

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HIDDEN CHAMBERS AND TRAPDOORS IN

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THE BATHROOMS.

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>> AND HE IS SAID HE WAS BORN

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WITH A DEVIL IN HIM.

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AFTER ALL THE RESEARCH AND

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WRITING YOU HAVE DONE WHAT ARE

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YOUR INSIGHTS INTO H.H. HOLMES?

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THAT WAS NOT HIS NAME.

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>> RIGHT.

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HE OPERATED UNDER SEVERAL NAMES.

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I THINK THE MAN COULD NOT STOP

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LYING FOR THE LIFE OF HIM.

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AND HE BECAME THIS AMERICAN TALL

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TALE FIGURE AND THE LAST COUPLE

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OF MONTHS IN PRISON HE DID NOT

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HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO THAN

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SENDING DETECTIVES ON WILD GOOSE

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CHASES AND THERE WAS SOMETHING

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ABOUT THE GUY THAT SPARKED

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PEOPLE'S IMAGINATIONS.

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AND THE NEW POLICE CHIEF CAME UP

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WITH WEIRD IDEAS AND AT THE LAST

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COUPLE MONTHS OF HIS LIFE HE

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STARTED TO ENJOY THAT AND SAID

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YEP I DID ALL OF THOSE THINGS

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EVEN THINGS THAT THEY HAVE

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PROVEN THAT HE COULD NOT HAVE

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DONE.

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>> YOU GAVE THE VERSIONS WHAT IS

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THE MOST COMMON THAT YOU

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RECEIVED ABOUT HO H.H. HOLMES

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HOLE?

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>> IS WHERE WAS THE MURDER

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CASTLE?

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IT IS A VACANT LOT RIGHT NOW.

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>> HOW SOON AFTER THE CRIMES

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WERE COMMITTED THERE THE NINE OR

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SO THAT YOU THINK MAY HAVE

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HAPPENED HOW SOON DID PEOPLE

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FIND OUT WHAT HAD BEEN GOING IN

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THE BUILDING?

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>> IT WAS A COUPLE OF YEARS.

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PEOPLE KNEW THAT H.H. HOLMES WAS

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UP TO SHADY BUSINESS IN CHICAGO

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HE WAS SUED 60 TIMES THAT I KNOW

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OF.

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MOSTLY FOR NOT PAYING BILLS BUT

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GOOD AT COVERING TRACKS AS FAR

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AS KILLING PEOPLE AND TELLING

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RELATIVES THEY GOT MARRIED AND

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WENT TO EUROPE.

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>> THERE IS A BUSINESS ABOUT

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HAVING HIM SOLD SKELETONS?

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>> THERE WAS A GUY THAT SHOWED

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UP WHEN THEY WERE INVESTIGATING

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AND SAID I USED TO BUY DEAD

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BODIES FROM THIS GUY TO SELL TO

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MEDICAL SCHOOLS BUT IT LOOKED

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LIKE IT WAS A GUY WHO WOULD SAY

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WHATEVER THE POLICE WANTED TO IF

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THEY POURED ENOUGH WHISKEY DOWN

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HIS THROAT.

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WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE

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AWAY FROM THE BOOK?

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>> HOW STORIES EMBED IN OUR

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CONSCIOUSNESS AND HOW WE

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REMEMBER PARTS OF STORIES.

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AND HOW MYTHS GROW OVER TIME HOW

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THE STORY EVOLVED AND HOW WE

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REMEMBER IT NOW.

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>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

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GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.