H.H. HOLMES IS CONSIDERED
AMERICA'S FIRST SERIAL KILLER.
HE BUILT A HOTEL OF HORRORS TO
LURE AND KILL GUESTS DURING THE
CHICAGO 1893 WORLD'S FAIR.
ACCORDING TO AUTHORS HIS MURDER
CASTLE FEATURED A MAZE OF SECRET
HALLWAYS, FALSE FLOORS,
TRAPDOORS AND SOUNDPROOF ROOMS.
HE WOULD SEND POISON GAS THROUGH
THE VENTS TO ASPHYXIATE HIS
GUESTS.
HOLMES SENT THE BODIES DOWN
SHUTES TO THE MAKESHIFT MORGUE
TO SELL THE SKELETONS TO MEDICAL
SCHOOLS.
HE WAS PUT TO DEATH FOR KILLING
ONE MAN BUT WAS HOLMES HANGED?
RUMORS ABOUND THAT HE CHEATED
DEATH AND ESCAPED TO SOUTH
AMERICA.
THE DECENTENTS HAD HIS BODY
EXHUMED AND PUT THIS MYSTERY TO
REST.
HERE IS ADAM SELZER, HIS NEW
BOOK IS, "H.H. HOLMES: THE TRUE
HISTORY OF THE WHITE CITY DEVIL"
AND ADAM WELCOME TO "CHICAGO
TONIGHT."
FIRST OF ALL HOW DID YOU GET
INTERESTED IN H.H. HOLMES?
U I WAS WORKING FOR A GHOST TOUR
COMPANY THAT WANTED TO DO H.H.
HOLMES TOURS AND THERE WAS NOT
ENOUGH MATERIAL OUT TO FILL A
THREE-HOUR TOUR SO I STARTED
GOING INTO THE NEWSPAPER
ARCHIVES.
AND FOUND OUT HOW MUCH DATA THAT
IS BURIED IN THE LEGAL ARCHIVES
THAT NO ONE HAS BEEN LOOKING AT.
>> WHAT HAVE YOU DISCOVERED THAT
HAVE NOT BEEN COVERED?
DEVIL IN THE WHITE CITY?
WHAT DID YOU LEARN?
>> I LEARNED HE WAS A SWINDLER
AND A LOT OF THE THINGS WE THINK
WE KNOW ABOUT HIM ARE THINGS
THAT COME OUT OF TABLOIDS.
A LOT OF IS WHAT WE WOULD CALL
FAKES NEWS IT WAS HALF REPORTED
NEWS.
>> AND GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF
SOMETHING THAT WAS FAKE NEWS
COME TO BE ACCEPTED AS GOSPEL?
>> THE FACT THAT HE OWNED A
HOTEL.
HE SAID HE WAS STARTING A HOTEL
BUT IT WAS NEVER COMPLETED AND
OPEN FOR BUSINESSES THE IDEA HE
WAS KILLING PATRONS IN ONE IS
ONE THAT A NEW YORK TABLOID
DREAMED UP.
>> DO YOU AGREE THAT HE WAS
KILLING PEOPLE?
>> SURE.
NOT THOSE PARTICULAR PEOPLE BUT
9 OR 10 PEOPLE.
>> 9 OR 10 PEOPLE SOME PEOPLE
SAY 27 AND SOME PEOPLE SAY 200.
>> HE CONFESSED TO 27 BEFORE HE
WAS EXECUTED BUT SEVERAL PEOPLE
THAT HE CONFESSED TO KILLING
WERE ALIVE.
AND PEOPLE STARTED SAYING 200
THE NUMBER CAME OUT OF NOWHERE.
>> WHO WERE THE NINE PEOPLE THAT
YOU'RE CONVINCED HE KILLED NINE?
>> I SAY NINE.
THERE WAS BENJAMIN, THE ONE MAN
HE WAS HANGED FOR KILLING.
AND THREE CHILDREN WHO KNEW TOO
MUCH AND A COUPLE GIRLFRIENDS
WHO KNEW TOO MUCH AND ONE OF
THEIR DAUGHTERS AS WELL.
ROBERT LATIMER?
>> ROBERT LATIMER WAS A JANITOR
OF HOLMES WHO HE CONFESSED TO
MURDERING EVEN THOUGH HE WAS
ALIVE AND WELL.
>> HE TOLD NEWSPAPERS THAT
HOLMES NEVER HANGED IN
PHILADELPHIA AND HE CHEATED THE
GALLOS AND HE HOW COULD --
WHAT IS THE THEORY THAT EXPLAINS
HOW HOLMES MIGHT HAVE DONE THAT?
>> LATIMER SAID HE UNCOVERED A
STORY THAT WHAT HAPPENED THEY
GOTTEN A CORPSE AHEAD OF TIME
AND THEY PROPERRED HIM UP AND
THAT WHAT THEY HANGED AND HIS
DESCRIPTION OF THE HANGING DID
NOT MATCH WHAT WERE PUBLISHED AT
THE TIME.
AND HE DID WANT TO BE BURIED IN
A LARGE BLOCK OF CONCRETE.
>> AND A FEW MORE DETAILS ON THE
CONCRETE IN THE GRAVE.
WHAT EXACTLY DID HE ASK FOR?
AND WHY DID HE GET IT?
>> WELL, THAT IS A GOOD
QUESTION.
HIS LAWYER FELT LIKE HE HAD NOT
DONE ENOUGH FOR HIM AND DID NOT
WANT TO HELP HIM GET THE REQUEST
WAS TO BE BURIED IN A WAY THAT
ANYBODY COULD DIG UP HIS BODY
AND BEING DISSECTED.
HE DID NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN.
HE WANTED ALL OF THIS CONCRETE
SO NOBODY COULD STEAL HIS BODY.
>> HE HAD HIS CASKET FILLED WITH
CONCRETE BURIED 10 FEET DEEP AND
MORE CONCRETE ON TOP OF THAT.
SO HIS GRANDCHILDREN REQUESTED
THE EXHUMING, HOW COME?
>> TO PUT THE RUMORS TO REST TO
FIND OUT ONCE AND FOR ALL.
I KEEP SAYING IF IT IS HIM WE
CAN SHAVE THE CONCRETE DOWN AND
MAKE HIM LOOK LIKE HANS SOLO.
>> HE HAS BEEN EXHUMED?
>> I'VE NOT SURE YET.
I KNOW THERE WAS DIGGING BUT I
DO NOT HAVE FURTHER DETAILS.
>> THERE WERE REPORTS OF A
BACKHOE DOING DIGGING.
>> THERE'S A FIRM IS ISSUED AND
DIGGING IS DONE THAT IS ALL I
CAN TELL YOU.
>> HOW --
REMIND US HOW WE ENDED UP IN
PENNSYLVANIA FOR THAT TRIAL?
WHEN HE HAD DONE MOST OF HIS
DAMAGE HERE IN THE CITY?
>> WELL, THEY NEVER MANAGED TO
PIN MUCH ON HIM IN CHICAGO BUT
THEY WERE ABLE TO CATCH HIM
KILLING BENJAMIN WHICH HE DID AS
A SCHEME TO GET HIS INSURANCE
MONEY.
>> WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CASTLE?
THE HOTEL THAT YOU SAY NEVER
WAS?
>> WELL THERE WAS A BUILDING
THERE IT STARTED OUT AS A TWO
STOREY BUILDING AND HE ADDED A
THIRD STOREY THAT HE PRETEPIDDED
WAS GOING TO BE A HOTEL.
THERE WERE A COUPLE OF FIRES BUT
UNDER OPERATION UNDER DIFFERENT
BRANDING UP UNTIL 1938 WHEN THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BOUGHT IT.
AND THEY TORE IT DOWN IN THE
LATE 30s.
>> AND IT'S NOW PART OF A POST
OFFICE?
>> THERE IS A POST OFFICE NEXT
TO THE SPACE.
OVERLAP BETWEEN THE TWO.
>> NOW, ARE THE DESCRIPTIONS OF
THE BUILDING AS REPORTED IN
TERMS OF THE SECRET HALLWAYS AND
THE SOUNDPROOF ROOMS?
>> SOME OF THEM ARE.
THERE WAS A HIDDEN CHAMBER
BETWEEN THE FIRST AND THE SECOND
FLOOR AND A VAULT THAT WAS
SOUNDPROOF AND A COUPLE OF
HIDDEN CHAMBERS AND TRAPDOORS IN
THE BATHROOMS.
>> AND HE IS SAID HE WAS BORN
WITH A DEVIL IN HIM.
AFTER ALL THE RESEARCH AND
WRITING YOU HAVE DONE WHAT ARE
YOUR INSIGHTS INTO H.H. HOLMES?
THAT WAS NOT HIS NAME.
>> RIGHT.
HE OPERATED UNDER SEVERAL NAMES.
I THINK THE MAN COULD NOT STOP
LYING FOR THE LIFE OF HIM.
AND HE BECAME THIS AMERICAN TALL
TALE FIGURE AND THE LAST COUPLE
OF MONTHS IN PRISON HE DID NOT
HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO THAN
SENDING DETECTIVES ON WILD GOOSE
CHASES AND THERE WAS SOMETHING
ABOUT THE GUY THAT SPARKED
PEOPLE'S IMAGINATIONS.
AND THE NEW POLICE CHIEF CAME UP
WITH WEIRD IDEAS AND AT THE LAST
COUPLE MONTHS OF HIS LIFE HE
STARTED TO ENJOY THAT AND SAID
YEP I DID ALL OF THOSE THINGS
EVEN THINGS THAT THEY HAVE
PROVEN THAT HE COULD NOT HAVE
DONE.
>> YOU GAVE THE VERSIONS WHAT IS
THE MOST COMMON THAT YOU
RECEIVED ABOUT HO H.H. HOLMES
HOLE?
>> IS WHERE WAS THE MURDER
CASTLE?
IT IS A VACANT LOT RIGHT NOW.
>> HOW SOON AFTER THE CRIMES
WERE COMMITTED THERE THE NINE OR
SO THAT YOU THINK MAY HAVE
HAPPENED HOW SOON DID PEOPLE
FIND OUT WHAT HAD BEEN GOING IN
THE BUILDING?
>> IT WAS A COUPLE OF YEARS.
PEOPLE KNEW THAT H.H. HOLMES WAS
UP TO SHADY BUSINESS IN CHICAGO
HE WAS SUED 60 TIMES THAT I KNOW
OF.
MOSTLY FOR NOT PAYING BILLS BUT
GOOD AT COVERING TRACKS AS FAR
AS KILLING PEOPLE AND TELLING
RELATIVES THEY GOT MARRIED AND
WENT TO EUROPE.
>> THERE IS A BUSINESS ABOUT
HAVING HIM SOLD SKELETONS?
>> THERE WAS A GUY THAT SHOWED
UP WHEN THEY WERE INVESTIGATING
AND SAID I USED TO BUY DEAD
BODIES FROM THIS GUY TO SELL TO
MEDICAL SCHOOLS BUT IT LOOKED
LIKE IT WAS A GUY WHO WOULD SAY
WHATEVER THE POLICE WANTED TO IF
THEY POURED ENOUGH WHISKEY DOWN
HIS THROAT.
WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE
AWAY FROM THE BOOK?
>> HOW STORIES EMBED IN OUR
CONSCIOUSNESS AND HOW WE
REMEMBER PARTS OF STORIES.
AND HOW MYTHS GROW OVER TIME HOW
THE STORY EVOLVED AND HOW WE
REMEMBER IT NOW.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.