1
00:00:08,033 --> 00:00:13,033
TO YOU.

2
00:00:08,166 --> 00:00:13,966
>> Phil: THANK YOU AMANDA.

3
00:00:08,833 --> 00:00:14,700
NOW, OVER TO EDDIE ARRUZA WITH

4
00:00:13,033 --> 00:00:15,400
A LEGAL VIEW OF TODAY'S

5
00:00:13,966 --> 00:00:19,233
VERDICT.

6
00:00:14,700 --> 00:00:20,333
>> Eddie: IT TOOK THE JURY IN

7
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:21,233
THE VAN DYKE CASE TO TAKE SEVEN

8
00:00:19,233 --> 00:00:22,233
HOURS TO REACH IT'S VERDICT.

9
00:00:20,333 --> 00:00:22,933
AS WE HEARD, THE JURORS WHO

10
00:00:21,233 --> 00:00:25,033
SPOKE TO THE MEDIA AFTER FOUND

11
00:00:22,233 --> 00:00:25,766
VAN DYKE'S TESTIMONY ON THE

12
00:00:22,933 --> 00:00:28,266
WITNESS STAND REHEARSED AND

13
00:00:25,033 --> 00:00:29,933
HARD TO ACCEPT.

14
00:00:25,766 --> 00:00:33,400
ESPECIALLY AFTER WHAT ONE JUROR

15
00:00:28,266 --> 00:00:34,500
SAID WAS MANY, MANY FEELINGS OF

16
00:00:29,933 --> 00:00:36,966
THAT NOW INFAMOUS DASHCAM

17
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:40,200
VIDEO, SHOWING LAQUAN McDONALD

18
00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:41,266
BEING SHOT 16 TIMES.

19
00:00:36,966 --> 00:00:43,366
>> WE THE JURY FIND THE

20
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:48,966
DEFENDANT, JASON VAN DYKE,

21
00:00:41,266 --> 00:00:49,933
GUILTY OF SECOND-DEGREE MURDER.

22
00:00:43,366 --> 00:00:50,733
WE THE JURY FIND THE DEFENDANT,

23
00:00:48,966 --> 00:00:51,333
JASON VAN DYKE, GUILTY OF

24
00:00:49,933 --> 00:00:52,866
AGGRAVATED BATTERY WITH A

25
00:00:50,733 --> 00:00:56,333
FIREARM, FIRST SHOT.

26
00:00:51,333 --> 00:00:57,366
WE THE JURY FIND THE DEFENDANT

27
00:00:52,866 --> 00:01:01,900
JASON VAN DYKE GUILTY OF

28
00:00:56,333 --> 00:01:02,900
AGGRAVATED BATTERY WITH A

29
00:00:57,366 --> 00:01:04,000
FIREARM, SECOND SHOT.

30
00:01:01,900 --> 00:01:05,000
>> Eddie: JASON VAN DYKE

31
00:01:02,900 --> 00:01:06,833
REMAINED EXPRESSIONLESS AS ONE

32
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,866
GUILTY VERDICT AFTER ANOTHER

33
00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,333
WAS READ TONIGHT, WITH HIS BILL

34
00:01:06,833 --> 00:01:10,333
REVOKED, HE IS IN JAIL, A

35
00:01:07,866 --> 00:01:13,600
CONVICTED FELON.

36
00:01:08,333 --> 00:01:20,100
>>> JOINING US WITH THE LEGAL

37
00:01:10,333 --> 00:01:21,266
ANALYSIS OF THE JURY'S DECISION

38
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:21,966
IS RICHARD KLING, CHICAGO-KENT

39
00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:22,633
COLLEGE OF LAW AND A DEFENSE

40
00:01:21,266 --> 00:01:25,300
ATTORNEY.HE REGULARLY GIVES

41
00:01:21,966 --> 00:01:26,666
LECTURES TO LAWYERS ON THE

42
00:01:22,633 --> 00:01:28,066
ILLINOIS RULE OF EVIDENCE.

43
00:01:25,300 --> 00:01:29,233
NANCY MARDER IS A PROFESSOR AT

44
00:01:26,666 --> 00:01:33,666
CHICAGO-KENT COLLEGE OF LAW WHO

45
00:01:28,066 --> 00:01:34,766
IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE JUSTICE

46
00:01:29,233 --> 00:01:35,533
JOHN PAUL JURY CENTER.

47
00:01:33,666 --> 00:01:37,166
SHE HAS WRITTEN AND TAUGHT

48
00:01:34,766 --> 00:01:37,866
EXTENSIVELY ABOUT JUROR

49
00:01:35,533 --> 00:01:40,033
QUESTIONS, AND JURY

50
00:01:37,166 --> 00:01:41,966
DELIBERATIONS.

51
00:01:37,866 --> 00:01:43,566
AND, SHARONE MITCHELL, ILLINOIS

52
00:01:40,033 --> 00:01:45,366
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT PROJECT THAT

53
00:01:41,966 --> 00:01:47,100
SHE RECENTLY SERVED AS A TRIAL

54
00:01:43,566 --> 00:01:48,233
ATTORNEY IN THE COOK COUNTY

55
00:01:45,366 --> 00:01:49,000
COURT OFFICE.

56
00:01:47,100 --> 00:01:49,633
TAKE YOU ALL FOR BEING WITH US

57
00:01:48,233 --> 00:01:52,033
TONIGHT.

58
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,866
LET ME JUST ASK A QUICK

59
00:01:49,633 --> 00:01:53,500
QUESTION AND WERE ANY OF YOU

60
00:01:52,033 --> 00:01:58,166
SURPRISED BY ANY OF THE

61
00:01:52,866 --> 00:01:59,700
VERDICTS TODAY?

62
00:01:53,500 --> 00:02:01,733
>> NO.

63
00:01:58,166 --> 00:02:02,833
>> Eddie: ANY SURPRISES AT ALL?

64
00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:07,600
SHOCKING REVELATIONS?

65
00:02:01,733 --> 00:02:11,466
>> Guest: NO.

66
00:02:02,833 --> 00:02:13,266
>> Eddie: MATT MASTERSON DID A

67
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:14,000
GREAT JOB AT LAYING IT ALL UP

68
00:02:11,466 --> 00:02:14,700
BUT THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE

69
00:02:13,266 --> 00:02:16,466
CONVICTION TODAY, SECOND-DEGREE

70
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,433
MURDER AND THEN ALL OF THOSE

71
00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:20,100
ASSAULT CHARGES.

72
00:02:16,466 --> 00:02:21,133
TELUS, THE DEGREE OF

73
00:02:17,433 --> 00:02:22,133
SERIOUSNESS THERE.

74
00:02:20,100 --> 00:02:24,266
>> Guest: AS STRANGE AS IT

75
00:02:21,133 --> 00:02:25,466
SOUNDS, THE AGGRAVATED BATTERY

76
00:02:22,133 --> 00:02:26,266
WITH A FIREARM IS MORE SERIOUS

77
00:02:24,266 --> 00:02:27,966
THAN SECOND-DEGREE MURDER.

78
00:02:25,466 --> 00:02:29,233
AGGRAVATED BATTERY WITH A

79
00:02:26,266 --> 00:02:29,866
FIREARM IS PUNISHABLE WITH NOT

80
00:02:27,966 --> 00:02:33,933
LESS THAN SIX YEARS AND NO MORE

81
00:02:29,233 --> 00:02:35,033
THAN 30.

82
00:02:29,866 --> 00:02:35,633
IT IS NOT FISSIONABLE.

83
00:02:33,933 --> 00:02:40,800
>> Eddie: A MINIMUM OF 6 FOR

84
00:02:35,033 --> 00:02:42,033
EACH COUNT?

85
00:02:35,633 --> 00:02:42,766
>> Guest: YES WITH 80 PERCENT

86
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:47,333
SERVICE.

87
00:02:42,033 --> 00:02:48,100
SECOND-DEGREE MURDER IS 4 TO 20

88
00:02:42,766 --> 00:02:49,566
IN THE PENITENTIARY BUT IT IS

89
00:02:47,333 --> 00:02:50,300
PROBATIONAL.

90
00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:51,900
THE BOTTOM LINE IS AGGRAVATED

91
00:02:49,566 --> 00:02:52,466
BATTERY WITH A FIREARM IS MORE

92
00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:53,233
SERIOUS THAN IT SECOND-DEGREE

93
00:02:51,900 --> 00:02:54,166
MURDER.

94
00:02:52,466 --> 00:02:55,433
HAVING DONE RESEARCH IN THE LAW

95
00:02:53,233 --> 00:02:56,033
AND THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS,

96
00:02:54,166 --> 00:02:59,500
WHAT WILL PROBABLY HAPPEN AS A

97
00:02:55,433 --> 00:03:00,533
COUPLE OF THINGS.

98
00:02:56,033 --> 00:03:01,733
NO. 1 BECAUSE THE AGGRAVATED

99
00:02:59,500 --> 00:03:02,666
BATTERY IS MORE SERIOUS THAN

100
00:03:00,533 --> 00:03:03,433
THE SECOND-DEGREE MURDER, THE

101
00:03:01,733 --> 00:03:05,800
SECOND-DEGREE MURDER WILL

102
00:03:02,666 --> 00:03:11,600
PROBABLY MERGE INTO THE

103
00:03:03,433 --> 00:03:12,833
AGGRAVATED BATTERY AND THE LESS

104
00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:13,933
SERIOUS INTO THE MORE SERIES.

105
00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,100
AND THEN SECONDLY, A QUESTION

106
00:03:12,833 --> 00:03:15,800
WEATHER THEY SHOULD BE SERVED

107
00:03:13,933 --> 00:03:17,466
CONSECUTIVELY OR CONCURRENTLY

108
00:03:15,100 --> 00:03:20,666
HEAR THEIR IS A BODY OF LAW

109
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:21,800
THAT IF YOU GO BANG, BANG,

110
00:03:17,466 --> 00:03:24,166
BANG, BANG, RIGHT IN A ROW THAT

111
00:03:20,666 --> 00:03:24,933
IS ONE ACT, ONE OFFENSE, ONE

112
00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,700
OFFENSE WHICH WOULD NOT BE

113
00:03:24,166 --> 00:03:26,933
CONSECUTIVE.

114
00:03:24,933 --> 00:03:27,866
>> Eddie: THERE IS SOME DOUBT

115
00:03:25,700 --> 00:03:28,833
AS PROFESSOR KLING WAS SAYING

116
00:03:26,933 --> 00:03:33,200
IN THE LEGAL COMMUNITY AS TO

117
00:03:27,866 --> 00:03:33,933
WEATHER IT SHOULD BE SERVED ONE

118
00:03:28,833 --> 00:03:35,666
ACT OR 16 SEPARATE OXFORD WHY

119
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:38,633
SUN-TABULOUS?

120
00:03:33,933 --> 00:03:39,133
>> Guest: THE LAW.

121
00:03:35,666 --> 00:03:40,133
THERE ISN'T CLEAR LAW ON THE

122
00:03:38,633 --> 00:03:41,433
ISSUE.

123
00:03:39,133 --> 00:03:42,600
THERE IS A MULTIPLE STRANDS OF

124
00:03:40,133 --> 00:03:44,633
LAW AND THERE ARE LOTS OF

125
00:03:41,433 --> 00:03:48,600
PETITIONERS THAT ARE GOING BACK

126
00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:50,800
AND FORTH IN THIS QUESTION.

127
00:03:44,633 --> 00:03:51,800
>> Eddie: NANCY MARDER IS

128
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:56,866
SOMEONE WHO IS VERY FAMILIAR

129
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:57,500
WITH JURY INSTRUCTIONS.

130
00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:58,333
WHAT WAS SIGNIFICANT AT THE

131
00:03:56,866 --> 00:03:59,100
LAST MINUTE.

132
00:03:57,500 --> 00:03:59,866
THE JUDGE GIVING THEM THE

133
00:03:58,333 --> 00:04:01,833
OPTION OF SECOND-DEGREE MURDER?

134
00:03:59,100 --> 00:04:04,600
>> Guest: I THINK IT WAS SO

135
00:03:59,866 --> 00:04:07,900
THAT THEY COULD REACH AN

136
00:04:01,833 --> 00:04:08,933
ACCOMMODATION, A VERDICT AND

137
00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:09,700
THAT THEY ALL COULD AGREE ON.

138
00:04:07,900 --> 00:04:10,566
>> Eddie: DO BELIEVE THAT

139
00:04:08,933 --> 00:04:12,900
FIRST-DEGREE MURDER WAS

140
00:04:09,700 --> 00:04:13,466
SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULD NOT

141
00:04:10,566 --> 00:04:15,000
AGREE ON IF THAT WAS THEIR ONLY

142
00:04:12,900 --> 00:04:15,666
OPTION?

143
00:04:13,466 --> 00:04:16,500
>> Guest: THERE IS A

144
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:22,066
POSSIBILITY.

145
00:04:15,666 --> 00:04:23,133
YOU WANT TO COME TO SOMETHING

146
00:04:16,500 --> 00:04:23,966
THAT IS MORE WITHIN.

147
00:04:22,066 --> 00:04:25,100
>> Eddie: WHEN THEY STARTED THE

148
00:04:23,133 --> 00:04:26,133
DELIBERATIONS, THE JURORS WHO

149
00:04:23,966 --> 00:04:26,733
SPOKE OUT TODAY SAID THAT SEVEN

150
00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:33,600
IMMEDIATELY SAID THAT THEY WERE

151
00:04:26,133 --> 00:04:34,433
READY TO CONVICT.

152
00:04:26,733 --> 00:04:34,933
TO WERE SAYING NOT GUILTY AND

153
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,800
THEN THREE OTHERS WERE

154
00:04:34,433 --> 00:04:36,966
UNDECIDED.

155
00:04:34,933 --> 00:04:38,633
AGAIN, IS THE SECOND-DEGREE

156
00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,166
MURDER CHARGE THAT OPTION WHAT

157
00:04:36,966 --> 00:04:40,000
BROUGHT THEM TOGETHER DO YOU

158
00:04:38,633 --> 00:04:41,000
BELIEVE?

159
00:04:39,166 --> 00:04:48,266
>> Guest: A COUPLE OF THINGS.

160
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:49,000
SECOND-DEGREE MURDER, YOU HAVE

161
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:49,700
TO PROVE 1ST DEGREE MURDER AND

162
00:04:48,266 --> 00:04:50,400
THEN THE DEFENSE HAD TO PROVE

163
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,333
MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES, IN

164
00:04:49,700 --> 00:04:51,966
THIS CASE, SELF-DEFENSE.

165
00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,700
SECONDLY, THE LAW OF ILLINOIS

166
00:04:51,333 --> 00:04:54,766
IS QUITE RARE.

167
00:04:51,966 --> 00:04:55,800
IF THERE'S ANY EVIDENCE OF 2ND

168
00:04:53,700 --> 00:05:04,233
DEGREE MURDER AND SELF-DEFENSE

169
00:04:54,766 --> 00:05:05,233
AND THE DEFENSE REQUESTED IT,

170
00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:06,000
THE JUDGE HAD NO CHOICE.

171
00:05:04,233 --> 00:05:06,900
PRESUMABLY THE DEFENSE

172
00:05:05,233 --> 00:05:07,600
REQUESTED THAT THE JURY BE

173
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,366
INSTRUCTED ON SECOND-DEGREE

174
00:05:06,900 --> 00:05:08,666
MURDER.

175
00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,366
IF THAT IS THE CASE THAT IS THE

176
00:05:08,366 --> 00:05:09,800
CASE.

177
00:05:08,666 --> 00:05:10,566
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE WAS AN

178
00:05:09,366 --> 00:05:11,133
ACCOMMODATION.

179
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,300
IF I WAS A DEFENSE LAWYER, I

180
00:05:10,566 --> 00:05:13,300
WOULD BE WRITTEN BY

181
00:05:11,133 --> 00:05:13,900
SECOND-DEGREE MURDER BECAUSE I

182
00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:14,533
WOULD SEE IT AS A COMPROMISE

183
00:05:13,300 --> 00:05:16,266
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND,

184
00:05:13,900 --> 00:05:17,300
FIRST-DEGREE MURDER WOULD

185
00:05:14,533 --> 00:05:18,366
REQUIRE A MANDATORY MINIMUM OF

186
00:05:16,266 --> 00:05:18,833
45 YEARS IN THE PENITENTIARY.

187
00:05:17,300 --> 00:05:23,666
THAT IS A LOT OF TIME TO GAMBLE

188
00:05:18,366 --> 00:05:24,500
AWAY.

189
00:05:18,833 --> 00:05:25,266
>> Eddie: SHARONE MITCHELL, ONE

190
00:05:23,666 --> 00:05:26,266
OF THE THINGS I SAID TODAY IS

191
00:05:24,500 --> 00:05:27,800
THAT THEY FOUND JASON VAN

192
00:05:25,266 --> 00:05:28,966
DYKE'S TESTIMONY ON THE STAND

193
00:05:26,266 --> 00:05:29,633
TO BE REHEARSED.

194
00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,700
OBVIOUSLY ANYONE WHO TAKES THE

195
00:05:28,966 --> 00:05:34,633
STAND IN THEIR OWN DEFENSE

196
00:05:29,633 --> 00:05:35,333
ESPECIALLY FOR A MURDER CHARGE

197
00:05:30,700 --> 00:05:36,100
IS REHEARSED BY THE DEFENSE

198
00:05:34,633 --> 00:05:38,366
ATTORNEYS.

199
00:05:35,333 --> 00:05:42,000
WHY DID THE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS

200
00:05:36,100 --> 00:05:42,500
IN THE CASE SEE THAT JASON VAN

201
00:05:38,366 --> 00:05:43,600
DYKE MIGHT NOT COME OFF AS

202
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,933
CREDIBLE?

203
00:05:42,500 --> 00:05:46,033
>> Guest: IT IS DIFFICULT.

204
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,000
AT TIME HE REMEMBERED THINGS

205
00:05:44,933 --> 00:05:48,633
VERY VIVIDLY.

206
00:05:46,033 --> 00:05:54,400
AT OTHER TIMES HE DID NOT

207
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:54,900
REMEMBER THINGS VIVIDLY.

208
00:05:48,633 --> 00:05:55,766
I THINK JURORS WANT CONSISTENCY

209
00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,100
AND HONESTY.

210
00:05:54,900 --> 00:06:03,266
I BELIEVE THAT IN THIS CASE,

211
00:05:55,766 --> 00:06:04,433
THE JURY DID NOT SEE A PERSON

212
00:05:58,100 --> 00:06:05,633
TELLING THE STREET AND COMPLETE

213
00:06:03,266 --> 00:06:06,366
TRUTH AND THERE WERE A LOT OF

214
00:06:04,433 --> 00:06:07,233
QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT VERSION OF

215
00:06:05,633 --> 00:06:11,100
THE STORY WAS TOLD, WEATHER IT

216
00:06:06,366 --> 00:06:12,200
WAS AN EXPERT OR OFFICERS

217
00:06:07,233 --> 00:06:12,866
DURING THE SCENE ON THE SCENE

218
00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:20,766
THE DAY OF THE INCIDENT.

219
00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:21,466
YOU HAVE TO BE CONSISTENT.

220
00:06:12,866 --> 00:06:21,866
>> Eddie: DO YOU THINK THAT'S

221
00:06:20,766 --> 00:06:22,633
WHERE THEY LOST WHEN HE TOOK

222
00:06:21,466 --> 00:06:23,133
THE STAND?

223
00:06:21,866 --> 00:06:23,666
>> Guest: I THINK IT WAS A VERY

224
00:06:22,633 --> 00:06:31,433
POWERFUL VISUAL.

225
00:06:23,133 --> 00:06:32,633
THE DASH CAM VIDEO.

226
00:06:23,666 --> 00:06:33,466
WHILE VIDEOS CAN BE INTERPRETED

227
00:06:31,433 --> 00:06:34,400
IN DIFFERENT WAYS, WHEN YOU CAN

228
00:06:32,633 --> 00:06:35,000
LOOK AT SOMETHING AND SEE IT

229
00:06:33,466 --> 00:06:35,766
FOR YOURSELF, IT CAN BE VERY

230
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:39,133
POWERFUL.

231
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:39,633
AS YOU LOOK AT IT OVER AND OVER

232
00:06:35,766 --> 00:06:40,500
AGAIN, IT IS REALLY HARD TO SEE

233
00:06:39,133 --> 00:06:41,400
THAT.

234
00:06:39,633 --> 00:06:41,900
>> Eddie: THEY LOOKED AT IT IN

235
00:06:40,500 --> 00:06:45,566
THEIR WORDS, MANY, MANY, MANY

236
00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:46,600
TIMES.

237
00:06:41,900 --> 00:06:47,566
DO YOU THINK THERE WAS EVER ANY

238
00:06:45,566 --> 00:06:48,266
TESTIMONY THAT THEY COULD HAVE

239
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,233
PRESENTED THAT WOULD HAVE

240
00:06:47,566 --> 00:06:52,033
OVERCOME THAT VISUAL?

241
00:06:48,266 --> 00:06:53,266
>> Guest: I AM HARD-PRESSED TO

242
00:06:49,233 --> 00:06:53,966
THINK OF ANY.

243
00:06:52,033 --> 00:06:54,700
>> Eddie: DO YOU THINK THAT WAS

244
00:06:53,266 --> 00:06:55,833
A GIVEN?

245
00:06:53,966 --> 00:06:56,433
>> Guest: IT WAS VERY POWERFUL.

246
00:06:54,700 --> 00:06:59,333
>> Eddie: THE JURORS THAT SPOKE

247
00:06:55,833 --> 00:07:00,600
OUT TODAY SOUNDED VERY

248
00:06:56,433 --> 00:07:03,066
CONFIDENT IN THEIR DECISION.

249
00:06:59,333 --> 00:07:04,133
THEY SAID THAT THEY LISTENED

250
00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:06,366
CAREFULLY HERE THEY SAID THAT

251
00:07:03,066 --> 00:07:09,200
THEY DIDN'T SOUND LIKE THEY

252
00:07:04,133 --> 00:07:10,266
WERE FORCED INTO ANY DECISION.

253
00:07:06,366 --> 00:07:11,133
JASON VAN DYKE'S OF ORDERS AND

254
00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:14,066
I THINK WE WILL HEAR FROM ONE

255
00:07:10,266 --> 00:07:15,100
OF THEM AND JUST A LITTLE BIT

256
00:07:11,133 --> 00:07:17,000
HAVE ALREADY SAID THAT THERE IS

257
00:07:14,066 --> 00:07:20,633
THE FERGUSON EFFECT IN PLAY

258
00:07:15,100 --> 00:07:21,766
HERE MEANING THE MISSOURI CASE

259
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:23,966
IN WHICH MICHAEL BROWN WAS

260
00:07:20,633 --> 00:07:25,833
SHOT, A BLACK MAN BY A WHITE

261
00:07:21,766 --> 00:07:26,366
OFFICER AND THAT SET OUT RIGHT

262
00:07:23,966 --> 00:07:28,933
AND PROTESTS, REALLY AROUND THE

263
00:07:25,833 --> 00:07:29,933
COUNTRY.

264
00:07:26,366 --> 00:07:33,600
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS IS AT

265
00:07:28,933 --> 00:07:34,766
ALL FACTORED INTO THEIR

266
00:07:29,933 --> 00:07:35,500
DECISION TONIGHT?

267
00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,266
>> Guest: I GIVE THEM A LOT OF

268
00:07:34,766 --> 00:07:38,433
CREDIT.

269
00:07:35,500 --> 00:07:40,966
TAKEN AT FACE VALUE.

270
00:07:37,266 --> 00:07:45,433
THEY DELIBERATED AND IT WASN'T

271
00:07:38,433 --> 00:07:46,466
A UNANIMOUS VERDICT AT THE

272
00:07:40,966 --> 00:07:47,300
BEGINNING.

273
00:07:45,433 --> 00:07:47,933
THEY LOOKED AT THE PROS AND

274
00:07:46,466 --> 00:07:49,200
CONS AND IT WAS A HARD DECISION

275
00:07:47,300 --> 00:07:50,300
TO COME TO.

276
00:07:47,933 --> 00:07:55,733
I DON'T THINK IT WAS A PRODUCT

277
00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:56,566
OF THE FERGUSON EFFECT, I THINK

278
00:07:50,300 --> 00:07:57,266
IT WAS A PRODUCT OF

279
00:07:55,733 --> 00:07:57,766
DELIBERATION.

280
00:07:56,566 --> 00:08:04,133
>> Guest: IT IS HARD TO GET

281
00:07:57,266 --> 00:08:05,266
YOUR HEAD AROUND.

282
00:07:57,766 --> 00:08:06,000
THERE WAS A VIDEO AND THERE WAS

283
00:08:04,133 --> 00:08:06,733
A TESTIMONY ASKING JURORS TO

284
00:08:05,266 --> 00:08:07,800
BELIEVE SOMETHING ON THE VIDEO

285
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,533
THAT DID NOT SEEM TO BE THERE.

286
00:08:06,733 --> 00:08:09,233
THE COMBINATION OF THOSE TO THE

287
00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,333
VIDEO AND THE TESTIMONY THAT

288
00:08:08,533 --> 00:08:16,966
SEEM TO CONTROVERT WHAT THE

289
00:08:09,233 --> 00:08:17,933
VIDEO SHOWED MADE IT DIFFICULT

290
00:08:10,333 --> 00:08:18,866
FOR THE DEFENSE.

291
00:08:16,966 --> 00:08:19,933
>> Eddie: THERE IS A LOT OF

292
00:08:17,933 --> 00:08:20,900
MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACKING

293
00:08:18,866 --> 00:08:21,233
TAKING PLACE AND MAYBE WE ARE

294
00:08:19,933 --> 00:08:25,766
ALREADY DOING THAT HERE NANCY

295
00:08:20,900 --> 00:08:26,933
MARDER.

296
00:08:21,233 --> 00:08:27,566
AS YOU LOOK BACK, SHOULD THEY

297
00:08:25,766 --> 00:08:28,366
HAVE GONE WITH A BENCH TRIAL?

298
00:08:26,933 --> 00:08:28,666
WOULD THAT HAVE MADE A

299
00:08:27,566 --> 00:08:33,366
DIFFERENCE OPPOSED TO A JURY

300
00:08:28,366 --> 00:08:34,500
TRIAL?

301
00:08:28,666 --> 00:08:35,366
>> Guest: I THINK THE JURY

302
00:08:33,366 --> 00:08:36,500
TRIAL IS THE FAIREST PROTECTION

303
00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:37,166
THAT WE OFFER TO DEFENDANTS.

304
00:08:35,366 --> 00:08:39,600
IT IS NOT A PERFECT SYSTEM THAT

305
00:08:36,500 --> 00:08:42,766
THERE IS NO PERFECT SYSTEM.

306
00:08:37,166 --> 00:08:43,766
I THINK THE JURY TRIAL IS WHAT

307
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:47,566
YOU DO IF YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT

308
00:08:42,766 --> 00:08:52,800
A FAIR TRIAL.

309
00:08:43,766 --> 00:08:53,566
>> Eddie: WHAT IT HAVE MADE ANY

310
00:08:47,566 --> 00:08:54,000
DIFFERENCE IF JASON VAN DYKE

311
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,733
TESTIFIED?

312
00:08:53,566 --> 00:08:55,466
DO YOU THINK?

313
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,800
>> Guest: I THINK ACCORDING TO

314
00:08:54,733 --> 00:08:57,233
MY COLLEAGUE HERE, HE HAD NO

315
00:08:55,466 --> 00:09:01,466
CHOICE.

316
00:08:55,800 --> 00:09:03,300
>> Guest: IN A SELF-DEFENSE

317
00:08:57,233 --> 00:09:04,033
CASE, YOU CAN ALWAYS HAVE ONE

318
00:09:01,466 --> 00:09:05,333
PERSON SAY WHAT THEY ARE

319
00:09:03,300 --> 00:09:06,300
THINKING AND THAT WAS JASON VAN

320
00:09:04,033 --> 00:09:11,600
DYKE GOOD THREE OF ALL THE

321
00:09:05,333 --> 00:09:12,666
PEOPLE IN THE COURTROOM TODAY

322
00:09:06,300 --> 00:09:13,366
YOU GOT A SHOUT OUT FROM THE

323
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,600
JUDGE, HE PRAISED YOU AND

324
00:09:12,666 --> 00:09:15,766
NOTICED THAT YOU WERE IN THE

325
00:09:13,366 --> 00:09:19,300
COURTROOM THERE.

326
00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:21,033
TELL US WHAT YOU FELT AND SAW

327
00:09:15,766 --> 00:09:21,433
IN THE COURTROOM.

328
00:09:19,300 --> 00:09:26,166
>> Guest: IT WAS AN INTENSE

329
00:09:21,033 --> 00:09:28,233
COURTROOM.

330
00:09:21,433 --> 00:09:28,633
I WAS NOT INVOLVED AS A TRIAL

331
00:09:26,166 --> 00:09:31,033
LAWYER, BUT I WAS JUST THERE AS

332
00:09:28,233 --> 00:09:33,400
AN OBSERVER.

333
00:09:28,633 --> 00:09:33,866
IN TERMS OF THE JUDGE GIVING A

334
00:09:31,033 --> 00:09:37,666
SHOUT OUT, I WILL GIVE HIM ONE

335
00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:39,833
BACK.

336
00:09:33,866 --> 00:09:40,233
I KNOW IT WAS A HARD CASE.

337
00:09:37,666 --> 00:09:40,966
IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT AND VERY

338
00:09:39,833 --> 00:09:42,533
COMPLICATED.

339
00:09:40,233 --> 00:09:43,566
IT WAS IN THE FRONT PAGE AS YOU

340
00:09:40,966 --> 00:09:45,966
KNOW, IT WAS A HEATER CASE.

341
00:09:42,533 --> 00:09:47,266
I DON'T THINK THE VERDICT

342
00:09:43,566 --> 00:09:47,800
WOULD'VE BEEN ANY DIFFERENT HAD

343
00:09:45,966 --> 00:09:53,133
IT BEEN A BENCH TRIAL.I THINK

344
00:09:47,266 --> 00:09:56,300
THE LAW IS THE LAW.

345
00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:56,866
>> Eddie: SHARONE MITCHELL, ONE

346
00:09:53,133 --> 00:09:57,666
OF THE GROUNDS FOR AN APPEAL

347
00:09:56,300 --> 00:10:02,633
HERE?

348
00:09:56,866 --> 00:10:03,800
>> Guest: THEY WILL TRY TO

349
00:09:57,666 --> 00:10:04,533
APPEAL IN THE APPEAL PROCESS

350
00:10:02,633 --> 00:10:05,233
BUT THEY CAN THROW ANYTHING

351
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,966
AGAINST THE WALL TO SEE IF IT

352
00:10:04,533 --> 00:10:06,733
WILL STICK.

353
00:10:05,233 --> 00:10:07,466
I THINK ONE OF THE FOCUS WILL

354
00:10:05,966 --> 00:10:08,166
BE THE VENUE QUESTION, THE IDEA

355
00:10:06,733 --> 00:10:13,033
THAT THE CASE WAS HEARD IN COOK

356
00:10:07,466 --> 00:10:14,300
COUNTY AND BECAUSE THE

357
00:10:08,166 --> 00:10:14,966
SENTIMENT AROUND THE CASE

358
00:10:13,033 --> 00:10:15,700
LOCALLY THAT THE DEFENDANT

359
00:10:14,300 --> 00:10:16,466
COULD NOT GET A FAIR TRIAL,

360
00:10:14,966 --> 00:10:18,900
THERE WILL BE OTHER ISSUES AS

361
00:10:15,700 --> 00:10:19,866
WELL BUT ISIS ACT THAT WILL BE

362
00:10:16,466 --> 00:10:24,000
ONE OF THE MAIN ARGUMENTS.

363
00:10:18,900 --> 00:10:25,033
>> Eddie: DO YOU WANT TO THROW

364
00:10:19,866 --> 00:10:26,133
A MONKEYWRENCH AT THAT?

365
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,233
>> Guest: MY UNDERSTANDING IS

366
00:10:25,033 --> 00:10:29,500
THAT NOT ALL OF THE CHALLENGES

367
00:10:26,133 --> 00:10:30,200
OF THE JURY WAS EXERCISED THE

368
00:10:28,233 --> 00:10:30,800
LAW IS CLEAR THAT YOU HAVE TO

369
00:10:29,500 --> 00:10:31,633
EXERCISE ALL OF THAT TO MAKE

370
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:37,000
SURE THE JURY WAS FAIR.

371
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:37,666
IF ALL THE CHALLENGES WAS

372
00:10:31,633 --> 00:10:38,400
EXERCISE IT WILL BE A LOSING

373
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,733
APPEAL.

374
00:10:37,666 --> 00:10:40,200
>> Eddie: DESCRIBED THE IMPACT

375
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,766
OF A CASE LIKE THIS ON THE

376
00:10:39,733 --> 00:10:45,766
JURY.

377
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:47,700
EXCUSE ME THE JURORS.

378
00:10:41,766 --> 00:10:48,266
>> Guest: I THINK ANYTIME THAT

379
00:10:45,766 --> 00:10:49,100
YOU SERVE AS A JUROR, IT LEAVES

380
00:10:47,700 --> 00:10:53,766
A LASTING IMPRESSION.

381
00:10:48,266 --> 00:10:54,266
YOU CAN ASK WILL 20 YEARS LATER

382
00:10:49,100 --> 00:10:55,166
AND THEY WILL REMEMBER THE JURY

383
00:10:53,766 --> 00:10:56,466
TRIAL.

384
00:10:54,266 --> 00:10:57,766
I THINK WHEN PEOPLE SERVE, THEY

385
00:10:55,166 --> 00:10:58,466
REALIZE HOW SERIOUS THEIR JOB

386
00:10:56,466 --> 00:11:00,500
IS WHERE THEY GROW TO TAKE

387
00:10:57,766 --> 00:11:05,300
THEIR JOB VERY SERIOUSLY.

388
00:10:58,466 --> 00:11:06,000
AND SO, IT IS SOMETHING THAT

389
00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:06,866
STAYS WITH THEM AND I THINK

390
00:11:05,300 --> 00:11:07,533
IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS IT IS

391
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,933
SOMETHING THAT CAN CAUSE THEM A

392
00:11:06,866 --> 00:11:11,300
GREAT DEAL OF ANGUISH OR

393
00:11:07,533 --> 00:11:12,400
STRESS.

394
00:11:08,933 --> 00:11:15,100
BECAUSE, THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH

395
00:11:11,300 --> 00:11:16,233
THIS EMOTIONALLY WRENCHING

396
00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:17,266
EXPERIENCE BUT ONE THAT THEY

397
00:11:15,100 --> 00:11:18,333
ARE USUALLY QUITE POSITIVE

398
00:11:16,233 --> 00:11:19,133
ABOUT AFTERWARD.

399
00:11:17,266 --> 00:11:26,733
>> Eddie: THEY SOUNDED VERY

400
00:11:18,333 --> 00:11:27,800
PROUD TO BE A PART OF THE

401
00:11:19,133 --> 00:11:28,733
PROCESS ON THAT JURY.

402
00:11:26,733 --> 00:11:29,633
SHARONE MITCHELL, THERE WAS A

403
00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,733
LOT OF TALK ABOUT THE MAKEUP OF

404
00:11:28,733 --> 00:11:31,500
THE STREET BECAUSE THERE WAS

405
00:11:29,633 --> 00:11:32,200
ONLY ONE AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND

406
00:11:30,733 --> 00:11:33,133
WE HEARD FROM HER THIS

407
00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:33,700
AFTERNOON.WAS THAT JUROR IN

408
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,866
EACH OF THE POSITION TO THINK

409
00:11:33,133 --> 00:11:37,333
WE'LL.

410
00:11:33,700 --> 00:11:37,966
>> Guest: YOU KNOW, I AM NOT

411
00:11:36,866 --> 00:11:38,933
SURE.

412
00:11:37,333 --> 00:11:39,766
I KNOW THERE IS A LOT OF

413
00:11:37,966 --> 00:11:41,633
COMMENTARY CENTERED AROUND THIS

414
00:11:38,933 --> 00:11:42,100
AND THAT IT WOULD BE ABOUT

415
00:11:39,766 --> 00:11:44,066
RACE, BUT I DID NOT GET IN THE

416
00:11:41,633 --> 00:11:49,266
TRIAL.

417
00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:50,233
THERE WAS ONE MENTION OF LAQUAN

418
00:11:44,066 --> 00:11:51,266
McDONALD BEING A BLACK BOY AND

419
00:11:49,266 --> 00:11:52,133
THERE WAS A RESPONSE IN THE

420
00:11:50,233 --> 00:11:53,433
OPENING BY DAN HERBERT SAYING

421
00:11:51,266 --> 00:11:54,966
IT WAS NOT ABOUT RACE.THE

422
00:11:52,133 --> 00:11:55,366
ACTUAL TESTIMONY, THE CRUX OF

423
00:11:53,433 --> 00:11:56,166
THE CASE DID NOT CENTER ABOUT

424
00:11:54,966 --> 00:11:56,833
RACE.

425
00:11:55,366 --> 00:11:59,433
I'M NOT SURE IF THAT WAS A

426
00:11:56,166 --> 00:12:01,100
FACTOR.

427
00:11:56,833 --> 00:12:02,166
>> Eddie: RICHARD KLING, THIS

428
00:11:59,433 --> 00:12:05,166
IS NOT OVER.

429
00:12:01,100 --> 00:12:15,900
THERE WILL BE ANOTHER TRIAL OF

430
00:12:02,166 --> 00:12:15,900
THREE OFFICERS CHARGED WITH

431
00:12:05,166 --> 00:12:15,900
CONSPIRING A

432
00:12:19,233 --> 00:12:21,266
THREAT POSED BY

433
00:12:19,766 --> 00:12:21,800
LAQUAN McDONALD.

434
00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:22,566
IT WILL BE ANOTHER SERIOUS

435
00:12:21,266 --> 00:12:23,200
CASE.

436
00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:23,666
GIVE US A PREVIEW OF WHAT MIGHT

437
00:12:22,566 --> 00:12:24,500
HAPPEN THERE, GIVEN WHAT

438
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,233
HAPPENED TODAY.

439
00:12:23,666 --> 00:12:26,066
>> Guest: IF I WAS A DEFENSE

440
00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:27,066
LAWYER IN THAT CASE I WOULD BE

441
00:12:25,233 --> 00:12:27,766
POURING OVER THIS TESTIMONY AND

442
00:12:26,066 --> 00:12:28,466
THE JURY BECAUSE I WOULD BE

443
00:12:27,066 --> 00:12:28,766
SERIOUSLY QUESTIONING WEATHER

444
00:12:27,766 --> 00:12:29,533
OR NOT I WANT TO NEGOTIATE A

445
00:12:28,466 --> 00:12:32,466
PLEA.

446
00:12:28,766 --> 00:12:33,466
REALISTICALLY IT IS CLEAR NOW

447
00:12:29,533 --> 00:12:34,300
THAT THE CITIZENS OF COOK

448
00:12:32,466 --> 00:12:35,366
COUNTY CAN CONVICT A POLICE

449
00:12:33,466 --> 00:12:35,666
OFFICER IF THEY BELIEVE THE