ARABIA.

>> PHIL, IT IS WHAT IT IS.

THAT'S WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID

THIS AFTERNOON ABOUT THE MURDER

OF DISSIDENT SAUDI JOURNALIST

JAMAL KHASHOGGI HIS COMMENTS

COME AFTER THE C.I.A. CONCLUDED

THAT THE CROWN PRINCE OF SAUDI

ARABIA, MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN

ORDERED JAMAL KHASHOGGI KILLING

IN INSTAN BULL.

UNDER PRESSURE TO TAKE ACTIONS

AGAINST THE SAUDI REGIME

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD THIS TO SAY

TODAY.

>> THEY ARE BUYING HUNDREDS OF

BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF

THINGS FROM THIS COUNTRY.

IF I SAY WE DON'T WANT TO TAKE

YOUR BUSINESS, IF I SAY WE ARE

GOING TO CUT IT OFF, THEY WILL

GET THE EQUIPMENT, MILITARY

EQUIPMENT AND OTHER THINGS FROM

RUSSIA AND CHINA.

RIGHT NOW WE HAVE OIL PRICES IN

GREAT SHAPE.

I'M NOT GOING TO DESTROY THE

WORLD ECONOMY AND I'M NOT GOING

TO DESTROY THE ECONOMY FOR OUR

COUNTRY BY BEING FOOLISH WITH

SAUDI ARABIA.

IT'S ABOUT AMERICA FIRST.

>> MEANWHILE U.S. SECRETARY OF

STATE, MIKE POMPEO ALSO RAISED

SOME EYEBROWS TODAY CHALKING UP

THE MURDER TO A MEAN, NASTY

WORLD OUT THERE.

HERE WAS LOCAL PERSPECTIVE ARE

CECILE SHEA, A SPECIALIST ON

GLOBAL SECURITY AND DIPLOMACY AT

THE CHICAGO COUNCIL ON GLOBAL

AFFAIRS AND SPENT TWO DECADES AS

A U.S. DIPLOMAT INCLUDING

SERVICE IN EUROPE, ASIA AND THE

MIDDLE EAST.

AND KHALIL MARRAN A PROFESSOR

WHOSE EXPERTISE INCLUDES THE

POLITICS OF THE MIDDLE EAST.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

CECILE SHEA SOMETHING ELSE THE

PRESIDENT SAID WAS THAT THE U.S.

WILL REMAIN A STEADFAST PARTNER

OF SAUDI ARABIA IS THE PRESIDENT

ACTING IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF

THE UNITED STATES?

>> I DON'T THINK THAT HE IS.

SAUDI ARABIA HAS BEEN A

PROBLEMATIC COUNTRY FOR DECADES

SOME WOULD SAY A BETTER PART OF

A CENTURY AND WE HAVE BEEN

WILLING TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY

WHILE THEY EXPORTED THEIR REALLY

PROBLEMATIC TYPE OF ISLAM

EXTREMIST, REMEMBER THAT MOST OF

THE 9/11 HIJACKERS WERE SAUDI

CITIZENS.

SAUDIS HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN

TERROR ATTACKS AGAINST THE

UNITED STATES IN SAUDI ARABIA

AND IN AFRICA.

AND WE CHOSE TO IGNORE IT.

WE'VE CHOSEN TO IGNORE SAUDIS

EXTREME HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES IN

YEMEN WHICH LED TO THE GREATEST

HUMANITARIAN CRISIS FACING THE

GLOBE RIGHT NOW.

AND THE PRESIDENT'S STATEMENT

TODAY HE BLAMED THE PROBLEMS IN

YEMEN ON IRAN AND THAT IS

DISINGENUOUS, THE SAUDIS ARE

BEHIND THIS AND THEY HAVE A

HIDEOUS HUMAN RIGHTS RECORD AT

HOME AND WE HAVE BEEN WILLING TO

LOOK AWAY BECAUSE WE NEEDED

THEIR OIL AND WHAT IS GOING ON

NOW WE ARE NOT AS DE3E7BDENT ON

SAUDI OIL ANYMORE.

>> KHALIL MARRAN SOMETHING ELSE

WHEN ASKED WHETHER MOHAMMED BIN

SALMAN WAS BEHIND THE KILLING HE

SAID MAYBE HE DID IT, MAYBE HE

DIDN'T.

AND THE CROWN PRINCE HAS BEEN

THE FOCUS OF THIS INVESTIGATION

AND WHETHER HE WAS BEHIND IT.

BUT WOULD HE HAVE ACTED

UNILATERALLY?

>> I MEAN DEPENDS WHAT WE MEAN

BY UNILATERALLY.

I DON'T THINK THAT THE CROWN

PRINCE HAD TO ASK FOR PERMISSION

IF THAT IS THE QUESTION.

IF THE QUESTION, HOWEVER, IS DID

THE UNITED STATES AND SAUDI

ARABIA CONSPIRE TO KILL HIS

JOURNALIST, I SAY NO.

BUT YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO

REMEMBER THIS IS THE SAME

PRESIDENT THAT HAS CALLED

JOURNALISTS LIKE YOURSELF

ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE.

AND THE RHETORIC THAT TRUMP AS

ENGAGED IN HAS BEEN DANGEROUS,

INDEED.

NOT TO MENTION UPENDING THE

ENTIRE INTERNATIONAL ORDER UPON

WHICH WE RELIED FOR MANY, MANY,

MANY YEARS SINCE THE SECOND

WORLD WAR.

NOT TO VIOLATE HUMAN RIGHTS AND

TO RESPECT THE FUNDAMENTAL

PRINCIPLE OF THE FREEDOM OF THE

PRESS AND SPEECH.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT IS GOING

ON INSIDE THE SAUDI ARABIA.

IT MATTERS MUCH MORE THAT THE

UNITED STATES SETS A POSITIVE

TONE, A TONE THAT IS AFFIRMATIVE

OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND NOT OPPOSED

TO IT.

>> AS CECILE SHEA SAID AT THIS

POINT, THE UNITED STATES IS NOT

AS RELIANT ON SAUDI OIL AS IT

ONCE WAS.

SO AS IT STANDS NOW, WHO IS MORE

RELIANT ON WHO AT THIS POINT?

THE UNITED STATES TO SAUDI

ARABIA OR THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

>> I AGREE WITH CECILE SHEA.

THAT THE UNITED STATES IN

PARTICULAR IS NOT DEPENDENT AS

IT ONCE WERE ON SAUDI OIL.

AND THAT IS RELATIVE.

WE HAVE TO THINK IN TERMS OF

ABSOLUTE IN ABSOLUTE TERMS.

IT'S ALL THE SAME POT THE SAME

OIL MARKETS ALL THE SAME OIL

BEING TRADED.

AND THEREFORE WE CANNOT LOOK AT

THE RELATIONSHIP AS BEING ONE OF

ONLY THE UNITED STATES DEPENDING

ON SAUDIS.

A LOT OF PEOPLE MIGHT REMEMBER

THE EMBARGO IN 1973.

THE SAUDIS ARE NOT CAPABLE OF

THE SAME ACTION BUT I FEAR GIVEN

THAT SAUDI ARABIA IS THE WORLD'S

PREEMPTNENT OIL PRODUCER THAT

YES, THE UNITED STATES DOES NEED

SAUDI ARABIA IN ORDER TO HAVE A

STABLE GLOBAL ECONOMY.

YOU CANNOT HAVE THAT WITHOUT

STABLE OIL PRICES.

>> DOES THE UNITED STATES NEED

SAUDI ARABIA TO HAVE A STABLE

MIDDLE EAST?

>> CECILE SHEA?

>> I WOULD ARGUE THAT SAUDI

ARABIA IS AN AENACT MA TO A

STABLE MIDDLE EAST.

THEIR ACTIONS OF EXPORTING

2345UD GNAWED.

THEY HAVE WITHIN

THEY HAVE BEEN AN UNHELPFUL

PARTY IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF

ISLAM AROUND THE WORLD.

AND MADE THE U.S. MORE

DANGEROUS.

THEY HAVE BEEN PROBLEMATIC FOR

OUR OWN NATIONAL SECURITY AND WE

SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IGNORING IT

FOR DECADES AND NOT IGNORING IT

NOW.

>> AND THE QUESTION IS WHETHER

THERE IS TRUTH IN THE AMOUNT OF

MONEY THAT SAUDI ARABIA HAS

PLEDGED TO BUY ARMMENTS FROM THE

UNITED STATES THE PRESIDENT SAID

410 BILLION TO 450 BILLION AND

MOST SAY THAT IT DOESN'T

APPROACH ANYWHERE NEAR THAT AND

MOST CONTRACTS WILL NEVER BE

FULFILLED?

>> EDDIE IT'S $15 BILLION WHICH

IS A GOOD CHUNK OF CHANGE AND WE

SHOULDN'T BURN OUR BRIDGES WHEN

IT COMES TO 15 BILLION DOLLARS.

BUT, I DON'T LIKE LISTEN TO

ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I THINK

THE UNITED STATES NEEDS SAUDI

ARABIA THAT IT IS IN OUR

STRATEGIC AND NATIONAL INTEREST

TO DEPEND ON SAUDI ARABIA AND I

SOMEWHAT DISAGREE WITH CECILE

SHEA AND THE POINT SHE IS MAKING

IS LEGITIMATE AND THEY HAVE BEEN

FUELING ISLAMISMS AND THEISMS

AND WE MUST HAVE A MEMORY LOOK

AT 1979, THE YEAR THAT TURNED

SAUDI ARABIA IN THE STATE THAT

WE KNOW IT TODAY.

IF ANYTHING, THE CROWN PRINCE IS

MOVING AWAY FROM THAT BRINK.

HE LIKE STABILIZING SAUDI ARABIA

AND SORT OF LIKE MODERATING THE

RADICAL ISLAM.

SAUDI ARABIA HAS RIGHTLY SO BEEN

ACCUSED OF DOING.

BUT THE IRANIAN INFLUENCE AS

WELL.

IN 1979 IRAN HAS A REVOLUTION

WHERE THEY ARE EXPORTING SHI'ITE

EXTREMISM NOT AROUND THE MIDDLE

EAST BUT AROUND THE WORLD.

>> THE QUESTION IS AT THIS

POINT, IS THERE A MORAL

PREROGATIVE IN CANCELING THE

CONTRACTS?

AND SANCTIONING THE SAUDIS?

WHAT DO YOU THINK CECILE SHEA?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE SHOULD BE

A DEBATE ON WHAT WE SHOULD DO

ABOUT THE CONTRACTS.

WE SHOULD HAVE A LOT MORE

KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WHAT THE WEAPONS

ARE.

AND WEAPON SALES TO ANY COUNTRY

ARE SUPPOSED TO BE APPROVED BY

THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND THE

DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE AND

CONGRESS WOULD NORMALLY HAVE A

SAY AND WE NEED TO ASK OURSELVES

AS WE DO WITH WEAPONS SALES

BUT --

>> RELATED TO THIS INCIDENT THIS

MURDER, THE C.I.A. DETERMINED

THAT THE CROWN PRINCE AND

POSSIBLY HIS INNER CIRCLE OR THE

WIDER CIRCLE WERE BEHIND THE

MURDER.

THE PRESIDENT HAS CHOSEN NOT TO

GO BY THAT FINDING S THERE A

MORAL STANDING THAT THE

PRESIDENT SHOULD BE TAKING

RATHER THAN AN ECONOMIC ONE?

>> I THINK THERE IS A MORAL

STANDING.

I THINK THAT THE WORLD IS

WATCHING HOW WE'RE GOING TO

REACT.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT SIZE OF THE

SANCTIONS THEY SHOULD BE OR WHAT

FORM THEY SHOULD TAKE BUT I

THINK THERE IS SUCH WIDESPREAD

AND BIPARTISAN CRITICISM OF THE

ACTION --

>> INCLUDING FROM SENATOR

LINDSEY GRAHAM THAT HE HAS

BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR

SANCTIONS.

>> AND YEMEN, THE HORROR THAT IS

GOING ON WITH THE CHILDREN

STARVING TO DEATH AND TENS OF

THOUSANDS OF CIVILIAN

CASUALTIES.

I THINK IT'S TIME FOR ACTION.

WHAT THE ACTION SHOULD BE?

I AM AHE NOT PREPARED TO SAY.

AND IN PART BECAUSE WE DON'T

UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING ABOUT THE

ARMS SALES.

>> KHALIL MARRAN, DO YOU BELIEVE

THE C.I.A.'S FINDINGS THAT THE

CROWN PRINCE AND PERHAPS A WIDER

CIRCLE OF SAUDI OFFICIALS WERE

BEHIND THE MURDER?

>> IT'S COMMON SENSE.

NOTHING HAPPENS IN TERMS OF

SAUDI FOREIGN POLICY WITHOUT THE

CROWN PRINCE.

>> WHAT IS THE REACTION DO YOU

THINK FROM THE REST OF THE

MIDDLE EAST OR THE REST OF THE

WORLD TO OUR FOREIGN POLICY WHEN

THE PRESIDENT HAS CHOSEN TO

IGNORE THAT FINDING?

>> IT IS A THANK YOU FROM THE

AUTO CONTRACTS AND DICTATORS AND

MONARCHS.

YOU HAVE TURKEY CRYING CROCODILE

TEARS ABOUT A MURDERED

JOURNALIST WHEN THEY HAVE THEIR

OWN COUNTLESS JOURNALISTS THAT

ARE JAILED AND IMPRISONED FOR

DOING LESLIE HINDMAN AUCTIONEERS

BRAVE IN HINDSIGHT NOW I SAY

THIS THAN WHAT JAMAL KHASHOGGI

WAS DOING.

>> SO, IT ALSO BRINGS UP THE

ISSUE OF WHAT PERSONAL INTEREST

THE PRESIDENT MIGHT HAVE.

HE SAYS HE HAS NO FINANCIAL TIES

IN SAUDI ARABIA.

WHEN THAT IS NOT EXACTLY TRUE.

THE SAUDIS HAVE BAILED HIM OUT

OF A NUMBER OF ISSUES WHEN HE

HAS HAD FINANCIAL PROBLEMS.

THEY BOUGHT THE 45TH FLOOR OF

THE TRUMP WORLD TOWER IN NEW

YORK TO THE TO BE CONFUSED WITH

THE TRUMP TOWER ANOTHER PART OF

MANHATTAN AND THE QUESTION ABOUT

WHAT INTEREST HIS SON-IN-LAW,

JARED KUSHNER MIGHT HAVE.

DO YOU THINK THIS IS FACTORING

INTO HIS DECISION?

>> I WORRY IT'S FACTORING INTO

HIS DECISION.

THE FACT THAT NEITHER JARED

KUSHNER NOR THE PRESIDENT WOULD

BE ABLE TO GET ANY OTHER JOB IN

THE U.S. GOVERNMENT BECAUSE OF

THE COMPLEX DEALINGS AND THE

LARGE AMOUNT OF DEBT THEY HOLD.

IT'S PROBLEMATIC WHEN KUSHNER IS

DEALING WITH CHINA OR SAUDI

ARABIA KNOWING HIS FAMILY IS

DESPERATE FOR AN INFUSION OF

CAPITAL INTO THE REAL ESTATE

EMPIRE.

BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT SEEN HIS TAX

RETURNS AND HE HAS NOT BEEN

FORTHCOMING WITH HIS DEALINGS WE

DON'T KNOW WHAT PRESIDENT

TRUMP'S PAST OR PRESENT DEALINGS

ARE WITH SAUDI ARABIA AND WE

DON'T KNOW WHAT FUTURE IDEAS HE

HAS ABOUT SAUDI ARABIA.

AND THE AMOUNT OF CAPITAL THAT

HE MAY HOPE TO GAIN FROM THAT

COUNTRY.

SO, YES, IT'S REALLY

PROBLEMATIC.

>> WE SAW PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE

CROWN PRINCE.

ONE OF THEM WAS WHEN HE DID HIS

GRAND TOUR OF THE UNITED STATES

EARLIER THIS YEAR WHERE HE MET

NOT ONLY WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP

BUT WITH THE FORMER PRESIDENTS

BUSH AND A LOT OF CELEBRITIES

AND MET WITH BUSINESS LEADERS.

DOES THIS CHANGE THE U.S.

RELATIONSHIP WITH SAUDI ARABIA

EVEN IF PRESIDENT TRUMP DOESN'T

WANT IT TO CHANGE?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I MEAN, THE PRESIDENT IS THE

DECIDER IN CHIEF.

CONGRESS IS NOT ABLE TO ACT IN

THE WAY THAT ANYBODY WAS

OUTRAGED ABOUT THE JAMAL

KHASHOGGI MURDER WANTS THEM TO

ACT.

CONGRESS IS LIMITED.

THE PRESIDENT IS THE DECIDER IN

CHIEF AND THE PRESIDENT IS GOING

TO SET THE TONE AND HE HAS SET

THE TONE AND IT'S NOT LOOKING

GOOD.

LISTEN WHEN NBS CAME HERE AND

DID THE TOUR HE HAD MEDIA

INTERVIEWS.

AND IF FOLKS LOOK AT THE

INTERVIEWS THEY WILL NOTICE

EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT

NOW.

FREEDOM WITHIN LIMITS.

THERE IS AN OLD SLOGAN AT THE

SAUDIS LOVE TO SORT OF TALK

ABOUT.

AND OR EXPRESS.

AND THAT SLOGAN IS PROGRESS

WITHOUT CHANGE.

>> SO CECILE SHEA WHAT DO YOU

BELIEVE WILL CHANGE FROM HERE?

THIS HAS BEEN ONE OF THE MOST

SIGNIFICANT FOREIGN POLICY

DETERMINATIONS COMING OUT OF

THIS ADMINISTRATION.

AND THESE NEXT TWO YEARS OF HIS

TERM, WHAT WILL CHANGE IF

ANYTHING BECAUSE OF THIS?

>> WELL, I THINK TWO OR THREE

THINGS.

FIRST, THE ONE THING THAT IS

CLEAR IS THAT NBS IS NOT THE

BRILLIANT POLITICIAN.

HE IS UNSOPHISTICATED HE IS

SHOCKED THAT MURDERING AN

EMPLOYEE OF THE MOST RICHEST MAN

IN THE WORLD, JAMAL KHASHOGGI

WORKED FOR JEFF BEES SO, SOME

BEZOS AND SOME ON ON CAPITOL

HILL HAD FRIENDS IN THE SENATE

AND THE HOUSE WAS A JOURNALIST

THAT HE SEEMED SHOCKED THAT

ANYONE WOULD HAVE CARED ABOUT

THIS.

>> THE FOREIGN POLICY COMING OUT

OF THIS ADMINISTRATION.

>> I THINK WE WILL SEE LESS

SPACE IN NBF AND START LOOKING

FOR PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE OF SAUD