>>> FROM LABOR UNION DISPUTES TO
NUCLEAR NEGOTIATIONS WIN THE
U.S. AND FORMER SOVIET UNION,
WILLIAM URY HAS BEEN IN THE
MIDDLE OF MANY DISAGREEMENT.
HIS RECENT BOOK IS CALLED:
GETTING TO YES WITH YOURSELF AND
OTHER WORTHY OPPONENTS.
THE ULTIMATE NEGOTIATION IS WITH
ONE'S SELF AND IN THE
NECESSARILY THE OTHER SIDE.
WILLIAM URY JOINS US TONIGHT.
WELCOME BACK TO THE TOWN OF YOUR
BIRTH.
CHICAGO.
YOU WERE FROM HERE ORIGINALLY
AND YOU HAVE WRITTEN LAND MARK
BOOKS ON NEGOTIATING.
HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT?
>> ROGER FISHER WAS ALSO A
CHICAGO BOY AND SINCE THEN I
HAVE FOCUSED ON THE OTHER SIDE
OF THE TABLE AS BEING DIFFICULT,
HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH BIG EGOS
AND RIGID POSITIONS AND OVER THE
YEARS, IT DAWNED ON ME HOWEVER
DIFFICULT THE OTHER SIDE IS THE
BIGGEST OBSTACLE TO GETTING WHAT
WE WANT IN LIFE AND NEGOTIATIONS
IS HERE, WITH OURSELF.
HOW DO WE PRESENT OBSTACLES TO
SUCCESSFUL NEGOTIATIONINGS, TO
WHICH WE PRESUMABLY WOULD BEEN
FIT?
>> WHEN ANGRY YOU WILL MAKE THE
BEST SPEECH YOU WILL EVER
REGRET.
>> AND SO, YOU TALK ABOUT HOW
NEGOTIATIONS, ARE STRESSFUL.
DOESN'T THAT STRESS SORT OF MAKE
IT DIFFICULT FOR ONE TO ASSESS
AND SORT OF NO ONE'S SELF?
THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT HARD.
THE FOUNDATION OF SUCCESSFUL
NEGOTIATIONS, PHIL, IS SO BE
ABLE, LIKE WE ARE NEGOTIATING ON
STAGE.
PART OF OUR MIND GOES TO A
MENTAL OR EMOTIONAL BALCONY
OVERLOOKING THE STAGE.
A PLACE OF PERSPECTIVE.
A PLACE OF SELF-CONTROL WHERE WE
KEEP OUR EYES ON THE PRIZE.
GOING TO THE BALCONY IS THE
FOUNDATION OF THAT, AND IT IS
NOT EASY TO DO WHEN YOU ARE
UNDER STRESS.
YOU GET AN E MAIL YOU DIDN'T
LIKE, YOU HIT REPLY AND IT GOES
OUT TO THE ENTIRE ORGANIZATION.
WE NEED TO USE THE DRAFT BUTTON.
>> TALK ABOUT OTHER WAYS IN
WHICH A PERSON SABOTAGES HIMSELF
OR HERSELF THAT IS HARMFUL?
>> WE HAVE AN INNER CRITIC IN
OUR HEAD, DOUBTING OURSELVES,
AND GETS IN THE WAIVE OF US
UNDERSTANDING OURSELVES.
SO OFF THAN I FIND IN BIG
NEGOTIATIONS, PEOPLE THINK THEY
KNOW WHAT THEY WANT BUT THEY
DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY REALLY
WANT.
I WAS WORKING WITH A BUSINESS
ENTREPRENEUR IN A HUGE BUSINESS
DISPUTE, AND I ASKED HIM WHAT HE
WANTED, I SAID I WANT THE STOCK
AT A CERTAIN PRICE AND FREEDOM.
WELL ONCE WE KNEW THAT, WE WOULD
GET IT.
HOW DID YOU GET FREEDOM FOR THAT
PERSON IN A SITUATION WHERE HE
WAS TALKING ABOUT STOCK AT A
CERTAIN PRICE.
HOW DID YOU GET TO THAT POINT?
>> ONCE I KNEW, FREEDOM, WHEN I
MET WITH THE OTHER SIDE, OVER IN
PARIS, BETWEEN THE FRENCH
COMPANY AND BRAZILIAN COMPANY I
SAT DOWN WITH THE OTHER
NEGOTIATOR, I SAID LIFE IS TOO
SHORT FOR THESE HUGE DISPUTES,
FOR THEIR FAMILIES, ONE 50,000
EMPLOYEES.
I SAID IF WE COULD GO TWO TWO
PRINCIPLES, ABOUT THE GUYS COULD
BE FREE TO GO ON AND BE FREE.
WHAT DOES FREEDOM MEAN, A
ELIMINATION OF A COMMON COMPETE
CLAUSE AND FIGURED IT OUT IN
FOUR DAYS WE HAD BOTH MEN SIDE
BY SIDE IN THANK YOU OFFICE IN
AGREEMENT, JOYNLT PRESS
CONFERENCE WISHING EACH OTHER
WELL AND MEETING WITH EXECUTIVES
AND HE SAID I GOT MY LIFE BACK.
IN THE SITUATION THAT YOU JUST
DESCRIBED, IT SOUNDED LIKE ABOUT
THE SIDES NEEDED INTERMEDIARIES
TO SORT OF THINK OF WHAT IT WAS
THEY WANTED.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE
ONE, WHEN ONE IS JUST ACTING ON
ONE'S, ACTING FOR ONE'S SELF.
IN THE ABSENCE OF A MEDIATOR,
WHICH YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU HAVE
TO MEDIATE YOUR OWN DISPUTE AND
LEARN...
>> THAT IS WHAT THE BOOK IS
ABOUT?
>> BASICALLY DESIGNED FOR, IF
YOU DON'T HAVE AN INTERMEDIARY,
WHAT CAN YOU DO TO PRACTICE?
THANKFULLY WE CAN PRACTICE EVERY
DAY BECAUSE WE ARE WITH
OURSELVES, 24-7.
IF YOU PRACTICE A LITTLE BIT
LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, BEFORE YOU
GET INTO A DIFFICULT MEETING OR
DIFFICULT PHONE CALL, TAKE A
MINUTE BY YOURSELF TO GO TO THE
BALCONY AND RELAX, DEAL WITH THE
STRESS AND FOCUS ON WHAT YOU
WANT.
LISTEN TO YOURSELF.
AND THEN YOU WILL BE MORE FK
TIFF IN THAT NEGOTIATION.
PART OF THAT LISTENING TO ONE
SELF, ULTIMATELY BECAUSE SWOCH
OF WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT HAS TO DO
WITH EMPATHY AND LOOKING AT
SOMEONE FROM ANOTHER POINT OF
VIEW, HOW DO YOU MAKE THE
CONNECTION BETWEEN WHAT IT IS
THAT ABOUT YOURSELF GETTING IN
THE WAY AND THEN, WHAT IT IS
THAT SOMEONE ELSE IS ULTIMATELY
AFTER?
>> THE ESSENCE OF NEGOTIATION TO
ME, EVEN THOUGH WE THINK ABOUT
TALKING, OBSERVE THE BEHAVE YOUR
SUCCESSFULLY, YOU FUNTD THEY
LISTEN MORE THAN THEY TALK.
WHY DO WE FIND IT SO HARD TO
LISTEN IN A NEGOTIATION.
BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT LISTENED TO
OURSELVES AND IF WE CAN LISTEN
TO YOU'RESELVES, AND SPEND A
LITTLE BIT OF OUR TIME WE ARE
CLEAR MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL SPACE
SO I CAN TAKE YOU IN AND LISTEN
FROM THE OTHER SIDE.
>> CAN YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF
A NEGOTIATION, WITHOUT NAMING
NAMES, SOMEONE WHO WAS NOT ABLE
TO SAY YES TO THEMSELVES WASN'T
INTO A NEGOTIATION BURDENED BY
ALL THIS STUFF.
>> YOU KNOW, THAT BRAZILIAN
NEGOTIATOR, HE HAD BEEN TWO AND
A HALF YEARS, FALLING OFF THE
BALCONY.
HE HAD BEEN IN THAT SITUATION,
IT WAS DESTROYING HIS LIFE AND
OTHER PERSON'S LIFE BECAUSE HE
COULDN'T CONTROL HIMSELF GOING
TO A BOARD MEETING AND CALLED
HIM SAEFL COWARD.
AND ENGAGED IN AN EYE FOR AN EYE
AND WE ALL GO BLIND.
>> YOU TALKED ABOUT A MINDSET OF
SCARCITY.
WHY IS THIS AN IMPEDIMENT.
ALL OF US SOMETIMES FEEL LIKE
THERE ISN'T ENOUGH TO GO AROUND.
THIS IS LIKE WIN-LOSE, IF I
DON'T GET ANY SHARE AT YOUR
EXPERIENCE, AND WE KNOW WHERE
THAT USUALLY ENDS UP.
YOU GO IN WITH THE SAME ATTITUDE
AND WE END UP IN COURT AND WE
END UP WITH NO RELATIONSHIP.
AND THE ABILITY TO FOR EXAMPLE,
LOOK AT OUR, QUESTION OUR
MINDSET AND SAY, YOU KNOW, MAYBE
THERE IS ENOUGH, THAT ALLOWS US
TO SAY OKAY, MAYBE WE CAN ARRIVE
AT AN AGREEMENT THAT IS GOOD FOR
ME AND GOOD FOR YOU.
ONE OF THE THING THAT YOU SAID
EARLIER, A CONVERSATION WITH
DIGNITY, SAVING FACE.
TELL ME MORE ABOUT THE
IMPORTANCE OF THAT AND ONE
ACHIEVES THAT.
SO MUCH OF A NEGOTIATION, YOU
DON'T WANT TO LOOK LIKE YOU
LOST.
>> IT'S TRUE.
AND I WOULD SAY THAT DIGNITY,
GIVING RESPECT, YOU KNOW MAY BE
THE CHEAPEST CONCESSION THAT YOU
CAN MAKE IN A NEGOTIATION.
COST YOU NOTHING BUT THE OTHER
SIDE'S DIGNITY MEANS EVERYTHING
TO THEM.
AND EVEN IN HOSTAGE
NEGOTIATIONS, I HAVE TRADED IN
HOSTAGE NEGOTIATORS, BE NICE.
TREAT THE OTHER PERSON WITH
RESPECT.
NOT, THE DIGNITY THAT IS
SOMEONE'S BASIC BIRTH RIGHT.
THAT IS THE KEY TO ONE ELSE'S
MIND.
EVEN A BAD GUYS.
WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT
RESPECT, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A
BASIC HUMAN BIRTH RIGHT, TREAT
THEM WITH DIGNITY, WHAT DOES IT
COST?
YOU
>> YOU HAVE DONE HIGH LEVEL
NEGOTIATIONS AND INVOLVED WITH
NEW ENGLANDLAR AGREEMENTS
BETWEEN THE U.S. AND FORMER
U.S.S.R., HOW DID YOU GET
INVOLVED WITH THAT?
I DON'T KNOW, A VARIETY OF
DIFFERENT WAYS.
IN THAT CASE IT WAS THE U.S.
GOVERNMENT AND STILLS IT IS THE
UNITED NATIONS AND SOMETIMES
SOMEONE HAS READ A BOOK, IN A
VARIETY OF DIFFERENT WAYS.
FOR EXAMPLE, I AM WORKING WITH
THE PRESIDENT OF COLUMBIA FOR ON
HOW TO END THE LAST MAJOR WAR IN
THIS HEMISPHERE, WHICH IS...
>> WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
>> WHAT AM I DOING?
>> HOW DO YOU DO IT?
THE TO THE REBELS COME TO THE
TABLE OR SOMETHING?
MPLGTSDS AT THAT POINT THERE
WITH WERE NO REBELS AT THE
TABLE.
WE HAD TO GET PEACE TALKS GOING
ON, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE I'M
MOSTLY INVITED WITH THE
PRESIDENT AND HIS NEGOTIATORS
AND I HAVE BEEN TO HAVANA TO
MEET WITH THE LEADERS OF THE
REBELS AND JUST TRY TO
UNDERSTAND HOW DO YOU CHANGE OUR
MINDSET, FIFTY YEARS OF WAR IN
THE JUNGLE, HOW DO YOU END THAT?
GOOD WILL YOU CAN WITH IT.
I'M HOPING THIS YEAR WILL BE A
YEAR OF PEACE IN COLOMBIA.
THE BOOK IS CALLED GETTING TO