(uplifting music) - Welcome to Business Forward.
I'm your host, Matt George.
Joining me tonight, Todd Ward.
Todd is the Director of the National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research.
Todd, welcome.
- [Todd] Thank you.
Good to be here.
- That was a mouthful.
So, for the sake of the show, you are the Director of the AgLab.
- That's right.
- Okay.
Absolutely.
- Well, we've got a lot to talk about.
Are you from this area?
- [Todd] No, Cincinnati originally.
Came to Peoria in 2000.
- [Matt] 2000, so you've been here a while.
So, what exactly is the AgLab, besides a huge building that has a big fence around it?
- Yeah, the AgLab is a great resource for Peoria, and I think, the whole nation.
It's one of four utilization research laboratories within ARS, which basically means it's a place that ARS has put together, to bring top scientists into one location where they can conduct research that solves problems in agriculture, public health, and biotechnology.
- So, I've read that you studied food safety, and crop disease, for years.
So, let's say crop disease: is that like soybean rust, or something like that?
What's there to study about it, I guess?
- Yeah, absolutely.
So, soybean rust is a good example.
I happen to work on diseases of wheat and barley, but others at the lab have worked on soybean, and soybean rust in particular.
And so, what the major problems are for farmers is, how do we prevent these pests or pathogens from causing problems in our field?
How do we do that in a way that's environmentally and economically sustainable, and, is going to produce, not only a good... amount of food, but high-quality, nutritious food as well?
- [Matt] Okay.
Is it true that you've got 200 plus scientists in that building?
- 200 plus scientists and support staff.
We have about 75 Ph.D. scientists, and then a whole group of folks that are there, both on the technical side, and on the administrative side, to support those scientists in what they do.
- And so, these are people from all over the United States, right?
- [Todd] Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Wow.
- [Todd] And internationally, as well.
- And internationally.
So... crop bioprotection, what does that mean?
- So, our Crop Bioprotection Unit focuses on ways to protect crops, using biological means.
So, I'm sure everybody's familiar with herbicides and chemicals that are used to keep pests and things out of your garden.
Same thing is used on farms, but, the Crop Bioprotection Unit takes a slightly different approach; they try to use biological methods, mostly microorganisms, but also some plant-derived compounds, and other things, that take pests out of our crop production system, allowing farmers to produce in a way that's environmentally sustainable.
- I mean, when I was doing all my research on what the AgLab does, I was just blown away by how many different...projects, and different things that you do -- penicillin was invented there, correct?
- Absolutely.
Well, penicillin wasn't invented there, but the mass production mechanism was, yeah.
- [Matt] Mass production was.
Yeah, okay.
So... tell me what you do on a daily basis.
- Yeah, I try to keep track of things.
(Matt laughs) So, I've been there 21 years and, as you said, there's just so many projects going on with 75 scientists, and all those support staff.
My goal is to provide an environment in which they can do the great work that they are there to do.
So, part of that is guiding research programs and decision making, and the other part of it is just keeping the trains running on time, so that scientists can get done, what they need to get done.
- Are you funded by grants?
Take a project as an example.
Do you write a grant, and get that, or is it federally funded?
How are your projects all funded?
- It's a mix of both, but primarily, we're funded through congressional appropriations, through the USDA's budget.
We have, I believe it's 22 congressionally appropriated projects.
Those are sort of our big, mainline research project.
This is what Congress and USDA have said, "These are what we need you guys to do."
But, we augment that with grants and a variety of cooperative relationships, collaborations, partnerships, both with industry, and with other academic or scientific institutions.
- Interesting.
So... when you're talking about one of the units that you have -- the Functional Foods Unit, explain that.
What does that mean?
- Yeah, they are a food technology unit, really devoted to developing new processing methods and procedures, to help...food companies make food more healthy, and more nutritious, and more palatable to consumers.
It's easy to make things healthy, in a way, it's tough to make it healthy, and something that people actually want to eat.
- So, give me some examples of that.
So... a meat-packing company, as an example?
- Well, so, we do a lot of work, particularly with companies that are going to use some sort of flowers in their food processing -- cookies, crackers, some things like that, so, how can we incorporate more healthy, nutritious ingredients into those things?
So, a lot of that would be, instead of just grain, using whole grain, and how do we make that so that it's something that's palatable?
Or, some other things, like using legumes, and things that are really high in protein, maybe.
Right now, they're working on some ways to incorporate sorghum into those kids of products.
Sorghum has a number of health benefits, a lot of antioxidants, but it's not something that is something we're used to eating, so you have to develop some new technologies around ways to utilize and process those foods into something that's healthy and palatable.
- And, so, I picture a lab, you actually have labs in the building -- separate labs doing different projects.
How many -- is that how it looks to an average person?
- Yeah, absolutely.
It's over 270 thousand square feet of space in that building.
- Whoo!
It's a big place.
- And, there are a variety of different kinds of laboratories set up for the different types of work that we do, and really, it is very interdisciplinary, lot of different scientists, a lot of different backgrounds, and therefore, a lot of different physical space needs.
So, there's everything from individual laboratories -- maybe just one scientist and a few support people, up to our pilot bay, where we're really scaling up bench-scale research to something that is ready to be transferred over to industry.
- I mean, do you have things that you can't talk about?
- Well, we certainly -- we're a public agency, so we want to do everything as transparently as possible.
We do have agreements with companies and other institutions, where there is intellectual property involved, and so, we have grants and agreement specialists in the building, who help us keep track of what, and when, to make that work public.
- This isn't a loaded question.
And I don't usually, at all, go the political route, but your work is so important, how is it ever up on the chopping block for funding?
I don't understand that.
I've never understood that.
And, I know, a few years ago, there was some talk, and I'm sitting here, going, that doesn't even make sense to me.
- Well, it didn't make sense to us either, but I don't make those decisions.
And, Congress does decide what are the priorities for funding.
And, so, several years ago, we were put on a proposed closure list, but ultimately, Congress rejected those proposals, and said, "No, this is incredibly important work, "and we're gonna maintain it, "and strengthen it."
- (scoffs) I would think food safety would be up there, across the whole world, as some of the most important research that you could do.
- Yeah, everybody's gotta eat.
- (laughing) Everybody's got to eat -- that's very true.
So... bio oils, let's talk about that.
New plant oils: so, give me some examples of what you mean by that.
- [Todd] Sure.
Starting back in the '90s, scientists in that unit discovered some new types of oils.
They're called estolides.
But, the key thing about them, is it's a plant-derived oil, that actually has properties that enable it to replace petroleum-based products as sort of a motor fuel oil, so something you could actually put in your car.
And, in fact, that was developed at our laboratory, those estolide technologies, and licensed out to a company, Biosynthetic Technologies, which was in Indianapolis.
I think they still are.
And, that company is producing bio-based motor oil.
So, by replacing petroleum, it's more environmentally friendly, but it has all of the performance characteristics that are required for certification.
So, you could put it in your car, and not void your warranty -- things like that.
That was originally developed from things like sunflower oil, but over the years, scientists there have found ways to use high oleic acid soybeans, and others, and now, looking at new types of oils that could go into that process.
- So, I find all of this very interesting and fascinating, and kind of over my head, to be honest with you, but at the same time, the impact of what all of you do, really, you can't even put a price tag on it.
Not too many jobs can say that, if you think about it.
Because it is, it's safety and health.
Is that correct?
- It's safety and health, and solving problems for farmers, and for industry.
- And, so, how do you -- you have a lot of farmers around here, and, what, do you go through a farm bureau, or, who is your... Tell me some communications that you have research-wise.
Are there research lots?
Farms?
- Yeah, so, the first part of that question, do you know, what we want to do first, before we develop a project, is listen to -- if it's going to be a project about, say, something that's going to impact farmers directly, we want to listen to farmers about what their actual problems are, so we know we're doing the right research.
So, we'll talk to individual farmers, of course, but we also talk to their representative organizations, whether that's the United Soybean Board, or the National Corn Growers Association, groups like that, that really help us match what farmers need and want, with what we can provide from a research and science perspective.
And, then, we do collaborate with universities: Illinois State, the University of Illinois, for instance, to work on their field plots.
Our location over by I-74 is landlocked; you're not gonna see a lot of farm area around there, so we develop collaborations to do that work through universities, and others.
- Yeah, I went to University of Illinois, and I know the lots that you're talking about, and I always wondered how it was tied to something like you, and other groups.
So...talk about...technology.
What role does technology play in everything that you do?
It's in everything?
- It's in everything we do.
- Yeah, absolutely.
So, I'd say the biggest change in technology over the last 20 or 30 years has been genomics, and the ability to rapidly sequence the genomes of organisms, and that has given us an opportunity to understand some of the questions that we've always been interested in, but at an entirely different level.
And, it's also given us an opportunity to then, develop solutions to problems that previously just weren't solvable.
- [Matt] Like what?
- So, for instance, understanding why a plant is susceptible to a particular disease agent, and then, is there a way then, that we can develop a mitigation strategy, that's gonna help that plant build in a natural defense against whatever that disease or pest is.
- So, this is kind of a joke, but, do you have a great garden at home, cause you know how to beat everything?
(chuckles) - I enjoy gardening, but I don't bring my work home with me, in that regard.
- (laughs) I'm just teasing.
So... this is just amazing.
So, I don't even know if I'm gonna pronounce this right: Mycotoxin Prevention and Applied Microbiology Unit.
- You got it.
- [Matt] Okay.
Why don't you tell me what that means, in English?
- Sure.
So, mycotoxin are just toxic compounds that are made by fungi, and they are mostly a problem with cereal grains, but -- - Mold?
Yeah, mold, exactly.
- So, there are, for instance, the wheat and barley diseases I used to work on, they're caused by these molds, the molds cause harm to the plants, and destroy the crop.
So, that's one way that there's a loss, but they also contaminate any grain you do get out of those plants.
They can contaminate that with toxic compounds, and those compounds are bad for animals, and they're also bad for people.
So, that unit is really focused on two aspects of that mycotoxin -- the fungal toxin problem: how to keep fungi, the molds, out of the crops in the first place, and then, if they do end up in there, how do we detect that the toxins are in our food, and get that stuff out of the food supply?
And, they've been incredibly successful on both counts, and in particular, on the toxin detection technologies.
That unit has identified ways to find toxins in grain, and other products.
They're now used all around the world.
- [Matt] How do they do that?
That's a technology -- - [Todd] It's a technology.
It's largely based on antibodies that are developed specifically for -- imagine biological materials, proteins, that can bind to toxins, and then, use that binding to tell us, hey, that toxin is there.
So, they've developed those materials, and licensed out those technologies, and that's in use essentially everywhere that you're going to find any kind of grain processing activity.
- [Matt] Interesting.
And, does this play into beers and everything else?
You're talking about barley.
- It does, actually.
- Last year, we just added a new program, working in consultation with the American Malt and Barley Association, to expand that work, which had largely focused on wheat up until then, over to barley, to one: again, keep these molds out of the crops, but barley is also susceptible to molding over during the brewing process, the steeping process.
- [Matt] Oh, I didn't know that.
- So, we're now working on ways to help them do an even better job.
They do a good job already, but do an even better job of making sure that, that doesn't happen, and disrupt their production.
- So, to put it simply, let's take a -- and you tell me if I'm right or wrong -- take a...Samuel Adams, and that company sits here, and they go through this process.
If there's something -- mold or something that got into that batch, they would have to close down that whole plant.
Is that correct?
Or, that whole batch, whatever.
- Yeah, it would certainly cause losses and disruptions to production.
- Production and money.
Yeah, absolutely.
- So, in a way, you are helping eliminate some of these risks that these businesses -- I'm just using beer as an example, but there's some commercials right now, out, with some grocery stores.
They talk about the... the beef that they serve has no chemicals.
So, what do they mean by that?
Just the chemicals in the plants, that they eat?
- Well, I have to say, one area we don't do much research in, is on the animal side.
- [Matt] But, the plants -- - On the plant side, and getting back to the beer example, for instance, beer companies and malting companies would use our technologies, or technologies that are licensed, that came from Peoria, to make sure that the barley they buy, or the grain that they buy on the front end, is free of these molds.
And then, they can monitor any little bit of mold that might grow out during the process, using those same technologies.
What we'd like to be able to do, is help them to eliminate that mold in a way that is gonna to be acceptable, from both a consumer, and a product quality perspective.
So, we're, right now, working on some biogumigants that you could work into that process, that would be naturally occurring compounds, not chemicals and other synthetics, to rid that barley of any contaminants, and make sure that it can be used safely for brewing high-quality beer.
- So, when you see, driving through the country in middle Illinois here, and you see these grain bins, and some of them are massive, how do they keep -- I'm guessing technology, and some of the processes you're talking about, but how do they keep everything dry, and how do they keep everything safe in those big, huge bins?
- Right.
Well, they do have dryers that, they're going to bring that product in, hopefully dry to begin with.
That's why it stands in the field for so long.
If it's still a little bit wet, they can put it through a drying process before they put it into storage.
We are working to help them better monitor that grain in storage, make sure that it isn't gonna mold over, and isn't gonna end up with these sorts of problems.
- It's amazing because, you drive by a farm, and you just think there's corn, but there's so much to it.
And, I'm not being silly in saying this, there is so much to being a farmer, there's so much... of risk of... having your crop go bad, and it's just an interesting business.
And, the more -- I'm not an expert at all, as you can tell by my questioning, but I think it is interesting, the angle that you bring into it.
I've got about a hundred more questions that, I should have had a farmer on here too, right?
- Yeah, that would've been great.
Farming's a high-tech industry right now, anyways, and so, we're built into part of that.
- As part of it.
Yeah.
- You're just a complimentary service to help them elevate risk, is that true?
- I guess that's one way to put it.
We like to solve problems for them, and by solving their problems, we reduce risk.
- Okay.
So, the AgLab is growing.
What does that mean?
- So, because of the being on the closure list in the president's budget several years ago, there was a hiring freeze that went on with that, and that went on, for us, for a little over two years of not being able to hire people, so, you could imagine there's a lot of vacancies that come around over time, with that.
So, we're trying to fill those vacancies now, but we're also growing our programs.
And, so, like I said, last year, we added a new program on malting barley, and that's gonna help us bring in new scientists and new support staff, to help solve those problems, but also, to fill the facility back up.
We have 75 scientists, or thereabouts, right now, but that facility was built to hold more, and to do more research.
So, we have some excess capacity there, that we'd like to add new research programs in, to address.
- Do you work with other countries, or is this mainly just the United States?
- Well, we're obviously focused on problems that are important to the United States, but most of the farming, and pathogens, and things like that, those are all international issues.
So, we work very widely, and very broadly, with international collaborators and cooperators -- dozens and dozens of countries around the world.
- How did you get into this business?
- Well, that's a good question.
I went to school, I was interested in biology, I was interested in pretty much anything to do with genetics, so I got a Ph.D. in genetics at Texas A&M University, and I got an opportunity to come up here, and work on the genetics, and the evolution of these molds that cause the problems we talked about earlier, and that was my first opportunity to really work in agriculture.
And, you know, I just enjoyed that, and I found some new things: I worked on bacterial foodborne pathogens -- things that cause spoilage in your food, and foodborne illness, so that was a new opportunity to work at the nexus of agriculture and public health.
And, I just found that fascinating, and I liked being able to do science, but also to help solve some real-world problems.
- It's interesting because, what you're saying, and where you're at now -- now, in the position you're at, you're really a project manager for 75 plus scientists, and everything.
I mean, you've got your hand in just about everything there, don't ya?
- Yeah, and trust me, I couldn't tell you everything -- everything about every project down there, for instance.
I'm not a chemist, so they have to explain that stuff to me sometimes, as well.
But, it's a great opportunity to really understand, and really get involved in projects, just all across the spectrum of science and agriculture.
- Yeah, you're in a job where, I guess the learning never ends, right?
- [Todd] No, absolutely.
- [Matt] And coming with that, you're talking about technology, and with technology constantly turning, and getting better, how do you stay up with that?
- You spend a lot of time reading.
You spend a lot of time reading, you spend a lot of time talking to -- you know, I'm down there with -- - Experts.
Just experts.
- Absolute experts, and not just the 75 scientists.
The support staff we have there, they know science inside and out.
It's a great group of people, and pretty much anything you need to know or want to learn, somebody down there knows it, and they can explain it to you.
- It's a very smart building then, right?
(chuckles) - Absolutely.
It's a great place to work.
- [Matt] That's awesome.
So, mentoring in your business: do you have somebody that you teach constantly, or, who's your mentor?
Do you have somebody that you look at, and you go, man, I couldn't be here with what I'm doing, without this person?
- Yeah, I think, like most people, and in most industries, you have different mentors, and multiple mentors, throughout your career.
And, the first boss I had at USDA, Dr. Cletus Kurtzman, he was a fantastic scientist, and a fantastic boss, really taught me about ARS, but also taught me about how to do science within the ARS system, and how to address key problems.
But, like I said, your mentors change over time, and down at the lab, the scientists there are all engaged in mentoring at some level, whether that's with the technical support staff, or with post-doctoral scientists -- that's people who have a Ph.D., but still need the sort of training before they get a permanent position, and we also have students come through.
So, as a scientist at the lab, I've had students from all over the world.
I've had an opportunity to come to my lab, and I've had an opportunity to learn with them, and from them, doing research together, so that's been a great experience as well.
- I was going to ask you about interns, and having people come in, because, if you're looking for 20 scientists, how do you put a -- you don't go on Indeed for that, right?
(Matt chuckles) - Yeah, so for our scientist positions, we're gonna advertise it's a government position, so everything's advertised through the government means.
But, also, we will target those advertisements to professional societies, where those kinds of scientists work and live, and then, out to the universities that have strong programs in a particular area.
Now, that's for the Ph.D. level.
But we also have programs, all the way down to grade school levels, that we're trying to do outreach, and to get kids interested in science and technology, from a very early age.
Obviously, that's been put on hold a little bit over the last year, but even then, we're still doing a lot of virtual outreach activities with students, both here in the local community -- we just developed a new relationship with the Chicago High School for Agricultural Sciences, and we're working with them.
- Oh, nice.
- And then, any opportunity we can to bring in visiting fellows or students, that's a win for us, and hopefully we're giving them something that's gonna keep them interested in science, as they move forward.
- [Matt] And we need it.
I mean, you're always looking for somebody, correct?
- [Todd] Yeah, absolutely.
- I mean -- Absolutely.
- So, we're almost done here, but the world's largest freely accessible collection of bacteria -- - And fungi.
- And fungi.
Yep.
- So, that's the ARS culture collection, and it's named, or it's got an acronym that goes along with the lab's original name, the Northern Regional Research Lab, or NRRL, and that NRRL collection is about 100 thousand microbes -- bacteria and fungi, and they've been collected, and studied by scientists all over the world, for the last hundred years.
- That's awesome.
- And, it's just a warehouse of information and technological capability.
Each of those microbes has special properties that can be used to address some scientific question.
We use those, but we also make them available to the entire scientific public.
- Well, Todd Ward, Director of the AgLab, this was fun.
Thanks for joining us tonight.
You can come back anytime.
- All right.
- [Matt] Cause I think I could come up with a few more questions.
It's another episode of Business Forward, and I'm Matt George.
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