WEBVTT 00:01.668 --> 00:03.470 - [Voiceover] Production funding for 00:03.470 --> 00:06.540 Behind the Headlines is made possible in part by 00:06.540 --> 00:10.577 the WKNO Production Fund, the WKNO Endowment Fund, 00:10.577 --> 00:12.179 and by viewers like you. 00:12.179 --> 00:13.714 Thank you. 00:13.714 --> 00:16.550 - Speaker Beth Harwell on the gas tax, the surplus 00:16.550 --> 00:19.953 and more tonight on Behind the Headlines. 00:21.321 --> 00:24.825 (upbeat orchestral music) 00:38.772 --> 00:40.807 I'm Eric Barnes, publisher of The Memphis Daily News. 00:40.807 --> 00:42.342 Thanks for joining us. 00:42.342 --> 00:44.978 I am joined tonight by Beth Harwell, Speaker of the House. 00:44.978 --> 00:45.913 Thank you for being here. 00:45.913 --> 00:47.414 - You bet, I enjoy it. 00:47.414 --> 00:48.382 - And thanks for us letting us use this great space 00:48.382 --> 00:49.583 here at the capitol. 00:49.583 --> 00:51.118 - Absolutely, isn't it beautiful? 00:51.118 --> 00:51.952 We have a beautiful state capitol. 00:51.952 --> 00:52.786 - Yes, it's great. 00:52.786 --> 00:54.321 So, the session started. 00:54.321 --> 00:56.056 It's a quiet week but things really heat up next week. 00:56.056 --> 00:58.558 You've got a $2 billion surplus, a super majority, 00:58.558 --> 01:01.561 federal government is now all Republicans, 01:01.561 --> 01:03.497 so this should be the easiest session of your life, right? 01:03.497 --> 01:04.965 Everyone's gonna be totally in agreement. 01:04.965 --> 01:07.768 - Well, maybe it's be careful what you wish for, 01:07.768 --> 01:08.969 because we do have a lot of work ahead of us. 01:08.969 --> 01:11.071 - Where are those divisions, seriously? 01:11.071 --> 01:12.906 Because you do have that super majority, 01:12.906 --> 01:14.608 and I think people who don't follow the capitol closely 01:14.608 --> 01:17.110 think, well, they'll just be able to do 01:17.110 --> 01:18.912 whatever they want real simply, real quickly. 01:18.912 --> 01:20.480 But there are divisions even among Republicans. 01:20.480 --> 01:22.349 - Sure, especially in a body as large as the House. 01:22.349 --> 01:25.319 When you have 74 Republicans in the body of 99, 01:25.319 --> 01:27.321 there's gonna be differences of opinion. 01:27.321 --> 01:29.423 This is a very beautiful and diverse state, 01:29.423 --> 01:31.458 and my members reflect that. 01:31.458 --> 01:34.027 I mean, when you have a $2 billion surplus, 01:34.027 --> 01:36.596 that's argument number one, how to spend it. 01:36.596 --> 01:38.498 - In those divisions, so in Memphis 01:38.498 --> 01:40.467 people tend to think, "Well, it's really, 01:40.467 --> 01:42.436 "the legislature just cares about the rest of the state." 01:42.436 --> 01:45.172 Now, I imagine everybody in the state thinks that. 01:45.172 --> 01:46.540 You know, the people in the east Tennessee, 01:46.540 --> 01:47.808 the people in the middle Tennessee. 01:47.808 --> 01:49.876 But from your point of view, the divisions, 01:49.876 --> 01:51.411 do they tend to be regional? 01:51.411 --> 01:52.612 Are they city versus rural? 01:52.612 --> 01:54.147 Where are those divisions? 01:54.147 --> 01:56.516 And I don't mean to make too much of them, 01:56.516 --> 01:57.751 but those differences of opinions. 01:57.751 --> 01:59.252 - Well, I'm very proud of my members 01:59.252 --> 02:00.454 because, ultimately at the end of the day, 02:00.454 --> 02:01.855 we put Tennessee first. 02:01.855 --> 02:03.023 But there is division between rural and urban guys, 02:03.023 --> 02:05.492 that's the main division that happens. 02:05.492 --> 02:07.995 You're blessed in Memphis to have a great delegation 02:07.995 --> 02:10.097 representing you in the state house, 02:10.097 --> 02:11.898 and so I look forward to working with them. 02:11.898 --> 02:14.067 - The surplus, which people have talked a lot about, 02:14.067 --> 02:15.502 break down the surplus for me. 02:15.502 --> 02:18.438 I mean, it's not a recurring surplus. 02:18.438 --> 02:19.840 - That's right. 02:19.840 --> 02:21.775 - That's part of the caution you have right now, 02:21.775 --> 02:23.977 is you gotta plan for this is not gonna be forever. 02:23.977 --> 02:25.479 - Absolutely. 02:25.479 --> 02:27.414 It's two billion, that's true, but only one of that 02:27.414 --> 02:29.116 is reoccurring money. 02:29.116 --> 02:32.753 And we have been fiscally very well managed in this state 02:32.753 --> 02:35.589 in that we don't spend non-reoccurring money 02:35.589 --> 02:37.090 on reoccurring costs. 02:37.090 --> 02:39.092 So, if you're gonna put it in something 02:39.092 --> 02:40.360 that you know is gonna cost you again next year, 02:40.360 --> 02:41.695 that's wrong, you shouldn't do that. 02:41.695 --> 02:43.130 - And some of the biggest news right now 02:43.130 --> 02:45.632 certainly is the proposal that Governor Haslam 02:45.632 --> 02:48.101 has put forward for transportation funding, and a gas tax. 02:48.101 --> 02:49.403 It's been talked about for years. 02:49.403 --> 02:50.937 It goes back to the whole idea 02:50.937 --> 02:52.639 that cars have gotten so much more fuel efficient 02:52.639 --> 02:54.274 and there's been no change in the gas tax, 02:54.274 --> 02:55.409 so it generates a whole lot less money. 02:55.409 --> 02:56.710 - Right. 02:56.710 --> 02:59.046 - Where do you stand on the governor's proposal? 02:59.046 --> 03:00.414 - Well, I'm gonna keep an open mind 03:00.414 --> 03:02.449 as I've encouraged my members to do, as well. 03:02.449 --> 03:03.750 I mean, the Tennessee General Assembly 03:03.750 --> 03:05.352 does not raise taxes lightly. 03:05.352 --> 03:07.254 I mean, this is a heavy lift. 03:07.254 --> 03:08.989 But on the other hand, 03:08.989 --> 03:10.957 we haven't raised the gas tax in 28 years. 03:10.957 --> 03:13.260 And, as you said, cars are more fuel efficient 03:13.260 --> 03:16.496 and we've got a lot more road to maintain. 03:16.496 --> 03:19.733 Part of, I believe in a very limited government, 03:19.733 --> 03:21.568 and we should perform those limited roles well. 03:21.568 --> 03:23.303 And one of those roles is infrastructure. 03:23.303 --> 03:26.373 - How about this whole, again we talked about urban/rural 03:26.373 --> 03:28.575 and again, just thinking of Memphis, 03:28.575 --> 03:30.410 the cities in Tennessee have different needs 03:30.410 --> 03:31.645 than suburban areas 03:31.645 --> 03:33.180 and, certainly, than rural areas. 03:33.180 --> 03:35.782 - Memphis has different needs than Nashville. 03:35.782 --> 03:38.018 Is there a formula that you, a way of doing this 03:38.018 --> 03:39.486 that satisfies that? 03:39.486 --> 03:41.288 That maybe Memphis wants to put money in bike lanes, 03:41.288 --> 03:43.523 and roads, and Lamar Avenue, and all that, 03:43.523 --> 03:45.725 but also bike lanes and mass transit 03:45.725 --> 03:48.261 in a way that other districts, that's just not their issue. 03:48.261 --> 03:49.096 - Well, the Department of Transportation 03:49.096 --> 03:50.964 prioritizes projects. 03:50.964 --> 03:54.167 And it has at least one project in all 95 counties 03:54.167 --> 03:56.236 that they would like to get started. 03:56.236 --> 03:58.271 If we were able to successfully 03:58.271 --> 04:00.173 push this through the legislature, 04:00.173 --> 04:03.844 we would begin all the backlog projects in six years. 04:03.844 --> 04:05.378 And you're right, Memphis is different. 04:05.378 --> 04:07.848 I know Lamar Parkway is a huge deal for you all. 04:07.848 --> 04:11.518 And my rural guys in Nashville, it's a mass transit issue. 04:11.518 --> 04:14.955 So, we give flexibility somewhat to local governments, 04:14.955 --> 04:17.090 but then we have an overall strategy for the state. 04:17.090 --> 04:18.391 - There was some talk early, I mean, 04:18.391 --> 04:19.826 again we're early in the session, 04:19.826 --> 04:22.129 but proposals with, again, with that surplus, 04:22.129 --> 04:23.530 of trying to figure out a way 04:23.530 --> 04:25.966 to shift some of it back locally 04:25.966 --> 04:27.267 and based on population, and contributions, 04:27.267 --> 04:28.568 so on and so forth. 04:28.568 --> 04:29.770 For a place like Memphis, 04:29.770 --> 04:30.770 I think the number one proposal 04:30.770 --> 04:32.005 that I believe Senator Kelsey, 04:32.005 --> 04:33.874 maybe Senator Norris had on the other side, 04:33.874 --> 04:35.809 was a 50 million dollars plus 04:35.809 --> 04:37.744 that would be returned to Memphis. 04:37.744 --> 04:39.646 Other areas it'd be more or less, whatever. 04:39.646 --> 04:40.847 Your thoughts on that kind of thing, 04:40.847 --> 04:42.682 of getting the money back to the local areas. 04:42.682 --> 04:44.518 - Well, we definitely want to, as much as possible, 04:44.518 --> 04:45.886 give it to back to its rightful owner, 04:45.886 --> 04:47.387 which is the taxpayer. 04:47.387 --> 04:50.157 - But to come up with a formula like that, 04:50.157 --> 04:52.993 I think would be very complicated at this point. 04:52.993 --> 04:55.328 And, you know, the state continues to have needs. 04:55.328 --> 04:56.763 - The cities also, in Memphis there's a lot of talk 04:56.763 --> 04:58.698 about the Hall income tax, 04:58.698 --> 05:01.101 which is an income tax not on payroll 05:01.101 --> 05:03.770 but on investments and savings, is being phased out. 05:03.770 --> 05:05.105 I guess that's sort of last year, am I right? 05:05.105 --> 05:06.573 - Right. 05:06.573 --> 05:08.508 - There's a lot of concern among city government 05:08.508 --> 05:09.943 that a lot of that money it's, 05:09.943 --> 05:12.045 I can't remember how many millions of dollars to the city, 05:12.045 --> 05:13.947 where is that gonna come from? 05:13.947 --> 05:15.549 Do you worry in this era of, 05:15.549 --> 05:17.317 I mean, no one likes to pay taxes. 05:17.317 --> 05:19.853 I mean, we all know that, we start with that premise. 05:19.853 --> 05:22.055 But in this era of cutting and reducing taxes, 05:22.055 --> 05:23.957 that you almost go too far 05:23.957 --> 05:26.426 because you deplete the resources 05:26.426 --> 05:28.128 and, as you said, at the end of the day 05:28.128 --> 05:29.596 the state does have needs, it does have spending needs. 05:29.596 --> 05:30.630 - Right, right. 05:30.630 --> 05:32.199 And I would agree to that. 05:32.199 --> 05:33.767 I've cautioned my members, 05:33.767 --> 05:35.368 let's be fiscally responsible about this. 05:35.368 --> 05:37.537 Everyone likes to vote for the projects, 05:37.537 --> 05:39.206 nobody likes to vote for the funding. 05:39.206 --> 05:42.542 And that's lying to people, that's dishonest. 05:42.542 --> 05:45.011 So, I would say with the Hall income tax, 05:45.011 --> 05:47.314 it will be completely phased out by 2022. 05:47.314 --> 05:49.749 We tried to set it up so that it's an incremental, 05:49.749 --> 05:52.252 so it doesn't hit city governments all at once. 05:52.252 --> 05:53.687 But it is a legitimate concern. 05:53.687 --> 05:56.189 It is here in Nashville, as well. 05:56.189 --> 05:58.058 - What's the Rainy Day Fund now? 05:58.058 --> 06:00.760 What's in it and what do you wanna see, 06:00.760 --> 06:03.163 what would your goal be for how much, 06:03.163 --> 06:04.764 what's the appropriate amount to go into the Rainy Day Fund? 06:04.764 --> 06:06.099 - Well, every year since I've been Speaker, 06:06.099 --> 06:07.968 we have added to the Rainy Day Fund. 06:07.968 --> 06:10.570 We had to deplete it during some economic hard times. 06:10.570 --> 06:12.672 But we've got about enough in the Rainy Day Fund 06:12.672 --> 06:15.609 to keep state government going for about 23 days 06:15.609 --> 06:17.143 if everything went south. 06:17.143 --> 06:18.778 So, we are building it back up and that's a good thing. 06:18.778 --> 06:21.314 It allows us to have a Triple-A bond rating. 06:21.314 --> 06:23.083 And when your financial house is in order, 06:23.083 --> 06:25.485 everything else runs much smoother. 06:25.485 --> 06:27.220 - Back to, again, cities and urban, 06:27.220 --> 06:29.422 we were talking about the different needs 06:29.422 --> 06:31.458 that transportation might have, on the transportation front. 06:31.458 --> 06:34.127 But there's, I think it was the governor who said, 06:34.127 --> 06:36.663 and I've paraphrased this before, maybe last year, 06:36.663 --> 06:38.665 that he was worried there was this sort of decidedly 06:38.665 --> 06:41.434 growing anti-city tone in the legislature. 06:41.434 --> 06:44.037 I think he says that as a former mayor, of course, 06:44.037 --> 06:46.473 and someone who's been in Nashville, and so on. 06:46.473 --> 06:47.474 Do you see that? 06:47.474 --> 06:48.708 Do you see an anti-city tone 06:48.708 --> 06:51.378 in some of the things that happened last year? 06:51.378 --> 06:52.779 And do you think that could happen again this year? 06:52.779 --> 06:54.514 - Well, I certainly hope not. 06:54.514 --> 06:56.616 Our cities are where people live. 06:56.616 --> 06:58.818 This is a wonderful state. 06:58.818 --> 07:01.788 But I do think that when the cities go, 07:01.788 --> 07:03.790 begin to encroach on state government, 07:03.790 --> 07:06.192 then you're gonna have to have a little pushback, 07:06.192 --> 07:07.661 just like state government when the Feds, 07:07.661 --> 07:10.030 when we encroach on the Feds, they push back on us. 07:10.030 --> 07:12.132 So, we have three levels of government for a reason. 07:12.132 --> 07:14.000 And each of them serves a very valuable function 07:14.000 --> 07:15.468 in our citizens' lives. 07:15.468 --> 07:17.570 And we wanna keep that distinction clear. 07:17.570 --> 07:19.606 - One of those that, some people, I mean, 07:19.606 --> 07:21.841 de-annexation is a huge issue in Memphis, 07:21.841 --> 07:23.410 and it was a big issue in Chattanooga. 07:23.410 --> 07:25.111 Big issue last year, it went to summer study, 07:25.111 --> 07:27.447 and, you know, the task force in Memphis 07:27.447 --> 07:28.515 is about to make its recommendations. 07:28.515 --> 07:30.383 You guys have convened. 07:30.383 --> 07:32.452 Is that an appropriate place for the state 07:32.452 --> 07:36.089 to get involved with how cities have annexed or de-annexed? 07:36.089 --> 07:37.457 I mean, in Memphis, 07:37.457 --> 07:39.426 there are people who will write me 07:39.426 --> 07:41.461 ugly emails for saying this, 07:41.461 --> 07:43.530 but there's a point of view that de-annexation 07:43.530 --> 07:45.031 may have been unpopular, it may have been. 07:45.031 --> 07:47.534 But it was litigated, it was done according to the law, 07:47.534 --> 07:49.035 and that's what the proponents say. 07:49.035 --> 07:50.937 If there's gonna be some de-annexing, 07:50.937 --> 07:53.907 it can happen through the City Council and locally. 07:53.907 --> 07:57.410 But last year it almost was dictated by the legislature. 07:57.410 --> 07:59.879 Is that an overreach by the legislature? 07:59.879 --> 08:01.748 To tell cities like Chattanooga, 08:01.748 --> 08:03.249 like Memphis, and elsewhere, 08:03.249 --> 08:04.984 how they should make up their boundaries, and so on. 08:04.984 --> 08:06.886 - Of course, you know what, it depends on who you ask. 08:06.886 --> 08:07.721 (both laugh) 08:07.721 --> 08:09.089 - Well, I'm asking you. 08:09.089 --> 08:10.357 - It's like most things. 08:10.357 --> 08:12.258 It's hard for me because I have to admit 08:12.258 --> 08:13.893 I represent the Nashville area, 08:13.893 --> 08:15.995 which is a metropolitan form of government. 08:15.995 --> 08:17.864 So, it's not, it's not real to my world. 08:17.864 --> 08:19.399 I do know that it mattered tremendously 08:19.399 --> 08:21.101 to my Memphis delegation. 08:21.101 --> 08:24.471 And I tried to work with them as best I could. 08:24.471 --> 08:27.674 - Another local issue, and I don't know, it's a local issue 08:27.674 --> 08:30.310 but the state has laws and so on in crime. 08:30.310 --> 08:31.811 And crime, obviously, 08:31.811 --> 08:34.748 nationwide there's been a spike in violent crime. 08:34.748 --> 08:36.483 Memphis had a terrible run-up 08:36.483 --> 08:38.184 in the homicide rate last year. 08:38.184 --> 08:39.886 Other crimes were level or down. 08:39.886 --> 08:41.621 But that murder rates makes, 08:41.621 --> 08:42.756 and I interchange murder and homicide 08:42.756 --> 08:44.057 and people criticize me for that, 08:44.057 --> 08:47.861 but they're horrible either way you count it. 08:47.861 --> 08:51.097 It was up, and what can the state do? 08:51.097 --> 08:53.800 Is that a priority at the state level 08:53.800 --> 08:57.003 to help the localities fight crime? 08:57.003 --> 08:58.905 - Well, we certainly set the statue 08:58.905 --> 09:01.341 as far as how much penalty there is. 09:01.341 --> 09:03.743 I think there's gonna be a push this year 09:03.743 --> 09:06.980 to re-evaluate the laws that on the books. 09:06.980 --> 09:08.815 Again, that's another part of the code 09:08.815 --> 09:10.650 we really haven't updated in about 20 years. 09:10.650 --> 09:12.419 So, there's some inconsistencies there. 09:12.419 --> 09:14.521 We'd like to get our sentencing more consistent 09:14.521 --> 09:16.523 across the board, and be realistic. 09:16.523 --> 09:19.459 Prison beds are a valuable resource, 09:19.459 --> 09:20.894 and there's only so many of them. 09:20.894 --> 09:22.262 And so, who's on our prison bed 09:22.262 --> 09:23.463 should be the most hardened criminals, 09:23.463 --> 09:25.698 not the white collar crime. 09:27.033 --> 09:28.001 So, we need to go back through our books 09:28.001 --> 09:29.869 and make some changes. 09:29.869 --> 09:32.138 But, of course, the state wants to work 09:32.138 --> 09:35.141 with local governments in trying to get the crime rate down. 09:35.141 --> 09:37.811 And we know we have a need there in Memphis. 09:37.811 --> 09:40.313 - One thing there's been a lot of discussion, 09:40.313 --> 09:43.416 in Memphis there was an ordinance 09:43.416 --> 09:46.619 to minimize the fine for small amounts of marijuana. 09:46.619 --> 09:48.154 And there was a lot of fun 09:48.154 --> 09:49.422 and a lot of joking about that, you know, and so on. 09:49.422 --> 09:51.024 But the people who advocated for it, 09:51.024 --> 09:54.060 Berlin Boyd, now the head of the City Council, 09:54.060 --> 09:55.662 for him it was a criminal justice issue. 09:55.662 --> 09:58.264 It wasn't about advocating marijuana usage. 09:58.264 --> 10:00.400 It was, look, let's allow the police 10:00.400 --> 10:02.769 to focus on violent crime, gang crime, 10:02.769 --> 10:04.537 serious level crime, 10:04.537 --> 10:08.274 and not have to play around with smaller ones. 10:08.274 --> 10:09.876 And that, I think for people, 10:09.876 --> 10:11.611 I don't wanna speak for Berlin, 10:11.611 --> 10:13.113 but for people in that camp 10:13.113 --> 10:14.848 that was just the first of things 10:14.848 --> 10:16.249 that they'd like to see fines 10:16.249 --> 10:18.918 and overnight jail terms come down. 10:18.918 --> 10:22.021 Do you see that notion of criminal justice reform, 10:22.021 --> 10:23.990 of look, we're fining people too much, 10:23.990 --> 10:27.760 we're burdening them of fines for minor offenses. 10:27.760 --> 10:28.928 Some of that's state driven. 10:28.928 --> 10:30.163 - Right. 10:30.163 --> 10:31.631 - Is there a need to bring that down, 10:31.631 --> 10:33.600 that those petty crimes, that are still infractions, 10:33.600 --> 10:35.468 but are over penalized. 10:35.468 --> 10:38.538 And set people into a downward spiral 10:38.538 --> 10:40.373 they can't seem to get out of. 10:40.373 --> 10:41.941 - Right, and that is true. 10:41.941 --> 10:45.078 When you set our fines too high for some folks 10:45.078 --> 10:47.113 that just means that you put them into poverty 10:47.113 --> 10:48.648 and it's an endless cycle. 10:48.648 --> 10:50.283 You know, again, there's always two sides to everything, 10:50.283 --> 10:53.786 and there are those who argue that we set the statute. 10:53.786 --> 10:56.489 And when you give too much discretion to the policemen 10:56.489 --> 10:57.824 that can get you in real trouble. 10:57.824 --> 10:59.392 I mean, do you let a kid go 10:59.392 --> 11:01.528 because he has good parents and you know where he lives, 11:01.528 --> 11:02.729 and this other kid gets a higher sentence. 11:02.729 --> 11:04.063 We can't let that, 11:04.063 --> 11:06.399 there needs to be consistency on the penalties. 11:06.399 --> 11:08.635 If I went out to the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation 11:08.635 --> 11:11.437 and they're very concerned with trying 11:11.437 --> 11:14.440 to treat marijuana the way it was back in the 1960s or '70s 11:14.440 --> 11:16.009 when it was really based on weight. 11:16.009 --> 11:17.644 The reality is its potency now 11:17.644 --> 11:19.078 that they're concerned with and wanna look at. 11:19.078 --> 11:20.413 So, they can show me about that much marijuana 11:20.413 --> 11:22.649 and it's more potent than a whole bag of it. 11:22.649 --> 11:25.251 So, it's a major concern, it really is. 11:25.251 --> 11:26.986 But we will look at it this year. 11:26.986 --> 11:29.622 And I'm sure that there'll be legislation, 11:29.622 --> 11:31.891 at least concerning medical use for marijuana. 11:31.891 --> 11:34.727 - There are some, back to prisons, 11:34.727 --> 11:36.162 I think I'm right in this, 11:36.162 --> 11:38.164 there's around 10,000 people in the state prisons 11:38.164 --> 11:39.432 or something like that. 11:39.432 --> 11:41.367 Last year you all passed a law that was targeted 11:41.367 --> 11:44.204 at trying to reduce the recidivism rate. 11:44.204 --> 11:45.471 Because it was something like, 11:45.471 --> 11:46.706 it was a staggering number, 11:46.706 --> 11:49.943 40% plus of the people who go into jail, 11:49.943 --> 11:51.911 it's for relatively minor, I mean, 11:51.911 --> 11:53.613 we're talking about crimes, still. 11:53.613 --> 11:57.183 But relatively minor violations of their probation, 11:57.183 --> 12:00.486 not that they robbed a place or they committed murder, 12:00.486 --> 12:02.221 something that, of course, they should go back to jail. 12:02.221 --> 12:04.357 But they missed an appointment, they didn't do something, 12:04.357 --> 12:06.859 and that is not only, you called it valuable prison bed, 12:06.859 --> 12:08.228 it's very expensive. 12:08.228 --> 12:10.229 - It is very expensive, very expensive. 12:10.229 --> 12:12.999 And, yes, we did go back and say, okay, 12:12.999 --> 12:14.701 it's wrong to miss your parole deadline 12:14.701 --> 12:16.302 but is it worth sending you back in. 12:16.302 --> 12:17.971 And, you know, these are people 12:17.971 --> 12:19.572 that are trying to make a new life for themselves, 12:19.572 --> 12:23.009 and it's hard to live under the parole system. 12:23.009 --> 12:26.045 But, on the other hand, we've gotta assure the citizens 12:26.045 --> 12:28.081 that we're gonna try to keep them publicly safe. 12:28.081 --> 12:29.282 When you let someone out of prison, 12:29.282 --> 12:30.116 you need to follow them. 12:30.116 --> 12:31.250 - Right, right. 12:31.250 --> 12:32.919 I don't mean this cynically, 12:32.919 --> 12:34.387 it's a politician's, it's everyone's nightmare, 12:34.387 --> 12:37.190 but politically you vote to reduce the recidivism 12:37.190 --> 12:38.691 or the return to jail, 12:38.691 --> 12:40.326 and someone does something horrible. 12:40.326 --> 12:42.262 - Right, that's exactly right. 12:42.262 --> 12:44.964 - And you've taken that vote, and that's both, 12:44.964 --> 12:47.900 it's gotta hurt and it's bad politically, right? 12:47.900 --> 12:49.202 - Right, right. 12:49.202 --> 12:50.570 And so, we do have that second check 12:50.570 --> 12:52.605 of the border paroles who reviews 12:52.605 --> 12:54.307 all these individual cases. 12:54.307 --> 12:56.843 And it really should be done on an individual basis 12:56.843 --> 12:59.012 because it's all different. 12:59.012 --> 13:01.080 - How much, I mean, a vote like that, 13:01.080 --> 13:03.182 when you're voting to reduce sentences, 13:03.182 --> 13:06.252 in the reality of electioning, of campaigning, 13:06.252 --> 13:09.188 and reelection, I'll take you out of it for a second, 13:09.188 --> 13:10.790 but just your members. 13:10.790 --> 13:13.126 Do they come to you and say, "Look, I get this, 13:13.126 --> 13:14.127 "I get this, Speaker Harwell, 13:14.127 --> 13:15.495 "but I'll get killed. 13:15.495 --> 13:17.096 "If I do this, my constituents will eat me up 13:17.096 --> 13:19.065 "and I'll get challenged." 13:19.065 --> 13:21.934 You don't have to name names, but does that happen? 13:21.934 --> 13:23.503 - Oh, it does, I mean, I have to tell you 13:23.503 --> 13:25.171 one of the first pieces of legislation 13:25.171 --> 13:27.073 I introduced back when I was a new member 13:27.073 --> 13:30.743 was to increase the jail time for repeat rapists 13:30.743 --> 13:33.079 and lower the time for possession 13:33.079 --> 13:36.449 of small amounts of cocaine; cocaine was the big drug then. 13:36.449 --> 13:38.918 It would allow these people that violate cocaine 13:38.918 --> 13:40.320 to stay in the local jails, 13:40.320 --> 13:42.422 and it would let us keep the hardened rapists 13:42.422 --> 13:44.290 in the main prison for a longer time. 13:44.290 --> 13:45.692 And it was controversial 13:45.692 --> 13:48.327 because, as you know, politics is a tough business. 13:48.327 --> 13:52.165 So, they didn't want the first brochure to go out 13:52.165 --> 13:54.467 and say, well, they lowered cocaine possession. 13:54.467 --> 13:57.070 But, as I said, everything's a give and take, 13:57.070 --> 13:58.504 you gotta balance it. 13:58.504 --> 14:00.640 We can't do anything that's gonna cost the state 14:00.640 --> 14:03.142 to go into not having a balanced budget. 14:03.142 --> 14:05.678 - Well, the same thing with that pressure 14:05.678 --> 14:07.246 on the votes and the challenges, 14:07.246 --> 14:10.550 I mean, is that a fear among your members? 14:10.550 --> 14:12.385 That, look, I get it, 14:12.385 --> 14:15.321 I get why we should vote for this gas tax 14:15.321 --> 14:19.559 but I will have people campaigning to the right of me 14:19.559 --> 14:22.028 that are saying he voted for or she voted for 14:22.028 --> 14:23.763 a gazillion dollar tax increase. 14:23.763 --> 14:25.298 - Yes. 14:25.298 --> 14:27.500 - I mean, that's gotta be the fear, how do you pull it off. 14:27.500 --> 14:28.701 - It is, it is. 14:28.701 --> 14:30.870 But I will say, I'll give my members, 14:30.870 --> 14:32.338 they really care what their constituents think. 14:32.338 --> 14:34.941 And so, I encourage constituents to call their members 14:34.941 --> 14:36.075 And, if in your mind, 14:36.075 --> 14:37.910 you really can't justify a tax increase, 14:37.910 --> 14:40.513 you don't want the additional roads in Memphis, 14:40.513 --> 14:42.448 then you need to let our legislators know that. 14:42.448 --> 14:44.550 But everything's a give and take. 14:44.550 --> 14:47.854 And I commend the governor for presenting a problem, 14:47.854 --> 14:50.623 and one that we should begin to look at and addressing. 14:50.623 --> 14:52.125 - We talked about the federal government before 14:52.125 --> 14:53.926 and the demands that they put on, 14:53.926 --> 14:56.496 obviously, a huge issue over the last eight years, 14:56.496 --> 14:58.197 or six or eight years, was Obamacare. 14:58.197 --> 14:59.599 - Yes. 14:59.599 --> 15:01.167 - We've got a new administration federally, 15:01.167 --> 15:02.802 they're moving towards, you know, 15:02.802 --> 15:04.570 they're calling for a repeal. 15:04.570 --> 15:06.973 It's not clear whether they're gonna replace 15:06.973 --> 15:08.975 Obamacare at the same time. 15:08.975 --> 15:10.476 What's your take on that? 15:10.476 --> 15:12.645 It's a huge amount of money 15:12.645 --> 15:14.847 and I don't know what the number of Tennesseeans, 15:14.847 --> 15:16.349 I should have looked it up, 15:16.349 --> 15:18.918 but it's tens of thousands of Tennesseeans 15:18.918 --> 15:20.486 are in the Obamacare exchanges. 15:20.486 --> 15:22.455 So, however flawed they may be or problematic, 15:22.455 --> 15:24.123 they are all providing insurance to individuals 15:24.123 --> 15:26.359 and families across the state. 15:26.359 --> 15:28.828 What's your concern about how this plays out? 15:28.828 --> 15:30.730 - I think it's an exciting time to be in state government. 15:30.730 --> 15:32.565 I also think it's gonna be a difficult time. 15:32.565 --> 15:35.001 Because I think if President Trump does what 15:35.001 --> 15:36.803 I hope he does do, which is return these domestic issues 15:36.803 --> 15:38.938 back to the state and local governments 15:38.938 --> 15:40.973 where they can efficiently and effectively run. 15:40.973 --> 15:42.475 we're gonna have our work cut out for us. 15:42.475 --> 15:45.044 It's kind of like, be careful what you wish for. 15:45.044 --> 15:46.779 Because if they say we're giving your education dollars 15:46.779 --> 15:48.247 back to you in a block grant, 15:48.247 --> 15:50.049 well, we're gonna be able to do some new things. 15:50.049 --> 15:51.884 If they say we're giving you your federal money 15:51.884 --> 15:53.419 in a block grant on healthcare, 15:53.419 --> 15:55.188 we're gonna have to really put a pencil to the paper 15:55.188 --> 15:57.623 and figure out how it's gonna work for us. 15:57.623 --> 16:00.059 You know I set up a task force to look at, 16:00.059 --> 16:02.328 while we didn't make the vote to expand, 16:02.328 --> 16:03.296 I asked them to-- 16:03.296 --> 16:04.597 - To expand Medicaid. 16:04.597 --> 16:05.998 - Yeah, expand Medicaid. 16:05.998 --> 16:08.100 They've come up, my task force has come up with 16:08.100 --> 16:09.869 I think some really good ideas. 16:09.869 --> 16:11.237 And we may be able to lead the nation 16:11.237 --> 16:13.940 with breaker points to control the costs 16:13.940 --> 16:15.575 and still insure more people. 16:15.575 --> 16:17.043 - Breaker costs, what is that? 16:17.043 --> 16:18.544 - Well, just when you reach a certain point 16:18.544 --> 16:20.079 and it begins to cost the state too much, 16:20.079 --> 16:22.648 you pull back, so, it doesn't get out of control. 16:22.648 --> 16:23.482 - I gotcha. 16:23.482 --> 16:24.717 A block grant, 16:24.717 --> 16:26.853 for people that don't understand what that is, 16:26.853 --> 16:28.087 it gets thrown around, 16:28.087 --> 16:29.488 it's getting throw around a lot now 16:29.488 --> 16:31.524 because the federal government is talking about 16:31.524 --> 16:33.159 shifting a lot of things to block grant. 16:33.159 --> 16:35.494 What is a block grant from your point of view? 16:35.494 --> 16:37.063 - Well, when you're taxed, 16:37.063 --> 16:38.631 whether it be your gas tax or, 16:38.631 --> 16:40.233 a portion of it goes to the federal government, 16:40.233 --> 16:42.668 state government and local government. 16:42.668 --> 16:44.036 And the portion that we send up 16:44.036 --> 16:46.005 for domestic programs at the federal government, 16:46.005 --> 16:48.875 the idea was they'd equalize at the states a little bit more 16:48.875 --> 16:50.243 and give it back down to us. 16:50.243 --> 16:52.011 The reality is I would love to be able to 16:52.011 --> 16:54.513 keep that money that's taxed on Tennesseeans 16:54.513 --> 16:56.182 and keep it here in Tennessee 16:56.182 --> 16:58.384 to better meet the needs of our students 16:58.384 --> 17:00.119 and the consumers here in the state. 17:00.119 --> 17:01.821 - So, the income taxes that are paid to the IRS, 17:01.821 --> 17:03.556 your 1040, 1040 whatever, 17:03.556 --> 17:04.557 that that number would come back. 17:04.557 --> 17:05.758 - Right. 17:05.758 --> 17:07.093 - And that Tennessee would then have 17:07.093 --> 17:08.561 this discretion to spend it, 17:08.561 --> 17:10.396 not be dictated to in the way Obamacare 17:10.396 --> 17:11.697 defined what had to be done basically. 17:11.697 --> 17:12.698 - Right, free us up from a lot of 17:12.698 --> 17:14.533 unfunded federal mandates. 17:14.533 --> 17:17.770 - Governor Haslam very publicly did not support Trump. 17:17.770 --> 17:19.472 What did you do? 17:19.472 --> 17:20.573 - I supported. 17:20.573 --> 17:21.407 - You did? 17:21.407 --> 17:22.642 - Yes. 17:22.642 --> 17:25.945 - Are you cautious, are you wary, I mean, 17:25.945 --> 17:28.848 honestly, what are your feelings? 17:28.848 --> 17:30.416 I mean, there is such a range 17:30.416 --> 17:32.285 it's hard to remember in my lifetime 17:32.285 --> 17:36.289 a president who's come in with such a wide range 17:36.289 --> 17:39.058 of expectations from very, you know, the avid supporters 17:39.058 --> 17:41.227 to the really fearful, and everything in between. 17:41.227 --> 17:42.728 Your take on this. 17:42.728 --> 17:44.363 - Well, you know what it is, 17:44.363 --> 17:45.631 it was a different kind of election, 17:45.631 --> 17:47.066 there's no doubt about that. 17:47.066 --> 17:49.068 There were times when President Trump 17:49.068 --> 17:51.504 made me nervous by some of the things he said. 17:51.504 --> 17:53.539 But, ultimately, I think it was the right choice 17:53.539 --> 17:55.007 for our country. 17:55.007 --> 17:57.043 I think you're gonna see some exciting things happen. 17:57.043 --> 17:58.878 He is beholden to no one, 17:58.878 --> 18:01.914 and not even the Washington establishment. 18:01.914 --> 18:04.283 So, I think that certainly he struck a nerve 18:04.283 --> 18:05.985 with the majority of Tennesseeans 18:05.985 --> 18:07.587 and they're expecting, you know, 18:07.587 --> 18:08.955 they really have no choice. 18:08.955 --> 18:10.356 They have a Republican congress, senate and president, 18:10.356 --> 18:12.959 and we expect them to get things done. 18:12.959 --> 18:15.661 - Back to local issues in Memphis. 18:15.661 --> 18:17.063 And these are statewide things, 18:17.063 --> 18:18.998 but in Memphis the state played a big role 18:18.998 --> 18:21.600 in terms of incentives for St. Jude 18:21.600 --> 18:24.103 and the billion dollar capital investment they're doing 18:24.103 --> 18:26.973 and the $10 billion in just increased spending in Memphis, 18:26.973 --> 18:29.442 which people in Memphis are very excited about. 18:29.442 --> 18:33.446 ServiceMaster which moved corporate headquarters 18:33.446 --> 18:35.181 into downtown, into a vacant building. 18:35.181 --> 18:37.083 Those state incentives, I know they don't go 18:37.083 --> 18:39.885 through a vote through the House. 18:39.885 --> 18:41.120 - Right. 18:41.120 --> 18:44.056 - But you all set up the parameters and so on. 18:44.056 --> 18:45.358 It's a very controversial thing in Memphis. 18:45.358 --> 18:46.292 - It is. 18:46.292 --> 18:47.159 - And maybe elsewhere, too. 18:47.159 --> 18:48.394 - Yes. 18:48.394 --> 18:49.895 - Is there from a state point of view, 18:49.895 --> 18:52.698 appropriate accountability on those incentive dollars? 18:52.698 --> 18:55.067 - I will tell you we didn't use to have it in place. 18:55.067 --> 18:57.203 But now the legislature changed it 18:57.203 --> 18:58.971 and put a clawback provision in. 18:58.971 --> 19:00.673 If they don't produce the number of jobs in our state 19:00.673 --> 19:02.375 they say they would, they lose their tax advantages. 19:02.375 --> 19:03.609 It is a controversy. 19:03.609 --> 19:07.146 Because, you know, we really want to promote, 19:07.146 --> 19:09.181 most jobs are created by small business owners. 19:09.181 --> 19:10.850 We wanna give them the breaks, too, 19:10.850 --> 19:12.351 not just the big companies 19:12.351 --> 19:14.253 that we're trying to recruit into our states. 19:14.253 --> 19:16.255 So, it's hard to have a level playing field. 19:16.255 --> 19:17.456 - Yeah, cause we get that. 19:17.456 --> 19:19.125 People come on the show, and in the paper, 19:19.125 --> 19:20.626 and say, look, I've been here for 20 years, 19:20.626 --> 19:23.929 I've got four plumbing trucks and a little small business. 19:23.929 --> 19:25.531 Where's my incentive? - That's exactly right. 19:25.531 --> 19:27.066 - Where's my break? - That's right, that's right. 19:27.066 --> 19:29.035 - People have talked about whether you're interested 19:29.035 --> 19:30.302 in running for governor. 19:30.302 --> 19:31.971 It seems like everybody is. 19:31.971 --> 19:33.606 But are you thinking about it? 19:33.606 --> 19:35.107 - I'm thinking about it. 19:35.107 --> 19:36.909 I really enjoy state government 19:36.909 --> 19:38.744 and I think this is where you can have the most impact 19:38.744 --> 19:40.680 for good for people's lives, so I will explore the option. 19:40.680 --> 19:43.482 - Thank you, Speaker Harwell, we appreciate it. 19:43.482 --> 19:45.317 - Indeed, my pleasure. 19:48.587 --> 19:50.322 - We're joined now by Bill Dries back in the studio 19:50.322 --> 19:53.259 to talk a little bit more about the legislative session. 19:53.259 --> 19:54.794 Bill, the reaction, obviously, 19:54.794 --> 19:57.396 from other legislators to the proposal for a gas tax, 19:57.396 --> 19:59.498 Beth Harwell talked about it being a heavy lift. 19:59.498 --> 20:00.900 Talk about some of the other reactions 20:00.900 --> 20:02.968 across the state, and especially locally. 20:02.968 --> 20:05.171 - Well, the most universal reaction 20:05.171 --> 20:07.940 that we've had is the realization 20:10.276 --> 20:13.379 that the governor's package on the fuel tax 20:13.379 --> 20:15.548 and the tax rollbacks that accompany it, 20:15.548 --> 20:16.882 will be amended. 20:18.350 --> 20:21.320 Probably in several versions by legislators 20:21.320 --> 20:24.890 because right now it does not have the votes 20:24.890 --> 20:26.225 it needs to pass. 20:26.225 --> 20:29.028 And that's not a slam on the bill, 20:29.028 --> 20:32.631 it's just that this is a very complex package 20:32.631 --> 20:36.001 in which much of the attention is on the fuel tax hikes 20:36.001 --> 20:38.003 that the governor has proposed, 20:38.003 --> 20:42.108 but the tax rollbacks are a very important part of this. 20:42.108 --> 20:44.410 And legislators are gonna have very different ideas 20:44.410 --> 20:46.145 about what should be rolled back 20:46.145 --> 20:48.247 and how much it should be rolled back. 20:48.247 --> 20:50.683 - I wasn't able to get to that with Speaker Harwell. 20:50.683 --> 20:52.618 Some of the rollbacks include what? 20:52.618 --> 20:55.121 - Well, the one that's getting the most attention 20:55.121 --> 20:58.290 is the rollback on the state sales tax on groceries, 20:58.290 --> 21:01.427 on food, in effect, that you buy, 21:01.427 --> 21:03.896 not in a restaurant but in a supermarket. 21:03.896 --> 21:06.732 There's also an acceleration of the rollback 21:06.732 --> 21:08.267 in the Hall income tax, 21:08.267 --> 21:12.538 which is the tax on dividends and investment income 21:12.538 --> 21:15.174 which the state has already said 21:15.174 --> 21:19.078 they will phase out by 2020 or 2022, I believe. 21:20.212 --> 21:22.915 So, you've got a combination of that 21:22.915 --> 21:25.718 that is designed to make this basically a wash. 21:25.718 --> 21:28.053 The tax is increased on fuel 21:29.155 --> 21:31.824 and it creates a certain amount of income. 21:31.824 --> 21:35.794 That amount of income is the total amount of revenue 21:35.794 --> 21:38.097 that you lose with the tax rollbacks. 21:38.097 --> 21:39.565 - But you've got, and I can't remember who it was, 21:39.565 --> 21:41.233 you've got some legislators saying, 21:41.233 --> 21:43.435 look, if we've got a $2 billion surplus, 21:43.435 --> 21:46.372 and only a billion of it is recurring, 21:46.372 --> 21:48.774 that means our taxes are just too high. 21:48.774 --> 21:50.209 We just need to roll back taxes 21:50.209 --> 21:51.877 so that we're revenue neutral. 21:51.877 --> 21:53.179 And then we can talk about a gas tax, 21:53.179 --> 21:54.647 and then we can get about other changes. 21:54.647 --> 21:55.915 But that's the people's money 21:55.915 --> 21:57.550 and it just needs to be given back to them. 21:57.550 --> 22:00.519 We shouldn't be playing games with it, back and forth. 22:00.519 --> 22:02.521 - Right, and the argument on the other side 22:02.521 --> 22:06.759 is going to be that that surplus is one-time money. 22:06.759 --> 22:09.195 These road projects, one single road project 22:09.195 --> 22:13.132 is typically going to be done in several phases 22:14.400 --> 22:16.869 starting with right-of-way acquisition, 22:16.869 --> 22:19.572 moving to architecture and engineering, 22:19.572 --> 22:22.441 or engineering and design on a road project. 22:22.441 --> 22:25.411 And that happens over several years. 22:25.411 --> 22:27.546 So, if you take the surplus money 22:27.546 --> 22:30.115 for one year, you are just, 22:30.115 --> 22:31.917 no pun intended or maybe pun intended, 22:31.917 --> 22:34.687 you're only part way down the road 22:34.687 --> 22:36.522 to finishing that road project. 22:36.522 --> 22:39.158 - Well, and people here, obviously, are familiar 22:39.158 --> 22:40.659 with the I-40, I-240 exchange 22:40.659 --> 22:42.728 from Walnut Grove and Covington Pike 22:42.728 --> 22:44.897 and up into near where the studio is 22:44.897 --> 22:46.732 out towards Cordova. 22:46.732 --> 22:49.635 I mean, it was a long, multi-phase kind of a nightmare 22:49.635 --> 22:52.238 some would say, and that's how things have gone. 22:52.238 --> 22:54.607 Just to localize some of these projects 22:54.607 --> 22:57.209 that are on the back list, you know, Lamar Avenue alone, 22:57.209 --> 23:00.713 which is a huge priority for the business community 23:00.713 --> 23:02.481 because there's so much distribution, 23:02.481 --> 23:03.883 there's just so much activity down there 23:03.883 --> 23:05.818 and the roads are inadequate. 23:05.818 --> 23:07.753 You just have to drive down there at any time of day 23:07.753 --> 23:09.788 and you can tell they're inadequate to the amount 23:09.788 --> 23:10.990 of traffic and shipping that goes on. 23:10.990 --> 23:13.592 That's almost $250 million, give or take, 23:13.592 --> 23:15.160 to widen, to put in overpasses, 23:15.160 --> 23:17.363 to make that a more usable road. 23:17.363 --> 23:18.897 And then there are other ones 23:18.897 --> 23:22.134 from Austin Peay Highway, I-40, to Germantown Road, 23:22.134 --> 23:24.336 to Canada road, there are $47 million proposed there. 23:24.336 --> 23:26.538 Out near Arlington another $40 million. 23:26.538 --> 23:29.642 I-240 from I-55 to I-40 near midtown, another $50 million. 23:29.642 --> 23:32.578 Again, these would be projects over 10 years, 23:32.578 --> 23:34.780 but they've already been approved by TDOT, 23:34.780 --> 23:36.348 they just don't have the money for them. 23:36.348 --> 23:38.217 - Right, and one of the reasons 23:38.217 --> 23:40.819 that they don't have the money for them 23:40.819 --> 23:43.422 is because our cars, our vehicles that we drive 23:43.422 --> 23:45.624 are marked fuel efficient. 23:45.624 --> 23:49.528 So, you don't use as much gas in driving that. 23:49.528 --> 23:51.964 Well, there's a gas tax on each gallon of gas 23:51.964 --> 23:54.833 or on diesel that you use, 23:54.833 --> 23:57.269 and that amount is declining. 23:57.269 --> 23:59.338 - Has there been talk by local legislators, 23:59.338 --> 24:02.041 I mean, certainly advocacy groups and interested citizens 24:02.041 --> 24:05.477 want more bike lanes, they want more mass transit 24:05.477 --> 24:07.446 if there's going to be an opening of money 24:07.446 --> 24:09.214 into places like Memphis, 24:09.214 --> 24:11.617 have you heard from any legislators on that front 24:11.617 --> 24:13.152 in terms of mass transit, and bike lanes, 24:13.152 --> 24:15.054 and some of the alternative options? 24:15.054 --> 24:16.722 - Not a whole lot. 24:16.722 --> 24:18.290 The emphasis here in Memphis 24:18.290 --> 24:22.461 is so completely focused on the state road revenue 24:24.330 --> 24:27.833 for the Lamar Avenue part of this. 24:27.833 --> 24:32.471 Just last year, the state made one application 24:32.471 --> 24:35.207 to the Feds for Fast Track Funding, 24:35.207 --> 24:37.376 that is essentially a large amount of money, 24:37.376 --> 24:39.678 and it was all supposed to go for Lamar. 24:39.678 --> 24:42.414 Now, the state and locally here, 24:42.414 --> 24:44.616 we didn't get the Lamar Avenue grant 24:44.616 --> 24:46.285 that we applied for. 24:46.285 --> 24:49.088 But that is the overwhelming priority 24:49.088 --> 24:51.323 in terms of road projects. 24:51.323 --> 24:52.991 - It was interesting to hear you say 24:52.991 --> 24:54.526 that a little bit, you know, 24:54.526 --> 24:56.628 you've got candidates for, potential candidates, 24:56.628 --> 24:58.197 no one's declared for governor yet. 24:58.197 --> 25:00.099 But people like Beth Harwell talked about it a little bit, 25:00.099 --> 25:02.668 this is a vote that could back to help or hurt her. 25:02.668 --> 25:04.770 Mark Norris, a lot of talk about whether 25:04.770 --> 25:06.038 he'll run for governor. 25:06.038 --> 25:08.207 What has he said about this gas tax proposal? 25:08.207 --> 25:11.343 - Mark Norris in an interviewer with Sam Stockard, 25:11.343 --> 25:13.145 our Nashville correspondent, has said 25:13.145 --> 25:15.714 that he's fine with the rollbacks 25:15.714 --> 25:19.485 but he doesn't know yet about the tax hike part 25:19.485 --> 25:21.487 of the equation on this. 25:22.755 --> 25:25.057 And Mark is running for governor. 25:25.057 --> 25:28.660 He will have a potential rival in the senate 25:28.660 --> 25:30.195 in the way of Mark Green, 25:30.195 --> 25:32.431 who's a state senator from another part of the state. 25:32.431 --> 25:34.666 But the other thing is, 25:34.666 --> 25:37.736 as the majority leader in the senate, 25:37.736 --> 25:41.240 Norris carries the legislation for the administration 25:41.240 --> 25:43.075 in most cases. 25:43.075 --> 25:45.978 So, there is still a lot of amendments to be made on this. 25:45.978 --> 25:47.646 - Yeah, a lot more to come. 25:47.646 --> 25:49.081 It was great to be at the capitol. 25:49.081 --> 25:50.482 Thank you, Bill, for giving us some more insight. 25:50.482 --> 25:52.184 And thank you for joining us. 25:52.184 --> 25:54.186 Join us again next week.