1 00:00:01,668 --> 00:00:03,470 - [Voiceover] Production funding for 2 00:00:03,470 --> 00:00:06,540 Behind the Headlines is made possible in part by 3 00:00:06,540 --> 00:00:10,577 the WKNO Production Fund, the WKNO Endowment Fund, 4 00:00:10,577 --> 00:00:12,179 and by viewers like you. 5 00:00:12,179 --> 00:00:13,714 Thank you. 6 00:00:13,714 --> 00:00:16,550 - Speaker Beth Harwell on the gas tax, the surplus 7 00:00:16,550 --> 00:00:19,953 and more tonight on Behind the Headlines. 8 00:00:21,321 --> 00:00:24,825 (upbeat orchestral music) 9 00:00:38,772 --> 00:00:40,807 I'm Eric Barnes, publisher of The Memphis Daily News. 10 00:00:40,807 --> 00:00:42,342 Thanks for joining us. 11 00:00:42,342 --> 00:00:44,978 I am joined tonight by Beth Harwell, Speaker of the House. 12 00:00:44,978 --> 00:00:45,913 Thank you for being here. 13 00:00:45,913 --> 00:00:47,414 - You bet, I enjoy it. 14 00:00:47,414 --> 00:00:48,382 - And thanks for us letting us use this great space 15 00:00:48,382 --> 00:00:49,583 here at the capitol. 16 00:00:49,583 --> 00:00:51,118 - Absolutely, isn't it beautiful? 17 00:00:51,118 --> 00:00:51,952 We have a beautiful state capitol. 18 00:00:51,952 --> 00:00:52,786 - Yes, it's great. 19 00:00:52,786 --> 00:00:54,321 So, the session started. 20 00:00:54,321 --> 00:00:56,056 It's a quiet week but things really heat up next week. 21 00:00:56,056 --> 00:00:58,558 You've got a $2 billion surplus, a super majority, 22 00:00:58,558 --> 00:01:01,561 federal government is now all Republicans, 23 00:01:01,561 --> 00:01:03,497 so this should be the easiest session of your life, right? 24 00:01:03,497 --> 00:01:04,965 Everyone's gonna be totally in agreement. 25 00:01:04,965 --> 00:01:07,768 - Well, maybe it's be careful what you wish for, 26 00:01:07,768 --> 00:01:08,969 because we do have a lot of work ahead of us. 27 00:01:08,969 --> 00:01:11,071 - Where are those divisions, seriously? 28 00:01:11,071 --> 00:01:12,906 Because you do have that super majority, 29 00:01:12,906 --> 00:01:14,608 and I think people who don't follow the capitol closely 30 00:01:14,608 --> 00:01:17,110 think, well, they'll just be able to do 31 00:01:17,110 --> 00:01:18,912 whatever they want real simply, real quickly. 32 00:01:18,912 --> 00:01:20,480 But there are divisions even among Republicans. 33 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,349 - Sure, especially in a body as large as the House. 34 00:01:22,349 --> 00:01:25,319 When you have 74 Republicans in the body of 99, 35 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,321 there's gonna be differences of opinion. 36 00:01:27,321 --> 00:01:29,423 This is a very beautiful and diverse state, 37 00:01:29,423 --> 00:01:31,458 and my members reflect that. 38 00:01:31,458 --> 00:01:34,027 I mean, when you have a $2 billion surplus, 39 00:01:34,027 --> 00:01:36,596 that's argument number one, how to spend it. 40 00:01:36,596 --> 00:01:38,498 - In those divisions, so in Memphis 41 00:01:38,498 --> 00:01:40,467 people tend to think, "Well, it's really, 42 00:01:40,467 --> 00:01:42,436 "the legislature just cares about the rest of the state." 43 00:01:42,436 --> 00:01:45,172 Now, I imagine everybody in the state thinks that. 44 00:01:45,172 --> 00:01:46,540 You know, the people in the east Tennessee, 45 00:01:46,540 --> 00:01:47,808 the people in the middle Tennessee. 46 00:01:47,808 --> 00:01:49,876 But from your point of view, the divisions, 47 00:01:49,876 --> 00:01:51,411 do they tend to be regional? 48 00:01:51,411 --> 00:01:52,612 Are they city versus rural? 49 00:01:52,612 --> 00:01:54,147 Where are those divisions? 50 00:01:54,147 --> 00:01:56,516 And I don't mean to make too much of them, 51 00:01:56,516 --> 00:01:57,751 but those differences of opinions. 52 00:01:57,751 --> 00:01:59,252 - Well, I'm very proud of my members 53 00:01:59,252 --> 00:02:00,454 because, ultimately at the end of the day, 54 00:02:00,454 --> 00:02:01,855 we put Tennessee first. 55 00:02:01,855 --> 00:02:03,023 But there is division between rural and urban guys, 56 00:02:03,023 --> 00:02:05,492 that's the main division that happens. 57 00:02:05,492 --> 00:02:07,995 You're blessed in Memphis to have a great delegation 58 00:02:07,995 --> 00:02:10,097 representing you in the state house, 59 00:02:10,097 --> 00:02:11,898 and so I look forward to working with them. 60 00:02:11,898 --> 00:02:14,067 - The surplus, which people have talked a lot about, 61 00:02:14,067 --> 00:02:15,502 break down the surplus for me. 62 00:02:15,502 --> 00:02:18,438 I mean, it's not a recurring surplus. 63 00:02:18,438 --> 00:02:19,840 - That's right. 64 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:21,775 - That's part of the caution you have right now, 65 00:02:21,775 --> 00:02:23,977 is you gotta plan for this is not gonna be forever. 66 00:02:23,977 --> 00:02:25,479 - Absolutely. 67 00:02:25,479 --> 00:02:27,414 It's two billion, that's true, but only one of that 68 00:02:27,414 --> 00:02:29,116 is reoccurring money. 69 00:02:29,116 --> 00:02:32,753 And we have been fiscally very well managed in this state 70 00:02:32,753 --> 00:02:35,589 in that we don't spend non-reoccurring money 71 00:02:35,589 --> 00:02:37,090 on reoccurring costs. 72 00:02:37,090 --> 00:02:39,092 So, if you're gonna put it in something 73 00:02:39,092 --> 00:02:40,360 that you know is gonna cost you again next year, 74 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:41,695 that's wrong, you shouldn't do that. 75 00:02:41,695 --> 00:02:43,130 - And some of the biggest news right now 76 00:02:43,130 --> 00:02:45,632 certainly is the proposal that Governor Haslam 77 00:02:45,632 --> 00:02:48,101 has put forward for transportation funding, and a gas tax. 78 00:02:48,101 --> 00:02:49,403 It's been talked about for years. 79 00:02:49,403 --> 00:02:50,937 It goes back to the whole idea 80 00:02:50,937 --> 00:02:52,639 that cars have gotten so much more fuel efficient 81 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,274 and there's been no change in the gas tax, 82 00:02:54,274 --> 00:02:55,409 so it generates a whole lot less money. 83 00:02:55,409 --> 00:02:56,710 - Right. 84 00:02:56,710 --> 00:02:59,046 - Where do you stand on the governor's proposal? 85 00:02:59,046 --> 00:03:00,414 - Well, I'm gonna keep an open mind 86 00:03:00,414 --> 00:03:02,449 as I've encouraged my members to do, as well. 87 00:03:02,449 --> 00:03:03,750 I mean, the Tennessee General Assembly 88 00:03:03,750 --> 00:03:05,352 does not raise taxes lightly. 89 00:03:05,352 --> 00:03:07,254 I mean, this is a heavy lift. 90 00:03:07,254 --> 00:03:08,989 But on the other hand, 91 00:03:08,989 --> 00:03:10,957 we haven't raised the gas tax in 28 years. 92 00:03:10,957 --> 00:03:13,260 And, as you said, cars are more fuel efficient 93 00:03:13,260 --> 00:03:16,496 and we've got a lot more road to maintain. 94 00:03:16,496 --> 00:03:19,733 Part of, I believe in a very limited government, 95 00:03:19,733 --> 00:03:21,568 and we should perform those limited roles well. 96 00:03:21,568 --> 00:03:23,303 And one of those roles is infrastructure. 97 00:03:23,303 --> 00:03:26,373 - How about this whole, again we talked about urban/rural 98 00:03:26,373 --> 00:03:28,575 and again, just thinking of Memphis, 99 00:03:28,575 --> 00:03:30,410 the cities in Tennessee have different needs 100 00:03:30,410 --> 00:03:31,645 than suburban areas 101 00:03:31,645 --> 00:03:33,180 and, certainly, than rural areas. 102 00:03:33,180 --> 00:03:35,782 - Memphis has different needs than Nashville. 103 00:03:35,782 --> 00:03:38,018 Is there a formula that you, a way of doing this 104 00:03:38,018 --> 00:03:39,486 that satisfies that? 105 00:03:39,486 --> 00:03:41,288 That maybe Memphis wants to put money in bike lanes, 106 00:03:41,288 --> 00:03:43,523 and roads, and Lamar Avenue, and all that, 107 00:03:43,523 --> 00:03:45,725 but also bike lanes and mass transit 108 00:03:45,725 --> 00:03:48,261 in a way that other districts, that's just not their issue. 109 00:03:48,261 --> 00:03:49,096 - Well, the Department of Transportation 110 00:03:49,096 --> 00:03:50,964 prioritizes projects. 111 00:03:50,964 --> 00:03:54,167 And it has at least one project in all 95 counties 112 00:03:54,167 --> 00:03:56,236 that they would like to get started. 113 00:03:56,236 --> 00:03:58,271 If we were able to successfully 114 00:03:58,271 --> 00:04:00,173 push this through the legislature, 115 00:04:00,173 --> 00:04:03,844 we would begin all the backlog projects in six years. 116 00:04:03,844 --> 00:04:05,378 And you're right, Memphis is different. 117 00:04:05,378 --> 00:04:07,848 I know Lamar Parkway is a huge deal for you all. 118 00:04:07,848 --> 00:04:11,518 And my rural guys in Nashville, it's a mass transit issue. 119 00:04:11,518 --> 00:04:14,955 So, we give flexibility somewhat to local governments, 120 00:04:14,955 --> 00:04:17,090 but then we have an overall strategy for the state. 121 00:04:17,090 --> 00:04:18,391 - There was some talk early, I mean, 122 00:04:18,391 --> 00:04:19,826 again we're early in the session, 123 00:04:19,826 --> 00:04:22,129 but proposals with, again, with that surplus, 124 00:04:22,129 --> 00:04:23,530 of trying to figure out a way 125 00:04:23,530 --> 00:04:25,966 to shift some of it back locally 126 00:04:25,966 --> 00:04:27,267 and based on population, and contributions, 127 00:04:27,267 --> 00:04:28,568 so on and so forth. 128 00:04:28,568 --> 00:04:29,770 For a place like Memphis, 129 00:04:29,770 --> 00:04:30,770 I think the number one proposal 130 00:04:30,770 --> 00:04:32,005 that I believe Senator Kelsey, 131 00:04:32,005 --> 00:04:33,874 maybe Senator Norris had on the other side, 132 00:04:33,874 --> 00:04:35,809 was a 50 million dollars plus 133 00:04:35,809 --> 00:04:37,744 that would be returned to Memphis. 134 00:04:37,744 --> 00:04:39,646 Other areas it'd be more or less, whatever. 135 00:04:39,646 --> 00:04:40,847 Your thoughts on that kind of thing, 136 00:04:40,847 --> 00:04:42,682 of getting the money back to the local areas. 137 00:04:42,682 --> 00:04:44,518 - Well, we definitely want to, as much as possible, 138 00:04:44,518 --> 00:04:45,886 give it to back to its rightful owner, 139 00:04:45,886 --> 00:04:47,387 which is the taxpayer. 140 00:04:47,387 --> 00:04:50,157 - But to come up with a formula like that, 141 00:04:50,157 --> 00:04:52,993 I think would be very complicated at this point. 142 00:04:52,993 --> 00:04:55,328 And, you know, the state continues to have needs. 143 00:04:55,328 --> 00:04:56,763 - The cities also, in Memphis there's a lot of talk 144 00:04:56,763 --> 00:04:58,698 about the Hall income tax, 145 00:04:58,698 --> 00:05:01,101 which is an income tax not on payroll 146 00:05:01,101 --> 00:05:03,770 but on investments and savings, is being phased out. 147 00:05:03,770 --> 00:05:05,105 I guess that's sort of last year, am I right? 148 00:05:05,105 --> 00:05:06,573 - Right. 149 00:05:06,573 --> 00:05:08,508 - There's a lot of concern among city government 150 00:05:08,508 --> 00:05:09,943 that a lot of that money it's, 151 00:05:09,943 --> 00:05:12,045 I can't remember how many millions of dollars to the city, 152 00:05:12,045 --> 00:05:13,947 where is that gonna come from? 153 00:05:13,947 --> 00:05:15,549 Do you worry in this era of, 154 00:05:15,549 --> 00:05:17,317 I mean, no one likes to pay taxes. 155 00:05:17,317 --> 00:05:19,853 I mean, we all know that, we start with that premise. 156 00:05:19,853 --> 00:05:22,055 But in this era of cutting and reducing taxes, 157 00:05:22,055 --> 00:05:23,957 that you almost go too far 158 00:05:23,957 --> 00:05:26,426 because you deplete the resources 159 00:05:26,426 --> 00:05:28,128 and, as you said, at the end of the day 160 00:05:28,128 --> 00:05:29,596 the state does have needs, it does have spending needs. 161 00:05:29,596 --> 00:05:30,630 - Right, right. 162 00:05:30,630 --> 00:05:32,199 And I would agree to that. 163 00:05:32,199 --> 00:05:33,767 I've cautioned my members, 164 00:05:33,767 --> 00:05:35,368 let's be fiscally responsible about this. 165 00:05:35,368 --> 00:05:37,537 Everyone likes to vote for the projects, 166 00:05:37,537 --> 00:05:39,206 nobody likes to vote for the funding. 167 00:05:39,206 --> 00:05:42,542 And that's lying to people, that's dishonest. 168 00:05:42,542 --> 00:05:45,011 So, I would say with the Hall income tax, 169 00:05:45,011 --> 00:05:47,314 it will be completely phased out by 2022. 170 00:05:47,314 --> 00:05:49,749 We tried to set it up so that it's an incremental, 171 00:05:49,749 --> 00:05:52,252 so it doesn't hit city governments all at once. 172 00:05:52,252 --> 00:05:53,687 But it is a legitimate concern. 173 00:05:53,687 --> 00:05:56,189 It is here in Nashville, as well. 174 00:05:56,189 --> 00:05:58,058 - What's the Rainy Day Fund now? 175 00:05:58,058 --> 00:06:00,760 What's in it and what do you wanna see, 176 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,163 what would your goal be for how much, 177 00:06:03,163 --> 00:06:04,764 what's the appropriate amount to go into the Rainy Day Fund? 178 00:06:04,764 --> 00:06:06,099 - Well, every year since I've been Speaker, 179 00:06:06,099 --> 00:06:07,968 we have added to the Rainy Day Fund. 180 00:06:07,968 --> 00:06:10,570 We had to deplete it during some economic hard times. 181 00:06:10,570 --> 00:06:12,672 But we've got about enough in the Rainy Day Fund 182 00:06:12,672 --> 00:06:15,609 to keep state government going for about 23 days 183 00:06:15,609 --> 00:06:17,143 if everything went south. 184 00:06:17,143 --> 00:06:18,778 So, we are building it back up and that's a good thing. 185 00:06:18,778 --> 00:06:21,314 It allows us to have a Triple-A bond rating. 186 00:06:21,314 --> 00:06:23,083 And when your financial house is in order, 187 00:06:23,083 --> 00:06:25,485 everything else runs much smoother. 188 00:06:25,485 --> 00:06:27,220 - Back to, again, cities and urban, 189 00:06:27,220 --> 00:06:29,422 we were talking about the different needs 190 00:06:29,422 --> 00:06:31,458 that transportation might have, on the transportation front. 191 00:06:31,458 --> 00:06:34,127 But there's, I think it was the governor who said, 192 00:06:34,127 --> 00:06:36,663 and I've paraphrased this before, maybe last year, 193 00:06:36,663 --> 00:06:38,665 that he was worried there was this sort of decidedly 194 00:06:38,665 --> 00:06:41,434 growing anti-city tone in the legislature. 195 00:06:41,434 --> 00:06:44,037 I think he says that as a former mayor, of course, 196 00:06:44,037 --> 00:06:46,473 and someone who's been in Nashville, and so on. 197 00:06:46,473 --> 00:06:47,474 Do you see that? 198 00:06:47,474 --> 00:06:48,708 Do you see an anti-city tone 199 00:06:48,708 --> 00:06:51,378 in some of the things that happened last year? 200 00:06:51,378 --> 00:06:52,779 And do you think that could happen again this year? 201 00:06:52,779 --> 00:06:54,514 - Well, I certainly hope not. 202 00:06:54,514 --> 00:06:56,616 Our cities are where people live. 203 00:06:56,616 --> 00:06:58,818 This is a wonderful state. 204 00:06:58,818 --> 00:07:01,788 But I do think that when the cities go, 205 00:07:01,788 --> 00:07:03,790 begin to encroach on state government, 206 00:07:03,790 --> 00:07:06,192 then you're gonna have to have a little pushback, 207 00:07:06,192 --> 00:07:07,661 just like state government when the Feds, 208 00:07:07,661 --> 00:07:10,030 when we encroach on the Feds, they push back on us. 209 00:07:10,030 --> 00:07:12,132 So, we have three levels of government for a reason. 210 00:07:12,132 --> 00:07:14,000 And each of them serves a very valuable function 211 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,468 in our citizens' lives. 212 00:07:15,468 --> 00:07:17,570 And we wanna keep that distinction clear. 213 00:07:17,570 --> 00:07:19,606 - One of those that, some people, I mean, 214 00:07:19,606 --> 00:07:21,841 de-annexation is a huge issue in Memphis, 215 00:07:21,841 --> 00:07:23,410 and it was a big issue in Chattanooga. 216 00:07:23,410 --> 00:07:25,111 Big issue last year, it went to summer study, 217 00:07:25,111 --> 00:07:27,447 and, you know, the task force in Memphis 218 00:07:27,447 --> 00:07:28,515 is about to make its recommendations. 219 00:07:28,515 --> 00:07:30,383 You guys have convened. 220 00:07:30,383 --> 00:07:32,452 Is that an appropriate place for the state 221 00:07:32,452 --> 00:07:36,089 to get involved with how cities have annexed or de-annexed? 222 00:07:36,089 --> 00:07:37,457 I mean, in Memphis, 223 00:07:37,457 --> 00:07:39,426 there are people who will write me 224 00:07:39,426 --> 00:07:41,461 ugly emails for saying this, 225 00:07:41,461 --> 00:07:43,530 but there's a point of view that de-annexation 226 00:07:43,530 --> 00:07:45,031 may have been unpopular, it may have been. 227 00:07:45,031 --> 00:07:47,534 But it was litigated, it was done according to the law, 228 00:07:47,534 --> 00:07:49,035 and that's what the proponents say. 229 00:07:49,035 --> 00:07:50,937 If there's gonna be some de-annexing, 230 00:07:50,937 --> 00:07:53,907 it can happen through the City Council and locally. 231 00:07:53,907 --> 00:07:57,410 But last year it almost was dictated by the legislature. 232 00:07:57,410 --> 00:07:59,879 Is that an overreach by the legislature? 233 00:07:59,879 --> 00:08:01,748 To tell cities like Chattanooga, 234 00:08:01,748 --> 00:08:03,249 like Memphis, and elsewhere, 235 00:08:03,249 --> 00:08:04,984 how they should make up their boundaries, and so on. 236 00:08:04,984 --> 00:08:06,886 - Of course, you know what, it depends on who you ask. 237 00:08:06,886 --> 00:08:07,721 (both laugh) 238 00:08:07,721 --> 00:08:09,089 - Well, I'm asking you. 239 00:08:09,089 --> 00:08:10,357 - It's like most things. 240 00:08:10,357 --> 00:08:12,258 It's hard for me because I have to admit 241 00:08:12,258 --> 00:08:13,893 I represent the Nashville area, 242 00:08:13,893 --> 00:08:15,995 which is a metropolitan form of government. 243 00:08:15,995 --> 00:08:17,864 So, it's not, it's not real to my world. 244 00:08:17,864 --> 00:08:19,399 I do know that it mattered tremendously 245 00:08:19,399 --> 00:08:21,101 to my Memphis delegation. 246 00:08:21,101 --> 00:08:24,471 And I tried to work with them as best I could. 247 00:08:24,471 --> 00:08:27,674 - Another local issue, and I don't know, it's a local issue 248 00:08:27,674 --> 00:08:30,310 but the state has laws and so on in crime. 249 00:08:30,310 --> 00:08:31,811 And crime, obviously, 250 00:08:31,811 --> 00:08:34,748 nationwide there's been a spike in violent crime. 251 00:08:34,748 --> 00:08:36,483 Memphis had a terrible run-up 252 00:08:36,483 --> 00:08:38,184 in the homicide rate last year. 253 00:08:38,184 --> 00:08:39,886 Other crimes were level or down. 254 00:08:39,886 --> 00:08:41,621 But that murder rates makes, 255 00:08:41,621 --> 00:08:42,756 and I interchange murder and homicide 256 00:08:42,756 --> 00:08:44,057 and people criticize me for that, 257 00:08:44,057 --> 00:08:47,861 but they're horrible either way you count it. 258 00:08:47,861 --> 00:08:51,097 It was up, and what can the state do? 259 00:08:51,097 --> 00:08:53,800 Is that a priority at the state level 260 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,003 to help the localities fight crime? 261 00:08:57,003 --> 00:08:58,905 - Well, we certainly set the statue 262 00:08:58,905 --> 00:09:01,341 as far as how much penalty there is. 263 00:09:01,341 --> 00:09:03,743 I think there's gonna be a push this year 264 00:09:03,743 --> 00:09:06,980 to re-evaluate the laws that on the books. 265 00:09:06,980 --> 00:09:08,815 Again, that's another part of the code 266 00:09:08,815 --> 00:09:10,650 we really haven't updated in about 20 years. 267 00:09:10,650 --> 00:09:12,419 So, there's some inconsistencies there. 268 00:09:12,419 --> 00:09:14,521 We'd like to get our sentencing more consistent 269 00:09:14,521 --> 00:09:16,523 across the board, and be realistic. 270 00:09:16,523 --> 00:09:19,459 Prison beds are a valuable resource, 271 00:09:19,459 --> 00:09:20,894 and there's only so many of them. 272 00:09:20,894 --> 00:09:22,262 And so, who's on our prison bed 273 00:09:22,262 --> 00:09:23,463 should be the most hardened criminals, 274 00:09:23,463 --> 00:09:25,698 not the white collar crime. 275 00:09:27,033 --> 00:09:28,001 So, we need to go back through our books 276 00:09:28,001 --> 00:09:29,869 and make some changes. 277 00:09:29,869 --> 00:09:32,138 But, of course, the state wants to work 278 00:09:32,138 --> 00:09:35,141 with local governments in trying to get the crime rate down. 279 00:09:35,141 --> 00:09:37,811 And we know we have a need there in Memphis. 280 00:09:37,811 --> 00:09:40,313 - One thing there's been a lot of discussion, 281 00:09:40,313 --> 00:09:43,416 in Memphis there was an ordinance 282 00:09:43,416 --> 00:09:46,619 to minimize the fine for small amounts of marijuana. 283 00:09:46,619 --> 00:09:48,154 And there was a lot of fun 284 00:09:48,154 --> 00:09:49,422 and a lot of joking about that, you know, and so on. 285 00:09:49,422 --> 00:09:51,024 But the people who advocated for it, 286 00:09:51,024 --> 00:09:54,060 Berlin Boyd, now the head of the City Council, 287 00:09:54,060 --> 00:09:55,662 for him it was a criminal justice issue. 288 00:09:55,662 --> 00:09:58,264 It wasn't about advocating marijuana usage. 289 00:09:58,264 --> 00:10:00,400 It was, look, let's allow the police 290 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,769 to focus on violent crime, gang crime, 291 00:10:02,769 --> 00:10:04,537 serious level crime, 292 00:10:04,537 --> 00:10:08,274 and not have to play around with smaller ones. 293 00:10:08,274 --> 00:10:09,876 And that, I think for people, 294 00:10:09,876 --> 00:10:11,611 I don't wanna speak for Berlin, 295 00:10:11,611 --> 00:10:13,113 but for people in that camp 296 00:10:13,113 --> 00:10:14,848 that was just the first of things 297 00:10:14,848 --> 00:10:16,249 that they'd like to see fines 298 00:10:16,249 --> 00:10:18,918 and overnight jail terms come down. 299 00:10:18,918 --> 00:10:22,021 Do you see that notion of criminal justice reform, 300 00:10:22,021 --> 00:10:23,990 of look, we're fining people too much, 301 00:10:23,990 --> 00:10:27,760 we're burdening them of fines for minor offenses. 302 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:28,928 Some of that's state driven. 303 00:10:28,928 --> 00:10:30,163 - Right. 304 00:10:30,163 --> 00:10:31,631 - Is there a need to bring that down, 305 00:10:31,631 --> 00:10:33,600 that those petty crimes, that are still infractions, 306 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,468 but are over penalized. 307 00:10:35,468 --> 00:10:38,538 And set people into a downward spiral 308 00:10:38,538 --> 00:10:40,373 they can't seem to get out of. 309 00:10:40,373 --> 00:10:41,941 - Right, and that is true. 310 00:10:41,941 --> 00:10:45,078 When you set our fines too high for some folks 311 00:10:45,078 --> 00:10:47,113 that just means that you put them into poverty 312 00:10:47,113 --> 00:10:48,648 and it's an endless cycle. 313 00:10:48,648 --> 00:10:50,283 You know, again, there's always two sides to everything, 314 00:10:50,283 --> 00:10:53,786 and there are those who argue that we set the statute. 315 00:10:53,786 --> 00:10:56,489 And when you give too much discretion to the policemen 316 00:10:56,489 --> 00:10:57,824 that can get you in real trouble. 317 00:10:57,824 --> 00:10:59,392 I mean, do you let a kid go 318 00:10:59,392 --> 00:11:01,528 because he has good parents and you know where he lives, 319 00:11:01,528 --> 00:11:02,729 and this other kid gets a higher sentence. 320 00:11:02,729 --> 00:11:04,063 We can't let that, 321 00:11:04,063 --> 00:11:06,399 there needs to be consistency on the penalties. 322 00:11:06,399 --> 00:11:08,635 If I went out to the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation 323 00:11:08,635 --> 00:11:11,437 and they're very concerned with trying 324 00:11:11,437 --> 00:11:14,440 to treat marijuana the way it was back in the 1960s or '70s 325 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,009 when it was really based on weight. 326 00:11:16,009 --> 00:11:17,644 The reality is its potency now 327 00:11:17,644 --> 00:11:19,078 that they're concerned with and wanna look at. 328 00:11:19,078 --> 00:11:20,413 So, they can show me about that much marijuana 329 00:11:20,413 --> 00:11:22,649 and it's more potent than a whole bag of it. 330 00:11:22,649 --> 00:11:25,251 So, it's a major concern, it really is. 331 00:11:25,251 --> 00:11:26,986 But we will look at it this year. 332 00:11:26,986 --> 00:11:29,622 And I'm sure that there'll be legislation, 333 00:11:29,622 --> 00:11:31,891 at least concerning medical use for marijuana. 334 00:11:31,891 --> 00:11:34,727 - There are some, back to prisons, 335 00:11:34,727 --> 00:11:36,162 I think I'm right in this, 336 00:11:36,162 --> 00:11:38,164 there's around 10,000 people in the state prisons 337 00:11:38,164 --> 00:11:39,432 or something like that. 338 00:11:39,432 --> 00:11:41,367 Last year you all passed a law that was targeted 339 00:11:41,367 --> 00:11:44,204 at trying to reduce the recidivism rate. 340 00:11:44,204 --> 00:11:45,471 Because it was something like, 341 00:11:45,471 --> 00:11:46,706 it was a staggering number, 342 00:11:46,706 --> 00:11:49,943 40% plus of the people who go into jail, 343 00:11:49,943 --> 00:11:51,911 it's for relatively minor, I mean, 344 00:11:51,911 --> 00:11:53,613 we're talking about crimes, still. 345 00:11:53,613 --> 00:11:57,183 But relatively minor violations of their probation, 346 00:11:57,183 --> 00:12:00,486 not that they robbed a place or they committed murder, 347 00:12:00,486 --> 00:12:02,221 something that, of course, they should go back to jail. 348 00:12:02,221 --> 00:12:04,357 But they missed an appointment, they didn't do something, 349 00:12:04,357 --> 00:12:06,859 and that is not only, you called it valuable prison bed, 350 00:12:06,859 --> 00:12:08,228 it's very expensive. 351 00:12:08,228 --> 00:12:10,229 - It is very expensive, very expensive. 352 00:12:10,229 --> 00:12:12,999 And, yes, we did go back and say, okay, 353 00:12:12,999 --> 00:12:14,701 it's wrong to miss your parole deadline 354 00:12:14,701 --> 00:12:16,302 but is it worth sending you back in. 355 00:12:16,302 --> 00:12:17,971 And, you know, these are people 356 00:12:17,971 --> 00:12:19,572 that are trying to make a new life for themselves, 357 00:12:19,572 --> 00:12:23,009 and it's hard to live under the parole system. 358 00:12:23,009 --> 00:12:26,045 But, on the other hand, we've gotta assure the citizens 359 00:12:26,045 --> 00:12:28,081 that we're gonna try to keep them publicly safe. 360 00:12:28,081 --> 00:12:29,282 When you let someone out of prison, 361 00:12:29,282 --> 00:12:30,116 you need to follow them. 362 00:12:30,116 --> 00:12:31,250 - Right, right. 363 00:12:31,250 --> 00:12:32,919 I don't mean this cynically, 364 00:12:32,919 --> 00:12:34,387 it's a politician's, it's everyone's nightmare, 365 00:12:34,387 --> 00:12:37,190 but politically you vote to reduce the recidivism 366 00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:38,691 or the return to jail, 367 00:12:38,691 --> 00:12:40,326 and someone does something horrible. 368 00:12:40,326 --> 00:12:42,262 - Right, that's exactly right. 369 00:12:42,262 --> 00:12:44,964 - And you've taken that vote, and that's both, 370 00:12:44,964 --> 00:12:47,900 it's gotta hurt and it's bad politically, right? 371 00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:49,202 - Right, right. 372 00:12:49,202 --> 00:12:50,570 And so, we do have that second check 373 00:12:50,570 --> 00:12:52,605 of the border paroles who reviews 374 00:12:52,605 --> 00:12:54,307 all these individual cases. 375 00:12:54,307 --> 00:12:56,843 And it really should be done on an individual basis 376 00:12:56,843 --> 00:12:59,012 because it's all different. 377 00:12:59,012 --> 00:13:01,080 - How much, I mean, a vote like that, 378 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,182 when you're voting to reduce sentences, 379 00:13:03,182 --> 00:13:06,252 in the reality of electioning, of campaigning, 380 00:13:06,252 --> 00:13:09,188 and reelection, I'll take you out of it for a second, 381 00:13:09,188 --> 00:13:10,790 but just your members. 382 00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:13,126 Do they come to you and say, "Look, I get this, 383 00:13:13,126 --> 00:13:14,127 "I get this, Speaker Harwell, 384 00:13:14,127 --> 00:13:15,495 "but I'll get killed. 385 00:13:15,495 --> 00:13:17,096 "If I do this, my constituents will eat me up 386 00:13:17,096 --> 00:13:19,065 "and I'll get challenged." 387 00:13:19,065 --> 00:13:21,934 You don't have to name names, but does that happen? 388 00:13:21,934 --> 00:13:23,503 - Oh, it does, I mean, I have to tell you 389 00:13:23,503 --> 00:13:25,171 one of the first pieces of legislation 390 00:13:25,171 --> 00:13:27,073 I introduced back when I was a new member 391 00:13:27,073 --> 00:13:30,743 was to increase the jail time for repeat rapists 392 00:13:30,743 --> 00:13:33,079 and lower the time for possession 393 00:13:33,079 --> 00:13:36,449 of small amounts of cocaine; cocaine was the big drug then. 394 00:13:36,449 --> 00:13:38,918 It would allow these people that violate cocaine 395 00:13:38,918 --> 00:13:40,320 to stay in the local jails, 396 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,422 and it would let us keep the hardened rapists 397 00:13:42,422 --> 00:13:44,290 in the main prison for a longer time. 398 00:13:44,290 --> 00:13:45,692 And it was controversial 399 00:13:45,692 --> 00:13:48,327 because, as you know, politics is a tough business. 400 00:13:48,327 --> 00:13:52,165 So, they didn't want the first brochure to go out 401 00:13:52,165 --> 00:13:54,467 and say, well, they lowered cocaine possession. 402 00:13:54,467 --> 00:13:57,070 But, as I said, everything's a give and take, 403 00:13:57,070 --> 00:13:58,504 you gotta balance it. 404 00:13:58,504 --> 00:14:00,640 We can't do anything that's gonna cost the state 405 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,142 to go into not having a balanced budget. 406 00:14:03,142 --> 00:14:05,678 - Well, the same thing with that pressure 407 00:14:05,678 --> 00:14:07,246 on the votes and the challenges, 408 00:14:07,246 --> 00:14:10,550 I mean, is that a fear among your members? 409 00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:12,385 That, look, I get it, 410 00:14:12,385 --> 00:14:15,321 I get why we should vote for this gas tax 411 00:14:15,321 --> 00:14:19,559 but I will have people campaigning to the right of me 412 00:14:19,559 --> 00:14:22,028 that are saying he voted for or she voted for 413 00:14:22,028 --> 00:14:23,763 a gazillion dollar tax increase. 414 00:14:23,763 --> 00:14:25,298 - Yes. 415 00:14:25,298 --> 00:14:27,500 - I mean, that's gotta be the fear, how do you pull it off. 416 00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:28,701 - It is, it is. 417 00:14:28,701 --> 00:14:30,870 But I will say, I'll give my members, 418 00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:32,338 they really care what their constituents think. 419 00:14:32,338 --> 00:14:34,941 And so, I encourage constituents to call their members 420 00:14:34,941 --> 00:14:36,075 And, if in your mind, 421 00:14:36,075 --> 00:14:37,910 you really can't justify a tax increase, 422 00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:40,513 you don't want the additional roads in Memphis, 423 00:14:40,513 --> 00:14:42,448 then you need to let our legislators know that. 424 00:14:42,448 --> 00:14:44,550 But everything's a give and take. 425 00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:47,854 And I commend the governor for presenting a problem, 426 00:14:47,854 --> 00:14:50,623 and one that we should begin to look at and addressing. 427 00:14:50,623 --> 00:14:52,125 - We talked about the federal government before 428 00:14:52,125 --> 00:14:53,926 and the demands that they put on, 429 00:14:53,926 --> 00:14:56,496 obviously, a huge issue over the last eight years, 430 00:14:56,496 --> 00:14:58,197 or six or eight years, was Obamacare. 431 00:14:58,197 --> 00:14:59,599 - Yes. 432 00:14:59,599 --> 00:15:01,167 - We've got a new administration federally, 433 00:15:01,167 --> 00:15:02,802 they're moving towards, you know, 434 00:15:02,802 --> 00:15:04,570 they're calling for a repeal. 435 00:15:04,570 --> 00:15:06,973 It's not clear whether they're gonna replace 436 00:15:06,973 --> 00:15:08,975 Obamacare at the same time. 437 00:15:08,975 --> 00:15:10,476 What's your take on that? 438 00:15:10,476 --> 00:15:12,645 It's a huge amount of money 439 00:15:12,645 --> 00:15:14,847 and I don't know what the number of Tennesseeans, 440 00:15:14,847 --> 00:15:16,349 I should have looked it up, 441 00:15:16,349 --> 00:15:18,918 but it's tens of thousands of Tennesseeans 442 00:15:18,918 --> 00:15:20,486 are in the Obamacare exchanges. 443 00:15:20,486 --> 00:15:22,455 So, however flawed they may be or problematic, 444 00:15:22,455 --> 00:15:24,123 they are all providing insurance to individuals 445 00:15:24,123 --> 00:15:26,359 and families across the state. 446 00:15:26,359 --> 00:15:28,828 What's your concern about how this plays out? 447 00:15:28,828 --> 00:15:30,730 - I think it's an exciting time to be in state government. 448 00:15:30,730 --> 00:15:32,565 I also think it's gonna be a difficult time. 449 00:15:32,565 --> 00:15:35,001 Because I think if President Trump does what 450 00:15:35,001 --> 00:15:36,803 I hope he does do, which is return these domestic issues 451 00:15:36,803 --> 00:15:38,938 back to the state and local governments 452 00:15:38,938 --> 00:15:40,973 where they can efficiently and effectively run. 453 00:15:40,973 --> 00:15:42,475 we're gonna have our work cut out for us. 454 00:15:42,475 --> 00:15:45,044 It's kind of like, be careful what you wish for. 455 00:15:45,044 --> 00:15:46,779 Because if they say we're giving your education dollars 456 00:15:46,779 --> 00:15:48,247 back to you in a block grant, 457 00:15:48,247 --> 00:15:50,049 well, we're gonna be able to do some new things. 458 00:15:50,049 --> 00:15:51,884 If they say we're giving you your federal money 459 00:15:51,884 --> 00:15:53,419 in a block grant on healthcare, 460 00:15:53,419 --> 00:15:55,188 we're gonna have to really put a pencil to the paper 461 00:15:55,188 --> 00:15:57,623 and figure out how it's gonna work for us. 462 00:15:57,623 --> 00:16:00,059 You know I set up a task force to look at, 463 00:16:00,059 --> 00:16:02,328 while we didn't make the vote to expand, 464 00:16:02,328 --> 00:16:03,296 I asked them to-- 465 00:16:03,296 --> 00:16:04,597 - To expand Medicaid. 466 00:16:04,597 --> 00:16:05,998 - Yeah, expand Medicaid. 467 00:16:05,998 --> 00:16:08,100 They've come up, my task force has come up with 468 00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:09,869 I think some really good ideas. 469 00:16:09,869 --> 00:16:11,237 And we may be able to lead the nation 470 00:16:11,237 --> 00:16:13,940 with breaker points to control the costs 471 00:16:13,940 --> 00:16:15,575 and still insure more people. 472 00:16:15,575 --> 00:16:17,043 - Breaker costs, what is that? 473 00:16:17,043 --> 00:16:18,544 - Well, just when you reach a certain point 474 00:16:18,544 --> 00:16:20,079 and it begins to cost the state too much, 475 00:16:20,079 --> 00:16:22,648 you pull back, so, it doesn't get out of control. 476 00:16:22,648 --> 00:16:23,482 - I gotcha. 477 00:16:23,482 --> 00:16:24,717 A block grant, 478 00:16:24,717 --> 00:16:26,853 for people that don't understand what that is, 479 00:16:26,853 --> 00:16:28,087 it gets thrown around, 480 00:16:28,087 --> 00:16:29,488 it's getting throw around a lot now 481 00:16:29,488 --> 00:16:31,524 because the federal government is talking about 482 00:16:31,524 --> 00:16:33,159 shifting a lot of things to block grant. 483 00:16:33,159 --> 00:16:35,494 What is a block grant from your point of view? 484 00:16:35,494 --> 00:16:37,063 - Well, when you're taxed, 485 00:16:37,063 --> 00:16:38,631 whether it be your gas tax or, 486 00:16:38,631 --> 00:16:40,233 a portion of it goes to the federal government, 487 00:16:40,233 --> 00:16:42,668 state government and local government. 488 00:16:42,668 --> 00:16:44,036 And the portion that we send up 489 00:16:44,036 --> 00:16:46,005 for domestic programs at the federal government, 490 00:16:46,005 --> 00:16:48,875 the idea was they'd equalize at the states a little bit more 491 00:16:48,875 --> 00:16:50,243 and give it back down to us. 492 00:16:50,243 --> 00:16:52,011 The reality is I would love to be able to 493 00:16:52,011 --> 00:16:54,513 keep that money that's taxed on Tennesseeans 494 00:16:54,513 --> 00:16:56,182 and keep it here in Tennessee 495 00:16:56,182 --> 00:16:58,384 to better meet the needs of our students 496 00:16:58,384 --> 00:17:00,119 and the consumers here in the state. 497 00:17:00,119 --> 00:17:01,821 - So, the income taxes that are paid to the IRS, 498 00:17:01,821 --> 00:17:03,556 your 1040, 1040 whatever, 499 00:17:03,556 --> 00:17:04,557 that that number would come back. 500 00:17:04,557 --> 00:17:05,758 - Right. 501 00:17:05,758 --> 00:17:07,093 - And that Tennessee would then have 502 00:17:07,093 --> 00:17:08,561 this discretion to spend it, 503 00:17:08,561 --> 00:17:10,396 not be dictated to in the way Obamacare 504 00:17:10,396 --> 00:17:11,697 defined what had to be done basically. 505 00:17:11,697 --> 00:17:12,698 - Right, free us up from a lot of 506 00:17:12,698 --> 00:17:14,533 unfunded federal mandates. 507 00:17:14,533 --> 00:17:17,770 - Governor Haslam very publicly did not support Trump. 508 00:17:17,770 --> 00:17:19,472 What did you do? 509 00:17:19,472 --> 00:17:20,573 - I supported. 510 00:17:20,573 --> 00:17:21,407 - You did? 511 00:17:21,407 --> 00:17:22,642 - Yes. 512 00:17:22,642 --> 00:17:25,945 - Are you cautious, are you wary, I mean, 513 00:17:25,945 --> 00:17:28,848 honestly, what are your feelings? 514 00:17:28,848 --> 00:17:30,416 I mean, there is such a range 515 00:17:30,416 --> 00:17:32,285 it's hard to remember in my lifetime 516 00:17:32,285 --> 00:17:36,289 a president who's come in with such a wide range 517 00:17:36,289 --> 00:17:39,058 of expectations from very, you know, the avid supporters 518 00:17:39,058 --> 00:17:41,227 to the really fearful, and everything in between. 519 00:17:41,227 --> 00:17:42,728 Your take on this. 520 00:17:42,728 --> 00:17:44,363 - Well, you know what it is, 521 00:17:44,363 --> 00:17:45,631 it was a different kind of election, 522 00:17:45,631 --> 00:17:47,066 there's no doubt about that. 523 00:17:47,066 --> 00:17:49,068 There were times when President Trump 524 00:17:49,068 --> 00:17:51,504 made me nervous by some of the things he said. 525 00:17:51,504 --> 00:17:53,539 But, ultimately, I think it was the right choice 526 00:17:53,539 --> 00:17:55,007 for our country. 527 00:17:55,007 --> 00:17:57,043 I think you're gonna see some exciting things happen. 528 00:17:57,043 --> 00:17:58,878 He is beholden to no one, 529 00:17:58,878 --> 00:18:01,914 and not even the Washington establishment. 530 00:18:01,914 --> 00:18:04,283 So, I think that certainly he struck a nerve 531 00:18:04,283 --> 00:18:05,985 with the majority of Tennesseeans 532 00:18:05,985 --> 00:18:07,587 and they're expecting, you know, 533 00:18:07,587 --> 00:18:08,955 they really have no choice. 534 00:18:08,955 --> 00:18:10,356 They have a Republican congress, senate and president, 535 00:18:10,356 --> 00:18:12,959 and we expect them to get things done. 536 00:18:12,959 --> 00:18:15,661 - Back to local issues in Memphis. 537 00:18:15,661 --> 00:18:17,063 And these are statewide things, 538 00:18:17,063 --> 00:18:18,998 but in Memphis the state played a big role 539 00:18:18,998 --> 00:18:21,600 in terms of incentives for St. Jude 540 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,103 and the billion dollar capital investment they're doing 541 00:18:24,103 --> 00:18:26,973 and the $10 billion in just increased spending in Memphis, 542 00:18:26,973 --> 00:18:29,442 which people in Memphis are very excited about. 543 00:18:29,442 --> 00:18:33,446 ServiceMaster which moved corporate headquarters 544 00:18:33,446 --> 00:18:35,181 into downtown, into a vacant building. 545 00:18:35,181 --> 00:18:37,083 Those state incentives, I know they don't go 546 00:18:37,083 --> 00:18:39,885 through a vote through the House. 547 00:18:39,885 --> 00:18:41,120 - Right. 548 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:44,056 - But you all set up the parameters and so on. 549 00:18:44,056 --> 00:18:45,358 It's a very controversial thing in Memphis. 550 00:18:45,358 --> 00:18:46,292 - It is. 551 00:18:46,292 --> 00:18:47,159 - And maybe elsewhere, too. 552 00:18:47,159 --> 00:18:48,394 - Yes. 553 00:18:48,394 --> 00:18:49,895 - Is there from a state point of view, 554 00:18:49,895 --> 00:18:52,698 appropriate accountability on those incentive dollars? 555 00:18:52,698 --> 00:18:55,067 - I will tell you we didn't use to have it in place. 556 00:18:55,067 --> 00:18:57,203 But now the legislature changed it 557 00:18:57,203 --> 00:18:58,971 and put a clawback provision in. 558 00:18:58,971 --> 00:19:00,673 If they don't produce the number of jobs in our state 559 00:19:00,673 --> 00:19:02,375 they say they would, they lose their tax advantages. 560 00:19:02,375 --> 00:19:03,609 It is a controversy. 561 00:19:03,609 --> 00:19:07,146 Because, you know, we really want to promote, 562 00:19:07,146 --> 00:19:09,181 most jobs are created by small business owners. 563 00:19:09,181 --> 00:19:10,850 We wanna give them the breaks, too, 564 00:19:10,850 --> 00:19:12,351 not just the big companies 565 00:19:12,351 --> 00:19:14,253 that we're trying to recruit into our states. 566 00:19:14,253 --> 00:19:16,255 So, it's hard to have a level playing field. 567 00:19:16,255 --> 00:19:17,456 - Yeah, cause we get that. 568 00:19:17,456 --> 00:19:19,125 People come on the show, and in the paper, 569 00:19:19,125 --> 00:19:20,626 and say, look, I've been here for 20 years, 570 00:19:20,626 --> 00:19:23,929 I've got four plumbing trucks and a little small business. 571 00:19:23,929 --> 00:19:25,531 Where's my incentive? - That's exactly right. 572 00:19:25,531 --> 00:19:27,066 - Where's my break? - That's right, that's right. 573 00:19:27,066 --> 00:19:29,035 - People have talked about whether you're interested 574 00:19:29,035 --> 00:19:30,302 in running for governor. 575 00:19:30,302 --> 00:19:31,971 It seems like everybody is. 576 00:19:31,971 --> 00:19:33,606 But are you thinking about it? 577 00:19:33,606 --> 00:19:35,107 - I'm thinking about it. 578 00:19:35,107 --> 00:19:36,909 I really enjoy state government 579 00:19:36,909 --> 00:19:38,744 and I think this is where you can have the most impact 580 00:19:38,744 --> 00:19:40,680 for good for people's lives, so I will explore the option. 581 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,482 - Thank you, Speaker Harwell, we appreciate it. 582 00:19:43,482 --> 00:19:45,317 - Indeed, my pleasure. 583 00:19:48,587 --> 00:19:50,322 - We're joined now by Bill Dries back in the studio 584 00:19:50,322 --> 00:19:53,259 to talk a little bit more about the legislative session. 585 00:19:53,259 --> 00:19:54,794 Bill, the reaction, obviously, 586 00:19:54,794 --> 00:19:57,396 from other legislators to the proposal for a gas tax, 587 00:19:57,396 --> 00:19:59,498 Beth Harwell talked about it being a heavy lift. 588 00:19:59,498 --> 00:20:00,900 Talk about some of the other reactions 589 00:20:00,900 --> 00:20:02,968 across the state, and especially locally. 590 00:20:02,968 --> 00:20:05,171 - Well, the most universal reaction 591 00:20:05,171 --> 00:20:07,940 that we've had is the realization 592 00:20:10,276 --> 00:20:13,379 that the governor's package on the fuel tax 593 00:20:13,379 --> 00:20:15,548 and the tax rollbacks that accompany it, 594 00:20:15,548 --> 00:20:16,882 will be amended. 595 00:20:18,350 --> 00:20:21,320 Probably in several versions by legislators 596 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,890 because right now it does not have the votes 597 00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:26,225 it needs to pass. 598 00:20:26,225 --> 00:20:29,028 And that's not a slam on the bill, 599 00:20:29,028 --> 00:20:32,631 it's just that this is a very complex package 600 00:20:32,631 --> 00:20:36,001 in which much of the attention is on the fuel tax hikes 601 00:20:36,001 --> 00:20:38,003 that the governor has proposed, 602 00:20:38,003 --> 00:20:42,108 but the tax rollbacks are a very important part of this. 603 00:20:42,108 --> 00:20:44,410 And legislators are gonna have very different ideas 604 00:20:44,410 --> 00:20:46,145 about what should be rolled back 605 00:20:46,145 --> 00:20:48,247 and how much it should be rolled back. 606 00:20:48,247 --> 00:20:50,683 - I wasn't able to get to that with Speaker Harwell. 607 00:20:50,683 --> 00:20:52,618 Some of the rollbacks include what? 608 00:20:52,618 --> 00:20:55,121 - Well, the one that's getting the most attention 609 00:20:55,121 --> 00:20:58,290 is the rollback on the state sales tax on groceries, 610 00:20:58,290 --> 00:21:01,427 on food, in effect, that you buy, 611 00:21:01,427 --> 00:21:03,896 not in a restaurant but in a supermarket. 612 00:21:03,896 --> 00:21:06,732 There's also an acceleration of the rollback 613 00:21:06,732 --> 00:21:08,267 in the Hall income tax, 614 00:21:08,267 --> 00:21:12,538 which is the tax on dividends and investment income 615 00:21:12,538 --> 00:21:15,174 which the state has already said 616 00:21:15,174 --> 00:21:19,078 they will phase out by 2020 or 2022, I believe. 617 00:21:20,212 --> 00:21:22,915 So, you've got a combination of that 618 00:21:22,915 --> 00:21:25,718 that is designed to make this basically a wash. 619 00:21:25,718 --> 00:21:28,053 The tax is increased on fuel 620 00:21:29,155 --> 00:21:31,824 and it creates a certain amount of income. 621 00:21:31,824 --> 00:21:35,794 That amount of income is the total amount of revenue 622 00:21:35,794 --> 00:21:38,097 that you lose with the tax rollbacks. 623 00:21:38,097 --> 00:21:39,565 - But you've got, and I can't remember who it was, 624 00:21:39,565 --> 00:21:41,233 you've got some legislators saying, 625 00:21:41,233 --> 00:21:43,435 look, if we've got a $2 billion surplus, 626 00:21:43,435 --> 00:21:46,372 and only a billion of it is recurring, 627 00:21:46,372 --> 00:21:48,774 that means our taxes are just too high. 628 00:21:48,774 --> 00:21:50,209 We just need to roll back taxes 629 00:21:50,209 --> 00:21:51,877 so that we're revenue neutral. 630 00:21:51,877 --> 00:21:53,179 And then we can talk about a gas tax, 631 00:21:53,179 --> 00:21:54,647 and then we can get about other changes. 632 00:21:54,647 --> 00:21:55,915 But that's the people's money 633 00:21:55,915 --> 00:21:57,550 and it just needs to be given back to them. 634 00:21:57,550 --> 00:22:00,519 We shouldn't be playing games with it, back and forth. 635 00:22:00,519 --> 00:22:02,521 - Right, and the argument on the other side 636 00:22:02,521 --> 00:22:06,759 is going to be that that surplus is one-time money. 637 00:22:06,759 --> 00:22:09,195 These road projects, one single road project 638 00:22:09,195 --> 00:22:13,132 is typically going to be done in several phases 639 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,869 starting with right-of-way acquisition, 640 00:22:16,869 --> 00:22:19,572 moving to architecture and engineering, 641 00:22:19,572 --> 00:22:22,441 or engineering and design on a road project. 642 00:22:22,441 --> 00:22:25,411 And that happens over several years. 643 00:22:25,411 --> 00:22:27,546 So, if you take the surplus money 644 00:22:27,546 --> 00:22:30,115 for one year, you are just, 645 00:22:30,115 --> 00:22:31,917 no pun intended or maybe pun intended, 646 00:22:31,917 --> 00:22:34,687 you're only part way down the road 647 00:22:34,687 --> 00:22:36,522 to finishing that road project. 648 00:22:36,522 --> 00:22:39,158 - Well, and people here, obviously, are familiar 649 00:22:39,158 --> 00:22:40,659 with the I-40, I-240 exchange 650 00:22:40,659 --> 00:22:42,728 from Walnut Grove and Covington Pike 651 00:22:42,728 --> 00:22:44,897 and up into near where the studio is 652 00:22:44,897 --> 00:22:46,732 out towards Cordova. 653 00:22:46,732 --> 00:22:49,635 I mean, it was a long, multi-phase kind of a nightmare 654 00:22:49,635 --> 00:22:52,238 some would say, and that's how things have gone. 655 00:22:52,238 --> 00:22:54,607 Just to localize some of these projects 656 00:22:54,607 --> 00:22:57,209 that are on the back list, you know, Lamar Avenue alone, 657 00:22:57,209 --> 00:23:00,713 which is a huge priority for the business community 658 00:23:00,713 --> 00:23:02,481 because there's so much distribution, 659 00:23:02,481 --> 00:23:03,883 there's just so much activity down there 660 00:23:03,883 --> 00:23:05,818 and the roads are inadequate. 661 00:23:05,818 --> 00:23:07,753 You just have to drive down there at any time of day 662 00:23:07,753 --> 00:23:09,788 and you can tell they're inadequate to the amount 663 00:23:09,788 --> 00:23:10,990 of traffic and shipping that goes on. 664 00:23:10,990 --> 00:23:13,592 That's almost $250 million, give or take, 665 00:23:13,592 --> 00:23:15,160 to widen, to put in overpasses, 666 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,363 to make that a more usable road. 667 00:23:17,363 --> 00:23:18,897 And then there are other ones 668 00:23:18,897 --> 00:23:22,134 from Austin Peay Highway, I-40, to Germantown Road, 669 00:23:22,134 --> 00:23:24,336 to Canada road, there are $47 million proposed there. 670 00:23:24,336 --> 00:23:26,538 Out near Arlington another $40 million. 671 00:23:26,538 --> 00:23:29,642 I-240 from I-55 to I-40 near midtown, another $50 million. 672 00:23:29,642 --> 00:23:32,578 Again, these would be projects over 10 years, 673 00:23:32,578 --> 00:23:34,780 but they've already been approved by TDOT, 674 00:23:34,780 --> 00:23:36,348 they just don't have the money for them. 675 00:23:36,348 --> 00:23:38,217 - Right, and one of the reasons 676 00:23:38,217 --> 00:23:40,819 that they don't have the money for them 677 00:23:40,819 --> 00:23:43,422 is because our cars, our vehicles that we drive 678 00:23:43,422 --> 00:23:45,624 are marked fuel efficient. 679 00:23:45,624 --> 00:23:49,528 So, you don't use as much gas in driving that. 680 00:23:49,528 --> 00:23:51,964 Well, there's a gas tax on each gallon of gas 681 00:23:51,964 --> 00:23:54,833 or on diesel that you use, 682 00:23:54,833 --> 00:23:57,269 and that amount is declining. 683 00:23:57,269 --> 00:23:59,338 - Has there been talk by local legislators, 684 00:23:59,338 --> 00:24:02,041 I mean, certainly advocacy groups and interested citizens 685 00:24:02,041 --> 00:24:05,477 want more bike lanes, they want more mass transit 686 00:24:05,477 --> 00:24:07,446 if there's going to be an opening of money 687 00:24:07,446 --> 00:24:09,214 into places like Memphis, 688 00:24:09,214 --> 00:24:11,617 have you heard from any legislators on that front 689 00:24:11,617 --> 00:24:13,152 in terms of mass transit, and bike lanes, 690 00:24:13,152 --> 00:24:15,054 and some of the alternative options? 691 00:24:15,054 --> 00:24:16,722 - Not a whole lot. 692 00:24:16,722 --> 00:24:18,290 The emphasis here in Memphis 693 00:24:18,290 --> 00:24:22,461 is so completely focused on the state road revenue 694 00:24:24,330 --> 00:24:27,833 for the Lamar Avenue part of this. 695 00:24:27,833 --> 00:24:32,471 Just last year, the state made one application 696 00:24:32,471 --> 00:24:35,207 to the Feds for Fast Track Funding, 697 00:24:35,207 --> 00:24:37,376 that is essentially a large amount of money, 698 00:24:37,376 --> 00:24:39,678 and it was all supposed to go for Lamar. 699 00:24:39,678 --> 00:24:42,414 Now, the state and locally here, 700 00:24:42,414 --> 00:24:44,616 we didn't get the Lamar Avenue grant 701 00:24:44,616 --> 00:24:46,285 that we applied for. 702 00:24:46,285 --> 00:24:49,088 But that is the overwhelming priority 703 00:24:49,088 --> 00:24:51,323 in terms of road projects. 704 00:24:51,323 --> 00:24:52,991 - It was interesting to hear you say 705 00:24:52,991 --> 00:24:54,526 that a little bit, you know, 706 00:24:54,526 --> 00:24:56,628 you've got candidates for, potential candidates, 707 00:24:56,628 --> 00:24:58,197 no one's declared for governor yet. 708 00:24:58,197 --> 00:25:00,099 But people like Beth Harwell talked about it a little bit, 709 00:25:00,099 --> 00:25:02,668 this is a vote that could back to help or hurt her. 710 00:25:02,668 --> 00:25:04,770 Mark Norris, a lot of talk about whether 711 00:25:04,770 --> 00:25:06,038 he'll run for governor. 712 00:25:06,038 --> 00:25:08,207 What has he said about this gas tax proposal? 713 00:25:08,207 --> 00:25:11,343 - Mark Norris in an interviewer with Sam Stockard, 714 00:25:11,343 --> 00:25:13,145 our Nashville correspondent, has said 715 00:25:13,145 --> 00:25:15,714 that he's fine with the rollbacks 716 00:25:15,714 --> 00:25:19,485 but he doesn't know yet about the tax hike part 717 00:25:19,485 --> 00:25:21,487 of the equation on this. 718 00:25:22,755 --> 00:25:25,057 And Mark is running for governor. 719 00:25:25,057 --> 00:25:28,660 He will have a potential rival in the senate 720 00:25:28,660 --> 00:25:30,195 in the way of Mark Green, 721 00:25:30,195 --> 00:25:32,431 who's a state senator from another part of the state. 722 00:25:32,431 --> 00:25:34,666 But the other thing is, 723 00:25:34,666 --> 00:25:37,736 as the majority leader in the senate, 724 00:25:37,736 --> 00:25:41,240 Norris carries the legislation for the administration 725 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,075 in most cases. 726 00:25:43,075 --> 00:25:45,978 So, there is still a lot of amendments to be made on this. 727 00:25:45,978 --> 00:25:47,646 - Yeah, a lot more to come. 728 00:25:47,646 --> 00:25:49,081 It was great to be at the capitol. 729 00:25:49,081 --> 00:25:50,482 Thank you, Bill, for giving us some more insight. 730 00:25:50,482 --> 00:25:52,184 And thank you for joining us. 731 00:25:52,184 --> 00:25:54,186 Join us again next week.