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Three Shelby County School board
members talk about attendence

zones, the demerger
and the budget tonight on

"Behind the Headlines."

[theme music]
♪♪♪

Welcome!

I'm Bill Dries, senior reporter
for the Memphis Daily News in

for Eric Barnes,
who is on assignment.

Joining me are Shelby County
Schools Board Chairman Kevin

Woods.

School Board
Commissioner Teresa Jones.

Hi.

And School Board
Commissioner David Reaves.

Welcome.

We have a lot to talk
about this evening.

There's a lot going on
with Shelby County Schools.

And let's start with what the
school board and the school

system are
holding hearings about,

and that is the attendance zones
for the school year that begins

in August.

Let's give people an idea right
off the top of just one of the

scaenrios.

There are about 24 zone changes
by my count that affect 7,000

children, many of them but
not all of them who live in

unincorporated areas of Shelby
county that are not within the

boundaries of any of the
seven cities or towns within the

county.

Let's take a look at
one of the scenarios.

Because of the
suburban school districts,

some students not living in the
suburban towns and cities or the

city of Memphis will be
assigned to new schools.

Some will travel a long distance
to their new school assignments.

Take Bartlett Elementary School.

Next school year
starting in August,

the school and all of it's
students who live in Bartlett

will be part of the
Bartlett School District.

But students now at Bartlett
Elementary School who don't live

in Bartlett will go
to different schools.

168 would travel to
Lucy Elementary School,

a short distance
away in Millington.

395 will zoned to
Dexter Elementary School,

passing three other
elementary schools on the way.

And 162 will be zoned to
Barret's Chapel Elementary

School near Arlington.

So that's a look at one of
the more involved scenarios.

Kevin Woods, as chairman of
the Shelby County Schools Board,

first of all, let's lay out.

Are these arrangements written
in stone at this point and when

does the school board get
to voting on these plans and

possibly making
changes, if there are any?

Well one of the first things we
wanted to do was make sure we

went out to the community and
heard from the community as far

as how they felt about the
impact of the rezoning plan.

One of the first things we
did as a board is we asked our

planning office to create the
least amount of disruption for

families as possible.

You mentioned in one of your
scenarios where families were

actually going to pass possibly
three schools to get to another

school.

What you simply have in those
cases were capacity issues.

So what the planning office
had to do was look at capacity.

They looked at
academic performance.

And they looked at distance of
transportation to get to those

facilities.

So all that went in to play
as far as making a decision.

I think we'll continue.

We've had all our
committee meetings.

The board will then continue
to probably deliberate on the

possibilities.

Possibly some
additional tweaks maybe made.

But no final.

Nothing is set in stone
until the board votes on it.

David Reaves, this is
your district I believe.

What are you
hearing from people,

especially the parents of those
students who would go to Dexter

Elementary School?

Well obviously many of these
people bought homes in this area

particularly with the
understanding that they were

going to go to school
at Bartlett Elementary,

Shadowlawn and many
times, Bartlett High School.

And what I'm hearing from them
is that they want to continue to

go to those schools.

But as a Shelby County School
Board member in the Shelby

County School system, we have
to make sure that we plan for

capacity for those students in
our existing system because we

can not commit them
to another system.

And so that's the reason why we
came up with the Dexter solution

is because it was the closest
to their home and provided a

solution to the capacity.

But by and far, most of
these kids can walk to Bartlett

Elementary and I think they're
going to continue to want to do

that.

And I believe that most of them
will apply for open enrollment

within the Bartlett system.

Teresa Jones, you have been at
all of the hearings that I've

attended and more beyond that.

Do you think that citizens are
as familiar as they should be

with just how this
demerger is going to work?

No, I don't think they are.

I think they're mainly focused
on their child and the school

that they thought
their child would attend.

And they don't really.

They didn't have a vote in many
of the issues that created this

situation.

And they just feel as if they
have now been basically thrown a

punch, that they're not able to
go to the schools as Mr. Reaves

indicated that they
thought they were.

And they don't really..

They understand
there was a merger.

They understand
there was a de-merger.

They understand the concept
of new municipal districts.

But they still
either don't understand.

They really can't accept the
fact that they're not going to

be able to attend those
schools or possibly not.

There are decisions to be
made to determine that yet.

Well and also, you were
at the Cordova hearing.

And this was a different
scenario because the new

municipal schools boundaries
did come in to play but not

directly.

You were dealing with changes
because half of Cordova has been

in the city of Memphis and half
of it has been in unincorporated

Shelby county.

Talk a little bit about
the transition there.

Well of course many of those
students would prefer to go to

Germantown.

But again, we have
capacity issues.

The audience at Cordova, they
pretty much a lot of them want

to stay there.

So it's all about how far
my child has to travel.

They understand that the
re-zoning has to take place.

But it's all about how
far the chid has to travel,

the safety issues.

And of course for us, it's
capacity and providing those and

trying to address
those safety issues.

So that's primarily
what the concerns were.

There were a few situations I
guess that didn't fall within

those categories.

I'm trying to think of one now.

But, um..

Let me get a quick read if I can
from each of you going because

the board has not voted on these
attendence zones at this point.

Do you think there will
be some tinkering wtih it?

Can there be some tinkering?

Of course there can be.

Until there's a vote,
there always can be.

I know in the last meeting there
was a parent who expressed,

and I think I asked her
specifically what would your

suggestion or your desire
be in terms of the zoning.

And she gave a scenario and we
did acutally have to look at

that to see if that was possibly
something we consider -- we

could consider.

And I think they will.

So at the end of the day, no
decision has been made and there

can be changes.

I don't expect major changes but
if an adjustment makes sense and

we can make it work and
it's better for the chidren,

then I expect we'll do that.

David, what about this?

Are changes possible?

Well I mean if we're
gonna make changes,

I expect them
really in two areas.

One is in the Cordova
area, particularly as we split

Ridgeway and Cordova.

There was..

At the meeting the other night,
there were parents who would

rather go to Cordova than
send their child to Ridgeway

particularly
because of the distance.

The other one is northwest
Shelby county as it pertains to

Shelby Forest area, Northaven.

the original maps
that I'm going to,

Craigmont and Raleigh-Egypt.

But I think a new map
potentially might have them

going to Bolton.

But we're still trying to
work out potentially converting

Woodstock to a high
school this year.

So there's still a little bt
that needs to be done in those

particular areas.

And I expect that
it will probably.

There might be some changes.

Kevin, are you
expecting amendments?

Are you expecting Superintendent
Hopson to possibly come back

with some alterations on this?

Well again, the board members
I'm sitting here with now,

they've attended
most of the meetings.

I've attended hearings, as well.

And for the most part, I
think families are grasping the

reality of what has happened
with the formation of the

municipal districts.

And so we're
listening to those concerns.

I think as board
member Jones indicated,

there maybe some small tweaks,
listening to the areas Mr.

Reaves indicated.

As Superintendent Hopson as
indicated on many occasions,

the reason for a public hearing
is not just a process that we go

through with our
minds already made up.

You'll see tweaks based on input
from those families and from

those communities.

And so yeah, I think
there should be some changes.

But as board
member Jones indicated,

overall I think the zoning team
did a fairly good job based on

what we had to work with.

At the end of the day, we had
to find a solution for those

families to attend a school
within the confines of Shelby

County School system.

And at the end of the day, the
municipalities have formed the

school system that
is of their city.

And as you mentioned
about Bartlett Elementary,

it is in the city of Bartlett.

So families who live in
unincorporated Shelby attending

Bartlett Elementary before, our
goal was to make sure that there

is a viable option for those
families in the unlikely event

that Bartlett says we
don't have capacity for you.

We had to make sure that we had
solutions for those families.

Mhm.

You think it's unlikely that
Bartlett will say we don't have

room?

They'll probably have room?

You know as I've indicated at
the hearings that we've gone to,

in addition to creating a plan
for families and making sure

we're attracting families in
unincorporated areas to make

sure we have good
school options for them,

we've also been talking to the
municipality and municipal board

members and making sure that
they understood the impact on

the families that have gone to
these schools for years not only

in Bartlett but
Germantown and Collierville.

Many of the municipal leaders
have come out publically and

said hey, listen.

We want to have an open
enrollment policy to make sure

that we have the families that
have been going there for many

years can continue to
still get an education here.

Publically, we understand that
they have to say their number

one priority are the
families that live within those

municipalities.

But at the end of the day, I
think they'll do right by those

families and make sure that if
they have space to continue to

try and attract those
families to their schools.

And what you'll see from our
system is to make sure that we

can continue to attract
those families as well.

Our responsibility is to Shelby
County School system and we

should be making sure that
we're creating a quality school

system, You look at what's going
on with the Bolton and Bartlett

High School issue.

It's pretty
interesting watching,

you know, principals' leadership
within those schools and say we

want your kids.

We don't care if
you live in Bartlett.

We want you
coming to our schools.

And I personally think that that
competition is going to raise

all boats.

Mhm.

Teresa, talk about the
competition factor because I

think at some of the hearings,
I've seen parents who were

keenly aware of when the open
enrollment periods might be for

those suburban school districts.

Parents seem to be very
well-clued in to that in some of

the areas where these
changes take place.

Right, some parents
are very informed.

Of course parents want the
best school that's available for

their child.

And it's up to us to make
sure that we are providing those

services.

Community wide, certain schools
have certain reputations.

And it's not likely that we're
gonna change that within the

course of this school year or
maybe even the next couple of

years.

So schools that are popular
and sought after are going to be

popular and sought
after by these parents.

And the capacity of those
schools is going to be pretty

much full.

And so parents, I think,
parents are educating themself.

And we've encouraged parents to
go to those municipal districts,

go to those meetings, go to
those principals in those areas

and ask what their options are.

And that's one of the reasons we
wanted to have these meetings.

Because parents -- number
one, needed to know what we had

planned for the children in that
they want to educate and also,

have time to
explore other options.

And we've heard all types of
scenarios -- private schools,

of course that's an option.

Education reform is about
change and about choice.

And so parents, I think, even
in the inner-city are becoming

aware that there are
choices out there.

Whether you like
charters or not,

there are choices
for those parents.

So I think parents, as
this process continues,

are going to be more engaged
and more aware and educate

themselves what the
possibilities are.

Mhm.

David, there is the pitch
and then there is the still

unfolding reality that involved
the funding and the budget to

come.

And you talked about this in
Bartlett several weeks ago,

a meeting of the
neighborhood council there.

And a number of the
parents told Keith McDonald,

the mayor of Bartlett.

They said look, the principal of
Bolton High School is making a

really good pitch for our kids.

When are your schools going to
start telling us what they have

to offer?

And you made a point about
what's gonna happen with the

budget because the budget
situation is going to continue

to be complex.

It's going to continue to
involve making some hard choices

and some priorities here.

Well so what you're finding
within the budget this year,

and it's kind of hit
the news here lately,

is significant
amount of staffing cuts.

And one of the big ones that
is part of the staffing cuts is

change in the classroom size.

And Bolton has always --
well, over the last 20 years has

really performed well.

A lot of great programs.

Has international
baccalaureate program there.

Has been a beneficiary of a
desegregation order where a lot

of students in
Bartlett were sent to Bolton.

So for several years, they have
had large amounts of students.

That's why Bartlett
High School has dwindled.

As a result, they've had a lot
of great programs -- theatre,

I-B, all of those programs.

But the unfortunate part is that
we are going to have to make

some adjustments.

And at the end of the day, we
really don't know what the total

impact is going to be to
some of these schools.

We know that some of the
classrooms may get larger.

We don't know if we're gonna
have to cut anything out of

these schools.

So at this point, it's
still kind of up in the air.

And that's what I was
talking about the other night.

A lot of people wanting to know
is my school going to stay the

same way it's always been?

Well most of your teachers will
stay there and probably most of

your programs.

But we can't guarantee that
given the fact we have such a

large budget gap to close.

So I think that the principal
up there is doing a great job of

selling the school.

But I do think that looms a
little bit on the horizon.

So what we're primarily talking
about here is the pupil-teacher

ratio in the classrooms.

And the way Superintendent
Hopson has described it is in

the merger this school year,
we've gone to kind of the middle

between Memphis City and
Shelby County Schools.

Mr, Chairman, how far are we
going to go toward the Memphis

City Schools model or the Shelby
County Schools model once you

all get a look at this budget?

Well what we do know is that we
won't go all the way back to the

Memphis City School model.

I think there was some
misconception that as soon as

the de-merger happened, we would
go back to the Memphis School

model of
staffing, which overall,

you have some of our high
performing schools that did very

well with that staffing model.

You look at how well some of
our schools have done with the

growth.

We know that that model,
although is not ideal,

teachers continue to
do what teachers do,

which is educate kids.

And having a more robust
staffing model toward the Shelby

County side, teachers were
definitely in favor of that.

But Superintendent Hopson did
indicate that he would probably

be looking at somewhere in the
middle of where we were this

year and where
Memphis City was before.

Mr. Reaves is right.

Obviously any time you're
impacting the staffing formula,

you're impacting the number
of kids in the classroom.

We want to make sure that we can
limit that impact in making sure

that we keep most of the
resources going toward the

classroom.

But at the end of the day, I
think Superintendent Hopson is

committed to making sure the
schools that remain in Shelby

County School systems are still
doing what they've done in the

past, which is educate
kids and like at Bolton,

doing a great job at it.

I think more of our principals
should be doing what Bolton is

doing, which is hey,
we were good last year.

We're gonna be good next year.

And we're gonna do everything
to attract kids to our school.

That's not just an
unincorporated issue that we

should be dealing with.

That's every principal
should see it as his or her

responsibility to make sure that
we're attracting families to our

schools.

And once we do that, you'll
continue to see more programs.

Our staffing formula as well
as our budget is based on the

number of students that
we're serving at each school.

So the larger your school is,
the more kids you're serving.

What you'll see is it
impacts your budget greatly.

So I think Bolton is doing
exactly what all principals

should be doing, which is
attracting families to their

school.

So when you go to
vote on the budget,

when you get this book and
you look at the numbers,

where does the
pupil-teacher ratio..

Where is it on the list of your
priorities in setting a budget?

Well I think it's
extremely high.

One of the main concerns I've
heard at the community meetings

from parents and from teachers
-- the number of students in

each classroom.

So that's an important factor.

And to the extent that we can
maintain smaller classrooms,

obviously there will be
certain situations we can not.

But it's at the top of the list.

I can't say one, two or
three in terms of rank.

But it's extremely important
because it's important to

parents.

And I think the data shows that
that has a tremendous impact on

the outcomes.

How much..

We've got a short
amount of time left here.

And I think we have enough
time to kind of get in to this.

But as a result of parental
choice in this through open

enrollment, more choices really
than parents have ever had

within our experience
with public education,

how much are the choices that
they make for this coming school

year going to kind of
re-orient the school system?

Or will it?

Let me start with you.

Yeah, so I think it's just
not this one year journey.

I think it's been happening over
the past couple of years and it

will continue in
the next five years.

Shelby County School system will
not be the same as it used to

be.

The A-S-D will continue
to take over schools.

We'll have more charter schools.

And I think what you'll find at
some point in the future is that

Shelby County may actually be a
small school district compared

to what we've been in the past.

And so but from a
funding view point,

it impacts us tremendously
because we have to do is we have

to scale the district up and
down based upon parental choice.

And it's not easy when you take
a child out of one school or

another school.

You know they're not altogether
because we can't easily change

the number of teachers, right.

So we continue to have overhead
issues that we try to address.

And but I think we're
getting better at that.

And I think that it has forced
us to really adopt a more modern

model to where we can scale
our system to where it's not as

expensive to run from
an overhead view point.

And it's going to continue to
be an issue that we're going to

have to work at over
the next several years.

Mhm.

Kevin, your view on that.

And are we heading toward a
Shelby County School system that

is possibly smaller
than we're looking at?

Well I think at the fact
that the bottom 5% schools,

a majority of them
are in Shelby county.

You obviously know that we're
going to be operating fewer and

fewer schools.

But at the end of the day, I
think Superintendent Hopson is

committed to the fact that
the schools we are running,

if we're servicing
140,000 kids or 80,000 kids,

at the end of the day, are we
doing a great job of educating

those kids.

I think Superintendent Hopson
has stated on many occasions

that what we should be doing is
making sure that we're doing a

great job of every kid having
a great chance at a quality

education.

At the same time, our central
office only exists to service

our schools.

So we have to make sure that
we're operating an efficient

central office to make sure that
all the resources --if it's 200

schools or 100 schools --
that they're getting all the

resources they need to attract
more families to their schools

and the kids that are attending
those schools are getting a

great education.

Mhm.

Teresa, your view on the impact
of parental choice on the school

system?

Well in terms of Shelby
County School system,

I agree.

I think it's going to
be obviously smaller.

We're all waiting with bated
breath this year to determine

those trends and what choices
parents make and to determine

where exactly we will
fall in terms of numbers.

So I think we have to
take every opportunity,

make sure that we are putting
the dollars in the best place

that has the most impact,
that we're looking at the office

staff, that we're
looking at the staffing model,

we're taking advantage of
technology because we are going

to have to be
sleeker, leaner and meaner.

We're going to have to make
better financial choices going

forward.

I don't know that we're ever
going to be small because of the

number of urban children
that the system serves.

But we're certainly
going to be smaller.

Well and during the whole run
up to the de-merger -- to the

merger, I should say -- there
was so much discussion about

Shelby County Schools, the
legacy Shelby County Schools

being a small school
system, which it really wasn't.

Forty-thousand students in a
school system in Tennessee is

not a small school system,
either relatively or just in the

raw numbers of it.

So parents are waiting on the
school board to make a decision

on attendence zones.

And the school board is waiting
on the parents to then make

their decision to
see what you have.

But you know the money travels
with the students to whatever

school system they go to.

And Superintendent Hopson, who
will be on this program next

week, has talked about a dollar
figure in the most recent budget

briefings to kind of kick
off you all's budget season.

What's that number of funding
that he expects to possibly

leave the school
system as a result?

Well if you count in the fact
the kids that are going with the

municipal districts
combined with charter schools,

I've heard numbers as
large as, you know,

$200 million in budget impact.

But at the end of the day, most
of those kids are going to go

with municipal schools and we
knew we were prepared for that.

We knew that was
going to happen.

A-S-D, the
communication with Chris Barbic,

Superintendent Hopson has always
been one that we have an idea of

what's going on their side.

I think the supertintendent has
done a great job of the best he

can to plan for the number of
kids that we're gonna have in

this district.

He indicated just in the
conversation we had recently,

you know, we may get 10,000
fewer kids than we thought or

10,000 more kids than we
thought we were gonna get.

But at the end of the day, we
sure hope to get more than less.

And so what we have to do is
exactly what the principals you

indicated are doing, is making
sure that families know what

their options are, making sure
we're looking at extending our

general transfer process to make
sure families have more time to

choose their school options once
they know what the zoning plans

are.

But just doing eveyrthing we can
to make sure people know that

hey, listen.

There are good
schools in Shelby county.

You need to be aware of what
those schools are and making

sure we're doing the best job
of attracting families to our

schools.

But most importantly, making
sure that we're doing a quality

job at educating our kids.

And then the reputation will
exceed any marketing that we

could possibly do.

Okay.

And we should also point out
that I think the common thing

that I've heard here is that if
you have a child who's a senior,

going to be a senior next year
at one of these high schools

that's affected, the odds are
pretty high that your child is

probably going to
continue to attend that school,

given space considerations are
always being the prime driver

here.

I would say that there
is potential to that.

However, it's still
subject to open enrollment.

And the reality is a lot of
these municipal school are full

like at Houston High
School or Bartlett High School.

They are full with
their own children.

So we're going to run in
to those schools running to

capacity issues.

And it's going to be up to
them to make that decision.

So I don't think we can
guarantee anything because we

can't guarantee
what municipals do.

But I can say that there could
be some difficulties in that

area.

I would indicate I take this
opportunity to say that I think

those municipal boards, those
superintendents will do right by

those families.

Those families have
been there for many years.

They didn't ask
for this process.

I think those boards will
realize that their political

interests may lie with
those folks that vote for them.

But their job as a school board
is to educate those kids that

are currently at those schools.

Alright.

We'll leave the
discussion there.

If we had one more
school board member here,

we would have a quarum and
possibly make some decisions.

But we don't.

Thank you for joining us this
evening and we'll see you next

week with Dorsey Hopson.

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