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- (female announcer) 
  Production funding for

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Behind the Headlines 
  is made possible in part by

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the WKNO Production Fund,

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the WKNO Endowment Fund

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and by viewers 
  like you, thank you.

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- A look at development and 
redevelopment in Memphis,

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tonight on Behind the Headlines.

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[intense orchestral music]

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I'm Eric Barnes with 
The Daily Memphian.

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Thanks for joining us.

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I'm joining tonight by 
Paul Young, President and CEO

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of the Downtown 
Memphis Commission.

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Thanks for being here again. 
- Thank you for having me.

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- First time in person. 
- Yeah.

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- Actually since-- 
- In a long time.

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- In a long time, 
in a long time.

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Thank you.

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Along with Bill Dries,

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reporter with 
The Daily Memphian.

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I wanted to start,

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I mean, Downtown 
Memphis Commission,

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actually, it's 
not just Downtown.

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You guys have actually 
a much bigger footprint

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and influence.

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But I did wanna start talking

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about one specific 
project, 100 North Main,

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not just cause it's an 
iconic building in Memphis

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and it's a big, you know, 
multi, a hundred million,

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two hundred, three hundred 
million redevelopment

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but also in a lot of ways,

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it's emblematic of a 
lot of what's going on.

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So it's about a 100 North 
Main but it's about others.

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And we'll talk about other 
things going on big and small

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throughout Downtown, 
Midtown, Medical District

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and really citywide.

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But one of the interesting 
things about a 100 North Main

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was it was, you know, 
essentially blighted.

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It was sort of abandoned 
by all its tenants.

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It was in great disrepair 
to the frustration of many,

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you know, just again, 
it's a bad look

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when this iconic building 
Downtown is empty and dark.

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Ultimately, and it wasn't 
you, it was your predecessor,

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DMC bought that building.

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And it's a little controversial 
because the developer

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who had let it go dark and 
let it get really blighted,

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ultimately kinda made 
money on the deal.

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And also people question 
should DMC be buying

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and selling buildings?

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I mean is so, but it's worked 
out it seems like, right?

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Billy Orgel has come forward.

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He's had a very 
successful track record.

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Other locals, Kevin Woods, 
and others involved with it.

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Is that a successful 
model for redevelopment

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of blighted 
buildings in Memphis?

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And do you think you might 
end up doing other things

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like that, big or small?

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- Yeah, I do think it's 
a successful model.

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It's a building that was stuck.

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And in some instances,

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particularly in 
Downtown Memphis

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where you have these 
large buildings,

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you have some 
people that believe

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that they can make 
a greater return

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if they just sit on the property

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and it's to the detriment 
of the whole community.

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And so we have a building 
that went dark in 2014, 2015,

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been dark ever 
since, had no future.

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There was no hope 
for the building,

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for the structure at 
least in the short-term.

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And so it was important that DMC

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and the city step 
up to the plate

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and find a way to get 
this property unstuck.

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The way that we did that was 
we acquired the structure

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and you're absolutely correct,

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it started before I got there.

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Jennifer Oswalt and the 
team began the process

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of activating the acquisition.

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They acquired the building 
shortly after I got there.

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I think it was March, April

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when we actually got the 
building in our hands

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and we aggressively put 
forth an RFP for developers.

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We didn't get into this saying

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that we want to develop 
the structure ourselves.

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We knew that we weren't 
quite suited to do that,

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but we knew that we could 
facilitate the development.

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And it was really, 
really exciting.

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And it was a great 
testament to Memphis.

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The fact that we got 11 
teams, 11 qualified teams,

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many of which were outside 
of the Memphis market

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were interested in developing 
the tallest structure

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in Memphis, 37 stories.

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We went through a very 
competitive process.

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It was probably the most 
difficult, competitive process

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that I've been a part of

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because there were so 
many good qualified teams,

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great ideas.

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And I was grateful that we 
had a home team that came

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and put forth a 
competitive application.

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And they're the ones that are 
going to take this property

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into the future. 
- But, quick question,

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will the city actually 
make money on the deal?

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- We won't make money.

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The team did agree to pay

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what we paid for the property. 
- Okay.

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- So we look at that 
as an opportunity

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to be able to 
continue to reinvest.

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And if there are other 
properties that are stuck

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in the future, we 
can use those funds

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to try to do a similar 
process if needed.

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- One more question, 
I'll go to Bill.

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Does the fact that 11 teams,

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again, local and all around 
the country come forward

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with, you know, very, 
very robust proposals.

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Does that speak to maybe 
a turning point in Memphis

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as Downtown development, in 
Memphis development generally?

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And that maybe some 
of what you have to do

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when you have to 
unstuck a building,

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unstick a building or the 
incentives that you all do

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and others do, are those maybe 
not as nest necessary now

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for there is that 
level of demand?

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Or are we still in that business

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where you guys are 
gonna have to step in

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and have to do the kinds of 
incentives you have to do?

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- Yeah, I definitely think 
we're still in that business.

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There's still an economic 
reason for the incentives.

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We were getting to the point

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where the rental rates and 
I'll just talk about housing.

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When you talk about apartments 
in Downtown Memphis,

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we were getting to the 
point where the rental rates

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were starting to tick up

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and it looked like 
the incentives

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will be less necessary 
than they had been in the past.

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But right as we got to that 
point, the pandemic hit

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and the construction 
costs have skyrocketed.

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And so even with the 
uptick in the rental rates,

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it's still difficult for 
project to pencil out.

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And so those incentives 
are still very critical.

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- Ah, Bill.

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- 100 North Main, the 
city's tallest building

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is just less than a block away

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from what was going 
to be the site

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of a second convention 
center hotel.

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That's not gonna happen 
at least with Loews

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and at least at this point.

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Does that change the outlook 
for that general area

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around 100 North Main?

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- I don't think it necessarily 
changes the outlook.

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Obviously, we were 
all looking forward

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to seeing Loews come in 
that space and it's no for now.

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We're hopeful that 
as things settle down

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and the economy moves back 
in the right direction,

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that, that project could 
potentially move forward

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or come back in 
some different form.

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We still have projects 
like the Hyatt Grand

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which is getting close.

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And so we're really 
excited about that.

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That's the project at 1 Beale,

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which is adjacent 
to the Hyatt Centric

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and the Hyatt Caption which 
is under construction.

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I know that's a little 
bit of ways away

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but that just gives us 
optimism with regards

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to our convention aspect.

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In terms of that 
area in particular,

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we still have the size of 
that 100 North Main structure

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still gives us 
significant activity.

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It livens up that block.

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And remember it's not just 
the building 100 North Main,

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there are the four adjacent 
structures that are next to it

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along Main Street.

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And so when you activate 
those structures,

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it still creates a very, very 
vibrant scene on that block.

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- Has the pandemic made 
financing hotels more difficult?

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- Yeah, from what we've heard,

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we've heard that it is more 
difficult during the pandemic,

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you know, as hotels and tourism 
is starting to move back

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into a positive direction,

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I think that financers will 
have more confidence in markets.

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But yeah, it's definitely 
been more difficult.

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- And yet on the other hand,

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we've got the 
hotel construction.

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You mentioned that 
it's part of 1 Beale.

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And there has been some 
talk that I've heard

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that maybe this could lead 
to other hotel developments

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further east, maybe 
at Main and Beale,

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possibly south on Beale

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where I think there 
had been plans

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at Fourth and Beale for it.

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What can you say about that?

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Namely, Main and Beale.

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- Yeah, I can say that 
there's always people looking

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at different projects 
and initiatives

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in Downtown Memphis.

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I actually haven't heard about 
the one in Main and Beale

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that you're you're referencing

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but I do know about the one 
that's over near FedExForum.

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There's a group that's looking 
at acquiring some property

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in that area that has 
some ideas around hotels.

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I still think that we 
have a very strong market.

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There's still a lot of demand.

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There's still a lot of 
developers that are circling

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and trying to figure out the 
right project for Downtown

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whether it's a 
hotel or apartments

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which tend to do very 
well in Downtown Memphis

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and other retail amenities.

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So I have a lot of 
confidence and optimism

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that Downtown is gonna 
continue to be strong

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well into the future.

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- Well, our offices are located 
in the South Main District

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and after being at Fourth 
and Jefferson initially

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for our offices,

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and the contrast has 
been pretty interesting

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with South Main coming along,

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development going up to Crump

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in some cases on the 
other side of Crump.

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Has that kind of 
altered the geometry

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of Downtown development?

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- It's definitely 
stretching Downtown out.

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You know, the 
entertainment district,

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that area around Beale Street

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was traditionally the 
heart of Downtown.

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Now, you have South 
Main being activated.

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You have more activity happening 
in the core with projects

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like the Commonwealth 
on Madison.

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And then when you look 
in the Uptown area,

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the work that's happening 
with Conwood that Billy Orgel

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has been a part of or 
Malone Park Commons

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which Andre Jones has initiated.

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There's a lot of things that 
are happening in Downtown

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that stretching it out 
and adding that vibrancy

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in more parts of Downtown.

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- All that is 
against the backdrop,

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you mentioned COVID and how 
things changed or stopped

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and it obviously had a 
huge impact on tourism.

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It's also had a huge 
impact on offices.

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Memphis already had an okay 
office market Downtown.

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I mean, there was a 
certain amount of vacancy.

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100 North Main 
was an office tower.

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There are others, the former 
Morgan Keegan building

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right on the water and so on.

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The Morgan Keegan building,

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00:10:36,102 --> 00:10:37,504
I'm gonna call it the 
Morgan Keegan building

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'cause I can't 
remember apparently.

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Raymond James, Morgan 
Keegan, it's all the same.

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But right down, 
overlooking the water

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00:10:45,578 --> 00:10:47,547
at, you know, the 
end of Jefferson

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is now I think gonna be 
turned, I think I heard,

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or I think we wrote that 
it's gonna be turned

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00:10:51,584 --> 00:10:53,920
into residences, into 
apartments and there's rumors

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00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:58,224
of other office buildings 
being turned into residential.

250
00:10:58,224 --> 00:10:59,659
Do you see more of that?

251
00:10:59,659 --> 00:11:01,861
And do you all get 
engaged in that

252
00:11:01,861 --> 00:11:03,897
in terms of supporting those 
kinds of transformations?

253
00:11:03,897 --> 00:11:06,599
Because it doesn't seem like 
there's gonna be as much demand

254
00:11:06,599 --> 00:11:08,668
for offices anywhere 
in the country.

255
00:11:08,668 --> 00:11:10,770
Obviously, cities like 
New York and San Francisco

256
00:11:10,770 --> 00:11:12,672
are being hit really hard.

257
00:11:12,672 --> 00:11:15,375
In some ways we have 
the benefit of not having

258
00:11:15,375 --> 00:11:17,911
as much office, you 
know, space Downtown

259
00:11:17,911 --> 00:11:19,812
and so that doesn't 
hit us as hard.

260
00:11:19,812 --> 00:11:22,482
But these transformations 
are gonna be more of them.

261
00:11:22,482 --> 00:11:26,152
- Yeah, so we certainly are 
engaged in those conversations.

262
00:11:26,152 --> 00:11:28,922
We're not quite ready to 
give up on offices just yet.

263
00:11:28,922 --> 00:11:31,858
We know that there's a lot 
of flux as a result of COVID,

264
00:11:31,858 --> 00:11:35,161
but we are starting to hear 
more large employers say

265
00:11:35,161 --> 00:11:37,397
that they want to move 
back into offices.

266
00:11:37,397 --> 00:11:42,402
So our large Downtown companies 
like AutoZone or Terminix,

267
00:11:43,303 --> 00:11:44,804
all of them have been thinking

268
00:11:44,804 --> 00:11:46,973
about when they're going to 
bring people back in the office

269
00:11:46,973 --> 00:11:49,509
and they're in the 
process of doing that.

270
00:11:49,509 --> 00:11:51,277
So while we know that 
some of those buildings

271
00:11:51,277 --> 00:11:54,347
like you referenced are having 
some tough times right now,

272
00:11:54,347 --> 00:11:56,749
we are not necessarily 
pushing them

273
00:11:56,749 --> 00:11:58,184
to make those conversions.

274
00:11:58,184 --> 00:12:00,186
Obviously, if they want 
to do it on their own,

275
00:12:00,186 --> 00:12:02,388
we're supportive 
of them doing it.

276
00:12:02,388 --> 00:12:05,258
We're not necessarily 
looking to incentivize it.

277
00:12:05,258 --> 00:12:08,895
But if they're looking to 
do that, then, you know,--

278
00:12:08,895 --> 00:12:10,363
- That's interesting.

279
00:12:10,363 --> 00:12:12,498
Why so explicit that you 
don't wanna incentivize it?

280
00:12:12,498 --> 00:12:16,936
- Well, we don't want to 
give up on the opportunities

281
00:12:16,936 --> 00:12:20,273
to bring large 
employers to Downtown.

282
00:12:20,273 --> 00:12:21,474
- Got it.

283
00:12:21,474 --> 00:12:24,043
- And when you see large 
structures like that

284
00:12:24,043 --> 00:12:27,947
where there's the potential 
for Class A office space,

285
00:12:27,947 --> 00:12:30,683
for us to incentivize 
that transition

286
00:12:30,683 --> 00:12:34,854
would not necessarily be the 
best use of public dollars.

287
00:12:34,854 --> 00:12:36,322
- But then you've got the risk

288
00:12:36,322 --> 00:12:38,725
that a building like 
that goes dark, right?

289
00:12:38,725 --> 00:12:39,692
I mean, a 100 
North Main coming--

290
00:12:39,692 --> 00:12:40,660
- It's definitely a risk.

291
00:12:40,660 --> 00:12:41,894
It is definitely a risk.

292
00:12:41,894 --> 00:12:44,697
But we believe that 
it's important for us

293
00:12:44,697 --> 00:12:46,366
to maintain opportunities

294
00:12:46,366 --> 00:12:49,068
to bring those large 
companies back to Downtown,

295
00:12:49,068 --> 00:12:50,803
at least in the short-term.

296
00:12:50,803 --> 00:12:54,340
- Yeah, you've mentioned 
before the incentives structure

297
00:12:54,340 --> 00:12:55,808
and that rental rates 
were getting to the point

298
00:12:55,808 --> 00:12:58,277
that those incentives 
weren't quite as necessary.

299
00:12:58,277 --> 00:13:00,913
Obviously, COVID kind of 
turned everything upside down.

300
00:13:00,913 --> 00:13:03,583
We did a show back in 
the fall with a bunch of

301
00:13:03,583 --> 00:13:05,852
housing advocates 
including Dorcas Young,

302
00:13:05,852 --> 00:13:07,987
a woman I think you have 
known for quite a while.

303
00:13:07,987 --> 00:13:09,222
- Heard of her. 
- Heard of her, heard of her.

304
00:13:09,222 --> 00:13:11,958
That's his sister, who 
works for the county

305
00:13:11,958 --> 00:13:14,460
and she and others, 
you know, talked about,

306
00:13:14,460 --> 00:13:17,930
yeah, there is this boom among 
middle and upper middle class

307
00:13:17,930 --> 00:13:21,200
and, you know, higher end 
staff across the city,

308
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,570
but there isn't enough 
affordable housing, you know,

309
00:13:24,570 --> 00:13:26,773
and that, that is a 
dynamic that, you know,

310
00:13:26,773 --> 00:13:28,174
I can't remember 
how many thousands,

311
00:13:28,174 --> 00:13:29,409
it might have been 
tens of thousands

312
00:13:29,409 --> 00:13:33,146
that they need in terms 
of affordable housing,

313
00:13:33,146 --> 00:13:36,883
that people can get into it, 
that even people, this is not,

314
00:13:36,883 --> 00:13:38,351
I mean, this is 
people with jobs.

315
00:13:38,351 --> 00:13:42,789
This is people, maybe not 
the best credit report

316
00:13:42,789 --> 00:13:44,457
but they're working, 
they have the money

317
00:13:44,457 --> 00:13:46,225
and they simply can't 
find a place to live.

318
00:13:46,225 --> 00:13:48,695
You used to run, you know, 
Housing/Community Development

319
00:13:48,695 --> 00:13:50,029
for the city.

320
00:13:50,029 --> 00:13:52,165
You're very close 
to these issues.

321
00:13:53,366 --> 00:13:56,369
How does DMC and how 
do you balance that,

322
00:13:56,369 --> 00:13:59,839
these high end expensive 
apartments going in

323
00:13:59,839 --> 00:14:01,140
for which there's 
a lot of demand,

324
00:14:01,140 --> 00:14:02,508
which pay a lot of taxes,

325
00:14:02,508 --> 00:14:05,578
which makes sense with the 
need for affordable housing?

326
00:14:05,578 --> 00:14:08,414
- Yeah, so the demand 
for affordable housing

327
00:14:08,414 --> 00:14:09,649
obviously is very high.

328
00:14:09,649 --> 00:14:10,917
And if we wanna 
go down that lane,

329
00:14:10,917 --> 00:14:13,386
I can talk pretty 
in depth about it.

330
00:14:13,386 --> 00:14:15,488
The way we balance it 
with Downtown Memphis

331
00:14:15,488 --> 00:14:18,958
is we ensure that any property 
that receives an incentive,

332
00:14:18,958 --> 00:14:21,794
our biggest incentive 
being the PILOT program.

333
00:14:21,794 --> 00:14:24,330
But any property 
that receives a PILOT

334
00:14:24,330 --> 00:14:27,166
must have at least 20% 
of their units serve

335
00:14:27,166 --> 00:14:31,137
families that earn at least 
80% of the area median income

336
00:14:31,137 --> 00:14:34,741
which is a, you know, 
working class wage.

337
00:14:34,741 --> 00:14:36,242
We believe that it's 
really important

338
00:14:36,242 --> 00:14:39,445
that we have a diverse mix 
of housing in Downtown.

339
00:14:39,445 --> 00:14:42,682
We wanna make sure that the 
people that live Downtown

340
00:14:42,682 --> 00:14:45,051
reflect the culture and 
the character of the city,

341
00:14:45,051 --> 00:14:48,121
that we continue to have 
the vibe of Memphis.

342
00:14:48,121 --> 00:14:50,590
We don't wanna be a city 
where all of the people

343
00:14:50,590 --> 00:14:52,258
that make Memphis, Memphis,

344
00:14:52,258 --> 00:14:54,160
aren't able to 
afford to live there.

345
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:58,498
And so we balance that by 
ensuring that the projects

346
00:14:58,498 --> 00:15:01,801
that we incentivize have 
that affordability component.

347
00:15:01,801 --> 00:15:03,202
In addition to that,

348
00:15:03,202 --> 00:15:06,439
we also have some larger 
affordable housing developments

349
00:15:06,439 --> 00:15:10,143
like South City which is 
a mixed income development

350
00:15:10,143 --> 00:15:12,278
which is right on 
the cusp of Downtown,

351
00:15:12,278 --> 00:15:15,548
is kind of the bridge between 
Downtown and South Memphis.

352
00:15:15,548 --> 00:15:19,152
You also see projects like 
what Elmington Capital

353
00:15:19,152 --> 00:15:20,720
has been doing in Downtown.

354
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,289
So Forum Flats, Patterson Flats,

355
00:15:23,289 --> 00:15:25,224
there's some other 
properties in Uptown

356
00:15:25,224 --> 00:15:28,227
which are truly affordable 
housing developments

357
00:15:28,227 --> 00:15:30,096
with low income 
housing tax credits.

358
00:15:30,096 --> 00:15:32,331
And so as long as we 
continue to see projects

359
00:15:32,331 --> 00:15:35,568
like that take place along 
with the higher end projects,

360
00:15:35,568 --> 00:15:38,004
we believe that we'll 
have a good mix Downtown.

361
00:15:39,739 --> 00:15:41,774
- And to that end, 
I think South City

362
00:15:41,774 --> 00:15:45,178
is just about to 
start its last phase.

363
00:15:45,178 --> 00:15:47,880
- Yeah, it's getting close. 
- Yeah.

364
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,285
And as that's happened, 
well, the thought initially

365
00:15:52,285 --> 00:15:54,320
was all of this is 
going to link up.

366
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,122
South City is going to link up

367
00:15:56,122 --> 00:15:59,458
to what's happening further 
west toward to toward the river.

368
00:16:01,060 --> 00:16:03,429
And these things certainly 
don't happen by accident

369
00:16:03,429 --> 00:16:05,164
or by osmosis either.

370
00:16:05,164 --> 00:16:10,169
So in South City's case, I 
think a lot of this was informed

371
00:16:11,470 --> 00:16:13,339
by other HOPE VI 
federally funded projects

372
00:16:14,207 --> 00:16:16,242
which does to your housing

373
00:16:16,242 --> 00:16:18,644
and community development 
background again.

374
00:16:18,644 --> 00:16:22,982
But what have we seen 
so far from South City

375
00:16:22,982 --> 00:16:26,285
in terms of living 
up to that promise?

376
00:16:26,285 --> 00:16:27,553
- I think it's 
definitely lived up.

377
00:16:27,553 --> 00:16:30,256
Obviously it's a very 
attractive development

378
00:16:30,256 --> 00:16:31,490
if you drive by there.

379
00:16:32,892 --> 00:16:36,095
The structures look amazing and 
it feels like a neighborhood

380
00:16:36,095 --> 00:16:37,330
and it feels like a neighborhood

381
00:16:37,330 --> 00:16:40,199
that's integrated with 
the community around it.

382
00:16:40,199 --> 00:16:42,068
I think we're already 
seeing the impact.

383
00:16:42,068 --> 00:16:44,370
I don't think you would 
see a project like the Walk

384
00:16:44,370 --> 00:16:46,239
which was proposed 
a few years ago

385
00:16:46,239 --> 00:16:48,908
and they are getting very close.

386
00:16:48,908 --> 00:16:50,643
You wouldn't see 
projects like the Walk

387
00:16:50,643 --> 00:16:53,179
but for projects 
like South City.

388
00:16:53,179 --> 00:16:55,648
You wouldn't see 
projects like Butler Row

389
00:16:55,648 --> 00:16:57,316
which was just 
proposed at the corner

390
00:16:57,316 --> 00:16:59,552
of G.E. Patterson and Second.

391
00:16:59,552 --> 00:17:01,687
You wouldn't see Wiseacre

392
00:17:01,687 --> 00:17:03,823
which is located 
on B.B. King rather.

393
00:17:05,224 --> 00:17:07,126
You wouldn't see those 
things take place.

394
00:17:07,126 --> 00:17:12,131
You have projects that COGIC 
are doing along Vance Avenue.

395
00:17:13,499 --> 00:17:15,902
Also on Vance, you have a 
project that I was involved with

396
00:17:15,902 --> 00:17:19,338
before I came to DMC 
at Fourth and Vance

397
00:17:19,338 --> 00:17:23,442
where Tyrone Burroughs 
and Scott Bojko

398
00:17:23,442 --> 00:17:26,112
are working on a new 
development right there.

399
00:17:26,112 --> 00:17:28,681
There are a lot of things 
that are happening adjacent

400
00:17:28,681 --> 00:17:31,117
to South City that would 
not have taken place

401
00:17:31,117 --> 00:17:34,253
but for the investment that 
the city and HUD and others

402
00:17:34,253 --> 00:17:35,588
made into that project.

403
00:17:37,189 --> 00:17:40,226
- And this is one 
of those projects

404
00:17:40,226 --> 00:17:44,330
where there's been a lot of 
discussion about displacement.

405
00:17:44,330 --> 00:17:47,066
And in this case, there 
are actually more units

406
00:17:47,066 --> 00:17:49,502
on the sites of the 
two housing projects,

407
00:17:49,502 --> 00:17:52,038
public housing developments 
that were there

408
00:17:52,038 --> 00:17:54,240
than there were before 
this transition.

409
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:58,044
- Yeah, I think there 
were 420 units on the site

410
00:17:58,044 --> 00:18:01,547
before the property 
was demolished.

411
00:18:01,547 --> 00:18:04,417
They're rebuilding 712 units,

412
00:18:04,417 --> 00:18:06,986
four hundred and sixty of 
which will be affordable.

413
00:18:06,986 --> 00:18:08,421
So there's actually 
more affordable

414
00:18:08,421 --> 00:18:11,824
housing on the site 
than previously existed.

415
00:18:11,824 --> 00:18:15,061
And back when I was 
involved around a year ago,

416
00:18:15,061 --> 00:18:18,064
in terms of the numbers of 
people that had returned

417
00:18:18,064 --> 00:18:19,532
to the property,

418
00:18:19,532 --> 00:18:22,168
that number was well beyond 
what we had seen return

419
00:18:22,168 --> 00:18:24,670
at other projects that 
had been done in the past.

420
00:18:24,670 --> 00:18:27,840
So I believe that it's 
a positive for Downtown.

421
00:18:30,509 --> 00:18:35,514
- In terms of Memphians 
adapting to this new thing

422
00:18:36,248 --> 00:18:37,717
of mixed income housing,

423
00:18:37,717 --> 00:18:41,253
because we did tend in this 
city and in other cities

424
00:18:41,253 --> 00:18:43,856
to segregate ourselves 
economically and racially

425
00:18:43,856 --> 00:18:48,227
without there being 
laws involving that.

426
00:18:50,796 --> 00:18:53,599
Have Memphians changed 
their mind about that?

427
00:18:53,599 --> 00:18:56,969
Are they more willing 
to look at mixed income,

428
00:18:56,969 --> 00:18:59,905
mixed use neighborhoods as well?

429
00:18:59,905 --> 00:19:00,873
- Yeah, I think so.

430
00:19:00,873 --> 00:19:02,842
I mean, if you look Downtown,

431
00:19:02,842 --> 00:19:06,212
any residential project 
that gets completed,

432
00:19:06,212 --> 00:19:07,780
fills up relatively quick

433
00:19:07,780 --> 00:19:10,316
because people like 
that lifestyle.

434
00:19:10,316 --> 00:19:13,019
And always take it back 
to how my parents grew up.

435
00:19:13,019 --> 00:19:14,687
My parents grew up 
in South Memphis.

436
00:19:14,687 --> 00:19:16,155
Both of them grew up 
in different parts

437
00:19:16,155 --> 00:19:17,356
of South Memphis.

438
00:19:17,356 --> 00:19:18,591
And in their neighborhood,

439
00:19:18,591 --> 00:19:21,360
they had the janitor living 
next door to the teacher,

440
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:24,030
next door to the doctor, 
next door to the lawyer.

441
00:19:24,030 --> 00:19:27,433
And so we had mixed 
income communities.

442
00:19:27,433 --> 00:19:30,836
It's the way neighborhoods 
were traditionally made.

443
00:19:30,836 --> 00:19:32,538
And we're just 
going back to that.

444
00:19:33,806 --> 00:19:37,777
- You mentioned we could 
talk a lot more on...

445
00:19:37,777 --> 00:19:39,178
Well, we've got 
seven minutes left

446
00:19:39,178 --> 00:19:41,447
so let me move along and 
we'll get you back soon

447
00:19:41,447 --> 00:19:43,516
to talk more about this 
affordable mix and so on

448
00:19:43,516 --> 00:19:45,518
because it's a fascinating 
development we did.

449
00:19:45,518 --> 00:19:47,453
Archie Willis who you 
were on the show with,

450
00:19:47,453 --> 00:19:48,888
who's developer, South City,

451
00:19:48,888 --> 00:19:50,222
and Roshun Austin 
were on recently.

452
00:19:50,222 --> 00:19:52,525
We talked about the 
area around Northside

453
00:19:52,525 --> 00:19:55,361
and just what it takes 
to rebuild neighborhoods

454
00:19:55,361 --> 00:19:57,329
and people like you who've 
been in the heart of it.

455
00:19:57,329 --> 00:19:58,831
But we'll move on.

456
00:19:58,831 --> 00:20:00,966
You mentioned Union Walk 
was originally Union Row.

457
00:20:00,966 --> 00:20:03,369
And so, you know, for 
people who don't live

458
00:20:03,369 --> 00:20:04,637
or work Downtown,

459
00:20:04,637 --> 00:20:05,971
maybe just come down 
sometimes for a game

460
00:20:05,971 --> 00:20:07,206
or for, you know, whatever,

461
00:20:07,206 --> 00:20:09,141
a restaurant or 
Orpheum or something.

462
00:20:10,676 --> 00:20:12,478
As you're coming down 
Union towards Downtown,

463
00:20:12,478 --> 00:20:14,480
the big vacant lot, right?

464
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,283
That they're, it's a, 
what, billion dollar plus

465
00:20:17,283 --> 00:20:19,385
proposed development 
over 20 years.

466
00:20:20,786 --> 00:20:22,288
But it's been stuck.

467
00:20:22,288 --> 00:20:25,291
You said it's looks like 
they're about to move on that.

468
00:20:25,291 --> 00:20:27,026
- Yeah, they're getting close.

469
00:20:27,026 --> 00:20:28,894
- Do you worry about,

470
00:20:28,894 --> 00:20:31,464
I mean, there's still empty 
spaces in Downtown, right?

471
00:20:31,464 --> 00:20:35,734
As much, I mean, I've worked 
down there for 20 years.

472
00:20:35,734 --> 00:20:37,236
It lived down there off and on.

473
00:20:39,205 --> 00:20:41,874
How do you approach that, the 
projects that get delayed?

474
00:20:41,874 --> 00:20:43,742
You know, I mean, we 
sometimes are guilty

475
00:20:43,742 --> 00:20:46,345
of running a headline, you 
know, billion dollar proposal,

476
00:20:46,345 --> 00:20:48,013
two hundred million 
dollar proposal.

477
00:20:48,013 --> 00:20:51,150
Really though, it's not 
done, it's not cooked,

478
00:20:51,150 --> 00:20:54,286
it's not ready and it's 
years from breaking ground.

479
00:20:54,286 --> 00:20:55,855
How do you handle that?

480
00:20:55,855 --> 00:20:57,523
Do you keep pressure 
on the developers?

481
00:20:57,523 --> 00:20:59,024
Do you just kind of 
stay in touch with them?

482
00:20:59,024 --> 00:21:01,026
Do you ask them 
to mow the lawns,

483
00:21:01,026 --> 00:21:02,895
and, you know, 
paint the surfaces,

484
00:21:02,895 --> 00:21:04,130
you know, keep things tidy?

485
00:21:04,130 --> 00:21:05,731
I mean, how, how does that work?

486
00:21:05,731 --> 00:21:07,967
- Yeah, I mean for 
The Walk specifically,

487
00:21:07,967 --> 00:21:10,636
obviously, we have a very 
close working relationship

488
00:21:10,636 --> 00:21:12,004
because there's a lot of nuance

489
00:21:12,004 --> 00:21:14,740
that goes into a 
project that big.

490
00:21:14,740 --> 00:21:17,009
There are a lot of steps 
and obviously they ran

491
00:21:17,009 --> 00:21:20,913
into the pandemic as a part 
of that so that didn't help.

492
00:21:22,114 --> 00:21:24,283
But in terms of how we 
handle it in general,

493
00:21:25,618 --> 00:21:28,788
people come to us relatively 
early in the process

494
00:21:28,788 --> 00:21:30,256
when they have an idea.

495
00:21:30,256 --> 00:21:33,492
Because if they're not 
able to get the incentive

496
00:21:33,492 --> 00:21:35,227
then the rest of the 
deal doesn't work.

497
00:21:35,227 --> 00:21:37,096
So it's only so far 
that they're going to go

498
00:21:37,096 --> 00:21:39,498
without coming before our board

499
00:21:39,498 --> 00:21:41,300
and getting the approval 
for the incentive

500
00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:43,669
and then that kicks off 
a lot of the other work

501
00:21:43,669 --> 00:21:45,838
to do the financing, 
complete drawings.

502
00:21:45,838 --> 00:21:48,941
And so typically when 
project comes to us,

503
00:21:48,941 --> 00:21:52,645
they're about a year from 
actually starting anyway.

504
00:21:52,645 --> 00:21:54,480
And sometimes they're 
a little bit closer,

505
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:55,848
but at least a year.

506
00:21:55,848 --> 00:21:58,551
And so we just continue 
to talk to them.

507
00:21:58,551 --> 00:22:01,153
We do regular 
check-ins, you know,

508
00:22:01,153 --> 00:22:02,588
if we hadn't heard 
anything in a while.

509
00:22:02,588 --> 00:22:04,757
Most of the time they 
keep us in the loop

510
00:22:04,757 --> 00:22:07,359
because there's different 
questions that they have for us.

511
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:08,827
- How often do you have 
to go to a developer

512
00:22:08,827 --> 00:22:12,231
and just say, hey, we're gonna 
pull back those incentives

513
00:22:12,231 --> 00:22:14,700
because you've 
just taken too long

514
00:22:14,700 --> 00:22:17,069
to get going on this project?

515
00:22:17,069 --> 00:22:18,571
- It's happened.

516
00:22:18,571 --> 00:22:20,439
It hadn't happened as 
much since I've been there

517
00:22:20,439 --> 00:22:21,874
'cause I've only been 
there for a year.

518
00:22:21,874 --> 00:22:23,676
But I know that it's 
happened in the past.

519
00:22:23,676 --> 00:22:26,579
And certainly when we 
reached that point,

520
00:22:26,579 --> 00:22:28,047
we certainly will do that.

521
00:22:28,047 --> 00:22:30,716
For us right now, we are 
reviewing our PILOT program.

522
00:22:30,716 --> 00:22:35,721
So it's a big deal if we 
change course on a PILOT

523
00:22:36,589 --> 00:22:37,823
that has already been approved.

524
00:22:37,823 --> 00:22:39,024
Because if they 
had to come back,

525
00:22:39,024 --> 00:22:40,259
then they would 
have to be approved

526
00:22:40,259 --> 00:22:42,728
under whatever the new 
terms of our PILOTs are.

527
00:22:42,728 --> 00:22:43,662
- Yeah, Bill?

528
00:22:45,030 --> 00:22:47,032
- And, while the incentives 
provide some assurance

529
00:22:47,032 --> 00:22:49,735
to lenders and things like that,

530
00:22:49,735 --> 00:22:53,038
that's not the green 
light for these projects.

531
00:22:53,038 --> 00:22:55,074
The lenders have a 
lot more due diligence

532
00:22:55,074 --> 00:22:57,176
past those incentives, 
don't they?

533
00:22:57,176 --> 00:22:59,411
- Absolutely, I mean, 
the lenders want to ensure

534
00:22:59,411 --> 00:23:00,946
that the project 
is going to work.

535
00:23:00,946 --> 00:23:03,883
They have to find, you know, 
if there are retail spaces.

536
00:23:03,883 --> 00:23:05,951
They have to be 
sure that they know

537
00:23:05,951 --> 00:23:09,822
what the tenants are going 
to look like in that space.

538
00:23:09,822 --> 00:23:13,292
They have to secure 
the equity for the deal.

539
00:23:13,292 --> 00:23:15,060
So they may have a 
portion of the equity

540
00:23:15,060 --> 00:23:17,763
and they have to go and 
raise the rest of the equity,

541
00:23:17,763 --> 00:23:19,498
whether they go into, you know,

542
00:23:19,498 --> 00:23:22,935
large New York Wall Street 
groups for that equity

543
00:23:22,935 --> 00:23:26,538
or trying to find local 
people to put in equity

544
00:23:26,538 --> 00:23:27,773
on the projects.

545
00:23:27,773 --> 00:23:29,942
They still have quite 
a bit of work to do

546
00:23:29,942 --> 00:23:32,111
in order to get those 
deals finalized.

547
00:23:32,111 --> 00:23:36,715
- Are they as leery 
as Eric talked about

548
00:23:36,715 --> 00:23:40,019
of, okay, there's all 
this big bang of publicity

549
00:23:40,019 --> 00:23:41,687
about this project.

550
00:23:41,687 --> 00:23:45,524
And they're the folks who 
have to get to the real meat

551
00:23:45,524 --> 00:23:47,092
of the matter on this.

552
00:23:47,092 --> 00:23:49,428
So I would imagine in some cases

553
00:23:49,428 --> 00:23:51,897
that they can be pretty 
skeptical about that.

554
00:23:51,897 --> 00:23:54,300
- Yeah, sometimes, 
but I don't think

555
00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:57,803
necessarily the public 
pressure influences the bank.

556
00:23:57,803 --> 00:23:59,905
I think that, well, 
obviously public pressure

557
00:23:59,905 --> 00:24:01,140
influences everything,

558
00:24:01,140 --> 00:24:03,309
but in terms of the 
bank's decisions,

559
00:24:03,309 --> 00:24:07,046
they are more rooted in 
will the project cash flow,

560
00:24:07,046 --> 00:24:09,948
will it be sustainable 
for the term of the loan?

561
00:24:09,948 --> 00:24:11,917
I mean, that's what they 
wanna know is making sure

562
00:24:11,917 --> 00:24:15,187
that the project will be 
able to repay whatever debt

563
00:24:15,187 --> 00:24:16,655
they're taking out.

564
00:24:16,655 --> 00:24:19,058
And so they go through very 
strenuous means to ensure that.

565
00:24:20,859 --> 00:24:22,161
- Just two minutes left here.

566
00:24:22,161 --> 00:24:23,729
I wanted to talk 
about, we didn't talk

567
00:24:23,729 --> 00:24:26,899
about the Mobility Center 
which is the big, you know,

568
00:24:26,899 --> 00:24:30,135
garage and retail space 
and all kinds of things

569
00:24:30,135 --> 00:24:31,503
going in right 
next to The Orpheum

570
00:24:31,503 --> 00:24:33,038
that people are down 
there, they see that.

571
00:24:33,038 --> 00:24:35,174
That will be finished 
real quickly--

572
00:24:35,174 --> 00:24:36,475
- Next summer.

573
00:24:36,475 --> 00:24:37,643
- Next summer. 
- Next summer, summer 2023.

574
00:24:37,643 --> 00:24:39,578
- Okay, lemme talk for a minute.

575
00:24:39,578 --> 00:24:41,613
This is not enough time to 
talk about it, about crime.

576
00:24:41,613 --> 00:24:42,848
You all don't have 
a police force.

577
00:24:42,848 --> 00:24:43,949
You don't run the police force.

578
00:24:43,949 --> 00:24:45,451
I understand that.

579
00:24:45,451 --> 00:24:47,152
But, you know, there's a 
spike in crime nationally,

580
00:24:47,152 --> 00:24:48,687
there's a spike 
in crime locally.

581
00:24:48,687 --> 00:24:51,357
And it's definitely at more 
of a topic of conversation.

582
00:24:51,357 --> 00:24:53,292
It's always been a topic 
conversation in Memphis,

583
00:24:53,292 --> 00:24:55,594
I think in most cities, 
but more so now.

584
00:24:55,594 --> 00:24:58,931
How do you coordinate and 
what is your perception

585
00:24:58,931 --> 00:25:00,432
of what's going on with crime

586
00:25:00,432 --> 00:25:02,968
and what would you like to see 
the police force do more of,

587
00:25:02,968 --> 00:25:04,403
or the city do more of?

588
00:25:04,403 --> 00:25:06,638
Or is that not even something 
that you yourself with?

589
00:25:06,638 --> 00:25:09,041
- Oh yeah, we certainly 
concern ourselves with it.

590
00:25:09,041 --> 00:25:11,777
We are funded by a 
commercial assessment

591
00:25:11,777 --> 00:25:14,246
on commercial property 
owners in Downtown Memphis.

592
00:25:14,246 --> 00:25:16,949
So when things are going awry, 
they certainly let us know

593
00:25:16,949 --> 00:25:19,251
and they want us to 
act on their behalf.

594
00:25:19,251 --> 00:25:22,955
And so we coordinate with 
Memphis Police Department

595
00:25:22,955 --> 00:25:24,390
on a regular basis.

596
00:25:24,390 --> 00:25:27,393
I recently had a meeting 
with Chief Davis and her team

597
00:25:27,393 --> 00:25:30,729
and we talked about some 
things that we can do

598
00:25:30,729 --> 00:25:33,165
to make Downtown safer.

599
00:25:33,165 --> 00:25:36,602
We're looking at some lighting 
strategies being funded

600
00:25:36,602 --> 00:25:38,404
by Shelby County Commission

601
00:25:38,404 --> 00:25:41,340
where we're gonna increase 
the light in different areas.

602
00:25:42,274 --> 00:25:44,977
The MPDs looking 
at bike patrols,

603
00:25:44,977 --> 00:25:47,279
some things that they can add.

604
00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:48,514
We're doing some things

605
00:25:48,514 --> 00:25:51,884
to reduce some of 
the chaotic activity

606
00:25:51,884 --> 00:25:54,219
by having some of the 
scooters cut off late at night

607
00:25:54,219 --> 00:25:57,556
'cause sometimes the scooters 
dart in and outta traffic.

608
00:25:57,556 --> 00:25:59,691
On late nights, and that's 
just not a good mix.

609
00:25:59,691 --> 00:26:04,029
And so we concern ourselves 
quite a bit with public safety

610
00:26:04,029 --> 00:26:05,297
and our goal is to coordinate

611
00:26:05,297 --> 00:26:06,999
with our Blue Suede 
Brigade team, MPD

612
00:26:09,168 --> 00:26:10,669
and even the 
Sheriff's Department.

613
00:26:10,669 --> 00:26:12,070
- Okay, well again, I 
didn't give you enough time,

614
00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:13,572
but I appreciate 
you answering that.

615
00:26:13,572 --> 00:26:14,540
Thank you for being here, Paul.

616
00:26:14,540 --> 00:26:15,774
Thank you Bill.

617
00:26:15,774 --> 00:26:16,809
That is all the time 
we have this week.

618
00:26:16,809 --> 00:26:18,043
If you missed any of the show,

619
00:26:18,043 --> 00:26:20,379
you can get the full 
video at wkno.org

620
00:26:20,379 --> 00:26:22,080
or you can get the full 
podcast of the show

621
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,982
at The Daily Memphian 
site, iTunes, Spotify,

622
00:26:23,982 --> 00:26:25,317
or wherever you 
get your podcasts.

623
00:26:25,317 --> 00:26:26,718
Thanks and we'll 
see you next week.

624
00:26:26,718 --> 00:26:30,255
[intense orchestral music]

625
00:26:30,255 --> 00:26:32,257
[acoustic guitar chords]