WEBVTT
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Production funding for
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Behind the Headlines
is made possible in part by
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the WKNO Production Fund,
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and by viewers
like you, thank you.
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- The debate over tax incentives
and economic development
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tonight on
Behind the Headlines.
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[intense orchestral music]
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I'm Eric Barnes of
The Daily Memphian.
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Thanks for joining us.
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I am joined tonight
by Martavius Jones
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from the Memphis City Council.
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Councilman, thanks
for being here.
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- Thank you for having me.
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- Along with Tami Sawyer, from
the Shelby County Commission.
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Commissioner Sawyer,
thank you for being here.
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- Thank you so
much for having me.
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- Along with Bill Dries,
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reporter with,
The Daily Memphian.
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We are talking today about
this conversation, this debate
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that has been going on as
long as we've been doing
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Behind the Headlines
and certainly before that,
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about how the County, the City,
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the region does tax incentives.
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Scheduling note that we taped
this before a joint meeting
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of the City Council and
the County Commission
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that happened the
day before this airs.
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And also last week,
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we did a show with Reid
Dulberger from EDGE,
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which is the entity
that administers
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many of the tax
incentives in town.
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As well as Worth Morgan,
a City Councilman
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who would like to streamline
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and change in probably
a different direction
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than I believe the
two guests today.
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And that show is available
online at wkno.org.
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But I will start with
you Councilman Jones,
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what are you calling
for in terms of changes
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to how PILOTs and other
tax incentives happen?
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- First Eric I think we
need to have the discussion
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and review of the EDGE Board.
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EDGE was constituted for
approximately 10 years ago.
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And we need to as
the elected officials
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that delegated
our responsibility
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the County Commission
and the City Council
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I think we need to have
a discussion to see
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if we're satisfied with
what the results have been,
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if there are any adjustments
that are necessary
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and how do we move forward?
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You know, I look back
at what may have been
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the major employment wins
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and they seem to
have been short lived
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when it comes to the incentive.
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The most recent
being ServiceMaster.
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But when we talk about
Electrolux and Mitsubishi
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some of the ones that received
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some of the greatest incentives,
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they didn't seem to last long.
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So I don't think
that we're getting
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and those are just
the high profile ones
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the ones that make
the headlines.
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I'm of the opinion we're
not getting the results
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that were intended.
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- And are you calling for,
when you talk about the vote
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and the Council to have a
vote on specific projects
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that do and don't
get incentives,
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or did I misunderstand you?
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- Yes and so there's, you know
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there are a number
of different factors
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when these PILOTs and these
others incentives are being,
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when they're being evaluated.
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You know, there's one that
generally a cost-benefit ratio.
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And so if one has a
cost-benefit ratio less than one
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that means that it's costing us
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more than it's benefiting us.
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And I think that if we're
gonna enter into an arrangement
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where we have that
negative cost-benefit,
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I think the elected
officials need to know why
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and we need to be
the ones approving it
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because we're the ones who
are directly accountable
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to the taxpayers.
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And that's just
one aspect of it.
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- Got it.
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And Tami Sawyer from
your perspective,
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what sort of changes
are you calling for?
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- There's two major things
that I'm looking at Eric.
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First with the tax incentives
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that we give as a
County and as a City,
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me being a resident of Memphis,
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I believe that the
incentives that come through
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need to have community
investments attached to them.
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Currently, we give this
incentives out willy-nilly
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with no requirement to
invest in our schools,
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our roads, you know and it
remains a continuous issue.
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We say that we need to
incentivize businesses
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choosing Memphis.
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And we blame our workforce.
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We say that we don't
have a strong workforce.
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Remember up until
three years ago,
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our city was marketed as
one of the lowest wage,
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lowest places to pay
wages in the country.
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And so what I would like to
see is incentives redone,
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repackaged with some
type of community fund
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requiring these companies,
the larger ones especially.
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This is not
necessarily focusing on
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small business development
but on the larger companies
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to invest in the community,
whether that be childcare,
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school systems,
roads, et cetera.
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And then second to
Councilman Jones' point.
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There needs to be
more oversight.
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I actually would love
to use my counterparts
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the Republicans
talking points here
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where during the COVID crisis
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they have continuously
shown chagrin
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for the role of the
health department
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and said, "We are listening
to non-elected people.
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Why are we allowing non-elected
people to make decisions,"
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and their attacks on
the health department.
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Here we are putting our
largest business decisions
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in the hands of EDGE and DMC
who are extremely powerful
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and the average Memphian
wouldn't even know
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what those acronyms
mean and who runs them.
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- Yeah and EDGE is the Economic
Development Growth Engine
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that again we had the CEO,
President on last week
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and they administered
the PILOTs,
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the payment in lieu of taxes,
as well as some other grants.
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DMC is Downtown
Memphis Commission,
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which is probably
one of the biggest,
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if not the biggest
incentive giver.
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One more question to you
on what you just said
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and then we'll go to Bill.
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On this notion of
investment so it is the idea
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that for a company
to get say a PILOT,
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and you know, you're talking
about larger companies,
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not small businesses.
06:14.341 --> 06:15.942
That they would
also have to spend,
06:15.942 --> 06:19.012
commit to spending cash on
say, schools or childcare,
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that there would be committed
cash outlays on the part
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of the company that's
being recruited?
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- Yes I mean, I haven't
spelled the entire thing out
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but I do believe yes, that
that is what's important.
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If you're coming here and
you want the talent, right?
06:33.827 --> 06:36.930
ServiceMaster says they
need to go to Atlanta,
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their new parent company
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"that's where the talent
is," quote unquote.
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But you know, we know
that the current statistic
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for our schools is
we're graduating
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only a third of our students,
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prepared for work
or college, right?
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And if we have all of
these Fortune 500 companies
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and large businesses that
are getting tax incentives
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and we're still producing low
education for our students,
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they should have some
type of commitment.
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If we're not gonna
change our budget
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to invest in education,
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if we're gonna focus on
business development,
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then the businesses
should be required
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to invest in our youth.
07:14.434 --> 07:17.637
- And I think the proponents,
and again, I'm sorry Bill.
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But the proponents of
these incentives would say,
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"Well they are still
paying property taxes
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and those property taxes
do go to the schools."
07:24.744 --> 07:27.280
And the second perspective
that they always have
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to think into
something like that is
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they won't come to Memphis.
07:30.884 --> 07:33.486
They will go to another
city or another state
07:33.486 --> 07:36.189
where they don't have to
make those investments.
07:36.189 --> 07:39.693
Because it's all sort
of the low cost choice
07:39.693 --> 07:41.728
in terms of what
incentives are on the table
07:41.728 --> 07:45.065
because, you know thousands of
entities around the country,
07:45.065 --> 07:46.800
cities, state and region
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are doing these
sorts of incentives.
07:48.068 --> 07:49.202
So again, your response to that
07:49.202 --> 07:51.037
and then Bill I
promise I'll go to you.
07:51.037 --> 07:52.872
- Yeah, very quickly
I would just say that
07:52.872 --> 07:54.574
if you look at what's happening
07:54.574 --> 07:56.576
with tax incentives
across the country,
07:56.576 --> 07:59.879
reform is the word of the day.
07:59.879 --> 08:02.716
Boston is reforming
their tax incentives
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to be more inclusive
in the community.
08:05.318 --> 08:09.656
Washington, DC required
35% MWBE investment.
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That's investment in Minority
and Women-owned Businesses
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for the building of
the National Harbor.
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That was almost what a
billion dollar development.
08:17.897 --> 08:21.401
And so when we say like, we
can't make these requirements
08:21.401 --> 08:24.471
or people won't come,
how does that work
08:24.471 --> 08:27.907
when we see major
cities making changes
08:27.907 --> 08:29.676
that impact their community?
08:29.676 --> 08:32.078
San Antonio redid
the entire system.
08:33.179 --> 08:36.049
You know, Atlanta where
people were going,
08:36.049 --> 08:37.751
has requirements to invest
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in Minority-owned businesses
in the communities.
08:41.020 --> 08:43.490
Memphis has low self-esteem
when it comes to these things,
08:43.490 --> 08:44.991
we think we can't
require things,
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or people won't come here,
08:46.493 --> 08:48.128
when everywhere else is like
08:48.128 --> 08:49.696
you're not gonna play
my people like that.
08:49.696 --> 08:54.300
New York is requiring
statewide 30% MWBE investment.
08:54.300 --> 08:56.503
And we're still like, "Oh, no."
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- Right, Bill go ahead.
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- Councilman, let me
ask you about EDGE's
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current requirement,
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kind of the entry level
requirement on wages
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which is $13 an
hour plus employer
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subsidized health insurance
or healthcare access.
09:18.758 --> 09:23.029
Is $13 an hour with that
stipulation, is that enough?
09:23.029 --> 09:25.865
- No, frankly no.
09:25.865 --> 09:28.201
Just a few council meetings ago,
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Mrs. Beverly Robinson, who
is the chair of the Chamber,
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provided a presentation to
the Memphis City Council.
09:33.973 --> 09:38.978
And it indicated that for
a single working person
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with one child,
that the living wage
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is closer to $21 an hour.
09:46.219 --> 09:48.922
So I would contend that
we are incentivizing
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our continued poverty
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if we look at and settle
on $13 an hour as the floor
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as far as providing incentives.
09:57.564 --> 10:00.967
I by no means am I saying
that we should do away
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with the incentives.
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I just think we need
to be more deliberate,
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we need to set more direction
of the types of employers
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and the types of industries
that we incentivize.
10:11.377 --> 10:14.747
But clearly, $13 an
hour is not enough.
10:14.747 --> 10:16.783
And we shouldn't
be incentivizing.
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- Commissioner, what's
your thought on this,
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is this all about a
certain wage an hour?
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- That's a very important
point absolutely.
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Thirteen dollars an hour
is not minimum wage anymore.
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Fifteen dollars is minimum wage
and we're very close to that
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not even being
the talking point.
10:36.970 --> 10:39.138
We're looking at cities
on the West Coast
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that are talking
about $20 an hour.
10:42.709 --> 10:46.613
Banks are sending their
minimum wages at $25 an hour.
10:46.613 --> 10:49.516
Bank of America just
announced that by 2025
10:49.516 --> 10:52.218
they'll be at $25 an hour.
10:52.218 --> 10:55.555
And you know, people
wanna make the argument
10:55.555 --> 10:58.992
that these are low talent jobs
10:58.992 --> 11:01.261
and why should they be required?
11:01.261 --> 11:04.230
And anyone who makes
that statement,
11:04.230 --> 11:07.834
I would challenge them to
throw boxes for eight hours
11:07.834 --> 11:11.404
in a crowded warehouse in
the middle of a pandemic
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and not have childcare
because you can't afford it
11:14.407 --> 11:18.378
on $7.50 or $12.
11:18.378 --> 11:21.080
- I think both of you
have heard this argument
11:21.080 --> 11:24.217
from Reid Dulberger, the
President and CEO of EDGE.
11:24.217 --> 11:27.520
Who says, "We need to
have a wide range of jobs"
11:27.520 --> 11:32.458
"because if we just go after
the higher paying jobs,
11:32.458 --> 11:34.594
"that we're going
to leave people
11:34.594 --> 11:37.330
in the current labor
market in Memphis out."
11:37.330 --> 11:40.466
Commissioner, what
do you say to that?
11:42.168 --> 11:44.571
- You know, I'm doing
better with my language.
11:44.571 --> 11:46.940
So the words that I
would use about that
11:46.940 --> 11:49.642
I'm not going to use Bill.
11:49.642 --> 11:54.614
But I think that it
is a silly argument.
11:55.982 --> 11:59.185
It's one of those arguments
that makes it sound
11:59.185 --> 12:02.455
like you're invested in
something when you're not.
12:02.455 --> 12:05.792
I don't think that
by increasing wages,
12:05.792 --> 12:10.363
certain people aren't
going to be included
12:10.363 --> 12:13.633
because there's often a
profit margin that makes room
12:13.633 --> 12:15.168
for these wages.
12:15.168 --> 12:17.036
The reason that
there's a national push
12:17.036 --> 12:19.272
for $15 an hour, Bill
12:19.272 --> 12:21.074
is because the minimum wage
12:21.074 --> 12:25.478
has not been increased
in generations.
12:25.478 --> 12:29.582
People were still earning
$7.50 as minimum wage
12:29.582 --> 12:31.351
when before I was born.
12:31.351 --> 12:35.588
And you know, I'm
estimating here
12:35.588 --> 12:36.990
because I can't
remember the year,
12:36.990 --> 12:39.125
but it's been a
long time. [laughs]
12:39.125 --> 12:44.130
And you know, just
considering that you know,
12:45.598 --> 12:49.302
the price of what a dollar
is worth from 1982 to now,
12:50.470 --> 12:53.706
a dollar is almost
worth $20 now.
12:53.706 --> 12:55.241
You can't walk into a store
12:55.241 --> 12:58.311
and buy something for
a dollar, pretty much.
12:58.311 --> 13:01.314
And so we haven't changed
minimum wage with,
13:01.314 --> 13:05.184
but we're still requiring
people to live off of the days
13:05.184 --> 13:06.552
when you could get you know,
13:06.552 --> 13:09.088
a loaf of bread and
milk for a dollar.
13:10.289 --> 13:13.092
- Councilman, your
thoughts on this.
13:13.092 --> 13:15.862
Should economic
development incentives
13:15.862 --> 13:20.266
be reserved just for new
sectors in the economy
13:20.266 --> 13:22.368
and for the higher paying jobs?
13:23.770 --> 13:26.272
- On an incentive
standpoint, yes.
13:26.272 --> 13:28.441
I think that there
will always be
13:29.442 --> 13:33.579
a need for lower paying jobs
13:33.579 --> 13:37.617
and they will come to Memphis.
13:37.617 --> 13:40.253
But I just think that the
incentives should be reserved
13:40.253 --> 13:45.258
for those higher wage
industries and companies.
13:47.026 --> 13:49.095
- All right, Eric back to you.
13:52.198 --> 13:53.700
- Well for both of you,
13:53.700 --> 13:55.635
I'll just stay with you
Martavius, Councilman Jones.
13:55.635 --> 13:59.539
The Mississippi factor
comes up a lot, right?
13:59.539 --> 14:01.808
As does even Fayette
County and Arkansas,
14:01.808 --> 14:03.342
but Mississippi is
probably the number one.
14:03.342 --> 14:07.313
In terms of lower wage jobs,
you know warehouse jobs,
14:07.313 --> 14:09.916
which often are a
little bit more involved
14:09.916 --> 14:12.151
than we probably present them.
14:12.151 --> 14:16.055
But the argument is well if we
don't offer these incentives,
14:16.055 --> 14:18.257
if we go too high
on the minimum wage,
14:18.257 --> 14:20.059
if we go too high
on the requirements,
14:20.059 --> 14:22.161
you can just go
across the border
14:22.161 --> 14:25.498
and still have access to
the airport, to FedEx,
14:25.498 --> 14:28.267
to our neighborhoods, to
downtown, to Beale Street,
14:28.267 --> 14:30.336
to the Grizzlies, the Tigers,
14:30.336 --> 14:33.206
I mean all the sort of
amenities that people sell
14:33.206 --> 14:34.974
and that people
who live here love,
14:34.974 --> 14:38.111
you can take advantage of those
by locating in Mississippi
14:38.111 --> 14:40.179
with far fewer restrictions
and requirements
14:40.179 --> 14:43.416
and what the business
people will say
14:43.416 --> 14:46.486
is a much more
streamlined process.
14:46.486 --> 14:48.254
So it's not just
competing against Boston
14:48.254 --> 14:49.422
and these other cities
14:49.422 --> 14:51.190
that Commissioner
Sawyer has talked about
14:51.190 --> 14:52.658
where they've done reforms.
14:52.658 --> 14:55.394
Mississippi has not done those
reforms as far as I know.
14:55.394 --> 14:56.896
And so people push back on that
14:56.896 --> 14:57.964
what's your response?
14:59.699 --> 15:01.734
- This goes back to the comment
15:01.734 --> 15:03.436
that Commissioner Sawyer made,
15:03.436 --> 15:06.506
about Memphis having
a self-esteem problem.
15:06.506 --> 15:11.377
If Memphis feels that it needs
to compete with Mississippi,
15:12.478 --> 15:14.514
rural areas, areas
that are not developed,
15:14.514 --> 15:16.015
we have a self-esteem problem.
15:16.015 --> 15:17.049
We have a self-esteem problem
15:17.049 --> 15:18.951
if we think that
that's the case.
15:18.951 --> 15:21.854
From the standpoint
of warehouses,
15:21.854 --> 15:24.357
Memphis does not have hundreds
15:24.357 --> 15:28.027
or even thousands of
parcels of undeveloped land.
15:28.027 --> 15:29.262
That's what you need
15:29.262 --> 15:33.699
for a 3, 4, 500,000
square-foot warehouse.
15:33.699 --> 15:35.501
That's gonna pay jobs that are,
15:36.803 --> 15:39.472
that they feel are
competitive at $13 an hour.
15:39.472 --> 15:43.442
So my thing is when we
talk about those jobs
15:43.442 --> 15:45.945
and the salaries that
they demand or command,
15:47.079 --> 15:49.148
if we fill that we need
to compete with that
15:49.148 --> 15:51.083
I think that we need
somebody else at the helm
15:51.083 --> 15:54.787
who needs a better outlook
and who's more optimistic
15:54.787 --> 15:58.324
about what Memphis can offer.
15:58.324 --> 16:00.560
And we need to be
competing against cities
16:00.560 --> 16:02.662
like Nashville,
Charlotte, Austin,
16:02.662 --> 16:05.598
not DeSoto County,
not Marshall County,
16:05.598 --> 16:08.467
Fayette or Crittenden County.
16:08.467 --> 16:10.336
- Commissioner Sawyer,
I see you nodding again
16:10.336 --> 16:12.872
are you not worried
about that pushback,
16:12.872 --> 16:16.142
the competition with
Mississippi line that
16:16.142 --> 16:18.144
the business
community often uses?
16:18.144 --> 16:20.446
- No you know, I agree again.
16:20.446 --> 16:24.016
It goes back to the
self-esteem issue.
16:24.016 --> 16:27.520
Who are we as a city,
who are we as a state?
16:27.520 --> 16:29.622
There's a lot of things
that Mississippi does
16:29.622 --> 16:31.824
that you know, are we going to,
16:31.824 --> 16:34.994
do we wanna be 50th in
educating our children,
16:34.994 --> 16:38.130
do we wanna be 50th
in our public health?
16:38.130 --> 16:41.767
You know, do we
wanna have a month
16:41.767 --> 16:45.571
of lack of access to clean
water as Jackson has right now,
16:45.571 --> 16:47.707
instead of two
weeks like we had.
16:47.707 --> 16:50.042
You know, we could go on and on.
16:50.042 --> 16:52.678
But I think that again
these are all arguments
16:52.678 --> 16:55.781
that we're pulling
together to not even try.
16:55.781 --> 16:57.984
The biggest issue here Eric is
16:57.984 --> 16:59.986
the time to have
the conversation
16:59.986 --> 17:02.955
and try to do something
different is now.
17:02.955 --> 17:07.159
To say that someone might
choose to go to Southaven
17:07.159 --> 17:09.495
instead of Memphis.
17:09.495 --> 17:11.264
You know, we've seen people try
17:11.264 --> 17:14.834
but even if you
look at the casinos,
17:14.834 --> 17:17.203
everybody thought that
we were gonna have
17:17.203 --> 17:20.439
this huge you know,
second Las Vegas
17:20.439 --> 17:23.276
and it was still too far
from Memphis to prosper
17:23.276 --> 17:24.877
for a long time.
17:24.877 --> 17:27.213
We are still the
center of the Mid-South
17:27.213 --> 17:30.082
and that means something.
17:30.082 --> 17:32.385
- And again, I should
note that last week
17:32.385 --> 17:34.754
we had Reid Dulberger
from the EDGE
17:34.754 --> 17:36.722
as well as Worth Morgan
from the City Council
17:36.722 --> 17:37.657
who's on the other side of this
17:37.657 --> 17:38.891
you can see that at wkno.org.
17:38.891 --> 17:40.559
Or you can download the podcast
17:40.559 --> 17:41.794
wherever you get your podcasts.
17:41.794 --> 17:43.963
So just to balance things out.
17:43.963 --> 17:48.968
On the issue of schools
and the economy,
17:50.436 --> 17:52.972
or excuse me and taxes
and investing in children.
17:52.972 --> 17:54.640
I mean, again the
pushback would be,
17:54.640 --> 17:56.809
I have to play the role
of devil's advocate today
17:56.809 --> 17:59.011
given the way we
structured this.
17:59.011 --> 18:01.314
Would be that the
well, if they are,
18:01.314 --> 18:03.582
if those companies are
moving to DeSoto County,
18:03.582 --> 18:07.019
be they $15 or 13
hour, $10 an hour jobs.
18:07.019 --> 18:08.988
The taxes, the property taxes,
18:08.988 --> 18:11.490
they're going into the
coffers of DeSoto County,
18:11.490 --> 18:13.426
Marshall County, not
into Shelby County,
18:13.426 --> 18:17.229
and so the taxes that pay for
the school system go down,
18:17.229 --> 18:19.865
they aren't, we're
not getting them.
18:19.865 --> 18:21.600
Commissioner your take on that?
18:23.169 --> 18:25.171
- Yes that's a possibility.
18:25.171 --> 18:27.440
You know we've had
that happen before,
18:27.440 --> 18:30.276
where companies have decided
not to come to Memphis
18:30.276 --> 18:31.677
and we weren't doing anything.
18:31.677 --> 18:34.113
You know we weren't
requiring anything.
18:34.113 --> 18:37.350
And so I guess, you know
the other side's argument
18:37.350 --> 18:38.985
is if we do something different
18:38.985 --> 18:41.587
they might definitely
choose not to come.
18:41.587 --> 18:44.924
But we've also seen those
companies go to other places
18:44.924 --> 18:46.792
and then close a year later.
18:46.792 --> 18:50.496
And then, you know my last
point there Eric is that,
18:50.496 --> 18:51.964
[throat clearing]
18:51.964 --> 18:55.234
right now we're doing nothing
and still losing companies
18:55.234 --> 18:58.037
and still losing jobs, you know.
18:58.037 --> 19:00.740
So if we're still gonna
have a short lifespan
19:00.740 --> 19:02.541
with these incentives,
if the, you know
19:02.541 --> 19:04.010
companies are
gonna bounce around
19:04.010 --> 19:06.445
and come here for two,
three years and move on.
19:06.445 --> 19:08.214
Then we should get
what we can from them
19:08.214 --> 19:09.448
for those two or three years.
19:09.448 --> 19:11.050
I just think that again,
19:11.050 --> 19:14.020
these are arguments that are
presented to not try anything.
19:16.322 --> 19:18.491
- Councilman Jones,
we mentioned ServiceMaster.
19:18.491 --> 19:20.459
And we talked last week
with Reid Dulberger
19:20.459 --> 19:22.094
about ServiceMaster.
19:22.094 --> 19:23.963
That it is, you know
the headline is that,
19:23.963 --> 19:25.798
"ServiceMaster is
moving to Atlanta."
19:25.798 --> 19:29.969
In fact the bulk of the
employees by his count
19:29.969 --> 19:33.372
is still over a 1,000
employees related to Terminix
19:33.372 --> 19:34.974
are still in Memphis.
19:34.974 --> 19:37.309
And so the PILOT
was built around,
19:37.309 --> 19:39.478
I believe around 800, 850,
19:39.478 --> 19:42.114
somewhere in the
800 range of jobs.
19:42.848 --> 19:45.451
So the headline says one thing
19:45.451 --> 19:46.852
and that's on us in the media.
19:46.852 --> 19:48.320
But the reality is
that they still have
19:48.320 --> 19:50.022
a major presence here.
19:50.022 --> 19:53.392
Are you worried that, and
those are higher paying jobs.
19:53.392 --> 19:56.729
Those are a more, a broader
more professional jobs.
19:56.729 --> 19:58.197
I mean, there's a tremendous.
19:58.197 --> 20:01.267
It is not the low wage jobs
that we've been focused on here.
20:03.102 --> 20:05.871
Are you concerned that
Terminix will move,
20:05.871 --> 20:09.341
and that you know what
happens if they move
20:09.341 --> 20:11.577
or if they want more
incentives to stay?
20:11.577 --> 20:14.180
Those are the high paying
jobs that you talked about.
20:14.180 --> 20:17.216
The ones that we, I think in
your words should be proud of.
20:17.216 --> 20:19.919
How far should we go
as a city, as a community
20:19.919 --> 20:21.721
to keep Terminix in town?
20:21.721 --> 20:26.258
- Well I think that if we're
looking at that prospect
20:26.258 --> 20:28.594
then we have to
respond accordingly.
20:28.594 --> 20:30.262
But going back to my contention,
20:30.262 --> 20:32.465
I think that those,
and I agree with you.
20:32.465 --> 20:36.936
Those are the jobs that we
want to be competitive with.
20:36.936 --> 20:39.371
Now one of the things,
one of the other arguments
20:39.371 --> 20:43.142
that's made and I don't
necessarily agree with it
20:43.142 --> 20:45.111
is we're talking
about our workforce
20:45.111 --> 20:47.580
and what the education
level is here.
20:47.580 --> 20:50.282
If we look at other
competitive cities,
20:50.282 --> 20:53.152
Atlanta, Charlotte,
Austin if you would.
20:53.152 --> 20:57.723
I would contend that everyone
who populates those cities
20:57.723 --> 20:59.225
are not natives.
20:59.225 --> 21:01.227
What I feel that
we need to be doing
21:01.227 --> 21:03.195
and what I strive for us to do,
21:03.195 --> 21:05.865
is make Memphis
attractive to companies
21:05.865 --> 21:08.067
that would want
to relocate here.
21:08.067 --> 21:10.803
One of the things, in this
environment right now,
21:10.803 --> 21:13.606
we look at some high tax states
21:13.606 --> 21:16.842
like New York,
Illinois, California.
21:16.842 --> 21:20.312
So if I had my
druthers about me,
21:20.312 --> 21:23.082
we would have
personnel on the ground
21:23.082 --> 21:27.686
recruiting for Memphis in
those areas to bring them here.
21:27.686 --> 21:30.055
That's what I think that
economic development
21:30.055 --> 21:32.158
and incentive need to look like.
21:32.158 --> 21:33.492
If this required of us
21:33.492 --> 21:36.195
to provide more funding
for us to do so,
21:36.195 --> 21:37.396
I'm in agreement with that.
21:37.396 --> 21:38.964
But I don't think
we're doing a good job
21:38.964 --> 21:42.034
of selling ourselves
as an attractive city.
21:42.034 --> 21:43.302
- All right.
21:43.302 --> 21:44.970
- That's the direction
I think we need to move.
21:44.970 --> 21:46.172
- We'll go to Bill.
21:47.540 --> 21:50.609
- Let's talk about the
series of two meetings
21:50.609 --> 21:55.581
that the first one has been
held as we record this.
21:57.049 --> 21:58.651
But Commissioner Sawyer
since we can't talk about
21:58.651 --> 22:00.352
what actually happened
at that meeting,
22:00.352 --> 22:02.454
since we're recording today,
22:02.454 --> 22:05.257
what are your expectations
for the meeting,
22:05.257 --> 22:07.927
what specifically do
you want to come out
22:07.927 --> 22:09.895
of these two joint sessions?
22:11.263 --> 22:13.699
- So we were able to
make requests in advance.
22:13.699 --> 22:15.901
And one of the
requests that we had
22:15.901 --> 22:19.405
was one that we start
from a baseline.
22:19.405 --> 22:24.276
And you know so everyone has
access to the same information.
22:24.276 --> 22:27.279
And so we reviewed
different reports
22:27.279 --> 22:31.317
and you know we're able to
come into this conversation
22:32.685 --> 22:34.186
from a similar standing point.
22:34.186 --> 22:36.789
Even though our
outlook might disagree
22:37.723 --> 22:39.525
and be on different sides.
22:39.525 --> 22:42.261
What I hope that
these two meetings
22:42.261 --> 22:45.431
ended up being is
not a waste of time.
22:45.431 --> 22:47.366
You and I have talked
about it before.
22:47.366 --> 22:49.468
I don't want it to
be PowerPoint mania.
22:49.468 --> 22:53.839
I want us to, what I struggle
with as a County Commissioner
22:53.839 --> 22:55.074
is a lot of talking
22:55.074 --> 22:58.310
and not a lot of action
or change happening.
22:58.310 --> 23:00.179
And so what I hope
that these two meetings
23:00.179 --> 23:03.816
come out with is,
either a game plan
23:03.816 --> 23:06.185
for the County Commission
and City Council to say,
23:06.185 --> 23:09.622
"Here's what we agree on,
here's what we think we can do."
23:09.622 --> 23:14.026
You know, whether it be having
a Community Investment Fund,
23:14.026 --> 23:17.463
or agreeing to setting a
minimum wage, whatever it is,
23:17.463 --> 23:21.000
or investing in
recruitment, you know.
23:21.000 --> 23:22.468
Whatever the case may be.
23:23.836 --> 23:25.170
Something has to come of it.
23:25.170 --> 23:27.606
Otherwise we just spent
the taxpayer's money
23:27.606 --> 23:29.441
for nice lunch and sodas.
23:30.609 --> 23:33.979
- Councilman, your
hopes for these two
23:33.979 --> 23:35.581
very important meetings.
23:36.749 --> 23:38.951
- I'll go back to the
fact that this is a,
23:38.951 --> 23:43.822
EDGE is a function that
was created by the prior
23:43.822 --> 23:46.825
or previous City Councils
and County Commissions.
23:46.825 --> 23:48.827
And it will be I'm coming up,
23:48.827 --> 23:51.930
well I'm in the sixth
year of my term.
23:51.930 --> 23:56.935
And so for us to have this
body and for the elected body
23:57.836 --> 24:00.072
to not review and determine
24:00.072 --> 24:02.007
what should be the
future direction,
24:02.007 --> 24:04.376
I think it will be a dereliction
of our elected duties
24:04.376 --> 24:07.379
in the trust that citizens
of Memphis and Shelby County
24:07.379 --> 24:08.847
have entrusted us with.
24:08.847 --> 24:13.786
So we have to take a look
back and assess and determine
24:13.786 --> 24:17.489
if or not we are satisfied
with the results.
24:17.489 --> 24:19.758
And the whole
definition of insanity
24:19.758 --> 24:21.727
is continue to do the same thing
24:21.727 --> 24:23.429
but expect different results.
24:23.429 --> 24:25.030
We have to look at that.
24:25.030 --> 24:29.335
I am not satisfied with the
result that we have seen
24:29.335 --> 24:31.637
whether it's from
a wage standpoint,
24:31.637 --> 24:35.507
whether it's from an
industry standpoint.
24:35.507 --> 24:39.044
And I think that I don't want
roll off of the City Council
24:40.412 --> 24:42.314
see that going forward,
24:42.314 --> 24:43.549
we're heading in
the same direction
24:43.549 --> 24:45.551
where we've been over
the past 10 years-
24:46.652 --> 24:47.886
- Let me, I'm gonna
say, a minute,
24:47.886 --> 24:49.288
I'm sorry Bill to interrupt you
24:49.288 --> 24:50.723
just with a minute left here.
24:50.723 --> 24:52.257
I wanted to take actually
a bit of a left turn
24:52.257 --> 24:54.393
because we have you
both here and you know,
24:54.393 --> 24:57.363
the topic of the day
and still remains COVID.
24:57.363 --> 24:59.398
And as we you referenced
earlier you know
24:59.398 --> 25:01.166
changes in how the
distribution is happening
25:01.166 --> 25:03.769
it does seem that that
distribution is smoother now,
25:03.769 --> 25:05.904
more people are getting
it and obviously supply
25:05.904 --> 25:07.039
from the federal government
25:07.039 --> 25:08.674
and the manufacturers
is increasing.
25:08.674 --> 25:09.908
And there are some
people out there
25:09.908 --> 25:11.143
who are talking on
a national level
25:11.143 --> 25:12.911
about the whole
situation flipping
25:12.911 --> 25:16.482
where demand will be
the problem not supply.
25:16.482 --> 25:18.016
And I guess I'll go
to you first Tami.
25:18.016 --> 25:21.954
I mean, one of the groups
that has vaccine hesitancy,
25:21.954 --> 25:24.089
hesitancy about the
vaccines on a national level
25:24.089 --> 25:26.125
is black communities.
25:26.125 --> 25:28.193
There's much history to that
we don't have enough time
25:28.193 --> 25:29.661
to get into.
25:29.661 --> 25:32.264
But the horrific history of
experimentation on black people
25:32.264 --> 25:35.834
and people of color and poor
people in this country is real
25:35.834 --> 25:38.604
and present in the hesitancy.
25:38.604 --> 25:41.840
What are you hearing
from your constituents
25:41.840 --> 25:44.777
about their eagerness
or their wariness
25:44.777 --> 25:46.678
of getting the vaccine?
25:48.180 --> 25:50.449
- Just very quickly.
25:50.449 --> 25:54.820
I think that the hesitancy
has been a bit overstated.
25:54.820 --> 25:57.890
You know, people,
white people in the South
25:57.890 --> 26:01.493
are just as hesitant as
black in the South you know.
26:01.493 --> 26:05.330
- One study was yeah, I
should yeah 40% of Republicans
26:05.330 --> 26:07.733
about nationally don't
wanna get the vaccine
26:07.733 --> 26:09.668
and a big percentage
are hesitant.
26:09.668 --> 26:10.969
Go ahead.
- Thank you.
26:10.969 --> 26:13.472
And so what I'm hearing
from my constituents,
26:13.472 --> 26:16.308
they wanna be
informed, you know.
26:16.308 --> 26:17.810
Some people are waiting to see.
26:17.810 --> 26:19.645
I'm seeing a lot of people
26:19.645 --> 26:21.947
share what their
experiences with the vaccine
26:21.947 --> 26:25.284
and I think people
wanna be healthy.
26:25.284 --> 26:26.752
- Yeah all right.
26:26.752 --> 26:28.320
We're out of time,
I appreciate that.
26:28.320 --> 26:29.755
I appreciate Councilman Jones,
26:29.755 --> 26:31.557
thank you for being here,
Commissioner Sawyer.
26:31.557 --> 26:33.258
That is all the time
we had this week.
26:33.258 --> 26:35.027
Remember you can get
past episodes of the show
26:35.027 --> 26:37.896
at wkno.org, or you can
download the full podcast
26:37.896 --> 26:40.165
of the show wherever
you get your podcasts.
26:40.165 --> 26:41.600
Thanks and we'll
see you next week.
26:41.600 --> 26:44.203
[intense orchestral music]
26:57.516 --> 26:59.518
[acoustic guitar chords]