- (female narrator)
Production funding for

Behind The Headlines

is made possible in part by
the WKNO Production Fund,

the WKNO Endowment Fund,
and by viewers like you.

Thank you.

- One year after the bridge
protests, Memphis 3.0,

Great Streets come downtown.

Those stories and more,
tonight on Behind The Headlines.

[dramatic orchestra music]

I'm Eric Barnes, publisher
of the Memphis Daily News.

Thanks for joining us.

I'm joined tonight by a
round table of journalists,

starting with Toby Sells
from the Memphis Flyer,

thanks for being here again.

- Thank you, Eric.

- (Eric)
Madeline Faber from

High Ground News,
thanks for being here.

- Thanks for having me.

- (Eric)
Bernal Smith from The New

Tri-State Defender.

- Glad to be back.

- (Eric)
And Bill Dries with the

Memphis Daily News.

- So, we'll start, Bill,
it is one year, as I said

at the top of the show,
give or take a year

since the bridge was shut
down as part of a national

set of protests,
tangentially related,

there was a ruling in
Federal court this year

over the so called unauthorized
list or the protestor list,

the people who are being
arguably monitored by the

police department.

Tell us, go back in time
to what that list was about

and what did the federal
judge rule this week?

- Okay, as one of the series
of protests leading up

to the bridge protest last
July, there was a die in protest

on the front lawn of Mayor
Jim Strickland's house.

He signed what's known as
an authorization of agency

that says in effect these
people are trespassers.

If they come on home,
on my front lawn again,

and he left the people
on that list, who were

specifically on that list
up to the police department.

The police department
not only put the names

of those protestors on
that list, they also put it

on the city list that
said you can't go anywhere

in city hall without a
uniformed police officer

by your side.

And it was not just the people
who conducted the die in.

It was some of the people
who had been on the bridge.

It was people who had been
involved in other protests.

Once the city hall list was
made public, there was a lawsuit

That filed in Memphis Federal
Court that said these people

were on the list, put on
the list by the police

because the police had been
conducting illegal surveillance

of them.
- Which goes back to a

consent order from the 70s.

- From 1978 when the police had

a domestic intelligence unit.

So this suit and another
suit over it had been pending

in court, the other
one was settled in June

between those protestors
and the police department.

There's one
that's still pending,

and Judge Jon McCalla

has that lawsuit
in Federal Court.

And he has now said
okay, the four protestors

who were plaintiffs in this
suit, they are dismissed

from it because they
do not have standing.

But the American Civil
Liberties Union of Tennessee

remains as a plaintiff and
the suit will go forward.

- And all this, you know,
it's one year Bernal,

since there were again,
the protests as I said,

around the country.

Officer involved shootings,
there have been at least

one or two, or three here.

There was such an outcry.

Mike Rallings, there was
the huge event, I forgot

the name of the church,
very, very a lot of anger

among the African American
community, among others

at the city government,
at the police about how

people are being treated.

Again, it's amazing
that a year has gone by,

but has anything changed?

Has anything moved in
a different direction?

- You know, it's interesting
when you think about it

that what sort of facilitated
that particular protest

was the shooting of
Philando Castille,

and it was his fiance actually
broadcast it on Facebook,

and you know it was just
a significant outcry.

Ironically, almost a
year later, in that case,

the officer who did the shooting
was essentially exonerated

and let go.

And so as we reflect
back, we don't really,

it's hard to say if
much has really changed

on the national landscape.

It's arguable with
Jeff Sessions leading our

Department of Justice.

- The new Attorney General
under Trump Administration.

- Under Trump Administration
that we've actually

gone backwards to a degree.

And then locally, it's
kind of hard to say.

We did usher in a new Police
Director with Rallings

and the move he
made on the bridge--

- Which seemed in some ways
to satisfy some frustration.

That he had handled the
bridge protest so well.

Some people were critical
that Strickland didn't just

make him the police director
right at the moment,

but he ultimately did and
that did seem from my seat

to kind of calm things down.

- Yeah, I thought it was what
the protestors called for.

At that time, I think they
felt that he was the right guy

and it seems that going
on, that he's done a fairly

good job of continuing
to be in the community

and working with community
groups and protestors

to make sure that there's
an ongoing relationship

between the police department
and folks on the streets.

- Well, you mentioned Jeff
Sessions and I'll go to

Madeline, you've written
about at High Ground,

I think we've all
written about it.

The question of whether
the Federal Government,

the Justice Department
under Jeff Sessions,

the Attorney General should
remain under oversight

by the Federal Government.

I can't remember when this
was put in place but some

time ago, some county
officials would like that

oversight to go aways, others
would like it to continue.

What have you learned?

- Yeah, that's a very
critical thing bouncy around

Shelby County right now.

In 2012, the Memphis Shelby
County Department of Juvenile

and Justice entered into
a memorandum of agreement

with the Department of
Justice saying, admitting that

there was racial disparity
in how youth were sentenced.

Black youth, they got
harsher, longer sentences

for similar crimes
of white youth.

People were not given
proper representation

and because of that, we
had to enter into a federal

agreement under
federal oversight.

In April, Jeff Sessions
dropped a few of the points

of the oversight,
about 17 of them.

But the crucial
ones still remain.

Those being oversight of due
process and detention issues

and Shelby County Mayor
Mark Luttrell wants to

drop those entirely.

So just get the DOJ out of
our business altogether.

The Shelby County Commission,
everyone voted against this,

but Mayor Luttrell says
he's going to veto that

and move forward
with the move anyway.

- Your thoughts on all this.

We've done any number
of shows this year about,

in the last two years
probably, about conversations

about criminal justice reform,
about how the challenging

mandatory minimums,
the history of that,

we've done all kinds of shows.

There's a new operation
safe community out

and of course the
murder rate has spiked.

And yet at the same time,
you've got these issues

at the jail that I think
unrelated to the consent

or that Madeline mentioned.

They lost some kids,
they lost some prisoners,

they had software that wasn't
working in the prison system,

I mean, I don't
know, your take Toby

on what's been going on.

- I think the outcry that
has been going on underneath

the surface I believe is
starting to bubble up.

I think we're starting to see
organization of some folks

around those issues.

You've got Justice
City now, you've got a

Black Lives Matter group that's
really organized and pushing

a lot of things.

A lot of outside
groups coming in.

I think we're gonna start
seeing criminal justice

reform really start
bubbling up to the top.

I know Raumesh Akbari, she's
working on a lot of that

stuff in the state legislature.

So I think we're gonna
see a lot of movement

around some of this stuff.

And it may get uncomfortable
for a little while.

- Right, and some of that
segues to what sounds like,

I think in the news business,
whenever we talk about

marijuana legalization,
we write funny headlines

and we make a joke of it.

And so I'm gonna try not
to do that this time.

The medical marijuana
bill in Arkansas is about

to go in effect.

- (Toby)
Yeah.

- Which for some people
is not just a business,

and it's not just letting
people smoke pot, it is a

form of criminal justice
reform, of taking,

it's a step towards
decriminalizing marijuana

instead of throwing people in
jail for possession or use.

- Right, so on this past
Friday, the Arkansas

medical marijuana
program got underway.

They started, they let
applications for patients,

for potential growers, for
potential dispensaries,

so these people are
going to start to apply

and get approved.

The folks in Arkansas
believe that probably about

20,000 or 40,000 patients
are going to sign up

to get a medical
marijuana ID card

and as soon as the
dispensaries are approved

and they go into business,
they're thinking about

early 2018 is when those
are going to go into effect

in Arkansas.

And how that's going to
effect Memphis I think is

yet unknown, but in a
little bit of research

that I've done so far, you
know, those border areas

and border states that
have medical marijuana

against a state that doesn't.

Those borders get
porous and things happen

and it affects across the
bridge, so we don't know yet.

But to your point, in a
lot of the discussions

that I've had with people.

I've talked with people
who run dispensaries

in California and other places,

and they talk about
Marijuana very soberly.

They don't use all the
funny words that we use

in the headlines.

They talk about how it
helps patients all over

the country with
all their issues.

And so it's a very
different conversation

that I've been having
with folks that have

marijuana than I have
here where there's still

a bit of a stigma.

- Thoughts on any of
all this Bill, in terms

of all this criminal justice,
and you and I have done

all these shows, we've
written about it a lot.

How all these things
come together.

- I think that the major
event that's happened

between the bridge protest
and now is the election

of Donald Trump as
President in November.

That really changed.

We still saw more protests,
but I think where we're at now

is a lot of people who
were new to protesting

in what we saw leading up to
November and after November

up to the inauguration
are now wondering is this

all that there is.

What is beyond the protesting?

How do you get involved
and stay involved and still

live your life on a daily basis?

Because most of the people
who have participated

in this last year of a
pretty dramatic upswing

in protest are
people who have jobs,

are people who have lives
outside of their newly

found political involvement.

And we also have not
seen any change in

police training as a result of
what happened on the bridge.

And the issue's growing--

- That's a priority for
Strickland, because he's trying

to get back to 2,400 police,

that's just been
all in the news.

- And he's been
upfront about that.

So has Rallings, that
they think that the public

needs to be more
educated in how the police

do their jobs, that the
police don't necessarily need

to dramatically change their
tactics in handling protests.

- You bring up the Trump...
I'll turn to you Bernal,

I remember, a year, a
year and a half ago,

so it was pre-election, being at
law school for journalists,

which had a lot of local
journalists in town,

and they brought in a
deputy attorney general

from the Obama administration,
and he talked about

new strategies for policing
and community policing

and it was very much again,
and they were going into

various communities
including Memphis,

I think in Chicago,
places they were invited

to talk about new
strategies in policing,

and what they thought was
very forward thinking.

Then you have an election
and Jeff Sessions is the

new attorney general
and he's kind of back to

law and order and
lock them away.

And I am sure there are people
listening to this show saying

well, the murder rate's up,
violent crime is terrible,

yeah there should be
this kind of old school

lock 'em up approach.

I'm not sure which one's
better but it is a dramatic

shift that a lot of
people didn't expect.

- Yeah it is.

And I think when I look at
the protestors and of course

as a commemoration sort of
what happened on the bridge

last year coming up, there
they, they called for a number

of things that I don't
think has really happened.

One was a sort of cultural
sensitivity training

for police officers
here in Memphis.

And many protestors were
saying hey, we need outside

entities to help connect
police officers with the

community so there's
a greater understanding.

But when you look at sort
of what Jeff Sessions,

the tone and tenor that he
set, it's really, hey we're

gonna go all out to make
sure that we're giving the

stiffest penalties and
that we're having a higher

level of sentencing.

And I think that goes against
everything that Eric Holder

and under President Barack
Obama had put in place

and I think it's also
affecting the tone and tenor

with how local police
departments are dealing with

arrests and how they
relate to the community.

Hopefully that doesn't
happen here in Memphis

'cause I think
we've made progress.

- I was just gonna say as
far as what the protestors

were looking for, we may
get a clearer picture

of that on Sunday, they're
having a reunion of that group.

It's the, Bill, the Memphis
Coalition of Concerned Citizens,

is that the name of the group?

They're getting together
at Tom Lee Park at 4:00 p.m.

and they're gonna have a
number of living newspaper

kind of stuff and skits
and activities down there.

And they'll likely talk
about some of those things.

Hopefully, they'll say,
here's what we asked for,

here's what we have
gotten and didn't get.

And kind of get a
checkup with those folks.

But another thing that
came up during all that was

policing of course, but
also economic opportunities

that they were looking
for in Memphis.

And I'm not sure how far
we've moved the needle

on some of that stuff yet.

- Well, and I'll segue a
little bit to you Madeline,

you've written a lot and High
Ground's written a lot about

the transformation about
the South City area.

We did a show last week with
Paul Young, with Marcia Lewis,

Archie Willis about this last
of the big housing projects

in Memphis.

But your take on this
transformation, what's about to

happen, with the backdrop
of, public housing has been

concentration of poverty,
concentration of crime,

and as Toby was just
saying, not a lot of

economic opportunity.

What's happened
in the South City?

- Well I hope that
people keep in mind that

what's going to happen with
South City is a new kind

of federal program, it's
called Choice Neighborhoods

as opposed to Hope VI,
which has gotten a lot of

criticism for not being
accessible to the previous

residents of public housing.

They tear down the housing,
build up nicer, better housing,

but then also put in place
all these restrictions

that make it very difficult
for the former residents

to move in, so they don't
really reap the benefit.

Choice Neighborhoods has
again those same restrictions

but they're designed
in cooperation with the

former residents.

So they have a say in the
kind of people they want

living as their neighbors.

So I hope that that will make
this project more accessible

than previous renovations
of public house have been.

- Yeah, and South City I
should say is basically

to the southeast of FedEx
Forum, the Foote Homes.

I always mess these
names up, and I got--

- Foote Homes and Cleaborn
Pointe and areas beyond that

that are not within
the footprint of either

of those developments.

- It goes to Main,
Crump, Walnut, and... yeah.

- And all that demolition,
most of the people

have been moved out, that
demolition starts based

on what we talked about,

which was a fascinating
conversation, not for anything

I did, but for Paul Young
whose father had grown up,

and Paul Young is the Head of
Housing & Community Development.

His father had grown up in
Foote Homes, Marcia Lewis,

and they just talked
about how do you break the

cycle of poverty, how do
you break the cycle of what

was meant to be housing to
get people on the right track

and became for a lot of
people as Paul Young said,

the kind of warehousing
of the poor.

And so thoughts on
where that goes in terms

of this last, will they do
this one better than the

10 or 11 other housing
projects they've transformed.

- Well, Memphis has certainly
been on a foreground if you

will of the transformation
of what we've known to be

housing projects historically.

But I think in this particular
instance, you still have

the disruptiveness of having
to get people to move out

and then they're
placed somewhere

in the Memphis community.

And then potentially
moving back.

And I think those kind
of things are unlikely

to have people to make
those kinds of moves.

So I think the transition is
difficult although I think

the spirit of what they're
trying to accomplish I think

is there, but the actual
carrying out of it I think

is still a very difficult task.

- When we talk about
transformation, uh, Memphis 3.0,

which is the city's plan to
come up with a plan for Memphis.

It hasn't had a comprehensive
city strategic plan

in many decades.

There have been community
meetings, a couple of rounds

of that, you were partly hosting
one, Bernal at the Brooks,

at Midtown recently that
I went to just as a citizen.

Your thoughts on that process.

I'll get everybody's thoughts
but I'll start with you.

We're about a year into,
eight months to a year

into Memphis 3.0.

- Just about a year and
they've done a lot of research.

They've done a decent job
of I think of engaging

the community, I think
that can be better in terms

of really trying to
communicate a wider section

of the community to be
engaged in this process.

It's been since 1981,
since we've even attempted

a real strategic plan
for the Memphis community

and I think, so
certainly we're overdue.

But when you look at some
of the preliminary results

that they find, some of the
findings and some of the

input from the community,
it's really telling about

where we are as a community
and certainly where we

need to go and that's
what that last discussion

was really about.

- And some of this stuff is
on the Memphis 3.0 website.

But they talked a lot
about population shifts,

it's a stagnant population
in Memphis and through

annexation, a very big
footprint that that needs

to be you know, that's
a tough one to adjust.

But Memphis 3.0, sometimes
it's get real esoteric.

What are we talking
about, what's the plan?

It's really about
transportation.

It's about where
investments should be made.

What kind of neighborhoods
we should have.

I think you've written
some Madeline, about it.

Your thoughts on Memphis 3.0
give or take a year into it.

- You know, I hope that
people don't succumb to

what we feel as meeting
fatigue about Memphis 3.0.

It's gonna be awhile before
we see some actual change.

Though they have identified
maybe some low hanging fruits,

some you know, short term
projects they could achieve.

I think that the initial
findings from Memphis 3.0

confirms sort of what we
just know living in the city,

that we have a stark
income disparity,

that our employment hubs
are difficult to access

through public transportation.

And that older parts of
the city, older housing,

they're not up to energy
efficient methods.

So that poorer Memphians,
maybe who live in older

parts of the city have
to spend a lot more

on their energy bill.

- Right, and it's
the meeting fatigue.

I mean some of the earlier
meetings I went to.

It is interesting because
you think this is sort

of a lot of talk, a lot of
consultants, a lot of plan,

and then it gets put on a shelf.

But cities who've done it right,

Milwaukee had a plan,
Denver had a plan,

Nashville had a plan.

These plans really do,
if they're done right,

and they bring the
right input in, they get

everybody on board,
community activists on board,

politicians on board to,
not necessarily dramatically

transform the city but
to do some smart things

and put in a multi-
year process in place.

- When you look at one of
the telling components of it,

it said that since 1974, the
population growth of Memphis

has been about 4%
but over that same time,

the land growth of
Memphis was 55%.

So it really tells we've
basically had the same people

just moving from place
to place, as we've built

these new neighborhoods
and made these significant

investments in infrastructure
and utilities and so forth.

So I think it even impacts
this whole discussion

about de-annexation,
because again, the city

and the county
has invested many,

many dollars to
build infrastructure

not for new people
moving to the area,

but for the same people that's
moving from place to place.

- Right, we were talking
before the show trying

to get a fix on that.

That there's this proposal
to de-annex about six areas,

about 10% of the land mass,
city council's not moved

on that, I think there's
still some behind-the-scenes

negotiation with the
neighborhood groups and the city

is my sense--

- Yeah, I think
the administration

at City Hall is still

counting votes to see if
they have seven votes.

There are some council
members who I've talked to

pretty recently who still
have a fundamental problem

with voting to de-annex
any area of Memphis

just on principle
aside from the numbers.

And beyond that, you also
work out how does this work?

Because you don't just
do this overnight,

if it's approved by the council.

There are some financial
considerations.

The city has some kind of
reimbursement that's involved

in this for infrastructure
that's in those areas.

So all of that has
to be worked out.

Meanwhile, there is still
de-annexation legislation

that is ready to go in
Nashville and the legislature

goes back to work in January.

- Yeah, we talk about
investment and I mentioned

at the top, the Great Streets.

And you've written about
this, I think most of us

have touched on it at various
points, but Madeline, what are

the Great, this Great Streets
program that's going on in

downtown, what is it?

- So if y'all haven't
driven downtown in awhile,

you should go check it out.

Peabody Place where it abuts
with South Main has been

transformed into kind of this
interesting way to reimagine

infrastructure in Memphis.

Seeing it more as an amenity
than something that purely

belongs to cars.

So that street is very wide.

They've taken every
other lane or the lanes

on the outside and put in
chairs, tables, outdoor games.

- It's all but European.

(laughing)

It's very striking,
for better or worse.

But it goes, I remember
when they first announced

this Bernal, I think
we talked about this.

You can say these things
are sort of oh it's just

for hipsters or it's
kind of some foundation

funded fantasy, but it's
right across the street

from Service Master
which is real money

and real investment
in downtown Memphis.

And you look at the other
end of downtown with

St. Jude planning billions
of dollars in investment

in the Pinch District
in similar ways I think.

Similar ways, reconnecting
with the street,

not just building parking
lots and getting people

off the street.

This is how a new generation
of people want to live

and it's where they want
to live and work and play,

it's not just a slogan anymore.

So this is real stuff.

- Yeah, I think it's
interesting how they've

laid it out, I mean the
funny thing though, I just

haven't seen many
people engaged.

Maybe we have to sort of
warm up to this new layout.

But they got all these
tables and chairs there

and so I think part of it is
helping our own community.

Sort of reimagining we
engage with one another.

- Well, they've done similar
stuff in the medical district.

I don't know how much you've
written about that Toby,

but it's interesting to drive
through the medical district

and they've put, it's
just much more attractive.

I mean, that was always
kind of a dead zone,

you just drove
through, it was ugly.

Bit by bit they are
aesthetically improving it

and it's a much more pleasant
place to go through at least.

- And the traffic
is a lot slower.

If you've driven through
the medical district,

you see people just
piling through there,

but on Great Streets,
I know I've talked to

some downtown business
owners, and they just said

any criticism they would
have is the administration

didn't get a lot of buy in
from a lot of the business

owners around there.

And one day it just
popped and it was there.

And they were like
well what's this?

And so then they found out
about it and they were like

well this is great,
but you know,

if you would have
asked me first.

- The community
strategy has to improve

on many of these
projects I think,

just the level of engagement
in terms of talking

to stakeholders I think
has to really improve

all the way around.

'Cause I think it was a
surprise to many in downtown,

many business
owners in that area.

- Right, just a minute
and a half left.

So as, we taped this on
Thursday, as of this week,

Zack Randolph from
the Grizzlies is gone.

Signed a contract
with Sacramento.

I mean, even if you're
not a basketball fan

in the Xs and Os, he really
did embody the new Grizzlies,

the what, seven or eight
year playoff run Grizzlies,

the whole grit and grind era.

Again, as we tape this,
it's likely that Tony Allen

who is part of that same,
who coined the phrase

grit and grind will
likely be gone.

Thoughts on it,

not from a basketball
point of view, but just as a

hometown team point of view.

- I think it really
reinforces the notion that

basketball is a business.

So as much as we get
ingrained into these players

and we ingratiate them, and
we love them, we understand

at some point, he's far
along in his career,

he's got a two year
$24 million deal.

- (Eric)
Right.

- I mean how can
you argue with that?

I mean, so we love
Z-Bo but I understand

that it's time to go.

- Bill, thoughts?

- We're still waiting to see
what shakes out with this but

this is I think the
death of grit and grind,

for some other type of
style of play and branding,

which has been emerging.

- The Warriors forced that into
being, gotta get that addressed.

- (Eric)
High scoring, yeah, right.

Toby, thoughts?

- I'm just going to miss Tony
Allen and the airport man,

that's it, you know.

(laughing)

- Madeline?

- (Madeline)
We're gonna miss him.

- We're gonna miss him.

Okay.

Well, that is about all
the time we have this week.

Thank you all for
being here, thank you.

And thank you for joining us,
join us again next week.

[dramatic orchestra music]