1 00:00:01,335 --> 00:00:02,870 - [Announcer] Production funding for Behind The Headlines 2 00:00:02,870 --> 00:00:05,005 is made possible in part by 3 00:00:05,005 --> 00:00:09,309 the WKNO Production Fund, the WKNO Endowment Fund, 4 00:00:09,309 --> 00:00:11,345 and by viewers like you. 5 00:00:11,345 --> 00:00:12,179 Thank you. 6 00:00:13,380 --> 00:00:14,882 - The City Hall's surveillance list, 7 00:00:14,882 --> 00:00:17,351 news from the legislature, and much more 8 00:00:17,351 --> 00:00:19,419 tonight on Behind The Headlines. 9 00:00:19,419 --> 00:00:21,822 (bold music) 10 00:00:36,436 --> 00:00:38,472 I'm Eric Barnes, publisher of the Memphis Daily News, 11 00:00:38,472 --> 00:00:39,740 thanks for joining us. 12 00:00:39,740 --> 00:00:41,508 I'm joined tonight by Bernal Smith, 13 00:00:41,508 --> 00:00:43,143 new Tri-State Defender, thanks for being here again. 14 00:00:43,143 --> 00:00:44,411 - Glad to be back. 15 00:00:44,411 --> 00:00:45,679 - And Bill Dries, senior reporter 16 00:00:45,679 --> 00:00:47,447 with the Memphis Daily News. 17 00:00:47,447 --> 00:00:49,082 Once again, we're doing a round table, 18 00:00:49,082 --> 00:00:50,884 there's been a whole lot going on here in Memphis 19 00:00:50,884 --> 00:00:53,687 and here up in Nashville, I spent three days or so 20 00:00:53,687 --> 00:00:55,188 up at the legislature, but we'll start 21 00:00:55,188 --> 00:00:58,025 with what people are calling, Bill, a surveillance list, 22 00:00:58,025 --> 00:01:00,961 a black list, what is this list 23 00:01:00,961 --> 00:01:04,898 of some 80 people who are being monitored 24 00:01:04,898 --> 00:01:07,000 when they go in City Hall, there's a lot of confusion, 25 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,036 there's a lawsuit now, walk us through what's going on. 26 00:01:09,036 --> 00:01:13,206 - Alright, there is a list at City Hall of 81 people 27 00:01:15,409 --> 00:01:20,013 who, if they come to City Hall for any reason, 28 00:01:20,013 --> 00:01:21,481 the police look at that list, 29 00:01:21,481 --> 00:01:23,650 the police who are at the entrance to City Hall, 30 00:01:23,650 --> 00:01:25,686 and if your name is on that list, 31 00:01:25,686 --> 00:01:28,121 then you cannot go anywhere in City Hall 32 00:01:28,121 --> 00:01:32,693 without a uniformed police officer escorting you. 33 00:01:32,693 --> 00:01:37,130 The commercial appeal filed an open records request 34 00:01:37,130 --> 00:01:39,967 to get the list after several of us 35 00:01:39,967 --> 00:01:42,903 had heard from some folks who have been involved 36 00:01:42,903 --> 00:01:46,306 in the demonstrations we've had over the last year, 37 00:01:46,306 --> 00:01:48,842 that this was happening. 38 00:01:48,842 --> 00:01:51,511 And all those people who were talking to us 39 00:01:51,511 --> 00:01:53,714 were on the list. 40 00:01:53,714 --> 00:01:55,015 Some of the people on the list 41 00:01:55,015 --> 00:01:56,950 appeared to have been on there 42 00:01:56,950 --> 00:02:00,988 for legitimate security reasons for quite some time, 43 00:02:03,757 --> 00:02:06,827 but most of the people on that list 44 00:02:06,827 --> 00:02:10,097 seem to have been involved in the demonstrations 45 00:02:10,097 --> 00:02:12,966 that we've had in the last year or so 46 00:02:12,966 --> 00:02:16,169 around various causes, from Black Lives Matter 47 00:02:16,169 --> 00:02:17,704 to the Greensward. 48 00:02:17,704 --> 00:02:19,072 - [Bernal] The Fight for 15. 49 00:02:19,072 --> 00:02:21,942 - Right, even to the people who were involved 50 00:02:21,942 --> 00:02:24,511 in the Valero pipeline protest, 51 00:02:25,846 --> 00:02:28,682 14 people who were involved in that protest, 52 00:02:28,682 --> 00:02:31,385 the day after the protest, the Memphis police 53 00:02:31,385 --> 00:02:33,887 added their name to the City Hall list. 54 00:02:33,887 --> 00:02:35,422 - And Bernal, you said the Fight for 15, 55 00:02:35,422 --> 00:02:37,824 which was the $15 minimum wage, 56 00:02:37,824 --> 00:02:39,292 people who were protesting and 57 00:02:39,292 --> 00:02:40,694 trying to raise some issues about that, 58 00:02:40,694 --> 00:02:41,928 some of them ended up. 59 00:02:41,928 --> 00:02:43,864 - Yeah, some of them ended up on the list. 60 00:02:43,864 --> 00:02:47,401 Folks that ended up that were in front of Graceland. 61 00:02:47,401 --> 00:02:50,737 Folks that showed up at the mayor's house 62 00:02:50,737 --> 00:02:53,306 at the beginning of the year. 63 00:02:53,306 --> 00:02:56,343 I mean, the interesting thing that they'd discovered 64 00:02:56,343 --> 00:02:59,112 that the city of Memphis purchased 65 00:02:59,112 --> 00:03:02,549 a piece of software for about $10,000 66 00:03:02,549 --> 00:03:05,285 that is literally sort of tracked 67 00:03:05,285 --> 00:03:09,656 many of these individual's social media postings. 68 00:03:09,656 --> 00:03:13,660 That is in violation of a, I think a 1978 order, 69 00:03:15,095 --> 00:03:18,932 which basically prohibited sort of tracking people 70 00:03:20,333 --> 00:03:24,438 for political reasons, and then retaliating against them. 71 00:03:24,438 --> 00:03:28,008 And so the suit, I think, is relative to 72 00:03:28,008 --> 00:03:30,510 sort of that tracking and retaliation. 73 00:03:30,510 --> 00:03:33,013 - And the suit is filed in federal court. 74 00:03:33,013 --> 00:03:34,281 - [Bill] Right. 75 00:03:34,281 --> 00:03:35,215 - And it goes back that there's this violation. 76 00:03:35,215 --> 00:03:38,018 You covered the 1978 as a child, 77 00:03:38,018 --> 00:03:39,753 (laughing) 78 00:03:39,753 --> 00:03:43,223 You covered the 1978, tell us the back story of that, 79 00:03:43,223 --> 00:03:44,825 because clearly, there was no social media back then, 80 00:03:44,825 --> 00:03:46,560 there was tracking of a different kind, 81 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,295 and why that consent order is, what, 82 00:03:48,295 --> 00:03:50,397 40 years later still in place. 83 00:03:50,397 --> 00:03:52,432 - Right, this is all moving pretty fast. 84 00:03:52,432 --> 00:03:55,268 The lawsuit for the immediate list 85 00:03:56,703 --> 00:04:00,474 was filed on Wednesday in Memphis federal court. 86 00:04:01,675 --> 00:04:04,644 Alright, it alleges that with this list 87 00:04:04,644 --> 00:04:06,480 and the surveillance that it's alleged 88 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,050 the police department has done on these protesters, 89 00:04:10,050 --> 00:04:13,987 that it violates a 1978 consent decree 90 00:04:13,987 --> 00:04:15,722 in Memphis federal court. 91 00:04:15,722 --> 00:04:19,059 The consent decree was over a unit of the police department 92 00:04:19,059 --> 00:04:22,395 known as the Domestic Intelligence Unit, 93 00:04:22,395 --> 00:04:26,566 that had existed at least during the protests of the 1960s. 94 00:04:28,034 --> 00:04:32,472 In the mid 1970s, a former university of Memphis student 95 00:04:32,472 --> 00:04:34,641 named Eric Carter, who had been involved 96 00:04:34,641 --> 00:04:36,943 in some Vietnam War protests here, 97 00:04:36,943 --> 00:04:40,580 went to the police department, as a lot of people did 98 00:04:40,580 --> 00:04:43,216 during the Watergate era, and the revelations 99 00:04:43,216 --> 00:04:46,186 that the FBI had been spying on a lot of people, 100 00:04:46,186 --> 00:04:48,054 Carter went to the police department and said 101 00:04:48,054 --> 00:04:51,525 if you have a file on me, I want to see it. 102 00:04:51,525 --> 00:04:56,029 The police department said you're not going to get the file. 103 00:04:56,029 --> 00:04:58,899 That precipitated the lawsuit in federal court, 104 00:04:58,899 --> 00:05:01,568 and the consent decree that the police department 105 00:05:01,568 --> 00:05:03,870 agreed to, which said in effect that 106 00:05:03,870 --> 00:05:06,640 it would not video tape, surveil, 107 00:05:07,841 --> 00:05:11,378 or in any other way track the movements 108 00:05:11,378 --> 00:05:15,549 of anyone in Memphis engaged in political activism, 109 00:05:18,318 --> 00:05:20,020 in anything like that. 110 00:05:20,020 --> 00:05:21,821 The police department signed off on that, 111 00:05:21,821 --> 00:05:24,157 the allegation in the lawsuit. 112 00:05:24,157 --> 00:05:25,926 The attorney on the lawsuit, by the way, 113 00:05:25,926 --> 00:05:29,062 is Bruce Kramer, who was one of the attorneys 114 00:05:29,062 --> 00:05:33,066 who sued the city in 1978 and actually signed 115 00:05:33,066 --> 00:05:34,501 the consent decree. 116 00:05:34,501 --> 00:05:35,669 - [Eric] Right. 117 00:05:35,669 --> 00:05:37,070 - And the allegation in the lawsuit 118 00:05:37,070 --> 00:05:39,539 is that the city has violated that consent decree 119 00:05:39,539 --> 00:05:40,941 which is still in effect. 120 00:05:40,941 --> 00:05:44,177 - And part of what's, forgetting the legalities of this, 121 00:05:44,177 --> 00:05:45,779 there's also the confusion. 122 00:05:45,779 --> 00:05:48,148 You've got Strickland saying, and I'm paraphrasing here 123 00:05:48,148 --> 00:05:50,684 and I didn't bring my notes on this part of it, 124 00:05:50,684 --> 00:05:53,687 that he signed part of the list, 125 00:05:53,687 --> 00:05:56,857 signed part of it after there was the die in protest 126 00:05:56,857 --> 00:06:01,261 on his home, at his property, which he was very annoyed by, 127 00:06:01,261 --> 00:06:03,530 and frustrated by, but also there's, 128 00:06:03,530 --> 00:06:05,398 so that's one part, there's this confusion, 129 00:06:05,398 --> 00:06:06,233 who's on the list? 130 00:06:06,233 --> 00:06:07,500 Yeah, help me, Bill. 131 00:06:07,500 --> 00:06:10,937 - Actually, to be specific about it, 132 00:06:10,937 --> 00:06:13,673 Mayor Strickland signed four separate lists 133 00:06:13,673 --> 00:06:17,244 that were what is called an authorization, 134 00:06:17,244 --> 00:06:20,013 and it was I don't want these people 135 00:06:20,013 --> 00:06:23,783 on my property, and his property in that case 136 00:06:23,783 --> 00:06:25,485 was his home. 137 00:06:25,485 --> 00:06:26,686 - [Eric] Okay. 138 00:06:26,686 --> 00:06:28,688 - Now, there were about 30 names on the list 139 00:06:28,688 --> 00:06:31,424 there were, at the most, about a dozen people 140 00:06:31,424 --> 00:06:35,328 involved in the die in on the front lawn of his house, 141 00:06:35,328 --> 00:06:37,998 and he says some were looking in the window, too. 142 00:06:37,998 --> 00:06:40,634 He says that the police department, 143 00:06:40,634 --> 00:06:41,901 he went to the police department and said look, 144 00:06:41,901 --> 00:06:43,136 I know what you're talking about now 145 00:06:43,136 --> 00:06:45,238 in terms of maybe beefing up security. 146 00:06:45,238 --> 00:06:46,406 They said great. 147 00:06:46,406 --> 00:06:48,408 Do this authorization on your property 148 00:06:48,408 --> 00:06:51,611 that says these people can't trespass at your home. 149 00:06:51,611 --> 00:06:55,015 And he said, okay, you come up with the names on the list, 150 00:06:55,015 --> 00:06:56,383 and I'll sign it. 151 00:06:56,383 --> 00:06:58,585 He signed, they came up with the names, 152 00:06:58,585 --> 00:07:00,787 he signed it, he says he doesn't know 153 00:07:00,787 --> 00:07:02,956 how they came up with all of the names, 154 00:07:02,956 --> 00:07:05,425 and then he says the next thing I know, 155 00:07:05,425 --> 00:07:07,594 this list goes public and I discover 156 00:07:07,594 --> 00:07:10,297 that the people who were on the list for my home 157 00:07:10,297 --> 00:07:12,132 are now on the list for City Hall. 158 00:07:12,132 --> 00:07:13,566 - [Bernal] For City Hall. 159 00:07:13,566 --> 00:07:17,103 - Right, and so all this, there's this murkiness about it, 160 00:07:17,103 --> 00:07:19,472 which I think that's disturbing to people. 161 00:07:19,472 --> 00:07:20,840 Because no one would say, look, 162 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,275 if you've got a person who's got a history 163 00:07:22,275 --> 00:07:23,510 of mental illness, and violence, 164 00:07:23,510 --> 00:07:25,378 and I don't know that any of these people are. 165 00:07:25,378 --> 00:07:26,513 - [Bernal] Right. 166 00:07:26,513 --> 00:07:27,981 - There are appropriate lists for people 167 00:07:27,981 --> 00:07:29,549 who shouldn't be wandering around City Hall alone, right? 168 00:07:29,549 --> 00:07:30,784 - [Bernal] Right, but -- 169 00:07:30,784 --> 00:07:32,452 - But no one's saying these people are -- 170 00:07:32,452 --> 00:07:33,920 - If you look at the list -- 171 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:35,455 - [Eric] Intellectually opposed to you or something. 172 00:07:35,455 --> 00:07:38,525 - These folks have basically done peaceful demonstrations 173 00:07:40,327 --> 00:07:41,561 in most cases. 174 00:07:41,561 --> 00:07:44,364 They haven't shown any propensity for violence 175 00:07:44,364 --> 00:07:48,535 or being overtly mentally disturbed or any kind of way. 176 00:07:50,904 --> 00:07:51,838 - [Eric] Right. 177 00:07:51,838 --> 00:07:54,407 - So how the list was developed, 178 00:07:54,407 --> 00:07:56,276 the information that went into it, 179 00:07:56,276 --> 00:07:58,645 I think there's a lot of questions 180 00:07:58,645 --> 00:08:02,215 that have to be answered, and I think most of them 181 00:08:02,215 --> 00:08:05,251 will probably be answered in a court of law 182 00:08:05,251 --> 00:08:08,588 if this lawsuit continues down the road. 183 00:08:09,689 --> 00:08:12,459 Who actually determined the list? 184 00:08:13,326 --> 00:08:14,260 - [Eric] Right. 185 00:08:14,260 --> 00:08:15,462 - What individuals went into it? 186 00:08:15,462 --> 00:08:17,630 What did the mayor, did the mayor know that? 187 00:08:17,630 --> 00:08:20,233 Outside of the situation at his home. 188 00:08:20,233 --> 00:08:22,035 I can understand someone saying hey, 189 00:08:22,035 --> 00:08:24,104 I want to protect family and my home, 190 00:08:24,104 --> 00:08:26,206 but then when it comes down to public places 191 00:08:26,206 --> 00:08:27,440 such as City Hall, etc. 192 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:28,641 - [Eric] Right. 193 00:08:28,641 --> 00:08:29,909 - Then you cross the line into another space. 194 00:08:29,909 --> 00:08:31,611 - And we're also in this phase, 195 00:08:31,611 --> 00:08:36,049 from really in recent years, for me it's been 196 00:08:36,049 --> 00:08:37,617 the Tea Party movement, which was in part 197 00:08:37,617 --> 00:08:39,753 a reaction to Obamacare and Obama's presidency 198 00:08:39,753 --> 00:08:41,254 then the Black Lives Matter movement, 199 00:08:41,254 --> 00:08:43,189 now we've got protests in favor 200 00:08:43,189 --> 00:08:45,959 of the Affordable Care Act around the country. 201 00:08:45,959 --> 00:08:48,128 Kustoff was in town, David Kustoff, 202 00:08:48,128 --> 00:08:50,096 one of the local U.S. reps was in town. 203 00:08:50,096 --> 00:08:51,831 There were not protestors, but there was the potential 204 00:08:51,831 --> 00:08:53,133 that there would be protestors. 205 00:08:53,133 --> 00:08:55,335 We're in a protest phase in various ways 206 00:08:55,335 --> 00:08:56,569 from different sides. 207 00:08:56,569 --> 00:08:57,737 Protests at the Capitol this week 208 00:08:57,737 --> 00:08:59,739 that very much frustrated certain, 209 00:08:59,739 --> 00:09:01,274 which we'll talk about in a little bit. 210 00:09:01,274 --> 00:09:03,209 So, I guess the rules have to be 211 00:09:03,209 --> 00:09:04,911 a little bit more established I think 212 00:09:04,911 --> 00:09:06,446 is part of the lesson in this. 213 00:09:06,446 --> 00:09:07,714 - [Bernal] Right. 214 00:09:07,714 --> 00:09:09,315 - How you balance safety, security, 215 00:09:09,315 --> 00:09:12,585 we are a country of tremendous, horrific mass shootings 216 00:09:12,585 --> 00:09:13,887 and terrible things happening, 217 00:09:13,887 --> 00:09:15,422 but we're also a country of free speech, 218 00:09:15,422 --> 00:09:17,457 so it's interesting to see people struggle with this. 219 00:09:17,457 --> 00:09:19,559 - But, here's the thing. 220 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,895 Michael Rawlings, who's the police director, 221 00:09:21,895 --> 00:09:26,065 a lot of this falls with him, and what he says happened, 222 00:09:27,567 --> 00:09:31,471 and he's reviewing the list, and he will not say 223 00:09:31,471 --> 00:09:33,773 how people's names were put on the list. 224 00:09:33,773 --> 00:09:36,409 He has denied that the police department 225 00:09:36,409 --> 00:09:40,947 did what has been termed political surveillance, 226 00:09:40,947 --> 00:09:43,349 and I think what we're going to find 227 00:09:43,349 --> 00:09:44,984 is that he's parsing his words there 228 00:09:44,984 --> 00:09:49,155 because he's also said I have an obligation to public safety 229 00:09:50,590 --> 00:09:53,760 and I think in his mind, he's making a distinction 230 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,330 between following people, videotaping them, 231 00:09:58,765 --> 00:10:00,700 for what he defines as public safety 232 00:10:00,700 --> 00:10:02,836 versus for their political views. 233 00:10:02,836 --> 00:10:07,006 Well, the lawsuit, I think is going to point out that 234 00:10:08,775 --> 00:10:12,412 it's a distinction that has no meaning. 235 00:10:12,412 --> 00:10:15,648 - Right, no mayor, and because you have people 236 00:10:15,648 --> 00:10:18,251 like Paul Garner, who has been very clear 237 00:10:18,251 --> 00:10:21,988 about times when he's been followed. 238 00:10:21,988 --> 00:10:24,157 Mix up peace and justice. 239 00:10:24,157 --> 00:10:26,392 You have a number of the other, 240 00:10:26,392 --> 00:10:28,995 and the interesting thing is had it not been 241 00:10:28,995 --> 00:10:30,530 necessarily about race. 242 00:10:30,530 --> 00:10:31,798 - [Eric] Right. 243 00:10:31,798 --> 00:10:33,233 - Which I think was somehow interjected 244 00:10:33,233 --> 00:10:35,768 into this at some point, but it's really been 245 00:10:35,768 --> 00:10:39,205 a number of individuals who have voiced opposition 246 00:10:39,205 --> 00:10:42,876 to a number of things that have gone on in the city. 247 00:10:42,876 --> 00:10:45,044 And particularly have voiced opposition 248 00:10:45,044 --> 00:10:47,947 to this particular mayoral administration, 249 00:10:47,947 --> 00:10:51,918 and I think that's where things begin to get real murky. 250 00:10:51,918 --> 00:10:56,089 - And there is evidence that police have been doing this. 251 00:10:57,857 --> 00:11:01,528 I mean, in following the uptick in protests 252 00:11:01,528 --> 00:11:05,231 in the last year, all of us in new media I think 253 00:11:05,231 --> 00:11:08,434 have been hearing things, so you show up some place 254 00:11:08,434 --> 00:11:10,603 to see if there's a protest there, 255 00:11:10,603 --> 00:11:12,238 and the police are usually there, too 256 00:11:12,238 --> 00:11:13,673 in great numbers. 257 00:11:14,574 --> 00:11:15,408 - [Eric] Right. 258 00:11:15,408 --> 00:11:16,676 - So, you know -- 259 00:11:16,676 --> 00:11:17,477 - Which gets back in part to the software 260 00:11:17,477 --> 00:11:18,144 that Bernal mentioned. 261 00:11:18,144 --> 00:11:19,546 - [Bill] Right. 262 00:11:19,546 --> 00:11:20,813 - It allows, there's nothing illegal about that, 263 00:11:20,813 --> 00:11:22,615 I don't think anyone's, unless it's a violation 264 00:11:22,615 --> 00:11:25,518 of the consent order, but the software in and of itself. 265 00:11:25,518 --> 00:11:26,853 - It takes your public posts, so ... 266 00:11:26,853 --> 00:11:28,121 - Yeah, it's public posts, it's not that, 267 00:11:28,121 --> 00:11:29,856 so in and of itself, the software's not illegal, 268 00:11:29,856 --> 00:11:31,357 there are all kinds, we could buy it 269 00:11:31,357 --> 00:11:32,325 and track people if we wanted to. 270 00:11:32,325 --> 00:11:33,760 - Right. 271 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:34,627 - But, yeah, it may violate the consent rule, 272 00:11:34,627 --> 00:11:36,129 but anyway, back to you. 273 00:11:36,129 --> 00:11:40,667 - But the point is that the phase of protests we're in now 274 00:11:40,667 --> 00:11:44,270 is a phase that is uncomfortable for a lot of people 275 00:11:44,270 --> 00:11:48,007 no matter what side you are on an issue. 276 00:11:48,007 --> 00:11:52,211 But, the right to dissent, the right to state your opinion 277 00:11:52,211 --> 00:11:54,380 even if it's not a popular opinion, 278 00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:55,748 and even if you do it in a way 279 00:11:55,748 --> 00:11:57,817 that may be abrasive, but which you feel 280 00:11:57,817 --> 00:11:59,919 you have to to get attention, 281 00:11:59,919 --> 00:12:03,156 that's different than public safety 282 00:12:03,156 --> 00:12:05,191 and your comfort is not something 283 00:12:05,191 --> 00:12:07,527 that's guaranteed by the Constitution. 284 00:12:07,527 --> 00:12:09,062 - Right, alright, we'll move from there. 285 00:12:09,062 --> 00:12:12,131 I mean, obviously a whole lot to still happen on that. 286 00:12:12,131 --> 00:12:13,399 But, we'll move to Beale Street, 287 00:12:13,399 --> 00:12:15,868 and I'll start with you, Bill. 288 00:12:15,868 --> 00:12:18,438 In council this week, we talked about it last week, 289 00:12:18,438 --> 00:12:20,306 there's again this kind of murkiness 290 00:12:20,306 --> 00:12:22,675 about where we're going with Beale Street, 291 00:12:22,675 --> 00:12:25,111 and who's in charge and why a particular group 292 00:12:25,111 --> 00:12:27,847 was not given the contract to manage Beale, 293 00:12:27,847 --> 00:12:29,649 and some more information came out this week 294 00:12:29,649 --> 00:12:32,719 that I think many people hadn't fully realized. 295 00:12:32,719 --> 00:12:35,788 - The Memphis City Council has had three committee sessions 296 00:12:35,788 --> 00:12:39,392 now in the last two months on Beale Street. 297 00:12:39,392 --> 00:12:42,695 Basically, this started with council members saying 298 00:12:42,695 --> 00:12:46,366 we hear all of these different acronyms and initials 299 00:12:46,366 --> 00:12:49,035 for who is running Beale Street, 300 00:12:50,203 --> 00:12:53,006 and we want to know how that works, 301 00:12:53,006 --> 00:12:56,342 and furthermore, the council wants to know 302 00:12:56,342 --> 00:12:59,445 why the Downtown Memphis Commission is still running 303 00:12:59,445 --> 00:13:02,348 day-to-day affairs on the street 304 00:13:02,348 --> 00:13:05,518 for three years running, when it was supposed to be 305 00:13:05,518 --> 00:13:08,121 about a six month interim assignment. 306 00:13:08,121 --> 00:13:10,256 - As it found a manager, a new manager -- 307 00:13:10,256 --> 00:13:11,257 - [Bill] Right, right. 308 00:13:11,257 --> 00:13:12,525 - And who has been on (mumbles). 309 00:13:12,525 --> 00:13:13,960 - Which was supposed to be the first job 310 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:15,461 for the Beale Street Tourism Development Authority 311 00:13:15,461 --> 00:13:16,729 out of the box. 312 00:13:16,729 --> 00:13:19,332 Along the way, they've also been discussing 313 00:13:19,332 --> 00:13:22,702 why the Tourist Authority decided to 314 00:13:22,702 --> 00:13:26,572 end contract negotiations with 21 Beale Street, 315 00:13:26,572 --> 00:13:29,475 a group of people from Chicago and from Memphis, 316 00:13:29,475 --> 00:13:32,812 Memphians in Chicago, to run the street, 317 00:13:34,180 --> 00:13:36,683 who had emerged as basically the last man standing 318 00:13:36,683 --> 00:13:40,253 among three or four different proposals to do this. 319 00:13:40,253 --> 00:13:44,490 This week, it got real, so to speak, at council 320 00:13:44,490 --> 00:13:47,026 because some issues that had probably 321 00:13:47,026 --> 00:13:50,363 been talked about in the private contract negotiations 322 00:13:50,363 --> 00:13:53,633 were put out right there on the committee table in the open. 323 00:13:53,633 --> 00:13:57,804 One of the principals in 21 Beale had been disbarred some -- 324 00:13:59,672 --> 00:14:01,107 - [Bernal] 28 years ago. - Almost 20 years ago. 325 00:14:01,107 --> 00:14:01,974 - [Bernal] 28 years ago. 326 00:14:01,974 --> 00:14:04,010 - Yeah, 28 years ago. 327 00:14:04,010 --> 00:14:05,878 And the other principal had been an owner 328 00:14:05,878 --> 00:14:09,982 of a Chicago nightclub where there was a stampede 329 00:14:09,982 --> 00:14:14,153 in maybe 10 years ago or so in which 21 people died. 330 00:14:16,756 --> 00:14:20,560 Things that both of these individuals had talked about 331 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,795 very openly and knew were going to come up 332 00:14:22,795 --> 00:14:25,331 in the contract negotiations. 333 00:14:25,331 --> 00:14:28,101 Now, it's kind of all out there before the council 334 00:14:28,101 --> 00:14:30,636 and the council is still talking this over 335 00:14:30,636 --> 00:14:34,474 and Bernal, you were there as a tenant on Beale Street, 336 00:14:34,474 --> 00:14:37,343 new Tri-State Defender has offices 337 00:14:37,343 --> 00:14:42,081 in the Beale Street district, and you as one of 338 00:14:42,081 --> 00:14:44,417 the tenants there, expressed your opinions about it. 339 00:14:44,417 --> 00:14:45,985 - And on this, you are not objective, and that's okay. 340 00:14:45,985 --> 00:14:47,453 - Right. 341 00:14:47,453 --> 00:14:48,054 - But just so we say it and disclose it completely. 342 00:14:48,054 --> 00:14:49,055 - Yeah. 343 00:14:49,055 --> 00:14:50,323 - This is a less objective issue. 344 00:14:50,323 --> 00:14:52,959 - Right, because clearly we've been in the midst, 345 00:14:52,959 --> 00:14:55,561 we've been both in it and of it, 346 00:14:55,561 --> 00:14:57,363 and so in this particular instance 347 00:14:57,363 --> 00:14:58,731 I spoke at the council meeting 348 00:14:58,731 --> 00:15:01,100 from my experience as a tenant, 349 00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:05,171 but also sort of representing a group of tenants, 350 00:15:05,171 --> 00:15:07,740 predominantly African American tenants 351 00:15:07,740 --> 00:15:11,878 who've had a less than favorable experience 352 00:15:11,878 --> 00:15:13,746 not only through this transition, 353 00:15:13,746 --> 00:15:15,982 but through all the various transitions 354 00:15:15,982 --> 00:15:18,584 that have taken place pretty much over the last four years. 355 00:15:18,584 --> 00:15:22,188 From going from Elkington to, and Performa, 356 00:15:23,523 --> 00:15:27,193 to DMC and now with the various changes 357 00:15:27,193 --> 00:15:31,097 with the Tourism Authority, the reality is that 358 00:15:32,498 --> 00:15:36,035 from our perspective, there's been a group of merchants 359 00:15:36,035 --> 00:15:38,271 or tenants, if you will, who've really been 360 00:15:38,271 --> 00:15:40,873 driving this conversation. 361 00:15:40,873 --> 00:15:43,276 And although the Tourism Authority 362 00:15:43,276 --> 00:15:46,045 is supposed to be an independent entity, 363 00:15:46,045 --> 00:15:48,047 they've pretty much as we've seen it 364 00:15:48,047 --> 00:15:49,782 taken their cues from the 365 00:15:49,782 --> 00:15:52,585 Beale Street Merchants Association, 366 00:15:52,585 --> 00:15:53,986 and the Merchants Association 367 00:15:53,986 --> 00:15:56,422 has primarily been driven by those 368 00:15:56,422 --> 00:15:58,691 with the preponderance of businesses 369 00:15:58,691 --> 00:16:01,761 which happen to be largely well-heeled 370 00:16:03,930 --> 00:16:06,599 white business owners on the street. 371 00:16:06,599 --> 00:16:10,369 And so, we just felt like, and I spoke to this 372 00:16:10,369 --> 00:16:14,106 at the council meeting, that the process 373 00:16:14,106 --> 00:16:16,642 has been less than transparent, 374 00:16:16,642 --> 00:16:19,912 it's been less than fair, and the reality is 375 00:16:19,912 --> 00:16:23,883 that there's a disparity between those of us 376 00:16:23,883 --> 00:16:28,454 on the east, predominantly on the east end of the street, 377 00:16:28,454 --> 00:16:29,889 which is where the majority of 378 00:16:29,889 --> 00:16:34,193 the African American tenants on the street are, 379 00:16:34,193 --> 00:16:36,729 and very few of us, you know, I've never been asked 380 00:16:36,729 --> 00:16:38,865 or talked to about being a part 381 00:16:38,865 --> 00:16:41,167 of that Merchants Association. 382 00:16:41,167 --> 00:16:42,635 Don't really know a whole lot about it, 383 00:16:42,635 --> 00:16:46,505 but there are a few of those businesses I represented there. 384 00:16:46,505 --> 00:16:48,975 - Would they say that, well, we're generating 385 00:16:48,975 --> 00:16:50,676 most of the dollars, most of the taxes, 386 00:16:50,676 --> 00:16:52,245 most of the traffic. 387 00:16:52,245 --> 00:16:54,013 I mean, the Tri-State Defender isn't going to 388 00:16:54,013 --> 00:16:55,214 generate a whole lot of traffic. 389 00:16:55,214 --> 00:16:56,582 That's not why you were there, that's -- 390 00:16:56,582 --> 00:16:58,117 - And we're different kind of tenants, 391 00:16:58,117 --> 00:17:01,921 so I may understand why we haven't been invited 392 00:17:01,921 --> 00:17:05,458 to that party, per se, but we still have an interest 393 00:17:05,458 --> 00:17:08,160 in ongoing development of the street, 394 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:09,662 and the other components of this 395 00:17:09,662 --> 00:17:13,399 just relate to support and structure of bills 396 00:17:15,234 --> 00:17:19,338 and just transparency with how you build a street 397 00:17:20,406 --> 00:17:23,542 and build the businesses that are a part 398 00:17:24,510 --> 00:17:25,912 of the fabric of the street. 399 00:17:25,912 --> 00:17:27,980 And a lot of it goes back to the history. 400 00:17:27,980 --> 00:17:31,183 One of the things I vote, when you look at 401 00:17:31,183 --> 00:17:33,219 what Beale Street is quintessentially about 402 00:17:33,219 --> 00:17:35,955 it goes back to the black culture 403 00:17:37,623 --> 00:17:41,060 and experience and music and all those things 404 00:17:41,060 --> 00:17:44,430 that were, at one point, Beale Street was the center 405 00:17:44,430 --> 00:17:47,199 of commerce and social activity 406 00:17:47,199 --> 00:17:48,301 for the African American community. 407 00:17:48,301 --> 00:17:49,568 - [Eric] Right. 408 00:17:49,568 --> 00:17:51,037 - When we couldn't go on Main Street. 409 00:17:51,037 --> 00:17:53,039 When we couldn't go to those other places. 410 00:17:53,039 --> 00:17:55,508 And so to now go back and say, well, 411 00:17:55,508 --> 00:17:59,312 we're going to take that, all that experience, 412 00:18:00,513 --> 00:18:03,449 and exploit it economically and not have 413 00:18:04,317 --> 00:18:06,619 African Americans participating 414 00:18:06,619 --> 00:18:08,621 in that economic opportunity I think 415 00:18:08,621 --> 00:18:11,424 is not a good reflection of anything, 416 00:18:11,424 --> 00:18:13,960 particularly as the city of Memphis is concerned. 417 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,463 - And we should point out that 21 Beale 418 00:18:17,463 --> 00:18:20,633 is an African American partnership, 419 00:18:20,633 --> 00:18:23,369 which is also another element in the discussion 420 00:18:23,369 --> 00:18:26,272 and in fact, 21 Beale in making their proposal 421 00:18:26,272 --> 00:18:30,076 did some focus group studies specifically 422 00:18:30,076 --> 00:18:33,379 on another critical piece of this discussion 423 00:18:33,379 --> 00:18:36,382 and that is that despite the history 424 00:18:37,717 --> 00:18:40,586 of African American commerce, culture, and history, 425 00:18:40,586 --> 00:18:43,689 that is Beale Street's contribution 426 00:18:43,689 --> 00:18:47,860 to the Memphis we know today, the street has a problem. 427 00:18:49,028 --> 00:18:51,130 The nightclubs have a problem drawing 428 00:18:51,130 --> 00:18:54,500 significant numbers of black patrons. 429 00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:56,135 - [Eric] They don't. 430 00:18:56,135 --> 00:18:57,370 - They don't. 431 00:18:57,370 --> 00:18:58,838 - [Eric] Yeah, they don't, they don't. 432 00:18:58,838 --> 00:19:01,273 - I don't think I'm telling any trade secrets there. 433 00:19:01,273 --> 00:19:02,475 - [Bernal] Right. 434 00:19:02,475 --> 00:19:05,444 - I worked on the street for eight years 435 00:19:05,444 --> 00:19:07,646 at a radio station that had its offices 436 00:19:07,646 --> 00:19:10,649 where the new Tri-State Defender is, 437 00:19:11,884 --> 00:19:14,186 and it is a predominantly white crowd, 438 00:19:14,186 --> 00:19:16,856 it is a predominantly out of town tourist crowd. 439 00:19:16,856 --> 00:19:18,357 - Yeah, I mean most of it. 440 00:19:18,357 --> 00:19:21,293 I remember that people forget, I have family come in town, 441 00:19:21,293 --> 00:19:22,628 they say, well how often do you go to Beale Street? 442 00:19:22,628 --> 00:19:23,796 I don't. 443 00:19:23,796 --> 00:19:25,164 And that's, I don't mean anything, 444 00:19:25,164 --> 00:19:26,999 it's just i go to these other places. 445 00:19:26,999 --> 00:19:29,368 It is kind of a tourist area. 446 00:19:29,368 --> 00:19:31,704 Is your point, and then we'll wrap this up, 447 00:19:31,704 --> 00:19:34,006 is it to say that well, we'd like to see 448 00:19:34,006 --> 00:19:37,510 more African American traffic and visiting, 449 00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:41,047 or is it, like what's the angle here? 450 00:19:41,047 --> 00:19:42,214 - I think, well, a couple things. 451 00:19:42,214 --> 00:19:44,784 One is that the city of Memphis 452 00:19:46,252 --> 00:19:48,521 and particularly the city council 453 00:19:48,521 --> 00:19:52,358 move in a way to create, to move barriers from 454 00:19:55,761 --> 00:20:00,032 the opportunity for transparent negotiation. 455 00:20:00,032 --> 00:20:03,602 So, you've got this Tourism Authority 456 00:20:03,602 --> 00:20:05,604 which essentially has not done anything 457 00:20:05,604 --> 00:20:08,407 that it was designed to do in the two years 458 00:20:08,407 --> 00:20:11,043 that it's been there, that needs to go away, 459 00:20:11,043 --> 00:20:12,278 and so that's one of the things. 460 00:20:12,278 --> 00:20:15,548 The other thing is that when you look at 461 00:20:15,548 --> 00:20:17,283 appointing a permanent manager, 462 00:20:17,283 --> 00:20:19,852 then hey, we need to move on that, 463 00:20:19,852 --> 00:20:24,323 and then the last thing is, relative to supporting 464 00:20:24,323 --> 00:20:26,425 the businesses that are on the street, 465 00:20:26,425 --> 00:20:28,727 particularly those of us who essentially 466 00:20:28,727 --> 00:20:31,897 have been sort of, and it's so complex 467 00:20:33,332 --> 00:20:35,367 I won't get into all the details of our situation, 468 00:20:35,367 --> 00:20:36,802 but pretty much most of those businesses 469 00:20:36,802 --> 00:20:38,237 have been the same way. 470 00:20:38,237 --> 00:20:39,705 They haven't participated in the marketing. 471 00:20:39,705 --> 00:20:42,141 They haven't participated in any of the things 472 00:20:42,141 --> 00:20:44,710 that benefits most of the businesses on Beale Street. 473 00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:46,912 And so the goal is to really get to a point 474 00:20:46,912 --> 00:20:49,381 where there's equity on the street. 475 00:20:49,381 --> 00:20:51,884 - And if people joined us late, you are a tenant there. 476 00:20:51,884 --> 00:20:53,285 - [Bernal] Yes. 477 00:20:53,285 --> 00:20:54,420 - And so, you're not objective, you don't have to be. 478 00:20:54,420 --> 00:20:55,588 - Sure, absolutely. 479 00:20:55,588 --> 00:20:57,289 - We disclose that. 480 00:20:57,289 --> 00:20:58,657 We'll move on to the legislature, 481 00:20:58,657 --> 00:20:59,959 and a variety of things are going on there. 482 00:20:59,959 --> 00:21:01,527 I did spend, as I think I mentioned, 483 00:21:01,527 --> 00:21:06,332 three days up there and everything's about the gas tax. 484 00:21:06,332 --> 00:21:08,033 I talked to lobbyists, I talked to legislatures. 485 00:21:08,033 --> 00:21:09,568 You go into talk about one thing, 486 00:21:09,568 --> 00:21:11,370 and inevitably you talk about the gas tax, 487 00:21:11,370 --> 00:21:13,772 or as they like to call it the user fee. 488 00:21:13,772 --> 00:21:15,508 I was at a thing where some joked about that, 489 00:21:15,508 --> 00:21:17,543 it's not a gas tax, it's a user fee. 490 00:21:17,543 --> 00:21:20,312 All this, the sense up there is that 491 00:21:20,312 --> 00:21:23,382 it's still not unlikely, but it's certainly 492 00:21:23,382 --> 00:21:25,518 the governor's plan is going to change, 493 00:21:25,518 --> 00:21:27,820 and you've got people, particularly in the House, 494 00:21:27,820 --> 00:21:30,523 who don't want to vote for what is a tax increase. 495 00:21:30,523 --> 00:21:32,958 Even though, every structure is 496 00:21:32,958 --> 00:21:34,426 it will not be new net revenue. 497 00:21:34,426 --> 00:21:36,996 So, for every new dollar they raise in gas taxes, 498 00:21:36,996 --> 00:21:39,899 they are cutting, and talking about cutting other taxes. 499 00:21:39,899 --> 00:21:41,433 But, there are just, particularly in the House, 500 00:21:41,433 --> 00:21:43,369 a whole lot of people who don't want to vote for, 501 00:21:43,369 --> 00:21:47,072 are afraid to vote for any kind of increase in taxes. 502 00:21:47,072 --> 00:21:50,943 - Clearly, and a lot of those legislators 503 00:21:50,943 --> 00:21:53,445 have run on no new taxes. 504 00:21:53,445 --> 00:21:54,747 - [Eric] Right. 505 00:21:54,747 --> 00:21:57,750 - And particularly those that are in rural areas 506 00:21:57,750 --> 00:22:00,786 where the level of income is not there. 507 00:22:00,786 --> 00:22:04,523 Any incremental increase in the price of gas 508 00:22:04,523 --> 00:22:07,359 potentially has a real impact to families 509 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,663 and so I think they're going to be reluctant 510 00:22:10,663 --> 00:22:13,532 to support that in any significant way 511 00:22:13,532 --> 00:22:15,167 without some changes. 512 00:22:15,167 --> 00:22:16,535 - Also, you bring up the rural, 513 00:22:16,535 --> 00:22:17,736 and there's a lot of talk about, 514 00:22:17,736 --> 00:22:18,737 and we've talked about this on the show, 515 00:22:18,737 --> 00:22:20,439 there is a real divide in this, 516 00:22:20,439 --> 00:22:23,108 it seems fairly obvious, rural versus city. 517 00:22:23,108 --> 00:22:24,310 - [Bernal] Right. 518 00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:25,778 - And the way that the deal is structured 519 00:22:25,778 --> 00:22:30,182 I think 40% of the money that would be local options. 520 00:22:30,182 --> 00:22:31,650 So, Memphis would be able to stay focused 521 00:22:31,650 --> 00:22:33,619 on Lamar Avenue and the distribution corner. 522 00:22:33,619 --> 00:22:36,789 National really wants to focus on that mass transit, etc. 523 00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:38,557 These local areas just aren't going to get that much. 524 00:22:38,557 --> 00:22:39,825 - [Bernal] Right. 525 00:22:39,825 --> 00:22:41,293 - So, if you're a rural legislator, 526 00:22:41,293 --> 00:22:43,195 and you want to be up there, you're not going to get 527 00:22:43,195 --> 00:22:45,231 a whole lot because you don't have the population, 528 00:22:45,231 --> 00:22:46,899 the drivers, the gasoline being sold there. 529 00:22:46,899 --> 00:22:49,902 - You don't have the incentive to really, yeah. 530 00:22:49,902 --> 00:22:51,403 - Yeah, so Bill, I don't know, your thoughts on this, 531 00:22:51,403 --> 00:22:53,472 what you're hearing from here. 532 00:22:53,472 --> 00:22:56,809 - Well, at the outset of this, Bill Haslam said that 533 00:22:56,809 --> 00:23:00,846 what made this the right time to raise the fuel tax, 534 00:23:02,281 --> 00:23:04,750 gasoline and diesel, what made this the right time 535 00:23:04,750 --> 00:23:09,655 was the state's two billion dollar budget surplus. 536 00:23:09,655 --> 00:23:12,224 What's happened to him, and the reason 537 00:23:12,224 --> 00:23:15,761 that I think this is likely to be put off yet again, 538 00:23:15,761 --> 00:23:18,964 probably for next year, the last year of his term, 539 00:23:18,964 --> 00:23:20,466 is that legislators have looked at 540 00:23:20,466 --> 00:23:22,901 that two billion dollar surplus 541 00:23:22,901 --> 00:23:26,538 and they have said this is the exact right time 542 00:23:26,538 --> 00:23:29,608 to use that surplus on infrastructure 543 00:23:31,043 --> 00:23:33,545 as opposed to raising the gas tax. 544 00:23:33,545 --> 00:23:35,080 - Yeah, I mean you've got a lot of legislators 545 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,482 saying hey, why are we going to raise taxes 546 00:23:36,482 --> 00:23:38,183 when we've got a two billion dollar surplus? 547 00:23:38,183 --> 00:23:39,652 - [Bernal] Right. 548 00:23:39,652 --> 00:23:41,453 - I was at an event, Haslam spoke, and he said look, 549 00:23:41,453 --> 00:23:44,356 if you start putting, for one, and it's a thing 550 00:23:44,356 --> 00:23:45,824 that you can't underestimate. 551 00:23:45,824 --> 00:23:48,794 We're one of the only states that doesn't issue debt 552 00:23:48,794 --> 00:23:50,129 for roads and infrastructure. 553 00:23:50,129 --> 00:23:51,497 I think we're one of only three. 554 00:23:51,497 --> 00:23:54,900 We're a zero debt state on that front. 555 00:23:54,900 --> 00:23:56,935 Two, his point, and there were some 556 00:23:56,935 --> 00:23:58,737 college university people in there, 557 00:23:58,737 --> 00:24:01,640 he said if you start pulling roads 558 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,742 and infrastructure and so on out of the general fund 559 00:24:03,742 --> 00:24:06,145 when we have a recession or we have a slower economy, 560 00:24:06,145 --> 00:24:08,847 suddenly you're choosing between roads 561 00:24:08,847 --> 00:24:11,383 and teacher's salaries, university salaries. 562 00:24:11,383 --> 00:24:13,218 You know, in the funding of the state. 563 00:24:13,218 --> 00:24:14,420 And so, he would like to keep it 564 00:24:14,420 --> 00:24:15,888 in different buckets than other people would. 565 00:24:15,888 --> 00:24:17,956 But it's a compelling argument that others make. 566 00:24:17,956 --> 00:24:20,225 Look, you've got two billion dollars in the bank 567 00:24:20,225 --> 00:24:21,961 that is uncommitted. 568 00:24:21,961 --> 00:24:25,464 You can, why do we need to be raising taxes right now? 569 00:24:25,464 --> 00:24:26,699 The other thing was interesting, 570 00:24:26,699 --> 00:24:28,200 he talked about why he brought it up now. 571 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,803 He said, you know, at the end of his term, 572 00:24:30,803 --> 00:24:33,072 he's term limited out, he didn't think, 573 00:24:33,072 --> 00:24:35,040 he said the need is huge, the state is growing, 574 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,876 there's this huge backlog, he doesn't think, didn't think, 575 00:24:37,876 --> 00:24:40,012 that the next governor, whoever it is, 576 00:24:40,012 --> 00:24:41,680 will propose it in their first term 577 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,216 because it's such a controversial thing to raise taxes. 578 00:24:44,216 --> 00:24:46,118 So that we'd be looking at six years 579 00:24:46,118 --> 00:24:48,020 before anything significant would happen. 580 00:24:48,020 --> 00:24:49,021 That was interesting. 581 00:24:49,021 --> 00:24:50,255 He also talked a little bit about 582 00:24:50,255 --> 00:24:51,590 you can sort of get a little of nostalgia, 583 00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:53,492 a little looking back on what it's like. 584 00:24:53,492 --> 00:24:55,094 He talked about how he's met, he thinks, 585 00:24:55,094 --> 00:24:57,730 with all of the unofficial candidates for governor 586 00:24:57,730 --> 00:24:59,965 and it was interesting in that sense. 587 00:24:59,965 --> 00:25:01,900 You or, David Kustoff was in town. 588 00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:04,803 We'll switch real quickly with just a minute left. 589 00:25:04,803 --> 00:25:06,772 What did you hear from David Kustoff? 590 00:25:06,772 --> 00:25:08,640 - We heard that he expects there to be 591 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,809 Medicaid block grants of some kind, 592 00:25:10,809 --> 00:25:13,512 the terms obviously still to be worked out. 593 00:25:13,512 --> 00:25:17,716 He believes that the Republican majorities 594 00:25:17,716 --> 00:25:20,219 have about three to six months 595 00:25:21,653 --> 00:25:25,557 to get on the road what they want to do legislatively. 596 00:25:25,557 --> 00:25:27,893 They have a quick time frame here 597 00:25:27,893 --> 00:25:30,596 in which to go with what they think 598 00:25:30,596 --> 00:25:32,097 took them to Washington. 599 00:25:32,097 --> 00:25:34,666 - Yeah, and I heard a lot about that up in Nashville. 600 00:25:34,666 --> 00:25:36,635 A whole lot of people, some high level people, 601 00:25:36,635 --> 00:25:38,203 saying, you know, Republicans mostly, 602 00:25:38,203 --> 00:25:39,738 careful what you wish for. 603 00:25:39,738 --> 00:25:41,740 They've wanted to overturn Obamacare. 604 00:25:41,740 --> 00:25:45,010 Tennessee never expanded the Medicaid expansion, 605 00:25:45,010 --> 00:25:47,546 but they're, what, 100, 200 thousand. 606 00:25:47,546 --> 00:25:50,048 They're many, many people using Obamacare in Tennessee. 607 00:25:50,048 --> 00:25:52,184 That's a tough thing to take away. 608 00:25:52,184 --> 00:25:55,254 A benefit that they've received. 609 00:25:55,254 --> 00:25:56,488 That is all the time we have. 610 00:25:56,488 --> 00:25:58,157 Thank you, Bill, thank you, Bernal. 611 00:25:58,157 --> 00:25:59,591 Thank you for joining us. 612 00:25:59,591 --> 00:26:02,161 Join us again next week. 613 00:26:02,161 --> 00:26:04,563 (bold music) 614 00:26:24,883 --> 00:26:26,385 (guitar strum)