1 00:00:01,335 --> 00:00:02,469 - [Voiceover] Production funding for Behind the Headlines 2 00:00:02,469 --> 00:00:04,872 is made possible in part by... 3 00:00:04,872 --> 00:00:06,607 - [Voiceover] Yuletide Office Solutions, 4 00:00:06,607 --> 00:00:08,275 locally owned family operated, 5 00:00:08,275 --> 00:00:10,244 offering office supplies and furniture, 6 00:00:10,244 --> 00:00:12,846 office design services, school supplies, and more. 7 00:00:12,846 --> 00:00:14,681 The Yuletide team proudly supports 8 00:00:14,681 --> 00:00:19,686 the Bartlett area Chamber of Commerce and WKNO. 9 00:00:19,953 --> 00:00:21,855 - [Voiceover] The WKNO Production Fund, 10 00:00:21,855 --> 00:00:26,260 the WKNO Endowment Fund, and by viewers like you. 11 00:00:26,260 --> 00:00:27,728 Thank you. 12 00:00:27,728 --> 00:00:29,596 - The priorities and politics of the county commission, 13 00:00:29,596 --> 00:00:31,865 tonight on Behind the Headlines. 14 00:00:31,865 --> 00:00:35,869 (orchestral music) 15 00:00:48,015 --> 00:00:49,783 I'm Eric Barnes, publisher of the Memphis Daily News, 16 00:00:49,783 --> 00:00:51,084 thanks for joining us. 17 00:00:51,084 --> 00:00:52,619 I'm joined tonight by Terry Roland, 18 00:00:52,619 --> 00:00:54,321 chairman of the Shelby County commission. 19 00:00:54,321 --> 00:00:55,522 - Good to see you. 20 00:00:55,522 --> 00:00:56,690 - Absolutely, and Heidi Shafer, 21 00:00:56,690 --> 00:00:57,858 also from the county commission. 22 00:00:57,858 --> 00:00:58,892 Thanks for being back. 23 00:00:58,892 --> 00:01:00,160 - Thanks for having me. 24 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:01,628 - Also Bill Dries, senior reporter 25 00:01:01,628 --> 00:01:03,096 with the Memphis Daily News. 26 00:01:03,096 --> 00:01:04,264 Well, we'll talk through-- 27 00:01:04,264 --> 00:01:06,300 A lot is going on with the commission, 28 00:01:06,300 --> 00:01:07,734 but I want to start with, because it's 29 00:01:07,734 --> 00:01:10,704 maybe emblematic of a conversation 30 00:01:10,704 --> 00:01:13,373 that is going on in the business and political community 31 00:01:13,373 --> 00:01:15,075 throughout Memphis and Shelby County, 32 00:01:15,075 --> 00:01:17,110 and the whole area, which is the combination, 33 00:01:17,110 --> 00:01:20,147 and it involves EDGE, EDGE being the organization, 34 00:01:20,147 --> 00:01:21,949 Economic Development Growth Engine, 35 00:01:21,949 --> 00:01:24,418 that administers PILOTs and other tax incentives, 36 00:01:24,418 --> 00:01:27,521 and a proposal that the mayors came forward with, 37 00:01:27,521 --> 00:01:29,256 city and county, back in the spring, I believe, 38 00:01:29,256 --> 00:01:32,526 to combine the Community Redevelopment Agency into EDGE. 39 00:01:32,526 --> 00:01:34,628 I think you're concerned about that. 40 00:01:34,628 --> 00:01:36,063 - Absolutely. 41 00:01:36,063 --> 00:01:38,598 - Tell me, let's talk about why, maybe I turn to Bill, 42 00:01:38,598 --> 00:01:40,534 what is the Community Redevelopment Agency, 43 00:01:40,534 --> 00:01:42,302 so people understand, it's a very important group, 44 00:01:42,302 --> 00:01:44,304 but it's not one that gets as much play. 45 00:01:44,304 --> 00:01:47,841 - Right, basically, its value is that 46 00:01:47,841 --> 00:01:50,444 it is the agency that primarily deals with 47 00:01:50,444 --> 00:01:53,547 development in the uptown section of Memphis, 48 00:01:53,547 --> 00:01:55,949 as well as the Highland Road development by 49 00:01:55,949 --> 00:01:58,885 the University of Memphis, and so you had 50 00:01:58,885 --> 00:02:02,155 this proposal which I believe first came up on the cityside, 51 00:02:02,155 --> 00:02:03,757 Mayor Wharton was the first to 52 00:02:03,757 --> 00:02:05,359 surface with it over there, 53 00:02:05,359 --> 00:02:07,094 it drew some resistance there, 54 00:02:07,094 --> 00:02:08,662 and now it's drawing resistance 55 00:02:08,662 --> 00:02:10,397 among the commission, as well as some 56 00:02:10,397 --> 00:02:12,199 questions about what this means. 57 00:02:12,199 --> 00:02:14,968 - And it administers the TIFs, not the PILOTs, 58 00:02:14,968 --> 00:02:16,870 attacking increment financing, which we'll get into, 59 00:02:16,870 --> 00:02:20,073 but why are you concerned about this proposal? 60 00:02:20,073 --> 00:02:23,210 - Well, first of all, I mean, A, 61 00:02:23,210 --> 00:02:26,246 the way it was created, I think after 62 00:02:26,246 --> 00:02:30,183 being there for six years and watching it, 63 00:02:30,183 --> 00:02:33,587 it wasn't created right. 64 00:02:33,587 --> 00:02:36,156 What you have now, you have a board 65 00:02:36,156 --> 00:02:38,258 that virtually has no power. 66 00:02:38,258 --> 00:02:41,294 The president, Reid Bulberger, 67 00:02:41,294 --> 00:02:43,797 he doesn't have to report to the board-- 68 00:02:43,797 --> 00:02:44,998 - To the EDGE board. 69 00:02:44,998 --> 00:02:46,166 - To the EDGE board. 70 00:02:46,166 --> 00:02:47,668 He reports to the mayor. 71 00:02:47,668 --> 00:02:50,437 To me, there's no oversight there. 72 00:02:50,437 --> 00:02:52,672 EDGE needs some tweaking. 73 00:02:52,672 --> 00:02:55,075 We cannot unscramble the egg. 74 00:02:55,075 --> 00:02:58,512 EDGE, it is a good tool, but we have to 75 00:02:58,512 --> 00:03:00,247 restructure it in a way, 76 00:03:00,247 --> 00:03:03,016 and what I'm suggesting is that we put 77 00:03:03,016 --> 00:03:06,553 the member of the city council and commission 78 00:03:06,553 --> 00:03:09,589 that are on EDGE, make them voting members, 79 00:03:09,589 --> 00:03:13,393 give the EDGE board the power, 80 00:03:13,393 --> 00:03:17,030 let them hire the president or whatever, 81 00:03:17,030 --> 00:03:19,199 he reports to the EDGE board, 82 00:03:19,199 --> 00:03:21,334 and the EDGE board reports to the city council 83 00:03:21,334 --> 00:03:22,836 and the county commission. 84 00:03:22,836 --> 00:03:24,371 - Would the county commission and the city council 85 00:03:24,371 --> 00:03:26,206 vote on proposals in that? 86 00:03:26,206 --> 00:03:29,076 I mean, would they have formal voting oversight 87 00:03:29,076 --> 00:03:30,610 of the PILOTs and so on? 88 00:03:30,610 --> 00:03:34,548 - Eventually, I mean, evidently, we still do. 89 00:03:34,548 --> 00:03:37,451 And, therefore comes-- 90 00:03:37,451 --> 00:03:41,021 See, I've been to Nashville and Charlotte and Louisville, 91 00:03:41,021 --> 00:03:44,157 and that's why these, 92 00:03:44,157 --> 00:03:47,594 I don't want to say PILOTs, TIFs, 93 00:03:47,594 --> 00:03:50,697 that's how these other cities are beating us to death, 94 00:03:50,697 --> 00:03:52,265 is with TIFs. 95 00:03:52,265 --> 00:03:55,836 And, if you put all your eggs in one cart, 96 00:03:55,836 --> 00:03:58,371 under one domain, you know, 97 00:03:58,371 --> 00:04:02,442 are we really using, reaching our potential? 98 00:04:02,442 --> 00:04:05,112 - Yeah. If you want, Bill do a quick tutorial 99 00:04:05,112 --> 00:04:06,980 on what a TIF is, versus a PILOT. 100 00:04:06,980 --> 00:04:10,317 - Tax Increment Financing is what TIF stands for. 101 00:04:10,317 --> 00:04:12,619 Basically, what you're dealing with in that case 102 00:04:12,619 --> 00:04:16,790 is property tax revenue that is going 103 00:04:16,790 --> 00:04:19,192 to come back into, it, 104 00:04:19,192 --> 00:04:21,495 it amounts to an exchange of that 105 00:04:21,495 --> 00:04:24,698 going into the project to finance the bonds 106 00:04:24,698 --> 00:04:26,733 that are involved for it. 107 00:04:26,733 --> 00:04:28,201 - Is it also sales tax? 108 00:04:28,201 --> 00:04:29,669 That the sales tax that would otherwise go to Nashville 109 00:04:29,669 --> 00:04:31,438 comes back into, 110 00:04:31,438 --> 00:04:33,840 the former head of the budget committee is nodding to me. 111 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:35,275 - Yes. 112 00:04:35,275 --> 00:04:36,643 - Sales tax money that would otherwise go to Nashville 113 00:04:36,643 --> 00:04:37,911 stays in that TIF area. 114 00:04:37,911 --> 00:04:39,780 - Correct, and the reason that it 115 00:04:39,780 --> 00:04:41,481 can have a real benefit is that 116 00:04:41,481 --> 00:04:43,750 instead, when Nashville gets it, 117 00:04:43,750 --> 00:04:45,485 then they spread it out amongst other 118 00:04:45,485 --> 00:04:48,221 counties in the state, 119 00:04:48,221 --> 00:04:50,157 whereas this way, with TIFs, 120 00:04:50,157 --> 00:04:52,192 you're able to keep it for yourself 121 00:04:52,192 --> 00:04:54,661 to rebuild and reinvest in your own community. 122 00:04:54,661 --> 00:04:57,097 And so, I see some real benefits with TIFs. 123 00:04:57,097 --> 00:04:59,199 If you don't mind me backtracking just a little bit, 124 00:04:59,199 --> 00:05:03,970 I really have thought EDGE was a great idea, 125 00:05:03,970 --> 00:05:07,741 and I think it's really advanced us down the road. 126 00:05:07,741 --> 00:05:11,411 Prior to EDGE, when businesses would come 127 00:05:11,411 --> 00:05:13,780 in front of the two legislative bodies 128 00:05:13,780 --> 00:05:17,150 it was, it was kind of a grilling process, 129 00:05:17,150 --> 00:05:21,254 and sometimes, companies started 130 00:05:21,254 --> 00:05:23,757 to redline us, out of doing business with us, 131 00:05:23,757 --> 00:05:25,826 because they didn't want to take the PR hit 132 00:05:25,826 --> 00:05:28,228 of being asked in a public meeting 133 00:05:28,228 --> 00:05:30,897 questions that, you know, 134 00:05:30,897 --> 00:05:33,333 that they weren't ready to disclose, 135 00:05:33,333 --> 00:05:35,735 like some of their private financing and things, 136 00:05:35,735 --> 00:05:38,171 and, of course, then the media would hit it, 137 00:05:38,171 --> 00:05:42,776 you would take the most fraught examples. 138 00:05:42,776 --> 00:05:45,045 So, what EDGE has really done well 139 00:05:45,045 --> 00:05:48,582 is created a streamlined kind of one-stop shop 140 00:05:48,582 --> 00:05:51,184 for when people want to come do business with us, 141 00:05:51,184 --> 00:05:53,053 instead of going to the City Council 142 00:05:53,053 --> 00:05:54,921 and the County Commission, all these different places. 143 00:05:54,921 --> 00:05:57,057 There is a first place for them to go, 144 00:05:57,057 --> 00:06:00,894 corral that, get them to the right places, 145 00:06:00,894 --> 00:06:02,629 and then move forward. 146 00:06:02,629 --> 00:06:04,297 But like with any program, 147 00:06:04,297 --> 00:06:05,599 you know, you start something off, 148 00:06:05,599 --> 00:06:07,200 and you can't always predict exactly 149 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:08,735 how things are going to flow. 150 00:06:08,735 --> 00:06:11,338 There probably do need to be some tweaks. 151 00:06:11,338 --> 00:06:12,739 - Which you would-- For instance. 152 00:06:12,739 --> 00:06:14,908 - For instance, the fact that the city councilman 153 00:06:14,908 --> 00:06:17,844 and the county commissioner have no voting rights 154 00:06:17,844 --> 00:06:19,045 over that at all. 155 00:06:19,045 --> 00:06:20,213 - On that EDGE board. 156 00:06:20,213 --> 00:06:21,514 So, they're really just observers. 157 00:06:21,514 --> 00:06:22,515 - They're just observers, but that is our, 158 00:06:22,515 --> 00:06:24,351 that is our legislative duty. 159 00:06:24,351 --> 00:06:27,587 We're the ones that have full responsibility for it. 160 00:06:27,587 --> 00:06:31,958 - So, to combine CRA, 161 00:06:31,958 --> 00:06:33,994 the Community Redevelopment Agency, 162 00:06:33,994 --> 00:06:36,529 into EDGE, it would have to go to the full county commission 163 00:06:36,529 --> 00:06:37,998 and the full city council. 164 00:06:37,998 --> 00:06:39,833 Long ways from that happening. 165 00:06:39,833 --> 00:06:41,368 If some tweaks happened, 166 00:06:41,368 --> 00:06:43,703 would you be in favor of CRA going under EDGE? 167 00:06:43,703 --> 00:06:45,372 Or, is it too early to say? 168 00:06:45,372 --> 00:06:47,674 - Well, it's not really too early to say, 169 00:06:47,674 --> 00:06:49,843 but at the end of the day, 170 00:06:49,843 --> 00:06:52,145 putting voting members from each body 171 00:06:52,145 --> 00:06:54,848 would go a long way with what I, 172 00:06:54,848 --> 00:06:59,152 settling the oversight issue, and making 173 00:06:59,152 --> 00:07:02,289 the president, for lack of better terms, 174 00:07:02,289 --> 00:07:06,626 responsible to report to the board. 175 00:07:06,626 --> 00:07:09,529 Right now, the board doesn't have any power. 176 00:07:09,529 --> 00:07:10,764 - But do you worry that-- 177 00:07:10,764 --> 00:07:12,966 And, Reid Dulberger's been on the show before, 178 00:07:12,966 --> 00:07:14,534 and other people, and everyone says 179 00:07:14,534 --> 00:07:15,969 about PILOTs and these, 180 00:07:15,969 --> 00:07:18,672 that they are an evil, and people have various degrees 181 00:07:18,672 --> 00:07:20,273 to which they say it is a necessary evil. 182 00:07:20,273 --> 00:07:22,008 Because they're difficult and they're frustrating, 183 00:07:22,008 --> 00:07:23,310 and they're frustrating for taxpayers, 184 00:07:23,310 --> 00:07:24,878 and, all that. 185 00:07:24,878 --> 00:07:26,613 But they are necessary, what people will say, 186 00:07:26,613 --> 00:07:30,483 because the process in Desoto County is so streamlined. 187 00:07:30,483 --> 00:07:32,452 It's a very simple system, 188 00:07:32,452 --> 00:07:35,288 and it really is embodied in one person. 189 00:07:35,288 --> 00:07:36,389 So, the businesses that are looking 190 00:07:36,389 --> 00:07:37,857 to locate or relocate, they can, 191 00:07:37,857 --> 00:07:40,093 the advocates say, they go to this one guy, 192 00:07:40,093 --> 00:07:43,830 and he doles out the incentives, done, signed, it's over. 193 00:07:43,830 --> 00:07:46,399 Versus, this very bureaucratic process that, 194 00:07:46,399 --> 00:07:47,901 as Heidi just said. 195 00:07:47,901 --> 00:07:49,202 So, I'm assume you don't want to go back to that 196 00:07:49,202 --> 00:07:50,570 very bureaucratic process. 197 00:07:50,570 --> 00:07:51,671 - No, no, no, that's what I said about, 198 00:07:51,671 --> 00:07:53,473 you can't unscamble the egg. 199 00:07:53,473 --> 00:07:58,478 But we can implement different levels of oversight 200 00:07:59,212 --> 00:08:03,850 and one of them being a voting member. 201 00:08:03,850 --> 00:08:05,685 But let me say this about PILOTs. 202 00:08:05,685 --> 00:08:08,588 I'm very mixed on PILOTs. 203 00:08:08,588 --> 00:08:11,324 I know sometimes people say they're a necessary evil. 204 00:08:11,324 --> 00:08:13,793 But you got to look at it in a common sense way. 205 00:08:13,793 --> 00:08:15,962 You know, say, for instance, 206 00:08:15,962 --> 00:08:17,263 just give you a good for instance, 207 00:08:17,263 --> 00:08:18,665 say, nine and a half billion dollars, 208 00:08:18,665 --> 00:08:20,367 if you give a PILOT to a company 209 00:08:20,367 --> 00:08:22,068 for nine and a half billion dollars. 210 00:08:22,068 --> 00:08:24,471 Well, that nine and a half million dollars, 211 00:08:24,471 --> 00:08:28,108 the government still needs that funding 212 00:08:28,108 --> 00:08:29,943 to run on, right? 213 00:08:29,943 --> 00:08:32,746 So, the only other way that Shelby County has 214 00:08:32,746 --> 00:08:35,782 to replace that 9.5 that you just gave away 215 00:08:35,782 --> 00:08:37,884 is to put it on the back of the taxpayer 216 00:08:37,884 --> 00:08:39,486 in the form of a property tax. 217 00:08:39,486 --> 00:08:41,087 We got to get away from that. 218 00:08:41,087 --> 00:08:42,856 That's killing Shelby County. 219 00:08:42,856 --> 00:08:44,724 - One more question, and we'll move on from this stuff. 220 00:08:44,724 --> 00:08:47,160 Why are TIFs not used-- 221 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:48,628 I've heard various people say this, 222 00:08:48,628 --> 00:08:49,996 but let's go to you, Heidi. 223 00:08:49,996 --> 00:08:52,432 Why-- All these other cities, as Terry just said, 224 00:08:52,432 --> 00:08:54,868 they use TIFs way more effectively than we do. 225 00:08:54,868 --> 00:08:56,503 Why does Shelby County, Memphis, 226 00:08:56,503 --> 00:08:58,138 why do they, why don't we use TIFs? 227 00:08:58,138 --> 00:08:59,339 - Well, and it's interesting, 228 00:08:59,339 --> 00:09:01,908 so, every commission has a different makeup, 229 00:09:01,908 --> 00:09:04,778 as Mr. Dries will sure testify. 230 00:09:04,778 --> 00:09:06,212 So, when you have new members on, 231 00:09:06,212 --> 00:09:07,514 they have different ideas. 232 00:09:07,514 --> 00:09:09,682 Previous county commissioners have 233 00:09:09,682 --> 00:09:12,752 really just had a bee in their bonnet about TIFs, 234 00:09:12,752 --> 00:09:16,823 under the idea that, we're too poor a community 235 00:09:16,823 --> 00:09:18,792 for TIFs to be successful. 236 00:09:18,792 --> 00:09:20,660 They think that we won't generate 237 00:09:20,660 --> 00:09:23,430 the increment in order to do it, 238 00:09:23,430 --> 00:09:24,964 they think we're too poor a community. 239 00:09:24,964 --> 00:09:28,134 I think that, I think it's worth doing, 240 00:09:28,134 --> 00:09:30,503 worth going into and worth investing. 241 00:09:30,503 --> 00:09:33,072 But you have to do your due diligence on it. 242 00:09:33,072 --> 00:09:34,307 - Yeah, right. 243 00:09:34,307 --> 00:09:35,508 Your take on why, and then we'll move on. 244 00:09:35,508 --> 00:09:37,310 Why we don't use more TIFs. 245 00:09:37,310 --> 00:09:38,711 Is that, do you think that's... 246 00:09:38,711 --> 00:09:41,848 - I think that, in the past, 247 00:09:41,848 --> 00:09:44,184 you've had one person over there in the CRA. 248 00:09:44,184 --> 00:09:46,820 They haven't had any staff. 249 00:09:46,820 --> 00:09:50,356 We've done three TIFs, one of them is the Uptown, 250 00:09:50,356 --> 00:09:53,026 we did one in Millington-- 251 00:09:53,026 --> 00:09:54,360 - [Heidi] One on Highland. 252 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,162 - One on Highland. 253 00:09:56,162 --> 00:09:58,798 Well, there's four, then, because we did Elvis Presley, too. 254 00:09:58,798 --> 00:10:00,099 - OK, OK. 255 00:10:00,099 --> 00:10:01,534 So, it's partly just a staff thing, 256 00:10:01,534 --> 00:10:02,469 and I've read that, too, 257 00:10:02,469 --> 00:10:04,003 that the agency was set up, 258 00:10:04,003 --> 00:10:05,572 but it doesn't have full time staff, and so on and so forth. 259 00:10:05,572 --> 00:10:06,773 OK, let's move on. Bill. 260 00:10:06,773 --> 00:10:10,443 - Let's talk about the county commission 261 00:10:10,443 --> 00:10:12,045 having its own attorney, 262 00:10:12,045 --> 00:10:14,981 which is another hot topic of discussion 263 00:10:14,981 --> 00:10:18,451 between the commission and the administration. 264 00:10:18,451 --> 00:10:22,388 So, to review where we've been on that, 265 00:10:22,388 --> 00:10:25,558 the commission approved doing that. 266 00:10:25,558 --> 00:10:27,660 The mayor vetoed that. 267 00:10:27,660 --> 00:10:30,363 The commission overrode that veto. 268 00:10:30,363 --> 00:10:32,665 Where are we now, Mr. Chairman? 269 00:10:32,665 --> 00:10:36,102 - Well, I'm in talks with the county attorney. 270 00:10:36,102 --> 00:10:39,672 We're going to try to work through this. 271 00:10:39,672 --> 00:10:42,275 If we can't get there, 272 00:10:42,275 --> 00:10:46,379 we might go to court, just ask for a declaratory judgment. 273 00:10:46,379 --> 00:10:48,681 Let me say this. 274 00:10:48,681 --> 00:10:51,651 We played by the rules. 275 00:10:51,651 --> 00:10:53,820 First of all, the only way 276 00:10:53,820 --> 00:10:55,855 we could hire a special counselor, 277 00:10:55,855 --> 00:10:57,490 completely says it in the charter 278 00:10:57,490 --> 00:11:01,094 that we are within our rights to hire a special counsel. 279 00:11:01,094 --> 00:11:04,464 Well, we did that. I did that with a stroke of the pen. 280 00:11:04,464 --> 00:11:06,466 Just to get it started, OK? 281 00:11:06,466 --> 00:11:08,635 But I wanted buy-in from the commissioner. 282 00:11:08,635 --> 00:11:10,069 So, we passed-- 283 00:11:10,069 --> 00:11:12,238 And the county attorney clearly sent me a letter, 284 00:11:12,238 --> 00:11:16,209 saying if he can't write a contract to us, 285 00:11:16,209 --> 00:11:17,644 we pass the resolution. 286 00:11:17,644 --> 00:11:19,612 We passed the resolution. 287 00:11:19,612 --> 00:11:22,749 The mayor vetoed it, we overrode his veto. 288 00:11:22,749 --> 00:11:24,918 Now, if you look at the charter, 289 00:11:24,918 --> 00:11:27,987 and believe me, I'm not thinking of going 290 00:11:27,987 --> 00:11:29,422 in this direction, 291 00:11:29,422 --> 00:11:31,791 but the next step per the charter says 292 00:11:31,791 --> 00:11:34,227 that I write him a letter and give him ten days 293 00:11:34,227 --> 00:11:37,430 or we can start ouster procedures on him. 294 00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:39,532 I don't want to do that. 295 00:11:39,532 --> 00:11:44,337 So, what I'm, if the county attorney and myself 296 00:11:44,337 --> 00:11:47,440 and the commission can't work out something, 297 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,242 I'm sure we'll go to court, 298 00:11:49,242 --> 00:11:51,511 and what we'll do is we'll get a different attorney, 299 00:11:51,511 --> 00:11:54,881 we won't use the one that we're trying to hire, 300 00:11:54,881 --> 00:11:56,749 because that wouldn't be appropriate-- 301 00:11:56,749 --> 00:11:57,850 - Julian Bolton. 302 00:11:57,850 --> 00:11:59,285 - Right, Julian Bolton. 303 00:11:59,285 --> 00:12:01,387 And I'll tell you why we came up with Julian Bolton. 304 00:12:01,387 --> 00:12:03,656 But anyway, if we go, we're going to go 305 00:12:03,656 --> 00:12:07,060 just to ask for a declaratory judgment, 306 00:12:07,060 --> 00:12:10,830 and, of course, I'm going to ask the people that I know, 307 00:12:10,830 --> 00:12:13,333 three people, especially the chairman 308 00:12:13,333 --> 00:12:15,234 of the charter commission 309 00:12:15,234 --> 00:12:17,737 that wrote the charter to come in and tell us 310 00:12:17,737 --> 00:12:19,872 what they meant, 311 00:12:19,872 --> 00:12:22,775 and they meant for us to have council. 312 00:12:22,775 --> 00:12:24,010 - Mm-hmm. 313 00:12:24,010 --> 00:12:25,511 Commissioner Schaffer, your point on this. 314 00:12:25,511 --> 00:12:26,946 - Thank you, yes. 315 00:12:26,946 --> 00:12:29,716 I've been around up at the commission for quite a while 316 00:12:29,716 --> 00:12:32,018 because I was staff for Commissioner Flynn, also, 317 00:12:32,018 --> 00:12:34,020 so I've worked with several different county attorneys, 318 00:12:34,020 --> 00:12:36,856 and the real rub is the legal advice 319 00:12:36,856 --> 00:12:38,758 that we've been getting lately 320 00:12:38,758 --> 00:12:41,494 has been differently interpreted 321 00:12:41,494 --> 00:12:43,696 than any other county attorneys ever 322 00:12:43,696 --> 00:12:47,367 and before, so, the way the charter is structured, 323 00:12:47,367 --> 00:12:49,302 there is a county attorney's office 324 00:12:49,302 --> 00:12:50,603 that's supposed to serve both 325 00:12:50,603 --> 00:12:53,306 the executive and the legislative branches, 326 00:12:53,306 --> 00:12:55,808 and we're co-equal branches of government, right, 327 00:12:55,808 --> 00:12:58,244 but there are supposed to be checks and balances there. 328 00:12:58,244 --> 00:13:00,647 And previous county attorneys have always, 329 00:13:00,647 --> 00:13:03,850 if there are differences between executive and legislative, 330 00:13:03,850 --> 00:13:08,021 they realize they cannot be legal council for both parties. 331 00:13:08,021 --> 00:13:10,089 Right? You can't do that. 332 00:13:10,089 --> 00:13:12,191 So, they would hire outside council. 333 00:13:12,191 --> 00:13:15,161 This county attorney has failed and refused to do so, 334 00:13:15,161 --> 00:13:18,498 and is trying to represent both parties, 335 00:13:18,498 --> 00:13:21,834 and in my view that is an unacceptable conflict of interest. 336 00:13:21,834 --> 00:13:24,804 This is really important. This is Civics 101. 337 00:13:24,804 --> 00:13:27,473 This is the separation of powers. 338 00:13:27,473 --> 00:13:31,844 This is about the commission being the voice of the people. 339 00:13:31,844 --> 00:13:34,347 We've got to keep a balance in there. 340 00:13:34,347 --> 00:13:36,783 The executive branch is trying to reach over 341 00:13:36,783 --> 00:13:40,887 and reach into our powers, and we can't allow that. 342 00:13:40,887 --> 00:13:43,690 - What started this? 343 00:13:43,690 --> 00:13:45,658 What was the issue, or the issues 344 00:13:45,658 --> 00:13:47,560 that you just said, that started this? 345 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:49,862 And I'll start with Heidi, but the same question to you. 346 00:13:49,862 --> 00:13:53,433 - So, for me, it's been over a year's worth 347 00:13:53,433 --> 00:13:56,469 of very questionable legal interpretations. 348 00:13:56,469 --> 00:13:58,204 I'll give you several examples. 349 00:13:58,204 --> 00:14:00,473 One is we were told during budget season 350 00:14:00,473 --> 00:14:03,409 that we had no right to amend the budget, 351 00:14:03,409 --> 00:14:06,979 that all we could do was vote the budget up or down. 352 00:14:06,979 --> 00:14:09,916 It's clearly not said that way in the charter. 353 00:14:09,916 --> 00:14:11,217 Another one that they said-- 354 00:14:11,217 --> 00:14:12,652 - Mr. Roland is agreeing with you. 355 00:14:12,652 --> 00:14:15,488 - Another one that we were told 356 00:14:15,488 --> 00:14:20,493 is that we don't have the right to our own council, 357 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,931 or to hire anybody that we desire. 358 00:14:24,931 --> 00:14:28,701 Another one, this is a small one, 359 00:14:28,701 --> 00:14:30,737 but you know how I am about money, Bill. 360 00:14:30,737 --> 00:14:34,107 The proposal came up in front of us to spend 361 00:14:34,107 --> 00:14:36,876 nearly a penny, over a penny on the tax rate, 362 00:14:36,876 --> 00:14:39,879 1.8 on building a new building to house archives. 363 00:14:39,879 --> 00:14:42,882 When I asked why we were still housing paper 364 00:14:42,882 --> 00:14:47,887 in an era where everyone is housing things digitally, 365 00:14:48,087 --> 00:14:50,523 the response we got from our attorneys is 366 00:14:50,523 --> 00:14:53,126 that it was a state law that required it. 367 00:14:53,126 --> 00:14:56,095 And I pressed him on it, and asked him for the citation. 368 00:14:56,095 --> 00:14:58,064 They said they'd get it to me, never did. 369 00:14:58,064 --> 00:15:00,500 I called Trey Hargutt over at the state, 370 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:02,335 and there is no such law, 371 00:15:02,335 --> 00:15:03,770 and Trey's over at archives, 372 00:15:03,770 --> 00:15:06,506 and there is no such law at all. 373 00:15:06,506 --> 00:15:10,376 So, I object to spending over a penny on the tax rate 374 00:15:10,376 --> 00:15:11,944 to build a building. 375 00:15:11,944 --> 00:15:15,314 But we're getting consistently poor information. 376 00:15:15,314 --> 00:15:16,249 - Let me-- 377 00:15:16,249 --> 00:15:17,049 - Do you agree with all that? 378 00:15:17,049 --> 00:15:18,451 - I agree 100 percent, 379 00:15:18,451 --> 00:15:23,089 and me and Heidi's been together a long time in politics. 380 00:15:23,089 --> 00:15:27,660 Let me tell you, when I, or Heidi, 381 00:15:27,660 --> 00:15:31,597 or one of the other commissioners sends up for a resolution. 382 00:15:31,597 --> 00:15:34,767 Let me give you a good one. 383 00:15:34,767 --> 00:15:37,937 I just told the administrator, 384 00:15:37,937 --> 00:15:40,473 we're trying to, what we're trying to do 385 00:15:40,473 --> 00:15:42,508 is combine two temps' jobs and hire 386 00:15:42,508 --> 00:15:44,944 a full time person for our front desk, 387 00:15:44,944 --> 00:15:48,147 and we're talking about hiring a budget analyst. 388 00:15:48,147 --> 00:15:51,717 So I had him write up a resolution, to leave it blank. 389 00:15:51,717 --> 00:15:56,722 And, the resolution has still to this day 390 00:15:57,023 --> 00:15:59,458 not made it back to me, 391 00:15:59,458 --> 00:16:01,160 - From the county commission. 392 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:01,828 Or the county attorney. 393 00:16:01,828 --> 00:16:02,695 - Attorney. 394 00:16:02,695 --> 00:16:04,063 But, the mayor 395 00:16:04,063 --> 00:16:06,098 gets a copy of it 396 00:16:06,098 --> 00:16:08,234 and he's going all over town showing people. 397 00:16:08,234 --> 00:16:09,669 Now, that's not right. 398 00:16:09,669 --> 00:16:12,205 - Right, and there's an even deeper issue, though, 399 00:16:12,205 --> 00:16:14,774 and this one to me is the really problematic one. 400 00:16:14,774 --> 00:16:17,577 The county attorney threatened our legislative immunity 401 00:16:17,577 --> 00:16:20,012 if we disagree with any of his opinions. 402 00:16:20,012 --> 00:16:23,883 And he's trying to make in my view his opinion 403 00:16:23,883 --> 00:16:25,852 binding on the commission, 404 00:16:25,852 --> 00:16:29,722 so what he's saying is that if we pass a resolution 405 00:16:29,722 --> 00:16:32,725 and his opinion disagrees with what we passed 406 00:16:32,725 --> 00:16:35,127 that we could run the risk of having 407 00:16:35,127 --> 00:16:37,563 our legislative immunity removed 408 00:16:37,563 --> 00:16:40,066 which would mean we'd be open to personal lawsuit. 409 00:16:40,066 --> 00:16:42,301 We even posed the question, 410 00:16:42,301 --> 00:16:44,403 if we got an opinion from 411 00:16:44,403 --> 00:16:47,306 the attorney general of the state of Tennessee, 412 00:16:47,306 --> 00:16:50,476 and he agreed with us, but you agreed the other way, 413 00:16:50,476 --> 00:16:52,912 and he said, no, my opinion rules. 414 00:16:52,912 --> 00:16:55,815 The opinion of an attorney-- 415 00:16:55,815 --> 00:16:59,719 The attorney general of the United States of America, 416 00:16:59,719 --> 00:17:02,588 his opinion is not binding on the Congress. 417 00:17:02,588 --> 00:17:04,757 An opinion of an attorney is never binding 418 00:17:04,757 --> 00:17:06,492 on a legislative body. 419 00:17:06,492 --> 00:17:08,527 And so, these are issues that are, 420 00:17:08,527 --> 00:17:10,763 like I said, it's Civics 101. 421 00:17:10,763 --> 00:17:12,565 They're real issues, though. 422 00:17:12,565 --> 00:17:15,601 - Mr. Chairman, you've talked about working out 423 00:17:15,601 --> 00:17:19,906 a contract deal with the Shelby County attorney's office 424 00:17:19,906 --> 00:17:22,208 between the commission and the attorney's office. 425 00:17:22,208 --> 00:17:26,245 And Mayor Lutro has responded pretty forcefully 426 00:17:26,245 --> 00:17:28,047 in discussions I've had with him, 427 00:17:28,047 --> 00:17:31,083 saying that that may be a contract, 428 00:17:31,083 --> 00:17:34,320 but that contract ultimately comes back to him. 429 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,056 It ultimately winds up with him, 430 00:17:37,056 --> 00:17:39,659 even though you're talking with the county attorney. 431 00:17:39,659 --> 00:17:43,529 Is that accurate, and if that is... 432 00:17:43,529 --> 00:17:47,266 - If that's accurate, and I told him, per the charter, 433 00:17:47,266 --> 00:17:51,137 he's over the contracts. OK? 434 00:17:51,137 --> 00:17:55,141 But as per the charter, I'm over the agenda. 435 00:17:55,141 --> 00:17:58,644 So, if he wants something on the agenda, 436 00:17:58,644 --> 00:18:01,647 he needs to talk about maybe signing this contract. 437 00:18:01,647 --> 00:18:04,450 - And, you know, what this says is that, 438 00:18:04,450 --> 00:18:07,320 an administrator, the mayor is an administrator. 439 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,422 The commission is the county, OK? 440 00:18:09,422 --> 00:18:11,023 The commission makes the laws. 441 00:18:11,023 --> 00:18:13,593 The administrator is taxed with the charter 442 00:18:13,593 --> 00:18:16,062 with executing those laws. 443 00:18:16,062 --> 00:18:18,064 - And so, this is obviously ongoing. 444 00:18:18,064 --> 00:18:20,366 Next step, going to court to get 445 00:18:20,366 --> 00:18:23,970 clarification from a judge on how the charter, 446 00:18:23,970 --> 00:18:26,005 you think it should be interpreted, 447 00:18:26,005 --> 00:18:27,106 and we go from there. 448 00:18:27,106 --> 00:18:28,307 When will that happen, timing wise? 449 00:18:28,307 --> 00:18:30,576 - I'm going to say right after the holidays. 450 00:18:30,576 --> 00:18:31,744 - If we have to. 451 00:18:31,744 --> 00:18:32,645 - If we have to. 452 00:18:32,645 --> 00:18:33,813 - If you can't negotiate it. 453 00:18:33,813 --> 00:18:35,014 - I'm hoping we can still work it out. 454 00:18:35,014 --> 00:18:36,482 - Right. I'm hoping we can work it out. 455 00:18:36,482 --> 00:18:39,652 But, these are, you know, these are very serious issues. 456 00:18:39,652 --> 00:18:43,422 - Yeah, and there are some important concepts involved here. 457 00:18:43,422 --> 00:18:47,360 But, from hearing what you've both said, 458 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:51,297 and from hearing what the mayor has said, 459 00:18:51,297 --> 00:18:54,266 right now there's not a whole lot of agreement 460 00:18:54,266 --> 00:18:56,535 between the two points of view on this. 461 00:18:56,535 --> 00:18:59,238 - But I'm glad you brought that up. 462 00:18:59,238 --> 00:19:02,041 It's not us not willing to work with him. 463 00:19:02,041 --> 00:19:05,277 It's the vice versa. 464 00:19:05,277 --> 00:19:07,013 - And this has been developing for over a year. 465 00:19:07,013 --> 00:19:10,082 We have tried and tried and tried and tried. 466 00:19:10,082 --> 00:19:12,184 And it's becoming worse, not better. 467 00:19:12,184 --> 00:19:15,388 So, it's just one of those things that's natural. 468 00:19:15,388 --> 00:19:17,656 We have an adversarial form of government, right? 469 00:19:17,656 --> 00:19:20,659 - So, one of the, I think you mentioned the budget analyst. 470 00:19:20,659 --> 00:19:24,063 Am I right, that one thing that came up recently is, 471 00:19:24,063 --> 00:19:26,665 that's similar to this is, that there was a surplus. 472 00:19:26,665 --> 00:19:29,035 Good news, a surplus economy, 473 00:19:29,035 --> 00:19:30,836 it was 20, 24 million, I can't quite remember-- 474 00:19:30,836 --> 00:19:32,738 - 22. 475 00:19:32,738 --> 00:19:34,940 - 22, excuse me. 22. 476 00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:36,375 But, it caused a great deal of frustration 477 00:19:36,375 --> 00:19:38,044 for a lot of commissioners, 478 00:19:38,044 --> 00:19:41,047 because, you had cut things, and you had 479 00:19:41,047 --> 00:19:42,348 fought through a budget season, 480 00:19:42,348 --> 00:19:45,051 and then it comes in 20 million dollars ahead. 481 00:19:45,051 --> 00:19:47,353 Is that, and you've talked about wanting 482 00:19:47,353 --> 00:19:48,621 a budget analyst, right, 483 00:19:48,621 --> 00:19:50,122 that works for the commission. 484 00:19:50,122 --> 00:19:51,390 Is that going to move forward, 485 00:19:51,390 --> 00:19:52,958 or is that tied up in the same fight? 486 00:19:52,958 --> 00:19:55,027 - No, well, it kind of is and kind of ain't. 487 00:19:55,027 --> 00:19:56,529 But, let me explain to you. 488 00:19:56,529 --> 00:20:00,299 When they came to us, first time that I've ever seen this, 489 00:20:00,299 --> 00:20:02,868 they came to us in budget season, 490 00:20:02,868 --> 00:20:05,004 said, we've got a six million dollar surplus. 491 00:20:05,004 --> 00:20:07,039 Well, common sense tells me that 492 00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:09,442 if you've got a six million dollar surplus, 493 00:20:09,442 --> 00:20:12,078 then you charged the people too much last year. 494 00:20:12,078 --> 00:20:15,114 So, that's when we started working towards a tax decrease, 495 00:20:15,114 --> 00:20:18,684 which I think is probably one of the most pressing things 496 00:20:18,684 --> 00:20:22,121 to keeping Shleby County vibrant, 497 00:20:22,121 --> 00:20:24,156 and keeping people in this county. 498 00:20:24,156 --> 00:20:27,093 But, what do you think, Heidi? 499 00:20:27,093 --> 00:20:30,796 - You were budget committee chair for many years, 500 00:20:30,796 --> 00:20:32,264 now vice chair. 501 00:20:32,264 --> 00:20:34,867 - Right. So, yeah, I think that that's a real issue, 502 00:20:34,867 --> 00:20:37,436 is with the tax decrease. 503 00:20:37,436 --> 00:20:39,505 Most counties, I've been looking 504 00:20:39,505 --> 00:20:41,607 into best practices of counties, 505 00:20:41,607 --> 00:20:43,676 most counties, the legislative body 506 00:20:43,676 --> 00:20:45,811 has an auditor general, 507 00:20:45,811 --> 00:20:47,880 and also a fiscal adviser, 508 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,218 that works for them, that is a stable staffed office, 509 00:20:52,218 --> 00:20:55,254 that keeps things moving even through 510 00:20:55,254 --> 00:20:57,289 term limited transition. 511 00:20:57,289 --> 00:20:58,858 Remember, this is the first time, 512 00:20:58,858 --> 00:21:00,426 we've only been under term limits 513 00:21:00,426 --> 00:21:01,827 for a short amount of time, 514 00:21:01,827 --> 00:21:03,262 and I'm for term limits. 515 00:21:03,262 --> 00:21:05,531 One of the consequences of term limits, though, 516 00:21:05,531 --> 00:21:08,868 is that you lose that legislative institutional memory, 517 00:21:08,868 --> 00:21:10,269 that's right. 518 00:21:10,269 --> 00:21:12,438 And, so, in order to keep some of those things, 519 00:21:12,438 --> 00:21:14,006 to fill in those holes, 520 00:21:14,006 --> 00:21:17,409 I think the commission has to staff up a little bit 521 00:21:17,409 --> 00:21:20,679 to get good independent advice, 522 00:21:20,679 --> 00:21:22,982 because right now it's all being driven 523 00:21:22,982 --> 00:21:24,483 from the executive branch. 524 00:21:24,483 --> 00:21:27,853 They're hired and fired only by the mayor. 525 00:21:27,853 --> 00:21:29,755 And this isn't personalities, 526 00:21:29,755 --> 00:21:31,690 this is executive versus legislative. 527 00:21:31,690 --> 00:21:33,893 We've got to be a little more independent, 528 00:21:33,893 --> 00:21:35,794 and we're the ones with the fiduciary duty. 529 00:21:35,794 --> 00:21:37,663 - You guys just-- On selling finiancing, 530 00:21:37,663 --> 00:21:40,166 the county commission refinanced, what, 531 00:21:40,166 --> 00:21:41,367 three hundred million dollars. 532 00:21:41,367 --> 00:21:43,202 Is that a scoop and toss kind of thing 533 00:21:43,202 --> 00:21:45,037 that the city got criticized for, 534 00:21:45,037 --> 00:21:47,973 or was that a fiscally sound kind of move 535 00:21:47,973 --> 00:21:49,441 to refinance that? 536 00:21:49,441 --> 00:21:50,676 - Let me answer that one. 537 00:21:50,676 --> 00:21:52,545 We actually weren't given enough information 538 00:21:52,545 --> 00:21:54,446 to really know about it. 539 00:21:54,446 --> 00:21:56,315 And that's, that's really-- 540 00:21:56,315 --> 00:21:59,518 Oh, it's good, we'll give you the short version 541 00:21:59,518 --> 00:22:01,520 is what we're hearing a lot of. 542 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,490 That's what a fiscal advisor would do. 543 00:22:04,490 --> 00:22:06,225 - Because the short answer is that it was refinanced down 544 00:22:06,225 --> 00:22:07,760 to a lower interest rate, that's lower in cost, 545 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,395 which, on the surface, sounds great. 546 00:22:09,395 --> 00:22:11,163 But you still have unanswered questions. 547 00:22:11,163 --> 00:22:13,599 - But, the 2006 bonds that were included in that, 548 00:22:13,599 --> 00:22:16,368 let me make this perfectly clear, 549 00:22:16,368 --> 00:22:20,206 not even one dime had been paid toward the principal 550 00:22:20,206 --> 00:22:22,374 of that 2006 bond. 551 00:22:22,374 --> 00:22:25,010 And I really have a problem with that. 552 00:22:25,010 --> 00:22:28,347 When you haven't paid anything down on that bond, 553 00:22:28,347 --> 00:22:30,883 and you're refinancing already, 554 00:22:30,883 --> 00:22:33,819 because you haven't gained anything. 555 00:22:33,819 --> 00:22:35,020 - Yeah, right. 556 00:22:35,020 --> 00:22:36,188 We've got about four minutes left. Phil. 557 00:22:36,188 --> 00:22:38,224 - Just going back to that for a second, 558 00:22:38,224 --> 00:22:41,660 is there a balloon payment involved, though, further out, 559 00:22:41,660 --> 00:22:45,364 because that was the issue on the city side 560 00:22:45,364 --> 00:22:46,765 with the scoop and toss, 561 00:22:46,765 --> 00:22:49,335 and I didn't hear any mention of a balloon payment-- 562 00:22:49,335 --> 00:22:50,536 - I don't think there is, Bill. 563 00:22:50,536 --> 00:22:52,371 - Fewer years down the road. 564 00:22:52,371 --> 00:22:54,707 - Where does the county's, again, the county's 565 00:22:54,707 --> 00:22:56,542 pension situation? 566 00:22:56,542 --> 00:22:59,311 The county's, I mean, there's been such an emphasis 567 00:22:59,311 --> 00:23:00,746 in the city of Memphis, and other places around the county, 568 00:23:00,746 --> 00:23:04,083 is the county on firm footing in terms of 569 00:23:04,083 --> 00:23:05,784 pension obligations and so on? 570 00:23:05,784 --> 00:23:09,722 - Well, our pension system is pretty well off, 571 00:23:09,722 --> 00:23:12,658 but I'm going to tell you, the big thing 572 00:23:12,658 --> 00:23:14,894 that's hovering over Shelby County 573 00:23:14,894 --> 00:23:18,030 is this 1.2 billion dollar OPEB debt 574 00:23:18,030 --> 00:23:19,498 that the school system has. 575 00:23:19,498 --> 00:23:22,234 - They covered through to the new Shelby County schools, 576 00:23:22,234 --> 00:23:23,669 everything went into that one-- 577 00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:25,938 - Right, and, Commissioner Schaffer 578 00:23:25,938 --> 00:23:27,840 and the rest of the commissioners, 579 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,876 we had Tony Saunders come in, 580 00:23:30,876 --> 00:23:33,312 and Tony Saunders wast he gentleman 581 00:23:33,312 --> 00:23:35,214 that the governor of Michigan 582 00:23:35,214 --> 00:23:39,084 hired and brought in to straighten out Detroit. 583 00:23:39,084 --> 00:23:43,188 He has met with the school systems, 584 00:23:43,188 --> 00:23:46,258 and I think that he's going to work with the school system 585 00:23:46,258 --> 00:23:47,693 to try to get them to-- 586 00:23:47,693 --> 00:23:51,830 And, we're looking into our OPEB in their with it, 587 00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:54,466 because maybe there's some savings there, 588 00:23:54,466 --> 00:23:57,936 if they do the schools and Shelby County's. 589 00:23:57,936 --> 00:24:00,039 So, I'm going to tell you, 590 00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:03,208 that's one of the most important things that's facing us. 591 00:24:03,208 --> 00:24:04,443 - Your thoughts on that? 592 00:24:04,443 --> 00:24:05,611 - Well, I think that that's exactly right, 593 00:24:05,611 --> 00:24:07,346 and OPEB is going to be a bigger-- 594 00:24:07,346 --> 00:24:10,516 And by the way, OPEB is for Other Post-Employment Benefits. 595 00:24:10,516 --> 00:24:12,818 We like to throw around these acronyms. 596 00:24:12,818 --> 00:24:16,322 So, it is going to be very shortly required 597 00:24:16,322 --> 00:24:19,558 that there will be a limited amount of financing. 598 00:24:19,558 --> 00:24:22,361 So, we want to get out in front of that. 599 00:24:22,361 --> 00:24:25,331 There are some discrepancies in the numbers that we've seen 600 00:24:25,331 --> 00:24:28,667 about what our true OPEB liability is, 601 00:24:28,667 --> 00:24:31,870 and the reason I'm looking for an auditor general. 602 00:24:31,870 --> 00:24:33,972 - On the county side or on the school side? 603 00:24:33,972 --> 00:24:37,376 - County side. County side. 604 00:24:37,376 --> 00:24:39,111 And, you know, everyone likes to ride the school system, 605 00:24:39,111 --> 00:24:40,913 I think we need to look at ourselves 606 00:24:40,913 --> 00:24:42,948 as hard as we're looking at the school system. 607 00:24:42,948 --> 00:24:44,616 If we're going to ask the schools about their OPEB, 608 00:24:44,616 --> 00:24:49,088 we have a fiduciary duty to really delve into 609 00:24:49,088 --> 00:24:50,322 our own financing. 610 00:24:50,322 --> 00:24:51,557 We're doing OK. 611 00:24:51,557 --> 00:24:53,092 But, could we be doing better? 612 00:24:53,092 --> 00:24:55,060 Our tax rate is so high 613 00:24:55,060 --> 00:24:57,196 that it is costing businesses right now 614 00:24:57,196 --> 00:24:59,298 33 percent more. 615 00:24:59,298 --> 00:25:00,699 - Right, right, right. 616 00:25:00,699 --> 00:25:02,234 Bill, minute left here. 617 00:25:02,234 --> 00:25:04,503 - It looks like next year, the commission 618 00:25:04,503 --> 00:25:07,906 is going to bring to a head or talk with 619 00:25:07,906 --> 00:25:10,676 the leader of Global Ministries Foundation, 620 00:25:10,676 --> 00:25:15,681 who, I believe, he was supposed to appear this past week 621 00:25:15,914 --> 00:25:18,584 before the committees. 622 00:25:18,584 --> 00:25:23,222 - And he runs a series of housing apartments around town-- 623 00:25:23,222 --> 00:25:26,725 - Right, apartments that involve HUD subsidies. 624 00:25:26,725 --> 00:25:30,662 But, he had representatives there, 625 00:25:30,662 --> 00:25:33,065 but he wasn't there this past-- 626 00:25:33,065 --> 00:25:34,233 - Right. 627 00:25:34,233 --> 00:25:35,367 It was my understanding that he had never 628 00:25:35,367 --> 00:25:37,035 committed to come, 629 00:25:37,035 --> 00:25:39,471 and I did want to just clear that up. 630 00:25:39,471 --> 00:25:41,340 There have been, 631 00:25:41,340 --> 00:25:44,343 you know, this is not an easy situation 632 00:25:44,343 --> 00:25:46,178 when you're talking about housing. 633 00:25:46,178 --> 00:25:48,647 So, it's a hard group of folks to house, 634 00:25:48,647 --> 00:25:50,315 some of them are fourth generation, 635 00:25:50,315 --> 00:25:51,984 being in public housing, 636 00:25:51,984 --> 00:25:54,086 it's very crime infested. 637 00:25:54,086 --> 00:25:56,722 You're not going to solve all the problems. 638 00:25:56,722 --> 00:25:59,258 But I think that one will be a real issue 639 00:25:59,258 --> 00:26:01,226 and will come up soon. 640 00:26:01,226 --> 00:26:02,494 - OK. We'll leave it there. 641 00:26:02,494 --> 00:26:03,429 Sorry to cut you off, we're out of time. 642 00:26:03,429 --> 00:26:04,329 Thank you both for being here. 643 00:26:04,329 --> 00:26:05,230 - Thank y'all for having us. 644 00:26:05,230 --> 00:26:06,031 - Thank you for joining us. 645 00:26:06,031 --> 00:26:08,267 Join us again next week. 646 00:26:08,767 --> 00:26:10,369 - [Voiceover] Yuletide Office Solutions, 647 00:26:10,369 --> 00:26:12,104 locally owned and family operated, 648 00:26:12,104 --> 00:26:13,872 offering office supplies and furniture, 649 00:26:13,872 --> 00:26:16,542 office design services, school supplies, and more. 650 00:26:16,542 --> 00:26:18,377 The Yuletide team proudly supports 651 00:26:18,377 --> 00:26:20,179 the Bartlett area chamber of commerce 652 00:26:20,179 --> 00:26:22,748 and WKNO. 653 00:26:23,515 --> 00:26:27,515 (guitar strum)