WEBVTT 00:01.134 --> 00:02.336  - (female narrator)   Production funding for 00:02.336 --> 00:04.805  Behind the Headlines   is made possible in part by: 00:05.672 --> 00:07.808  The WKNO Production Fund, 00:07.808 --> 00:10.043  the WKNO Endowment Fund, 00:10.043 --> 00:12.145  and by viewers like you.   Thank you. 00:13.213 --> 00:15.115 - Sheriff Floyd Bonner on the jail, 00:15.115 --> 00:17.651 juvenile justice, and more, tonight 00:17.651 --> 00:19.186 on Behind the Headlines. 00:19.186 --> 00:21.521 [dramatic orchestral music] 00:36.236 --> 00:37.371 I'm Eric Barnes, 00:37.371 --> 00:39.473 president and executive editor of The Daily Memphian, 00:39.473 --> 00:40.974 thanks for joining us. 00:40.974 --> 00:42.376 I am joined tonight by Shelby County Sheriff 00:42.376 --> 00:44.311 Floyd Bonner, Jr. Thank you for being here. 00:44.311 --> 00:46.346 - Thank you for having me. 00:46.346 --> 00:47.514 - Along with Bill Dries, 00:47.514 --> 00:49.850 reporter with The Daily Memphian. 00:49.850 --> 00:51.818 - Let's start, you are newly elected, 00:51.818 --> 00:55.355 in this past fall, so been in office three, four months. 00:55.355 --> 00:57.457 There's a lot of conversation right now, 00:57.457 --> 00:59.159 we've done a number of shows about, 00:59.159 --> 01:01.328 or where we touched on the question of juvenile justice 01:01.328 --> 01:05.132 and specifically the juvenile justice center and the 01:05.132 --> 01:09.002 county pondering a million-three investment, 01:09.002 --> 01:12.539 sort of down payment on a new juvenile justice center, 01:12.539 --> 01:15.776 towards ultimately I think about a $25 million project. 01:15.776 --> 01:17.611 Do you think, let's just start there, 01:17.611 --> 01:19.980 do you think the county should put money towards a new 01:19.980 --> 01:22.282 juvenile justice center? 01:22.282 --> 01:24.785 - Well as you know, as sheriff, we run the detention center 01:24.785 --> 01:27.688 there at juvenile court, and I think the last time the 01:27.688 --> 01:30.390 detention center was added on, 01:30.390 --> 01:33.660 or kind of re-done was in the '90s. 01:33.660 --> 01:36.930 So you're talking about a facility that's extremely old, 01:36.930 --> 01:41.401 outdated, we've been talking about building a new justice or 01:41.401 --> 01:44.171 detention center for the juveniles now for about, 01:45.739 --> 01:50.277 three, four, five years. And I think it's come time now 01:50.277 --> 01:52.579 that we really get serious about it. 01:52.579 --> 01:55.182 We hope that the county commission will fund it. 01:55.182 --> 01:57.551 As you know right now, we're talking about, 01:57.551 --> 02:00.354 they're going through the prelim things, 02:00.354 --> 02:03.590 trying to get the architect, but I think it's supposed to 02:03.590 --> 02:06.994 cost around $25 million, so. 02:06.994 --> 02:08.895 - And you all, effectively your office, 02:08.895 --> 02:11.832 the sheriff's office provides what laymen would think of, 02:11.832 --> 02:15.102 the lay person would think of as the guards at the detention 02:15.102 --> 02:16.837 center and juvenile justice, is that correct? 02:16.837 --> 02:18.505 - That's correct, that's correct. 02:18.505 --> 02:19.973 - And about how many people are there, 02:19.973 --> 02:21.341 of your staff? 02:21.341 --> 02:24.111 - About 75. - About 75, ok. 02:24.111 --> 02:27.147 One of the questions is about, the juvenile justice center has 02:27.147 --> 02:30.384 also been under scrutiny, there was Federal oversight, 02:30.384 --> 02:33.186 that has ended since President Trump's administration, 02:33.186 --> 02:35.789 and former Attorney General Jeff Sessions. 02:35.789 --> 02:38.058 Where did you stand on whether oversight, 02:38.058 --> 02:40.627 Federal oversight should continue or end? 02:40.627 --> 02:42.829 - Well I thought it should end. 02:42.829 --> 02:44.798 I mean, we took over juvenile court, 02:44.798 --> 02:48.368 we the sheriff's office, took over juvenile court in 2015, 02:48.368 --> 02:52.773 I think when DOJ actually came into juvenile court was 2012. 02:54.274 --> 02:56.476 So it had been going on, so when the sheriff, 02:56.476 --> 02:59.012 the previous sheriff, Sheriff Oldham, 02:59.012 --> 03:02.149 decided that he would handle the detention for juvenile 03:02.149 --> 03:05.986 court, we came in and we looked at what DOJ was asking, 03:05.986 --> 03:08.555 and then we did everything. 03:08.555 --> 03:12.459 I mean we were at 94% of the things that DOJ was asking us 03:13.693 --> 03:17.531 to do, and the other 6% was because the facility was so old 03:17.531 --> 03:21.001 that we couldn't do things about the facility. 03:21.001 --> 03:25.038 So it kind of rendered us helpless 03:25.038 --> 03:27.541 there in that part of it. - (Eric) Right. 03:27.541 --> 03:31.578 But, I think what we did learn, we learned a lot of things, 03:31.578 --> 03:33.647 we received a lot of training, 03:33.647 --> 03:35.849 our officers received a lot of training. 03:35.849 --> 03:37.818 We had a lot of help from different organizations, 03:37.818 --> 03:40.854 national organizations. 03:40.854 --> 03:44.257 Dr. David Rausch, who was one of the first 03:44.257 --> 03:48.361 DOJ monitors that came in at that time. 03:48.361 --> 03:50.464 We've now, we now, the sheriff's office has hired 03:50.464 --> 03:55.702 Dr. Rausch as a consultant because we want to continue 03:55.702 --> 03:59.706 down the right path. We take it very seriously 03:59.706 --> 04:02.742 and we're going to keep moving forward. 04:02.742 --> 04:05.212 - Before I go to Bill, there was an incident 04:05.212 --> 04:08.248 I believe last week, with... 04:08.248 --> 04:11.685 some kind of incident that resulted in 11 juveniles being 04:11.685 --> 04:14.254 moved after some sort of, I would frame it as an outburst, 04:14.254 --> 04:16.356 but I'll let you frame it as what it was, 04:16.356 --> 04:19.793 there was some damage done in the juvenile detention center, 04:19.793 --> 04:22.796 11 youths were moved to 201 Poplar, 04:22.796 --> 04:25.432 the adult jail, and two of your, 04:25.432 --> 04:27.768 I think it was two of your offiers, 04:27.768 --> 04:30.637 were suspended in some form or fashion. 04:30.637 --> 04:32.806 Tell me what happened last week. 04:32.806 --> 04:35.075 - Well last week we had a disturbance down at juvenile 04:35.075 --> 04:38.945 court, something that never occurred since we'd been there. 04:38.945 --> 04:43.383 I was asked that the other day, I've never known it to happen, 04:43.383 --> 04:45.485 but we had a disturbance down there. 04:45.485 --> 04:49.556 About 14, 15 youth were involved in that disturbance. 04:49.556 --> 04:51.858 No officers were hurt. 04:51.858 --> 04:55.395 We had two juveniles that had non-life-threatening injuries, 04:57.631 --> 05:01.601 we took eleven of them down to 201. 05:01.601 --> 05:05.105 Now, what many people don't know is that we've housed 05:05.105 --> 05:08.375 juveniles at 201 before, in the past, 05:09.576 --> 05:14.181 we do have an area there that we can put them in that meets 05:14.181 --> 05:18.251 the sight-and-sound requirements that the DOJ 05:18.251 --> 05:20.987 requires, so right now we've moved them down there, 05:20.987 --> 05:23.890 and as you said, it was about $3,000, 05:23.890 --> 05:27.427 $3,500-$5,000 worth of damage, there was some glass breakage, 05:27.427 --> 05:29.496 a TV was broken. 05:30.931 --> 05:33.567 And we're repairing that, as a matter of fact, 05:33.567 --> 05:35.969 everything, juvenile court is back up and running. 05:35.969 --> 05:39.539 Until we get the glass, some of the windows repaired, 05:39.539 --> 05:43.610 we expect to move the juveniles back to the facility on Friday 05:43.610 --> 05:45.612 as a matter of fact. 05:45.612 --> 05:47.847 - But, and I misquoted, was it five officers 05:47.847 --> 05:49.316 that were suspended? 05:49.316 --> 05:51.418 - It was five, yes. - Suspended for what reason? 05:51.418 --> 05:54.221 - They were relieved of duty with pay. 05:54.221 --> 05:55.589 - And are they still? 05:55.589 --> 05:58.858 - And they still are, right now it's under investigation. 05:59.826 --> 06:01.862 We're looking into some things that happend down there. 06:02.729 --> 06:06.132 Failures that we think that occurred right now, 06:07.334 --> 06:09.436 so it's still kind of under investigation, 06:09.436 --> 06:12.606 we're looking into what caused the fight, 06:12.606 --> 06:15.408 what was going on, what the officers were doing, 06:15.408 --> 06:18.345 just the whole entire situation. 06:18.345 --> 06:20.280 - You said two juveniles were injured, 06:20.280 --> 06:22.115 taken to hospital, or? 06:22.115 --> 06:26.286 - They were seen by the medical staff there at juvenile court. 06:27.220 --> 06:28.688 - Juveniles injuring each other, 06:28.688 --> 06:30.290 or injured by sheriff's deputies? 06:30.290 --> 06:32.359 - Each other, yes sir. 06:32.359 --> 06:34.327 - And can you give any more, shine any more light on why 06:34.327 --> 06:36.363 those officers were suspended? 06:36.363 --> 06:39.399 - No, we're not going to talk about it right now, 06:42.135 --> 06:44.638 we're, again we're looking into it, 06:44.638 --> 06:46.039 and we want to get to the bottom of it. 06:46.039 --> 06:48.875 - Will that come out though, will there be a full report of 06:48.875 --> 06:51.177 what happened once that investigation is complete? 06:51.177 --> 06:53.513 - There will when the case is completed, 06:53.513 --> 06:55.015 when it's done, you know, it will be there. 06:55.015 --> 06:57.417 - Ok. Bill. 06:57.417 --> 07:00.553 - Sheriff, you talked about the sight-and-sound requirement, 07:00.553 --> 07:03.556 and a lot of folks might not understand that, 07:03.556 --> 07:08.094 but you can't just take a group of juveniles and put them in 07:08.094 --> 07:11.364 any empty space in the jail, there are some pretty strict 07:11.364 --> 07:13.867 requirements, and sight-and-sound means they 07:13.867 --> 07:17.304 can't be within sight, or within sound of your adult 07:17.304 --> 07:19.439 population in that jail, right? 07:19.439 --> 07:22.776 - That's right, yes sir. Yeah. 07:22.776 --> 07:26.713 - So with a new detention center that the county 07:26.713 --> 07:31.217 commission is considering, what would you be able to do there, 07:31.217 --> 07:34.688 that you're not able to do at the current detention center, 07:34.688 --> 07:37.991 because you and Mayor Harris has also talked about this. 07:39.426 --> 07:42.262 You want to make it clear that this detention center where 07:42.262 --> 07:47.100 children stay for, I think an average of 25 days, 07:47.100 --> 07:49.336 that you don't want them just sitting there 07:49.336 --> 07:51.404 in some secure area. 07:51.404 --> 07:53.873 - Well one of the things we found out since we've been 07:53.873 --> 07:57.344 operating the detention center, is the busier we keep them, 07:57.344 --> 08:00.413 the less trouble that they get into, 08:00.413 --> 08:03.249 the less trouble our officers have with them. 08:03.249 --> 08:05.985 So we want to be able to keep these kids in classes for more 08:05.985 --> 08:08.355 than four hours a day. 08:08.355 --> 08:12.292 In schools at least six hours a day. 08:12.292 --> 08:15.328 We'd like to see smaller housing units, 08:15.328 --> 08:18.298 right now, the way, I don't know if you've ever been down 08:18.298 --> 08:21.634 there to visit juvenile court, but the housing units are set 08:21.634 --> 08:25.739 up, not appropriately, we would like to see pods, 08:25.739 --> 08:28.541 if you will. 08:28.541 --> 08:31.644 Where the housing units where the officers have more control. 08:31.644 --> 08:34.447 We don't have to use as many officers doing some of the 08:34.447 --> 08:37.350 things that we do with the kids down there. 08:37.350 --> 08:41.921 So it's an opportunity for us to have a better educational 08:43.590 --> 08:47.460 program, be able to get volunteers in, mentors. 08:47.460 --> 08:50.630 A lot of these kids, I say this all the time. 08:50.630 --> 08:53.767 No kid is born as a bad child, you know. 08:53.767 --> 08:57.771 These kids are born into bad circumstances. 08:57.771 --> 09:02.075 And a lot of times these kids just don't know any other way. 09:02.075 --> 09:04.778 And so it's about bringing positive influence 09:04.778 --> 09:07.180 in to the court. 09:07.180 --> 09:10.950 To the detention center, and exposing them 09:10.950 --> 09:12.852 to positive people. 09:12.852 --> 09:18.458 - Mmhmm. How much input does the sheriff as an office 09:18.458 --> 09:22.429 have in terms of how many juveniles wind up in detention. 09:22.429 --> 09:24.731 That's a decision that's made by other parts of the system, 09:24.731 --> 09:27.700 as I understand it. - It is right now. 09:27.700 --> 09:31.171 We take them as they come. 09:31.171 --> 09:33.740 You know, Judge Michael and the courts, 09:33.740 --> 09:37.076 they hear all the cases, I don't know if you know or not, 09:37.076 --> 09:40.547 but we have approximately 30 juveniles out at jail-lease 09:40.547 --> 09:42.782 that have been adjudicated. 09:42.782 --> 09:46.386 In other words they're going to be tried as adults, 09:46.386 --> 09:50.390 and as they turn 18 they move down to 201. 09:50.390 --> 09:52.125 But they are also juveniles, even though they are being 09:52.125 --> 09:55.895 charged with adult crimes, they're still juveniles and it 09:55.895 --> 09:59.032 has to meet the sight-and-sound requirements. 09:59.032 --> 10:02.168 So we have space out at 10:02.168 --> 10:05.405 jail-lease that we keep those juveniles at. 10:05.405 --> 10:07.707 - Jail-lease, and then I'll go back to Bill, 10:07.707 --> 10:10.543 is more specifically, I thought it was built for women. 10:10.543 --> 10:12.912 - It was built for women, yes. 10:12.912 --> 10:14.647 - And you've got, about how many, 10:14.647 --> 10:16.416 so the downtown jail is primarily men? 10:16.416 --> 10:18.017 - Yes, yes. 10:18.017 --> 10:19.452 - I think that you're talking about with the adult population. 10:19.452 --> 10:21.654 - Yes sir. - But you've got space for 30, 10:21.654 --> 10:23.323 because you've outgrown the 10:23.323 --> 10:25.758 juvenile justice, the space at the juvenile justice center? 10:25.758 --> 10:27.460 Is that why you've had to put them out there, 10:27.460 --> 10:29.629 or are they more or less violent, 10:29.629 --> 10:31.998 what's the criteria for moving them out to jail-lease? 10:31.998 --> 10:34.634 - Well, actually, outgrown the space. 10:34.634 --> 10:36.736 I mean when you look at juvenile court when you're 10:36.736 --> 10:40.406 trying to separate those kids, we didn't have the space down 10:41.875 --> 10:44.611 at 201 Poplar for that many kids. 10:44.611 --> 10:47.280 And we only had space for the nine that we had down, 10:47.280 --> 10:50.383 with this incident that occurred last week, 10:50.383 --> 10:53.319 so, we had to make other arrangments, 10:53.319 --> 10:56.723 and kind of re-tool ourselves, if you will, 10:56.723 --> 10:59.225 and we moved those kids out at jail-lease, 10:59.225 --> 11:01.961 out there that's getting ready to be adjudicated, 11:01.961 --> 11:06.432 and as they turn 18 they move to 201, 11:08.067 --> 11:10.703 but going back to Bill, your original question was, 11:10.703 --> 11:13.506 is that, you know it's kind of up to the courts. 11:15.008 --> 11:18.778 We have a call ahead program, we're doing all we can do to 11:18.778 --> 11:21.481 keep these kids, keep the numbers down at juvenile court 11:21.481 --> 11:23.383 as we can. 11:23.383 --> 11:26.085 Judge Michael, his staff down at juvenile court, 11:26.085 --> 11:29.556 they do a tremendous job trying to keep these kids out, 11:29.556 --> 11:31.658 getting them back to their parents, 11:31.658 --> 11:34.494 getting them back in society. 11:36.763 --> 11:40.066 I go usually, it's the last Tuesday of the month, 11:40.066 --> 11:42.735 will go down to juvenile court and speak on the cease fire to 11:42.735 --> 11:45.171 kids that have been involved, 11:45.171 --> 11:47.807 or have gun crimes for the first time. 11:47.807 --> 11:50.243 And you go down there, and we talk, 11:50.243 --> 11:51.811 Director Rawlings has been there, 11:51.811 --> 11:53.513 I've been there. 11:53.513 --> 11:55.381 And you're talking to these kids, 11:55.381 --> 11:58.017 trying to get them to understand that carrying a gun 11:58.017 --> 12:00.887 is so dangerous. 12:00.887 --> 12:03.389 So, so violent, it can be so violent. 12:03.389 --> 12:06.159 So these kids are first time gun offenders, 12:06.159 --> 12:10.196 and we're, the ladies down there just do a tremendous job, 12:10.196 --> 12:12.732 and so we're trying to do all we can do to keep 12:12.732 --> 12:14.334 them out of the system. 12:14.334 --> 12:18.204 - Mmhmm. And so your contact with them, I mean if you look 12:18.204 --> 12:20.974 at the offenses, if you look at what happened, 12:20.974 --> 12:24.177 that many times, that got these children in juvenile court, 12:24.177 --> 12:26.479 it can be pretty scary. 12:26.479 --> 12:29.415 If you don't ever talk to these children, 12:29.415 --> 12:32.518 and realize that they are children, 12:32.518 --> 12:35.121 despite the serious nature of this, 12:35.121 --> 12:37.557 if you never have that contact with them, 12:37.557 --> 12:40.560 you might think, this is really serious, 12:40.560 --> 12:44.998 let's just lock them up and throw away the key. 12:44.998 --> 12:49.836 What do you say to people who look at the offenses and think, 12:49.836 --> 12:52.272 and have that kind of reaction? 12:52.272 --> 12:54.641 - And I understand that because the kids down at juvenile 12:54.641 --> 12:57.443 court, these kids are not down there for truancy. 12:57.443 --> 13:00.680 They're down there for some serious crimes. 13:00.680 --> 13:03.883 Judge Michael and the courts only keep kids that have 13:05.952 --> 13:08.154 committed some pretty serious crimes. 13:08.154 --> 13:10.223 But again, they're children. 13:10.223 --> 13:13.693 And you have to look at the things that they were exposed 13:13.693 --> 13:16.629 to, growing up, as children. 13:16.629 --> 13:19.399 And we were all kids once upon a time. 13:19.399 --> 13:22.268 We didn't always make the right decisions. 13:22.268 --> 13:24.804 I was fortunate, you know, I grew up in a home with a mother 13:24.804 --> 13:27.607 and a father, and I had aunts and uncles, 13:27.607 --> 13:30.043 and grandmas, you know that kind of 13:30.043 --> 13:32.145 kept an eye on us and everything. 13:32.145 --> 13:34.947 We had structure. 13:34.947 --> 13:37.650 Structure in our lives, if you will. 13:37.650 --> 13:39.952 And a lot of these kids don't have that. 13:39.952 --> 13:43.389 And so when you talk to them, and you really get down, 13:44.991 --> 13:47.427 when you really drill down with them, 13:47.427 --> 13:50.163 you see that these kids have never had any 13:50.163 --> 13:52.231 structure in their lives. 13:52.231 --> 13:54.534 Some of these kids are even homeless down at juvenile 13:54.534 --> 13:57.170 court, so, who's there to teach them, 13:57.170 --> 13:59.205 who's there to show them? 14:01.007 --> 14:03.676 And until we as a society, you know, 14:04.711 --> 14:06.546 I often say the African proverb, 14:06.546 --> 14:09.215 "It takes a village to raise a child." 14:09.215 --> 14:12.185 So some of these kids, we can't just throw them away, 14:12.185 --> 14:14.787 they're going to be here in the community. 14:14.787 --> 14:16.522 - A couple of questions then we'll move onto other things, 14:16.522 --> 14:18.891 staying on juvenile justice for a moment, 14:18.891 --> 14:21.994 the number of the current facility 14:21.994 --> 14:24.731 can house how many kids? 14:24.731 --> 14:28.901 - I think our current facility will house 120. 14:29.669 --> 14:32.038 - Is that an ideal number, or is that what it can 14:32.038 --> 14:34.073 possibly do? - Oh no. 14:34.073 --> 14:36.275 - So then the ideal number is more like? 14:36.275 --> 14:38.578 - I wish the ideal number was zero. 14:38.578 --> 14:40.913 - (Eric) Yeah, right, fair enough. 14:40.913 --> 14:45.585 - But, we have been as low as, back in December, 14:46.686 --> 14:50.456 November-December, we've been as low as like 49 or so. 14:50.456 --> 14:54.026 - And the ratio of your staff, the guards, 14:54.026 --> 14:58.164 the deputies to the number of kids should be what? 15:00.199 --> 15:03.970 - Well I think DCS wants you to be at an eight to one ratio. 15:03.970 --> 15:06.172 - Are you able to do that? 15:06.172 --> 15:09.842 - Well, right now, the night of the incident, 15:09.842 --> 15:15.348 we had 92 kids, 4 were females, 88 were males. 15:16.315 --> 15:18.885 That night we had 14 officers working, 15:18.885 --> 15:20.953 that night, so. 15:20.953 --> 15:24.423 - Last question, is it not, you talked about the desire to get 15:25.658 --> 15:27.894 these kids back on track. 15:27.894 --> 15:31.397 Despite very, you know, horrible things they may have 15:32.765 --> 15:35.067 done, or at least are accused of doing. 15:35.067 --> 15:37.303 Is it not possible to do some of the mentoring and education 15:37.303 --> 15:38.905 in the current facility? 15:38.905 --> 15:40.907 Because part of the debate, it seems like at the county 15:40.907 --> 15:42.642 commission, Mayor Harris, others, 15:42.642 --> 15:45.645 about whether to invest in this new facility, 15:45.645 --> 15:48.247 it's almost, it's a variation on the chicken-and-egg. 15:48.247 --> 15:49.849 Some folks are saying, and in part you are saying, 15:49.849 --> 15:52.318 we need this new facility to do these other things, 15:52.318 --> 15:54.187 like more education and more mentoring. 15:54.187 --> 15:56.556 Other people are saying well go ahead and start it now, 15:56.556 --> 15:58.357 prove that you are sincere about that, 15:58.357 --> 16:00.092 and then we'll fund it. 16:00.092 --> 16:01.928 Why not, why can you not do more education, 16:01.928 --> 16:04.964 more mentoring, in the current facility? 16:04.964 --> 16:07.133 - Well, if you come down and look at the current facility, 16:07.133 --> 16:10.002 the roof leaks, you know education, 16:10.002 --> 16:11.838 you have to be in an environment that's 16:11.838 --> 16:14.540 conducive to learning. 16:14.540 --> 16:17.810 And you, with all the distractions and things that 16:19.512 --> 16:23.916 goes on down there, it's quite noisy sometimes, 16:23.916 --> 16:29.055 but the roof leaks, and it's just not an area that's 16:29.055 --> 16:32.391 conducive for learning right now. 16:32.391 --> 16:34.260 - Let's move onto another thing that's been in the headlines, 16:34.260 --> 16:36.128 we've talked a little bit about it on the show, 16:36.128 --> 16:37.630 which is immigration. 16:37.630 --> 16:40.666 And the role of the county, and specifically your office in 16:40.666 --> 16:44.937 enforcing detentions, or raids by Immigration and Custom... 16:44.937 --> 16:47.406 - (Bill) Enforcement. ICE. 16:47.406 --> 16:50.676 - Enforcement, thank you. ICE. 16:50.676 --> 16:52.745 And then a state law that was passed and went into effect on 16:52.745 --> 16:56.883 January first that put more onus on local counties to 16:56.883 --> 16:59.886 enforce immigration laws, and then the Shelby County Attorney 16:59.886 --> 17:01.654 and Mayor Harris said, "No, we're not doing that." 17:01.654 --> 17:03.256 - (Sheriff Bonner) Right. 17:03.256 --> 17:05.324 - What is your understanding of your role when it comes to 17:05.324 --> 17:08.461 illegal immigration? 17:08.461 --> 17:13.599 - Well, first of all, I applaud the County Mayor's office for, 17:14.934 --> 17:17.036 we asked for an opinion, and they gave us an opinion 17:17.036 --> 17:19.438 on the new law. 17:19.438 --> 17:22.675 Let me explain the process. - (Eric) Please. 17:22.675 --> 17:24.877 - Anyone that comes into our jail, 17:24.877 --> 17:28.047 we ask them, "Where were you born?" 17:28.047 --> 17:31.450 Now, if you tell us that you were born anywhere outside of 17:31.450 --> 17:35.821 the United States, then we contact ICE, ok. 17:35.821 --> 17:38.891 We contact them, we let them know, 17:38.891 --> 17:42.628 hey, Eric's here at 201, he says he was born 17:42.628 --> 17:44.730 in Paris, France. Ok. 17:46.165 --> 17:48.734 Now, it's up to the ICE Agent to decide if he wants to come 17:48.734 --> 17:50.870 down and talk to you or... 17:50.870 --> 17:52.538 - Do you check for documentation? 17:52.538 --> 17:54.040 - No. 17:54.040 --> 17:55.474 - Do you ask if they are an illegal immigrant? 17:55.474 --> 17:55.942 - No. We do not. 17:55.942 --> 17:58.277 - Are you required by law to ask that question? 17:58.277 --> 18:03.582 - No. We're required by law to ask them are they, 18:03.582 --> 18:06.385 where they were born. What's their birth place. 18:06.385 --> 18:08.387 - You are required by law. State law? 18:08.387 --> 18:10.423 - Yes. State law. 18:10.423 --> 18:12.658 That's a state law to ask them where were you born. 18:12.658 --> 18:15.294 What's your origin nation. 18:15.294 --> 18:17.163 - Sorry, just because I do think this is worth talking 18:17.163 --> 18:19.131 about, because there's so much yelling about immigration, 18:19.131 --> 18:21.834 and this really is the kind of point in which some of the 18:21.834 --> 18:24.570 interactions between law enforcement and immigrants 18:24.570 --> 18:26.606 happen, so bear with me. 18:26.606 --> 18:30.977 Are you required by law to then report to the ICE officers that 18:30.977 --> 18:33.346 this person was born outside the United States. 18:33.346 --> 18:34.981 - Yes. - You are. By State law. 18:34.981 --> 18:36.515 - Yes. By state law. 18:36.515 --> 18:38.150 - And that's the new law that just passed. 18:38.150 --> 18:38.551 - That's not the new law. - That's been existing law. 18:38.551 --> 18:41.387 - That's been existing for years. 18:41.387 --> 18:44.357 - The new law required you, tried to require you 18:44.357 --> 18:45.725 to do what then? 18:45.725 --> 18:47.960 - To hold. - To hold. 18:47.960 --> 18:49.929 In that circumstance where you ask and this person says 18:49.929 --> 18:52.098 they're from Paris, France, the new law was going to say, 18:52.098 --> 18:54.066 well you've got to hold onto them. 18:54.066 --> 18:56.535 - Well what we would do in that case, 18:56.535 --> 18:58.671 is we would call ICE, ICE would say yeah, 18:58.671 --> 19:00.906 I think we are interested in Eric, 19:00.906 --> 19:04.443 so would you hang onto him for 48 hours? 19:05.878 --> 19:09.749 Now, if you made your bond, ICE would still want us to hold you 19:09.749 --> 19:12.752 for an additional 48 hours. 19:12.752 --> 19:14.687 And that's where we kind of... 19:14.687 --> 19:17.723 - That's where you said no. - We said no. 19:17.723 --> 19:20.092 And we asked for the County opinion, 19:20.092 --> 19:22.094 because the United States Constitution says that you 19:22.094 --> 19:25.798 can't hold anyone in a jail without probable cause, 19:25.798 --> 19:28.768 without a warrant, and ICE has neither. 19:30.403 --> 19:34.607 They don't have a warrant, it's just a request. So-- 19:34.607 --> 19:37.309 - ICE raids, do you all assist with raids by ICE? 19:37.309 --> 19:39.145 - No sir. - You do not. 19:39.145 --> 19:40.680 - No sir, we do not. 19:40.680 --> 19:42.548 - Because in some areas, I don't know about Tennessee, 19:42.548 --> 19:43.849 some areas of the country, local law enforcement does 19:43.849 --> 19:45.384 participate in these raids. 19:45.384 --> 19:47.820 - And I think there are some areas in Tennessee that will 19:47.820 --> 19:51.924 assist ICE on raids, but the Shelby County Sheriff's Office, 19:53.025 --> 19:54.593 nor the Memphis Police Department, 19:54.593 --> 19:56.429 we don't assist. - And that's a policy decision 19:56.429 --> 19:58.064 you've made-- - Yes sir. 19:58.064 --> 20:00.132 - and continue I guess in your, and why? 20:00.132 --> 20:02.735 - Well, you have to consider, we're trying to solve crime, 20:02.735 --> 20:05.071 we're trying to build bridges in the community, 20:06.372 --> 20:09.375 so if we go into the community, our detectives go into the 20:09.375 --> 20:11.510 community trying to solve a murder, 20:11.510 --> 20:15.147 for instance, are the immigrants, 20:15.147 --> 20:17.783 or is that population going to talk to us, 20:17.783 --> 20:20.152 or do they think we're there on an ICE raid, 20:20.152 --> 20:24.256 you know, so it's just, it's so difficult for us to solve these 20:26.592 --> 20:28.828 crimes, and we're trying to build bridges, 20:28.828 --> 20:31.497 we're not trying to tear them down. 20:31.497 --> 20:34.133 I have no problem with ICE, I mean ICE... 20:34.133 --> 20:37.169 you know, ICE is ICE, they do what they do. 20:39.638 --> 20:44.176 But I think that if the Federal Government would like to see 20:44.176 --> 20:47.079 that as a law, then they should pass something. 20:47.079 --> 20:49.949 You notice nothing has ever come out of Washington 20:51.050 --> 20:52.885 where it was a law. 20:52.885 --> 20:55.387 It's all just been requests. 20:55.387 --> 20:58.357 - You, again, we noted newly-elected sheriff, 20:58.357 --> 21:00.392 but you've been involved with law enforcement for... 21:00.392 --> 21:02.194 a long time. 21:02.194 --> 21:03.696 - Thirty eight years I've been in the Shelby County 21:03.696 --> 21:05.664 - 38. - Sheriff's Office. 21:05.664 --> 21:09.468 - Do you see a, I mean right now in the national debate 21:09.468 --> 21:12.304 there are folks, President Trump included, 21:12.304 --> 21:15.774 who imply or cite that there's an almost disproportionate 21:15.774 --> 21:18.344 amount of crime that comes from illegal immigrants. 21:18.344 --> 21:20.246 Is that your experience? 21:20.246 --> 21:23.983 Do you see a disproportionate, or a high rate of crime locally 21:23.983 --> 21:25.818 among illegal immigrants? 21:25.818 --> 21:28.020 - No. No we don't see it. 21:29.855 --> 21:32.691 I know, I've heard the President say that, 21:32.691 --> 21:34.627 but we don't see it here in Shelby County, no sir. 21:34.627 --> 21:37.129 - Five minutes left. Bill. 21:37.129 --> 21:40.299 - Alright, and Sheriff, you talked about what the 21:40.299 --> 21:43.435 sheriff's department has to do, it seems to me as if you and 21:43.435 --> 21:46.405 Director Rawlings, who has made similar statements, 21:46.405 --> 21:49.375 that your position is whatever the laws are regarding 21:49.375 --> 21:54.547 immigration, that's fine, but we have priorities here that 21:56.081 --> 21:58.450 our law enforcement agencies have to do, 21:59.818 --> 22:02.121 and our resources have to go toward that. 22:02.121 --> 22:04.190 Is that an accurate assessment of? 22:04.190 --> 22:06.725 - That is Bill, I mean very much so. 22:08.060 --> 22:11.430 I wish I had another 500 deputies, 22:11.430 --> 22:13.966 you know, to where I could do more things, 22:13.966 --> 22:16.202 but our resources now, we're a full-service law enforcement 22:16.202 --> 22:20.673 agency, our resources are stretched to the limits now. 22:22.074 --> 22:25.878 You know we have over 30,000 warrants on just citizens of 22:25.878 --> 22:30.616 Shelby County that our fugitive division is out 7 days a week, 22:30.616 --> 22:33.519 24 hours a day out looking for people, 22:33.519 --> 22:37.489 and so, I mean to task us with that without any Federal 22:37.489 --> 22:41.760 funding, without any, really any guidance from the Federal 22:41.760 --> 22:45.931 Government, and you're asking us to what I think is probably, 22:48.267 --> 22:51.904 they will, the constitution will not even allow us to do 22:51.904 --> 22:53.973 48 hour holds anymore. 22:53.973 --> 22:57.309 For police investigation, but yet you want me to take an 22:57.309 --> 23:01.480 immigrant because an ICE agent says hold him, 23:01.480 --> 23:03.382 I might be interested in him. 23:03.382 --> 23:06.952 And that's another thing, that ICE agent may or may not come 23:06.952 --> 23:09.088 and get that person. 23:09.088 --> 23:12.758 But you're asking me to hold him for 48 hours, 23:12.758 --> 23:15.995 just till you decide if you want to come get him or not. 23:16.662 --> 23:19.832 - And if the agents do come to talk to that person, 23:19.832 --> 23:22.868 they're not there on a probable cause basis-- 23:22.868 --> 23:24.470 - No they're not. 23:24.470 --> 23:27.139 - Because they have met some set of standard for holding 23:27.139 --> 23:30.142 someone, they're there in essence to find out if there is 23:30.142 --> 23:33.112 an issue that they might be interested in. 23:33.112 --> 23:36.081 - That's correct, and even the, the request is not even signed 23:36.081 --> 23:38.050 by a judge. 23:38.050 --> 23:41.854 I mean the request is signed by a supervisor in the office, 23:43.522 --> 23:45.924 so I just think that there's a lot of legal questions and 23:45.924 --> 23:47.660 things that need to be cleaned up, 23:47.660 --> 23:49.695 if you will. 23:49.695 --> 23:52.298 If you want the local agencies to do it, 23:52.298 --> 23:55.301 I'm not trying to get Shelby County sued, 23:56.869 --> 24:00.372 or the taxpayers to have to pay out some huge lawsuit because 24:00.372 --> 24:02.942 we'd illegally held someone. 24:02.942 --> 24:05.778 I think it will wash out eventually. 24:05.778 --> 24:07.846 The Attorneys General, I've talked to, 24:07.846 --> 24:11.183 well, when Mr. Sessions was the Attorney General, 24:11.183 --> 24:13.652 and even Mr. Whitaker, who now is no longer, 24:14.920 --> 24:18.490 they visited Memphis when Mr. Whitaker was here. 24:18.490 --> 24:22.361 He told us in a group setting of West Tennessee law 24:22.361 --> 24:27.199 enforcement parties, he realized that we were not 24:27.199 --> 24:30.102 going out looking for immigrants, 24:30.102 --> 24:33.038 and he said that he was ok with it, so. 24:33.038 --> 24:35.407 - Whitaker being the Acting Attorney General-- 24:35.407 --> 24:37.276 - He was the acting Attorney General, yes. 24:37.276 --> 24:39.345 - We have a minute and a half left-- 24:39.345 --> 24:41.113 - Sure. - I have about 50 questions-- 24:41.113 --> 24:43.415 - [chuckles] Well you'll have to invite me back. 24:43.415 --> 24:45.017 - Yeah, we would love to have you back, 24:45.017 --> 24:46.819 because this has been a really good conversation. 24:46.819 --> 24:48.821 The other, you talk about the jail, 24:48.821 --> 24:51.557 what is the jail population give-or-take right now, 24:51.557 --> 24:54.460 and are you concerned about the size of the jail population. 24:54.460 --> 24:56.362 201 Poplar, let's focus on that, 24:56.362 --> 24:57.996 what people think of as 'the jail' even though there are 24:57.996 --> 24:59.999 these other facilities. 24:59.999 --> 25:02.634 And there have been times when it's gotten so big that 25:04.269 --> 25:04.903 there are problems that come from having 25:04.903 --> 25:06.839 too many people in that. 25:06.839 --> 25:08.774 - Sure, we're not going to call it the jail, we're going to call 25:08.774 --> 25:11.377 it the Walter Bailey Criminal Justice Complex [chuckles]-- 25:11.377 --> 25:13.545 - (Eric) Fair enough, fair enough. 25:13.545 --> 25:17.683 - Yes, we're usually housing about 26-2700 inmates. 25:17.683 --> 25:20.386 Now, of course we're concerned about the population, 25:20.386 --> 25:22.621 I have a jail population manager, 25:22.621 --> 25:24.656 we're doing all we... 25:24.656 --> 25:28.093 we receive grants from different organizations, 25:29.528 --> 25:32.131 foundations, trying to figure out a way how to get people 25:32.131 --> 25:34.366 out of jail. 25:34.366 --> 25:36.068 Another thing that we haven't touched on is 25:36.068 --> 25:37.970 the mental health issue. 25:37.970 --> 25:40.272 We have a mental health crisis here in Shelby County, 25:40.272 --> 25:42.641 and all across the nation, we're not, 25:42.641 --> 25:44.910 Shelby County is not exclusive to that. 25:44.910 --> 25:47.312 - Do you have the resources you need, with just 10 seconds left, 25:47.312 --> 25:48.881 for mental health and that population? 25:48.881 --> 25:50.416 - No. I don't. 25:50.416 --> 25:52.251 I don't have the beds, I don't have any places to take these 25:52.251 --> 25:55.988 people that should not be in the Walter Bailey Criminal 25:55.988 --> 25:57.956 Justice Complex. 25:57.956 --> 25:59.625 - Alright, again, we will have you back, 25:59.625 --> 26:01.827 because the 30,000 warrants you mentioned, 26:01.827 --> 26:03.495 there's so many things that I wasn't able to get to, 26:03.495 --> 26:04.163 but thank you for being here-- 26:04.163 --> 26:05.798 - Sure, thank you for having me. 26:05.798 --> 26:07.566 - and thank you Bill, and thank you for joining us, 26:07.566 --> 26:09.668 join us again, next week. 26:09.668 --> 26:12.671 [dramatic orchestral music] 26:26.418 --> 26:28.420 [acoustic guitar chords]