1 00:00:01,134 --> 00:00:02,336 - (female narrator)   Production funding for 2 00:00:02,336 --> 00:00:04,805 Behind the Headlines   is made possible in part by: 3 00:00:05,672 --> 00:00:07,808 The WKNO Production Fund, 4 00:00:07,808 --> 00:00:10,043 the WKNO Endowment Fund, 5 00:00:10,043 --> 00:00:12,145 and by viewers like you.   Thank you. 6 00:00:13,213 --> 00:00:15,115 - Sheriff Floyd Bonner on the jail, 7 00:00:15,115 --> 00:00:17,651 juvenile justice, and more, tonight 8 00:00:17,651 --> 00:00:19,186 on Behind the Headlines. 9 00:00:19,186 --> 00:00:21,521 [dramatic orchestral music] 10 00:00:36,236 --> 00:00:37,371 I'm Eric Barnes, 11 00:00:37,371 --> 00:00:39,473 president and executive editor of The Daily Memphian, 12 00:00:39,473 --> 00:00:40,974 thanks for joining us. 13 00:00:40,974 --> 00:00:42,376 I am joined tonight by Shelby County Sheriff 14 00:00:42,376 --> 00:00:44,311 Floyd Bonner, Jr. Thank you for being here. 15 00:00:44,311 --> 00:00:46,346 - Thank you for having me. 16 00:00:46,346 --> 00:00:47,514 - Along with Bill Dries, 17 00:00:47,514 --> 00:00:49,850 reporter with The Daily Memphian. 18 00:00:49,850 --> 00:00:51,818 - Let's start, you are newly elected, 19 00:00:51,818 --> 00:00:55,355 in this past fall, so been in office three, four months. 20 00:00:55,355 --> 00:00:57,457 There's a lot of conversation right now, 21 00:00:57,457 --> 00:00:59,159 we've done a number of shows about, 22 00:00:59,159 --> 00:01:01,328 or where we touched on the question of juvenile justice 23 00:01:01,328 --> 00:01:05,132 and specifically the juvenile justice center and the 24 00:01:05,132 --> 00:01:09,002 county pondering a million-three investment, 25 00:01:09,002 --> 00:01:12,539 sort of down payment on a new juvenile justice center, 26 00:01:12,539 --> 00:01:15,776 towards ultimately I think about a $25 million project. 27 00:01:15,776 --> 00:01:17,611 Do you think, let's just start there, 28 00:01:17,611 --> 00:01:19,980 do you think the county should put money towards a new 29 00:01:19,980 --> 00:01:22,282 juvenile justice center? 30 00:01:22,282 --> 00:01:24,785 - Well as you know, as sheriff, we run the detention center 31 00:01:24,785 --> 00:01:27,688 there at juvenile court, and I think the last time the 32 00:01:27,688 --> 00:01:30,390 detention center was added on, 33 00:01:30,390 --> 00:01:33,660 or kind of re-done was in the '90s. 34 00:01:33,660 --> 00:01:36,930 So you're talking about a facility that's extremely old, 35 00:01:36,930 --> 00:01:41,401 outdated, we've been talking about building a new justice or 36 00:01:41,401 --> 00:01:44,171 detention center for the juveniles now for about, 37 00:01:45,739 --> 00:01:50,277 three, four, five years. And I think it's come time now 38 00:01:50,277 --> 00:01:52,579 that we really get serious about it. 39 00:01:52,579 --> 00:01:55,182 We hope that the county commission will fund it. 40 00:01:55,182 --> 00:01:57,551 As you know right now, we're talking about, 41 00:01:57,551 --> 00:02:00,354 they're going through the prelim things, 42 00:02:00,354 --> 00:02:03,590 trying to get the architect, but I think it's supposed to 43 00:02:03,590 --> 00:02:06,994 cost around $25 million, so. 44 00:02:06,994 --> 00:02:08,895 - And you all, effectively your office, 45 00:02:08,895 --> 00:02:11,832 the sheriff's office provides what laymen would think of, 46 00:02:11,832 --> 00:02:15,102 the lay person would think of as the guards at the detention 47 00:02:15,102 --> 00:02:16,837 center and juvenile justice, is that correct? 48 00:02:16,837 --> 00:02:18,505 - That's correct, that's correct. 49 00:02:18,505 --> 00:02:19,973 - And about how many people are there, 50 00:02:19,973 --> 00:02:21,341 of your staff? 51 00:02:21,341 --> 00:02:24,111 - About 75. - About 75, ok. 52 00:02:24,111 --> 00:02:27,147 One of the questions is about, the juvenile justice center has 53 00:02:27,147 --> 00:02:30,384 also been under scrutiny, there was Federal oversight, 54 00:02:30,384 --> 00:02:33,186 that has ended since President Trump's administration, 55 00:02:33,186 --> 00:02:35,789 and former Attorney General Jeff Sessions. 56 00:02:35,789 --> 00:02:38,058 Where did you stand on whether oversight, 57 00:02:38,058 --> 00:02:40,627 Federal oversight should continue or end? 58 00:02:40,627 --> 00:02:42,829 - Well I thought it should end. 59 00:02:42,829 --> 00:02:44,798 I mean, we took over juvenile court, 60 00:02:44,798 --> 00:02:48,368 we the sheriff's office, took over juvenile court in 2015, 61 00:02:48,368 --> 00:02:52,773 I think when DOJ actually came into juvenile court was 2012. 62 00:02:54,274 --> 00:02:56,476 So it had been going on, so when the sheriff, 63 00:02:56,476 --> 00:02:59,012 the previous sheriff, Sheriff Oldham, 64 00:02:59,012 --> 00:03:02,149 decided that he would handle the detention for juvenile 65 00:03:02,149 --> 00:03:05,986 court, we came in and we looked at what DOJ was asking, 66 00:03:05,986 --> 00:03:08,555 and then we did everything. 67 00:03:08,555 --> 00:03:12,459 I mean we were at 94% of the things that DOJ was asking us 68 00:03:13,693 --> 00:03:17,531 to do, and the other 6% was because the facility was so old 69 00:03:17,531 --> 00:03:21,001 that we couldn't do things about the facility. 70 00:03:21,001 --> 00:03:25,038 So it kind of rendered us helpless 71 00:03:25,038 --> 00:03:27,541 there in that part of it. - (Eric) Right. 72 00:03:27,541 --> 00:03:31,578 But, I think what we did learn, we learned a lot of things, 73 00:03:31,578 --> 00:03:33,647 we received a lot of training, 74 00:03:33,647 --> 00:03:35,849 our officers received a lot of training. 75 00:03:35,849 --> 00:03:37,818 We had a lot of help from different organizations, 76 00:03:37,818 --> 00:03:40,854 national organizations. 77 00:03:40,854 --> 00:03:44,257 Dr. David Rausch, who was one of the first 78 00:03:44,257 --> 00:03:48,361 DOJ monitors that came in at that time. 79 00:03:48,361 --> 00:03:50,464 We've now, we now, the sheriff's office has hired 80 00:03:50,464 --> 00:03:55,702 Dr. Rausch as a consultant because we want to continue 81 00:03:55,702 --> 00:03:59,706 down the right path. We take it very seriously 82 00:03:59,706 --> 00:04:02,742 and we're going to keep moving forward. 83 00:04:02,742 --> 00:04:05,212 - Before I go to Bill, there was an incident 84 00:04:05,212 --> 00:04:08,248 I believe last week, with... 85 00:04:08,248 --> 00:04:11,685 some kind of incident that resulted in 11 juveniles being 86 00:04:11,685 --> 00:04:14,254 moved after some sort of, I would frame it as an outburst, 87 00:04:14,254 --> 00:04:16,356 but I'll let you frame it as what it was, 88 00:04:16,356 --> 00:04:19,793 there was some damage done in the juvenile detention center, 89 00:04:19,793 --> 00:04:22,796 11 youths were moved to 201 Poplar, 90 00:04:22,796 --> 00:04:25,432 the adult jail, and two of your, 91 00:04:25,432 --> 00:04:27,768 I think it was two of your offiers, 92 00:04:27,768 --> 00:04:30,637 were suspended in some form or fashion. 93 00:04:30,637 --> 00:04:32,806 Tell me what happened last week. 94 00:04:32,806 --> 00:04:35,075 - Well last week we had a disturbance down at juvenile 95 00:04:35,075 --> 00:04:38,945 court, something that never occurred since we'd been there. 96 00:04:38,945 --> 00:04:43,383 I was asked that the other day, I've never known it to happen, 97 00:04:43,383 --> 00:04:45,485 but we had a disturbance down there. 98 00:04:45,485 --> 00:04:49,556 About 14, 15 youth were involved in that disturbance. 99 00:04:49,556 --> 00:04:51,858 No officers were hurt. 100 00:04:51,858 --> 00:04:55,395 We had two juveniles that had non-life-threatening injuries, 101 00:04:57,631 --> 00:05:01,601 we took eleven of them down to 201. 102 00:05:01,601 --> 00:05:05,105 Now, what many people don't know is that we've housed 103 00:05:05,105 --> 00:05:08,375 juveniles at 201 before, in the past, 104 00:05:09,576 --> 00:05:14,181 we do have an area there that we can put them in that meets 105 00:05:14,181 --> 00:05:18,251 the sight-and-sound requirements that the DOJ 106 00:05:18,251 --> 00:05:20,987 requires, so right now we've moved them down there, 107 00:05:20,987 --> 00:05:23,890 and as you said, it was about $3,000, 108 00:05:23,890 --> 00:05:27,427 $3,500-$5,000 worth of damage, there was some glass breakage, 109 00:05:27,427 --> 00:05:29,496 a TV was broken. 110 00:05:30,931 --> 00:05:33,567 And we're repairing that, as a matter of fact, 111 00:05:33,567 --> 00:05:35,969 everything, juvenile court is back up and running. 112 00:05:35,969 --> 00:05:39,539 Until we get the glass, some of the windows repaired, 113 00:05:39,539 --> 00:05:43,610 we expect to move the juveniles back to the facility on Friday 114 00:05:43,610 --> 00:05:45,612 as a matter of fact. 115 00:05:45,612 --> 00:05:47,847 - But, and I misquoted, was it five officers 116 00:05:47,847 --> 00:05:49,316 that were suspended? 117 00:05:49,316 --> 00:05:51,418 - It was five, yes. - Suspended for what reason? 118 00:05:51,418 --> 00:05:54,221 - They were relieved of duty with pay. 119 00:05:54,221 --> 00:05:55,589 - And are they still? 120 00:05:55,589 --> 00:05:58,858 - And they still are, right now it's under investigation. 121 00:05:59,826 --> 00:06:01,862 We're looking into some things that happend down there. 122 00:06:02,729 --> 00:06:06,132 Failures that we think that occurred right now, 123 00:06:07,334 --> 00:06:09,436 so it's still kind of under investigation, 124 00:06:09,436 --> 00:06:12,606 we're looking into what caused the fight, 125 00:06:12,606 --> 00:06:15,408 what was going on, what the officers were doing, 126 00:06:15,408 --> 00:06:18,345 just the whole entire situation. 127 00:06:18,345 --> 00:06:20,280 - You said two juveniles were injured, 128 00:06:20,280 --> 00:06:22,115 taken to hospital, or? 129 00:06:22,115 --> 00:06:26,286 - They were seen by the medical staff there at juvenile court. 130 00:06:27,220 --> 00:06:28,688 - Juveniles injuring each other, 131 00:06:28,688 --> 00:06:30,290 or injured by sheriff's deputies? 132 00:06:30,290 --> 00:06:32,359 - Each other, yes sir. 133 00:06:32,359 --> 00:06:34,327 - And can you give any more, shine any more light on why 134 00:06:34,327 --> 00:06:36,363 those officers were suspended? 135 00:06:36,363 --> 00:06:39,399 - No, we're not going to talk about it right now, 136 00:06:42,135 --> 00:06:44,638 we're, again we're looking into it, 137 00:06:44,638 --> 00:06:46,039 and we want to get to the bottom of it. 138 00:06:46,039 --> 00:06:48,875 - Will that come out though, will there be a full report of 139 00:06:48,875 --> 00:06:51,177 what happened once that investigation is complete? 140 00:06:51,177 --> 00:06:53,513 - There will when the case is completed, 141 00:06:53,513 --> 00:06:55,015 when it's done, you know, it will be there. 142 00:06:55,015 --> 00:06:57,417 - Ok. Bill. 143 00:06:57,417 --> 00:07:00,553 - Sheriff, you talked about the sight-and-sound requirement, 144 00:07:00,553 --> 00:07:03,556 and a lot of folks might not understand that, 145 00:07:03,556 --> 00:07:08,094 but you can't just take a group of juveniles and put them in 146 00:07:08,094 --> 00:07:11,364 any empty space in the jail, there are some pretty strict 147 00:07:11,364 --> 00:07:13,867 requirements, and sight-and-sound means they 148 00:07:13,867 --> 00:07:17,304 can't be within sight, or within sound of your adult 149 00:07:17,304 --> 00:07:19,439 population in that jail, right? 150 00:07:19,439 --> 00:07:22,776 - That's right, yes sir. Yeah. 151 00:07:22,776 --> 00:07:26,713 - So with a new detention center that the county 152 00:07:26,713 --> 00:07:31,217 commission is considering, what would you be able to do there, 153 00:07:31,217 --> 00:07:34,688 that you're not able to do at the current detention center, 154 00:07:34,688 --> 00:07:37,991 because you and Mayor Harris has also talked about this. 155 00:07:39,426 --> 00:07:42,262 You want to make it clear that this detention center where 156 00:07:42,262 --> 00:07:47,100 children stay for, I think an average of 25 days, 157 00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:49,336 that you don't want them just sitting there 158 00:07:49,336 --> 00:07:51,404 in some secure area. 159 00:07:51,404 --> 00:07:53,873 - Well one of the things we found out since we've been 160 00:07:53,873 --> 00:07:57,344 operating the detention center, is the busier we keep them, 161 00:07:57,344 --> 00:08:00,413 the less trouble that they get into, 162 00:08:00,413 --> 00:08:03,249 the less trouble our officers have with them. 163 00:08:03,249 --> 00:08:05,985 So we want to be able to keep these kids in classes for more 164 00:08:05,985 --> 00:08:08,355 than four hours a day. 165 00:08:08,355 --> 00:08:12,292 In schools at least six hours a day. 166 00:08:12,292 --> 00:08:15,328 We'd like to see smaller housing units, 167 00:08:15,328 --> 00:08:18,298 right now, the way, I don't know if you've ever been down 168 00:08:18,298 --> 00:08:21,634 there to visit juvenile court, but the housing units are set 169 00:08:21,634 --> 00:08:25,739 up, not appropriately, we would like to see pods, 170 00:08:25,739 --> 00:08:28,541 if you will. 171 00:08:28,541 --> 00:08:31,644 Where the housing units where the officers have more control. 172 00:08:31,644 --> 00:08:34,447 We don't have to use as many officers doing some of the 173 00:08:34,447 --> 00:08:37,350 things that we do with the kids down there. 174 00:08:37,350 --> 00:08:41,921 So it's an opportunity for us to have a better educational 175 00:08:43,590 --> 00:08:47,460 program, be able to get volunteers in, mentors. 176 00:08:47,460 --> 00:08:50,630 A lot of these kids, I say this all the time. 177 00:08:50,630 --> 00:08:53,767 No kid is born as a bad child, you know. 178 00:08:53,767 --> 00:08:57,771 These kids are born into bad circumstances. 179 00:08:57,771 --> 00:09:02,075 And a lot of times these kids just don't know any other way. 180 00:09:02,075 --> 00:09:04,778 And so it's about bringing positive influence 181 00:09:04,778 --> 00:09:07,180 in to the court. 182 00:09:07,180 --> 00:09:10,950 To the detention center, and exposing them 183 00:09:10,950 --> 00:09:12,852 to positive people. 184 00:09:12,852 --> 00:09:18,458 - Mmhmm. How much input does the sheriff as an office 185 00:09:18,458 --> 00:09:22,429 have in terms of how many juveniles wind up in detention. 186 00:09:22,429 --> 00:09:24,731 That's a decision that's made by other parts of the system, 187 00:09:24,731 --> 00:09:27,700 as I understand it. - It is right now. 188 00:09:27,700 --> 00:09:31,171 We take them as they come. 189 00:09:31,171 --> 00:09:33,740 You know, Judge Michael and the courts, 190 00:09:33,740 --> 00:09:37,076 they hear all the cases, I don't know if you know or not, 191 00:09:37,076 --> 00:09:40,547 but we have approximately 30 juveniles out at jail-lease 192 00:09:40,547 --> 00:09:42,782 that have been adjudicated. 193 00:09:42,782 --> 00:09:46,386 In other words they're going to be tried as adults, 194 00:09:46,386 --> 00:09:50,390 and as they turn 18 they move down to 201. 195 00:09:50,390 --> 00:09:52,125 But they are also juveniles, even though they are being 196 00:09:52,125 --> 00:09:55,895 charged with adult crimes, they're still juveniles and it 197 00:09:55,895 --> 00:09:59,032 has to meet the sight-and-sound requirements. 198 00:09:59,032 --> 00:10:02,168 So we have space out at 199 00:10:02,168 --> 00:10:05,405 jail-lease that we keep those juveniles at. 200 00:10:05,405 --> 00:10:07,707 - Jail-lease, and then I'll go back to Bill, 201 00:10:07,707 --> 00:10:10,543 is more specifically, I thought it was built for women. 202 00:10:10,543 --> 00:10:12,912 - It was built for women, yes. 203 00:10:12,912 --> 00:10:14,647 - And you've got, about how many, 204 00:10:14,647 --> 00:10:16,416 so the downtown jail is primarily men? 205 00:10:16,416 --> 00:10:18,017 - Yes, yes. 206 00:10:18,017 --> 00:10:19,452 - I think that you're talking about with the adult population. 207 00:10:19,452 --> 00:10:21,654 - Yes sir. - But you've got space for 30, 208 00:10:21,654 --> 00:10:23,323 because you've outgrown the 209 00:10:23,323 --> 00:10:25,758 juvenile justice, the space at the juvenile justice center? 210 00:10:25,758 --> 00:10:27,460 Is that why you've had to put them out there, 211 00:10:27,460 --> 00:10:29,629 or are they more or less violent, 212 00:10:29,629 --> 00:10:31,998 what's the criteria for moving them out to jail-lease? 213 00:10:31,998 --> 00:10:34,634 - Well, actually, outgrown the space. 214 00:10:34,634 --> 00:10:36,736 I mean when you look at juvenile court when you're 215 00:10:36,736 --> 00:10:40,406 trying to separate those kids, we didn't have the space down 216 00:10:41,875 --> 00:10:44,611 at 201 Poplar for that many kids. 217 00:10:44,611 --> 00:10:47,280 And we only had space for the nine that we had down, 218 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,383 with this incident that occurred last week, 219 00:10:50,383 --> 00:10:53,319 so, we had to make other arrangments, 220 00:10:53,319 --> 00:10:56,723 and kind of re-tool ourselves, if you will, 221 00:10:56,723 --> 00:10:59,225 and we moved those kids out at jail-lease, 222 00:10:59,225 --> 00:11:01,961 out there that's getting ready to be adjudicated, 223 00:11:01,961 --> 00:11:06,432 and as they turn 18 they move to 201, 224 00:11:08,067 --> 00:11:10,703 but going back to Bill, your original question was, 225 00:11:10,703 --> 00:11:13,506 is that, you know it's kind of up to the courts. 226 00:11:15,008 --> 00:11:18,778 We have a call ahead program, we're doing all we can do to 227 00:11:18,778 --> 00:11:21,481 keep these kids, keep the numbers down at juvenile court 228 00:11:21,481 --> 00:11:23,383 as we can. 229 00:11:23,383 --> 00:11:26,085 Judge Michael, his staff down at juvenile court, 230 00:11:26,085 --> 00:11:29,556 they do a tremendous job trying to keep these kids out, 231 00:11:29,556 --> 00:11:31,658 getting them back to their parents, 232 00:11:31,658 --> 00:11:34,494 getting them back in society. 233 00:11:36,763 --> 00:11:40,066 I go usually, it's the last Tuesday of the month, 234 00:11:40,066 --> 00:11:42,735 will go down to juvenile court and speak on the cease fire to 235 00:11:42,735 --> 00:11:45,171 kids that have been involved, 236 00:11:45,171 --> 00:11:47,807 or have gun crimes for the first time. 237 00:11:47,807 --> 00:11:50,243 And you go down there, and we talk, 238 00:11:50,243 --> 00:11:51,811 Director Rawlings has been there, 239 00:11:51,811 --> 00:11:53,513 I've been there. 240 00:11:53,513 --> 00:11:55,381 And you're talking to these kids, 241 00:11:55,381 --> 00:11:58,017 trying to get them to understand that carrying a gun 242 00:11:58,017 --> 00:12:00,887 is so dangerous. 243 00:12:00,887 --> 00:12:03,389 So, so violent, it can be so violent. 244 00:12:03,389 --> 00:12:06,159 So these kids are first time gun offenders, 245 00:12:06,159 --> 00:12:10,196 and we're, the ladies down there just do a tremendous job, 246 00:12:10,196 --> 00:12:12,732 and so we're trying to do all we can do to keep 247 00:12:12,732 --> 00:12:14,334 them out of the system. 248 00:12:14,334 --> 00:12:18,204 - Mmhmm. And so your contact with them, I mean if you look 249 00:12:18,204 --> 00:12:20,974 at the offenses, if you look at what happened, 250 00:12:20,974 --> 00:12:24,177 that many times, that got these children in juvenile court, 251 00:12:24,177 --> 00:12:26,479 it can be pretty scary. 252 00:12:26,479 --> 00:12:29,415 If you don't ever talk to these children, 253 00:12:29,415 --> 00:12:32,518 and realize that they are children, 254 00:12:32,518 --> 00:12:35,121 despite the serious nature of this, 255 00:12:35,121 --> 00:12:37,557 if you never have that contact with them, 256 00:12:37,557 --> 00:12:40,560 you might think, this is really serious, 257 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:44,998 let's just lock them up and throw away the key. 258 00:12:44,998 --> 00:12:49,836 What do you say to people who look at the offenses and think, 259 00:12:49,836 --> 00:12:52,272 and have that kind of reaction? 260 00:12:52,272 --> 00:12:54,641 - And I understand that because the kids down at juvenile 261 00:12:54,641 --> 00:12:57,443 court, these kids are not down there for truancy. 262 00:12:57,443 --> 00:13:00,680 They're down there for some serious crimes. 263 00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:03,883 Judge Michael and the courts only keep kids that have 264 00:13:05,952 --> 00:13:08,154 committed some pretty serious crimes. 265 00:13:08,154 --> 00:13:10,223 But again, they're children. 266 00:13:10,223 --> 00:13:13,693 And you have to look at the things that they were exposed 267 00:13:13,693 --> 00:13:16,629 to, growing up, as children. 268 00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:19,399 And we were all kids once upon a time. 269 00:13:19,399 --> 00:13:22,268 We didn't always make the right decisions. 270 00:13:22,268 --> 00:13:24,804 I was fortunate, you know, I grew up in a home with a mother 271 00:13:24,804 --> 00:13:27,607 and a father, and I had aunts and uncles, 272 00:13:27,607 --> 00:13:30,043 and grandmas, you know that kind of 273 00:13:30,043 --> 00:13:32,145 kept an eye on us and everything. 274 00:13:32,145 --> 00:13:34,947 We had structure. 275 00:13:34,947 --> 00:13:37,650 Structure in our lives, if you will. 276 00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:39,952 And a lot of these kids don't have that. 277 00:13:39,952 --> 00:13:43,389 And so when you talk to them, and you really get down, 278 00:13:44,991 --> 00:13:47,427 when you really drill down with them, 279 00:13:47,427 --> 00:13:50,163 you see that these kids have never had any 280 00:13:50,163 --> 00:13:52,231 structure in their lives. 281 00:13:52,231 --> 00:13:54,534 Some of these kids are even homeless down at juvenile 282 00:13:54,534 --> 00:13:57,170 court, so, who's there to teach them, 283 00:13:57,170 --> 00:13:59,205 who's there to show them? 284 00:14:01,007 --> 00:14:03,676 And until we as a society, you know, 285 00:14:04,711 --> 00:14:06,546 I often say the African proverb, 286 00:14:06,546 --> 00:14:09,215 "It takes a village to raise a child." 287 00:14:09,215 --> 00:14:12,185 So some of these kids, we can't just throw them away, 288 00:14:12,185 --> 00:14:14,787 they're going to be here in the community. 289 00:14:14,787 --> 00:14:16,522 - A couple of questions then we'll move onto other things, 290 00:14:16,522 --> 00:14:18,891 staying on juvenile justice for a moment, 291 00:14:18,891 --> 00:14:21,994 the number of the current facility 292 00:14:21,994 --> 00:14:24,731 can house how many kids? 293 00:14:24,731 --> 00:14:28,901 - I think our current facility will house 120. 294 00:14:29,669 --> 00:14:32,038 - Is that an ideal number, or is that what it can 295 00:14:32,038 --> 00:14:34,073 possibly do? - Oh no. 296 00:14:34,073 --> 00:14:36,275 - So then the ideal number is more like? 297 00:14:36,275 --> 00:14:38,578 - I wish the ideal number was zero. 298 00:14:38,578 --> 00:14:40,913 - (Eric) Yeah, right, fair enough. 299 00:14:40,913 --> 00:14:45,585 - But, we have been as low as, back in December, 300 00:14:46,686 --> 00:14:50,456 November-December, we've been as low as like 49 or so. 301 00:14:50,456 --> 00:14:54,026 - And the ratio of your staff, the guards, 302 00:14:54,026 --> 00:14:58,164 the deputies to the number of kids should be what? 303 00:15:00,199 --> 00:15:03,970 - Well I think DCS wants you to be at an eight to one ratio. 304 00:15:03,970 --> 00:15:06,172 - Are you able to do that? 305 00:15:06,172 --> 00:15:09,842 - Well, right now, the night of the incident, 306 00:15:09,842 --> 00:15:15,348 we had 92 kids, 4 were females, 88 were males. 307 00:15:16,315 --> 00:15:18,885 That night we had 14 officers working, 308 00:15:18,885 --> 00:15:20,953 that night, so. 309 00:15:20,953 --> 00:15:24,423 - Last question, is it not, you talked about the desire to get 310 00:15:25,658 --> 00:15:27,894 these kids back on track. 311 00:15:27,894 --> 00:15:31,397 Despite very, you know, horrible things they may have 312 00:15:32,765 --> 00:15:35,067 done, or at least are accused of doing. 313 00:15:35,067 --> 00:15:37,303 Is it not possible to do some of the mentoring and education 314 00:15:37,303 --> 00:15:38,905 in the current facility? 315 00:15:38,905 --> 00:15:40,907 Because part of the debate, it seems like at the county 316 00:15:40,907 --> 00:15:42,642 commission, Mayor Harris, others, 317 00:15:42,642 --> 00:15:45,645 about whether to invest in this new facility, 318 00:15:45,645 --> 00:15:48,247 it's almost, it's a variation on the chicken-and-egg. 319 00:15:48,247 --> 00:15:49,849 Some folks are saying, and in part you are saying, 320 00:15:49,849 --> 00:15:52,318 we need this new facility to do these other things, 321 00:15:52,318 --> 00:15:54,187 like more education and more mentoring. 322 00:15:54,187 --> 00:15:56,556 Other people are saying well go ahead and start it now, 323 00:15:56,556 --> 00:15:58,357 prove that you are sincere about that, 324 00:15:58,357 --> 00:16:00,092 and then we'll fund it. 325 00:16:00,092 --> 00:16:01,928 Why not, why can you not do more education, 326 00:16:01,928 --> 00:16:04,964 more mentoring, in the current facility? 327 00:16:04,964 --> 00:16:07,133 - Well, if you come down and look at the current facility, 328 00:16:07,133 --> 00:16:10,002 the roof leaks, you know education, 329 00:16:10,002 --> 00:16:11,838 you have to be in an environment that's 330 00:16:11,838 --> 00:16:14,540 conducive to learning. 331 00:16:14,540 --> 00:16:17,810 And you, with all the distractions and things that 332 00:16:19,512 --> 00:16:23,916 goes on down there, it's quite noisy sometimes, 333 00:16:23,916 --> 00:16:29,055 but the roof leaks, and it's just not an area that's 334 00:16:29,055 --> 00:16:32,391 conducive for learning right now. 335 00:16:32,391 --> 00:16:34,260 - Let's move onto another thing that's been in the headlines, 336 00:16:34,260 --> 00:16:36,128 we've talked a little bit about it on the show, 337 00:16:36,128 --> 00:16:37,630 which is immigration. 338 00:16:37,630 --> 00:16:40,666 And the role of the county, and specifically your office in 339 00:16:40,666 --> 00:16:44,937 enforcing detentions, or raids by Immigration and Custom... 340 00:16:44,937 --> 00:16:47,406 - (Bill) Enforcement. ICE. 341 00:16:47,406 --> 00:16:50,676 - Enforcement, thank you. ICE. 342 00:16:50,676 --> 00:16:52,745 And then a state law that was passed and went into effect on 343 00:16:52,745 --> 00:16:56,883 January first that put more onus on local counties to 344 00:16:56,883 --> 00:16:59,886 enforce immigration laws, and then the Shelby County Attorney 345 00:16:59,886 --> 00:17:01,654 and Mayor Harris said, "No, we're not doing that." 346 00:17:01,654 --> 00:17:03,256 - (Sheriff Bonner) Right. 347 00:17:03,256 --> 00:17:05,324 - What is your understanding of your role when it comes to 348 00:17:05,324 --> 00:17:08,461 illegal immigration? 349 00:17:08,461 --> 00:17:13,599 - Well, first of all, I applaud the County Mayor's office for, 350 00:17:14,934 --> 00:17:17,036 we asked for an opinion, and they gave us an opinion 351 00:17:17,036 --> 00:17:19,438 on the new law. 352 00:17:19,438 --> 00:17:22,675 Let me explain the process. - (Eric) Please. 353 00:17:22,675 --> 00:17:24,877 - Anyone that comes into our jail, 354 00:17:24,877 --> 00:17:28,047 we ask them, "Where were you born?" 355 00:17:28,047 --> 00:17:31,450 Now, if you tell us that you were born anywhere outside of 356 00:17:31,450 --> 00:17:35,821 the United States, then we contact ICE, ok. 357 00:17:35,821 --> 00:17:38,891 We contact them, we let them know, 358 00:17:38,891 --> 00:17:42,628 hey, Eric's here at 201, he says he was born 359 00:17:42,628 --> 00:17:44,730 in Paris, France. Ok. 360 00:17:46,165 --> 00:17:48,734 Now, it's up to the ICE Agent to decide if he wants to come 361 00:17:48,734 --> 00:17:50,870 down and talk to you or... 362 00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:52,538 - Do you check for documentation? 363 00:17:52,538 --> 00:17:54,040 - No. 364 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,474 - Do you ask if they are an illegal immigrant? 365 00:17:55,474 --> 00:17:55,942 - No. We do not. 366 00:17:55,942 --> 00:17:58,277 - Are you required by law to ask that question? 367 00:17:58,277 --> 00:18:03,582 - No. We're required by law to ask them are they, 368 00:18:03,582 --> 00:18:06,385 where they were born. What's their birth place. 369 00:18:06,385 --> 00:18:08,387 - You are required by law. State law? 370 00:18:08,387 --> 00:18:10,423 - Yes. State law. 371 00:18:10,423 --> 00:18:12,658 That's a state law to ask them where were you born. 372 00:18:12,658 --> 00:18:15,294 What's your origin nation. 373 00:18:15,294 --> 00:18:17,163 - Sorry, just because I do think this is worth talking 374 00:18:17,163 --> 00:18:19,131 about, because there's so much yelling about immigration, 375 00:18:19,131 --> 00:18:21,834 and this really is the kind of point in which some of the 376 00:18:21,834 --> 00:18:24,570 interactions between law enforcement and immigrants 377 00:18:24,570 --> 00:18:26,606 happen, so bear with me. 378 00:18:26,606 --> 00:18:30,977 Are you required by law to then report to the ICE officers that 379 00:18:30,977 --> 00:18:33,346 this person was born outside the United States. 380 00:18:33,346 --> 00:18:34,981 - Yes. - You are. By State law. 381 00:18:34,981 --> 00:18:36,515 - Yes. By state law. 382 00:18:36,515 --> 00:18:38,150 - And that's the new law that just passed. 383 00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:38,551 - That's not the new law. - That's been existing law. 384 00:18:38,551 --> 00:18:41,387 - That's been existing for years. 385 00:18:41,387 --> 00:18:44,357 - The new law required you, tried to require you 386 00:18:44,357 --> 00:18:45,725 to do what then? 387 00:18:45,725 --> 00:18:47,960 - To hold. - To hold. 388 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:49,929 In that circumstance where you ask and this person says 389 00:18:49,929 --> 00:18:52,098 they're from Paris, France, the new law was going to say, 390 00:18:52,098 --> 00:18:54,066 well you've got to hold onto them. 391 00:18:54,066 --> 00:18:56,535 - Well what we would do in that case, 392 00:18:56,535 --> 00:18:58,671 is we would call ICE, ICE would say yeah, 393 00:18:58,671 --> 00:19:00,906 I think we are interested in Eric, 394 00:19:00,906 --> 00:19:04,443 so would you hang onto him for 48 hours? 395 00:19:05,878 --> 00:19:09,749 Now, if you made your bond, ICE would still want us to hold you 396 00:19:09,749 --> 00:19:12,752 for an additional 48 hours. 397 00:19:12,752 --> 00:19:14,687 And that's where we kind of... 398 00:19:14,687 --> 00:19:17,723 - That's where you said no. - We said no. 399 00:19:17,723 --> 00:19:20,092 And we asked for the County opinion, 400 00:19:20,092 --> 00:19:22,094 because the United States Constitution says that you 401 00:19:22,094 --> 00:19:25,798 can't hold anyone in a jail without probable cause, 402 00:19:25,798 --> 00:19:28,768 without a warrant, and ICE has neither. 403 00:19:30,403 --> 00:19:34,607 They don't have a warrant, it's just a request. So-- 404 00:19:34,607 --> 00:19:37,309 - ICE raids, do you all assist with raids by ICE? 405 00:19:37,309 --> 00:19:39,145 - No sir. - You do not. 406 00:19:39,145 --> 00:19:40,680 - No sir, we do not. 407 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,548 - Because in some areas, I don't know about Tennessee, 408 00:19:42,548 --> 00:19:43,849 some areas of the country, local law enforcement does 409 00:19:43,849 --> 00:19:45,384 participate in these raids. 410 00:19:45,384 --> 00:19:47,820 - And I think there are some areas in Tennessee that will 411 00:19:47,820 --> 00:19:51,924 assist ICE on raids, but the Shelby County Sheriff's Office, 412 00:19:53,025 --> 00:19:54,593 nor the Memphis Police Department, 413 00:19:54,593 --> 00:19:56,429 we don't assist. - And that's a policy decision 414 00:19:56,429 --> 00:19:58,064 you've made-- - Yes sir. 415 00:19:58,064 --> 00:20:00,132 - and continue I guess in your, and why? 416 00:20:00,132 --> 00:20:02,735 - Well, you have to consider, we're trying to solve crime, 417 00:20:02,735 --> 00:20:05,071 we're trying to build bridges in the community, 418 00:20:06,372 --> 00:20:09,375 so if we go into the community, our detectives go into the 419 00:20:09,375 --> 00:20:11,510 community trying to solve a murder, 420 00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:15,147 for instance, are the immigrants, 421 00:20:15,147 --> 00:20:17,783 or is that population going to talk to us, 422 00:20:17,783 --> 00:20:20,152 or do they think we're there on an ICE raid, 423 00:20:20,152 --> 00:20:24,256 you know, so it's just, it's so difficult for us to solve these 424 00:20:26,592 --> 00:20:28,828 crimes, and we're trying to build bridges, 425 00:20:28,828 --> 00:20:31,497 we're not trying to tear them down. 426 00:20:31,497 --> 00:20:34,133 I have no problem with ICE, I mean ICE... 427 00:20:34,133 --> 00:20:37,169 you know, ICE is ICE, they do what they do. 428 00:20:39,638 --> 00:20:44,176 But I think that if the Federal Government would like to see 429 00:20:44,176 --> 00:20:47,079 that as a law, then they should pass something. 430 00:20:47,079 --> 00:20:49,949 You notice nothing has ever come out of Washington 431 00:20:51,050 --> 00:20:52,885 where it was a law. 432 00:20:52,885 --> 00:20:55,387 It's all just been requests. 433 00:20:55,387 --> 00:20:58,357 - You, again, we noted newly-elected sheriff, 434 00:20:58,357 --> 00:21:00,392 but you've been involved with law enforcement for... 435 00:21:00,392 --> 00:21:02,194 a long time. 436 00:21:02,194 --> 00:21:03,696 - Thirty eight years I've been in the Shelby County 437 00:21:03,696 --> 00:21:05,664 - 38. - Sheriff's Office. 438 00:21:05,664 --> 00:21:09,468 - Do you see a, I mean right now in the national debate 439 00:21:09,468 --> 00:21:12,304 there are folks, President Trump included, 440 00:21:12,304 --> 00:21:15,774 who imply or cite that there's an almost disproportionate 441 00:21:15,774 --> 00:21:18,344 amount of crime that comes from illegal immigrants. 442 00:21:18,344 --> 00:21:20,246 Is that your experience? 443 00:21:20,246 --> 00:21:23,983 Do you see a disproportionate, or a high rate of crime locally 444 00:21:23,983 --> 00:21:25,818 among illegal immigrants? 445 00:21:25,818 --> 00:21:28,020 - No. No we don't see it. 446 00:21:29,855 --> 00:21:32,691 I know, I've heard the President say that, 447 00:21:32,691 --> 00:21:34,627 but we don't see it here in Shelby County, no sir. 448 00:21:34,627 --> 00:21:37,129 - Five minutes left. Bill. 449 00:21:37,129 --> 00:21:40,299 - Alright, and Sheriff, you talked about what the 450 00:21:40,299 --> 00:21:43,435 sheriff's department has to do, it seems to me as if you and 451 00:21:43,435 --> 00:21:46,405 Director Rawlings, who has made similar statements, 452 00:21:46,405 --> 00:21:49,375 that your position is whatever the laws are regarding 453 00:21:49,375 --> 00:21:54,547 immigration, that's fine, but we have priorities here that 454 00:21:56,081 --> 00:21:58,450 our law enforcement agencies have to do, 455 00:21:59,818 --> 00:22:02,121 and our resources have to go toward that. 456 00:22:02,121 --> 00:22:04,190 Is that an accurate assessment of? 457 00:22:04,190 --> 00:22:06,725 - That is Bill, I mean very much so. 458 00:22:08,060 --> 00:22:11,430 I wish I had another 500 deputies, 459 00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:13,966 you know, to where I could do more things, 460 00:22:13,966 --> 00:22:16,202 but our resources now, we're a full-service law enforcement 461 00:22:16,202 --> 00:22:20,673 agency, our resources are stretched to the limits now. 462 00:22:22,074 --> 00:22:25,878 You know we have over 30,000 warrants on just citizens of 463 00:22:25,878 --> 00:22:30,616 Shelby County that our fugitive division is out 7 days a week, 464 00:22:30,616 --> 00:22:33,519 24 hours a day out looking for people, 465 00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:37,489 and so, I mean to task us with that without any Federal 466 00:22:37,489 --> 00:22:41,760 funding, without any, really any guidance from the Federal 467 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,931 Government, and you're asking us to what I think is probably, 468 00:22:48,267 --> 00:22:51,904 they will, the constitution will not even allow us to do 469 00:22:51,904 --> 00:22:53,973 48 hour holds anymore. 470 00:22:53,973 --> 00:22:57,309 For police investigation, but yet you want me to take an 471 00:22:57,309 --> 00:23:01,480 immigrant because an ICE agent says hold him, 472 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,382 I might be interested in him. 473 00:23:03,382 --> 00:23:06,952 And that's another thing, that ICE agent may or may not come 474 00:23:06,952 --> 00:23:09,088 and get that person. 475 00:23:09,088 --> 00:23:12,758 But you're asking me to hold him for 48 hours, 476 00:23:12,758 --> 00:23:15,995 just till you decide if you want to come get him or not. 477 00:23:16,662 --> 00:23:19,832 - And if the agents do come to talk to that person, 478 00:23:19,832 --> 00:23:22,868 they're not there on a probable cause basis-- 479 00:23:22,868 --> 00:23:24,470 - No they're not. 480 00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:27,139 - Because they have met some set of standard for holding 481 00:23:27,139 --> 00:23:30,142 someone, they're there in essence to find out if there is 482 00:23:30,142 --> 00:23:33,112 an issue that they might be interested in. 483 00:23:33,112 --> 00:23:36,081 - That's correct, and even the, the request is not even signed 484 00:23:36,081 --> 00:23:38,050 by a judge. 485 00:23:38,050 --> 00:23:41,854 I mean the request is signed by a supervisor in the office, 486 00:23:43,522 --> 00:23:45,924 so I just think that there's a lot of legal questions and 487 00:23:45,924 --> 00:23:47,660 things that need to be cleaned up, 488 00:23:47,660 --> 00:23:49,695 if you will. 489 00:23:49,695 --> 00:23:52,298 If you want the local agencies to do it, 490 00:23:52,298 --> 00:23:55,301 I'm not trying to get Shelby County sued, 491 00:23:56,869 --> 00:24:00,372 or the taxpayers to have to pay out some huge lawsuit because 492 00:24:00,372 --> 00:24:02,942 we'd illegally held someone. 493 00:24:02,942 --> 00:24:05,778 I think it will wash out eventually. 494 00:24:05,778 --> 00:24:07,846 The Attorneys General, I've talked to, 495 00:24:07,846 --> 00:24:11,183 well, when Mr. Sessions was the Attorney General, 496 00:24:11,183 --> 00:24:13,652 and even Mr. Whitaker, who now is no longer, 497 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,490 they visited Memphis when Mr. Whitaker was here. 498 00:24:18,490 --> 00:24:22,361 He told us in a group setting of West Tennessee law 499 00:24:22,361 --> 00:24:27,199 enforcement parties, he realized that we were not 500 00:24:27,199 --> 00:24:30,102 going out looking for immigrants, 501 00:24:30,102 --> 00:24:33,038 and he said that he was ok with it, so. 502 00:24:33,038 --> 00:24:35,407 - Whitaker being the Acting Attorney General-- 503 00:24:35,407 --> 00:24:37,276 - He was the acting Attorney General, yes. 504 00:24:37,276 --> 00:24:39,345 - We have a minute and a half left-- 505 00:24:39,345 --> 00:24:41,113 - Sure. - I have about 50 questions-- 506 00:24:41,113 --> 00:24:43,415 - [chuckles] Well you'll have to invite me back. 507 00:24:43,415 --> 00:24:45,017 - Yeah, we would love to have you back, 508 00:24:45,017 --> 00:24:46,819 because this has been a really good conversation. 509 00:24:46,819 --> 00:24:48,821 The other, you talk about the jail, 510 00:24:48,821 --> 00:24:51,557 what is the jail population give-or-take right now, 511 00:24:51,557 --> 00:24:54,460 and are you concerned about the size of the jail population. 512 00:24:54,460 --> 00:24:56,362 201 Poplar, let's focus on that, 513 00:24:56,362 --> 00:24:57,996 what people think of as 'the jail' even though there are 514 00:24:57,996 --> 00:24:59,999 these other facilities. 515 00:24:59,999 --> 00:25:02,634 And there have been times when it's gotten so big that 516 00:25:04,269 --> 00:25:04,903 there are problems that come from having 517 00:25:04,903 --> 00:25:06,839 too many people in that. 518 00:25:06,839 --> 00:25:08,774 - Sure, we're not going to call it the jail, we're going to call 519 00:25:08,774 --> 00:25:11,377 it the Walter Bailey Criminal Justice Complex [chuckles]-- 520 00:25:11,377 --> 00:25:13,545 - (Eric) Fair enough, fair enough. 521 00:25:13,545 --> 00:25:17,683 - Yes, we're usually housing about 26-2700 inmates. 522 00:25:17,683 --> 00:25:20,386 Now, of course we're concerned about the population, 523 00:25:20,386 --> 00:25:22,621 I have a jail population manager, 524 00:25:22,621 --> 00:25:24,656 we're doing all we... 525 00:25:24,656 --> 00:25:28,093 we receive grants from different organizations, 526 00:25:29,528 --> 00:25:32,131 foundations, trying to figure out a way how to get people 527 00:25:32,131 --> 00:25:34,366 out of jail. 528 00:25:34,366 --> 00:25:36,068 Another thing that we haven't touched on is 529 00:25:36,068 --> 00:25:37,970 the mental health issue. 530 00:25:37,970 --> 00:25:40,272 We have a mental health crisis here in Shelby County, 531 00:25:40,272 --> 00:25:42,641 and all across the nation, we're not, 532 00:25:42,641 --> 00:25:44,910 Shelby County is not exclusive to that. 533 00:25:44,910 --> 00:25:47,312 - Do you have the resources you need, with just 10 seconds left, 534 00:25:47,312 --> 00:25:48,881 for mental health and that population? 535 00:25:48,881 --> 00:25:50,416 - No. I don't. 536 00:25:50,416 --> 00:25:52,251 I don't have the beds, I don't have any places to take these 537 00:25:52,251 --> 00:25:55,988 people that should not be in the Walter Bailey Criminal 538 00:25:55,988 --> 00:25:57,956 Justice Complex. 539 00:25:57,956 --> 00:25:59,625 - Alright, again, we will have you back, 540 00:25:59,625 --> 00:26:01,827 because the 30,000 warrants you mentioned, 541 00:26:01,827 --> 00:26:03,495 there's so many things that I wasn't able to get to, 542 00:26:03,495 --> 00:26:04,163 but thank you for being here-- 543 00:26:04,163 --> 00:26:05,798 - Sure, thank you for having me. 544 00:26:05,798 --> 00:26:07,566 - and thank you Bill, and thank you for joining us, 545 00:26:07,566 --> 00:26:09,668 join us again, next week. 546 00:26:09,668 --> 00:26:12,671 [dramatic orchestral music] 547 00:26:26,418 --> 00:26:28,420 [acoustic guitar chords]