>> female announcer: This is a
production of WKNO, Memphis.
Production funding for "Behind
the Headlines" is made possible
in part by..
>> Barnes: With the election
just a few days away, a look at
two of the more contentious
issues on the ballot, the local
gas tax, and the new school
boards tonight on "Behind the
Headlines."
>> (instrumental music)
♪♪♪
♪♪♪
>> Barnes: I'm Eric Barnes,
publisher of the Memphis Daily
News.
Thanks for joining us.
We'll look tonight first at the
gas tax with two people involved
behind the gas tax to some
extent.
And then later in the show we'll
have a couple people -- one from
the new Germantown school board
and the Unified School Board.
But we start tonight with John
Vergos -- Board Member, MATA,
former city councilman.
Thank you for being here.
>> Vergos: Good evening.
>> Barnes: Also, Bill Dries --
reporter with Memphis Daily
News.
And Edmund Ford, Jr. -- City
councilman who I believe
originally proposed this gas
tax.
Let me start with you,
Councilman Ford.
Why a gas tax?
>> Ford: When you look at MATA
and 80% of those individuals who
use public transportation to go
to work or to try to find work,
there's a lot of places that we
can make our public
transportation better.
The city council has taken some
of this funding over time to
where, in turn, MATA has had to
cut it's services by five or
more percent.
You have over 40,000 people that
use the bus every single day.
And out of that 40,000 -- 32,000
of them are looking for work or
are going to work.
That's about 5% of our
population.
And you have about 84% of the
jobs in Memphis that take an
hour or longer to get there.
And those individuals that may
not have the physical means to
drive or they just may want to
not necessarily drive -- We
should have those means just
like St. Louis and like Atlanta
so that we can have as best
public transportation as
possible.
The Brookings Institute actually
had Memphis in the worst 30 in
public transportation.
Two other cities in the state,
Knoxville and Chattanooga, made
number three and five
respectively in worst public
transportation.
If we could actually look at a
designated funding source for
MATA, not only would it be good
for Memphis, it would be good
for employment and all those
other things.
>> Barnes: Let me bring you in
here.
You have been over the years,
John, a critic of MATA -- not of
public transportation I think,
if I can represent your views,
but of the way in which MATA
spent money.
Where do you stand on this gas
tax and what assurances do you
have that the money will be
spent wisely?
>> Vergos: I've been critical of
MATA for one reason and one
specific reason only and that's
been the type of routes that
MATA has run historically.
I had thought that they were
convoluted, were not simple,
were not direct.
MATA is changing that.
We have instituted a short-term
transportation that has
revolutionized the routing
system to a much more direct
east-west, north-south -- good
system which will make broader
coverage, less wait time, less
transfer time for the city of
Memphis.
And we can't really achieve that
goal because we don't have a
dedicated funding source and
this additional $3 million can
help over the hump.
>> Barnes: And they're -- just
on the basic math level, the
fees you pay, the fares -- That
doesn't cover the transportation
costs.
>> Vergos: No, it doesn't cover
that at all.
And I will say this about MATA.
You said I had been a critic.
I think that MATA does a good
job with putting buses on the
road, getting people on those
buses, getting people
transported to and from with in
the confines of what they can do
with the financial system and
the financial bind that they
operate under.
>> Barnes: Bill?
>> Dries: Councilman Ford, by
your estimate I believe this one
cent local gas tax, if the
voters approve, will raise three
to six million dollars annually.
Obviously, that's not enough to
cure all of the problems or
expand to all of the areas that
MATA would like to expand to.
But what can it give us a start
on in terms of having that
annual reoccurring revenue from
MATA?
>> Ford: Well first of all, we
could look at more bus routes --
Correct, John?
And we could look at other ways
that people could be more
accessible to MATA.
When you look at one cent and
from a fiscal perspective, gas
will fluctuate -- maybe $2,
maybe $4.
But at the end of the day, one
cent on an average gallon of gas
-- and I appreciate you giving
me this dime.
This is the prop that I want to
use.
The average person would only
spend this much a week if this
gas tax passes.
It would be a dime -- about one
and a half, two cents a day.
I have full confidence that the
MATA board will look at this and
I already know that on their
website they have a long list of
the things that they would do to
promote and to enhance public
transportation.
>> Barnes: To some extent, you
talked I think before the show
when we were talking, John,
about making MATA a system of
choice.
And it's maybe not there in the
sense yet of, you know, you
don't have a lot of people
abandoning their cars for MATA.
The perception, at least, is
it's more people who really
don't have another option.
I mean, is there an argument to
be made that it doesn't take a
cent for MATA?
You need a ten cent tax.
You need a whole lot more money
because you've got to build a
system that covers enough area,
has enough routes, has enough
frequency to draw not just
40,000 people in but a whole lot
more than that.
>> Vergos: I don't know that it
is as expensive as you say that
it is.
I think MATA's got two goals.
Number one -- We have to serve
our base because those are the
people that need it everyday.
And we also have to move to more
choice routers because I think
that that is good for the city
for the employment from an
energy point of view, from an
environmental point of view,
etcetera.
But I do want to talk about
specifically what MATA would
like to do with these dollars.
First, they want to upgrade
eight key quarter service routes
which many people see a lot of
empty buses but on these routes,
the poplar bus, the Elvis
Presley bus, etcetera.
Those buses are full.
They want to increase the
frequency.
They also want to add more
drivers from MATA Plus to make
it for people with disabilities
-- make the city much more
accessible for them.
They do want to replace a lot of
aging bus shelters which people
need if you're going to try to
get more people on the bus.
They would like to also add
another line to the downtown
trolley -- another bus to make
it more accessible which believe
it or not, it is wildly popular
and wildly successful.
So those are just some of the
things that MATA can do.
And just to comment about what
Councilman Ford said about the
penny.
Gas does go up and down.
It varies.
And people gripe about it from
$4, to $2, to $3.10, back down.
But it just surprises me that
the minute you decide to put one
a penny a gallon of tax on it,
people just go absolutely crazy.
We're in such an anti-tax mode
and this is such a simple, yet
beneficial.
>> Barnes: And part of that way
people go crazy is that they
feel like -- Well, you're asking
for that one cent tax for MATA
but it ends up going to X, Y,
and Z.
It goes to something else.
So what assurances do you give
to people who are voting on this
that the one cent that you pay
at the pump will go directly to
buses, trolleys, and the MATA
system?
>> Vergos: I think Councilman
Ford can probably answer that
question because he was one of
those that sponsored the
legislation.
>> Ford: First thing -- by state
law, it must go to public
transportation.
It can't go to a general fund.
It can't go to any other
services beside public
transportation.
Two -- We can't ask for more
than one penny on one particular
referendum.
So if this does pass, we can't
levy five cents.
We can't levy ten cents.
We can only levy one penny and
that penny has to go to public
transportation.
And the city council will
determine after that where the
money will go in that realm of
MATA.
>> Dries: MATA had a BRT -- a
bus direct route on Poplar that
it tried and it was taken out of
service after a year, John.
And there was some talk on the
MATA board about that it wasn't
adequately promoted.
With the gas tax revenue coming
in, is that going to change more
or less, do you think?
>> Vergos: We had a lot of
discussions about that.
There were two issues that we
felt did not happen.
Number one -- We did not promote
it as well as we could and that
does cost a little bit of money.
Number two -- Chooch Pickard,
who's on the board, was upset
because it wasn't called the
Poplar Avenue bus.
They called it the Number 22.
And those numbers don't mean
anything to people.
And part of our short-term
transportation plan is to start
calling routes by the streets on
which they run.
The Poplar bus will be called
the Poplar bus.
The Bellevue bus will be called
the Bellevue bus.
And I'd like to make one comment
about public transportation.
This has always been my vision
if we can move to a simpler,
more efficient system is that we
declare May 1, 2013 Memphis Bus
Rider Month -- the beginning of
it.
In the mean time, we go to the
public.
And we go to churches, community
centers, and educate them on how
they can run the best.
We go to the Chamber of
Commerce.
We go to City Hall.
And on May 1 of that year,
whatever the year is, we lock
City Hall parking garages down
and we have people on the street
directing people how to use the
bus.
And I really, truly believe it
is a civic venture that Memphis
is small enough, compact enough,
laid out in such a way that we
could really change the dynamics
of people riding the bus.
Let them bring their cups of
coffee on the bus.
Let them do wi-fi.
Let them use their cell phone.
Let them get work done.
And I really do think a city
that can get people out of the
cars and on the bus and in a
substantial way would be a city
that will be looked upon as a
progressive city.
And it's also such a minimum.
We're not talking about subways,
monorails.
We're talking about an efficient
bus system and that requires
such a little amount of capital
improvement.
I think it's truly doable for a
city of Memphis' size.
>> Barnes: Let me ask one more
thing.
You mentioned wildly successful.
I think you were talking about
the trolley system.
I mean, sometimes you hear
critics say it's just a tourist
attraction.
It's not.
It's not really a part of public
transportation.
It's just tourist.
Is that not the case?
Is that a misperception by some
folks?
>> Vergos: We've worked a lot
harder on making the buses to be
spaced more frequently and to
run instead of having five buses
every one minute and then having
to wait.
We've worked very hard to have
the buses spaced properly.
And Downtown Memphis is a very
linear Downtown.
From one end to the other is a
couple of miles.
And so it is when you're having
20 plus thousand of people that
live downtown, it actually is a
mode of transportation for the
people that work Downtown.
>> Barnes: You know, proponents
would say that once Bass Pro
comes in -- Whenever you think
about that project, it
eventually comes.
There's a whole lot more going
on the north end.
There's already a tremendous --
You go to a Trolley Night down
on South Main and it's just
remarkable when you look at
where Downtown was before
compared to where it is now.
Alright -- Well, thank you both.
Election day is just right
around the corner.
Early voting is going on right
now.
We appreciate your time.
We appreciate you being here.
We will be right back with two
people involved in the municipal
schools, the unified school
system.
Please stay tuned.
We'll be right back.
>> (instrumental music)
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♪♪♪
>> Barnes: We move now to a
conversation about the schools.
And we are joined by Ken Hoover
who is running unopposed I
should say for the Germantown
Municipal School District.
Thanks for being here.
>> Hoover: Thanks for having me.
>> Barnes: Also, Chris Caldwell
from the now Shelby County Board
of Education, the Unified School
District as some folks call it.
Thank you for being here.
You just went through an
election some weeks ago -- a
month ago.
Also Eleanor Boudreau from WKNO
FM.
Thank you for being here.
And Bill Dries -- still here
with us.
It is election time and to some
extent, that's why we had you
here.
But it's a suspense's election
for you.
We can congratulate you in
advance.
You are running unopposed.
What is next?
There are so many hypotheticals
so I'll try not to frame my
questions with too many "ifs'
and, you know, "ifs" and "ifs."
You're running for the
Germantown Municipal School
Board.
And yet at the same time, you've
got a federal case ruling
questions of whether these
school districts will be
allowed, what shape they'll
have.
What do you do from day one of
when you are elected with all
those questions hanging over
your head?
>> Hoover: The law of the land
is that we can form a municipal
school district.
We can take certain steps
towards the formation of a
municipal school district that
would culminate the same day
that the consolidation occurs or
shortly after consolidation next
August.
So yes, there is a federal court
case challenging the law of the
land but the law is the law
today.
So until Hardy Mays rules that
something is wrong with the law,
we will follow what's been
outlined.
So the election is November 6.
We'll be sworn in December 1.
And then we've got some major
tasks to tackle quickly.
>> Barnes: What do you do now,
Chris Caldwell?
You're right now in charge of
these schools.
You're planning to have those
schools under your umbrella but
you've got a guy sitting next to
you who's running to -- and
nothing personal -- but to take
it away from you all.
How do you all, your planning
process -- Is it two tracks at
this point?
That you're on the one hand,
planning for maybe Germantown
and the other municipalities
will be a part of it or they
wont?
How much does that cause trouble
for you all?
>> Caldwell: Well, I think the
first responsibility we have is
to make sure there's a school
district in place, teachers in
the classrooms so that we can
accommodate an entire district.
So if we make those plans, I
think, and the municipalities
get their districts -- I think
that's an easier scenario to
change than if we're planning on
them having their own school
districts and that doesn't
happen.
So we're following the TPC plan
and making sure that schools are
going to open on time because
that's really our responsibility
-- is to manage the entire
district until we see that the
district is composed of a
different set of kids.
>> Barnes: Eleanor?
>> Boudreau: Yeah -- I mean, you
said you're following the TPC
plan but that is sort of come in
to this sales tax referendum.
You know, there's a lot of
people who want more definitive
votes from the school board.
So how do you think that's
going?
>> Caldwell: Well, I don't think
those things are too mutually
exclusive.
One of the recommendations of
the TPC plan was for us to look
for other sources of income
because they left us with a $57
million gap because they felt
that's as far as they could cut
without encroaching on the
quality in the classroom.
So in one regard, I think we're
following that.
And at the same time, what I've
been working toward is to having
a more transparent budget.
And as a parent of three Memphis
City School kids, I don't want
to see anybody wasting a dime.
>> Boudreau: But it's a $57
million budget gap if you close
more than 20 schools and
privatize buses and janitorial
staff.
So it's those decisions that
there are members of the
community, including the Mayor
of Shelby County, Mark Luttrell,
who wants to see those decisions
made before the sales tax.
And do you have a -- How do you
feel about that?
>> Caldwell: I think, you know,
in my mind, the majority of the
board is working to fulfill
those obligations and I think
what you'll see -- We may not
implement every recommendation
to a tee, but we will find
savings.
We will do our best to meet the
gap.
And for instance, let me give
you an example of the 20 schools
closing you mentioned.
We closed Georgia Avenue last
year.
Until you know exactly which
schools have closed, where the
kids are going, what the
programmatic capacity at the
school that were going to, you
don't really know what the
savings are.
In the case of Georgia Avenue,
we had to spend $275,000 a year
extra to bus the kids from one
school to another.
So to make an assumption that
closing 20 schools translates to
$20 million is just a
guesstimate.
So I think we're all committed
to getting to the bottom line
but you can't just go blindly
and just say -- yes, yes, yes.
You have to look at the
documentation and at the true
savings because we're the ones
that are going to have to answer
to this.
And we're responsible for it.
>> Barnes: Bill?
>> Dries: Again, so you take
office December 1 and if there's
no ruling by then or if the
ruling is that the municipal
school districts stand, how far
up the list -- or is it at the
top of the list is picking a
Superintendant?
>> Hoover: I believe that's
probably number one on the list.
The two highest priority tasks
are to hire a superintendant and
to gain access to buildings.
>> Dries: And how much of a
framework is already in place
because I understand that some
of the city leaders in the
different suburban towns and
cities have kind of been
plotting this out tentatively
with the idea that this will
roll in to action after the
election results are certified.
>> Hoover: Well, I think there's
some -- Well, I don't think.
I know there's some work
underway today.
The city staff in Germantown and
the similar circumstance or
similar scenario on the other
municipalities -- The city staff
is doing some leg work.
They've explored office space
that we could lease on a
temporary basis to serve as a
central office.
They've made arrangements for
some search activity.
The idea being that on December
1 when we're sworn in, we will
have a list of qualified
candidates that we could
immediately begin interviewing
immediately after that.
>> Barnes: But one of the big
questions you just mentioned and
we'll come back to it with both
of us is the buildings and that
whole question.
And it's a question one of how
can they be transferred, how
they'd be transferred, the debt
service.
Is that being fairly distributed
among the county, the various
municipalities?
Are there conversations underway
that you're aware of with city
leaders in Germantown who are
trying to negotiate some plan to
get those buildings or is it
waiting on you all to go in to
office?
>> Hoover: I think the more
accurate answer would be that
the way that we would all like
to see this happen -- and when I
say all, I think including the
Shelby County Board of
Education.
The way we would all like to see
this happen is a negotiated
settlement, an agreement, a
contract that we sign between,
in our case the Germantown
School District and the Shelby
County School District.
There are other ways that it
could happen but a negotiated
agreement is the preferred path.
The only body that can engage in
the other side of that agreement
is the Germantown Board of
Education.
The city of Germantown can't
sign an agreement for buildings.
>> Barnes: And the other way, as
you talked about -- litigation
and legislation.
And you all talked to
legislatures about pushing a
bill that would clarify how
those buildings will be
transferred?
>> Hoover: I think the stance of
the legislature and, in
particular, the name sake of
Norris Todd -- I think their
stance would be we've laid a
framework.
We've put in place a path that
can be followed.
You guys work together, follow
that path, work it out.
Please don't come back to
Nashville to settle this.
>> Barnes: And your take from
your seat -- the buildings.
Is that something that you guys
have been able to talk about as
a school board or have you even
gotten to that item in any
depth?
>> Caldwell: Yes, we have a
facilities committee that just
came up with some policies.
I think the main concern is our
responsibility to the children.
And as Ken mentioned, I think a
negotiated agreement is the best
thing whether that includes
transferring the title.
The obligation of our school
board is to educate the kids
that are in Shelby County
Schools -- the school district.
If that does not include kids in
the municipalities for a few
years then, naturally, they need
the buildings.
But what happens if the cost and
the expense of running a
municipality -- a municipal
school district is much greater
than they anticipated?
So they give up.
Where do those kids -- What do
we do?
Do they hand the buildings back
to us?
Or say they're successful and it
displaces kids from
unincorporated areas because if
I'm correct, I'm sure Ken knows
all the numbers exactly.
Almost half the kids in
Germantown that go to school
there don't reside there.
So you push the kids out that
are in the unincorporated areas.
It could be anywhere from 300 to
600 million dollars of new
building construction.
So as a board, we have to look
at all the ramifications of any
decisions we make.
And, you know, I'd like to think
we'll do what's in the best
interests of the kids.
And I don't think, you know,
either of us should do something
that would harm the other
district.
>> Barnes: What is your take?
You made a couple of points
there.
Let's start with the kids that
are now -- go to Germantown
schools but again, are in
unincorporated Shelby County.
Do you foresee those kids
getting pushed out and not
having a school home in
Germantown schools?
>> Hoover: That's a horrible
question to answer.
So the short answer is no, I
don't foresee that.
The only thing that we've ever
asked for is the eight buildings
that are in Germantown and all
of the kids that currently go
there.
Now Chris pointed out that eight
years, ten years, twelve years
from now, the student population
in Germantown may grow.
Our goal is to create a school
district that is second to none
-- the best in Tennessee, one of
the best in the country.
That's our goal.
As Chris said, if we're
successful in that goal, will
that attract more students than
what we have today?
We have about 4,700 public
school students in Germantown
today.
So Chris has got a valid
question.
What happens if our student
population grows significantly
beyond that 4,700 students?
What does that mean?
The student population within
Shelby County has been shifting
fairly dramatically for 40 years
and at a reasonably steady pace
over that whole period of time.
We've built literally dozens of
new schools in the suburbs and
in the city and yet, our public
school student population is
roughly the same as it was in
1973.
So it's not a new problem.
>> Barnes: Last question
probably, from Eleanor.
>> Boudreau: So a lot of the
plans for the municipal school
districts involve you working
with the unified board and also
with the also boards of the
other municipalities and that's
a lot of people -- more than 30
people who don't all meet at the
same time.
So, you know, they have to
decide on money and budgets.
How do you see that going down?
>> Hoover: It's really not going
to be 30 plus 7 or 23.
It's not going to be 37 or 53
people trying to work things
out.
If you want to talk about a
joint services contract for
transportation, or for food
services, or for textbook
purchases, or any place that we
might share a service, the
initial discussions will be
between staff -- staff of our
school district, staff of the
Shelby County school district.
Those staff will bring us a
recommendation.
Do for our part, there will be
five people who vote on it.
For Chris's part, there will be
seven people who vote on it.
We five won't be sitting with
those seven trying to hash this
out.
That will come up from a staff.
And those things will happen
easily where they make great
sense, whether it's a win-win
situation -- It's better for us
and better for the big district.
Those things won't happen so
easily when it's not a no-
brainer, when it isn't less
clear that it's the best way to
go.
And I think that we'll find a
way on those.
I don't foresee that or
anticipate that being an issue.
>> Barnes: Let's get Bill in.
We do have a little bit of time
left.
>> Dries: How attractive do you
think the municipal school
districts are to employees in
the existing two school systems?
Is there going to be an ebb and
flow between the systems?
>> Hoover: Will we be able to
hire people?
>> Dries: Yes.
>> Hoover: I think that's an
interesting question.
One of the tragedies of this
whole exercise, going back to
December of 2010 right up today
with no signs of abatement, is
the uncertainty that it has
created for the people that work
in the two school districts --
that work at Shelby County
Schools and Memphis City
Schools.
And they have specific questions
that today don't have answers.
From the Shelby County School
unified system, there's some
unanswered questions.
The municipal systems -- We
can't answer any questions until
we have a board of education.
So a favorite is -- Are you
going to recognize tenure that I
earned in my home district.
I'll go on record predicting
that the answer for Germantown
will be -- Yes, that we will.
I predict that.
>> Barnes: But is that how you
would vote on it?
>> Hoover: I think the school
board members are told not to
pledge that they will vote a
certain way.
I just predict that that's the
outcome.
There's a lot of unknowns.
>> Barnes: We have a bunch more
questions.
We're going to keep you guys.
We're going to do a web extra.
Please go to WKNO-dot-org.
We'll have another five or so
minutes to answer a few more
questions, ask a few more
questions, get Chris Caldwell
back in.
Thank you all for being here.
Thank you for joining us.
Join us again next week and
also, please go to WKNO-dot-org
for a web extra with more
questions, more answers on the
school situation.
Thanks -- Goodnight.