>> female announcer: This is a

production of WKNO, Memphis.

Production funding for "Behind

the Headlines" is made possible

in part by..

>> Barnes: With the election

just a few days away, a look at

two of the more contentious

issues on the ballot, the local

gas tax, and the new school

boards tonight on "Behind the

Headlines."

>> (instrumental music)

♪♪♪

♪♪♪

>> Barnes: I'm Eric Barnes,

publisher of the Memphis Daily

News.

Thanks for joining us.

We'll look tonight first at the

gas tax with two people involved

behind the gas tax to some

extent.

And then later in the show we'll

have a couple people -- one from

the new Germantown school board

and the Unified School Board.

But we start tonight with John

Vergos -- Board Member, MATA,

former city councilman.

Thank you for being here.

>> Vergos: Good evening.

>> Barnes: Also, Bill Dries --

reporter with Memphis Daily

News.

And Edmund Ford, Jr. -- City

councilman who I believe

originally proposed this gas

tax.

Let me start with you,

Councilman Ford.

Why a gas tax?

>> Ford: When you look at MATA

and 80% of those individuals who

use public transportation to go

to work or to try to find work,

there's a lot of places that we

can make our public

transportation better.

The city council has taken some

of this funding over time to

where, in turn, MATA has had to

cut it's services by five or

more percent.

You have over 40,000 people that

use the bus every single day.

And out of that 40,000 -- 32,000

of them are looking for work or

are going to work.

That's about 5% of our

population.

And you have about 84% of the

jobs in Memphis that take an

hour or longer to get there.

And those individuals that may

not have the physical means to

drive or they just may want to

not necessarily drive -- We

should have those means just

like St. Louis and like Atlanta

so that we can have as best

public transportation as

possible.

The Brookings Institute actually

had Memphis in the worst 30 in

public transportation.

Two other cities in the state,

Knoxville and Chattanooga, made

number three and five

respectively in worst public

transportation.

If we could actually look at a

designated funding source for

MATA, not only would it be good

for Memphis, it would be good

for employment and all those

other things.

>> Barnes: Let me bring you in

here.

You have been over the years,

John, a critic of MATA -- not of

public transportation I think,

if I can represent your views,

but of the way in which MATA

spent money.

Where do you stand on this gas

tax and what assurances do you

have that the money will be

spent wisely?

>> Vergos: I've been critical of

MATA for one reason and one

specific reason only and that's

been the type of routes that

MATA has run historically.

I had thought that they were

convoluted, were not simple,

were not direct.

MATA is changing that.

We have instituted a short-term

transportation that has

revolutionized the routing

system to a much more direct

east-west, north-south -- good

system which will make broader

coverage, less wait time, less

transfer time for the city of

Memphis.

And we can't really achieve that

goal because we don't have a

dedicated funding source and

this additional $3 million can

help over the hump.

>> Barnes: And they're -- just

on the basic math level, the

fees you pay, the fares -- That

doesn't cover the transportation

costs.

>> Vergos: No, it doesn't cover

that at all.

And I will say this about MATA.

You said I had been a critic.

I think that MATA does a good

job with putting buses on the

road, getting people on those

buses, getting people

transported to and from with in

the confines of what they can do

with the financial system and

the financial bind that they

operate under.

>> Barnes: Bill?

>> Dries: Councilman Ford, by

your estimate I believe this one

cent local gas tax, if the

voters approve, will raise three

to six million dollars annually.

Obviously, that's not enough to

cure all of the problems or

expand to all of the areas that

MATA would like to expand to.

But what can it give us a start

on in terms of having that

annual reoccurring revenue from

MATA?

>> Ford: Well first of all, we

could look at more bus routes --

Correct, John?

And we could look at other ways

that people could be more

accessible to MATA.

When you look at one cent and

from a fiscal perspective, gas

will fluctuate -- maybe $2,

maybe $4.

But at the end of the day, one

cent on an average gallon of gas

-- and I appreciate you giving

me this dime.

This is the prop that I want to

use.

The average person would only

spend this much a week if this

gas tax passes.

It would be a dime -- about one

and a half, two cents a day.

I have full confidence that the

MATA board will look at this and

I already know that on their

website they have a long list of

the things that they would do to

promote and to enhance public

transportation.

>> Barnes: To some extent, you

talked I think before the show

when we were talking, John,

about making MATA a system of

choice.

And it's maybe not there in the

sense yet of, you know, you

don't have a lot of people

abandoning their cars for MATA.

The perception, at least, is

it's more people who really

don't have another option.

I mean, is there an argument to

be made that it doesn't take a

cent for MATA?

You need a ten cent tax.

You need a whole lot more money

because you've got to build a

system that covers enough area,

has enough routes, has enough

frequency to draw not just

40,000 people in but a whole lot

more than that.

>> Vergos: I don't know that it

is as expensive as you say that

it is.

I think MATA's got two goals.

Number one -- We have to serve

our base because those are the

people that need it everyday.

And we also have to move to more

choice routers because I think

that that is good for the city

for the employment from an

energy point of view, from an

environmental point of view,

etcetera.

But I do want to talk about

specifically what MATA would

like to do with these dollars.

First, they want to upgrade

eight key quarter service routes

which many people see a lot of

empty buses but on these routes,

the poplar bus, the Elvis

Presley bus, etcetera.

Those buses are full.

They want to increase the

frequency.

They also want to add more

drivers from MATA Plus to make

it for people with disabilities

-- make the city much more

accessible for them.

They do want to replace a lot of

aging bus shelters which people

need if you're going to try to

get more people on the bus.

They would like to also add

another line to the downtown

trolley -- another bus to make

it more accessible which believe

it or not, it is wildly popular

and wildly successful.

So those are just some of the

things that MATA can do.

And just to comment about what

Councilman Ford said about the

penny.

Gas does go up and down.

It varies.

And people gripe about it from

$4, to $2, to $3.10, back down.

But it just surprises me that

the minute you decide to put one

a penny a gallon of tax on it,

people just go absolutely crazy.

We're in such an anti-tax mode

and this is such a simple, yet

beneficial.

>> Barnes: And part of that way

people go crazy is that they

feel like -- Well, you're asking

for that one cent tax for MATA

but it ends up going to X, Y,

and Z.

It goes to something else.

So what assurances do you give

to people who are voting on this

that the one cent that you pay

at the pump will go directly to

buses, trolleys, and the MATA

system?

>> Vergos: I think Councilman

Ford can probably answer that

question because he was one of

those that sponsored the

legislation.

>> Ford: First thing -- by state

law, it must go to public

transportation.

It can't go to a general fund.

It can't go to any other

services beside public

transportation.

Two -- We can't ask for more

than one penny on one particular

referendum.

So if this does pass, we can't

levy five cents.

We can't levy ten cents.

We can only levy one penny and

that penny has to go to public

transportation.

And the city council will

determine after that where the

money will go in that realm of

MATA.

>> Dries: MATA had a BRT -- a

bus direct route on Poplar that

it tried and it was taken out of

service after a year, John.

And there was some talk on the

MATA board about that it wasn't

adequately promoted.

With the gas tax revenue coming

in, is that going to change more

or less, do you think?

>> Vergos: We had a lot of

discussions about that.

There were two issues that we

felt did not happen.

Number one -- We did not promote

it as well as we could and that

does cost a little bit of money.

Number two -- Chooch Pickard,

who's on the board, was upset

because it wasn't called the

Poplar Avenue bus.

They called it the Number 22.

And those numbers don't mean

anything to people.

And part of our short-term

transportation plan is to start

calling routes by the streets on

which they run.

The Poplar bus will be called

the Poplar bus.

The Bellevue bus will be called

the Bellevue bus.

And I'd like to make one comment

about public transportation.

This has always been my vision

if we can move to a simpler,

more efficient system is that we

declare May 1, 2013 Memphis Bus

Rider Month -- the beginning of

it.

In the mean time, we go to the

public.

And we go to churches, community

centers, and educate them on how

they can run the best.

We go to the Chamber of

Commerce.

We go to City Hall.

And on May 1 of that year,

whatever the year is, we lock

City Hall parking garages down

and we have people on the street

directing people how to use the

bus.

And I really, truly believe it

is a civic venture that Memphis

is small enough, compact enough,

laid out in such a way that we

could really change the dynamics

of people riding the bus.

Let them bring their cups of

coffee on the bus.

Let them do wi-fi.

Let them use their cell phone.

Let them get work done.

And I really do think a city

that can get people out of the

cars and on the bus and in a

substantial way would be a city

that will be looked upon as a

progressive city.

And it's also such a minimum.

We're not talking about subways,

monorails.

We're talking about an efficient

bus system and that requires

such a little amount of capital

improvement.

I think it's truly doable for a

city of Memphis' size.

>> Barnes: Let me ask one more

thing.

You mentioned wildly successful.

I think you were talking about

the trolley system.

I mean, sometimes you hear

critics say it's just a tourist

attraction.

It's not.

It's not really a part of public

transportation.

It's just tourist.

Is that not the case?

Is that a misperception by some

folks?

>> Vergos: We've worked a lot

harder on making the buses to be

spaced more frequently and to

run instead of having five buses

every one minute and then having

to wait.

We've worked very hard to have

the buses spaced properly.

And Downtown Memphis is a very

linear Downtown.

From one end to the other is a

couple of miles.

And so it is when you're having

20 plus thousand of people that

live downtown, it actually is a

mode of transportation for the

people that work Downtown.

>> Barnes: You know, proponents

would say that once Bass Pro

comes in -- Whenever you think

about that project, it

eventually comes.

There's a whole lot more going

on the north end.

There's already a tremendous --

You go to a Trolley Night down

on South Main and it's just

remarkable when you look at

where Downtown was before

compared to where it is now.

Alright -- Well, thank you both.

Election day is just right

around the corner.

Early voting is going on right

now.

We appreciate your time.

We appreciate you being here.

We will be right back with two

people involved in the municipal

schools, the unified school

system.

Please stay tuned.

We'll be right back.

>> (instrumental music)

♪♪♪

♪♪♪

>> Barnes: We move now to a

conversation about the schools.

And we are joined by Ken Hoover

who is running unopposed I

should say for the Germantown

Municipal School District.

Thanks for being here.

>> Hoover: Thanks for having me.

>> Barnes: Also, Chris Caldwell

from the now Shelby County Board

of Education, the Unified School

District as some folks call it.

Thank you for being here.

You just went through an

election some weeks ago -- a

month ago.

Also Eleanor Boudreau from WKNO

FM.

Thank you for being here.

And Bill Dries -- still here

with us.

It is election time and to some

extent, that's why we had you

here.

But it's a suspense's election

for you.

We can congratulate you in

advance.

You are running unopposed.

What is next?

There are so many hypotheticals

so I'll try not to frame my

questions with too many "ifs'

and, you know, "ifs" and "ifs."

You're running for the

Germantown Municipal School

Board.

And yet at the same time, you've

got a federal case ruling

questions of whether these

school districts will be

allowed, what shape they'll

have.

What do you do from day one of

when you are elected with all

those questions hanging over

your head?

>> Hoover: The law of the land

is that we can form a municipal

school district.

We can take certain steps

towards the formation of a

municipal school district that

would culminate the same day

that the consolidation occurs or

shortly after consolidation next

August.

So yes, there is a federal court

case challenging the law of the

land but the law is the law

today.

So until Hardy Mays rules that

something is wrong with the law,

we will follow what's been

outlined.

So the election is November 6.

We'll be sworn in December 1.

And then we've got some major

tasks to tackle quickly.

>> Barnes: What do you do now,

Chris Caldwell?

You're right now in charge of

these schools.

You're planning to have those

schools under your umbrella but

you've got a guy sitting next to

you who's running to -- and

nothing personal -- but to take

it away from you all.

How do you all, your planning

process -- Is it two tracks at

this point?

That you're on the one hand,

planning for maybe Germantown

and the other municipalities

will be a part of it or they

wont?

How much does that cause trouble

for you all?

>> Caldwell: Well, I think the

first responsibility we have is

to make sure there's a school

district in place, teachers in

the classrooms so that we can

accommodate an entire district.

So if we make those plans, I

think, and the municipalities

get their districts -- I think

that's an easier scenario to

change than if we're planning on

them having their own school

districts and that doesn't

happen.

So we're following the TPC plan

and making sure that schools are

going to open on time because

that's really our responsibility

-- is to manage the entire

district until we see that the

district is composed of a

different set of kids.

>> Barnes: Eleanor?

>> Boudreau: Yeah -- I mean, you

said you're following the TPC

plan but that is sort of come in

to this sales tax referendum.

You know, there's a lot of

people who want more definitive

votes from the school board.

So how do you think that's

going?

>> Caldwell: Well, I don't think

those things are too mutually

exclusive.

One of the recommendations of

the TPC plan was for us to look

for other sources of income

because they left us with a $57

million gap because they felt

that's as far as they could cut

without encroaching on the

quality in the classroom.

So in one regard, I think we're

following that.

And at the same time, what I've

been working toward is to having

a more transparent budget.

And as a parent of three Memphis

City School kids, I don't want

to see anybody wasting a dime.

>> Boudreau: But it's a $57

million budget gap if you close

more than 20 schools and

privatize buses and janitorial

staff.

So it's those decisions that

there are members of the

community, including the Mayor

of Shelby County, Mark Luttrell,

who wants to see those decisions

made before the sales tax.

And do you have a -- How do you

feel about that?

>> Caldwell: I think, you know,

in my mind, the majority of the

board is working to fulfill

those obligations and I think

what you'll see -- We may not

implement every recommendation

to a tee, but we will find

savings.

We will do our best to meet the

gap.

And for instance, let me give

you an example of the 20 schools

closing you mentioned.

We closed Georgia Avenue last

year.

Until you know exactly which

schools have closed, where the

kids are going, what the

programmatic capacity at the

school that were going to, you

don't really know what the

savings are.

In the case of Georgia Avenue,

we had to spend $275,000 a year

extra to bus the kids from one

school to another.

So to make an assumption that

closing 20 schools translates to

$20 million is just a

guesstimate.

So I think we're all committed

to getting to the bottom line

but you can't just go blindly

and just say -- yes, yes, yes.

You have to look at the

documentation and at the true

savings because we're the ones

that are going to have to answer

to this.

And we're responsible for it.

>> Barnes: Bill?

>> Dries: Again, so you take

office December 1 and if there's

no ruling by then or if the

ruling is that the municipal

school districts stand, how far

up the list -- or is it at the

top of the list is picking a

Superintendant?

>> Hoover: I believe that's

probably number one on the list.

The two highest priority tasks

are to hire a superintendant and

to gain access to buildings.

>> Dries: And how much of a

framework is already in place

because I understand that some

of the city leaders in the

different suburban towns and

cities have kind of been

plotting this out tentatively

with the idea that this will

roll in to action after the

election results are certified.

>> Hoover: Well, I think there's

some -- Well, I don't think.

I know there's some work

underway today.

The city staff in Germantown and

the similar circumstance or

similar scenario on the other

municipalities -- The city staff

is doing some leg work.

They've explored office space

that we could lease on a

temporary basis to serve as a

central office.

They've made arrangements for

some search activity.

The idea being that on December

1 when we're sworn in, we will

have a list of qualified

candidates that we could

immediately begin interviewing

immediately after that.

>> Barnes: But one of the big

questions you just mentioned and

we'll come back to it with both

of us is the buildings and that

whole question.

And it's a question one of how

can they be transferred, how

they'd be transferred, the debt

service.

Is that being fairly distributed

among the county, the various

municipalities?

Are there conversations underway

that you're aware of with city

leaders in Germantown who are

trying to negotiate some plan to

get those buildings or is it

waiting on you all to go in to

office?

>> Hoover: I think the more

accurate answer would be that

the way that we would all like

to see this happen -- and when I

say all, I think including the

Shelby County Board of

Education.

The way we would all like to see

this happen is a negotiated

settlement, an agreement, a

contract that we sign between,

in our case the Germantown

School District and the Shelby

County School District.

There are other ways that it

could happen but a negotiated

agreement is the preferred path.

The only body that can engage in

the other side of that agreement

is the Germantown Board of

Education.

The city of Germantown can't

sign an agreement for buildings.

>> Barnes: And the other way, as

you talked about -- litigation

and legislation.

And you all talked to

legislatures about pushing a

bill that would clarify how

those buildings will be

transferred?

>> Hoover: I think the stance of

the legislature and, in

particular, the name sake of

Norris Todd -- I think their

stance would be we've laid a

framework.

We've put in place a path that

can be followed.

You guys work together, follow

that path, work it out.

Please don't come back to

Nashville to settle this.

>> Barnes: And your take from

your seat -- the buildings.

Is that something that you guys

have been able to talk about as

a school board or have you even

gotten to that item in any

depth?

>> Caldwell: Yes, we have a

facilities committee that just

came up with some policies.

I think the main concern is our

responsibility to the children.

And as Ken mentioned, I think a

negotiated agreement is the best

thing whether that includes

transferring the title.

The obligation of our school

board is to educate the kids

that are in Shelby County

Schools -- the school district.

If that does not include kids in

the municipalities for a few

years then, naturally, they need

the buildings.

But what happens if the cost and

the expense of running a

municipality -- a municipal

school district is much greater

than they anticipated?

So they give up.

Where do those kids -- What do

we do?

Do they hand the buildings back

to us?

Or say they're successful and it

displaces kids from

unincorporated areas because if

I'm correct, I'm sure Ken knows

all the numbers exactly.

Almost half the kids in

Germantown that go to school

there don't reside there.

So you push the kids out that

are in the unincorporated areas.

It could be anywhere from 300 to

600 million dollars of new

building construction.

So as a board, we have to look

at all the ramifications of any

decisions we make.

And, you know, I'd like to think

we'll do what's in the best

interests of the kids.

And I don't think, you know,

either of us should do something

that would harm the other

district.

>> Barnes: What is your take?

You made a couple of points

there.

Let's start with the kids that

are now -- go to Germantown

schools but again, are in

unincorporated Shelby County.

Do you foresee those kids

getting pushed out and not

having a school home in

Germantown schools?

>> Hoover: That's a horrible

question to answer.

So the short answer is no, I

don't foresee that.

The only thing that we've ever

asked for is the eight buildings

that are in Germantown and all

of the kids that currently go

there.

Now Chris pointed out that eight

years, ten years, twelve years

from now, the student population

in Germantown may grow.

Our goal is to create a school

district that is second to none

-- the best in Tennessee, one of

the best in the country.

That's our goal.

As Chris said, if we're

successful in that goal, will

that attract more students than

what we have today?

We have about 4,700 public

school students in Germantown

today.

So Chris has got a valid

question.

What happens if our student

population grows significantly

beyond that 4,700 students?

What does that mean?

The student population within

Shelby County has been shifting

fairly dramatically for 40 years

and at a reasonably steady pace

over that whole period of time.

We've built literally dozens of

new schools in the suburbs and

in the city and yet, our public

school student population is

roughly the same as it was in

1973.

So it's not a new problem.

>> Barnes: Last question

probably, from Eleanor.

>> Boudreau: So a lot of the

plans for the municipal school

districts involve you working

with the unified board and also

with the also boards of the

other municipalities and that's

a lot of people -- more than 30

people who don't all meet at the

same time.

So, you know, they have to

decide on money and budgets.

How do you see that going down?

>> Hoover: It's really not going

to be 30 plus 7 or 23.

It's not going to be 37 or 53

people trying to work things

out.

If you want to talk about a

joint services contract for

transportation, or for food

services, or for textbook

purchases, or any place that we

might share a service, the

initial discussions will be

between staff -- staff of our

school district, staff of the

Shelby County school district.

Those staff will bring us a

recommendation.

Do for our part, there will be

five people who vote on it.

For Chris's part, there will be

seven people who vote on it.

We five won't be sitting with

those seven trying to hash this

out.

That will come up from a staff.

And those things will happen

easily where they make great

sense, whether it's a win-win

situation -- It's better for us

and better for the big district.

Those things won't happen so

easily when it's not a no-

brainer, when it isn't less

clear that it's the best way to

go.

And I think that we'll find a

way on those.

I don't foresee that or

anticipate that being an issue.

>> Barnes: Let's get Bill in.

We do have a little bit of time

left.

>> Dries: How attractive do you

think the municipal school

districts are to employees in

the existing two school systems?

Is there going to be an ebb and

flow between the systems?

>> Hoover: Will we be able to

hire people?

>> Dries: Yes.

>> Hoover: I think that's an

interesting question.

One of the tragedies of this

whole exercise, going back to

December of 2010 right up today

with no signs of abatement, is

the uncertainty that it has

created for the people that work

in the two school districts --

that work at Shelby County

Schools and Memphis City

Schools.

And they have specific questions

that today don't have answers.

From the Shelby County School

unified system, there's some

unanswered questions.

The municipal systems -- We

can't answer any questions until

we have a board of education.

So a favorite is -- Are you

going to recognize tenure that I

earned in my home district.

I'll go on record predicting

that the answer for Germantown

will be -- Yes, that we will.

I predict that.

>> Barnes: But is that how you

would vote on it?

>> Hoover: I think the school

board members are told not to

pledge that they will vote a

certain way.

I just predict that that's the

outcome.

There's a lot of unknowns.

>> Barnes: We have a bunch more

questions.

We're going to keep you guys.

We're going to do a web extra.

Please go to WKNO-dot-org.

We'll have another five or so

minutes to answer a few more

questions, ask a few more

questions, get Chris Caldwell

back in.

Thank you all for being here.

Thank you for joining us.

Join us again next week and

also, please go to WKNO-dot-org

for a web extra with more

questions, more answers on the

school situation.

Thanks -- Goodnight.