WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:02.636  (female announcer)    Production funding    for Behind the Headlines 00:02.636 --> 00:04.471  is made possible in part by.. 00:04.471 --> 00:07.441  (male announcer)    The Bartlett Area    Chamber of Commerce 00:07.441 --> 00:12.479  and its member A2H - engineers,   architects and planners creating 00:12.479 --> 00:15.515  an enhanced quality of life   for our clients and community. 00:15.515 --> 00:19.219  To learn more about   A2H's services and markets, 00:19.219 --> 00:21.221  visit A2H.com. 00:31.331 --> 00:33.600 - The growth in the local beer community tonight 00:33.600 --> 00:35.002 on Behind the Headlines. 00:35.002 --> 00:51.251 [theme music] 00:51.251 --> 00:53.754 I'm Eric Barnes, publisher of The Memphis Daily News. 00:53.754 --> 00:54.888 Thanks for joining us. 00:54.888 --> 00:56.890 I'm joined tonight by Brice Timmons, 00:56.890 --> 00:58.892  co-founder of High   Cotton Brewing Company. 00:58.892 --> 00:59.893  Thanks for being here. 00:59.893 --> 01:00.894 - Thank you. 01:00.894 --> 01:02.896  (Eric)    Drew Barton is co-founder   of Memphis Made Brewing Company. 01:02.896 --> 01:03.897  Thanks for being here. 01:03.897 --> 01:04.898 - Absolutely. 01:04.898 --> 01:07.267  (Eric)    Kevin Eble is managing   partner of Hammer & Ale. 01:07.267 --> 01:09.069  Thanks for being here. 01:09.069 --> 01:11.705  And Madeline Faber, reporter   with The Memphis Daily News. 01:11.705 --> 01:12.706 Thanks for being here. 01:12.706 --> 01:13.974 So, it was funny. 01:13.974 --> 01:15.976 We were talking before the show. 01:15.976 --> 01:17.177 You all were founded in 2013. 01:17.177 --> 01:20.647 And it seems like the beer community just anecdotally in 01:20.647 --> 01:22.649 terms of the number of brewers and just the.. 01:22.649 --> 01:25.485 If you go to restaurants in town or if you go to stores in town, 01:25.485 --> 01:27.754 there is more local beer everywhere. 01:27.754 --> 01:30.958 Obviously Wiseacre has made a lot of news with the possibility 01:30.958 --> 01:33.593 of putting a brewery in the Coliseum. 01:33.593 --> 01:36.029 But why beer for each of you? 01:36.029 --> 01:38.031 Because it's more than a small thing. 01:38.031 --> 01:41.401 I mean, it's a huge commitment both business wise and so on. 01:41.401 --> 01:42.703 And I'll start with you, Drew. 01:42.703 --> 01:43.704 Why beer? 01:43.704 --> 01:45.772 - For me, it all started in college. 01:45.772 --> 01:48.542 I started home brewing when I was in college and I made my 01:48.542 --> 01:49.543 first batch of beer. 01:49.543 --> 01:50.544 It was horrible. 01:50.544 --> 01:52.546 But I absolutely fell in love with the process. 01:52.546 --> 01:56.984 I knew that time, that's what I want to do for the rest 01:56.984 --> 01:58.352 of my life. 01:58.352 --> 02:00.921 I was in engineering school at the time and did not want to be 02:00.921 --> 02:01.922 an engineer. 02:01.922 --> 02:03.924 I didn't want to be stuck behind a desk. 02:03.924 --> 02:05.926 I wanted to make something and get it out to the public. 02:05.926 --> 02:06.927 - Brice, you? 02:06.927 --> 02:07.928 Why beer? 02:07.928 --> 02:09.930 - I fell in love with good beer when I was in the army and I was 02:09.930 --> 02:10.931 stationed in Europe. 02:10.931 --> 02:13.500 And when I came home to Memphis after a long hiatus, 02:13.500 --> 02:16.837 I was really kind of disappointed in the things 02:16.837 --> 02:17.838 weren't offered. 02:17.838 --> 02:22.275 And I got into home brewing for fun and I met my partners. 02:22.275 --> 02:24.845 And one day somebody came along and said, 02:24.845 --> 02:27.347 hey, how would you like to do this for real? 02:27.347 --> 02:28.348 - And Kevin, you're different. 02:28.348 --> 02:31.618 You're not a brewer but you have a restaurant. 02:31.618 --> 02:34.054 Local beers of all types and kinds. 02:34.054 --> 02:35.055 Why that? 02:35.055 --> 02:37.057 You can open lots of different restaurants. 02:37.057 --> 02:39.559 But why one that was so focused on beer and ale? 02:39.559 --> 02:43.096 - My partner and I both have a huge passion for craft beer. 02:43.096 --> 02:45.632 We just like the quality of it. 02:45.632 --> 02:48.835 We started out as, you know, quantity over quality. 02:48.835 --> 02:52.072 And once we decided the quality is much better, 02:52.072 --> 02:54.408 we decided that we wanted to open a business and Memphis 02:54.408 --> 02:56.410 needed something like that when we opened. 02:56.410 --> 02:57.411 - And why? 02:57.411 --> 02:58.979 Am I right that it's growing? 02:58.979 --> 03:00.981 It's really a lot more attention. 03:00.981 --> 03:01.982 Why? 03:01.982 --> 03:03.984 What happened in terms of a shift from.. 03:03.984 --> 03:05.986 And I should say, you know, we invited folks from Ghost River 03:05.986 --> 03:06.987 on and Wiseacre. 03:06.987 --> 03:08.989 Just timing wise, we couldn't get them all on. 03:08.989 --> 03:10.991 And we appreciate you all being here. 03:10.991 --> 03:14.261 Why from your point of view has it seemed to take off? 03:14.261 --> 03:17.831 - I think people really want to focus on a local product. 03:17.831 --> 03:20.534 A lot of times, these guys come in and talk about their beer 03:20.534 --> 03:21.535 at our place. 03:21.535 --> 03:23.537 And people just want to meet the brewers. 03:23.537 --> 03:25.539 They want to know where their stuff is coming from. 03:25.539 --> 03:29.276 And there has been a shift nationally from macro brewery 03:29.276 --> 03:30.277 to microbrewery. 03:30.277 --> 03:33.080 And people really appreciate the hard work and effort that goes 03:33.080 --> 03:35.749 into making good beer. 03:35.749 --> 03:36.750 - The reception you get? 03:36.750 --> 03:38.752 I mean, when you try to go to a restaurant or you go to a store 03:38.752 --> 03:40.754 and say, "Hey, I've got this niche beer." 03:40.754 --> 03:42.756 I mean, when you guys first started, 03:42.756 --> 03:44.758 did they look at you like you were an alien or were they happy 03:44.758 --> 03:48.095 and really wanted you in their store or restaurant? 03:48.095 --> 03:50.931 - I would say that the reception was phenomenal. 03:50.931 --> 03:52.966 The community has been super supportive. 03:52.966 --> 03:54.968 We joked for a long time that, you know, 03:54.968 --> 03:57.104 being a microbrewer was the new being in a band, 03:57.104 --> 04:00.807 except all of the fans, at least in the beginning, 04:00.807 --> 04:02.809 were kind of chubby guys with beards. 04:02.809 --> 04:04.511 It was like being in Rush. 04:04.511 --> 04:05.512 [laughter] 04:05.512 --> 04:06.513 So, but it was a lot of fun. 04:06.513 --> 04:09.583 And we found everybody to be really supportive. 04:09.583 --> 04:14.588 I think that the industry has seen this massive growth 04:16.623 --> 04:20.460 because, you know, America is really kind of, 04:20.460 --> 04:23.864 you know, looking in itself and developing culture for the first 04:23.864 --> 04:24.865 time in its history. 04:24.865 --> 04:28.001 You know, we've been the industrial capitol of the world. 04:28.001 --> 04:30.003 We've been the tech capitol of the world. 04:30.003 --> 04:32.172 Our economy has boomed. 04:32.172 --> 04:36.042 And we've figured out how to make things that are, 04:36.042 --> 04:39.846 you know, bigger, more, faster. 04:39.846 --> 04:42.582 But recently we've started, you know, 04:42.582 --> 04:44.584 in all sorts of industries in food, 04:44.584 --> 04:48.989 in farming, in wine, in spirits and beer. 04:48.989 --> 04:51.558 Everybody is sort of saying, well, 04:51.558 --> 04:55.061 what about just doing it better rather than faster. 04:55.061 --> 04:57.097 And sometimes slower and smaller is better. 04:57.097 --> 04:58.598 Beer is one of those things. 04:58.598 --> 05:00.600 - Drew, I mean, for people who.. 05:00.600 --> 05:03.436 I don't know how to say this without being silly. 05:03.436 --> 05:05.438 But I don't mean it as silly as it sounds. 05:05.438 --> 05:07.507 But people who have not had a beer since maybe they had a beer 05:07.507 --> 05:09.509 that was one of the big national brands. 05:09.509 --> 05:10.510 And that is a particular thing. 05:10.510 --> 05:11.511 Lots of people like it. 05:11.511 --> 05:14.581 But it is very, very different than what you and people 05:14.581 --> 05:15.582 like you do. 05:15.582 --> 05:16.583 I mean, this is the difference. 05:16.583 --> 05:20.320 So, what would you say to those people who maybe had a beer, 05:20.320 --> 05:21.321 used to drink beer? 05:21.321 --> 05:23.323 Maybe they drank beer in college and, 05:23.323 --> 05:25.458 you know, it was all like he was joking or saying. 05:25.458 --> 05:27.460 You know, it as quantity over quality. 05:27.460 --> 05:30.130 What would you say to them about the difference of what you do? 05:30.130 --> 05:33.934 - You know, when people come to our tap room and maybe it might 05:33.934 --> 05:35.936 be a couple or a bunch of friends, 05:35.936 --> 05:38.171 and one of them doesn't particularly like beer, 05:38.171 --> 05:40.173 and they say, "Well, I don't like beer." 05:40.173 --> 05:42.409 Well, you can't blanket say, "I don't like beer." 05:42.409 --> 05:44.411 You just haven't found the right beer for you. 05:44.411 --> 05:46.413 And, you know, there's some people who just aren't going 05:46.413 --> 05:47.414 to like beer. 05:47.414 --> 05:48.415 That might be true. 05:48.415 --> 05:50.850 But there's probably some product out there 05:50.850 --> 05:51.851 that they like. 05:51.851 --> 05:54.287 There's such a variety of flavors in the craft beer 05:54.287 --> 05:57.624 industry that there's probably going to be something they just 05:57.624 --> 06:00.293 didn't even know fit that category of beer. 06:00.293 --> 06:03.029 And when you see a lightbulb light up, 06:03.029 --> 06:04.164 it's a great thing. 06:04.164 --> 06:06.166 - I'll go to Madeline in a second. 06:06.166 --> 06:07.167 It's amazing. 06:07.167 --> 06:09.402 In a given year, how many different beers will you put 06:09.402 --> 06:10.704 out, give or take? 06:10.704 --> 06:12.706 - In a given year, we'll do anywhere 06:12.706 --> 06:14.341 from 15 to 20 different styles. 06:14.341 --> 06:15.342 - Same for High Cotton? 06:15.342 --> 06:16.343 - Yeah, about the same. 06:16.343 --> 06:17.711 We keep ten at any given time. 06:17.711 --> 06:19.713 - That can be dramatically different. 06:19.713 --> 06:22.282 Again, so for people who are used to these kind of handful of 06:22.282 --> 06:26.353 really big brands, that's a totally different thing 06:26.353 --> 06:27.354 in many ways. 06:27.354 --> 06:29.422 - And that category is huge in volume, 06:29.422 --> 06:31.658 but very small in diversity. 06:31.658 --> 06:33.660 And so, we've got a much smaller, 06:33.660 --> 06:37.130 you know, volume-wise but our diversity is much greater. 06:37.130 --> 06:38.431 - Madeline? 06:38.431 --> 06:40.500 - Kevin, from a retail perspective, 06:40.500 --> 06:44.871 how do you think the appetite for beer has grown? 06:44.871 --> 06:47.274 Or whatever the liquid form of appetite is. 06:47.274 --> 06:50.777 Have you noticed that with an increase in breweries, 06:50.777 --> 06:53.313 have more beer drinkers come about? 06:53.313 --> 06:57.484 - Nationally, it's such a huge thing right now with craft beer. 06:57.484 --> 06:59.920 So, people really want to focus on local beer. 06:59.920 --> 07:02.055 So, you know, these guys are putting out a ton of beer. 07:02.055 --> 07:04.090 And people just flock towards it. 07:04.090 --> 07:07.360 I mean, everybody wants the new, fresh thing and that's 07:07.360 --> 07:09.429 interesting with craft beer because there's always 07:09.429 --> 07:10.430 something new. 07:10.430 --> 07:13.867 So, you're always finding new tastes and new styles. 07:13.867 --> 07:16.169 Honestly, the same styles are vastly different 07:16.169 --> 07:17.170 from brewery to brewery. 07:17.170 --> 07:19.506 So, there's a huge demand for it. 07:19.506 --> 07:22.709 And it's gotten busier and busier over the last three 07:22.709 --> 07:26.246 years, especially in Memphis when we're kind of catching up 07:26.246 --> 07:28.315 to a lot of other places in the country. 07:28.315 --> 07:30.317 And it's really a fun time for craft beer right now in Memphis. 07:30.317 --> 07:32.319 - What are some ways that you have changed the lay out or 07:32.319 --> 07:34.321 offerings at Hammer & Ale to reflect changes in demand? 07:34.321 --> 07:38.425 - It's usually, again, just trying to keep it as new and 07:38.425 --> 07:45.432 fresh as possible. 07:45.432 --> 07:48.401 Unfortunately for these guys, they have to make the new thing. 07:48.401 --> 07:49.436 We just have to sell it. 07:49.436 --> 07:53.773 So, it's just trying to keep everything up to trend. 07:53.773 --> 07:56.843 And, you know, lately it's been sour beers have been super huge. 07:56.843 --> 08:00.347 And, you know, there's more of a shift away from Belgium beers, 08:00.347 --> 08:02.349 which were popular a year ago into sour beers. 08:02.349 --> 08:04.651 So, just trying to find what people like and trying to keep 08:04.651 --> 08:06.886 those on tap while not forgetting about things that 08:06.886 --> 08:07.887 people enjoy. 08:07.887 --> 08:09.622 - And is there.. 08:09.622 --> 08:11.624 Let's talk about competition for a second. 08:11.624 --> 08:14.227 There are more breweries now than there were however many 08:14.227 --> 08:15.228 years ago. 08:15.228 --> 08:16.229 Is that a good thing? 08:16.229 --> 08:18.231 And are there more competitors to you, 08:18.231 --> 08:21.334 to Hammer & Ale, out there and is that a good thing? 08:21.334 --> 08:22.335 - Absolutely. 08:22.335 --> 08:24.337 I mean, competition is always better. 08:24.337 --> 08:25.338 It makes us better. 08:25.338 --> 08:26.339 It makes every brewery better. 08:26.339 --> 08:28.742 I mean, there's so many more breweries now than there was ten 08:28.742 --> 08:29.743 years ago. 08:29.743 --> 08:31.745 - From your point of view, I mean, 08:31.745 --> 08:33.747 is it like, you know, some people say, 08:33.747 --> 08:35.749 well, you get all these restaurants and now they're 08:35.749 --> 08:36.750 competing against each other. 08:36.750 --> 08:38.985 Other people would say, hey, if you're at Cooper-Young or you're 08:38.985 --> 08:41.054 in Overton Square and there are a bunch of restaurants there, 08:41.054 --> 08:42.455 that draws more people. 08:42.455 --> 08:43.990 They get more into local food. 08:43.990 --> 08:46.559 Is it the same dynamic from a business point of view 08:46.559 --> 08:47.560 with beer? 08:47.560 --> 08:50.096 - Yes, only it's a national dynamic. 08:50.096 --> 08:53.600 Instead of thinking about the neighborhood drawing more people 08:53.600 --> 08:55.602 because there are most restaurants there, 08:55.602 --> 08:57.604 you need to think about a city drawing more tourism, 08:57.604 --> 09:00.874 more frankly people moving to cities. 09:00.874 --> 09:02.876 You know, one brewery in Memphis.. 09:02.876 --> 09:07.080 And, you know, we were a one brewery town from 2009 to 2013. 09:07.080 --> 09:09.883 No one really talked about Memphis beer back then. 09:09.883 --> 09:12.819 The guys at Ghost River, all good friends of mine, 09:12.819 --> 09:16.423 you know, struggle along and sort of forced everybody 09:16.423 --> 09:17.690 to pay attention. 09:17.690 --> 09:20.360 And then in 2013, we opened. 09:20.360 --> 09:21.795 Drew opened. 09:21.795 --> 09:22.896 Wiseacre opened. 09:22.896 --> 09:26.065 And all of a sudden, the newspapers are paying attention. 09:26.065 --> 09:28.168 The tv media is paying attention. 09:28.168 --> 09:30.370 And we're suddenly finding ourselves with national 09:30.370 --> 09:33.406 publications coming and doing stories about Memphis being in 09:33.406 --> 09:35.675 the top 20 beer cities in the United States 09:35.675 --> 09:36.776 and things like that. 09:36.776 --> 09:38.778 - How much do you sell outside of Memphis? 09:38.778 --> 09:40.780 - We don't sell anything outside of Memphis. 09:40.780 --> 09:42.949 Well, outside of Shelby County. 09:42.949 --> 09:44.017 - Yeah, outside the area. 09:44.017 --> 09:45.018 You, too? 09:45.018 --> 09:46.519 - Not a single drop outside. 09:46.519 --> 09:48.188 - And what does it take? 09:48.188 --> 09:50.190 This is a strange question but bear with me. 09:50.190 --> 09:52.625 I know on a national level, to get into big grocery stores.. 09:52.625 --> 09:54.894 So, for the big soft drink companies and so on, 09:54.894 --> 09:57.797 it's really difficult and kind of.. 09:57.797 --> 10:00.099 It's a much more complicated business than people realize in 10:00.099 --> 10:03.803 terms of big companies buying shelf space and paying to be 10:03.803 --> 10:04.804 at eye level. 10:04.804 --> 10:06.806 There's a reason certain products that sell a lot are at 10:06.806 --> 10:08.808 eye level when you go in the grocery store. 10:08.808 --> 10:09.809 That's not coincidence. 10:09.809 --> 10:11.945 What is it like for you as a local person trying to get into 10:11.945 --> 10:15.281 national kind of chain stores, chain grocery stores? 10:15.281 --> 10:18.418 - Well, for us at Memphis Made and a similar thing 10:18.418 --> 10:20.420 for High Cotton, we both self-distribute our beers. 10:20.420 --> 10:22.422 So, we take the beer out of our cooler, 10:22.422 --> 10:25.024 we put it on our van we take it out to the retailers. 10:25.024 --> 10:28.161 And so, it's a much more personable relationship with 10:28.161 --> 10:29.229 these companies. 10:29.229 --> 10:32.732 A lot of people told us we couldn't get into Whole Foods. 10:32.732 --> 10:34.767 We've got accounts at Whole Foods now. 10:34.767 --> 10:37.003 And it's a lot of paperwork. 10:37.003 --> 10:40.173 You know, it takes a lot of time to make sure that we keep up 10:40.173 --> 10:43.843 with the things they need us to do to be on the shelves. 10:43.843 --> 10:50.183 But these bigger box stores have shown the flexibility to work 10:50.183 --> 10:51.451 with a smaller company. 10:51.451 --> 10:52.452 - Your experience? 10:52.452 --> 10:55.355 - Yeah, so, we recently started releasing the cans. 10:55.355 --> 10:57.357 You know, individually packaged beer. 10:57.357 --> 11:00.460 And everybody said, oh, this is going to be impossible for you 11:00.460 --> 11:01.628 to deal with big retailers. 11:01.628 --> 11:06.232 And some big retailers, national chains have been difficult. 11:06.232 --> 11:09.035 But it's not because they're resistant. 11:09.035 --> 11:11.037 It's because they have an entrenched bureaucracy that you 11:11.037 --> 11:12.038 have to work through. 11:12.038 --> 11:13.039 It just takes time. 11:13.039 --> 11:16.109 But Whole Foods, you know, they have that same sort 11:16.109 --> 11:17.110 of bureaucracy. 11:17.110 --> 11:19.646 There's a national system you have to go through to get any 11:19.646 --> 11:21.147 product on their shelves. 11:21.147 --> 11:24.350 But what we found is that the people making the decisions 11:24.350 --> 11:26.352 there have been, you know, really friendly, 11:26.352 --> 11:27.353 really supportive. 11:27.353 --> 11:29.355 I think we actually have more shelf space at Whole Foods, 11:29.355 --> 11:31.024 us and Wiseacre. 11:31.024 --> 11:33.593 I think we have more shelf space at Whole Foods than any other 11:33.593 --> 11:35.128 craft brand. 11:35.128 --> 11:38.464 - And for you, for people who don't know what a growler is, 11:38.464 --> 11:39.465 describe this. 11:39.465 --> 11:40.466 It's a strange thing. 11:40.466 --> 11:44.270 I mean, I grew up in the Seattle area and I go back and visit. 11:44.270 --> 11:47.106 A friend of mine walks into a bar with this gigantic. 11:47.106 --> 11:50.009 I couldn't figure out what he was carrying. 11:50.009 --> 11:51.844 And I was a dumb person. 11:51.844 --> 11:53.179 I didn't know what that was. 11:53.179 --> 11:54.214 It was a growler. 11:54.214 --> 11:55.214 Talk about that. 11:55.214 --> 11:57.216 - So, growlers are just a good way to get fresh, 11:57.216 --> 11:58.217 draft beer at home. 11:58.217 --> 12:00.420 It's not packaged except in kegs. 12:00.420 --> 12:02.422 So, it's, literally, you know, taken out, 12:02.422 --> 12:04.490 like Drew said, from the cooler to us. 12:04.490 --> 12:06.492 And we pour it on tap into the bottle. 12:06.492 --> 12:08.494 You drink it at home and bring it back. 12:08.494 --> 12:10.496 It's kind of like the old, you know, 12:10.496 --> 12:11.497 the milk thing. 12:11.497 --> 12:13.499 You get it delivered, you drink it, 12:13.499 --> 12:14.500 you leave the bottle. 12:14.500 --> 12:15.501 You use the same bottle. 12:15.501 --> 12:17.503 So, it's a good way to get out and try new things without 12:17.503 --> 12:20.039 having to spend money on a six pack and stuff like that. 12:20.039 --> 12:22.041 So, it's a little bit less than a six pack, 12:22.041 --> 12:23.042 64 ounces. 12:23.042 --> 12:26.913 But, again, it's fresh draft beer that lasts a few days once 12:26.913 --> 12:28.047 you open it. 12:28.047 --> 12:30.683 But it's just a good way to try new things. 12:30.683 --> 12:32.852 And, you know, it's cool. 12:32.852 --> 12:34.020 They're hip. 12:34.020 --> 12:35.021 - Can anyone do that? 12:35.021 --> 12:37.023 I mean, can any bar do a growler? 12:37.023 --> 12:38.024 Or do you have a.. 12:38.024 --> 12:40.026 - We have a special license to do it. 12:40.026 --> 12:42.362 So, we have the ability to sell off premise with growlers and 12:42.362 --> 12:46.766 sell on premise and have draft beer at our bar. 12:46.766 --> 12:49.335 - Drew, you cut your teeth at some established breweries. 12:49.335 --> 12:52.972 Could you speak about how Memphis' local market compares 12:52.972 --> 12:54.307 to some of our peer cities? 12:54.307 --> 12:56.309 - I thought you were talking about my chipped tooth at first. 12:56.309 --> 12:57.310 [laughter] 12:57.310 --> 12:58.311 Yeah, it's.. 12:58.311 --> 12:59.312 I did. 12:59.312 --> 13:01.314 I started brewing in 2005 in Asheville, 13:01.314 --> 13:03.316 North Carolina at French Broad Brewery. 13:03.316 --> 13:08.287 And when I started out there, there were four breweries 13:08.287 --> 13:09.956 at the time. 13:09.956 --> 13:12.458 Bosco's was the only thing in town in Memphis at the time. 13:12.458 --> 13:14.160 Ghost River hadn't opened up yet. 13:14.160 --> 13:18.097 And so, I got to see that industry grow quite a bit. 13:18.097 --> 13:19.499 You know, by the time I left the river, 13:19.499 --> 13:20.333 a dozen breweries.. 13:20.333 --> 13:22.468 I think it's over two dozen breweries in Asheville now. 13:22.468 --> 13:28.708 And so, I mean, I was in on the sort of the front line in 13:28.708 --> 13:32.045 Asheville and certainly the front line here in Memphis. 13:32.045 --> 13:34.814 And so, I could see where the potential can go. 13:34.814 --> 13:37.216 And we've certainly got the customer base for it. 13:37.216 --> 13:40.586 I think this industry move could have happened a long time ago. 13:40.586 --> 13:44.290 It just took a while for all of us to figure it out. 13:44.290 --> 13:48.861 But yeah, there's definitely a lot of growth potential. 13:48.861 --> 13:53.132 - Where do you see beer culture, brewing culture here in town 13:53.132 --> 13:58.838 evolving and how far are we away from reaching peak beer? 13:58.838 --> 14:01.607 - Like saturated market and too many breweries? 14:01.607 --> 14:02.608 It's a tough one. 14:02.608 --> 14:04.010 I don't think.. 14:04.010 --> 14:08.347 The saturation point is very difficult to say when that's 14:08.347 --> 14:09.349 going to happen. 14:09.349 --> 14:11.350 The more breweries that are going to be here, 14:11.350 --> 14:14.353 the more breweries that are going to have to look at selling 14:14.353 --> 14:15.855 their beer outside of here. 14:15.855 --> 14:17.857 There is only a finite number of people, 14:17.857 --> 14:19.859 you know, that can do selling here in town. 14:19.859 --> 14:21.994 But, I mean, as long as your business model is solid and you 14:21.994 --> 14:27.734 make a good product, there's no reason that dozens of breweries 14:27.734 --> 14:28.935 couldn't open in this city. 14:28.935 --> 14:30.436 - Same question for you. 14:30.436 --> 14:31.637 I love this phrase "peak beer". 14:31.637 --> 14:36.809 - This is something that's being around the national brewing 14:36.809 --> 14:37.810 community for a long time. 14:37.810 --> 14:39.612 And I think the answer is no. 14:39.612 --> 14:43.282 Craft beer across the nation is on a continued uptick. 14:43.282 --> 14:47.754 We're on track collectively as an industry to have 20% market 14:47.754 --> 14:50.690 share by the year 2020 on a national level. 14:50.690 --> 14:53.793 Twenty-percent market share is considered something. 14:53.793 --> 14:56.195 You know, five years ago people thought that was impossible. 14:56.195 --> 14:58.364 They thought, oh, craft beer is this niche market. 14:58.364 --> 15:00.366 It will never have more than five percent of the industry. 15:00.366 --> 15:02.368 Then it was never more than ten percent. 15:02.368 --> 15:03.369 We're on track for 20 steadily. 15:03.369 --> 15:06.139 And frankly, it's, you know, the growth 15:06.139 --> 15:07.273 has been almost exponential. 15:07.273 --> 15:09.275 Memphis, however, is uniquely poised to be I think 15:09.275 --> 15:10.276 a national brewing center. 15:10.276 --> 15:12.278 The simple fact is we do have the best water in the United 15:12.278 --> 15:13.279 States, hands down. 15:13.279 --> 15:14.280 It is cheap. 15:14.280 --> 15:15.281 It is abundant. 15:15.281 --> 15:17.283 We are sitting on a major distribution hub. 15:17.283 --> 15:19.285 I mean, we are the nation's distribution hub. 15:19.285 --> 15:24.290 We have inexpensive real estate and a labor market that is 15:32.198 --> 15:35.067 readily trainable and not terribly expensive. 15:35.067 --> 15:39.739 Meanwhile, the craft brewing meccas of Denver, 15:39.739 --> 15:43.376 California, Oregon are all unbelievably expensive 15:43.376 --> 15:44.377 real estate. 15:44.377 --> 15:48.014 They have very expensive labor markets. 15:48.014 --> 15:51.017 They do not have good distribution networks 15:51.017 --> 15:52.251 compared to Memphis. 15:52.251 --> 15:54.787 And with the exception of Oregon, 15:54.787 --> 15:56.789 they're all running out of water. 15:56.789 --> 15:59.058 And the treatment of the water that they do have is a 15:59.058 --> 16:01.227 tremendously expensive process. 16:01.227 --> 16:04.530 Whereas we can bring water out of the tap, 16:04.530 --> 16:07.433 remove the chlorine, and brew beer here. 16:07.433 --> 16:09.435 They've got to do, you know, this expensive 16:09.435 --> 16:10.636 reverse osmosis filtration. 16:10.636 --> 16:12.638 When you think about doing that for, 16:12.638 --> 16:15.541 you know, hundreds of thousands of gallons of water, 16:15.541 --> 16:17.410 that is pricey. 16:17.410 --> 16:19.645 - And the water thing is interesting. 16:19.645 --> 16:21.647 I mean, you know, there's a whole push. 16:21.647 --> 16:24.750 The Chamber of Commerce are pushing this water is a resource 16:24.750 --> 16:26.752 as an economic development resource. 16:26.752 --> 16:27.753 But you were nodding your head. 16:27.753 --> 16:28.754 I mean, the water.. 16:28.754 --> 16:29.755 You've worked in other places. 16:29.755 --> 16:31.190 The water here is great? 16:31.190 --> 16:34.527 - It's a great base for doing those variety beers I was 16:34.527 --> 16:36.529 talking about before where, you know, 16:36.529 --> 16:40.700 we don't have a lot of minerals that we have to then take out to 16:40.700 --> 16:43.135 make a particular beer taste a particular way. 16:43.135 --> 16:44.604 It's very basic to start with. 16:44.604 --> 16:47.039 And then we can add different minerals to enhance the flavor 16:47.039 --> 16:48.507 profile of the beer. 16:48.507 --> 16:50.610 - You talked about license with the growlers and I'm going to 16:50.610 --> 16:51.611 start with you. 16:51.611 --> 16:54.113 How are you all, if at all, impacted by the wine 16:54.113 --> 16:55.114 in grocery stores bill? 16:55.114 --> 16:57.450 We're not talking about wine but there was more to that bill in 16:57.450 --> 16:59.752 terms of distribution and high gravity 16:59.752 --> 17:01.921 or high alcohol content beer. 17:01.921 --> 17:02.922 How did it impact you? 17:02.922 --> 17:04.090 -It hasn't affected us yet. 17:04.090 --> 17:06.859 January of 2017 is when it affects us where, 17:06.859 --> 17:10.596 from my understanding, beer will just be beer up to a certain 17:10.596 --> 17:12.665 percentage, which is going to be higher than what it is now at 17:12.665 --> 17:14.000 6.2% alcohol. 17:14.000 --> 17:17.603 So, in order to sell higher, you have to have a liquor license. 17:17.603 --> 17:19.739 And we don't have a liquor license. 17:19.739 --> 17:22.875 We just sell beer up to 6.2%. 17:22.875 --> 17:25.778 So, once that law changes, I believe it piggybacked on the 17:25.778 --> 17:27.780 wine and liquor in grocery stores, 17:27.780 --> 17:29.782 we'll be able to sell higher alcohol beer. 17:29.782 --> 17:32.151 So, as of now, it really hasn't affected us that much. 17:32.151 --> 17:33.853 But it will shortly. 17:33.853 --> 17:38.758 - Yeah, as a brewer, how does that impact you? 17:38.758 --> 17:39.759 - So, we have a similar.. 17:39.759 --> 17:42.094 It's going to affect us similarly. 17:42.094 --> 17:44.864 But what I guess I'd say and I'll put on my lawyer hat 17:44.864 --> 17:45.865 for a second. 17:45.865 --> 17:49.568 This law was passed along with the wine in grocery stores law. 17:49.568 --> 17:52.171 It goes into effect January of next year. 17:52.171 --> 17:55.141 And the definition of beer in the state of Tennessee is going 17:55.141 --> 17:56.142 to change. 17:56.142 --> 17:58.911 It used to be that beer was alcoholic beverages, 17:58.911 --> 18:02.148 malt beverages that were five percent alcohol by weight, 18:02.148 --> 18:05.184 which is a really weird way to measure that, or less. 18:05.184 --> 18:07.887 That number is being increased to eight percent, 18:07.887 --> 18:10.256 which is basically ten percent by volume. 18:10.256 --> 18:13.059 So, when you think of, you know, a Budweiser, 18:13.059 --> 18:15.061 that is a five percent beer. 18:15.061 --> 18:17.964 A lot of the stuff that we make runs between four 18:17.964 --> 18:18.965 and six percent. 18:18.965 --> 18:21.434 And now we're going to be able to move into these so-called 18:21.434 --> 18:24.003 high gravity beers that are higher alcohol. 18:24.003 --> 18:26.305 And you can do a lot of cool things with that. 18:26.305 --> 18:28.307 There's a lot more flavor you can pack in. 18:28.307 --> 18:31.210 - So, it is flavor, not just alcohol content and I get drunk 18:31.210 --> 18:33.212 faster or some kind of, sort of, I don't know, 18:33.212 --> 18:35.214 you know, college kind of thing. 18:35.214 --> 18:36.215 It's more.. 18:36.215 --> 18:37.216 There's more to it. 18:37.216 --> 18:39.218 - These beers are definitely not, 18:39.218 --> 18:41.787 you know, college beer bust kind of beers. 18:41.787 --> 18:44.523 They are much more expensive to make, 18:44.523 --> 18:46.525 which means they're much more expensive to buy. 18:46.525 --> 18:49.295 They tend to have higher alcohol content but they also tend to 18:49.295 --> 18:51.630 have a lot more body, a lot more character. 18:51.630 --> 18:52.732 People drink them slower. 18:52.732 --> 18:54.300 They will usually.. 18:54.300 --> 18:56.802 You might really think of it more like somebody buying a 18:56.802 --> 18:57.970 bottle of wine. 18:57.970 --> 19:00.006 You know, you don't say just because wine has more alcohol 19:00.006 --> 19:02.408 than beer that people are buying wine to get drunk. 19:02.408 --> 19:03.409 That's silly. 19:03.409 --> 19:04.410 - Yeah. 19:04.410 --> 19:06.779 Your take on the new law and the impact on your business beyond 19:06.779 --> 19:08.381 what they described? 19:08.381 --> 19:12.752 - We're looking forward to being able to provide some of that, 19:12.752 --> 19:14.754 especially at the tap room. 19:14.754 --> 19:19.225 When the law changes in January, we will offer tap room only 19:19.225 --> 19:20.960 higher alcohol beers. 19:20.960 --> 19:22.962 And that's only because we're going to only make it 19:22.962 --> 19:23.963 in small volumes. 19:23.963 --> 19:25.965 Like Brice said, it's a different.. 19:25.965 --> 19:29.368 It's not a different process it just takes longer than it does 19:29.368 --> 19:30.369 higher alcohol beers. 19:30.369 --> 19:32.505 It takes longer to condition out. 19:32.505 --> 19:34.640 We don't have time for beer to sit around like that. 19:34.640 --> 19:37.443 So, we can make it in a smaller volume and have it available 19:37.443 --> 19:38.444 just at the tap room. 19:38.444 --> 19:40.446 - And a tap room, and then I'll go to Madeline. 19:40.446 --> 19:42.448 For those who don't know what a tap room is, 19:42.448 --> 19:43.449 it is.. 19:43.449 --> 19:45.451 - A tap room is when you can actually come up to the brewery 19:45.451 --> 19:46.452 and drink. 19:46.452 --> 19:48.454 We actually built a bar around the brewery so you can come in 19:48.454 --> 19:50.456 our place and, you know, sit at the bar, 19:50.456 --> 19:52.458 see the brewery right there beside ya, 19:52.458 --> 19:53.459 and drink a beer. 19:53.459 --> 19:55.461 You know, often times I'm up there having a beer 19:55.461 --> 19:56.462 with everybody. 19:56.462 --> 19:57.463 It's right there. 19:57.463 --> 19:58.764 - You all have one, same thing. 19:58.764 --> 20:01.000 - Yeah, we have a tap room. 20:01.000 --> 20:03.836 We have a large event space. 20:03.836 --> 20:07.173 We've literally had weddings in the brewery, 20:07.173 --> 20:09.809 which, you know, cheap -- free PR. 20:09.809 --> 20:11.243 I'll plug it in. 20:11.243 --> 20:14.480 But yeah, you can rent an event space that's got, 20:14.480 --> 20:17.416 you know, huge windows that look in the brewery. 20:17.416 --> 20:18.851 - And you don't get pushback. 20:18.851 --> 20:21.787 You're kind of competing with him when you do that. 20:21.787 --> 20:23.255 And he's selling your beer. 20:23.255 --> 20:27.026 But is it, again, back to this thing of it's a virtuous circle 20:27.026 --> 20:29.028 because it's more people drinking beer 20:29.028 --> 20:30.029 and getting educated. 20:30.029 --> 20:33.165 I mean, because Ghost River is about to build a tap room. 20:33.165 --> 20:34.633 Wiseacre has a tap room. 20:34.633 --> 20:36.635 They're talking about this Coliseum, 20:36.635 --> 20:37.636 really big tap room. 20:37.636 --> 20:39.772 But those don't compete or those don't hurt your business? 20:39.772 --> 20:41.540 - Not really, no. 20:41.540 --> 20:44.243 We actually kind of like it because we can sell everybody's 20:44.243 --> 20:45.244 beer at once. 20:45.244 --> 20:47.246 They can only sell their own beer at Memphis Made. 20:47.246 --> 20:49.248 They can only sell their own beer at High Cotton. 20:49.248 --> 20:51.250 So, we have an opportunity to sell everybody's beer. 20:51.250 --> 20:53.886 So, you know, no offense to you guys but, 20:53.886 --> 20:55.888 you know, sometimes people just don't want to drink one Memphis 20:55.888 --> 20:57.890 Made and then another Memphis Made. 20:57.890 --> 20:59.892 And so, people want to try variety. 20:59.892 --> 21:01.894 So, we don't really see it as competition. 21:01.894 --> 21:03.896 - Madeline, about five minutes left. 21:03.896 --> 21:04.897 - Yeah. 21:04.897 --> 21:06.899 So, the big news obviously is Wiseacre is looking to expand a 21:06.899 --> 21:12.138 lot and has expressed interest in renting the Coliseum for a 21:12.138 --> 21:14.006 30-year lease. 21:14.006 --> 21:17.309 What I think is interesting about Wiseacre's big move is 21:17.309 --> 21:20.880 that what's developed alongside craft brewing is this buy local, 21:20.880 --> 21:22.781 support local kind of movement. 21:22.781 --> 21:26.685 And with Wiseacre trying to bring on more volume, 21:26.685 --> 21:29.021 more capacity and sell outside of Shelby County, 21:29.021 --> 21:34.460 you know, unlike you all, does the shift from a craft brewery 21:34.460 --> 21:39.565 to a mass craft brewery, does that support Memphis' local 21:39.565 --> 21:47.106 breweries or will this Wiseacre stand on its own? 21:47.106 --> 21:48.107 - Absolutely. 21:48.107 --> 21:50.109 It's going to be good for the brewing community. 21:50.109 --> 21:52.111 And first of all, I mean, the shift from.. 21:52.111 --> 21:55.281 I wouldn't go so far as to say that they've reached that mass 21:55.281 --> 21:56.282 craft brewing. 21:56.282 --> 21:58.884 I think they're about 22,000 barrels a year right now, 21:58.884 --> 22:00.119 which is still.. 22:00.119 --> 22:02.121 You know, that's a good size brewery. 22:02.121 --> 22:04.657 But it's, you know, not top 20 or anything. 22:04.657 --> 22:06.659 Now their goal, I think, is to, you know, 22:06.659 --> 22:09.328 change to 100,000 barrels of production a year. 22:09.328 --> 22:12.865 And that would put them in the top 15 in the United States. 22:12.865 --> 22:15.301 And I hope they do it. 22:15.301 --> 22:20.306 You know, what we've seen in other cities where one brewery 22:20.306 --> 22:22.141 really takes off in that way. 22:22.141 --> 22:23.275 And Wiseacre has had.. 22:23.275 --> 22:25.511 You know, they've got a phenomenal investor group. 22:25.511 --> 22:29.181 You know, the Bartosch brothers are experienced in the industry. 22:29.181 --> 22:30.182 They know what they're doing. 22:30.182 --> 22:32.184 A lot of us, you know, started out as hobbyists. 22:32.184 --> 22:35.354 Those guys, and well Drew is a professional. 22:35.354 --> 22:36.355 - It's you. 22:36.355 --> 22:38.357 - The rest of us sort of as hobbyists. 22:38.357 --> 22:44.864 But, you know, those guys have had a plan from day one 22:44.864 --> 22:45.865 to be big. 22:45.865 --> 22:50.869 And I think that what we've seen in other cities is when one of 22:50.869 --> 22:53.939 the breweries gets big, the smaller breweries end up being 22:53.939 --> 22:55.941 able to sort of be niche markets. 22:55.941 --> 22:58.010 And the big brewery becomes a draw. 22:58.010 --> 23:02.948 The little breweries become sort of the interesting exhibits in 23:02.948 --> 23:05.818 the museum. 23:05.818 --> 23:09.188 I think that it can be really good for everybody. 23:09.188 --> 23:11.190 - You said they're doing 20,000. 23:11.190 --> 23:13.192 Give or take, what do you guys do in a year? 23:13.192 --> 23:15.995 - We do about a little more than a tenth of that. 23:15.995 --> 23:17.296 - Just for comparison. 23:17.296 --> 23:18.597 - We're around 3,000. 23:18.597 --> 23:19.598 - Okay. 23:19.598 --> 23:21.834 Your take on the proposal at the Coliseum. 23:21.834 --> 23:23.135 - I'm all for it. 23:23.135 --> 23:26.805 You know, they'll pretty much be neighbors of ours along 23:26.805 --> 23:27.806 with Hammer & Ale. 23:27.806 --> 23:29.008 I think it'll be great. 23:29.008 --> 23:32.745 It's just more craft beer drinkers coming to our area, 23:32.745 --> 23:35.114 to come to our tap room, to come to Hammer & Ale. 23:35.114 --> 23:37.349 They're not going to just go to Wiseacre. 23:37.349 --> 23:39.351 They're not going to just come to our place. 23:39.351 --> 23:41.353 They're going to bounce back and forth. 23:41.353 --> 23:44.356 So, it's just going to be more people coming to that area. 23:44.356 --> 23:46.725 And not only to that area but more people coming to Memphis 23:46.725 --> 23:50.529 with that national recognition of their name. 23:50.529 --> 23:53.132 - So, what was initially proposed for the Coliseum 23:53.132 --> 23:54.767 was a 30-year lease. 23:54.767 --> 23:58.170 And as an industry that's been so explosive, 23:58.170 --> 24:01.140 do you think that's a little bit far sighted and what indicates 24:01.140 --> 24:03.142 to you that beer is here to stay? 24:03.142 --> 24:06.011 - I'm not even going to comment on that. 24:06.011 --> 24:09.581 It's their business plan and they've done well so far. 24:09.581 --> 24:14.219 So, you know, I think they know what they're doing. 24:14.219 --> 24:16.221 - I mean, there are questions, you know, 24:16.221 --> 24:17.222 about whether.. 24:17.222 --> 24:19.224 It seems to be no question they're going to invest a ton of 24:19.224 --> 24:21.226 money in some facility somewhere. 24:21.226 --> 24:22.227 And they've been, you know.. 24:22.227 --> 24:24.229 Frank Smith, one of the, I guess the lead investor, 24:24.229 --> 24:26.532 has been real clear that, look, we need to get in there 24:26.532 --> 24:27.833 and get feasibility. 24:27.833 --> 24:29.601 It may not be possible. 24:29.601 --> 24:31.603 And there are people who have some doubts 24:31.603 --> 24:32.604 whether it's possible. 24:32.604 --> 24:34.606 But I don't think there's any doubt that they're about to 24:34.606 --> 24:36.608 invest a huge amount of money, which says, 24:36.608 --> 24:38.610 to your point, whether it's in the Coliseum, 24:38.610 --> 24:40.612 which would be kind of iconic or it's in some warehouse. 24:40.612 --> 24:41.613 It's a huge investment. 24:41.613 --> 24:43.615 It speaks to the kind of thing you've been talking about. 24:43.615 --> 24:45.617 Meanwhile, I don't know how this impacts you. 24:45.617 --> 24:46.618 I'll turn to you. 24:46.618 --> 24:48.987 The multi-nationals, the big Anheuser-Busch, 24:48.987 --> 24:50.990 the Europeans, the billions of dollars worth of, 24:50.990 --> 24:53.325 you know, the big brand name ones are combining. 24:53.325 --> 24:58.030 Does that have any impact on you all? 24:58.030 --> 25:00.032 Does it just make it better for you because you're that, 25:00.032 --> 25:02.034 as Madeline said, you're that much more local when they are 25:02.034 --> 25:03.569 that much more international? 25:03.569 --> 25:08.774 - Well, so, that combination is happening mostly outside of the 25:08.774 --> 25:09.875 United States, first of all. 25:09.875 --> 25:16.849 The Justice Department is making Miller spin-off its major brands 25:16.849 --> 25:17.850 here in the United States. 25:17.850 --> 25:20.319 So, it really isn't going to have that much impact 25:20.319 --> 25:21.320 here at home. 25:21.320 --> 25:23.455 But at the end of the day, I mean, 25:23.455 --> 25:24.456 and no offense. 25:24.456 --> 25:26.625 You know, the guys that do that kind of work, 25:26.625 --> 25:28.694 the brewers that make that beer are highly talented, 25:28.694 --> 25:30.062 very, very skilled people. 25:30.062 --> 25:32.064 But Bud Light, Miller Light and Coors Light, 25:32.064 --> 25:35.501 they're all, you know, variations on beige. 25:35.501 --> 25:38.203 You know, if you, beige is fine. 25:38.203 --> 25:40.205 - We're going to end on that note. 25:40.205 --> 25:43.409 And the other one, Crosstown Brewing Company. 25:43.409 --> 25:48.447 Are there any others I should give a shout out to 25:48.447 --> 25:49.815 who are coming? 25:49.815 --> 25:52.317 There are more on the way we think but we know Crosstown 25:52.317 --> 25:53.318 is good. 25:53.318 --> 25:55.621 I'm out of time but thank you all for being here. 25:55.621 --> 25:57.089 Thank you for joining us. 25:57.089 --> 25:59.725 Join us again next week, goodnight. 25:59.725 --> 26:03.128 [theme music] 26:03.128 --> 26:08.734  (male announcer)   Production funding    for Behind the Headlines 26:08.734 --> 26:11.804  is made possible in part by.. 26:11.804 --> 26:16.508  The Bartlett Area Chamber of   Commerce and its member A2H - 26:16.508 --> 26:19.445  engineers, architects and   planners creating an enhanced 26:19.445 --> 26:21.847  quality of life for our   clients and community. 26:21.847 --> 26:25.551  To learn more about   A2H's services and markets, 26:25.551 --> 26:27.553  visit A2H.com.