WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:02.002  (female announcer)   Production funding for 00:02.002 --> 00:12.412  "Behind the Headlines" is    made possible in part by.. 00:12.412 --> 00:15.516 The debate over the fairground redevelopment tonight on 00:15.516 --> 00:16.717 "Behind the Headlines." 00:16.717 --> 00:33.400 [theme music] 00:33.400 --> 00:35.102 I'm Eric Barnes, publisher of The Memphis Daily News. 00:35.102 --> 00:36.537 Thanks for joining us. 00:36.537 --> 00:38.505 I'm joined tonight by Kemp Conrad from 00:38.505 --> 00:39.506 the Memphis City Council. 00:39.506 --> 00:40.507 Thanks for being here. 00:40.507 --> 00:41.508 Eric, thanks for having me. 00:41.508 --> 00:45.212 Kevin Kane from the Memphis Convention and Visitors' Bureau. 00:45.212 --> 00:47.180 Thank you. Sorry about that. 00:47.180 --> 00:49.750 Taylor Berger, a small business owner and real estate broker. 00:49.750 --> 00:51.618 Thanks for being here. 00:51.618 --> 00:54.655 And Bill Dries, senior reporter with the Memphis Daily News. 00:54.655 --> 00:55.656 We'll talk. 00:55.656 --> 00:57.658 You all have various perspectives on this. 00:57.658 --> 00:59.660 Opponents and proponents, concerns. 00:59.660 --> 01:01.595 And we'll try to walk through all the details. 01:01.595 --> 01:02.596 I'm going to start with Bill. 01:02.596 --> 01:04.598 And maybe, Kevin, you can pipe in, as well. 01:04.598 --> 01:06.600 Just give viewers who haven't read on the most recent 01:06.600 --> 01:08.602 iteration what is the proposal for the fairgrounds 01:08.602 --> 01:10.604 for the fairgrounds redevelopment. 01:10.604 --> 01:12.606 And then we'll continue to break it down. 01:12.606 --> 01:15.742 Well, what you're dealing with is basically a renovation, 01:15.742 --> 01:20.647 a reconfiguration of the fairgrounds as amateur sports, 01:20.647 --> 01:24.885 as places where sports tournaments are played not just 01:24.885 --> 01:29.423 locally but, you know, leagues coming from around the country 01:29.423 --> 01:31.425 to tournaments on the fairgrounds site. 01:31.425 --> 01:36.930 You would also have on there some kind of real estate 01:36.930 --> 01:39.333 component that's not athletic fields, 01:39.333 --> 01:40.968 which would be.. 01:40.968 --> 01:42.536 I think there's been some talk, Kevin, 01:42.536 --> 01:45.539 about retail as well as possibly a hotel, 01:45.539 --> 01:47.074 something like that. 01:47.074 --> 01:50.110 I think the one thing that we came out of the briefing on this 01:50.110 --> 01:54.481 past Tuesday at city council with is that it's not going 01:54.481 --> 01:56.350 to be restaurants. 01:56.350 --> 01:57.351 Right. 01:57.351 --> 01:59.353 And then, also, before I get you in here, 01:59.353 --> 02:01.488 Kevin, there's talk of tearing down the Coliseum, 02:01.488 --> 02:03.490 which is always a controversial talk. 02:03.490 --> 02:06.493 Putting up a multi-purpose, um, facility that the schools could 02:06.493 --> 02:08.695 use for graduations and can be used for other things. 02:08.695 --> 02:10.697 There's talk of additions to Fairview, 02:10.697 --> 02:12.699 what used to be called Fairview Middle School and is now the 02:12.699 --> 02:14.601 Maxine Smith STEAM Academy. 02:14.601 --> 02:16.036 There's some money for schools. 02:16.036 --> 02:18.038 And we'll get in to all of those details. 02:18.038 --> 02:21.475 From your point of view, Kevin, is that kind of the shape of the 02:21.475 --> 02:22.509 project as you see it? 02:22.509 --> 02:26.580 Well, I think that the Tourism Development Zone Act was 02:26.580 --> 02:27.914 created in 2004. 02:27.914 --> 02:31.284 And it was basically created across the state as a vehicle to 02:31.284 --> 02:32.486 build convention centers. 02:32.486 --> 02:34.554 And the first few were used that way. 02:34.554 --> 02:41.695 In 2007, the Tourism Development Zone Act or law was amended to 02:41.695 --> 02:44.197 include sports related facilities. 02:44.197 --> 02:46.233 And, you know, our first one was really built around our 02:46.233 --> 02:49.569 convention center even though it was really for construction of 02:49.569 --> 02:50.570 the FedEx Forum. 02:50.570 --> 02:54.274 And then it got shifted in the latter years to center around 02:54.274 --> 02:57.177 another sports -- started off to be a sports facility, 02:57.177 --> 02:59.746 the Pyramid, that later would become Bass Pro. 02:59.746 --> 03:02.582 And it's worked quite well. It's generated a lot of money. 03:02.582 --> 03:05.485 It's done everything that we wanted it to do. 03:05.485 --> 03:07.487 There's 12 of these across the state. 03:07.487 --> 03:11.158 When you look at the dollar volume that Nashville and some 03:11.158 --> 03:13.894 areas in East Tennessee have been able to garner off this, 03:13.894 --> 03:16.163 we're really on the short end of the stick. 03:16.163 --> 03:18.665 So, you know, on the simple math, 03:18.665 --> 03:21.068 I would say if we could turn all of Shelby County in to one big 03:21.068 --> 03:23.770 T-D-Z, shame on us for not doing it. 03:23.770 --> 03:26.940 I don't think the state would allow us to do that. 03:26.940 --> 03:28.508 But, you know, T-D-Z's are basically money that would be 03:28.508 --> 03:29.976 going to Nashville that you're able to keep here. 03:29.976 --> 03:31.311 In my really laymen's terms here, 03:31.311 --> 03:36.683 it intercepts that, that sales tax money that normally.. 03:36.683 --> 03:37.818 The growth, not the.. 03:37.818 --> 03:39.152 There's a baseline that's established. 03:39.152 --> 03:41.788 So, that still goes to the state of Tennessee. 03:41.788 --> 03:45.192 We will keep the growth that has generated hopefully by a rising 03:45.192 --> 03:46.359 tide lifting all boats. 03:46.359 --> 03:49.196 People coming to town, people coming to do sports things, 03:49.196 --> 03:51.198 spending money at the retail there, 03:51.198 --> 03:53.200 spending money at other areas within Midtown. 03:53.200 --> 03:54.334 And that's the idea. 03:54.334 --> 03:56.336 That money, instead of going to Nashville, stays. 03:56.336 --> 03:59.206 And the concept around the fairgrounds is because we have 03:59.206 --> 04:01.975 Liberty Bowl Stadium and you have the Children's Museum that 04:01.975 --> 04:04.578 obviously draws, you know, tons of families and youth. 04:04.578 --> 04:06.580 And now we have the Kroc Center. 04:06.580 --> 04:10.283 It's to build on that and to turn that in to something that 04:10.283 --> 04:12.285 would attract the youth sports market. 04:12.285 --> 04:15.889 So, of course, I'm a supporter for an indoor sportsplex more so 04:15.889 --> 04:16.957 than a bunch of ball fields. 04:16.957 --> 04:20.427 And I think, you know, in time, if it happens, 04:20.427 --> 04:22.429 conventional wisdom will prevail. 04:22.429 --> 04:24.431 Okay. Taylor, let me bring you in. 04:24.431 --> 04:27.267 You're known for being a part of Untapped down 04:27.267 --> 04:28.268 at Tennessee Brewery. 04:28.268 --> 04:30.637 You've got restaurants around town. 04:30.637 --> 04:33.306 Real estate broker. A lot of stuff in Midtown. 04:33.306 --> 04:34.307 I don't know. 04:34.307 --> 04:36.309 People have said sort of cutting edge things and so on. 04:36.309 --> 04:38.311 You're real concerned about this proposal. 04:38.311 --> 04:41.715 Is it you don't want a big youth sports facility on the 04:41.715 --> 04:45.385 fairgrounds or is it more about the funding or what? 04:45.385 --> 04:48.922 It's always really exciting to build something new. 04:48.922 --> 04:50.991 I mean, I know I love doing it. 04:50.991 --> 04:54.761 I wonder that in all that excitement we kind of lose 04:54.761 --> 04:57.364 perspective on what we're building and whether 04:57.364 --> 04:58.431 it's really sustainable. 04:58.431 --> 05:01.968 Youth sports is a growing industry. 05:01.968 --> 05:05.839 I think something like $7 billion a year. 05:05.839 --> 05:08.141 Frankly, we're a little bit late to the game. 05:08.141 --> 05:10.143 If we had done this ten years ago, 05:10.143 --> 05:12.145 we would have been ahead of the game. 05:12.145 --> 05:18.518 But since that time, many, many municipalities across the 05:18.518 --> 05:20.520 country have been building these things. 05:20.520 --> 05:22.522 And a lot of them are not doing so well. 05:22.522 --> 05:24.524 You know, Memphis is cool. I love it. 05:24.524 --> 05:26.526 But, you know, we're competing against Nashville and 05:26.526 --> 05:29.162 East Tennessee in our own state as well as Orlando, 05:29.162 --> 05:30.163 Las Vegas. 05:30.163 --> 05:32.165 Everybody has kind of got these things now. 05:32.165 --> 05:35.468 So, I wonder, you know, is the impact going to be 05:35.468 --> 05:38.104 as big as we hope. 05:38.104 --> 05:39.105 I'm sorry. 05:39.105 --> 05:41.107 But do you have concerns from, you know, 05:41.107 --> 05:42.108 you own restaurants. 05:42.108 --> 05:44.144 I guess there's now talk that there wouldn't be a restaurant 05:44.144 --> 05:46.146 on the fairgrounds partly in Cooper-Young. 05:46.146 --> 05:48.782 And all the restaurants are in Overton Square and so on. 05:48.782 --> 05:49.850 But do you worry that it's.. 05:49.850 --> 05:52.219 There might be viewers out there looking to say, 05:52.219 --> 05:55.222 "He's just, you know, he doesn't want anybody to get on his 05:55.222 --> 05:57.224 territory, on the business he owns." 05:57.224 --> 05:58.225 Is that part of your concern? 05:58.225 --> 06:02.395 If this succeeds, then I think I and all the other merchants in 06:02.395 --> 06:03.630 the area do better. 06:03.630 --> 06:05.799 You know, it's just a question of, 06:05.799 --> 06:08.902 you know, just because we build it doesn't necessarily mean 06:08.902 --> 06:09.903 they will come. 06:09.903 --> 06:13.406 And if we do build, you know, youth sports a million square 06:13.406 --> 06:15.408 feet, the cost of maintaining that, 06:15.408 --> 06:19.179 the costs of operating it can be huge. 06:19.179 --> 06:22.616 And I wonder where that cost will ultimately lie. 06:22.616 --> 06:24.618 I mean, will they be coming to the city? 06:24.618 --> 06:26.620 Yeah. Well, let's ask the councilman. 06:26.620 --> 06:29.422 I mean, technically the council voted in support of a 06:29.422 --> 06:32.726 fairgrounds proposal T-D-Z, excuse me, 06:32.726 --> 06:34.895 a couple of years ago if I'm not mistaken. 06:34.895 --> 06:37.297 But you -- We talked a little bit before the show -- and other 06:37.297 --> 06:40.233 who have been on the council recently said, 06:40.233 --> 06:42.235 "Hey, I think they need to come back. 06:42.235 --> 06:44.237 The program has changed. We need some more details." 06:44.237 --> 06:46.239 So, you've got concerns about it? 06:46.239 --> 06:47.240 Well, that was always the plan. 06:47.240 --> 06:49.242 Hey, we approve the overall concept. 06:49.242 --> 06:51.244 But there are a lot of details to be worked out. 06:51.244 --> 06:53.246 That's one of the reasons why I wanted to have it in committee 06:53.246 --> 06:55.248 so we can learn what had happened since we voted on it, 06:55.248 --> 06:56.650 get the latest kind of updates. 06:56.650 --> 06:58.285 And a lot has changed. 06:58.285 --> 07:00.587 And I would call it overall kind of half-baked right now. 07:00.587 --> 07:03.423 We need to fully bake this cake if we want to get it passed 07:03.423 --> 07:04.424 in Nashville. 07:04.424 --> 07:07.627 Mister Berger raises some great questions about operations. 07:07.627 --> 07:09.996 One of the things I think would help get this passed and get all 07:09.996 --> 07:12.599 the stake holders aligned is to go ahead and lock in now the 07:12.599 --> 07:13.600 governance structure. 07:13.600 --> 07:15.935 You know, we have a Sports Authority board that was focused 07:15.935 --> 07:17.937 on new sports many years ago I believe. 07:17.937 --> 07:20.440 They went to then focus on building the FedEx Forum. 07:20.440 --> 07:22.442 And I think it's pretty much lying dormant now. 07:22.442 --> 07:24.811 That might be a good collaborative structure that we 07:24.811 --> 07:27.180 can bring back and go ahead and put the governance in place. 07:27.180 --> 07:29.416 So, we have someone from the city, 07:29.416 --> 07:32.052 someone from the county, someone from the C-V-B, 07:32.052 --> 07:34.287 someone from Game Day Baseball, someone from Mike Rose. 07:34.287 --> 07:37.590 One thing, too, you know, the key to success in any business 07:37.590 --> 07:40.293 or any government or any city is you've got to figure out what 07:40.293 --> 07:42.295 are your competitive advantages? 07:42.295 --> 07:44.331 What are the things that you have that are very unique that 07:44.331 --> 07:45.365 are hard to replicate? 07:45.365 --> 07:46.599 And you leverage those. 07:46.599 --> 07:48.835 You focus on two or three things and you do those well. 07:48.835 --> 07:50.970 You don't try to be all things to all people. 07:50.970 --> 07:52.972 And I would disagree a little bit with Mister Berger because 07:52.972 --> 07:54.975 we're not starting from scratch here. 07:54.975 --> 07:56.976 It's not like we're saying, "You know what? 07:56.976 --> 07:57.977 "We're going to use sports. 07:57.977 --> 07:59.980 You know, let's go chase this new dream." 07:59.980 --> 08:00.914 We do chase a lot of dreams. 08:00.914 --> 08:02.916 We do build too many things and have kind of project envy when 08:02.916 --> 08:05.418 we should focus on the basics of city government and focus more 08:05.418 --> 08:10.123 on kind of children and families and issues like that. 08:10.123 --> 08:13.626 But we already have huge community assets here. 08:13.626 --> 08:15.362 We're doing youth sports now. 08:15.362 --> 08:16.696 Game Day Baseball, I think, creates 08:16.696 --> 08:18.898 30,000 room nights a year. 08:18.898 --> 08:22.435 Over 30,000 room nights and they want to expand. 08:22.435 --> 08:25.672 So, my thing is this can't just be 08:25.672 --> 08:27.941 a Memphis city fairgrounds project. 08:27.941 --> 08:29.209 We've got to collaborate. 08:29.209 --> 08:31.878 A lot of times, the city is not very good at collaborating. 08:31.878 --> 08:34.314 You've got Game Day Baseball. You've got Mike Rose. 08:34.314 --> 08:35.915 You've got Snowden Grove. 08:35.915 --> 08:38.685 I bet there's over 100,000 hotel room nights a year. 08:38.685 --> 08:39.753 I don't know. 08:39.753 --> 08:41.221 If we got 30,000 and multiplied it by three. 08:41.221 --> 08:43.623 Maybe it's a little bit less. Those are hotel room nights. 08:43.623 --> 08:46.026 Those are people buying restaurant meals. 08:46.026 --> 08:48.228 You've got a nephew who's very good at athletics. 08:48.228 --> 08:49.729 I've coached him before. 08:49.729 --> 08:52.031 I guarantee you he's going to be on the road soon with his mom, 08:52.031 --> 08:55.235 his dad, his brother, his sister and they're going to be out for 08:55.235 --> 08:56.169 a whole weekend. 08:56.169 --> 08:57.470 They're going to be staying in hotel rooms. 08:57.470 --> 08:59.406 They're going to be buying meals. 08:59.406 --> 09:01.941 Youth sports done right is a very, 09:01.941 --> 09:05.745 very economical way to do economic development. 09:05.745 --> 09:07.647 We've got a huge opportunity but we got to do it right. 09:07.647 --> 09:09.115 We got to do it right now. 09:09.115 --> 09:10.517 We got to get the stakeholders on board. 09:10.517 --> 09:12.252 Then we can get it passed and make this a success. 09:12.252 --> 09:14.154 One more question and I'll get Bill in here. 09:14.154 --> 09:16.756 So, you just made a great case to vote yes. 09:16.756 --> 09:17.791 But you still have some concerns. 09:17.791 --> 09:19.859 Is it the funding? 09:19.859 --> 09:22.929 A big question always comes up with these deals is, does.. 09:22.929 --> 09:25.098 Ultimately if it fails for whatever reason, 09:25.098 --> 09:28.435 we go in to a recession, are the taxpayers of Memphis on the hook 09:28.435 --> 09:30.336 to continue to pay for this for the next 20 years? 09:30.336 --> 09:32.172 First of all, the Devil is in the details. 09:32.172 --> 09:34.040 I agree. The concept is good. 09:34.040 --> 09:35.909 But now the details need to be worked out. 09:35.909 --> 09:37.644 Mister Berger has done a great job of raising 09:37.644 --> 09:39.279 some of these questions. 09:39.279 --> 09:41.548 Operations, operating expenses. 09:41.548 --> 09:44.818 So, exactly what's going to be programmed there? 09:44.818 --> 09:45.985 We don't even know. 09:45.985 --> 09:48.822 There was a report back in 2013, the Charlie Johnson report, 09:48.822 --> 09:51.024 that laid out where the opportunity was, 09:51.024 --> 09:53.093 the multi-purpose stadium and things like this. 09:53.093 --> 09:55.094 I would not support it as it is now until.. 09:55.094 --> 09:57.697 It's never going to pass until we get these things worked out. 09:57.697 --> 09:59.399 What was your second question? 09:59.399 --> 10:01.434 That's good. Let me get Kevin in. 10:01.434 --> 10:05.738 First of all -- and I've got a great deal of respect 10:05.738 --> 10:06.739 for Taylor. 10:06.739 --> 10:07.740 I'm a big fan of his. 10:07.740 --> 10:09.742 He's done some great things throughout the community. 10:09.742 --> 10:14.314 He's been great for tourism. But I vehemently disagree. 10:14.314 --> 10:15.648 We're not late to the game. 10:15.648 --> 10:18.418 Memphis is a great youth sports market. 10:18.418 --> 10:22.222 Mike Rose Soccer Complex, go out there any weekend. 10:22.222 --> 10:24.224 You look at what's going on, taking place there. 10:24.224 --> 10:25.658 They're looking to expand. 10:25.658 --> 10:28.194 They want to get bigger because they are busting at the seams 10:28.194 --> 10:29.963 with opportunities for events. 10:29.963 --> 10:31.097 Game Day Baseball. 10:31.097 --> 10:33.099 Even though they lost their title sponsor, 10:33.099 --> 10:35.468 Game Day Baseball, which is privately owned by the way, 10:35.468 --> 10:38.805 which is kind of rare for these type of multi-purpose facilities 10:38.805 --> 10:41.341 or multi-sportsplex with lots of ball fields, 10:41.341 --> 10:43.676 or courts, or whatever it might be. 10:43.676 --> 10:46.980 They're busting at the seams. They want to expand. 10:46.980 --> 10:49.182 They don't have any available weekends. 10:49.182 --> 10:52.452 We're bringing tournaments in from all over the country. 10:52.452 --> 10:53.453 Volleyball. 10:53.453 --> 10:55.455 This weekend at the Cook Convention Center, 10:55.455 --> 10:58.324 the next two weekends, we'll have 7,000 people 10:58.324 --> 11:00.660 in town for youth volleyball, 11:00.660 --> 11:02.729 the Martin Luther King Volleyball Tournament. 11:02.729 --> 11:05.465 We had a big gymnastics tournament at 11:05.465 --> 11:08.001 the Convention Center two weekends ago. 11:08.001 --> 11:11.804 We have A-A-U basketball that's here in the summer for four or 11:11.804 --> 11:14.140 five weeks in the summer, 13's and 14's we've had for many, 11:14.140 --> 11:16.776 many years that we have to spread out in four or five high 11:16.776 --> 11:18.778 school gyms in the eastern part of the county. 11:18.778 --> 11:21.781 We are great youth sports market and we can get better. 11:21.781 --> 11:23.183 So, we're not late to the game. 11:23.183 --> 11:26.152 I think we're trying to build on that opportunity. 11:26.152 --> 11:27.153 It's amazing to see. 11:27.153 --> 11:30.156 I mean, our daughters played on the same competitive volleyball 11:30.156 --> 11:31.157 team years ago. 11:31.157 --> 11:33.159 And I remember going to a tournament in Saint Louis. 11:33.159 --> 11:35.361 And I spent ungodly sums of money in that weekend. 11:35.361 --> 11:37.964 So, people think it is sort of church league basketball 11:37.964 --> 11:38.965 or church.. 11:38.965 --> 11:40.166 It's a whole different deal. 11:40.166 --> 11:42.168 Nothing wrong with church league basketball. 11:42.168 --> 11:44.437 This is a whole different deal when you get in to these 11:44.437 --> 11:45.438 competitive sports. 11:45.438 --> 11:47.440 But, Bill, let's get you in here. 11:47.440 --> 11:49.842 Let's talk about the Mid-South Coliseum because it seems to me 11:49.842 --> 11:53.646 as if some of the discussion about whether the Coliseum stays 11:53.646 --> 12:00.153 or goes is fueling almost a separate discussion from the one 12:00.153 --> 12:03.289 about amateur sports. 12:03.289 --> 12:07.327 Taylor, how much of your concern is based on the Coliseum 12:07.327 --> 12:11.230 going in this? 12:11.230 --> 12:13.233 Personally, not a whole lot. 12:13.233 --> 12:15.234 I mean, if this goes forward, I want, 12:15.234 --> 12:17.503 you know, if we can use an existing facility, 12:17.503 --> 12:18.605 I think that's smart. 12:18.605 --> 12:20.673 If it doesn't work for what we're going to do, 12:20.673 --> 12:21.674 then it doesn't work. 12:21.674 --> 12:23.743 I don't think we can hold on to something just for nostalgia. 12:23.743 --> 12:27.580 But there is a massive contingency of people in the 12:27.580 --> 12:33.219 community who have a large problem with getting rid 12:33.219 --> 12:34.220 of the Coliseum. 12:34.220 --> 12:35.221 I'd love to respond to that. 12:35.221 --> 12:38.191 Yeah, we'll get to you. Hang on. 12:38.191 --> 12:40.193 Hold that thought. So, that's interesting. 12:40.193 --> 12:43.129 Because you did, you know, you were involved with the Tennessee 12:43.129 --> 12:45.798 Brewery and that was partly about keeping that thing alive. 12:45.798 --> 12:48.468 But you're a little less nostalgic on the Coliseum. 12:48.468 --> 12:49.602 I am. 12:49.602 --> 12:53.439 I mean, I think, you know, this is.. 12:53.439 --> 12:56.309 If we do youth sports, it has to operate well first. 12:56.309 --> 12:58.945 I mean, we can't let this fail if it does go forward. 12:58.945 --> 13:01.781 And if the Coliseum is an impediment to that, 13:01.781 --> 13:03.983 then it has to go. 13:03.983 --> 13:07.186 I mean, we can't let something large fail because of nostalgia. 13:07.186 --> 13:12.191 Kemp, you were at the council discussion obviously. 13:12.191 --> 13:15.862 When the Coliseum came up not as a main component of the 13:15.862 --> 13:17.964 council's discussion but certainly there was some back 13:17.964 --> 13:20.466 and forth about how much does it cost to renovate. 13:20.466 --> 13:22.468 Where are you in terms of considering that? 13:22.468 --> 13:24.470 I think the data should drive the decision, 13:24.470 --> 13:25.471 pure and simple. 13:25.471 --> 13:27.473 If we're going to be great at youth sports, we need.. 13:27.473 --> 13:29.475 That was one of my frustrations in the meeting was 13:29.475 --> 13:30.476 that there wasn't.. 13:30.476 --> 13:32.478 The program really wasn't together. 13:32.478 --> 13:34.480 So, if we're going to be great at youth sports and if this is 13:34.480 --> 13:36.482 going to be successful after 20 years, 13:36.482 --> 13:38.484 we've got to put the right programming in here. 13:38.484 --> 13:41.521 Now the data that I've seen that I've really started kind of dig 13:41.521 --> 13:42.555 back in to now.. 13:42.555 --> 13:45.124 The data really points to needing kind of this multiplex 13:45.124 --> 13:46.159 to do the basketball. 13:46.159 --> 13:48.161 I think that's our one weakness. 13:48.161 --> 13:50.396 And then I think you asked about tax payer funds. 13:50.396 --> 13:53.733 What they told us Tuesday was that these would be revenue 13:53.733 --> 13:54.734 bonds not backed by the city. 13:54.734 --> 13:56.936 So, there would not be any city commitment to it. 13:56.936 --> 13:59.372 Now if the thing, you know, were to default, 13:59.372 --> 14:02.608 there's still issues that come up. 14:02.608 --> 14:04.610 The taxpayers are the ultimate backstop. 14:04.610 --> 14:05.778 No, not with revenue bonds. 14:05.778 --> 14:08.715 Now someone is going to have to come in. 14:08.715 --> 14:11.617 There might be a, you know.. It causes challenges. 14:11.617 --> 14:14.787 So, we've got to really make sure that we buy in to the 14:14.787 --> 14:16.789 underwriting, you know, through that due diligence process. 14:16.789 --> 14:17.990 So, it doesn't impact.. 14:17.990 --> 14:20.893 The taxpayers would not be on the hook. 14:20.893 --> 14:22.895 But a credit rating or, you know, 14:22.895 --> 14:24.897 if the city wants to go do other things, 14:24.897 --> 14:25.898 this is totally off the books. 14:25.898 --> 14:26.966 Yeah, they're revenue bonds. 14:26.966 --> 14:28.401 Kevin, your point about this. 14:28.401 --> 14:31.971 There's some nostalgia factor for you with the Coliseum. 14:31.971 --> 14:35.875 You know, I played for the Tigers J-V basketball team in 14:35.875 --> 14:38.010 the '70s in the Mid-South Coliseum. 14:38.010 --> 14:40.847 You know, I saw all my first concerts. 14:40.847 --> 14:44.751 I got a lot of great memories of the Mid-South Coliseum. 14:44.751 --> 14:48.321 The reality of it is is the Mid-South Coliseum was 14:48.321 --> 14:50.389 functionally obsolete for a couple of reasons. 14:50.389 --> 14:52.725 Number one, A-D-A requirements. 14:52.725 --> 14:56.129 It would cost millions to bring that up to code. 14:56.129 --> 14:57.864 The lighting in the building. 14:57.864 --> 14:59.866 They don't even manufacture those lights anymore. 14:59.866 --> 15:01.801 You'd have to do a whole new lighting grid. 15:01.801 --> 15:03.803 That's hundreds of thousands of dollars. 15:03.803 --> 15:09.342 I think to get the Coliseum up to code and to get it modernized 15:09.342 --> 15:13.813 would cost as much as 28- $30 million is what I've heard, 15:13.813 --> 15:18.017 which is about what one of these modern indoor multicourt 15:18.017 --> 15:21.654 sportsplex that could have six or seven basketball courts with 15:21.654 --> 15:23.856 a championship court that, you know, 15:23.856 --> 15:26.659 for championship events, graduations, 15:26.659 --> 15:30.496 Lady Tigers basketball, whatever you want to do in there. 15:30.496 --> 15:33.166 It could also be used for volleyball, 15:33.166 --> 15:35.935 gymnastics, cheerleading and other types of activities. 15:35.935 --> 15:40.273 The problem with the Coliseum with 11,200 seats and the way 15:40.273 --> 15:43.309 the building is built, you can't make a lot 15:43.309 --> 15:44.377 of those seats disappear. 15:44.377 --> 15:46.379 They're built in to the structure of the building. 15:46.379 --> 15:48.848 You'd almost have to tear the walls of the whole side of the 15:48.848 --> 15:51.417 building around the building to make that work. 15:51.417 --> 15:54.587 So, the footprint that you have to work with does not even lend 15:54.587 --> 15:57.156 itself to have two basketball courts in there, 15:57.156 --> 15:58.324 much less five or six. 15:58.324 --> 16:00.259 So, you know, it just doesn't work. 16:00.259 --> 16:02.295 And it's unfortunate but, you know, 16:02.295 --> 16:04.797 we had to tear down Ellis Auditorium a few years ago. 16:04.797 --> 16:06.799 And there was a lot of nostalgia about that. 16:06.799 --> 16:11.470 I can tell you Ellis Auditorium is nowhere close in comparison 16:11.470 --> 16:13.706 to the building that the Canon Center is now today. 16:13.706 --> 16:16.442 Sometimes you just got to say goodbye to something and you've 16:16.442 --> 16:17.443 got to move forward. 16:17.443 --> 16:20.046 And I think unfortunately the Coliseum has lived its life. 16:20.046 --> 16:22.114 I should say, too, just so people.. 16:22.114 --> 16:24.550 There are good stories on our side and the C-A's side 16:24.550 --> 16:25.551 and so on in this. 16:25.551 --> 16:27.854 But what we're talking about is a $30 million multi-purpose 16:27.854 --> 16:30.056 facility, a 30 year bond and, you know, 16:30.056 --> 16:33.426 paid from what they're estimating to be $340 million in 16:33.426 --> 16:36.195 incremental sales tax revenue over that 30 year period. 16:36.195 --> 16:38.197 So, we're talking about big, big money. 16:38.197 --> 16:41.033 That otherwise would have gone to the state. 16:41.033 --> 16:44.904 Right. 16:44.904 --> 16:47.173 No, and it's good because it somehow gets in to the debate. 16:47.173 --> 16:48.507 We've talked a lot about PILOTs. 16:48.507 --> 16:51.210 I mean, so many PILOTs have been talked about on this show. 16:51.210 --> 16:53.079 Everybody comes in and talks about PILOTs. 16:53.079 --> 16:55.214 Kind of hates them but they want to use them or hates them and 16:55.214 --> 16:56.315 they want to stop. 16:56.315 --> 16:57.550 This is one where you -- I'll just go to you -- as a 16:57.550 --> 17:00.653 politician, a T-D-Z, you like if the details get filled in. 17:00.653 --> 17:01.487 Right? 17:01.487 --> 17:04.724 I mean, it's not a tax giveaway. 17:04.724 --> 17:06.726 Any of these incentives get framed by some people 17:06.726 --> 17:07.727 as tax giveaways. 17:07.727 --> 17:09.729 This is not from your point of view? 17:09.729 --> 17:11.731 This is money that would otherwise go to 17:11.731 --> 17:12.732 the state of Tennessee. 17:12.732 --> 17:15.902 And so, these are dollars that would go to somewhere else. 17:15.902 --> 17:19.005 We're keeping them here to improve our community and to 17:19.005 --> 17:22.174 generate, you know, generate a lot of opportunity and business 17:22.174 --> 17:23.209 for restauranteurs. 17:23.209 --> 17:24.810 But what about the perspective? 17:24.810 --> 17:26.812 I mean, you'll get people. We've had people on the show. 17:26.812 --> 17:28.814 They say, you know, if governments involved, 17:28.814 --> 17:29.815 it's a bad project. 17:29.815 --> 17:31.817 It should just stand on its own. 17:31.817 --> 17:33.819 If we want to get a youth sports facility on there, 17:33.819 --> 17:36.489 we want to get retail on there, we should just sell the land and 17:36.489 --> 17:38.658 the private sector should just take care of the whole thing. 17:38.658 --> 17:40.660 And the government shouldn't be involved at all. 17:40.660 --> 17:41.661 Your response to that? 17:41.661 --> 17:43.663 I think what we're trying to do is facilitate, 17:43.663 --> 17:46.065 you know, private people coming in and then ultimately doing it. 17:46.065 --> 17:49.468 Someone has got to go, you know, and get the support and get the 17:49.468 --> 17:50.536 stakeholders together. 17:50.536 --> 17:52.538 And we probably need to have more, 17:52.538 --> 17:54.540 you know, private involved and not just be city lead. 17:54.540 --> 17:58.878 So, I think it should be a collaborative approach. 17:58.878 --> 18:01.213 And your take on that? 18:01.213 --> 18:05.885 I think there's a reason why individuals or corporations 18:05.885 --> 18:07.987 don't build, for the most part, arenas, 18:07.987 --> 18:11.023 stadiums, convention centers, performing arts halls. 18:11.023 --> 18:13.559 There's a reason why the community owns those assets. 18:13.559 --> 18:16.395 Number one, the quality of life impact they have 18:16.395 --> 18:17.396 for a community. 18:17.396 --> 18:20.800 Number two, these things are not sustainable as 18:20.800 --> 18:22.268 for profit ventures. 18:22.268 --> 18:25.438 I mean, we're so fortunate that the Grizzlies are on the hook 18:25.438 --> 18:29.075 for the operations of the FedEx Forum. 18:29.075 --> 18:31.510 Because in Nashville, the Predators are not on the hook 18:31.510 --> 18:33.612 for the operation of Bridgestone Arena. 18:33.612 --> 18:37.083 Bridgestone Arena loses millions of dollars a year as a building. 18:37.083 --> 18:39.585 And the FedEx Forum probably doesn't make any money 18:39.585 --> 18:40.586 as a building. 18:40.586 --> 18:42.588 But if it loses money, the Grizzlies are 18:42.588 --> 18:43.589 on the hook for that. 18:43.589 --> 18:46.292 That was a real smart thing our governmental leaders did, 18:46.292 --> 18:49.328 you know, 15 years ago when they cut the deal with Mister Heisley 18:49.328 --> 18:50.329 and the ownership group. 18:50.329 --> 18:54.400 So, you know, you've got to have these public facilities. 18:54.400 --> 18:56.402 We got to have convention centers. 18:56.402 --> 18:58.404 We got to have performing arts halls and we got to have sports 18:58.404 --> 19:00.940 facilities if you want to be a world class community. 19:00.940 --> 19:02.308 Yeah, yeah. Bill? 19:02.308 --> 19:05.144 Taylor, I think you have a point on that. 19:05.144 --> 19:10.783 That's really my worry is that I haven't seen anything about that 19:10.783 --> 19:14.253 kind of the private developer backstop idea. 19:14.253 --> 19:16.255 All of this money that we're talking about, 19:16.255 --> 19:18.257 this free money, it goes to build the buildings. 19:18.257 --> 19:21.927 But there's huge costs in operating and maintaining those 19:21.927 --> 19:24.830 buildings that nobody has really talked about. 19:24.830 --> 19:26.832 Is that the part of the weakness of the plan that, 19:26.832 --> 19:28.834 you know, if you compare it to, say.. 19:28.834 --> 19:30.836 I know it's a little apples and oranges. 19:30.836 --> 19:32.838 But you compare it to Overton Park or Overton Square. 19:32.838 --> 19:33.839 Bob Loeb.. 19:33.839 --> 19:35.841 I mean, whatever you think about that project, 19:35.841 --> 19:37.843 Bob Loeb comes in and says I;m going to put up, 19:37.843 --> 19:41.280 what? -- $20 million if the city will put up whatever five to ten 19:41.280 --> 19:43.315 for the parking garage and the water retention. 19:43.315 --> 19:45.885 The same thing with Graceland in the T-D-Z down there. 19:45.885 --> 19:48.187 Graceland has spent a ton of money down there. 19:48.187 --> 19:50.189 There's a kind of named partner. 19:50.189 --> 19:52.191 Is that part of the weakness with this? 19:52.191 --> 19:53.192 There's no named partner. 19:53.192 --> 19:54.193 Yes. 19:54.193 --> 19:56.362 I mean, the irony of this is that a private developer came to 19:56.362 --> 19:59.331 the city, you know, in 2007 with this same proposal. 19:59.331 --> 20:02.268 But at that time, retail was great. 20:02.268 --> 20:03.569 Target was at the table. 20:03.569 --> 20:05.571 You know, you had a name developer, 20:05.571 --> 20:07.573 someone with stature in the community, saying, 20:07.573 --> 20:10.409 "I'm going to invest substantial capital in this now 20:10.409 --> 20:12.712 if you can put in some, too." 20:12.712 --> 20:15.147 You know, we don't have that now. 20:15.147 --> 20:17.516 And, you know, they'll say, well, 20:17.516 --> 20:19.552 we're going to put out an R-F-P and that'll happen. 20:19.552 --> 20:22.588 Let's go ahead and get those guidelines for what 20:22.588 --> 20:23.589 we're going to require. 20:23.589 --> 20:26.325 Are we going to require that developer who submits an R-F-P 20:26.325 --> 20:28.627 to backstop potential losses. 20:28.627 --> 20:30.696 You know, these are the things that need to be discussed now. 20:30.696 --> 20:32.198 Do you agree with that? 20:32.198 --> 20:35.367 I mean, is that part of the concerns that people have about 20:35.367 --> 20:38.504 the project that there's no named private partner? 20:38.504 --> 20:41.240 It feels to some people like a build it and they will come 20:41.240 --> 20:42.241 kind of project. 20:42.241 --> 20:44.510 Well, I think, you know, I mean, Kevin said it. 20:44.510 --> 20:48.781 I think, well, let's go get it approved and get the funds. 20:48.781 --> 20:51.817 Then I think that's when some of those details can be worked out. 20:51.817 --> 20:53.919 Now I think there's a lot more that needs to be worked out, 20:53.919 --> 20:55.921 you know, on the front end right now. 20:55.921 --> 20:57.923 Do we need to have the whole structure on the process? 20:57.923 --> 20:58.924 I don't think the city really.. 20:58.924 --> 21:03.262 I think the idea is that we will go out and do an R-F-P and 21:03.262 --> 21:04.263 have a private.. 21:04.263 --> 21:07.700 The city is not going to be the developer on this project. 21:07.700 --> 21:11.837 And I think that Wharton said to me when he was on the show, 21:11.837 --> 21:13.839 he talked about that and said -- and I'm paraphrasing. 21:13.839 --> 21:17.443 Look, if we get this thing approved, 21:17.443 --> 21:19.979 it's not like we're going to go start building before we have 21:19.979 --> 21:20.980 this partner in place. 21:20.980 --> 21:22.982 We're going to put that R-F-P, the Request For Proposal. 21:22.982 --> 21:24.984 We're going to talk to people and get them in before. 21:24.984 --> 21:27.887 The city cannot go out and build a hotel and then go hire Hilton 21:27.887 --> 21:28.888 to run it. 21:28.888 --> 21:31.457 The city is not going to build a 60,000 square foot strip 21:31.457 --> 21:34.994 shopping center and go hire Simon Malls to come in here 21:34.994 --> 21:35.995 and operate it. 21:35.995 --> 21:37.363 I mean, that's ridiculous. 21:37.363 --> 21:39.365 But that's the impression people have. 21:39.365 --> 21:42.234 But this is as Kemp said. This has to be market driven. 21:42.234 --> 21:45.171 Whatever happens on the private side has to be market driven. 21:45.171 --> 21:48.607 And I think what will interest the private side if you do the 21:48.607 --> 21:51.877 infrastructure right around on the rest of the footprint on the 21:51.877 --> 21:54.680 public piece whether it's a multiplex, 21:54.680 --> 21:56.682 sportsplex, whatever it might be. 21:56.682 --> 21:59.685 When you do those things, that's what garners an interest 21:59.685 --> 22:00.886 of private developers. 22:00.886 --> 22:02.888 And that's where they will come to the table. 22:02.888 --> 22:03.889 This thing is a process. 22:03.889 --> 22:07.960 This is not something where you just wave a magic wand and you 22:07.960 --> 22:08.994 just make it happen. 22:08.994 --> 22:11.530 I mean, you know, you got to go through the process. 22:11.530 --> 22:13.566 I think Taylor brings up some great points. 22:13.566 --> 22:17.503 I think you do need to make sure that you've looked at this thing 22:17.503 --> 22:19.505 very thoroughly because you're right. 22:19.505 --> 22:23.709 The utility bill on an eight court basketball complex.. 22:23.709 --> 22:26.245 Heck, the utility bills alone is probably more than what bid fees 22:26.245 --> 22:27.246 for tournaments would bring. 22:27.246 --> 22:29.915 But unfortunately, a lot of this is not about bid fees 22:29.915 --> 22:30.916 for tournament. 22:30.916 --> 22:34.420 A lot for these complexes whether it's a convention center 22:34.420 --> 22:36.422 or Game Day Baseball and Mike Rose Soccer, 22:36.422 --> 22:39.258 how many people do you bring to your community that stay in your 22:39.258 --> 22:41.393 hotels, that eat in your restaurants, 22:41.393 --> 22:43.929 that go to your attractions, how much taxes do they generate and 22:43.929 --> 22:45.998 how much economic benefits do they generate for the community? 22:45.998 --> 22:48.000 I just want to say, too, I think the examples you gave, 22:48.000 --> 22:50.002 Overton Park, Graceland, those are privately owned. 22:50.002 --> 22:56.175 So, Bob Loeb bought Overton Square from a private owner. 22:56.175 --> 22:58.877 This is a city owned asset right now. 22:58.877 --> 23:01.847 So, I don't think that tax payers will say, 23:01.847 --> 23:04.750 "Okay, Mister developer here, we're going to give this to you 23:04.750 --> 23:05.818 to go do what you want." 23:05.818 --> 23:08.988 I mean, I think the city needs to have a bit of control in 23:08.988 --> 23:09.989 a collaborative way. 23:09.989 --> 23:12.825 The market will bear what's developed there. 23:12.825 --> 23:15.828 But there will be a private entity that will come in. 23:15.828 --> 23:18.797 You've got the private piece and then you've got the kind of the 23:18.797 --> 23:21.500 youth sports piece of it and the operations piece. 23:21.500 --> 23:22.935 And the math has to work. 23:22.935 --> 23:24.937 And from an elected officials standpoint, 23:24.937 --> 23:26.939 votes like this, like Redbirds Stadium, 23:26.939 --> 23:28.974 you know, these have very, very long tails to them. 23:28.974 --> 23:32.678 And we want to make very sure that they're done right. 23:32.678 --> 23:33.679 Bill? 23:33.679 --> 23:36.448 So, the council voted on the concept once. 23:36.448 --> 23:40.219 Should the council vote on this again? 23:40.219 --> 23:46.358 And if it does, does a vote on that at before or after it gives 23:46.358 --> 23:51.063 the city its blessings to go ahead for a tourism development? 23:51.063 --> 23:52.064 Perhaps. 23:52.064 --> 23:54.066 I think the council needs to really be engaged from this 23:54.066 --> 23:56.635 point forward from here to the finish line whether that's some 23:56.635 --> 23:59.605 kind of liaison or it comes back for a vote. 23:59.605 --> 24:02.675 I've got a bit of an open mind on that. 24:02.675 --> 24:06.245 But I definitely think that the council will be involved in some 24:06.245 --> 24:10.582 form or fashion from here until it gets approved and then 24:10.582 --> 24:11.583 ongoing. 24:11.583 --> 24:12.584 I think we have a duty. 24:12.584 --> 24:15.020 Taylor, some of your hesitancy on this, 24:15.020 --> 24:19.591 some of your concern about this seems to be that the 24:19.591 --> 24:21.660 train is on the tracks. 24:21.660 --> 24:24.296 I don't want a Midtown Pyramid. 24:24.296 --> 24:26.632 I don't want to be back here in ten years trying to figure out 24:26.632 --> 24:29.668 what to do with all these buildings that the private 24:29.668 --> 24:31.937 developers long ago left because he didn't want 24:31.937 --> 24:32.938 to bear the losses. 24:32.938 --> 24:35.307 So, we're stuck with this and now we got to figure out how to 24:35.307 --> 24:36.442 make it work. 24:36.442 --> 24:37.609 That scares me. 24:37.609 --> 24:40.479 And we will have used up all of the Midtown tax, 24:40.479 --> 24:43.048 you know, sales tax increment for the next 30 years. 24:43.048 --> 24:45.184 I'll be 65. 24:45.184 --> 24:49.755 I'll be a little older than that. 24:49.755 --> 24:55.327 And Kevin, you have a concern in this as well and that 24:55.327 --> 24:56.595 is about timing. 24:56.595 --> 24:58.664 Because as we talked before the show, 24:58.664 --> 25:00.933 the state, the Tennessee Building Commission, 25:00.933 --> 25:04.203 the state leaders in Nashville, they've kind of had enough of 25:04.203 --> 25:06.138 the tourism development. 25:06.138 --> 25:07.873 I think Taylor brings up great points. 25:07.873 --> 25:11.043 And I know that Kemp is thinking this through because he has been 25:11.043 --> 25:13.779 involved in so many of these projects to make sure that the 25:13.779 --> 25:16.148 city is protected in the long run and the citizens are 25:16.148 --> 25:17.683 protected in the long run. 25:17.683 --> 25:21.420 Get the Tourism Development Zone and then figure out exactly how 25:21.420 --> 25:23.422 this thing should be structured. 25:23.422 --> 25:25.691 But if we don't get this Tourism Development Zone, 25:25.691 --> 25:30.462 shame on us for giving $300 million over 30 years to the 25:30.462 --> 25:32.231 state of Tennessee. 25:32.231 --> 25:33.232 I agree with Kevin. 25:33.232 --> 25:35.501 And I think it will help us to get the vote in Nashville. 25:35.501 --> 25:37.669 I was in Nashville for the inauguration and I talked 25:37.669 --> 25:38.670 to the treasurer. 25:38.670 --> 25:40.672 I talked to a lot of my friends in the house, 25:40.672 --> 25:42.808 in the senate, my friends in F-N-A. 25:42.808 --> 25:46.278 I think if we measure twice and then cut once, 25:46.278 --> 25:48.280 it will help us get that vote in Nashville. 25:48.280 --> 25:50.282 And I just think we've got to think, 25:50.282 --> 25:53.685 flush a few of these things out, have a bit more of a solid plan. 25:53.685 --> 25:54.787 I think we'll get the vote. 25:54.787 --> 25:58.223 And I think, you know, with a lot of the things that Mister 25:58.223 --> 26:01.326 Berger is talking about, we will have a great project that all 26:01.326 --> 26:02.828 Memphians can be proud of. 26:02.828 --> 26:03.896 Okay. Just last second. 26:03.896 --> 26:05.898 Are you running for mayor or are you one of the only city 26:05.898 --> 26:07.900 council-people who aren't running for mayor? 26:07.900 --> 26:08.901 I am not running for mayor. 26:08.901 --> 26:10.903 I would like to work with and serve, 26:10.903 --> 26:12.371 you know, a great mayor. 26:12.371 --> 26:16.508 I like being on the council and I would love to collaborate with 26:16.508 --> 26:17.509 a great mayor. 26:17.509 --> 26:19.645 We know we have one who is not. Okay. 26:19.645 --> 26:22.381 Thank you all for being here. Appreciate it. 26:22.381 --> 26:24.483 Join us again next week. Goodnight. 26:24.483 --> 26:40.632 [theme music] 26:40.632 --> 26:44.632 CLOSED CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY W-K-N-O, MEMPHIS.