WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:02.502 (female announcer) Production funding for Behind the Headlines 00:02.502 --> 00:11.311 is made possible in part by.. 00:12.579 --> 00:15.916 - Police Director Mike Rallings tonight on Behind the Headlines. 00:15.916 --> 00:21.355 [theme music] 00:33.000 --> 00:34.401 I'm Eric Barnes, publisher of The Memphis Daily News. 00:34.401 --> 00:35.536 Thanks for joining me. 00:35.536 --> 00:37.504 I am joined tonight by Michael Rallings, 00:37.504 --> 00:40.040 newly appointed police director for Memphis Police Department. 00:40.040 --> 00:40.774 Thanks for being here. 00:40.774 --> 00:42.309 - Thank you for having me. 00:42.309 --> 00:44.211 (Eric) Along with Bill Dries, senior reporter with The Memphis 00:44.211 --> 00:46.413 Daily News. 00:46.413 --> 00:48.582 You were named interim in February. 00:48.582 --> 00:51.018 You got the job about a month ago. 00:51.018 --> 00:53.020 We'll talk about all kinds of things, 00:53.020 --> 00:55.022 even towards the end of the show, 00:55.022 --> 00:57.024 a little bit of time looking back on being up on the bridge 00:57.024 --> 00:58.258 in the summer and all of that. 00:58.258 --> 01:00.260 But right now, for the first part of the year, 01:00.260 --> 01:02.930 you know, the real headline has been the murder rate. 01:02.930 --> 01:05.966 Violent crime as a whole, I think the most recent numbers.. 01:05.966 --> 01:07.334 It's leveled off. 01:07.334 --> 01:10.470 It's up a little bit, one percent or so from last year. 01:10.470 --> 01:13.574 But the murder rate is up 40 or 50 percent. 01:13.574 --> 01:15.208 You know, why is that? 01:15.208 --> 01:19.346 What is your take of why that murder rate spiked so much and 01:19.346 --> 01:22.282 what can you and your officers do about it? 01:22.282 --> 01:25.018 - Well, you know, the answer to the first part of the question, 01:25.018 --> 01:27.955 I think that we're all trying to figure that our across the 01:27.955 --> 01:29.756 nation. 01:29.756 --> 01:32.526 I'm a member of the Major City Chiefs Association. 01:32.526 --> 01:36.797 Last I checked, 44 cities, major cities, 01:36.797 --> 01:38.799 have spiked in homicides this year. 01:38.799 --> 01:42.669 Last year there were probably 30 cities that had a spike and we 01:42.669 --> 01:44.004 didn't. 01:44.004 --> 01:46.139 So, working with Major City Chiefs, 01:46.139 --> 01:50.110 other agencies across the nation and also the FBI. 01:50.110 --> 01:54.715 We're kind of diving into what is pushing our violent crime. 01:54.715 --> 01:58.552 Locally, you know, the legislature has not helped us 01:58.552 --> 02:00.354 with guns in cars. 02:00.354 --> 02:05.125 I kind of share that everywhere I go because access to guns, 02:05.125 --> 02:11.565 gangs, drugs, more violent subculture within that group I 02:11.565 --> 02:14.701 think has led to our increase in homicide rates. 02:14.701 --> 02:20.374 Recently, we found out that probably 42% of our homicide 02:20.374 --> 02:23.710 victims are gang members or have gang affiliation. 02:23.710 --> 02:27.047 So, we're taking a deep dive into that working with the 02:27.047 --> 02:30.651 University of Memphis to look at five years of homicides so we 02:30.651 --> 02:33.587 can instead of just coming up with anecdotal data, 02:33.587 --> 02:36.390 that we can really look at it and have some specifics. 02:36.390 --> 02:41.028 Partner with the academics to look and see what we can do to 02:41.028 --> 02:42.029 change it. 02:42.029 --> 02:46.133 - And I think I've heard you say that most murders are between 02:46.133 --> 02:48.135 people who know each other, is that correct? 02:48.135 --> 02:49.136 - Without a doubt. 02:49.136 --> 02:52.105 - And so, is there a strange way in which people listening should 02:52.105 --> 02:55.675 feel somewhat safer in the sense that if you don't know someone 02:55.675 --> 02:57.811 who is selling drugs, doing drugs, 02:57.811 --> 02:59.813 I mean kind of engages in a gang member, 02:59.813 --> 03:02.883 that although the media puts these murder headlines out 03:02.883 --> 03:05.385 there, I mean what is the message that people who aren't 03:05.385 --> 03:09.423 engaged in gangs, drugs and so on? 03:09.423 --> 03:12.125 - The message to everyone is to be safe because, 03:12.125 --> 03:15.495 you know, somewhere between 18 to 20 percent of domestic 03:15.495 --> 03:16.863 violence related. 03:16.863 --> 03:18.932 So, these are people that are family members. 03:18.932 --> 03:23.103 They're engaged in sensitive relationships. 03:23.103 --> 03:24.204 Some of them are married. 03:24.204 --> 03:26.706 We just saw recently, you know, girlfriend, 03:26.706 --> 03:28.608 boyfriend, husband, wife. 03:28.608 --> 03:32.579 So, I think that, you know, yes, I agree with what you said. 03:32.579 --> 03:35.949 But I think that as a community we have to make a decision on 03:35.949 --> 03:40.053 what type of life we want to live. 03:40.053 --> 03:45.258 And I think that there's so much attraction to violence. 03:45.258 --> 03:46.793 It's on TV. 03:46.793 --> 03:48.862 It's on reality TV. 03:48.862 --> 03:50.430 It's in sports. 03:50.430 --> 03:53.033 It's unfortunately in the legislature. 03:53.033 --> 03:56.036 We see congressmen and senators, you know, 03:56.036 --> 03:57.637 talking about violence. 03:57.637 --> 04:00.740 And we see some of it spilling over to our national election. 04:00.740 --> 04:04.311 So, we as a country, as a community need to decide what we 04:04.311 --> 04:06.046 want to do, what's acceptable. 04:06.046 --> 04:09.516 The level of violence for me is unacceptable. 04:09.516 --> 04:11.785 We should all be outraged. 04:11.785 --> 04:13.520 - Bill? 04:13.520 --> 04:17.157 - You talked about the percentage of homicides that 04:17.157 --> 04:20.527 involve gang members or some kind of gang affiliation. 04:20.527 --> 04:24.564 Is that higher than it's been in the past? 04:24.564 --> 04:28.401 - I'm not so sure we really have dove over to that in the past. 04:28.401 --> 04:30.971 That's something we started looking at very hard this year. 04:30.971 --> 04:34.708 So, unless.. 04:34.708 --> 04:37.711 You know, that's what the five-year study is about. 04:37.711 --> 04:41.615 To go back and look and really do a deep dive in homicides. 04:41.615 --> 04:47.154 - And the reason I bring it up is because Chicago has had a 04:47.154 --> 04:48.488 tremendous problem. 04:48.488 --> 04:51.992 And one of the things that people there have talked about 04:51.992 --> 04:56.163 is that the discipline, if you will, 04:56.163 --> 05:00.934 among the gangs or the kind of tension that gang leaders have 05:00.934 --> 05:05.272 been able to diffuse or block off ha somewhat disintegrated 05:05.272 --> 05:09.242 and people think that's an element of what's happening in 05:09.242 --> 05:10.243 Chicago. 05:10.243 --> 05:11.611 - I can agree with that. 05:11.611 --> 05:16.516 I was in Chicago probably a month ago meeting with Chicago 05:16.516 --> 05:20.520 police and a number of other police chiefs from around the 05:20.520 --> 05:21.521 nation. 05:21.521 --> 05:24.157 And those are some of the things we talked about. 05:24.157 --> 05:26.626 What we're seeing now is there's no.. 05:26.626 --> 05:29.629 The traditional gang structure, we're not seeing. 05:29.629 --> 05:32.399 There are a lot of hybrid gangs of, 05:32.399 --> 05:34.401 you know, a mixture of gang members. 05:34.401 --> 05:39.839 So, the traditional challenges, the traditional responses that 05:39.839 --> 05:42.275 we've had, we're going to have to look at them and come up with 05:42.275 --> 05:46.112 something different to respond to this new type of involvement 05:46.112 --> 05:47.113 that we're in. 05:47.113 --> 05:49.115 - what were some of the traditional responses that you 05:49.115 --> 05:51.117 think are going to have to change? 05:51.117 --> 05:53.119 But traditionally you would do.. 05:53.119 --> 05:55.121 - Well, if you got a gang with structure, 05:55.121 --> 05:56.122 okay? 05:56.122 --> 05:58.258 Then you can, you know, really look hard at the leadership at 05:58.258 --> 05:59.259 that particular. 05:59.259 --> 06:02.796 But if you got a whole mixture of gangs just kind of.. 06:02.796 --> 06:05.298 - Maybe they say they're more affiliated but they're not 06:05.298 --> 06:08.368 necessarily a hierarchy in the way gangs used to be. 06:08.368 --> 06:09.369 - Yes. 06:09.369 --> 06:12.272 - So, a lot of discussion over the last couple of years about 06:12.272 --> 06:13.406 the number of police. 06:13.406 --> 06:15.742 There were a lot of people who left. 06:15.742 --> 06:19.646 I think the police force maxed out around 24-- or 2500. 06:19.646 --> 06:21.815 Mayor Strickland ran on that he wants to get back to that 06:21.815 --> 06:22.816 number. 06:22.816 --> 06:24.818 He's talked about it since he's been in office. 06:24.818 --> 06:26.820 To you, is there a magic number? 06:26.820 --> 06:29.789 I know Strickland has said 2400 and that's your goal. 06:29.789 --> 06:32.125 But to you, I mean, what is that number? 06:32.125 --> 06:33.994 - 2500 without a doubt. 06:33.994 --> 06:37.964 I've been a police chief of uniformed patrol to both 06:37.964 --> 06:38.965 districts. 06:38.965 --> 06:40.066 I started in 2009. 06:40.066 --> 06:42.402 I was trained commander in 2008. 06:42.402 --> 06:44.871 The number is 2500. 06:44.871 --> 06:46.773 Some people debate it. 06:46.773 --> 06:50.010 But again, they haven't been in the trenches like me and these 06:50.010 --> 06:51.044 men and women have. 06:51.044 --> 06:52.245 - What does that do for you? 06:52.245 --> 06:54.247 If you had a magic wand and you had, 06:54.247 --> 06:55.248 what would that be? 06:55.248 --> 06:57.250 Four or five hundred more police officers tomorrow. 06:57.250 --> 06:58.551 What would you do different? 06:58.551 --> 07:01.321 - Well first of all, we'll have adequate staffing to run our 07:01.321 --> 07:02.589 day-to-day operations. 07:02.589 --> 07:03.590 I mean, that's critical. 07:03.590 --> 07:05.592 With the addition of police officers, 07:05.592 --> 07:07.594 you know, we have five priorities. 07:07.594 --> 07:09.596 One of them is community outreach. 07:09.596 --> 07:11.598 We could do more community outreach, 07:11.598 --> 07:13.600 have a higher police presence, focus more on gangs and target 07:13.600 --> 07:15.602 kind of our top four crimes to make our community safer. 07:15.602 --> 07:17.604 You know, every day I talk about us not having staff. 07:17.604 --> 07:19.606 But every day we get more requests for police officers. 07:19.606 --> 07:24.611 So, you know, to respond to what the community wants, 07:32.686 --> 07:35.689 then we need to have staffing to do that. 07:35.689 --> 07:41.428 - So, I think there was just a promotion ceremony this week as 07:41.428 --> 07:42.429 we speak. 07:42.429 --> 07:43.430 Promotions are on the way. 07:43.430 --> 07:48.868 Last I heard, the academy class started at around a hundred and 07:48.868 --> 07:52.639 was down to 24, which is a problem that I think all police 07:52.639 --> 07:56.009 directors have faced because you can start out with a hundred. 07:56.009 --> 07:58.945 But you're usually not going to get a hundred in an academy 07:58.945 --> 08:00.580 class to go on to the streets. 08:00.580 --> 08:03.283 - Yeah, Bill, I'm not sure where you got those numbers from. 08:03.283 --> 08:05.785 Our goal was a hundred and we started somewhere in the 08:05.785 --> 08:06.886 forties. 08:06.886 --> 08:09.422 So, you know, our attrition rate, 08:09.422 --> 08:12.859 you know, runs between ten to fifteen percent. 08:12.859 --> 08:15.662 You don't want everybody to start and graduate. 08:15.662 --> 08:17.864 There's probably something went wrong with the program. 08:17.864 --> 08:20.367 But again, we're looking at everything. 08:20.367 --> 08:22.369 We're looking at what we're doing in recruiting and 08:22.369 --> 08:24.371 retention., We're looking at what we're teaching, 08:24.371 --> 08:27.707 what our curriculum is, what we cna do to attract good men and 08:27.707 --> 08:30.143 women to the Memphis Police Department. 08:32.445 --> 08:36.883 - How do you think police recruits people who say I want 08:36.883 --> 08:38.585 to be a police officer? 08:38.585 --> 08:43.857 How are they different from when you made that decision? 08:43.857 --> 08:44.858 - You know what? 08:44.858 --> 08:47.494 I'm not sure if they're fundamentally different. 08:47.494 --> 08:48.928 You know, I'm 50 now. 08:48.928 --> 08:50.930 So, I joined when I was in the twenties. 08:50.930 --> 08:54.667 So, definitely my eyes and what I know is a lot different than 08:54.667 --> 08:55.668 when I started. 08:55.668 --> 08:57.237 However, you know what? 08:57.237 --> 09:00.140 In talking to the recruits and talking to the PSTs, 09:00.140 --> 09:02.942 you know, these individuals are still committed to making a 09:02.942 --> 09:04.944 positive difference in the community. 09:04.944 --> 09:06.946 They're standing up to the challenge. 09:06.946 --> 09:09.716 You know, our last class, I've spent a lot of time with them. 09:09.716 --> 09:12.318 I'm able to talk to them and thank them for their commitment, 09:12.318 --> 09:15.855 thank them for their sacrifice, thank them for their desire to 09:15.855 --> 09:17.857 do something different than others, 09:17.857 --> 09:20.460 you know, may aspire to do but may not be qualified to do it. 09:20.460 --> 09:22.662 So, I think they're fundamentally the same. 09:22.662 --> 09:24.998 I think the nation is different. 09:24.998 --> 09:27.867 You know, we have mass media, social media, 09:27.867 --> 09:29.436 24-hour news cycle. 09:29.436 --> 09:32.739 There's more scrutiny on law enforcement than I remember any 09:32.739 --> 09:33.873 time in my career. 09:33.873 --> 09:35.875 So, we have a lot of challenges. 09:35.875 --> 09:38.545 But we still have men and women that are ready to step up to the 09:38.545 --> 09:39.546 challenge. 09:39.546 --> 09:43.550 - Does the faster pace of how things move, 09:43.550 --> 09:47.821 does it change the notion of patrolling and is community 09:47.821 --> 09:51.391 policing as a result of that, as a goal, 09:51.391 --> 09:54.360 is the nature of community policing different? 09:54.360 --> 09:56.362 Because there is that kind of connection. 09:56.362 --> 09:59.799 And word on the street travels much faster. 09:59.799 --> 10:02.235 - First, we have to define what community policing is. 10:02.235 --> 10:05.305 Because, you know, it means different things in different 10:05.305 --> 10:06.306 parts of the country. 10:06.306 --> 10:11.544 So, it can even mean different things in the city depending on 10:11.544 --> 10:12.545 who's asking. 10:12.545 --> 10:13.847 So, everything is different. 10:13.847 --> 10:16.082 You know, police officers are wearing body cams. 10:16.082 --> 10:18.885 We have 400 in car video systems. 10:18.885 --> 10:22.021 We'll have fully deployed our body cams before the year is 10:22.021 --> 10:23.022 out. 10:23.022 --> 10:25.024 You know, there's cell phone video. 10:25.024 --> 10:26.459 There's video everywhere. 10:26.459 --> 10:29.729 And like I said, the level of scrutiny is different. 10:29.729 --> 10:32.932 So, yes, it changes the behavior of the police officers. 10:32.932 --> 10:35.301 It definitely changes the behavior of the public. 10:35.301 --> 10:39.606 But, you know, we want officers to get out in the community. 10:39.606 --> 10:40.940 We want them to meet people. 10:40.940 --> 10:42.842 You know, sit and talk. 10:42.842 --> 10:46.179 It's a challenge when you answer a million calls a year. 10:46.179 --> 10:48.948 Two million calls come into our 911 call center. 10:48.948 --> 10:52.452 So, we're one of the busiest places in our region, 10:52.452 --> 10:54.053 if not the busiest. 10:54.053 --> 10:56.856 And we have to try to figure out what that balance is. 10:56.856 --> 10:59.626 And that's why that staffing question you asked earlier is so 10:59.626 --> 11:02.729 important because staffing allows you to respond to the 11:02.729 --> 11:04.397 high volume of calls. 11:04.397 --> 11:07.567 It allows you to respond to the crime and it allows you to 11:07.567 --> 11:09.636 respond to the needs of the community. 11:09.636 --> 11:12.138 - Politicians will say that legislators, 11:12.138 --> 11:15.775 city councilmen, come to me when you don't have a problem. 11:15.775 --> 11:17.777 Let me get to know you before you have a problem. 11:17.777 --> 11:19.779 Is that part of what you're talking about, 11:19.779 --> 11:21.781 that if you have more police on the streets, 11:21.781 --> 11:23.783 they can be out, they can see people when there's not a 11:23.783 --> 11:24.784 problem. 11:24.784 --> 11:26.786 They can get to know people so that when that call comes in, 11:26.786 --> 11:27.787 there's more of a connection? 11:27.787 --> 11:28.788 - Yes, without a doubt. 11:28.788 --> 11:30.790 - Scrutiny, you talked about scrutiny. 11:30.790 --> 11:32.792 Some of that, a lot of that comes for Ferguson, 11:32.792 --> 11:35.662 what happening in Ferguson and this whole national conversation 11:35.662 --> 11:40.333 and national spotlight on police shootings and the role of 11:40.333 --> 11:41.334 police. 11:41.334 --> 11:42.335 Your take on that? 11:42.335 --> 11:44.737 I've heard people describe quote the Ferguson effect two ways. 11:44.737 --> 11:47.807 That one, for police it makes them hesitant and it makes them 11:47.807 --> 11:49.542 hesitant to respond. 11:49.542 --> 11:51.911 They don't know what kind of scrutiny they're under. 11:51.911 --> 11:54.781 They don't know what kind of doubt and skepticism they might 11:54.781 --> 11:55.782 face. 11:55.782 --> 11:58.551 And then it also potentially has an effect on people who in 11:58.551 --> 12:01.220 communities that see a lot of crime, 12:01.220 --> 12:03.222 they don't have a trust in the police, 12:03.222 --> 12:05.325 that that's another way o defining the Ferguson effect. 12:05.325 --> 12:08.595 Do you see either or both of those things as a result of all 12:08.595 --> 12:11.364 this scrutiny of what's the proper role of police and when 12:11.364 --> 12:14.767 police can and should shoot someone and, 12:14.767 --> 12:16.936 you know, draw their weapon and so on? 12:16.936 --> 12:19.973 - You asked me a couple questions. 12:19.973 --> 12:21.708 - That whole debate. 12:21.708 --> 12:23.943 - Let's start at the top. 12:23.943 --> 12:27.380 You know, Director Conley came out strongly talking about the 12:27.380 --> 12:28.948 Ferguson effect. 12:28.948 --> 12:32.952 So, you know, there's a number of individuals kind of diving 12:32.952 --> 12:35.655 into that, trying to see is that a real effect. 12:35.655 --> 12:38.925 So, let's just look at it from a common sense standpoint. 12:38.925 --> 12:42.829 If anybody is scrutinized, every single move they make, 12:42.829 --> 12:45.565 everything they say, everything they do is scrutinized to the 12:45.565 --> 12:47.567 level that we see law enforcement, 12:47.567 --> 12:50.603 it's going to impact the decisions they make and the 12:50.603 --> 12:53.006 performance of their duties. 12:53.006 --> 12:56.509 Law enforcement is more responsive to change, 12:56.509 --> 13:00.880 more responsive to criticism than almost any incident in the 13:00.880 --> 13:02.315 United States. 13:02.315 --> 13:04.684 You know, we are accountable to the people we serve. 13:04.684 --> 13:07.887 So, we think about what happened after Ferguson. 13:07.887 --> 13:12.025 Let's look at it just from a strictly economic standpoint 13:12.025 --> 13:15.061 where we've seen many, many more protests, 13:15.061 --> 13:19.999 which means that we're devoting resources to protest. 13:19.999 --> 13:22.802 Those resources are not in the community. 13:22.802 --> 13:26.305 They're not doing their normal patrol duties because they are 13:26.305 --> 13:28.007 responding to protests. 13:28.007 --> 13:31.711 Think about the almost eight million dollars spent just in 13:31.711 --> 13:34.347 Ferguson alone during those protests. 13:34.347 --> 13:38.217 You know, you think this year we spent at least eight million 13:38.217 --> 13:42.655 dollars on the various protests that we've had in our protective 13:42.655 --> 13:45.491 posture after we've seen eight police officers killed. 13:45.491 --> 13:48.428 Biggest attack on law enforcement since 9/11. 13:48.428 --> 13:50.763 That affects your ability to police. 13:50.763 --> 13:53.433 Talk about body cameras and, you know, 13:53.433 --> 13:54.834 all the cell phone video. 13:54.834 --> 13:59.439 But what I would ask people to do is when there is a incident, 13:59.439 --> 14:02.075 allow an investigation to go through. 14:02.075 --> 14:04.444 You know, we call for a DOJ. 14:04.444 --> 14:05.945 We call for all these things. 14:05.945 --> 14:08.715 We call TBI to investigate our shootings. 14:08.715 --> 14:11.684 So, allow the investigation to go through. 14:11.684 --> 14:13.686 Let's review the facts. 14:13.686 --> 14:16.723 Where changes need to be made, we'll be responsive. 14:16.723 --> 14:18.725 We'll address those and make changes. 14:18.725 --> 14:20.993 - For you and for your officers, body cameras, 14:20.993 --> 14:22.995 you mentioned, those are rolling out delayed, 14:22.995 --> 14:24.997 but they're rolling out sometime this year. 14:24.997 --> 14:29.435 Does that give a police officer comfort or is it because there's 14:29.435 --> 14:31.437 a back up to what they say happened? 14:31.437 --> 14:32.438 This is what happened. 14:32.438 --> 14:33.439 This is what my camera shows. 14:33.439 --> 14:36.876 Or does it make them feel monitored and hesitant? 14:36.876 --> 14:39.979 What's the reaction among most police officers to having a body 14:39.979 --> 14:40.980 camera on? 14:40.980 --> 14:42.982 - Well, I'll answer your last thing first. 14:42.982 --> 14:43.983 We're sitting on live TV. 14:43.983 --> 14:45.985 So, everything we do is monitored. 14:45.985 --> 14:48.888 So, you know, if we sneeze or drop the ink pen, 14:48.888 --> 14:50.189 the whole world would see it. 14:50.189 --> 14:52.391 So, yes, it makes them feel monitored. 14:52.391 --> 14:55.094 But when I talk to officers on the street, 14:55.094 --> 14:57.797 talked to an officer the other day and I saw he had his body 14:57.797 --> 14:58.798 camera on him. 14:58.798 --> 14:59.799 I asked him how it was going. 14:59.799 --> 15:01.501 He said, I love it. 15:01.501 --> 15:02.502 I was kind of puzzled. 15:02.502 --> 15:04.504 I wasn't expecting that from him. 15:04.504 --> 15:06.506 I said a couple more things and he said, 15:06.506 --> 15:07.707 love it. 15:07.707 --> 15:08.708 I said, wow. 15:08.708 --> 15:10.510 Why do you love it? 15:10.510 --> 15:14.781 He said, it keeps us accountable and it keeps them accountable, 15:14.781 --> 15:15.782 too. 15:15.782 --> 15:18.317 I had a guy waving a cell phone in front o my face. 15:18.317 --> 15:20.319 Said, I'm recording you, I'm recording you. 15:20.319 --> 15:23.156 And he said, well sir, I have a public service announcement for 15:23.156 --> 15:24.157 you. 15:24.157 --> 15:25.391 I'm recording you, too. 15:25.391 --> 15:27.860 He said the guy suddenly calmed down. 15:27.860 --> 15:30.429 They were able to talk about whatever he was there for. 15:30.429 --> 15:34.100 So, again, we're definitely embracing body camera 15:34.100 --> 15:35.101 technology. 15:35.101 --> 15:37.103 The officers that I talk to love them. 15:39.372 --> 15:42.742 - Let's talk about the police department's response to the 15:42.742 --> 15:44.243 protest that we've seen. 15:44.243 --> 15:50.449 I'll start with the candlelight vigil at Graceland. 15:50.449 --> 15:55.454 There was some discussion about who was responsible for what 15:58.090 --> 15:59.091 there. 15:59.091 --> 16:02.829 Your police department in determining who was a protestor, 16:02.829 --> 16:04.163 who was there for the vigil. 16:04.163 --> 16:10.570 What did the officers rely on in terms of that judgement? 16:10.570 --> 16:14.674 - Well, you know, first, there is some pending litigation or 16:14.674 --> 16:15.675 could be. 16:15.675 --> 16:17.777 So, I really want to talk about that. 16:17.777 --> 16:20.012 What I want to talk about it that, 16:20.012 --> 16:23.850 you know, we had a plan where we would work at Graceland to keep 16:23.850 --> 16:25.117 that event safe. 16:25.117 --> 16:27.854 We had a number of threats of protests. 16:27.854 --> 16:30.623 And it wasn't we're going to protest. 16:30.623 --> 16:34.727 It was we're going to disrupt that candlelight vigil. 16:34.727 --> 16:38.064 And so, I'm proud of the response the men and women of 16:38.064 --> 16:41.500 the Memphis Police Department, Graceland Enterprises had to 16:41.500 --> 16:43.002 keep that event safe. 16:43.002 --> 16:45.738 Just yesterday I received a card from someone, 16:45.738 --> 16:49.675 I think form England that was here visiting and thanked us for 16:49.675 --> 16:53.713 our presence, our ability to keep that event safe. 16:53.713 --> 16:56.449 So, again, I'm proud of what we did. 16:56.449 --> 16:59.852 I'm proud that we walked away from that day, 16:59.852 --> 17:02.421 no one hurt, very few arrests. 17:02.421 --> 17:07.326 And Graceland was intact just as it was before we started. 17:07.326 --> 17:13.232 - So, do you think there was a threat beyond what actually 17:13.232 --> 17:15.468 happened there that evening? 17:15.468 --> 17:16.602 - Great question, Bill. 17:16.602 --> 17:18.704 Think about what's happened over the world. 17:18.704 --> 17:19.705 Nice, France. 17:19.705 --> 17:25.978 Truck runs down fireworks, kind of a Fourth of July celebration 17:25.978 --> 17:28.814 like we see here, runs over, you know. 17:28.814 --> 17:31.751 You know, I can't remember how many people were ran over and 17:31.751 --> 17:32.752 killed. 17:32.752 --> 17:34.754 So, we're on Elvis Presley Boulevard, 17:34.754 --> 17:35.888 a major thoroughfare. 17:35.888 --> 17:37.857 So, we were worried about that. 17:37.857 --> 17:41.460 We've seen international and domestic terrorist attacks. 17:41.460 --> 17:44.463 We've all forgotten that 49 Americans were killed in 17:44.463 --> 17:45.464 Orlando. 17:45.464 --> 17:48.734 Biggest attack on America since 9/11. 17:48.734 --> 17:51.037 Well, I don't forget about those things. 17:51.037 --> 17:54.740 You know, we just celebrated or commemorated the 15th 17:54.740 --> 17:56.275 anniversary of 9/11. 17:56.275 --> 17:58.678 The country has been at 15 years of war. 17:58.678 --> 18:02.081 So, the threat of international terrorism is real. 18:02.081 --> 18:05.151 The threat of domestic terrorism is real. 18:05.151 --> 18:08.821 The threat of violence is every present and it's our job to 18:08.821 --> 18:11.190 respond to that, to mitigate that. 18:11.190 --> 18:14.327 Keep our visitors and our citizens safe and that's exactly 18:14.327 --> 18:15.795 what we did. 18:15.795 --> 18:20.466 - Is there a point at which you look at the preparations for 18:20.466 --> 18:22.969 these events knowing that there's going to be some kind of 18:22.969 --> 18:23.970 protest? 18:23.970 --> 18:26.639 Is there a point at which you look at the preparations and 18:26.639 --> 18:30.576 say, I think we maybe too.. 18:30.576 --> 18:33.879 Is there such a thing as being too visible in terms of the 18:33.879 --> 18:38.451 police presence when you have that kind of a situation? 18:38.451 --> 18:40.453 - Well, there's a balance, you know. 18:40.453 --> 18:42.755 First of all, we don't know every single thing that people 18:42.755 --> 18:43.923 are planning. 18:43.923 --> 18:45.925 Let's take Southern Heritage Classic. 18:45.925 --> 18:48.494 We had a very heavy police presence in and around the 18:48.494 --> 18:50.763 stadium, in and around the tailgates, 18:50.763 --> 18:53.766 in and around Beale Street because we want our visitors and 18:53.766 --> 18:57.069 our citizens to come enjoy venues and be safe. 18:57.069 --> 19:00.039 So, public safety is something we work on every single day. 19:00.039 --> 19:02.008 We're going to remain vigilant. 19:02.008 --> 19:04.010 We're going to do what we think is good. 19:04.010 --> 19:06.779 And there's always a balance and you have to decide what that 19:06.779 --> 19:07.913 balance is. 19:07.913 --> 19:10.683 But when you have, you know, threats that are articulated, 19:10.683 --> 19:15.521 you know that there's the ever-presence of kind of unrest 19:15.521 --> 19:19.792 or violence because, you know, you may decide that you're going 19:19.792 --> 19:23.629 to protest, you know, not parking on the grass or being up 19:23.629 --> 19:24.997 another recent one. 19:24.997 --> 19:29.702 Someone else may come up and have a weapon or have a more 19:29.702 --> 19:33.973 nefarious plan that you're not partied to. 19:33.973 --> 19:37.076 But when you get people gathering and there's a threat, 19:37.076 --> 19:39.945 it's our job to stand there and protect people. 19:39.945 --> 19:43.149 Protect their right to protest, protect their right to assemble. 19:43.149 --> 19:46.685 We just want everything to be done lawfully and in order. 19:46.685 --> 19:52.224 - What has the dialog been like since July 10 when we had the 19:52.224 --> 19:59.065 bridge protest, kind of the really important moment in the 19:59.065 --> 20:00.633 whole discussion of this? 20:00.633 --> 20:03.769 Has the discussion been able to continue between you and the 20:03.769 --> 20:06.839 protest leaders or what's that dialog been like? 20:06.839 --> 20:09.241 - There have been a number of conversations. 20:09.241 --> 20:11.343 So, you know, the Mayor's taken a lot. 20:11.343 --> 20:13.579 I want to applaud the Mayor for his openness, 20:13.579 --> 20:15.648 his responsiveness. 20:15.648 --> 20:19.385 We have responded to every single thing that the protestors 20:19.385 --> 20:20.386 have put on the table. 20:20.386 --> 20:22.621 We will continue the dialog. 20:22.621 --> 20:26.625 I've met with anyone who wants to meet and we will continue to 20:26.625 --> 20:28.727 do those things because, you know, 20:28.727 --> 20:30.329 like I told on the bridge. 20:30.329 --> 20:32.798 Okay, bridge is shut down. 20:32.798 --> 20:34.100 What's your next goal? 20:34.100 --> 20:37.870 What do you want to accomplish in the next 30 minutes to the 20:37.870 --> 20:39.371 next hour? 20:39.371 --> 20:41.373 And Director, we want this, we want that. 20:41.373 --> 20:44.543 I said, do you think we're going to accomplish that standing in 20:44.543 --> 20:46.178 this bridge? 20:46.178 --> 20:47.413 And my thing was simple. 20:47.413 --> 20:49.582 We can't talk on this bridge. 20:49.582 --> 20:50.750 It's not safe. 20:50.750 --> 20:51.984 There are children up here. 20:51.984 --> 20:53.986 There are women. 20:53.986 --> 20:54.987 There are men. 20:54.987 --> 20:57.990 The bridge is made for cars and trucks. 20:57.990 --> 20:59.992 It's not made for pedestrian traffic. 20:59.992 --> 21:01.360 We have to get off this bridge. 21:01.360 --> 21:03.362 That's exactly what we did. 21:03.362 --> 21:05.698 We can talk 'til we are blue in the face. 21:05.698 --> 21:09.435 But once you protest, you got to come to the table and talk and 21:09.435 --> 21:11.770 work out and say, okay, what do we want. 21:11.770 --> 21:12.771 What are the goals? 21:12.771 --> 21:13.772 How do we get there? 21:13.772 --> 21:16.675 Because that is a process. 21:16.675 --> 21:18.677 - We got just five minutes left. 21:18.677 --> 21:20.679 We can talk about the bridge a whole lot more. 21:20.679 --> 21:22.681 But I'm going to shift on because right now, 21:22.681 --> 21:25.284 the marijuana ordinance the city council has proposed to 21:25.284 --> 21:28.821 decriminalizes certain amounts of marijuana. 21:28.821 --> 21:32.491 You've been opposed to, at best weary, 21:32.491 --> 21:33.492 of this ordinance. 21:33.492 --> 21:34.493 Is that a fair way to say it? 21:34.493 --> 21:36.262 And tell me why. 21:36.262 --> 21:38.297 Tell me your concerns about the ordinance. 21:38.297 --> 21:40.132 - I have a number of concerns. 21:40.132 --> 21:42.201 First of all, as the police director, 21:42.201 --> 21:44.403 I'm not going to promote marijuana smoking. 21:44.403 --> 21:47.573 We have an epidemic of drugs sweeping the nation. 21:47.573 --> 21:51.944 We can line up folks on both sides of the table and talk 21:51.944 --> 21:53.946 about is marijuana a gateway drug. 21:53.946 --> 21:57.316 Well, I tell you what I see on the street. 21:57.316 --> 22:01.287 So, on the street, you know, marijuana becomes a secondary. 22:01.287 --> 22:04.557 When an officer makes a stop, sees guns, 22:04.557 --> 22:07.927 you know, a person has warrants and they have marijuana in their 22:07.927 --> 22:08.928 pocket. 22:08.928 --> 22:12.097 Or officer makes a stop, individual rolls down the 22:12.097 --> 22:15.067 window, marijuana smoke comes barreling out. 22:15.067 --> 22:19.071 So, that's just from what we see and the interaction with 22:19.071 --> 22:20.072 marijuana. 22:20.072 --> 22:22.508 The second point is, you know, someone said it the other day. 22:22.508 --> 22:25.144 And, you know, if you're standing, 22:25.144 --> 22:27.213 sitting at home, smoking marijuana all day, 22:27.213 --> 22:29.915 get up in the morning and smoke, it's going to be very hard for 22:29.915 --> 22:31.450 you to be productive. 22:31.450 --> 22:34.854 I want to encourage young people to seek employment, 22:34.854 --> 22:37.957 gain employment and maintain the employment. 22:37.957 --> 22:41.160 Marijuana probably is not going to help you outside of that 22:41.160 --> 22:43.963 subculture where drug use is okay. 22:43.963 --> 22:45.931 We're in a heroin epidemic. 22:45.931 --> 22:50.336 We have over 70 deaths from heroin. 22:50.336 --> 22:52.571 So, when I talk to people that are doing rehab, 22:52.571 --> 22:58.477 drug rehab specifically, they talk about how marijuana gets 22:58.477 --> 23:00.579 people to a tougher drug. 23:00.579 --> 23:03.582 Start smoking marijuana, may graduate with the pills. 23:03.582 --> 23:06.085 From pills maybe to heroin. 23:06.085 --> 23:09.021 - I don't think anyone would debate that heroin and pill and 23:09.021 --> 23:11.824 crack epidemic that the country has seen. 23:11.824 --> 23:12.825 Cocaine. 23:12.825 --> 23:14.827 But, you know, certain states have legalized marijuana at this 23:14.827 --> 23:15.828 point. 23:15.828 --> 23:17.830 And that seems to be the trend in the country is that, 23:17.830 --> 23:20.299 you know, more and more states are legalizing it saying that 23:20.299 --> 23:21.300 that's just not an issue. 23:21.300 --> 23:22.301 It's like alcohol. 23:22.301 --> 23:23.302 People can abuse alcohol. 23:23.302 --> 23:24.303 They can abuse alcohol. 23:24.303 --> 23:26.272 Alcohol can lead to alcoholism. 23:26.272 --> 23:28.274 But you see a more direct connection. 23:28.274 --> 23:30.209 - Yes, very poor comparison. 23:30.209 --> 23:32.711 The jury is still out. 23:32.711 --> 23:34.713 At one time, we believed the world was flat. 23:34.713 --> 23:37.549 And people would not go out and venture so they wouldn't fall 23:37.549 --> 23:38.651 off the side of the earth. 23:38.651 --> 23:41.820 So, we need to really slow down and let the jury, 23:41.820 --> 23:43.222 you know, come out and see. 23:43.222 --> 23:48.227 Because in Colorado, they've had increases in DUI where marijuana 23:48.227 --> 23:51.530 was the drug of choice. 23:51.530 --> 23:54.333 They've seen increases in violence related to marijuana. 23:54.333 --> 23:56.969 But let me get back to the ordinance since we're here in 23:56.969 --> 23:57.970 Memphis. 23:57.970 --> 24:00.306 You know, originally the ordinance did not allow the 24:00.306 --> 24:01.607 option of discretion. 24:01.607 --> 24:05.477 The officers ability to have discretion is critical. 24:05.477 --> 24:07.112 That was changed. 24:07.112 --> 24:11.016 I still have, you know, a little apprehension about the amounts. 24:11.016 --> 24:12.017 - Discretion to do what? 24:12.017 --> 24:14.019 And I apologize for interrupting. 24:14.019 --> 24:16.755 - Discretion to go with a state charge or issue a city 24:16.755 --> 24:17.756 ordinance. 24:17.756 --> 24:22.428 Because the thing about it is the officer on the street has to 24:22.428 --> 24:24.730 look at the circumstance. 24:24.730 --> 24:30.269 So, you know, is the marijuana packaged for individual sale? 24:30.269 --> 24:32.705 Is there a gun? 24:32.705 --> 24:36.875 Are there other charges where one court should hear the whole 24:36.875 --> 24:39.945 thing versus breaking it out in other courts? 24:39.945 --> 24:42.448 - Just a couple of minutes left and we talk about a show about 24:42.448 --> 24:44.450 the issues I'll bring up right now. 24:44.450 --> 24:47.419 Part of the motive of Martavius Jones on the city council has 24:47.419 --> 24:50.356 said that this is partly to take some of these small level 24:50.356 --> 24:54.360 offenses that disproportionately affect African-Americans, 24:54.360 --> 24:56.362 particularly young African-American men, 24:56.362 --> 24:58.364 and start them down the road of criminal justice. 24:58.364 --> 25:00.799 Take away for the second the path to heroin. 25:00.799 --> 25:02.835 But just small amounts of marijuana. 25:02.835 --> 25:04.370 They liken it to taillights. 25:04.370 --> 25:05.604 Three hundred dollar fines. 25:05.604 --> 25:06.839 Suspended licenses. 25:06.839 --> 25:09.808 All those small offenses that begin to pile up fines, 25:09.808 --> 25:12.177 begin to pile up a night in jail, 25:12.177 --> 25:13.746 two nights in jails. 25:13.746 --> 25:15.881 And does, from your point of view as a police officer, 25:15.881 --> 25:19.251 does there need to be reform of those small offenses that, 25:19.251 --> 25:21.253 again, so many people are saying, 25:21.253 --> 25:23.655 look, this is hitting the African-American community 25:23.655 --> 25:24.656 particularly hard. 25:24.656 --> 25:26.859 - Well I'm African-American if you noticed. 25:26.859 --> 25:28.894 I am concerned about everything that impacts the 25:28.894 --> 25:29.962 African-American community. 25:29.962 --> 25:32.598 I'm definitely committed to reducing the amount of 25:32.598 --> 25:35.267 African-Americans that enter into the criminal justice 25:35.267 --> 25:36.268 system. 25:36.268 --> 25:41.640 So, the only thing I ask for is let Nashville figure out how 25:41.640 --> 25:43.041 this is going to run. 25:43.041 --> 25:48.447 Give them time to work it out in terms of their ordinance that's 25:48.447 --> 25:51.083 moving through metro. 25:51.083 --> 25:54.420 Metro and Memphis are two different entities because Metro 25:54.420 --> 25:56.422 has a consolidated government. 25:56.422 --> 25:59.992 Memphis, you're talking about general sessions court and 25:59.992 --> 26:01.994 you're talking about city court. 26:01.994 --> 26:04.596 But the other issue is just to make sure we have robust 26:04.596 --> 26:07.966 conversation, we bring everybody to the table so we make an 26:07.966 --> 26:09.334 educated decision. 26:09.334 --> 26:10.335 - We are out of time. 26:10.335 --> 26:12.337 We could have talked about that for 20 more minutes. 26:12.337 --> 26:13.338 Thank you for being here. 26:13.338 --> 26:14.339 Thank you, Bill. 26:14.339 --> 26:15.340 Thank you for joining us. 26:15.340 --> 26:20.345 Join us again next week. 26:22.748 --> 26:27.753 [theme music]