>>> THE NEED TO CONSERVE WATER
IN ARIZONA IS A GIVEN.
IN ARIZONA IS A GIVEN.
YET THERE'S A LONG WAY TO GO AND
YET THERE'S A LONG WAY TO GO AND
LACK OF CONSENSUS ON DIRECTION.
LACK OF CONSENSUS ON DIRECTION.
>> EVENTUALLY, ARIZONA WILL HAVE
>> EVENTUALLY, ARIZONA WILL HAVE
MORE WATER DEMANDS BECAUSE IT
MORE WATER DEMANDS BECAUSE IT
WILL HAVE MORE PEOPLE THAN THE
WILL HAVE MORE PEOPLE THAN THE
EXISTING WATER SUPPLY.
EXISTING WATER SUPPLY.
WHICH MEANS THAT WE'LL HAVE TO
WHICH MEANS THAT WE'LL HAVE TO
FIND MORE WATER SOMEWHERE.
FIND MORE WATER SOMEWHERE.
WE CAN'T CONSERVE OUR WAY OUT OF
WE CAN'T CONSERVE OUR WAY OUT OF
IT.
IT.
>> THAT AND ANOTHER VIEW ON
>> THAT AND ANOTHER VIEW ON
WATER, PLUS 50 YEARS AFTER JOHN
WATER, PLUS 50 YEARS AFTER JOHN
F. KENNEDY'S DEATH, WE LOOK AT
F. KENNEDY'S DEATH, WE LOOK AT
HIS CONNECTIONS TO OUR STATE.
HIS CONNECTIONS TO OUR STATE.
IT'S "ARIZONA WEEK."
IT'S "ARIZONA WEEK."
>> PRODUCTION OF ARIZONA WEEK IS
>> PRODUCTION OF ARIZONA WEEK IS
MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY A GRANT
MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY A GRANT
FROM THE STONEWALL FOUNDATION
FROM THE STONEWALL FOUNDATION
AND FROM THE MEMBERS OF ARIZONA
AND FROM THE MEMBERS OF ARIZONA
PUBLIC MEDIA.
PUBLIC MEDIA.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED
THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED
SUPPORT.
ONCE AGAIN, YOUR MODERATOR,
MICHAEL CHIHAK.
MICHAEL CHIHAK.
>> BEHIND MANY ECONOMIC AND
>> BEHIND MANY ECONOMIC AND
POLITICAL SOCIAL DECISIONS IN
POLITICAL SOCIAL DECISIONS IN
ARIZONA IS THE QUESTION OF WHERE
ARIZONA IS THE QUESTION OF WHERE
WE WILL GET WATER OR IF IT ISN'T
WE WILL GET WATER OR IF IT ISN'T
PART OF SUCH DISCUSSIONS, IT
PART OF SUCH DISCUSSIONS, IT
SHOULD BE.
SHOULD BE.
TALK OF THE STATE'S SHORT TERM
TALK OF THE STATE'S SHORT TERM
AND LONG TERM WATER ISSUES
AND LONG TERM WATER ISSUES
ABOUND AND MUCH IS IN THE WORKS.
ABOUND AND MUCH IS IN THE WORKS.
THIS WEEK, THE MORRISON
THIS WEEK, THE MORRISON
INSTITUTE FOR PUBLIC POLICY AT
INSTITUTE FOR PUBLIC POLICY AT
ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY HELD A
ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY HELD A
FORUM ON WATER AND AZPM'S
FORUM ON WATER AND AZPM'S
CHRISTOPHER CONOVER CAUGHT UP
CHRISTOPHER CONOVER CAUGHT UP
WITH ONE OF ITS PARTICIPANTS,
WITH ONE OF ITS PARTICIPANTS,
FORMER U.S. SENATOR JON KYL, WHO
FORMER U.S. SENATOR JON KYL, WHO
REMAINS ACTIVE IN ARIZONA'S
REMAINS ACTIVE IN ARIZONA'S
WATER FUTURE.
WATER FUTURE.
>> SENATOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH
>> SENATOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH
FOR SITTING DOWN WITH US.
FOR SITTING DOWN WITH US.
>> GLAD TO BE HERE.
>> GLAD TO BE HERE.
>> YOU JUST SPENT ABOUT AN HOUR
>> YOU JUST SPENT ABOUT AN HOUR
DOING A PANEL DISCUSSION TALKING
DOING A PANEL DISCUSSION TALKING
ABOUT WATER AND ONE OF THE BIG
ABOUT WATER AND ONE OF THE BIG
TAKE-AWAYS I HEARD FROM YOU WAS
TAKE-AWAYS I HEARD FROM YOU WAS
IT'S A TWOFOLD PROBLEM.
IT'S A TWOFOLD PROBLEM.
SHORT TERM AND LONG TERM.
SHORT TERM AND LONG TERM.
FOR ARIZONA AND REALLY, THE
FOR ARIZONA AND REALLY, THE
NATION AS A WHOLE, BUT REALLY,
NATION AS A WHOLE, BUT REALLY,
ARIZONA.
ARIZONA.
IF YOU CAN FOR OUR VIEWERS, TALK
IF YOU CAN FOR OUR VIEWERS, TALK
A LITTLE ABOUT SOME OF THE SHORT
A LITTLE ABOUT SOME OF THE SHORT
TERM VERSUS LONG TERM PROBLEMS.
TERM VERSUS LONG TERM PROBLEMS.
>> SURE.
>> SURE.
FIRST LET'S TALK ABOUT LONG
FIRST LET'S TALK ABOUT LONG
TERM, BECAUSE THAT'S MORE EASILY
TERM, BECAUSE THAT'S MORE EASILY
UNDERSTOOD.
UNDERSTOOD.
EVENTUALLY, ARIZONA WILL HAVE
EVENTUALLY, ARIZONA WILL HAVE
MORE WATER DEMANDS BECAUSE IT
MORE WATER DEMANDS BECAUSE IT
WILL HAVE MORE PEOPLE THAN THE
WILL HAVE MORE PEOPLE THAN THE
EXISTING WATER SUPPLY, WHICH
EXISTING WATER SUPPLY, WHICH
MEANS THAT WE WILL HAVE TO FIND
MEANS THAT WE WILL HAVE TO FIND
MORE WATER SOMEWHERE.
MORE WATER SOMEWHERE.
WE CAN'T CONSERVE OUR WAY OUT OF
WE CAN'T CONSERVE OUR WAY OUT OF
IT.
IT.
THAT HELPS BUT IT'S NOT THE
THAT HELPS BUT IT'S NOT THE
SILVER BULLET.
SILVER BULLET.
SO AUGMENTATION OF OUR WATER
SO AUGMENTATION OF OUR WATER
SUPPLY EVENTUALLY WILL BE PART
SUPPLY EVENTUALLY WILL BE PART
OF THE SOLUTION, AND THAT WILL
OF THE SOLUTION, AND THAT WILL
BE VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE,
BE VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE,
SOMETHING LIKE DESALINIZATION.
SOMETHING LIKE DESALINIZATION.
THAT'S DOWN THE ROAD.
THAT'S DOWN THE ROAD.
WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TODAY
WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TODAY
TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD AND DEVELOP
TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD AND DEVELOP
POLITICAL SUPPORT FOR THOSE
POLITICAL SUPPORT FOR THOSE
SOLUTIONS SO THEY ARE IN PLACE
SOLUTIONS SO THEY ARE IN PLACE
AND READY WHEN THE TIME COMES.
AND READY WHEN THE TIME COMES.
IN THE SHORT TERM, WE HAVE A
IN THE SHORT TERM, WE HAVE A
VARIETY OF ISSUES THAT HAVE TO
VARIETY OF ISSUES THAT HAVE TO
BE DEALT WITH.
BE DEALT WITH.
FIRST, WE HAVE BEEN ENGAGED NOW
FIRST, WE HAVE BEEN ENGAGED NOW
FOR SEVERAL DECADES IN THE WATER
FOR SEVERAL DECADES IN THE WATER
ADJUDICATION, FIGURING OUT WHO
ADJUDICATION, FIGURING OUT WHO
HAS THE RIGHTS TO THE SURFACE
HAS THE RIGHTS TO THE SURFACE
WATER IN THE STATE.
WATER IN THE STATE.
WE'VE MADE A LOT OF HEADWAY IN
WE'VE MADE A LOT OF HEADWAY IN
COURT.
COURT.
THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL INDIAN
THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL INDIAN
WATER SETTLEMENTS BECAUSE INDIAN
WATER SETTLEMENTS BECAUSE INDIAN
TRIBES ARE CLAIMANTS AND WHEN
TRIBES ARE CLAIMANTS AND WHEN
THE PARTIES CAN GET TOGETHER AND
THE PARTIES CAN GET TOGETHER AND
SETTLE THOSE DIFFERENCES RATHER
SETTLE THOSE DIFFERENCES RATHER
THAN FIGHTING ABOUT THEM IN
THAN FIGHTING ABOUT THEM IN
COURT, THAT'S A BIG PIECE OF THE
COURT, THAT'S A BIG PIECE OF THE
PUZZLE SOLVED.
PUZZLE SOLVED.
BUT THE CONGRESS ISN'T GOING TO
BUT THE CONGRESS ISN'T GOING TO
HAVE ANY MORE MONEY TO SUPPORT
HAVE ANY MORE MONEY TO SUPPORT
THESE INDIAN WATER SETTLEMENTS
THESE INDIAN WATER SETTLEMENTS
IN THE NEAR TERM, SO THAT'S A
IN THE NEAR TERM, SO THAT'S A
PROBLEM.
PROBLEM.
SECONDLY, THERE ARE SOME LEGAL
SECONDLY, THERE ARE SOME LEGAL
ISSUES THAT HAVE BECOME VERY,
ISSUES THAT HAVE BECOME VERY,
VERY DIFFICULT.
VERY DIFFICULT.
AND THIRD, THE STATE COURT THAT
AND THIRD, THE STATE COURT THAT
ADJUDICATES THESE WATER CLAIMS
ADJUDICATES THESE WATER CLAIMS
HAS THE ASSISTANCE OF THE
HAS THE ASSISTANCE OF THE
DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES AS
DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES AS
ITS TECHNICAL SUPPORT ENTITY.
ITS TECHNICAL SUPPORT ENTITY.
THEY BRING ALL THE DATA TO THE
THEY BRING ALL THE DATA TO THE
TABLE AND INTERPRET IT FOR THE
TABLE AND INTERPRET IT FOR THE
COURT.
COURT.
IF THEY'RE NOT ADEQUATELY FUNDED
IF THEY'RE NOT ADEQUATELY FUNDED
SO THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE THE
SO THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE THE
ANALYSIS THE COURT NEEDS, THEN
ANALYSIS THE COURT NEEDS, THEN
THE COURT COULD DECIDE THAT IT
THE COURT COULD DECIDE THAT IT
CANNOT USE THE ARIZONA COURT
CANNOT USE THE ARIZONA COURT
SYSTEM TO RESOLVE THESE THINGS
SYSTEM TO RESOLVE THESE THINGS
AND IT MAY TRY TO GO TO THE
AND IT MAY TRY TO GO TO THE
FEDERAL COURT, WHERE SOME OF THE
FEDERAL COURT, WHERE SOME OF THE
PARTIES WOULD RATHER BE.
PARTIES WOULD RATHER BE.
WELL, THAT WOULD UPSET AN ENTIRE
WELL, THAT WOULD UPSET AN ENTIRE
APPLE CART OF LAW THAT WE HAVE
APPLE CART OF LAW THAT WE HAVE
DEVELOPED OVER THE LAST SEVERAL
DEVELOPED OVER THE LAST SEVERAL
DECADES HERE, SO AMONG THE SHORT
DECADES HERE, SO AMONG THE SHORT
TERM PROBLEMS ARE JUST FUNDING
TERM PROBLEMS ARE JUST FUNDING
THE DEPARTMENT OF WATER
THE DEPARTMENT OF WATER
RESOURCES SO IT CAN PROVIDE THE
RESOURCES SO IT CAN PROVIDE THE
TECHNICAL EXPERTISE TO THE
TECHNICAL EXPERTISE TO THE
COURT, FIND A WAY TO CONTINUE TO
COURT, FIND A WAY TO CONTINUE TO
GET INDIAN WATER SETTLEMENTS
GET INDIAN WATER SETTLEMENTS
ACCOMPLISHED, FIND A WAY TO DEAL
ACCOMPLISHED, FIND A WAY TO DEAL
WITH PROBLEMS LIKE THE NAVAJO
WITH PROBLEMS LIKE THE NAVAJO
GENERATING STATION WHICH
GENERATING STATION WHICH
PROVIDES THE POWER BY WHICH
PROVIDES THE POWER BY WHICH
CENTRAL ARIZONA PROJECT WATER IS
CENTRAL ARIZONA PROJECT WATER IS
PUMPED AND DELIVERED AT A MUCH
PUMPED AND DELIVERED AT A MUCH
LESS EXPENSIVE RATE THAN WOULD
LESS EXPENSIVE RATE THAN WOULD
BE THE CASE OTHERWISE, A VARIETY
BE THE CASE OTHERWISE, A VARIETY
OF SHORT AND INTERMEDIATE RANGE
OF SHORT AND INTERMEDIATE RANGE
PROBLEMS LIKE THAT THAT REQUIRE
PROBLEMS LIKE THAT THAT REQUIRE
OUR ATTENTION.
OUR ATTENTION.
>> YOU TOUCHED ON A NUMBER OF
>> YOU TOUCHED ON A NUMBER OF
THINGS BUT ONE OF THE THINGS YOU
THINGS BUT ONE OF THE THINGS YOU
JUST MENTIONED WAS ARIZONA'S
JUST MENTIONED WAS ARIZONA'S
COURTS RESOLVING SOME OF THIS
COURTS RESOLVING SOME OF THIS
ADJUDICATION.
ADJUDICATION.
ARIZONA IS IN A UNIQUE POSITION
ARIZONA IS IN A UNIQUE POSITION
THAT OUR STATE COURTS CAN DO
THAT OUR STATE COURTS CAN DO
THAT.
THAT.
WE DON'T HAVE TO GO TO CONGRESS
WE DON'T HAVE TO GO TO CONGRESS
OR THE FEDERAL COURTS FOR THIS.
OR THE FEDERAL COURTS FOR THIS.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
AND WHEN THE SUPREME COURT MADE
AND WHEN THE SUPREME COURT MADE
ITS HISTORIC DECISION THAT THE
ITS HISTORIC DECISION THAT THE
ARIZONA COURT SYSTEM WAS THE
ARIZONA COURT SYSTEM WAS THE
PROPER PLACE FOR EVERYBODY, THE
PROPER PLACE FOR EVERYBODY, THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THE INDIAN
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THE INDIAN
TRIBES, THE STATE CLAIMANTS,
TRIBES, THE STATE CLAIMANTS,
EVERYBODY ELSE, TO BE IN ONE
EVERYBODY ELSE, TO BE IN ONE
PLACE TO HAVE ALL OF THE CLAIMS
PLACE TO HAVE ALL OF THE CLAIMS
ASSERTED ONE AGAINST ANOTHER SO
ASSERTED ONE AGAINST ANOTHER SO
THAT WHEN A COURT FINALLY MAKES
THAT WHEN A COURT FINALLY MAKES
A DECISION AND SAYS HERE'S THE
A DECISION AND SAYS HERE'S THE
DECREE, YOU HAVE THE FIRST RIGHT
DECREE, YOU HAVE THE FIRST RIGHT
TO THIS MUCH WATER, YOU HAVE THE
TO THIS MUCH WATER, YOU HAVE THE
SECOND RIGHT TO THIS MUCH WATER
SECOND RIGHT TO THIS MUCH WATER
AND SO ON DOWN THE LINE, IT
AND SO ON DOWN THE LINE, IT
APPLIES TO EVERYBODY EQUALLY.
APPLIES TO EVERYBODY EQUALLY.
JUST IMAGINE THE SITUATION IF
JUST IMAGINE THE SITUATION IF
YOU HAD FEDERAL COURTS ISSUING
YOU HAD FEDERAL COURTS ISSUING
ONE DECREE AND THE STATE COURTS
ONE DECREE AND THE STATE COURTS
ISSUING A COMPETING DECREE.
ISSUING A COMPETING DECREE.
HOW DO YOU RESOLVE THAT?
HOW DO YOU RESOLVE THAT?
SO THE SUPREME COURT SAID GET
SO THE SUPREME COURT SAID GET
TOGETHER, ONE PLACE, STATE COURT
TOGETHER, ONE PLACE, STATE COURT
IS THE RIGHT PLACE BECAUSE THE
IS THE RIGHT PLACE BECAUSE THE
STATE CAN BE SUPPORTED BY THE
STATE CAN BE SUPPORTED BY THE
DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES
DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES
AND THE ARIZONA LAW THAT ENABLES
AND THE ARIZONA LAW THAT ENABLES
THAT SUPPORT.
THAT SUPPORT.
>> AS ARIZONA CONTINUES TO GROW,
>> AS ARIZONA CONTINUES TO GROW,
OBVIOUSLY YOU SAID WE CAN'T
OBVIOUSLY YOU SAID WE CAN'T
CONSERVE OUR WAY OUT OF THIS.
CONSERVE OUR WAY OUT OF THIS.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TURN TO
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TURN TO
SCIENCE AND INDUSTRY.
SCIENCE AND INDUSTRY.
IS THERE EVER GOING TO BE A
IS THERE EVER GOING TO BE A
POINT OR I GUESS MORE CORRECTLY,
POINT OR I GUESS MORE CORRECTLY,
THERE WILL BE A POINT WHERE
THERE WILL BE A POINT WHERE
ARIZONA'S GOING TO LOOK
ARIZONA'S GOING TO LOOK
DIFFERENT AS A RESULT OF WATER.
DIFFERENT AS A RESULT OF WATER.
WHAT DO YOU THINK ARIZONA WILL
WHAT DO YOU THINK ARIZONA WILL
LOOK LIKE IN THE FUTURE
LOOK LIKE IN THE FUTURE
REGARDING WATER?
REGARDING WATER?
>> IT'S ALREADY LOOKING A LOT
>> IT'S ALREADY LOOKING A LOT
DIFFERENT.
DIFFERENT.
A LOT OF WATER THAT HAD BEEN
A LOT OF WATER THAT HAD BEEN
USED FOR AGRICULTURE IS NOW
USED FOR AGRICULTURE IS NOW
BEING USED FOR DOMESTIC AND
BEING USED FOR DOMESTIC AND
INDUSTRIAL USE.
INDUSTRIAL USE.
WATER -- AGRICULTURE CONSUMES A
WATER -- AGRICULTURE CONSUMES A
LOT OF WATER AND SO THAT'S ONE
LOT OF WATER AND SO THAT'S ONE
WAY THE STATE LOOKS DIFFERENT
WAY THE STATE LOOKS DIFFERENT
NOW THAN IT DID LET'S SAY 30
NOW THAN IT DID LET'S SAY 30
YEARS AGO.
YEARS AGO.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE SOME
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE SOME
TOUGH DECISIONS.
TOUGH DECISIONS.
DO WE WANT PHOENIX, FOR EXAMPLE,
DO WE WANT PHOENIX, FOR EXAMPLE,
TO LOOK A LOT LIKE THE MORE
TO LOOK A LOT LIKE THE MORE
DESERT ORIENTED COMMUNITY OF
DESERT ORIENTED COMMUNITY OF
TUCSON.
TUCSON.
THEY DON'T USE AS MUCH WATER PER
THEY DON'T USE AS MUCH WATER PER
CAPITA AS WE DO IN PHOENIX, BUT
CAPITA AS WE DO IN PHOENIX, BUT
A LOT OF THE WEALTH THAT IS
A LOT OF THE WEALTH THAT IS
GENERATED FOR THE STATE COMES AS
GENERATED FOR THE STATE COMES AS
A RESULT OF THE ENVIRONMENT THAT
A RESULT OF THE ENVIRONMENT THAT
WE HAVE HERE IN THE SALT RIVER
WE HAVE HERE IN THE SALT RIVER
VALLEY WITH ALL THE RESORTS AND
VALLEY WITH ALL THE RESORTS AND
GOLF COURSES AND THE OTHER
GOLF COURSES AND THE OTHER
THINGS THAT MAKE OUR COMMUNITY
THINGS THAT MAKE OUR COMMUNITY
HERE UNIQUE.
HERE UNIQUE.
SO THERE'S A TRADE-OFF THERE.
SO THERE'S A TRADE-OFF THERE.
THERE'S ALSO A TRADE-OFF IN
THERE'S ALSO A TRADE-OFF IN
TERMS OF PLANTS THAT USE A LOT
TERMS OF PLANTS THAT USE A LOT
OF WATER ALSO REDUCE THE HEAT.
OF WATER ALSO REDUCE THE HEAT.
THE HEAT SINK EFFECT.
THE HEAT SINK EFFECT.
SO WE'LL HAVE TO HAVE ALL OF
SO WE'LL HAVE TO HAVE ALL OF
THOSE DEBATES AND WHAT I'M
THOSE DEBATES AND WHAT I'M
HOPING IS THAT WE WILL DO THAT
HOPING IS THAT WE WILL DO THAT
IN A WAY THAT DEVELOPS CONSENSUS
IN A WAY THAT DEVELOPS CONSENSUS
AND DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF
AND DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF
CONFLICT IN THE MEANTIME.
CONFLICT IN THE MEANTIME.
>> YOU MENTIONED ENVIRONMENT AND
>> YOU MENTIONED ENVIRONMENT AND
SOME PEOPLE MIGHT NOT SEE
SOME PEOPLE MIGHT NOT SEE
ENVIRONMENT I DON'T WANT TO SAY
ENVIRONMENT I DON'T WANT TO SAY
IN CONFLICT BUT THAT'S PROBABLY
IN CONFLICT BUT THAT'S PROBABLY
THE EASIEST WAY TO SAY IT, WITH
THE EASIEST WAY TO SAY IT, WITH
WATER, BUT THE NAVAJO GENERATING
WATER, BUT THE NAVAJO GENERATING
CENTER, WE HAVE AN ARGUMENT THAT
CENTER, WE HAVE AN ARGUMENT THAT
DOES BOIL DOWN TO --
DOES BOIL DOWN TO --
>> THEY ARE TWO ISSUES, AIR
>> THEY ARE TWO ISSUES, AIR
VERSUS WATER.
VERSUS WATER.
THE NAVAJO GENERATING STATION IS
THE NAVAJO GENERATING STATION IS
BEING ASKED BY THE EPA AND ASKED
BEING ASKED BY THE EPA AND ASKED
AS A EUPHEMISM, THEY ORDER YOU
AS A EUPHEMISM, THEY ORDER YOU
TO REDUCE YOUR POLLUTION AND IN
TO REDUCE YOUR POLLUTION AND IN
ORDER TO DO THAT, YOU HAVE TO
ORDER TO DO THAT, YOU HAVE TO
SPEND OVER $1 BILLION TO PUT NEW
SPEND OVER $1 BILLION TO PUT NEW
POLLUTION CONTROL EQUIPMENT ON A
POLLUTION CONTROL EQUIPMENT ON A
PLANT THAT, WELL, THE OWNERS
PLANT THAT, WELL, THE OWNERS
HAVE TO DECIDE HOW MUCH MORE
HAVE TO DECIDE HOW MUCH MORE
THEY'RE WILLING TO PUT INTO THE
THEY'RE WILLING TO PUT INTO THE
PLANT TO KEEP IT OPERATING IN
PLANT TO KEEP IT OPERATING IN
THE LONG TERM.
THE LONG TERM.
THE BUREAU OF RECLAMATION U.S.
THE BUREAU OF RECLAMATION U.S.
GOVERNMENT OWNS 30% OF THAT
GOVERNMENT OWNS 30% OF THAT
PLANT, AND THAT POWER IS WHAT'S
PLANT, AND THAT POWER IS WHAT'S
USED TO PUMP C.A.P. WATER OUT OF
USED TO PUMP C.A.P. WATER OUT OF
THE COLORADO RIVER ALL THE WAY
THE COLORADO RIVER ALL THE WAY
TO PHOENIX AND FURTHER UPHILL TO
TO PHOENIX AND FURTHER UPHILL TO
TUCSON.
TUCSON.
IT WOULD COST USERS AN ENORMOUS
IT WOULD COST USERS AN ENORMOUS
SUM OF MONEY IF WE DIDN'T HAVE
SUM OF MONEY IF WE DIDN'T HAVE
THE RELATIVELY CHEAP HYDROPOWER
THE RELATIVELY CHEAP HYDROPOWER
COMING OUT OF GLEN CANYON DAM TO
COMING OUT OF GLEN CANYON DAM TO
DO THAT.
DO THAT.
SO THERE'S A CASE WHERE
SO THERE'S A CASE WHERE
ALLEGEDLY PROTECTING THE AIR
ALLEGEDLY PROTECTING THE AIR
QUALITY AROUND PAGE, ARIZONA IS
QUALITY AROUND PAGE, ARIZONA IS
A REASON TO REQUIRE SACRIFICE OF
A REASON TO REQUIRE SACRIFICE OF
EVERYONE ELSE WITH RESPECT TO
EVERYONE ELSE WITH RESPECT TO
THE COST OF WATER.
THE COST OF WATER.
WITH REGARD TO WATER ITSELF, THE
WITH REGARD TO WATER ITSELF, THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS BEGINNING
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS BEGINNING
TO ASSERT WHAT IT CALLS RESERVED
TO ASSERT WHAT IT CALLS RESERVED
WATER RIGHT CLAIMS TO WATER IN
WATER RIGHT CLAIMS TO WATER IN
WATER COURSES, IN STREAMS, IN
WATER COURSES, IN STREAMS, IN
RIVERS, TO SUPPORT THE FLORA AND
RIVERS, TO SUPPORT THE FLORA AND
FAUNA AS PART OF THAT WATERSHED,
FAUNA AS PART OF THAT WATERSHED,
THE FISH, TURTLES, FROGS, REEDS
THE FISH, TURTLES, FROGS, REEDS
ALONG THE SIDE OF THE BANKS, THE
ALONG THE SIDE OF THE BANKS, THE
BIRDS THAT LIVE IN THERE AND THE
BIRDS THAT LIVE IN THERE AND THE
REST OF IT.
REST OF IT.
IF YOU CREATE A WILDERNESS AREA,
IF YOU CREATE A WILDERNESS AREA,
THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT YOU'RE
THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT YOU'RE
GOING TO SAVE ENOUGH WATER TO
GOING TO SAVE ENOUGH WATER TO
KEEP THAT WILDERNESS AREA GOING.
KEEP THAT WILDERNESS AREA GOING.
WELL, THAT MEANS THE WATER HAS
WELL, THAT MEANS THE WATER HAS
TO FLOW DOWN THE RIVER.
TO FLOW DOWN THE RIVER.
YOU, LET'S SAY A FARMER, CAN'T
YOU, LET'S SAY A FARMER, CAN'T
TAKE WATER OUT UPSTREAM, DIVERT
TAKE WATER OUT UPSTREAM, DIVERT
IT FOR IRRIGATING YOUR FARM,
IT FOR IRRIGATING YOUR FARM,
BECAUSE THAT WATER HAS TO STAY
BECAUSE THAT WATER HAS TO STAY
IN THE RIVER ALL THE WAY DOWN TO
IN THE RIVER ALL THE WAY DOWN TO
WHEREVER IT EVENTUALLY FLOWS.
WHEREVER IT EVENTUALLY FLOWS.
THOSE ARE ISSUES THAT HAVE TO BE
THOSE ARE ISSUES THAT HAVE TO BE
RESOLVED.
RESOLVED.
THEY ARE LEGAL ISSUES, THEY ARE
THEY ARE LEGAL ISSUES, THEY ARE
POLITICAL ISSUES, AND IT'S GOING
POLITICAL ISSUES, AND IT'S GOING
TO TAKE A LOT OF WORK.
TO TAKE A LOT OF WORK.
THOSE ARE SOME OF THE SHORT AND
THOSE ARE SOME OF THE SHORT AND
INTERMEDIATE TERM ISSUES THAT I
INTERMEDIATE TERM ISSUES THAT I
SPOKE OF THAT HAVE TO BE
SPOKE OF THAT HAVE TO BE
RESOLVED SO THAT WE WILL IN
RESOLVED SO THAT WE WILL IN
EFFECT KNOW HOW MUCH WE WILL
EFFECT KNOW HOW MUCH WE WILL
NEED TO AUGMENT OUR SUPPLY ON
NEED TO AUGMENT OUR SUPPLY ON
DOWN THE ROAD.
DOWN THE ROAD.
>> IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE ANY OF
>> IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE ANY OF
THE SHORT INTERMEDIATE OR LONG
THE SHORT INTERMEDIATE OR LONG
TERM ISSUES ARE WHAT IS KNOWN AS
TERM ISSUES ARE WHAT IS KNOWN AS
LOW-HANGING FRUIT.
LOW-HANGING FRUIT.
ALL THAT SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN
ALL THAT SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN
PICKED.
PICKED.
>> YES.
>> YES.
AS WE DISCUSSED TODAY, THE
AS WE DISCUSSED TODAY, THE
DECISIONS THAT HAVE TO BE MADE
DECISIONS THAT HAVE TO BE MADE
IN THE FUTURE ARE GOING TO BE
IN THE FUTURE ARE GOING TO BE
TOUGH DECISIONS.
TOUGH DECISIONS.
THERE MAY HAVE TO BE TRADE-OFFS
THERE MAY HAVE TO BE TRADE-OFFS
AMONG WATER USERS, AMONG AREAS
AMONG WATER USERS, AMONG AREAS
OF THE STATE.
OF THE STATE.
THERE MAY BE SOME PRETTY BIG
THERE MAY BE SOME PRETTY BIG
COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS.
COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS.
BUT HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS.
BUT HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS.
ARIZONA HAS ALWAYS MANAGED TO BE
ARIZONA HAS ALWAYS MANAGED TO BE
AHEAD OF EVERYONE ELSE IN TERMS
AHEAD OF EVERYONE ELSE IN TERMS
OF ITS WATER AVAILABILITY
OF ITS WATER AVAILABILITY
BECAUSE WE HAVE LEADERS WITH
BECAUSE WE HAVE LEADERS WITH
FORESIGHT TO LOBBY FOR THE
FORESIGHT TO LOBBY FOR THE
RECLAMATION ACTS CREATION AND
RECLAMATION ACTS CREATION AND
THE CREATION OF THE SALT RIVER
THE CREATION OF THE SALT RIVER
PROJECT, TO LOBBY FOR THE
PROJECT, TO LOBBY FOR THE
CENTRAL ARIZONA PROJECT AND THE
CENTRAL ARIZONA PROJECT AND THE
FUNDING THAT CAN BEGIN TO
FUNDING THAT CAN BEGIN TO
DELIVER OUR SHARE OF COLORADO
DELIVER OUR SHARE OF COLORADO
RIVER WATER TO ARIZONA, THE
RIVER WATER TO ARIZONA, THE
FORESIGHT TO DEVELOP THE GROUND
FORESIGHT TO DEVELOP THE GROUND
WATER MANAGEMENT ACT TO BEGIN
WATER MANAGEMENT ACT TO BEGIN
CONSERVING OUR GROUND WATER AND
CONSERVING OUR GROUND WATER AND
USING IT SENSIBLY AND SO ON.
USING IT SENSIBLY AND SO ON.
THIS ISN'T A SITUATION WHERE
THIS ISN'T A SITUATION WHERE
ARIZONA FACES A CRISIS.
ARIZONA FACES A CRISIS.
WE'RE IN BETTER SHAPE THAN MOST
WE'RE IN BETTER SHAPE THAN MOST
PLACES.
PLACES.
WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS FOLLOW THE
WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS FOLLOW THE
SAME HISTORIC MODEL THAT
SAME HISTORIC MODEL THAT
ARIZONANS DID IN THE PAST,
ARIZONANS DID IN THE PAST,
ANTICIPATE WAY OUT INTO THE
ANTICIPATE WAY OUT INTO THE
FUTURE A PROBLEM, GET TOGETHER
FUTURE A PROBLEM, GET TOGETHER
AND SOLVE THE PROBLEM SO THAT
AND SOLVE THE PROBLEM SO THAT
IT'S NEVER A CRISIS.
IT'S NEVER A CRISIS.
AND BY WORKING AT IT EARLY ON
AND BY WORKING AT IT EARLY ON
HERE, I THINK WE CAN AVOID THAT
HERE, I THINK WE CAN AVOID THAT
AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO SAY TO
AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO SAY TO
THE REST OF THE COUNTRY, HEY,
THE REST OF THE COUNTRY, HEY,
COME OUT TO ARIZONA, WE'RE GOING
COME OUT TO ARIZONA, WE'RE GOING
TO HAVE A WONDERFUL ENVIRONMENT
TO HAVE A WONDERFUL ENVIRONMENT
FOR YOU, PLENTY OF WATER TO
FOR YOU, PLENTY OF WATER TO
BOOT.
BOOT.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
YOU BET.
YOU BET.
>> FOR ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW ON
>> FOR ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW ON
THE STATE'S WATER PICTURE,
THE STATE'S WATER PICTURE,
CHRISTOPHER CONOVER SPOKE WITH
CHRISTOPHER CONOVER SPOKE WITH
UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA LAW
UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA LAW
PROFESSOR AND WATER LAW EXPERT,
PROFESSOR AND WATER LAW EXPERT,
ROBERT GLENNON.
ROBERT GLENNON.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SITTING
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SITTING
DOWN WITH US.
DOWN WITH US.
WE HEARD FROM SENATOR KYL ABOUT
WE HEARD FROM SENATOR KYL ABOUT
SOME OF THE WATER ISSUES IN THE
SOME OF THE WATER ISSUES IN THE
STATE, AND THE BIG TAKE-AWAY IT
STATE, AND THE BIG TAKE-AWAY IT
SEEMS FOR EVERYBODY THAT WE'VE
SEEMS FOR EVERYBODY THAT WE'VE
TALKED TO ABOUT WATER IS NOBODY
TALKED TO ABOUT WATER IS NOBODY
DISAGREES WE'RE GOING TO RUN OUT
DISAGREES WE'RE GOING TO RUN OUT
OF WATER IF NOTHING CHANGES.
OF WATER IF NOTHING CHANGES.
BUT CONSERVATION ISN'T GOING TO
BUT CONSERVATION ISN'T GOING TO
GET US OUT OF THIS.
GET US OUT OF THIS.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK TO
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK TO
SCIENCE OR SOME OTHER METHOD TO
SCIENCE OR SOME OTHER METHOD TO
SAVE US.
SAVE US.
NOT SURE YOU SEE IT QUITE THE
NOT SURE YOU SEE IT QUITE THE
SAME WAY.
SAME WAY.
>> I THINK IT MAY DEPEND ON WHAT
>> I THINK IT MAY DEPEND ON WHAT
WE MEAN BY CONSERVATION, BECAUSE
WE MEAN BY CONSERVATION, BECAUSE
THE BUREAU OF RECLAMATION ISSUED
THE BUREAU OF RECLAMATION ISSUED
A STUDY LAST YEAR THAT SAID THAT
A STUDY LAST YEAR THAT SAID THAT
CONSERVATION IS, IN FACT, ONE OF
CONSERVATION IS, IN FACT, ONE OF
THE BEST WAYS GOING FORWARD.
THE BEST WAYS GOING FORWARD.
WHAT WON'T WORK IS THE OLD WAY
WHAT WON'T WORK IS THE OLD WAY
OF DOING THINGS, MASSIVE
OF DOING THINGS, MASSIVE
PIPELINES, BIZARRE IDEAS TO TOW
PIPELINES, BIZARRE IDEAS TO TOW
ICEBERGS FROM THE ARCTIC, TAP
ICEBERGS FROM THE ARCTIC, TAP
INTO THE MISSOURI RIVER.
INTO THE MISSOURI RIVER.
THOSE THINGS ARE NOT FEASIBLE,
THOSE THINGS ARE NOT FEASIBLE,
SAID THE BUREAU, BUT WHAT IS
SAID THE BUREAU, BUT WHAT IS
FEASIBLE IS CONSERVATION, REUSE,
FEASIBLE IS CONSERVATION, REUSE,
MAYBE SOME DESAL OF BRACKISH
MAYBE SOME DESAL OF BRACKISH
WATER.
WATER.
CONSERVATION'S A BIG PART.
CONSERVATION'S A BIG PART.
IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK SIMPLY IF
IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK SIMPLY IF
YOU AND I OR A FEW NEW PEOPLE
YOU AND I OR A FEW NEW PEOPLE
JOIN US IN NOT LEAVING THE WATER
JOIN US IN NOT LEAVING THE WATER
RUNNING WHILE THEY BRUSH THEIR
RUNNING WHILE THEY BRUSH THEIR
TEETH.
TEETH.
THAT'S A TRIVIAL AMOUNT.
THAT'S A TRIVIAL AMOUNT.
IT'S A SYMBOLIC AMOUNT BUT
IT'S A SYMBOLIC AMOUNT BUT
TRIVIAL.
TRIVIAL.
BUT A LOT OF FARMING STILL IS
BUT A LOT OF FARMING STILL IS
PRETTY INEFFICIENT AND IF
PRETTY INEFFICIENT AND IF
FARMERS WERE TO BECOME MORE
FARMERS WERE TO BECOME MORE
EFFICIENT, THAT WOULD FREE UP A
EFFICIENT, THAT WOULD FREE UP A
LOT OF NEW WATER.
LOT OF NEW WATER.
NOW, THE PEOPLE WHO WANT THAT
NOW, THE PEOPLE WHO WANT THAT
WATER OF COURSE ARE THE CITIES.
WATER OF COURSE ARE THE CITIES.
THAT'S THE GROWTH.
THAT'S THE GROWTH.
AND SO IT SEEMS SIMPLE ENOUGH TO
AND SO IT SEEMS SIMPLE ENOUGH TO
SAY TO THE CITIES PUT SOME MONEY
SAY TO THE CITIES PUT SOME MONEY
ON THE TABLE, PAY FARMERS TO
ON THE TABLE, PAY FARMERS TO
MOVE FROM FLOOD IRRIGATION TO A
MOVE FROM FLOOD IRRIGATION TO A
CENTER PIVOT OR FROM A CENTER
CENTER PIVOT OR FROM A CENTER
PIVOT TO DRIP OR MICRO, REALLY
PIVOT TO DRIP OR MICRO, REALLY
EFFICIENT SYSTEMS.
EFFICIENT SYSTEMS.
THEY WILL USE LESS WATER, GROW
THEY WILL USE LESS WATER, GROW
THE SAME PRODUCT, BUT THE CITIES
THE SAME PRODUCT, BUT THE CITIES
AND INDUSTRY WILL GET THE EXTRA
AND INDUSTRY WILL GET THE EXTRA
WORK THAT'S SAVED.
WORK THAT'S SAVED.
THAT'S CONSERVATION OF THE BEST
THAT'S CONSERVATION OF THE BEST
SORT.
SORT.
>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE VAST
>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE VAST
MAJORITY OF OUR WATER, OUR
MAJORITY OF OUR WATER, OUR
C.A.P. WATER, ACTUALLY GOES TO
C.A.P. WATER, ACTUALLY GOES TO
AGRICULTURE.
AGRICULTURE.
VERY LITTLE OF IT COMES TO YOUR
VERY LITTLE OF IT COMES TO YOUR
HOUSE, MY HOUSE, OUR VIEWERS'
HOUSE, MY HOUSE, OUR VIEWERS'
HOUSE.
HOUSE.
SO LITTLE CHANGE IN AGRICULTURE
SO LITTLE CHANGE IN AGRICULTURE
WOULD HAVE A BIG DIFFERENCE FOR
WOULD HAVE A BIG DIFFERENCE FOR
US.
US.
>> WELL, STATE-WIDE, IF YOU
>> WELL, STATE-WIDE, IF YOU
THINK ABOUT GROUND WATER AND
THINK ABOUT GROUND WATER AND
SALT RIVER AS A SYSTEM, FARMERS
SALT RIVER AS A SYSTEM, FARMERS
USE ABOUT 70% OF THE WATER.
USE ABOUT 70% OF THE WATER.
SO IF WE COULD GET FARMERS FROM
SO IF WE COULD GET FARMERS FROM
70% TO 60%, THAT WOULD ALMOST
70% TO 60%, THAT WOULD ALMOST
DOUBLE THE SUPPLY FOR CITIES.
DOUBLE THE SUPPLY FOR CITIES.
SO IT'S A TREMENDOUS
SO IT'S A TREMENDOUS
OPPORTUNITY.
OPPORTUNITY.
BUT THE PROBLEM IS, FARMERS
BUT THE PROBLEM IS, FARMERS
REALLY, MOST OF THEM, AREN'T IN
REALLY, MOST OF THEM, AREN'T IN
A POSITION FINANCIALLY TO BEAR
A POSITION FINANCIALLY TO BEAR
THE COSTS OF THIS INFRASTRUCTURE
THE COSTS OF THIS INFRASTRUCTURE
OVERHAUL.
OVERHAUL.
FOR THE CITIES, IT'S A ROUNDING
FOR THE CITIES, IT'S A ROUNDING
ERROR.
ERROR.
SO LET'S GET THE CITIES ON BOARD
SO LET'S GET THE CITIES ON BOARD
OF HELPING THE FARMERS MODERNIZE
OF HELPING THE FARMERS MODERNIZE
THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE, AND THEY
THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE, AND THEY
WILL GET THE WATER THAT'S SAVED
WILL GET THE WATER THAT'S SAVED
AND THE FARMERS STAY IN
AND THE FARMERS STAY IN
BUSINESS.
BUSINESS.
>> AGRICULTURE IS HUGE BUSINESS
>> AGRICULTURE IS HUGE BUSINESS
IN ARIZONA, ONE OF THE THINGS
IN ARIZONA, ONE OF THE THINGS
OUR ECONOMY RESTS ON, SO ANY
OUR ECONOMY RESTS ON, SO ANY
CHANGE COULD HAVE BIG
CHANGE COULD HAVE BIG
TRICKLE-DOWN EFFECTS BUT IT
TRICKLE-DOWN EFFECTS BUT IT
DOESN'T SOUND LIKE YOU ARE
DOESN'T SOUND LIKE YOU ARE
SAYING THAT'S IT, YOU KNOW, PUT
SAYING THAT'S IT, YOU KNOW, PUT
HOUSES OR SHOPPING MALLS IN ALL
HOUSES OR SHOPPING MALLS IN ALL
THE FIELDS, WE'RE OUT OF
THE FIELDS, WE'RE OUT OF
AGRICULTURE, JUST NEED TO DO
AGRICULTURE, JUST NEED TO DO
SOME MODIFICATION.
SOME MODIFICATION.
>> ACTUALLY, THE ROLE OF
>> ACTUALLY, THE ROLE OF
AGRICULTURE IS MUCH REDUCED FROM
AGRICULTURE IS MUCH REDUCED FROM
WHERE IT WAS WHEN WE HAD THE
WHERE IT WAS WHEN WE HAD THE
FOUR OR FIVE Cs THAT INCLUDED
FOUR OR FIVE Cs THAT INCLUDED
COTTON AND CITRUS.
COTTON AND CITRUS.
AGRICULTURE'S PROBABLY LESS THAN
AGRICULTURE'S PROBABLY LESS THAN
1% OF GROSS STATE PRODUCT BUT
1% OF GROSS STATE PRODUCT BUT
STILL, IT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF
STILL, IT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF
WHO WE ARE AS A PEOPLE, AS A
WHO WE ARE AS A PEOPLE, AS A
CULTURE.
CULTURE.
MOREOVER, THE FARMERS HAVE
MOREOVER, THE FARMERS HAVE
RIGHTS TO THE WATER.
RIGHTS TO THE WATER.
IT'S THEIR WATER RIGHTS THAT
IT'S THEIR WATER RIGHTS THAT
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
SO YOU NEED TO GIVE FARMERS AN
SO YOU NEED TO GIVE FARMERS AN
INCENTIVE IF YOU EXPECT THEM TO
INCENTIVE IF YOU EXPECT THEM TO
DO SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY.
DO SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY.
OTHERWISE, THEY WILL CONTINUE
OTHERWISE, THEY WILL CONTINUE
DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING, WHICH
DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING, WHICH
IS SOMETIMES NOT VERY EFFICIENT.
IS SOMETIMES NOT VERY EFFICIENT.
>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WATER
>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WATER
RIGHTS, ARIZONA'S A JUNIOR
RIGHTS, ARIZONA'S A JUNIOR
PARTNER ON THE COLORADO RIVER.
PARTNER ON THE COLORADO RIVER.
SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID IT'S TIME
SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID IT'S TIME
TO RELOOK AT THAT LEGISLATION,
TO RELOOK AT THAT LEGISLATION,
THAT BODY OF LAW REALISTICALLY.
THAT BODY OF LAW REALISTICALLY.
YOU ARE ALSO A LAW PROFESSOR.
YOU ARE ALSO A LAW PROFESSOR.
WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF THAT
WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF THAT
WATER LAW MASSIVELY EVER
WATER LAW MASSIVELY EVER
CHANGING ON RIGHTS OF THE
CHANGING ON RIGHTS OF THE
COLORADO?
COLORADO?
>> I'M PRETTY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT
>> I'M PRETTY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT
THAT, CHRISTOPHER.
THAT, CHRISTOPHER.
OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS, YOU'VE
OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS, YOU'VE
SEEN AN UNPRECEDENTED AMOUNT OF
SEEN AN UNPRECEDENTED AMOUNT OF
COOPERATION AND CONCILIATION
COOPERATION AND CONCILIATION
AMONG SEVEN BASIN STATES.
AMONG SEVEN BASIN STATES.
THEY DID SO IN AN IMPORTANT
THEY DID SO IN AN IMPORTANT
AGREEMENT IN 2007.
AGREEMENT IN 2007.
THEY DID SO JUST LAST YEAR IN
THEY DID SO JUST LAST YEAR IN
WHAT IS CALLED MINUTE 319, WHERE
WHAT IS CALLED MINUTE 319, WHERE
STATES ARE PUTTING FORWARD MONEY
STATES ARE PUTTING FORWARD MONEY
TO MODERNIZE INFRASTRUCTURE, TO
TO MODERNIZE INFRASTRUCTURE, TO
HELP WITH EFFICIENCY
HELP WITH EFFICIENCY
IMPROVEMENTS, AND THEN GETTING
IMPROVEMENTS, AND THEN GETTING
SOME RIGHTS AS A RESULT OF THAT.
SOME RIGHTS AS A RESULT OF THAT.
THE BIG WILD CARD IN ALL OF THIS
THE BIG WILD CARD IN ALL OF THIS
IS CLIMATE CHANGE, AND OUR
IS CLIMATE CHANGE, AND OUR
RIGHTS TRADITIONALLY WERE SET UP
RIGHTS TRADITIONALLY WERE SET UP
ON A ZERO SUM GAME.
ON A ZERO SUM GAME.
IT'S MY RIGHT OR YOUR RIGHT.
IT'S MY RIGHT OR YOUR RIGHT.
IT'S NOT A SHARED RIGHT.
IT'S NOT A SHARED RIGHT.
BUT WHAT WE NEED TO BE BUILDING
BUT WHAT WE NEED TO BE BUILDING
IN IS RESILIENCY IN THE FORM OF
IN IS RESILIENCY IN THE FORM OF
RISK STRATEGIES THAT HELP US
RISK STRATEGIES THAT HELP US
WHEN THE DROUGHT PERSISTS.
WHEN THE DROUGHT PERSISTS.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, SOMETHING AS
SO FOR EXAMPLE, SOMETHING AS
SIMPLE AS A DRY YEAR OPTION,
SIMPLE AS A DRY YEAR OPTION,
WHERE THE CITY SAYS TO AN
WHERE THE CITY SAYS TO AN
ALFALFA FARMER, WE ARE IN TOUGH
ALFALFA FARMER, WE ARE IN TOUGH
SHAPE THIS YEAR, HOW ABOUT YOU
SHAPE THIS YEAR, HOW ABOUT YOU
FALLOW YOUR LAND, WE WILL PAY
FALLOW YOUR LAND, WE WILL PAY
YOU FOR WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE
YOU FOR WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE
GROWN BUT WE'LL TAKE THE WATER
GROWN BUT WE'LL TAKE THE WATER
THIS YEAR.
THIS YEAR.
THAT'S THE KIND OF STUFF, THE
THAT'S THE KIND OF STUFF, THE
OUT OF THE BOX THINKING THAT WE
OUT OF THE BOX THINKING THAT WE
NEED GOING FORWARD.
NEED GOING FORWARD.
>> HOW DO WE CHANGE OVERALL
>> HOW DO WE CHANGE OVERALL
THINKING, I GUESS EVERYBODY'S
THINKING, I GUESS EVERYBODY'S
THINKING, TUCSON A NUMBER OF
THINKING, TUCSON A NUMBER OF
YEARS AGO EMBARKED ON A PROGRAM
YEARS AGO EMBARKED ON A PROGRAM
TO GET PEOPLE TO PULL OUT THEIR
TO GET PEOPLE TO PULL OUT THEIR
LAWNS AND REALLY DO A LOT OF
LAWNS AND REALLY DO A LOT OF
CONSERVATION AROUND THE HOME
CONSERVATION AROUND THE HOME
WITH ZERO SCAPING.
WITH ZERO SCAPING.
WE LOOK UP AT PHOENIX AND THERE
WE LOOK UP AT PHOENIX AND THERE
ARE STILL PLENTY OF LAWNS, IT
ARE STILL PLENTY OF LAWNS, IT
HAS BEEN SAID WELL, PHOENIX
HAS BEEN SAID WELL, PHOENIX
NEEDS THAT, MORE TOURISTS GO
NEEDS THAT, MORE TOURISTS GO
THERE, THEY NEED THE WATER FOR
THERE, THEY NEED THE WATER FOR
THE GOLF COURSES AND THINGS LIKE
THE GOLF COURSES AND THINGS LIKE
THAT TO BRING PEOPLE IN.
THAT TO BRING PEOPLE IN.
HOW DO WE CHANGE THIS THINKING?
HOW DO WE CHANGE THIS THINKING?
>> SECESSION?
>> SECESSION?
THAT'S RIDICULOUS THAT THEY NEED
THAT'S RIDICULOUS THAT THEY NEED
IT FOR TOURISM.
IT FOR TOURISM.
GOLF COURSES HELP TOURISM, BUT
GOLF COURSES HELP TOURISM, BUT
LAS VEGAS HAS SPENT $200 MILLION
LAS VEGAS HAS SPENT $200 MILLION
RIPPING OUT LAWNS AND 40 MILLION
RIPPING OUT LAWNS AND 40 MILLION
PEOPLE A YEAR GO TO LAS VEGAS.
PEOPLE A YEAR GO TO LAS VEGAS.
SO YOU CAN HAVE A TOURIST MAGNET
SO YOU CAN HAVE A TOURIST MAGNET
WITHOUT WATER RUNNING DOWN THE
WITHOUT WATER RUNNING DOWN THE
STREET.
STREET.
YOU KNOW AS WELL AS I,
YOU KNOW AS WELL AS I,
CHRISTOPHER, WHENEVER YOU GO TO
CHRISTOPHER, WHENEVER YOU GO TO
PHOENIX, YOU SEE WATER RUNNING
PHOENIX, YOU SEE WATER RUNNING
DOWN THE STREET.
DOWN THE STREET.
YOU SEE LAWNS NOT WHERE KIDS ARE
YOU SEE LAWNS NOT WHERE KIDS ARE
PLAYING ON THE LAWNS, BUT LOS
PLAYING ON THE LAWNS, BUT LOS
ANGELES AS -- LAWNS AS A BUFFER
ANGELES AS -- LAWNS AS A BUFFER
A SIDEWALK OR A FENCE TO ANOTHER
A SIDEWALK OR A FENCE TO ANOTHER
FENCE, WHERE NO ONE CAN EVEN SEE
FENCE, WHERE NO ONE CAN EVEN SEE
THE LAWN.
THE LAWN.
WE CAN DO BETTER.
WE CAN DO BETTER.
>> LONG TERM, OBVIOUSLY THESE
>> LONG TERM, OBVIOUSLY THESE
ARE DIFFICULT DECISIONS TO MAKE.
ARE DIFFICULT DECISIONS TO MAKE.
IT'S EASY FOR US TO SIT HERE AND
IT'S EASY FOR US TO SIT HERE AND
SAY THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE
SAY THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE
DONE BUT GETTING PEOPLE TO DO
DONE BUT GETTING PEOPLE TO DO
IT, THERE ARE A LITTLE MORE
IT, THERE ARE A LITTLE MORE
DIFFICULT.
DIFFICULT.
LONG TERM, ARE YOU HOPEFUL THESE
LONG TERM, ARE YOU HOPEFUL THESE
DECISIONS CAN BE MADE BEFORE WE
DECISIONS CAN BE MADE BEFORE WE
REACH A CRISIS LEVEL OR IS IT
REACH A CRISIS LEVEL OR IS IT
GOING TO TAKE A REAL CRISIS
GOING TO TAKE A REAL CRISIS
LEVEL WHERE PEOPLE TURN ON THEIR
LEVEL WHERE PEOPLE TURN ON THEIR
TAP AND NOTHING COMES OUT BEFORE
TAP AND NOTHING COMES OUT BEFORE
BIG CHANGES COME?
BIG CHANGES COME?
>> WELL, WE'RE IN A CRISIS RIGHT
>> WELL, WE'RE IN A CRISIS RIGHT
NOW.
NOW.
WATER STILL COMES OUT OF THE
WATER STILL COMES OUT OF THE
TAP, BUT POWER PLANTS ARE NOT
TAP, BUT POWER PLANTS ARE NOT
BEING BUILT.
BEING BUILT.
RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL
RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL
DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS CANCELED.
DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS CANCELED.
FACTORIES CLOSING.
FACTORIES CLOSING.
SOME PLACES AROUND THE COUNTRY
SOME PLACES AROUND THE COUNTRY
HAVE RUN OUT OF WATER.
HAVE RUN OUT OF WATER.
SO THE CRISIS IS HERE.
SO THE CRISIS IS HERE.
BUT THERE ARE STILL CHOICES AND
BUT THERE ARE STILL CHOICES AND
PATHS TO SELECT BETWEEN AND
PATHS TO SELECT BETWEEN AND
AMONG TO KEEP THE CRISIS FROM
AMONG TO KEEP THE CRISIS FROM
BECOMING A CATASTROPHE.
BECOMING A CATASTROPHE.
THAT'S WHAT WE NEED.
THAT'S WHAT WE NEED.
AND THAT'S GOING TO REQUIRE
AND THAT'S GOING TO REQUIRE
POLITICAL WILL AND MORAL
POLITICAL WILL AND MORAL
COURAGE.
COURAGE.
>> THANKS FOR SITTING DOWN WITH
>> THANKS FOR SITTING DOWN WITH
US.
US.
>> GOOD TO SEE YOU, CHRISTOPHER.
>> GOOD TO SEE YOU, CHRISTOPHER.
>> MANY AMERICANS OF A CERTAIN
>> MANY AMERICANS OF A CERTAIN
AGE REMEMBER WHERE WE WERE 50
AGE REMEMBER WHERE WE WERE 50
YEARS AGO WHEN WE HEARD THE NEWS
YEARS AGO WHEN WE HEARD THE NEWS
OF JOHN F. KENNEDY'S
OF JOHN F. KENNEDY'S
ASSASSINATION.
ASSASSINATION.
TO MARK THE ANNIVERSARY, WE'LL
TO MARK THE ANNIVERSARY, WE'LL
LOOK AT KENNEDY'S TIME AND
LOOK AT KENNEDY'S TIME AND
CONNECTIONS TO ARIZONA.
CONNECTIONS TO ARIZONA.
JOINING ME IS TUCSON HISTORIAN
JOINING ME IS TUCSON HISTORIAN
JIM TURNER, WHO HAS RESEARCHED
JIM TURNER, WHO HAS RESEARCHED
AND WRITTEN ABOUT JFK IN OUR
AND WRITTEN ABOUT JFK IN OUR
STATE.
STATE.
WELCOME, MR. TURNER.
WELCOME, MR. TURNER.
>> THANK YOU, MICHAEL.
>> THANK YOU, MICHAEL.
>> TELL US ABOUT THE FIRST TIME
>> TELL US ABOUT THE FIRST TIME
THAT YOU KNOW OF THROUGH YOUR
THAT YOU KNOW OF THROUGH YOUR
RESEARCH THAT JFK CAME TO
RESEARCH THAT JFK CAME TO
ARIZONA.
ARIZONA.
>> WELL, IT WAS 1936, IN THE
>> WELL, IT WAS 1936, IN THE
SPRING AND SUMMER OF 1936.
SPRING AND SUMMER OF 1936.
>> AND WHAT WAS HE DOING HERE?
>> AND WHAT WAS HE DOING HERE?
>> WELL, SURPRISINGLY ENOUGH, HE
>> WELL, SURPRISINGLY ENOUGH, HE
WAS WORKING ON A RANCH JUST
WAS WORKING ON A RANCH JUST
SOUTH OF -- WELL, IT WAS OUTSIDE
SOUTH OF -- WELL, IT WAS OUTSIDE
OF BENSON.
OF BENSON.
THE MAN WHO OWNED THE RANCH,
THE MAN WHO OWNED THE RANCH,
JOHN G.F.SPIDEN, HAD THIS RANCH.
JOHN G.F.SPIDEN, HAD THIS RANCH.
HE CAME TO ARIZONA IN 1932.
HE CAME TO ARIZONA IN 1932.
HE WAS A WALL STREET BANKER, BUT
HE WAS A WALL STREET BANKER, BUT
HE HAD HEALTH PROBLEMS, SO LIKE
HE HAD HEALTH PROBLEMS, SO LIKE
MANY OTHERS, HE CAME TO ARIZONA.
MANY OTHERS, HE CAME TO ARIZONA.
>> AND KENNEDY CAME TO HIS RANCH
>> AND KENNEDY CAME TO HIS RANCH
AS A TEENAGER 17, 18 YEARS OLD,
AS A TEENAGER 17, 18 YEARS OLD,
AROUND THERE, WITH HIS OLDER
AROUND THERE, WITH HIS OLDER
BROTHER, JOE, AND THEY SPENT HOW
BROTHER, JOE, AND THEY SPENT HOW
MUCH TIME ON THAT RANCH?
MUCH TIME ON THAT RANCH?
>> ABOUT SIX MONTHS.
>> ABOUT SIX MONTHS.
SPRING AND SUMMER, AND JFK HAD
SPRING AND SUMMER, AND JFK HAD
BEEN IN LONDON ATTENDING THE
BEEN IN LONDON ATTENDING THE
LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS, AND
LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS, AND
GOT VERY SICK.
GOT VERY SICK.
I'M NOT QUITE SURE IF IT WAS
I'M NOT QUITE SURE IF IT WAS
PNEUMONIA BUT IT WAS SOMETHING
PNEUMONIA BUT IT WAS SOMETHING
PRETTY BAD, SO HE HAD TO COME
PRETTY BAD, SO HE HAD TO COME
HOME AND HIS FATHER JOSEPH HAD A
HOME AND HIS FATHER JOSEPH HAD A
FRIEND WHO WAS A JOURNALIST WHO
FRIEND WHO WAS A JOURNALIST WHO
KNEW MR. SPIDEN AND SAID WHY
KNEW MR. SPIDEN AND SAID WHY
DON'T YOU SEND JACK OUT TO THE
DON'T YOU SEND JACK OUT TO THE
RANCH TO RECUPERATE.
RANCH TO RECUPERATE.
AND EVIDENTLY, THEY JUST SENT
AND EVIDENTLY, THEY JUST SENT
JOE ALONG TO BE HIS COMPANION.
JOE ALONG TO BE HIS COMPANION.
>> WHAT DID THEY DO ON THE
>> WHAT DID THEY DO ON THE
RANCH?
RANCH?
DID THEY JUST HANG OUT OR --
DID THEY JUST HANG OUT OR --
>> NO, THEY DID REAL COWBOY
>> NO, THEY DID REAL COWBOY
STUFF AND IT WAS A PAID JOB.
STUFF AND IT WAS A PAID JOB.
THEIR FATHER FELT THAT THEY
THEIR FATHER FELT THAT THEY
SHOULD LEARN, ACTUALLY DO
SHOULD LEARN, ACTUALLY DO
SOMETHING WITH THEIR HANDS, SO
SOMETHING WITH THEIR HANDS, SO
THEY RODE FENCE, THEY FIXED,
THEY RODE FENCE, THEY FIXED,
MENDED FENCES, HERDED CATTLE,
MENDED FENCES, HERDED CATTLE,
BUT ALSO BUILT AN ADOBE OFFICE
BUT ALSO BUILT AN ADOBE OFFICE
FOR THE RANCH OWNER AND LATER
FOR THE RANCH OWNER AND LATER
ON, MR. SPIDEN SAID HE WOULD
ON, MR. SPIDEN SAID HE WOULD
LIKE TO CALL IT THE HOUSE THAT
LIKE TO CALL IT THE HOUSE THAT
JACK BUILT BECAUSE HE HAD
JACK BUILT BECAUSE HE HAD
ACTUALLY BUILT IT OUT OF ADOBE
ACTUALLY BUILT IT OUT OF ADOBE
BRICKS.
BRICKS.
>> AFTER THAT, THE KENNEDY
>> AFTER THAT, THE KENNEDY
BROTHERS WENT BACK HOME AND THEY
BROTHERS WENT BACK HOME AND THEY
BOTH WENT -- ENROLLED IN
BOTH WENT -- ENROLLED IN
HARVARD.
HARVARD.
BUT KENNEDY, JOHN KENNEDY, CAME
BUT KENNEDY, JOHN KENNEDY, CAME
BACK TO ARIZONA AGAIN FOR HEALTH
BACK TO ARIZONA AGAIN FOR HEALTH
REASONS A FEW YEARS LATER.
REASONS A FEW YEARS LATER.
THIS WAS AFTER HIS WORLD WAR II
THIS WAS AFTER HIS WORLD WAR II
INJURIES, RIGHT?
INJURIES, RIGHT?
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT.
AFTER P.T. 109 WAS RAMMED IN
AFTER P.T. 109 WAS RAMMED IN
AUGUST OF 1942, HE OF COURSE
AUGUST OF 1942, HE OF COURSE
REINJURED HIS BACK.
REINJURED HIS BACK.
HE AND BROTHER JOE JOINED THE
HE AND BROTHER JOE JOINED THE
HARVARD FOOTBALL TEAM IN THE
HARVARD FOOTBALL TEAM IN THE
FALL OF '36 AND HE INJURED IT
FALL OF '36 AND HE INJURED IT
THERE, BUT -- SO AFTER THE P.T.
THERE, BUT -- SO AFTER THE P.T.
109 CRASH, HE WENT TO THE CASTLE
109 CRASH, HE WENT TO THE CASTLE
HOT SPRINGS RESORT OUTSIDE OF
HOT SPRINGS RESORT OUTSIDE OF
PHOENIX AND RECUPERATED FOR
PHOENIX AND RECUPERATED FOR
THREE MONTHS THERE.
THREE MONTHS THERE.
>> FOR THREE MONTHS.
>> FOR THREE MONTHS.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH.
>> BUT HE ALSO, AS YOUR STORY
>> BUT HE ALSO, AS YOUR STORY
TELLS IT, GOT A LITTLE BIT BORED
TELLS IT, GOT A LITTLE BIT BORED
WITH -- THERE WASN'T MUCH ACTION
WITH -- THERE WASN'T MUCH ACTION
THERE.
THERE.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT.
IT'S 55 MILES OUTSIDE OF
IT'S 55 MILES OUTSIDE OF
PHOENIX, NORTHWEST OF PHOENIX,
PHOENIX, NORTHWEST OF PHOENIX,
AND IT WAS BUILT IN 1896, SO IT
AND IT WAS BUILT IN 1896, SO IT
WAS A RESORT FOR THE
WAS A RESORT FOR THE
VANDERBILTS, ASTORS, BUT HE'S 23
VANDERBILTS, ASTORS, BUT HE'S 23
YEARS OLD AND IT WAS PRETTY
YEARS OLD AND IT WAS PRETTY
BORING, SO THEN HE WENT TO THE
BORING, SO THEN HE WENT TO THE
BILTMORE, ARIZONA BILTMORE IN
BILTMORE, ARIZONA BILTMORE IN
PHOENIX, AND THAT WAS TOO PROPER
PHOENIX, AND THAT WAS TOO PROPER
FOR HIM.
FOR HIM.
HE WOUND UP AT THE CAMELBACK INN
HE WOUND UP AT THE CAMELBACK INN
AND STAYED I'M NOT QUOTE SURE
AND STAYED I'M NOT QUOTE SURE
HOW LONG.
HOW LONG.
BUT THAT WAS MORE TO HIS LIKING.
BUT THAT WAS MORE TO HIS LIKING.
A LOT MORE ACTION.
A LOT MORE ACTION.
>> THEN HE WENT BACK TO
>> THEN HE WENT BACK TO
MASSACHUSETTS, RAN FOR CONGRESS,
MASSACHUSETTS, RAN FOR CONGRESS,
BECAME A U.S. SENATOR, MADE
BECAME A U.S. SENATOR, MADE
ANOTHER VISIT TO ARIZONA NOW AS
ANOTHER VISIT TO ARIZONA NOW AS
A PUBLIC FIGURE, 1958.
A PUBLIC FIGURE, 1958.
CORRECT?
CORRECT?
>> YES.
>> YES.
>> U.S. SENATOR.
>> U.S. SENATOR.
>> I WAS REALLY SURPRISED TO
>> I WAS REALLY SURPRISED TO
LEARN THAT, THAT TUCSON HISTORY
LEARN THAT, THAT TUCSON HISTORY
IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE SUBJECTS,
IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE SUBJECTS,
AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE CAN BE
AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE CAN BE
REALLY PROUD OF IS THE ARIZONA
REALLY PROUD OF IS THE ARIZONA
FORUM.
FORUM.
WE WERE ABLE TO BRING LEADING
WE WERE ABLE TO BRING LEADING
FIGURES IN POLITICS AND THEATER
FIGURES IN POLITICS AND THEATER
AND EVERYTHING ELSE WOULD COME
AND EVERYTHING ELSE WOULD COME
TO APPEAR ON THE SUNDAY EVENING
TO APPEAR ON THE SUNDAY EVENING
FORUM WHICH WAS OPEN TO THE
FORUM WHICH WAS OPEN TO THE
PUBLIC AND IT WAS A PANEL
PUBLIC AND IT WAS A PANEL
SITUATION WHERE PEOPLE WOULD BE
SITUATION WHERE PEOPLE WOULD BE
INTERVIEWED.
INTERVIEWED.
>> HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
>> HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
ARIZONA IN WHAT IS NOW CALLED
ARIZONA IN WHAT IS NOW CALLED
CENTENNIAL HALL.
CENTENNIAL HALL.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT.
>> ANY IDEA WHAT KIND OF CROWD
>> ANY IDEA WHAT KIND OF CROWD
KENNEDY DREW AT THAT TIME?
KENNEDY DREW AT THAT TIME?
>> I'M REALLY NOT SURE.
>> I'M REALLY NOT SURE.
BUT THE BEST QUESTION THAT I
BUT THE BEST QUESTION THAT I
LEARNED ABOUT WAS SOMEBODY IN
LEARNED ABOUT WAS SOMEBODY IN
THE AUDIENCE ASKED HIM, IT'S A
THE AUDIENCE ASKED HIM, IT'S A
PANEL SITUATION, DO YOU THINK A
PANEL SITUATION, DO YOU THINK A
42-YEAR-OLD MAN COULD RUN FOR
42-YEAR-OLD MAN COULD RUN FOR
PRESIDENT, AND THIS IS IN 1958,
PRESIDENT, AND THIS IS IN 1958,
SO JACK REALLY QUICK ON HIS
SO JACK REALLY QUICK ON HIS
HEELS, SAID NO, BUT I THINK A
HEELS, SAID NO, BUT I THINK A
43-YEAR-OLD MAN COULD RUN FOR
43-YEAR-OLD MAN COULD RUN FOR
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT.
>> WHICH WOULD BE JUST A COUPLE
>> WHICH WOULD BE JUST A COUPLE
YEARS LATER.
YEARS LATER.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> AND HE DID RUN FOR PRESIDENT
>> AND HE DID RUN FOR PRESIDENT
A COUPLE YEARS LATER.
A COUPLE YEARS LATER.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> THEN HIS NEXT TIME THAT WE
>> THEN HIS NEXT TIME THAT WE
KNOW OF AT LEAST BASED ON YOUR
KNOW OF AT LEAST BASED ON YOUR
RESEARCH THAT HE WAS IN ARIZONA
RESEARCH THAT HE WAS IN ARIZONA
WAS JUST BEFORE THAT 1960
WAS JUST BEFORE THAT 1960
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT.
HIS PLANE LANDED IN PHOENIX,
HIS PLANE LANDED IN PHOENIX,
PHOENIX AIRPORT, AT 3:00 IN THE
PHOENIX AIRPORT, AT 3:00 IN THE
MORNING.
MORNING.
HE GOT OFF THE PLANE AND THIS IS
HE GOT OFF THE PLANE AND THIS IS
NOVEMBER 3rd, AND THERE WAS A
NOVEMBER 3rd, AND THERE WAS A
LITTLE TINY CROWD THERE AND HE
LITTLE TINY CROWD THERE AND HE
MADE -- HE GAVE A FEW WORDS, AND
MADE -- HE GAVE A FEW WORDS, AND
THEN GOT BACK ON THE PLANE AND
THEN GOT BACK ON THE PLANE AND
TWO DAYS LATER, WE HAD THE
TWO DAYS LATER, WE HAD THE
ELECTION AND HE WAS PRESIDENT.
ELECTION AND HE WAS PRESIDENT.
SO THIS WAS KIND OF THE LAST
SO THIS WAS KIND OF THE LAST
CAMPAIGN STOP THAT HE HAD.
CAMPAIGN STOP THAT HE HAD.
>> HE WAS PROBABLY ON HIS WAY TO
>> HE WAS PROBABLY ON HIS WAY TO
CALIFORNIA, WHICH HE WON -- NO,
CALIFORNIA, WHICH HE WON -- NO,
HE LOST IN THAT ELECTION, AND HE
HE LOST IN THAT ELECTION, AND HE
LOST ARIZONA TO RICHARD NIXON IN
LOST ARIZONA TO RICHARD NIXON IN
THAT ELECTION AS WELL, ALTHOUGH
THAT ELECTION AS WELL, ALTHOUGH
AT THAT AIRPORT SPEECH, AND I
AT THAT AIRPORT SPEECH, AND I
SAW A COPY OF IT, HE SAID THAT
SAW A COPY OF IT, HE SAID THAT
BARRY GOLDWATER WAS WRONG, THAT
BARRY GOLDWATER WAS WRONG, THAT
HE WOULD -- THAT THE DEMOCRATS
HE WOULD -- THAT THE DEMOCRATS
WOULD PREVAIL IN ARIZONA.
WOULD PREVAIL IN ARIZONA.
NIXON TOOK ARIZONA 56% TO ABOUT
NIXON TOOK ARIZONA 56% TO ABOUT
44% FOR KENNEDY.
44% FOR KENNEDY.
OTHER ARIZONA CONNECTIONS FOR
OTHER ARIZONA CONNECTIONS FOR
KENNEDY, ANYTHING THAT YOU KNOW
KENNEDY, ANYTHING THAT YOU KNOW
OF?
OF?
>> 1961, BACK IN PHOENIX AT THE
>> 1961, BACK IN PHOENIX AT THE
WESTWARD --
WESTWARD --
>> HE'S PRESIDENT NOW.
>> HE'S PRESIDENT NOW.
>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.
>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.
VERY FEW PRESIDENTS ACTUALLY --
VERY FEW PRESIDENTS ACTUALLY --
WELL, I GUESS MAYBE HALF A DOZEN
WELL, I GUESS MAYBE HALF A DOZEN
VISITED ARIZONA WHILE THEY WERE
VISITED ARIZONA WHILE THEY WERE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT.
BUT SENATOR CARL HAYDEN WAS
BUT SENATOR CARL HAYDEN WAS
CELEBRATING HIS 50th YEAR IN
CELEBRATING HIS 50th YEAR IN
CONGRESS.
CONGRESS.
HE WENT TO CONGRESS IN 1912,
HE WENT TO CONGRESS IN 1912,
WHEN ARIZONA BECAME A STATE, SO
WHEN ARIZONA BECAME A STATE, SO
IN 1961, '62, JACK KENNEDY CAME
IN 1961, '62, JACK KENNEDY CAME
TO ARIZONA TO HELP CARL HAYDEN
TO ARIZONA TO HELP CARL HAYDEN
CELEBRATE.
CELEBRATE.
>> THEN CARL HAYDEN WAS A U.S.
>> THEN CARL HAYDEN WAS A U.S.
SENATOR, WE HAVE A PICTURE OF
SENATOR, WE HAVE A PICTURE OF
HIM COMING UP IN A FEW MINUTES,
HIM COMING UP IN A FEW MINUTES,
HE WAS A U.S. SENATOR AND AT
HE WAS A U.S. SENATOR AND AT
THAT TIME, HE SET THE LONGEVITY
THAT TIME, HE SET THE LONGEVITY
RECORD FOR BEING A MEMBER OF
RECORD FOR BEING A MEMBER OF
CONGRESS.
CONGRESS.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> IT'S SINCE BEEN BROKEN.
>> IT'S SINCE BEEN BROKEN.
BUT KENNEDY WAS HERE TO
BUT KENNEDY WAS HERE TO
CELEBRATE WITH CARL HAYDEN, WHO
CELEBRATE WITH CARL HAYDEN, WHO
WAS A DEMOCRAT, BY THE WAY,
WAS A DEMOCRAT, BY THE WAY,
RIGHT?
RIGHT?
>> OH, I KNEW THAT.
>> OH, I KNEW THAT.
>> NOW, WHAT LED YOU TO DO YOUR
>> NOW, WHAT LED YOU TO DO YOUR
RESEARCH IN THIS?
RESEARCH IN THIS?
WE JUST HAVE A SHORT TIME
WE JUST HAVE A SHORT TIME
REMAINING, LESS THAN A MINUTE.
REMAINING, LESS THAN A MINUTE.
>> SURE.
>> SURE.
I WAS WORKING AT THE ARIZONA
I WAS WORKING AT THE ARIZONA
HISTORICAL SOCIETY, AND RETIRED
HISTORICAL SOCIETY, AND RETIRED
FROM THE HISTORIAN POSITION
FROM THE HISTORIAN POSITION
THERE, AND A FRIEND OF MINE WHO
THERE, AND A FRIEND OF MINE WHO
WAS VOLUNTEERING AT THE MUSEUM
WAS VOLUNTEERING AT THE MUSEUM
IN BENSON, ARIZONA, SHOWED ME
IN BENSON, ARIZONA, SHOWED ME
THIS PHOTOCOPY OF A NEWSPAPER
THIS PHOTOCOPY OF A NEWSPAPER
PICTURE, AND HE SAID CAN YOU
PICTURE, AND HE SAID CAN YOU
TELL WHO'S IN THAT PICTURE.
TELL WHO'S IN THAT PICTURE.
I WENT OH, MY GOSH, IT'S JFK AS
I WENT OH, MY GOSH, IT'S JFK AS
A TEENAGER.
A TEENAGER.
>> SO YOU STARTED INTO THAT.
>> SO YOU STARTED INTO THAT.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH.
>> EXCELLENT.
>> EXCELLENT.
MR. TURNER, JIM TURNER, ARIZONA
MR. TURNER, JIM TURNER, ARIZONA
HISTORIAN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR
HISTORIAN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR
SPEAKING WITH US TODAY.
SPEAKING WITH US TODAY.
>> WELL, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> WELL, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>>> AS A 14-YEAR-OLD FRESHMAN AT
>>> AS A 14-YEAR-OLD FRESHMAN AT
A CATHOLIC HIGH SCHOOL, I WAS AS
A CATHOLIC HIGH SCHOOL, I WAS AS
TAKEN WITH KENNEDY'S CHARISMA AS
TAKEN WITH KENNEDY'S CHARISMA AS
ANYONE.
ANYONE.
MY MEMORY IS OF HEARING THE NEWS
MY MEMORY IS OF HEARING THE NEWS
ON MY TRAN SISTOR RADIO WHEN
ON MY TRAN SISTOR RADIO WHEN
HOME FROM SCHOOL IN TUCSON.
HOME FROM SCHOOL IN TUCSON.
I IMMEDIATELY CALLED MY DAD AND
I IMMEDIATELY CALLED MY DAD AND
TRIED TO REACH MY MOM, THEN
TRIED TO REACH MY MOM, THEN
REMAINED GLUED TO THE RADIO FOR
REMAINED GLUED TO THE RADIO FOR
THE REST OF THE DAY.
THE REST OF THE DAY.
KENNEDY'S LIFE AND DEATH MADE
KENNEDY'S LIFE AND DEATH MADE
THEIR MARKS ON OUR NATION AND ON
THEIR MARKS ON OUR NATION AND ON
EACH OF US AS INDIVIDUAL
EACH OF US AS INDIVIDUAL
AMERICANS.
AMERICANS.
FOR ME, HE WAS AN ADULT WITH
FOR ME, HE WAS AN ADULT WITH
WHOM I COULD IDENTIFY, BECAUSE
WHOM I COULD IDENTIFY, BECAUSE
HE WAS YOUTHFUL AND CLEAR IN
HE WAS YOUTHFUL AND CLEAR IN
ENUNCIATING HIS VIEW OF WHAT THE
ENUNCIATING HIS VIEW OF WHAT THE
WORLD SHOULD BE LIKE.
WORLD SHOULD BE LIKE.
FOR AN IDEALISTIC TEENAGER, THAT
FOR AN IDEALISTIC TEENAGER, THAT
WAS CAPTIVATING AND THE SUDDEN
WAS CAPTIVATING AND THE SUDDEN
LOSS LEFT A VOID NOT FILLED IN
LOSS LEFT A VOID NOT FILLED IN
THAT TIME BY ANY OTHER LEADER.
THAT TIME BY ANY OTHER LEADER.
WE'LL END THIS EVENING WITH A
WE'LL END THIS EVENING WITH A
MONTAGE OF PHOTOS MARKING JFK'S
MONTAGE OF PHOTOS MARKING JFK'S
CONNECTION TO ARIZONA STARTING
CONNECTION TO ARIZONA STARTING
WITH THIS 1961 IMAGE FROM THE
WITH THIS 1961 IMAGE FROM THE
TUCSON CITIZEN OF THE PRESIDENT
TUCSON CITIZEN OF THE PRESIDENT
AT A NEWS CONFERENCE IN TUCSON.
AT A NEWS CONFERENCE IN TUCSON.
KENNEDY VISITED ARIZONA MORE
KENNEDY VISITED ARIZONA MORE
THAN WE MIGHT HAVE BEEN AWARE,
THAN WE MIGHT HAVE BEEN AWARE,
INCLUDING AS HISTORIAN JIM
INCLUDING AS HISTORIAN JIM
TURNER MENTIONED, TIME AS A
TURNER MENTIONED, TIME AS A
TEENAGER ON A RANCH NEAR BENSON.
TEENAGER ON A RANCH NEAR BENSON.
HERE HE IS WITH COWBOY PETE
HERE HE IS WITH COWBOY PETE
HAVERTY IN A PHOTO DATED 1936
HAVERTY IN A PHOTO DATED 1936
FROM THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC.
FROM THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC.
SOUTHERN ARIZONA CONGRESSMAN
SOUTHERN ARIZONA CONGRESSMAN
STUART UDALL BECAME KENNEDY'S
STUART UDALL BECAME KENNEDY'S
SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR AND
SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR AND
MORRIS UDALL, SHOWN WITH KENNEDY
MORRIS UDALL, SHOWN WITH KENNEDY
IN THIS PHOTO FROM THE UDALL
IN THIS PHOTO FROM THE UDALL
ARCHIVES AT THE U OF A SUCCEEDED
ARCHIVES AT THE U OF A SUCCEEDED
HIS BROTHER IN CONGRESS.
HIS BROTHER IN CONGRESS.
FINALLY, THIS IMAGE ALSO FROM
FINALLY, THIS IMAGE ALSO FROM
THE U OF A UDALL ARCHIVES SHOW
THE U OF A UDALL ARCHIVES SHOW
ARIZONA POLITICAL LEADERS DURING
ARIZONA POLITICAL LEADERS DURING
KENNEDY'S PRESIDENCY FROM LEFT,
KENNEDY'S PRESIDENCY FROM LEFT,
CONGRESSMAN JOHN RHODES, SENATOR
CONGRESSMAN JOHN RHODES, SENATOR
BARRY GOLDWATER, GOVERNOR PAUL
BARRY GOLDWATER, GOVERNOR PAUL
FANNON, CONGRESSMAN MORRIS
FANNON, CONGRESSMAN MORRIS
UDALL, SENATOR CARL HAYDEN, AND
UDALL, SENATOR CARL HAYDEN, AND
INTERIOR SECRETARY STUART UDALL.
INTERIOR SECRETARY STUART UDALL.
THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR FRIDAY,
THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR FRIDAY,
NOVEMBER 22nd, 2013.
NOVEMBER 22nd, 2013.
NEXT FRIDAY, A LOOK AT ARIZONA'S
NEXT FRIDAY, A LOOK AT ARIZONA'S
BUSINESS RELATIONSHIPS WITH
BUSINESS RELATIONSHIPS WITH
MEXICO.
MEXICO.
FOR "ARIZONA WEEK" I'M MICHAEL
FOR "ARIZONA WEEK" I'M MICHAEL
CHIHAK.
CHIHAK.
>> PRODUCTION OF "ARIZONA WEEK"
>> PRODUCTION OF "ARIZONA WEEK"
IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PARTS BY A
IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PARTS BY A
GRANT FROM THE STONEWALL
GRANT FROM THE STONEWALL
FOUNDATION AND BY THE MEMBERS OF
FOUNDATION AND BY THE MEMBERS OF
ARIZONA PUBLIC MEDIA.
ARIZONA PUBLIC MEDIA.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED
THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED
SUPPORT.