WEBVTT

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- Hi, I'm Clive Gillinson the
executive artistic director

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of Carnegie Hall.

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And it's wonderful
to welcome you

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to this very special
virtual event.

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Celebrating the
national broadcast

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of Marian Anderson,

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The whole world in her hands

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on the American
Master series on PBS.

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Marian Anderson had a more

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than 70 year association
with Carnegie Hall.

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She made her Carnegie
Hall debut in 1920,

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presented her first
Carnegie Hall recital

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in 1928 and performed
for the last time

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in New York on Carnegie Hall's

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stage at her farewell
recital in 1965.

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She later made a small number
of speaking appearances.

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Her last one was in 1989.

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All told she appeared
at the hall 57 times.

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In 1960 at the invitation
of Isaac Stern.

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She became one of the
original board members

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of the Carnegie
Hall Corporation.

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When the hall was
saved from demolition,

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she remained on the board
until her death in 1993,

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on the occasion of the
hundred 125th anniversary

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of Marian Anderson's birth,

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we could not be happier that
this wonderful documentary

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film will appear on the
American Master series.

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She was most certainly that.

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The film would not
have been possible

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without the vision of
it's director, Rita Coburn

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and the generous
support of many funders

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who recognized the
importance of this project,

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including the Better Angel
Society, two of whose members,

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are Carnegie Hall
trustees, Mercedes T. Bass,

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and the chairman of the
Carnegie Hall board,

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Robert F. Smith.

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We're very grateful
for WNET's gracious

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invitation to join them in
this special virtual event.

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- [Woman] She was the
first African American

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to make her debut at
the Metropolitan Opera.

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- [Woman 2] She was pursued
by nobility and aristocracy.

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She enjoyed the life of a diva.

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- [Man] Marian Anderson was
the first African American

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artist to be signed
by RCA, Victor.

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- [Man 2] She was performing
in Europe for Kings and Queens,

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and she would come back
home to her own country

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and have to sit at
the back of the train.

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In response, you stood
flatfooted and she sang.

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- [Man 3] Easter
Sunday, April 9th, 1939.

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- [Woman 3] There
was a multitude

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such in your
wildest imagination.

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- [Woman 4] Even though we
may not be able to articulate

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why that person's voice moves us

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so much because
it's speaking to so

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many different
parts of who we are.

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That's what her voice had,

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this incredible power
in it to stop a nation.

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- Hello, I'm Michael Canter,

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executive producer
of American Masters,

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which is produced
here in New York

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for the WNET Group.

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In advance of
tomorrow's broadcast

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premier of American Masters,

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Marian Anderson: The
Whole World in Her Hands.

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I wanna welcome you to
tonight's Zoom a event.

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We're delighted to
be recognizing this
pioneering artist

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as we begin black history month.

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Before we hear from
our fantastic panel,

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I wanna thank the public
television viewers

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like you, who help us at
American Masters produce

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the kind of quality
program which

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this series is known for.

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And to all the supporters

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of Carnegie Hall and the
Better Angel Society.

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We're deeply grateful
to all of you as well.

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Here's a quick look at those
who made this program possible.

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- [Announcer] Support for
American Masters provided by.

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Support for this
program provided by

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the National Endowment
for the Humanities,

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bringing you the
stories that define us.

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- Tonight's event
was made possible

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by the extremely
generous support

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of Robert F. Smith
chairman of the board

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of Carnegie Hall
and Mercedes Bass

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vice chair of Carnegie Hall.

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And we want to give a very
special thanks to them.

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Now, tonight, I'm
pleased to welcome

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director Rita Coburn
celebrated mezzo-soprano,

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Denyce Graves and legendary
tenor, George Shirley.

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Rita Coburn is a Peabody

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and Emmy Award-winning director,

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writer and producer
of radio, television,

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and film.

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Beginning her
career as a producer

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and writer for various news
outlets across the U.S.

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Rita went on to
produce for the likes

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of the Oprah Winfrey
Show, Oprah radio,

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Apollo Live, and Walt
Disney Productions.

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Her work aims to bridge the gap

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between generations
and preserves

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African American history.

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Denyce, mezzo-soprano,

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Denyce Graves has performed
all over the world

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in opera houses, including
the Metropolitan Opera,

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The Royal Opera, Opera
National de Paris

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and the Vienna State
Opera among many others.

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She's become
particularly well known

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for her portrayals
of the title roles

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in Carmen and
Sampson and Delilah.

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George Shirley was the
first African American tenor

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and only the second
African American male

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to sing leading roles with
the Metropolitan Opera,

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where he remained for 11 years.

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His career span nearly 50 years,

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and he's won
international acclaim

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for his performances in the
world's greatest opera houses,

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including the Met,
The Royal Opera,

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l'Opera de Monte-Carlo
and of course, many,

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many more, he's in
demand nationally

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and internationally as a
performer, teacher and lecturer.

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So welcome all.

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And let's first
start with a clip

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from the film where we'll

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all hear Marian
Anderson speaking voice.

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This is one of the great
pleasures of the film to hear

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directly from Marian
Anderson herself.

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So please enjoy a
section on how important

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the church was to her
musical education.

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- [George] The church
was the epicenter.

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We went to church for dinners.

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We went to church
for social events.

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We went to church for
religious services.

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Sunday was an all day affair.

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- [Marian] At six years old,

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we were taken to the
children's choir with my aunt

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after a short while
the group was singing

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so well that we sang for
The Big Thunder School.

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By the time we arrived
at our little house,

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the director of the
choir had already

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been there and left.

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My mother told my
father that Mr. Robinson

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wanted to be sure that

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I would be able to be in
church earlier the next Sunday,

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because there were
going to be visitors

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and he wanted that
we should sing.

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My father said in reply to that.

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"I'm not going to have them
singing my child to death",

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my first public appearance.

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- So Rita tell us about
these voice recordings

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that you found of
Marian Anderson

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and what surprised you
when you heard them.

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- Well as a documentarian,

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you chase the story
until it chases you.

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And so I went to the University

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of Pennsylvania's Kislak
Center that houses,

07:27.280 --> 07:31.918 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
the Marian Anderson
archives, over 6,000 letters,

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4,000 photographs.

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And they had just compiled
34 real to real tapes.

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They hadn't been there before.

07:41.627 --> 07:44.197 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So my spirit said
since they are there,

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listen, I listened to
all 34 transcribed them.

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And what I was most
excited about was

07:51.370 --> 07:55.508 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
that unlike anything I
had heard or seen before,

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we were going to be able
to call a documentary

07:59.111 --> 08:02.648 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that would have her
own voice saying

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how she felt about her life.

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And so the agency that
she had as a person,

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the renaissance woman,

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that she was from
1897 being born,

08:14.060 --> 08:16.462 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
to forwarding her career.

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I wanted to hear from her.

08:18.097 --> 08:19.732 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And I thought that other people

08:19.732 --> 08:22.335 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
would want to hear
from her as well.

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Deep belly laughs her opinions
on how she felt about things.

08:27.039 --> 08:30.376 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
I thought that was important
to bring to this documentary.

08:31.711 --> 08:32.912 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
- Thanks. Well, George,

08:32.912 --> 08:35.648 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
you actually apparently
met Marian Anderson

08:35.648 --> 08:37.550 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
in the hall of a
library where you

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were working as a student
and then had the chance

08:41.721 --> 08:44.357 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to interview her rather
for a radio program.

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What did you learn from
interviewing her and why do you

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think she's a pioneer in the
world of classical music?

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- Well, I think it's
really a apparent

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that she was a pioneer.

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She was one of the very
first to be accepted

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worldwide as a major artist.

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From her interview, I
learned more about her life.

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It was exciting to be
sitting and talking

09:16.756 --> 09:19.325 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to this woman,
asking her questions.

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This was at the WQXR
Film in New York City.

09:24.730 --> 09:27.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
I met her first as. I was a page

09:27.366 --> 09:30.736 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
at one of the local
libraries in Detroit.

09:30.736 --> 09:35.007 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And one of the sororities
gave her a tea.

09:35.007 --> 09:36.909 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
They hosted a tea for her.

09:36.909 --> 09:39.011 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And there was a moment
when she was standing

09:39.011 --> 09:42.381 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
by herself and I
pushed my truckload

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of books up and handed her
one of these little notes

09:46.285 --> 09:49.155 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that people would sign
and asked for books,

09:49.155 --> 09:51.290 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
and she smiled and signed it.

09:51.290 --> 09:55.728 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I have that in
my possession today,

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but she was a legend
listening to her

09:57.663 --> 09:59.865 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
as a child on the radio

10:01.267 --> 10:06.238 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
to think that I would ever meet
her, was a dream come true.

10:07.773 --> 10:09.609 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
So yes, she was.

10:09.609 --> 10:12.745 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She always spoke
of herself as a we,

10:12.745 --> 10:14.880 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
we will do this,
we will do that.

10:14.880 --> 10:17.583 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And that was not just humility,

10:17.583 --> 10:19.986 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but she was absolutely
correct in that

10:19.986 --> 10:24.423 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
because we are all everyone
that has preceded us,

10:24.423 --> 10:28.027 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
we are given genes
from our ancestors.

10:28.027 --> 10:31.564 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So we are not just one
person. We are many.

10:31.564 --> 10:34.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So she was absolutely
on target with that.

10:34.400 --> 10:36.535 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
She was modest.

10:36.535 --> 10:40.272 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
She was a quiet force of love.

10:40.272 --> 10:42.241 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And that's what
you hear whenever

10:42.241 --> 10:47.213 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
she opens her mouth
to sing and to speak,

10:47.213 --> 10:52.184 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
her voice goes right to
the core of your soul.

10:53.586 --> 10:55.588 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
That's what made her special,
that magnificent voice.

10:55.588 --> 10:56.822 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
She was built like a singer

10:56.822 --> 10:59.191 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
looking at that face,
those cheekbones,

10:59.191 --> 11:02.228 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
the structure and
the sound that came

11:02.228 --> 11:05.698 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
out is forever with us.

11:05.698 --> 11:10.503 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Those of us who heard
her from childhood

11:10.503 --> 11:14.607 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and for me having
the honor of sitting

11:14.607 --> 11:16.375 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
with this woman of
meeting her the last

11:16.375 --> 11:19.645 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
time I saw her was at the
Mets 100th anniversary.

11:19.645 --> 11:23.115 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She was in a wheelchair
and I went over

11:23.115 --> 11:26.052 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
during one of the breaks
and spoke with her briefly.

11:26.052 --> 11:27.553 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
The smile was there.

11:27.553 --> 11:31.657 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
She was a magnet
in so many ways.

11:31.657 --> 11:35.661 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And again, it was
a blessing to get

11:35.661 --> 11:39.465 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
to know more of her, from her.

11:39.465 --> 11:42.935 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I'm grateful for
that always will be.

11:43.869 --> 11:45.304 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
- Thank you.

11:45.304 --> 11:49.875 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Well, Denyce, this first
segment was about her experience

11:49.875 --> 11:51.143 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
growing up in the church,

11:51.143 --> 11:54.180 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
you actually created a
program called "Church"

11:54.180 --> 11:57.416 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that involved Dr. Maya
Angelo, among others.

11:57.416 --> 12:01.220 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
For me, Marian Anderson truly
seems like a saintly person

12:01.220 --> 12:02.655 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
and you got to know her.

12:02.655 --> 12:04.890 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
What were your impressions
of her as a person?

12:06.292 --> 12:07.760 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
- Well, thank you so much.

12:07.760 --> 12:09.895 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And I love everything that
Dr. Shirley just said,

12:09.895 --> 12:12.598 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I'm not sure that I got
to know her as it were.

12:12.598 --> 12:14.467 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
I was kind enough to,

12:15.334 --> 12:16.602 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
she was kind enough to invite me

12:16.602 --> 12:19.438 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to her home in
Danbury, Connecticut.

12:19.438 --> 12:20.840 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
I was, I can't remember.

12:20.840 --> 12:22.842 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
It must have been 92
was one of the winners

12:22.842 --> 12:25.611 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
of the Marian Anderson Award.

12:25.611 --> 12:28.681 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And part of that
award meant giving

12:28.681 --> 12:32.384 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
a concert at Charles
Ive Center in Danbury.

12:32.384 --> 12:35.855 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And she was kind enough
to invite me twice

12:35.855 --> 12:40.159 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
to her home to be in her
presence, to talk with her.

12:40.159 --> 12:42.228 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
But one of the things
that was incredibly

12:42.228 --> 12:44.330 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
striking to me
about her is that,

12:44.330 --> 12:46.298 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
and perhaps she had spent

12:46.298 --> 12:48.601 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
so much of her life time talking

12:48.601 --> 12:51.103 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
about the famous
concert in 1939.

12:51.103 --> 12:52.538 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She didn't wanna
talk about herself.

12:52.538 --> 12:54.140 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She didn't wanna talk
about her career.

12:54.140 --> 12:58.377 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She was more interested
in sharing the work

12:58.377 --> 13:00.446 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that she was doing
with the salvation army

13:00.446 --> 13:03.082 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and the work that she
was doing with children.

13:03.082 --> 13:05.384 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And she wanted to
know what I was doing

13:05.384 --> 13:06.519 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
and what was going on.

13:06.519 --> 13:08.187 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And the day that I visited her,

13:09.388 --> 13:11.390 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
her nursemaid told me,
said, oh my goodness,

13:11.390 --> 13:13.192 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
had you been here
five minutes earlier,

13:13.192 --> 13:15.060 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Kathleen Battle just left.

13:15.060 --> 13:16.796 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And so I was so
happy to know that

13:16.796 --> 13:19.832 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
there was this
community of supporters

13:19.832 --> 13:24.403 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and those for whom she
trail blazed and laid

13:24.403 --> 13:26.438 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
this path for were
coming to surround her

13:26.438 --> 13:30.709 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and letting her know
how much we honor her

13:30.709 --> 13:33.946 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and appreciate her and
all that she's done.

13:33.946 --> 13:36.182 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So I wouldn't say that I
really got to know her,

13:36.182 --> 13:37.716 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
but I did have the great, great,

13:37.716 --> 13:41.320 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
great fortune of being in her
presence of speaking with her.

13:41.320 --> 13:43.956 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And she did give me some
very precious things.

13:43.956 --> 13:47.459 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
I mean, besides that moment,
but she gave me a wonderful,

13:47.459 --> 13:51.030 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
a beautiful gown and
let me into her closet.

13:51.030 --> 13:53.432 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And we were able to be sort
of girls together and tell,

13:53.432 --> 13:54.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
oh, look at this and
look at that one.

13:54.500 --> 13:57.036 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
And that was incredible.

13:57.036 --> 13:59.171 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I wore that
only a few times.

13:59.171 --> 14:00.773 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And since that time
have donated it

14:00.773 --> 14:03.342 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
to the Smithsonian Museum,

14:03.342 --> 14:07.146 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
but when we did the
reenactment of her concert

14:08.314 --> 14:11.483 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
at the Lincoln Memorial,
I wore the gown then.

14:12.685 --> 14:13.919 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50%
- Wow.

14:13.919 --> 14:15.187 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- So it was just, it
was an extraordinary,

14:15.187 --> 14:17.356 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and I feel the same way
that Dr. Shirley feels,

14:17.356 --> 14:20.392 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I just could not even
believe the fortune

14:20.392 --> 14:22.928 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
to sit across from this legend.

14:22.928 --> 14:25.798 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I remember in the
fourth grade, you know,

14:25.798 --> 14:28.267 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
when it was black
history week learning

14:28.267 --> 14:33.038 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
about Marian Anderson and
Jess, I could not believe

14:33.038 --> 14:36.475 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
that I was face to face
with this incredible legend

14:36.475 --> 14:39.578 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
and this just regal presence.

14:39.578 --> 14:40.579 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
It was amazing.

14:42.047 --> 14:44.984 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- Well, she may have
ultimately tired

14:44.984 --> 14:48.020 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
of talking about that
important concert in 1939,

14:48.020 --> 14:52.791 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but it's a centerpiece
of any American history

14:52.791 --> 14:55.828 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and Rita Coburn's
extraordinary film covers

14:55.828 --> 14:57.963 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
the full scope of
Marian Anderson's life,

14:57.963 --> 15:00.599 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
including when she
performed for the composer,

15:00.599 --> 15:03.269 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Sibelius in Finland, who said,

15:03.269 --> 15:07.940 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
my roof is too low for you
before calling for champagne.

15:07.940 --> 15:09.275 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
Here in the U.S.

15:09.275 --> 15:12.044 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I think she consecrated
the Lincoln Memorial

15:12.044 --> 15:14.813 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
as the place for our
country to come together

15:14.813 --> 15:18.784 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to consider important
issues of social justice

15:18.784 --> 15:20.953 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and a little
historical background

15:20.953 --> 15:22.221 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
on that concert.

15:22.221 --> 15:23.389 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
That's in the film,

15:23.389 --> 15:25.724 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
even though Marian
Anderson had first sung

15:25.724 --> 15:29.261 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
at Carnegie Hall in 1920 and
performed all over the world.

15:29.261 --> 15:32.698 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
In 1939, there were plans
to present her in concert

15:32.698 --> 15:34.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
in the Washington DC area.

15:34.733 --> 15:37.036 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And the first plan
was for her to sing

15:37.036 --> 15:40.806 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
at Howard University, but
their hall was too small.

15:40.806 --> 15:43.142 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And then they reached
out to an all white,

15:43.142 --> 15:45.511 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
central high school auditorium.

15:45.511 --> 15:47.212 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
They said, no.

15:47.212 --> 15:50.883 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
And then famously
the DAR Constitution
Hall was approached.

15:50.883 --> 15:52.785 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And the daughters of
the American revolution

15:52.785 --> 15:54.586 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
turned her down as well.

15:54.586 --> 15:57.489 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And ultimately with Eleanor
Roosevelt's support,

15:57.489 --> 15:59.425 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
she gave this
landmark performance

15:59.425 --> 16:00.659 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
in front of a crowd

16:00.659 --> 16:03.495 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
of 75,000 people at
the Lincoln Memorial.

16:03.495 --> 16:06.231 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So here's a clip from
our film featuring

16:06.231 --> 16:10.269 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
the late great actor, Ossie
Davis, remembering that day.

16:11.637 --> 16:14.039 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- [Ossie] So I was one
of the student body

16:14.039 --> 16:15.274 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
surrounded by 75,000

16:15.274 --> 16:18.711 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
people standing out
there that cloudy day.

16:19.878 --> 16:22.147 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
Marian Anderson
was the first one

16:22.147 --> 16:26.852 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
who made me realize that
through art and music,

16:26.852 --> 16:31.857 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
she could reach inside me and
just lift me from all that

16:33.025 --> 16:34.793 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
negativity and make
me something else.

16:37.196 --> 16:40.499 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
That Sunday will live forever.

16:44.336 --> 16:46.939 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
(Marian sings)

17:56.642 --> 17:58.510 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
- Denyce, you mentioned singing

17:58.510 --> 18:00.412 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
in tribute to Marian
Anderson in front

18:00.412 --> 18:02.014 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
of the Lincoln Memorial.

18:02.014 --> 18:04.616 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
How would you describe
Marian Anderson's

18:04.616 --> 18:07.619 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
courage and bravery in
terms of that performance

18:07.619 --> 18:09.221 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
and what it was like for you

18:09.221 --> 18:12.491 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to stand in front of
that statue and perform?

18:13.659 --> 18:15.327 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- Oh, I don't know
that I would be able

18:15.327 --> 18:18.697 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
to speak to what the
experience was like for her,

18:18.697 --> 18:22.634 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but I could share
that after 9/11,

18:22.634 --> 18:25.270 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I was invited to the
National Cathedral.

18:25.270 --> 18:27.506 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I'm born and raised
in Washington DC.

18:28.907 --> 18:32.111 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
In a service that was a response

18:32.111 --> 18:34.880 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
to what had happened at 9/11.

18:34.880 --> 18:37.749 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And that was not unusual for me

18:37.749 --> 18:39.118 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
because I live in Washington DC,

18:39.118 --> 18:40.319 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
and I have a relationship

18:40.319 --> 18:42.387 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
with Washington
National Cathedral.

18:42.387 --> 18:45.357 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And so sometimes over the
years and during the career,

18:45.357 --> 18:47.192 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
if there was a
dedication of a window,

18:47.192 --> 18:48.427 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
if there was a special service,

18:48.427 --> 18:51.430 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
they would ask me
to come and perform.

18:51.430 --> 18:54.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And so I did, but
as I stood there

18:54.800 --> 18:56.835 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
for the performance that I did

18:56.835 --> 18:58.770 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
at Washington
National Cathedral,

18:58.770 --> 19:03.709 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
I looked in the audience and I
saw President George W. Bush.

19:05.144 --> 19:08.247 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And I saw President Clinton
and I saw president Carter

19:09.515 --> 19:13.085 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I looked, and I saw
all of these incredible,

19:13.085 --> 19:14.686 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
there were five sitting
presidents there.

19:14.686 --> 19:17.189 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I said to myself
in that moment,

19:17.189 --> 19:19.558 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I wonder if this is
how Marian Anderson

19:19.558 --> 19:21.927 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
felt when she was in front.

19:21.927 --> 19:26.064 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
That's the thought that
I had, I don't know.

19:26.064 --> 19:30.102 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I mean, you know, Dr.
Shirley spoke earlier

19:30.102 --> 19:33.405 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
about the fact that
she always used "we",

19:33.405 --> 19:35.841 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
reminded of that famous phrase

19:35.841 --> 19:37.376 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
of Maya Angelou
"That I come as one,

19:37.376 --> 19:39.178 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
but I stand as 10,000".

19:39.178 --> 19:43.782 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I think that a lot
of African Americans

19:43.782 --> 19:45.050 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
certainly know this.

19:45.050 --> 19:47.686 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I was certainly taught
this and I'm sure

19:47.686 --> 19:49.154 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that probably was
the case for Rita

19:49.154 --> 19:50.355 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
and Dr. Shirley as well,

19:50.355 --> 19:53.792 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that whenever we were
out in the public,

19:53.792 --> 19:57.563 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
we were representing
the entire race.

19:57.563 --> 20:00.032 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And so, you know, we always had

20:00.032 --> 20:03.001 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to really be aware
of our behavior

20:03.001 --> 20:06.004 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and how we carried
ourselves out in public.

20:06.004 --> 20:10.108 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And so I'm sure that
there was that weight

20:12.077 --> 20:15.781 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and also pride at the same
time that she must have felt.

20:17.683 --> 20:19.184 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50%
- Rita.

20:19.184 --> 20:21.987 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
This performance is just one
of so many major performances

20:21.987 --> 20:24.556 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that Marian Anderson
gives around the world.

20:24.556 --> 20:26.024 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
The film is subtitled.

20:26.024 --> 20:28.527 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She's got the whole
world in her hands.

20:28.527 --> 20:31.296 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Tell us about her experiences
outside of the U.S.

20:32.598 --> 20:36.668 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
- I think that her experiences
outside of the U.S,

20:36.668 --> 20:41.640 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
which preceded 1939,
along with her family,

20:42.874 --> 20:45.978 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
her community and church
is where Marian Anderson

20:45.978 --> 20:47.779 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
was actually made.

20:47.779 --> 20:51.250 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She had more
opportunities in Europe,

20:52.351 --> 20:54.586 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
as Denyce says in the film,

20:54.586 --> 20:58.423 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Europe did not have the
stain that was present

20:58.423 --> 21:01.493 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
in America in enslaving people.

21:01.493 --> 21:02.961 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
So they could hear her,

21:02.961 --> 21:04.963 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
not that it was a perfect place,

21:04.963 --> 21:08.567 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
but they could hear her
for who and what she was.

21:08.567 --> 21:11.270 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And it is the birth
birthplace of Mozart

21:11.270 --> 21:15.774 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and the whole classical
music recitalist genre.

21:15.774 --> 21:20.279 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And so she stepped off
of a boat in London

21:20.279 --> 21:22.848 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and stayed at the
house of John Payne,

21:22.848 --> 21:25.050 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
a famous black baritone.

21:25.050 --> 21:29.021 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And she began to learn
there. She went on to Paris.

21:29.021 --> 21:32.858 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She went on and met
Sabellius and Finland

21:32.858 --> 21:36.395 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and the Nordic countries,
which we don't often think of.

21:36.395 --> 21:38.430 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
When we say Europe,
to be honest,

21:38.430 --> 21:41.767 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
they embraced her
more than anyone.

21:41.767 --> 21:44.469 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And she began to flourish there.

21:44.469 --> 21:48.840 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And at the time when
the Salzburg Festival

21:48.840 --> 21:51.143 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
was the concert of the world,

21:51.143 --> 21:53.679 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
she was invited to that concert.

21:53.679 --> 21:55.447 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And when she got ready to go,

21:55.447 --> 21:57.749 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
because of the rising fascism,

21:57.749 --> 22:02.120 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
she was dis-invited, the
Archbishop of Salsburg,

22:02.120 --> 22:05.257 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
who was like the ministry
of music, invited her.

22:05.257 --> 22:06.992 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And when she was dis-invited,

22:06.992 --> 22:10.729 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
they found a side stage
and she had the courage

22:10.729 --> 22:14.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and the presence to
say, I'm going anyway.

22:14.333 --> 22:16.935 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
There might be
danger in Brooklyn,

22:16.935 --> 22:20.505 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but this is in Midtown
Manhattan and I'm going.

22:20.505 --> 22:24.843 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And so she went and she
performed, and always,

22:24.843 --> 22:29.848 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
she performed her spirituals
as well as her classical music.

22:31.149 --> 22:35.120 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And had she not had
the agency to go,

22:35.120 --> 22:38.357 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
the shrewdness, the
businesswoman, the entrepreneur,

22:38.357 --> 22:41.860 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
then she would not
have met Tuscanini

22:41.860 --> 22:45.831 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
in her dressing room
at the intermission.

22:47.532 --> 22:51.169 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And he coined that phrase
that everyone now knows.

22:51.169 --> 22:54.306 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
That Sol Hurok used
to catapult her

22:54.306 --> 22:57.509 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
which was a voice
like yours is heard

22:57.509 --> 23:00.145 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
only once in a hundred years.

23:00.145 --> 23:02.147 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
And she took off.

23:02.147 --> 23:05.350 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
But at every moment,
Marian Anderson

23:05.350 --> 23:09.321 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
had the courage from her
faith and her family roots

23:09.321 --> 23:14.326 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to defy what the
normal construct was

23:15.727 --> 23:18.296 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
of the society and do
what she thought was best.

23:19.865 --> 23:23.201 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
- Well, George, you performed
on these major stages

23:23.201 --> 23:26.104 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and helped to desegregate
the opera world.

23:26.104 --> 23:30.175 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Tell us what your sense was of
how Marian Anderson did that.

23:30.175 --> 23:32.444 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Both here in the
U.S and overseas.

23:33.578 --> 23:37.883 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- Marian Anderson
was born with courage

23:37.883 --> 23:40.652 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
throughout her psyche and soma.

23:42.087 --> 23:45.390 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
For anyone to be able to stand

23:45.390 --> 23:47.859 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
in the midst of hatred,

23:47.859 --> 23:49.895 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
not knowing what
might come flying

23:49.895 --> 23:54.032 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
at you from the
crowd or wherever,

23:54.032 --> 23:58.236 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
stand up and be yourself,

24:00.205 --> 24:03.308 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
that takes tremendous courage.

24:03.308 --> 24:08.313 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And it takes a faith that
you were born to do this,

24:10.081 --> 24:14.986 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and that prayerfully you'll
be able to do it on this

24:14.986 --> 24:18.223 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
occasion and be able
to walk off stage.

24:18.223 --> 24:23.228 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
I'm reminded of man who
really gave Marian Anderson

24:25.597 --> 24:28.867 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
her first exposure
in Philadelphia,

24:28.867 --> 24:32.471 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
the black tenor Roland
Hayes who invited her

24:32.471 --> 24:35.273 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
to sing on one of his recitals.

24:36.875 --> 24:41.880 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Hayes did run into
violence in the south.

24:43.081 --> 24:44.883 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
After having been
accepted in Europe

24:46.051 --> 24:47.752 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
prior to Marian
Anderson's going,

24:47.752 --> 24:51.790 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
having been accepted in
a very special moment.

24:51.790 --> 24:53.859 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
When he made his
debut in Germany,

24:53.859 --> 24:56.628 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
he walked out on stage to "boos"

24:56.628 --> 24:58.563 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and he stood there
for 15 minutes

24:58.563 --> 25:00.131 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
or so until they
got tired of booing

25:00.131 --> 25:01.633 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
and he started singing.

25:01.633 --> 25:04.769 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
He changed his program to the,
Schubert, "Du Bist Die Ruh"

25:04.769 --> 25:07.339 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
which means you are
rest you are repose.

25:08.740 --> 25:11.510 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And at the end of that recital,
you got outstanding ovation,

25:11.510 --> 25:15.247 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
that kind of courage, to
be able to open your mouth.

25:15.247 --> 25:16.381 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
You know, the
throat is something

25:16.381 --> 25:20.252 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
that reacts to fear to anger,

25:20.252 --> 25:23.688 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but he was able to
capture that audience

25:23.688 --> 25:26.925 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that was initially
anti his being on

25:26.925 --> 25:30.762 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that stage and move
them to a point

25:30.762 --> 25:32.297 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
of getting on their feet.

25:32.297 --> 25:36.668 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
So that kind of courage was
present in Marian Anderson.

25:36.668 --> 25:39.538 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
It was present in all
of those pioneers,

25:40.739 --> 25:45.277 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Marian Anderson, Paul
Robson, Roland Hayes,

25:45.277 --> 25:48.213 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
in our house were heroes
because of their courage.

25:48.213 --> 25:50.715 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And also Joe Lewis,
believe it or not,

25:50.715 --> 25:54.019 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
who I understand at one
point studied violin,

25:54.019 --> 25:56.121 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
which I think probably
added to the power

25:56.121 --> 25:58.690 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
of his right hand.

25:58.690 --> 26:00.325 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
There was some music
in his background.

26:00.325 --> 26:03.562 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So this kind of
courage is inborn.

26:03.562 --> 26:06.865 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
It cannot be put into
anyone by society.

26:06.865 --> 26:08.199 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
It is, you're born with it.

26:08.199 --> 26:10.268 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
It may take you some
time to find it.

26:10.268 --> 26:12.270 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
If it is there,
if it's not there,

26:12.270 --> 26:15.273 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
no one can get it,
put it into you.

26:15.273 --> 26:16.875 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
You know, we who teach,

26:16.875 --> 26:19.878 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I can't put a singing
voice into someone.

26:19.878 --> 26:21.479 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
If it's not in there already,

26:21.479 --> 26:24.349 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
I can help them to uncover
it, to discover it.

26:24.349 --> 26:27.852 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And Marian Anderson
was born with it.

26:27.852 --> 26:30.956 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She was born with that
voice as she was born

26:30.956 --> 26:35.961 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
with that soul that knew
where her power came from.

26:37.128 --> 26:41.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So she was meant
to be who she was

26:43.101 --> 26:45.971 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
and to do what she did.

26:45.971 --> 26:49.341 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She was handed a script
when she was conceived,

26:49.341 --> 26:51.142 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
it was all written out.

26:51.142 --> 26:53.511 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
It was all written out.
She didn't make it.

26:53.511 --> 26:55.747 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She didn't ask to be
born, but she was born.

26:55.747 --> 26:57.949 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And she was gifted at that time

26:57.949 --> 26:59.584 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
with everything that made her,

26:59.584 --> 27:03.188 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
the woman and the
icon that she was

27:03.188 --> 27:05.991 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
and is, and always will be.

27:07.926 --> 27:09.060 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
- Wow, thank you.

27:10.862 --> 27:14.099 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Our next clip speaks
to Marian Anderson's

27:14.099 --> 27:17.502 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
incredible range and her
billing as a contralto.

27:17.502 --> 27:19.738 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
This was a kind of
a revelation to me

27:19.738 --> 27:21.406 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
as someone who
doesn't live in work

27:21.406 --> 27:22.907 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
in the world of classical music.

27:22.907 --> 27:24.843 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So take a look at
this next clip.

27:24.843 --> 27:26.111 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And then we'll talk about that.

27:26.111 --> 27:28.113 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- Although she had a
three octave range,

27:29.514 --> 27:31.182 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
she sang in the contralto mode.

27:31.182 --> 27:35.020 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80%
- Contralto being the lowest
possible female voice.

27:35.020 --> 27:38.456 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
She could sing that
to break your heart

27:38.456 --> 27:41.926 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
into a million pieces, but
she also had a great top.

27:41.926 --> 27:44.729 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She had a great high C
and her voice could live

27:44.729 --> 27:45.897 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
above the staff.

27:45.897 --> 27:48.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Meaning in soprano territory.

27:49.701 --> 27:51.302 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- [Marian] I don't
feel that the singing

27:51.302 --> 27:53.838 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
a high C was any trouble at all.

27:53.838 --> 27:55.073 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
To me, it was a larc.

28:00.178 --> 28:02.580 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
One did not confine herself

28:02.580 --> 28:06.284 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
to being either soprano or
contralto or anything else,

28:06.284 --> 28:09.120 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but one was billed
as a contralto.

28:12.023 --> 28:13.224 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
- In the operatic world.

28:13.224 --> 28:18.229 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70%
The Sopranos always
are the leading ladies.

28:19.330 --> 28:21.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I've sung some of
Marian Anderson's pieces

28:21.633 --> 28:23.635 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and they were out of
my tesitura meaning

28:23.635 --> 28:26.671 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
they were out of my
range and my voice

28:26.671 --> 28:30.241 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
is classified as a
higher voice than hers.

28:30.241 --> 28:32.911 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
It's one of the reasons that
I believe that Marian Anderson

28:32.911 --> 28:37.916 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
was not classified as a soprano
is because that would mean

28:39.117 --> 28:40.185 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that she would be
the love interest

28:40.185 --> 28:42.187 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
of a white counterpart,

28:42.187 --> 28:45.090 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
which was not accepted
at all at the time.

28:45.090 --> 28:50.095 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- So Denyce, you spoke
so eloquently about how

28:51.262 --> 28:53.098 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that classification
denied her roles.

28:53.098 --> 28:55.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Could you just expand
a little bit on that

28:55.300 --> 29:00.004 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and how, you know, you're
being a mezzo-soprano

29:00.004 --> 29:01.506 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
allows you to do certain things

29:01.506 --> 29:03.908 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
and what she was able to do

29:03.908 --> 29:06.745 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
and how miraculous that was?

29:06.745 --> 29:08.079 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- Well, I think that
one of the things

29:08.079 --> 29:09.748 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that we just heard
from Marian Anderson

29:09.748 --> 29:11.883 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
herself saying one
did not classify

29:11.883 --> 29:15.186 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
themselves as being a
mezzo or contralto soprano,

29:15.186 --> 29:16.721 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
once you sang.

29:16.721 --> 29:18.990 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And I think we saw that we
see that a lot throughout,

29:18.990 --> 29:20.191 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
sometimes throughout the career

29:20.191 --> 29:21.860 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
where we look at the
late great Jesse Norman,

29:21.860 --> 29:24.729 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
who sang as a mezzo
and then a soprano

29:24.729 --> 29:26.364 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and Shirley Verette
did the same thing.

29:26.364 --> 29:28.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Dr. Shirley knows
him very well saying

29:28.166 --> 29:30.735 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
as a mezzo singer, as a
soprano singer as a mezzo

29:30.735 --> 29:34.105 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and even a lot of the
golden age voices,

29:34.105 --> 29:37.575 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
people sang what was comfortable
for their instruments.

29:37.575 --> 29:42.247 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
But when we did the
reenactment of the concert

29:42.247 --> 29:44.415 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
at the Lincoln Memorial,
some years ago,

29:44.415 --> 29:45.683 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
back in the early nineties,

29:45.683 --> 29:49.354 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I was asked to, I was
given the great honor

29:49.354 --> 29:53.758 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
of singing everything that
was sung on the concert,

29:53.758 --> 29:55.293 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
in the keys that was written in.

29:55.293 --> 29:57.262 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And I said, wait a minute,
you guys wait a minute,

29:57.262 --> 29:58.997 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
this is high. Can we lower this?

29:58.997 --> 30:01.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And they said, no, we want
this exactly in the same keys.

30:01.800 --> 30:02.634 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
And I said, but come on.

30:02.634 --> 30:03.835 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
Nobody's gonna know.

30:03.835 --> 30:05.603 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I mean, if we lower
it like a third,

30:05.603 --> 30:07.405 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
who's gonna know, and
they said, Denyce,

30:07.405 --> 30:10.008 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
we want it to be exactly
the way that Marian And...

30:10.008 --> 30:12.443 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and I said, this is a
really high tesatura,

30:12.443 --> 30:15.013 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
meaning that it's
sitting in an area

30:15.013 --> 30:19.551 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that for me was not
comfortable, right.

30:19.551 --> 30:22.487 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Meant a lot of, you know, work.

30:22.487 --> 30:23.822 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
And I said, wow.

30:23.822 --> 30:25.356 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And that was what
got me thinking.

30:25.356 --> 30:29.360 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I thought, gee, if she
chose this repertoire,

30:29.360 --> 30:33.131 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and if she chose these
keys, that's very curious,

30:34.332 --> 30:38.069 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
because as I said,
you know, in the film,

30:38.069 --> 30:41.239 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I'm considered to
be a mezzo-soprano,

30:41.239 --> 30:43.541 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
which a medium soprano
or middle soprano

30:43.541 --> 30:45.710 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
or half soprano, the sopranos,

30:45.710 --> 30:48.112 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
like to hear that
part half soprano.

30:48.112 --> 30:52.050 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
But anyway, so that's
where my voice is.

30:52.050 --> 30:54.986 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And it's classified
higher than contralto,

30:54.986 --> 30:57.755 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
which is the lower female voice.

30:57.755 --> 31:00.124 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And I just started
thinking when we did that,

31:00.124 --> 31:02.827 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
I thought, hmm, I wonder.

31:02.827 --> 31:05.430 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And then I started
listening to her,

31:05.430 --> 31:07.765 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
seeing more and seeing
more operatic repertoire.

31:07.765 --> 31:10.735 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And there was a tremendous
amount of brilliance.

31:10.735 --> 31:13.538 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I mean, she had a
really long voice.

31:13.538 --> 31:17.342 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And for those who know,
you know, the black church,

31:17.342 --> 31:20.411 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
you know, you sing, whatever
part is needed, right.

31:20.411 --> 31:22.080 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Sometimes you sing tenor, right?

31:22.080 --> 31:23.581 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
Sometimes you sing bass,

31:23.581 --> 31:26.184 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
my mother and my aunt, they
all sang tenor, you know?

31:26.184 --> 31:29.087 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And so I think that really
developed a lot in the church.

31:29.087 --> 31:31.823 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
People developed
their full ranges.

31:33.091 --> 31:34.492 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And that may have been the case.

31:34.492 --> 31:36.961 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
I think that when Marian
Anderson sang, when Marian sang,

31:36.961 --> 31:38.196 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that's the name of
the book, isn't it?

31:38.196 --> 31:40.632 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
When Marian sang
that when she sang

31:40.632 --> 31:42.634 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
in the middle part
and the lower part,

31:42.634 --> 31:44.569 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
it was so extraordinary.

31:46.037 --> 31:49.173 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And not anything that people
had been used to hearing,

31:49.173 --> 31:52.443 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
certainly from a woman
that kind of texture,

31:52.443 --> 31:54.846 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that kind of richness
and the fullness

31:56.314 --> 31:59.017 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and the strength that that
was absolutely anchored

31:59.017 --> 32:01.352 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
in that middle and
the lower part,

32:01.352 --> 32:03.421 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
they just said,
this is a contralto.

32:03.421 --> 32:06.057 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
This is a contralto
voice because that part

32:06.057 --> 32:08.059 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
of her voice was so
incredibly interesting

32:08.059 --> 32:09.594 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
and extraordinary,

32:09.594 --> 32:11.763 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
but actually the whole voice
was extraordinary. I think.

32:12.664 --> 32:15.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
- Well, I think actually let me

32:15.166 --> 32:17.068 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
ask my colleagues
to pull up a photo

32:17.068 --> 32:19.971 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
of you in front of
the Lincoln Memorial.

32:19.971 --> 32:22.507 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
I'm pretty sure this is a photo

32:22.507 --> 32:26.110 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that represents that's
now is that gown.

32:26.110 --> 32:28.713 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
The one that Mar...
- That's her gown.

32:28.713 --> 32:30.148 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
That's a Karinska gown.

32:30.148 --> 32:33.351 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
It had her name in it, Anderson
in the back of the dress,

32:33.351 --> 32:35.219 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
just like you see
in the opera house,

32:35.219 --> 32:37.922 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but that was the gown
that she gave me.

32:37.922 --> 32:40.458 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- Wow. And that's
at the Smithsonian.

32:40.458 --> 32:42.226 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
- It's now at the Smithsonian.

32:42.226 --> 32:45.029 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
- Wow. Well, Rita, perhaps
you could speak to,

32:45.029 --> 32:47.465 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I didn't realize how
important, you know,

32:47.465 --> 32:49.834 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
the way Marian Anderson
presented herself

32:49.834 --> 32:53.638 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and the gowns and the
approach she brought to it.

32:53.638 --> 32:56.941 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And in your film, I saw
a fabric become gown.

32:56.941 --> 33:00.712 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And so on, speak to what,
what her presentation,

33:00.712 --> 33:02.780 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
how important that was.

33:02.780 --> 33:05.783 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- You know, when Marian
Anderson was young,

33:05.783 --> 33:09.387 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
a lot of people thought
that she was impoverished.

33:09.387 --> 33:12.156 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She was poor. She
was not impoverished.

33:12.156 --> 33:14.759 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Her family, her mother sewed.

33:14.759 --> 33:18.029 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And so she said herself,
we had proper clothing

33:18.029 --> 33:20.398 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and so on, but
she loved fashion.

33:20.398 --> 33:23.701 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
The first dress she
bought was 79 cents.

33:23.701 --> 33:27.538 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And she was so happy
to see an advertisement

33:27.538 --> 33:30.308 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
in the paper after
she had purchased it,

33:30.308 --> 33:31.542 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
that it meant to her.

33:31.542 --> 33:34.746 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She had some style, she
had some forethought.

33:34.746 --> 33:37.315 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Gowns, and dresses became very,

33:37.315 --> 33:42.186 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
very important to her at
the Marian Anderson museum

33:43.688 --> 33:47.525 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
in Philadelphia, that
Jillian Petel runs.

33:47.525 --> 33:52.530 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
They change the gowns all the
time and show you these gowns.

33:53.898 --> 33:56.234 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
There was a point at
which in one of her books,

33:56.234 --> 33:59.070 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
she bought a gown that
was 8,000 dollars.

33:59.070 --> 34:01.472 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And back in the day,
that was a lot of money.

34:01.472 --> 34:04.342 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And she said, and it
was worth every penny.

34:04.342 --> 34:06.344 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
She understood her look.

34:06.344 --> 34:09.647 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
She also said that
when she went south,

34:09.647 --> 34:13.851 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
she at first didn't think
she should gussy up so much,

34:13.851 --> 34:17.221 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but she said it made
the people stand proud

34:17.221 --> 34:20.558 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
that they saw what she meant.

34:20.558 --> 34:23.628 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And whether you
call it swag today,

34:23.628 --> 34:27.398 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
or whatever you call it
in the African American

34:27.398 --> 34:32.403 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
community, it was very
important to dress properly,

34:33.337 --> 34:35.473 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
to show yourself
capable of that.

34:35.473 --> 34:39.544 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Whether you had to sew or
buy or wash it out at night,

34:39.544 --> 34:41.746 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
you should be dressed
appropriately.

34:41.746 --> 34:44.715 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And I think that she took
that to another level

34:44.715 --> 34:45.683 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
from the shoes.

34:45.683 --> 34:47.452 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
You can see Sandra Grimes,

34:47.452 --> 34:52.457 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
her niece has a number of her
pieces ruching on the sleeves.

34:53.658 --> 34:57.361 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And many of it the works
were then made for her.

34:57.361 --> 35:01.032 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And I think that she loved
it. And when we say diva,

35:01.032 --> 35:04.068 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
we don't mean the way
that it's said today

35:04.068 --> 35:06.871 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
with anything negative to it.

35:06.871 --> 35:10.975 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
But she lived the life of
a person who could do that.

35:10.975 --> 35:15.780 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
She was making 4 million
dollars, after 1939 a year.

35:17.181 --> 35:21.752 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
So she could do this and
she wasn't pompous with it,

35:21.752 --> 35:24.122 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
but she knew what it meant.

35:24.122 --> 35:26.357 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And she dressed
well and loved it.

35:27.959 --> 35:30.962 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- George, did you have
that experience similar

35:30.962 --> 35:33.498 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to what Rita pointed
out for Marian Anderson

35:33.498 --> 35:35.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
of touring in the south and it

35:35.433 --> 35:37.502 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
being a sort of
hostile environment?

35:38.836 --> 35:39.670 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
- Oh yeah.

35:40.938 --> 35:45.209 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I mean, there was no
way of not running

35:45.209 --> 35:48.846 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
into that kind of thing
because it was there.

35:48.846 --> 35:51.415 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I mean, my first
Metropolitan Opera Tour,

35:51.415 --> 35:54.118 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
1962, it was interesting.

35:54.118 --> 35:57.021 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I've always said
that doors are opened

35:57.021 --> 35:59.790 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
by people on the inside
when they recognize

35:59.790 --> 36:03.594 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
that someone on the
outside needs to be inside.

36:03.594 --> 36:07.732 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And I heard that the people
in Birmingham Alabama,

36:07.732 --> 36:12.737 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
there's a big opera loving
club down there that hosted

36:14.005 --> 36:17.375 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
parties for the Met
when they came to town.

36:17.375 --> 36:21.045 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I heard that
before the company left

36:21.045 --> 36:24.882 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
for the tour, being
I'd received a letter

36:24.882 --> 36:27.485 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
from the people in
Birmingham saying,

36:27.485 --> 36:29.053 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
we really looking
forward to coming.

36:29.053 --> 36:31.789 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
You're coming. So we got
parties and what have you.

36:31.789 --> 36:35.693 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
But we really don't
want the black members

36:35.693 --> 36:38.095 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
of the company to attend.

36:39.330 --> 36:42.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
There were three black
members of the chorus

36:42.200 --> 36:43.501 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
and myself and Laintine.

36:43.501 --> 36:45.836 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Now, Laintine did
not take the train.

36:45.836 --> 36:48.806 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I took the train,
Laintine flew down.

36:48.806 --> 36:51.842 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I heard recently
that the Baltimore Hotel

36:51.842 --> 36:54.612 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
initially did not
want to accept her,

36:54.612 --> 36:56.047 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
where a lot of, you know,

36:56.047 --> 37:00.084 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
a lot of the people
stayed but being insisted.

37:00.084 --> 37:01.752 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
But, I along with
the three members

37:01.752 --> 37:06.724 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
of the company were booked
in the Peachtree Manor Hotel,

37:06.724 --> 37:08.226 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
which is up on the
top of the hill

37:08.226 --> 37:13.231 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
in the back of the
Baltimore, nice hotel.

37:13.965 --> 37:15.233 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
And one Sunday morning,

37:15.233 --> 37:17.235 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I took the bus and
that's one of the,

37:17.235 --> 37:19.136 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
cause my first trip to Atlanta,

37:19.136 --> 37:23.241 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I took the bus and I
passed a big church

37:23.241 --> 37:25.209 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
on Peachtree Street.

37:25.209 --> 37:27.078 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And there was a
long line of blacks

37:27.078 --> 37:29.680 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
dressed in their Sunday
best, standing outside.

37:31.082 --> 37:35.653 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And on the steps of the
church were two rows of men,

37:36.821 --> 37:40.658 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
white men dressed
in their Sunday best

37:40.658 --> 37:42.994 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
determined to keep
the black folks

37:42.994 --> 37:44.262 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
from coming into worship.

37:46.931 --> 37:49.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So I stayed on the bus
when downtown got off.

37:49.400 --> 37:50.935 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And this was about
the time when things

37:50.935 --> 37:53.237 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
were beginning to be
the black community

37:53.237 --> 37:57.241 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
was beginning to push
for change, 1962.

37:57.241 --> 38:00.378 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I passed a white
tower and there

38:00.378 --> 38:03.714 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
was a line of young blacks
dressed, very nicely.

38:03.714 --> 38:06.550 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Standing outside,
door was barred

38:06.550 --> 38:08.753 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
for their getting in
to have a hamburger.

38:09.954 --> 38:12.423 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And I passed a barber shop

38:14.392 --> 38:16.460 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
and it was a big barber shop.

38:16.460 --> 38:18.729 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I noted that
in the front chair,

38:18.729 --> 38:22.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
a couple rows of chairs,
there was a black barber.

38:22.400 --> 38:24.769 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
I could tell he was light
skinned, but black barber.

38:24.769 --> 38:25.603 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
I thought, gee,

38:27.204 --> 38:29.507 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
I think I'll get a haircut
while I'm down here.

38:29.507 --> 38:31.208 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
So I kept walking around,

38:31.208 --> 38:33.210 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
went back to the
hotel and I thought,

38:33.210 --> 38:35.212 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I would ask one of
the black members

38:35.212 --> 38:40.217 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
of the staff there
about the barbershop.

38:40.951 --> 38:42.219 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
And Phil said, oh yeah.

38:42.219 --> 38:44.188 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
He said, that's the
Herndon Barbershop.

38:44.188 --> 38:46.057 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Herndon was a black family.

38:46.057 --> 38:48.292 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Well, to do, I think
that Mattiwilda Dobbs,

38:48.292 --> 38:50.561 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
was related to the Herdon.

38:50.561 --> 38:51.762 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
And he said, you know,

38:51.762 --> 38:53.197 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
you can't get your
haircut there.

38:54.065 --> 38:55.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
I said, what do you mean?

38:55.266 --> 38:57.234 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
He said they don't
cut black folks here.

38:58.235 --> 38:59.937 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
So I determined, okay.

38:59.937 --> 39:02.473 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
The next day I went
down to the barbershop.

39:02.473 --> 39:04.475 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I was reading a book
on Caruso's life.

39:04.475 --> 39:07.745 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I walked in and
there were two rows.

39:07.745 --> 39:09.980 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
I mean, it was a big barber shop

39:09.980 --> 39:14.085 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and there was a seat
facing the entrance door,

39:14.085 --> 39:16.187 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
barber chair, but
no one could get,

39:16.187 --> 39:17.488 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
because it was up
against the wall,

39:17.488 --> 39:19.156 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
just there for
maybe a decoration,

39:19.156 --> 39:21.225 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
but there was a big white fella

39:21.225 --> 39:23.627 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
sitting in it, in overalls.

39:23.627 --> 39:25.796 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So I walked in and
I sat down in one

39:25.796 --> 39:28.699 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
of the chairs and the barber

39:28.699 --> 39:32.069 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
in the front was
cutting someone's hair.

39:32.069 --> 39:34.238 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I sat there for
about five minutes.

39:34.238 --> 39:35.673 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
So, and he came over to me.

39:35.673 --> 39:38.042 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
He said, can I help you?

39:38.042 --> 39:40.678 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I said, yeah, I'd
like a haircut.

39:41.846 --> 39:44.849 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
He said, well, are
you from around here?

39:44.849 --> 39:45.683 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
I said, no.

39:46.884 --> 39:49.420 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
He said, are you Indian?

39:49.420 --> 39:51.856 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
I said, no, I'm America.

39:53.090 --> 39:55.059 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
So he walked over to the guy,

39:55.059 --> 39:58.195 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
seated in the chair in front
and said something to him.

39:58.195 --> 39:59.663 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
I didn't hear what he said,

39:59.663 --> 40:01.932 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
but I think he said, well,
he said, he's Indian.

40:01.932 --> 40:03.167 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
I couldn't swear to that.

40:03.167 --> 40:05.836 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
'Cause I heard the guy
in the chair grunt.

40:07.571 --> 40:09.206 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So the barber turned
around, came back.

40:09.206 --> 40:13.644 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
He said, well, there was
a barber, two chairs back.

40:13.644 --> 40:15.679 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
There are only two
barbers working

40:15.679 --> 40:19.683 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
one in the front and then one
in the back of darker skin,

40:19.683 --> 40:21.352 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
he was cutting someone's hair.

40:21.352 --> 40:23.087 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
He said, well, the fellow,
when he finishes there,

40:23.087 --> 40:24.021 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
he'll cut your hair.

40:24.021 --> 40:25.389 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
He said, fine, thank you.

40:29.193 --> 40:30.995 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
The customer
finished and he left,

40:30.995 --> 40:34.498 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I went back and the
barber was so excited.

40:34.498 --> 40:35.533 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
He was shaking.

40:35.533 --> 40:37.334 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Like his hands were like this.

40:37.334 --> 40:40.337 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
He was so excited because
he knew who I was.

40:41.539 --> 40:43.274 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And it wasn't that
great a haircut

40:43.274 --> 40:44.508 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
because he was so nervous.

40:44.508 --> 40:46.944 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
You know, his hands
were like that,

40:46.944 --> 40:51.615 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that was one experience
that will live

40:51.615 --> 40:54.518 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
with me because on that day,

40:54.518 --> 40:58.022 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
the Herndon Barbershop
cut a black man's hair.

40:58.022 --> 41:00.458 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Maybe it was the first
time in their history.

41:00.458 --> 41:02.493 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
So there were those things,

41:02.493 --> 41:05.596 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
there was no way that a
black person could get,

41:05.596 --> 41:09.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
or have a trip anywhere in the
country, not just the south,

41:09.733 --> 41:12.970 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
but the north as well
without running into stuff.

41:12.970 --> 41:14.872 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
When I was in the army
chorus and I'll show up here,

41:14.872 --> 41:16.474 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
but it was on the army chorus,

41:16.474 --> 41:19.977 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Captain Sam Leboda did
not take me to Dallas

41:19.977 --> 41:21.545 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
on one of the trips
because he knew

41:21.545 --> 41:23.280 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I wouldn't be able to
stay in the same hotel

41:23.280 --> 41:27.084 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
as my army buddies.
Too dangerous or, yeah, wow.

41:27.084 --> 41:28.519 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
- So yes,

41:28.519 --> 41:32.122 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that is the American
story that a whole lot

41:32.122 --> 41:34.992 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
of people today don't
wanna hear, you know,

41:34.992 --> 41:37.528 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
this whole argument against
critical race theory.

41:37.528 --> 41:39.997 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
What is that about? It's about
telling people the truth.

41:39.997 --> 41:42.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Well, I don't want my children
to grow up feeling guilty.

41:42.633 --> 41:43.934 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
Well, often your
children grow up

41:43.934 --> 41:45.402 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
feeling guilty after
they hear the truth.

41:45.402 --> 41:47.771 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And you haven't done
your job as a parent

41:47.771 --> 41:51.141 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
because it's your job to tell
'em that they're not guilty.

41:51.141 --> 41:52.610 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And you're telling the
truth because you don't

41:52.610 --> 41:54.979 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
want them to fall
into the same hole.

41:54.979 --> 41:56.547 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
- Well, thank you for sharing.

41:56.547 --> 41:58.782 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Thank you for sharing
that amazing story.

41:59.984 --> 42:01.585 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I wanna make sure
before I forget

42:01.585 --> 42:03.621 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that we're gonna save
some time at the very

42:03.621 --> 42:07.024 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
end soon for
questions and answers.

42:07.024 --> 42:09.860 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So there's a Q and A
button at the bottom

42:09.860 --> 42:13.197 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
of this Zoom screen,
not the chat button,

42:13.197 --> 42:16.734 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
but the Q and A, and please,
and everyone who's watching.

42:16.734 --> 42:18.469 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Please contribute. If
you have any questions

42:18.469 --> 42:20.971 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
for this incredible panel.

42:20.971 --> 42:22.840 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Let me introduce the next

42:23.908 --> 42:25.643 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and maybe most
special treat in store

42:25.643 --> 42:27.978 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
for everyone
attending this event.

42:27.978 --> 42:30.915 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
We're gonna take you inside
the recording studio,

42:30.915 --> 42:33.784 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
where Ms. Denyce
Graves was kind enough

42:33.784 --> 42:37.221 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
to record something for us in
tribute to Marian Anderson.

42:38.389 --> 42:41.058 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
It's my great honor to
share this very intimate

42:41.058 --> 42:44.094 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and moving performance
with you tonight. Enjoy.

42:46.196 --> 42:48.432 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
- Today, we are celebrating
the extraordinary

42:48.432 --> 42:52.236 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
life of the great lady
from Philadelphia,

42:52.236 --> 42:54.204 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
Miss Maryanne Anderson.

42:54.204 --> 42:57.741 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Brian Zeeger and I are
delighted to perform one

42:57.741 --> 43:01.211 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
of her great spirituals that
she's sang all over the world.

43:01.211 --> 43:05.449 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
It's called "Poor Me"
arranged by Nathaniel Debt.

43:10.387 --> 43:12.890 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
(piano plays)

43:26.670 --> 43:31.675 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
♪ Sometimes I'm up ♪

43:32.443 --> 43:36.880 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
♪ Sometimes I'm down ♪

43:39.216 --> 43:44.221 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
♪ Trouble will bury me down ♪

43:47.725 --> 43:52.730 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
♪ Yet still my soul feels ♪

43:53.530 --> 43:58.535 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
♪ heavenly bowned ♪

44:00.337 --> 44:05.275 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
♪ Trouble will bury me down ♪

44:08.278 --> 44:12.116 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
♪ Oh breatheren ♪

44:12.116 --> 44:16.920 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
♪ Poor me ♪

44:16.920 --> 44:21.925 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
♪ Poor me ♪

44:22.826 --> 44:26.030 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
♪ Trouble will bury me down ♪

44:32.770 --> 44:37.641 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
♪ Poor me ♪

44:37.641 --> 44:42.646 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
♪ Poor me ♪

44:46.417 --> 44:50.087 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
♪ Trouble will bury me down ♪

44:56.994 --> 44:59.496 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
(piano plays)

45:08.839 --> 45:12.910 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
♪ Although you see me ♪

45:12.910 --> 45:17.047 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
♪ Going along so ♪

45:17.047 --> 45:22.052 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
♪ Trouble will bury me down ♪

45:26.090 --> 45:31.095 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
♪ I've had my trails ♪

45:31.729 --> 45:36.366 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
♪ Here behold ♪

45:37.267 --> 45:41.605 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
♪ Trouble will bury me down ♪

45:43.774 --> 45:47.878 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
♪ Oh breatheren ♪

45:47.878 --> 45:52.883 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
♪ Poor me ♪

45:53.517 --> 45:58.322 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
♪ Poor me ♪

45:59.223 --> 46:02.392 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
♪ Trouble will bury me down ♪

46:09.500 --> 46:14.505 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
♪ Poor me ♪

46:15.139 --> 46:19.810 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
♪ Poor me ♪

46:22.379 --> 46:26.049 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
♪ Trouble will bury me down ♪

46:32.556 --> 46:37.561 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
♪ Poor me ♪

46:38.195 --> 46:40.364 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
♪ Poor me ♪

46:49.239 --> 46:52.976 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
♪ Trouble will bury me down ♪

47:10.527 --> 47:14.898 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- So what you need
to know is that song

47:14.898 --> 47:17.668 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
was given to me by Dr. Shirley

47:19.236 --> 47:22.206 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and for so many
years, for years,

47:23.640 --> 47:26.310 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
when I would run into Dr.
Shirley, he'd say, you know,

47:26.310 --> 47:29.012 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
there's a song that
Marian Anderson sang

47:29.012 --> 47:31.615 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
that you should sing, for years.

47:31.615 --> 47:33.917 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And then he sent it to me.

47:35.352 --> 47:38.889 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And it's just amazing that
we're here this evening

47:40.290 --> 47:43.627 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and that I sang that song,
but I have it because of him.

47:45.162 --> 47:46.697 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50%
- Wow.

47:46.697 --> 47:50.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
- And I have to say, first
of all, thank you, Denyce.

47:51.435 --> 47:53.971 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Just absolutely wonderful.

47:53.971 --> 47:57.241 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I will also say
that years later,

47:57.241 --> 48:02.112 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
when I interview Dr. Shirley
for this documentary,

48:02.112 --> 48:04.815 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
that song had so touched me that

48:04.815 --> 48:06.850 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
I would start off the interviews

48:06.850 --> 48:10.487 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
by playing it and then
taping the reactions

48:10.487 --> 48:12.623 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
of the person who
was being interviewed

48:12.623 --> 48:15.559 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
their face as I played it.

48:15.559 --> 48:18.262 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And when I played
it for Dr. Shirley,

48:18.262 --> 48:22.065 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
he said that it was his
favorite Marian Anderson song,

48:22.065 --> 48:23.967 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
and it was mine.

48:23.967 --> 48:26.003 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And I think the reason that that

48:26.003 --> 48:31.008 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
comes full circle is the
idea that the spiritual is,

48:33.610 --> 48:38.215 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
it encompasses the African
American experience.

48:38.215 --> 48:41.852 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And I hope I'm not jumping
ahead here, Michael,

48:41.852 --> 48:46.857 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
but to say that, that
spiritual and the spirituals

48:47.991 --> 48:50.160 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and Dr. Shirley
taught me this too.

48:50.160 --> 48:52.729 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
If you take yourself
back in the time period

48:52.729 --> 48:54.665 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
of Marian Anderson,

48:54.665 --> 48:57.901 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that is a spiritual
classically arranged,

48:57.901 --> 49:00.137 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
maybe it was sang
in the black church,

49:00.137 --> 49:02.606 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
maybe not exactly like that,

49:02.606 --> 49:05.242 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but because it was
classically arranged,

49:05.242 --> 49:08.445 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
it then went to audiences
that would not hear

49:08.445 --> 49:11.315 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
spirituals on any
kind of normal basis.

49:11.315 --> 49:15.018 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And even though she came after
the fist Jubilee singers,

49:15.018 --> 49:16.753 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
and after Roland Hayes,

49:16.753 --> 49:19.289 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
the places that she
went to in the world,

49:19.289 --> 49:22.859 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that song connected
her to the audience.

49:22.859 --> 49:26.363 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And it also connected
the black experience

49:26.363 --> 49:28.265 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
that was happening in America

49:28.265 --> 49:30.867 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to a European
audience who would not

49:30.867 --> 49:34.004 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
have felt it or known
it the same way.

49:34.004 --> 49:36.139 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And it opened doors for her.

49:36.139 --> 49:37.808 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50%
- Wow.

49:37.808 --> 49:39.576 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
- May I say this?

49:40.744 --> 49:44.147 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
The spiritual, when people look

49:44.147 --> 49:48.952 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
at it and peel off
the skin of those

49:48.952 --> 49:53.890 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
who sing it, they
realize they've always,

49:53.890 --> 49:58.795 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
they themselves have had
reason to sing and to speak.

49:58.795 --> 50:03.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And to say these, to give
voice to these sentiments,

50:03.600 --> 50:07.571 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
because in the final analysis,
there's not a different,

50:07.571 --> 50:08.672 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
we're not different races.

50:08.672 --> 50:10.140 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
We are human.

50:10.140 --> 50:14.044 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
There's one race and it's
human, different ethnicities,

50:14.044 --> 50:18.181 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but one race, if we
were a different race,

50:18.181 --> 50:19.816 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
you're head would be protruding

50:19.816 --> 50:21.618 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
from a different part
of your body than mine,

50:21.618 --> 50:23.220 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
protrudes from mine.

50:23.220 --> 50:27.891 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
We are all human beings
feeling the same pain,

50:27.891 --> 50:30.260 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
the same joy, the same elation,

50:30.260 --> 50:33.964 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
the same sadness may be
triggered by slightly different

50:33.964 --> 50:37.067 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
things, but we are human.

50:37.067 --> 50:42.039 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And that peace, that
spiritual says it all

50:42.806 --> 50:43.907 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
in such a powerful way.

50:43.907 --> 50:47.110 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
That, I mean, it's hard for me

50:47.110 --> 50:49.379 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
to even speak after hearing it.

50:50.614 --> 50:52.682 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- Well, I wanna thank
everyone on the panel

50:52.682 --> 50:54.684 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
for your thoughts and comments.

50:54.684 --> 50:58.655 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I wanna open up the
question and answer,

50:59.856 --> 51:01.992 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and I wanna start
with a question

51:01.992 --> 51:04.661 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
from Damon for Rita,

51:04.661 --> 51:06.163 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
which is for years,

51:06.163 --> 51:07.998 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
many of us were
under the impression

51:07.998 --> 51:10.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Ms. Anderson
married a white man.

51:10.233 --> 51:12.402 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
However, in later years
I heard her husband

51:12.402 --> 51:15.338 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
was a light-skinned black
man, which story is true?

51:15.338 --> 51:16.940 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Would you speak to that Rita?

51:16.940 --> 51:17.774 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50%
- Yes.

51:17.774 --> 51:19.810 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
Orpheus King Fisher

51:19.810 --> 51:23.847 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
as he was known was an
African American man.

51:25.515 --> 51:30.520 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
He lived in Philadelphia, moved
to New York at some point,

51:31.855 --> 51:35.892 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but he was when I wanna
say African American,

51:36.993 --> 51:41.098 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I don't wanna
misquote the island

51:43.400 --> 51:46.136 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that one of his
parents were from,

51:46.136 --> 51:49.239 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
he lost his mother
early in life.

51:49.239 --> 51:54.211 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
He was a black man and
many people think that,

51:55.412 --> 51:58.281 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but he could pass.
And when I say pass,

51:58.281 --> 52:01.284 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I don't mean that
he tried to pass.

52:01.284 --> 52:04.621 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Passing, it's a construct that

52:04.621 --> 52:06.656 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
we don't understand
in this society.

52:06.656 --> 52:09.159 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So if you are that light
and you're standing

52:09.159 --> 52:13.063 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
somewhere and someone mistakes
you for a white person,

52:13.063 --> 52:16.199 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
you didn't pass on
purpose. You were there.

52:16.199 --> 52:19.636 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And therefore, this
is how you were seen.

52:19.636 --> 52:23.507 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So sometimes that was
used to his advantage.

52:23.507 --> 52:27.544 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Sometimes he may have used
it, but he was a black man.

52:30.580 --> 52:32.015 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
- Thank you.

52:32.015 --> 52:34.851 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Another question. What
year was Ms. Anderson born?

52:35.952 --> 52:37.521 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50%
- 1897.

52:38.655 --> 52:42.292 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Now it is true
that she sometimes

52:42.292 --> 52:45.795 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
augmented her birthdate
by about five years,

52:45.795 --> 52:49.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but she had the blessing
of looking so young

52:49.533 --> 52:52.502 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that she could do that
and to enter something,

52:52.502 --> 52:55.205 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
she might have
chosen to do that,

52:55.205 --> 52:59.843 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but she was born in,
1897 one year after

52:59.843 --> 53:02.746 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
separate but equal
Plessy versus Ferguson.

53:04.181 --> 53:05.682 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- And I'd just
like to add to that

53:05.682 --> 53:07.250 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and say that my
voice teacher told me

53:07.250 --> 53:09.886 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
early on when I was
an undergraduate,

53:09.886 --> 53:12.856 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
she said, Denyce,
start lying now,

53:13.890 --> 53:15.892 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
you know, just start it now.

53:15.892 --> 53:17.994 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
That was before Google
and all that stuff.

53:20.397 --> 53:23.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
- Another question that I'll
put to everyone, but Rita,

53:23.433 --> 53:25.802 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
you can start visa v,
Marian Anderson is,

53:25.802 --> 53:27.804 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
did she suffer
from stage fright?

53:27.804 --> 53:31.007 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I'm curious about
George and Denyce

53:31.007 --> 53:32.175 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
in terms of your own career.

53:32.175 --> 53:33.410 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Is there any moment and Denyce,

53:33.410 --> 53:36.213 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
you spoke to that
important 9/11 concert,

53:36.213 --> 53:40.784 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
but Rita, do you think Marian
Anderson was ever anxious

53:40.784 --> 53:41.785 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
about performing?

53:43.453 --> 53:46.723 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
- I'm gonna say this and
I have no real right to,

53:46.723 --> 53:51.728 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
I think that most singers are
concerned about the audience

53:52.929 --> 53:56.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that they're going to go
forward to sell a song.

53:56.533 --> 53:59.669 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
That's why so many
singers or great actresses

53:59.669 --> 54:03.273 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and actors is because
you must sell that song,

54:03.273 --> 54:05.375 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but you must sell
it to that audience.

54:05.375 --> 54:07.177 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And when that curtain opens,

54:07.177 --> 54:09.813 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
you don't necessarily
know who's there.

54:09.813 --> 54:14.818 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I think there's
some emotion about that.

54:16.253 --> 54:19.723 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And in her 1939 concert, you
can see this in the film.

54:19.723 --> 54:21.291 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
And she says this,

54:21.291 --> 54:24.894 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
she didn't expect that
many people to be there.

54:24.894 --> 54:27.597 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And for a moment
she was overcome.

54:27.597 --> 54:31.334 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And then she closed
her eyes and she sang.

54:31.334 --> 54:34.671 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I'm sure in Finland
where they'd not seen

54:34.671 --> 54:36.439 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
many black people, some of them

54:36.439 --> 54:40.310 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
never haven't seen black
people, but she kept going.

54:40.310 --> 54:42.746 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
So if she had any stage fright,

54:42.746 --> 54:45.448 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
she certainly got
over it very quickly

54:45.448 --> 54:48.018 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
once she was called to the task.

54:48.018 --> 54:51.121 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
But I think it's
more of a concern

54:51.121 --> 54:53.423 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
about that audience and doing

54:53.423 --> 54:56.726 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
what you want to do and
what you want to give,

54:56.726 --> 55:01.665 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
reading them and working with
them to get that we going.

55:02.399 --> 55:04.200 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
When you begin to sing.

55:07.237 --> 55:10.573 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
- Any thoughts on stagefright
from George or Denyce?

55:12.008 --> 55:16.546 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
- Well, I would not want
to approach a performance

55:17.914 --> 55:22.485 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
without feeling the
energy that gets me going.

55:23.653 --> 55:26.890 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And without that,
there's the concern.

55:26.890 --> 55:29.659 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Yes, I wanna do the
best I can possibly do.

55:29.659 --> 55:31.528 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
There've been some
times when I've been,

55:31.528 --> 55:33.730 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
oh boy, but then
I've got to come

55:33.730 --> 55:36.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
to a point where I commit myself

55:36.933 --> 55:39.636 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to delivering the
message of the text

55:39.636 --> 55:42.372 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
in the song and
living the character

55:42.372 --> 55:44.841 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that I'm portraying,
if it's a recital,

55:44.841 --> 55:46.242 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
that character changes.

55:46.242 --> 55:49.212 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
So I've gotta find that
character in my own expression.

55:49.212 --> 55:51.948 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So I've got to go
there and not worry

55:51.948 --> 55:54.017 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
about trying to please
who's out there,

55:54.017 --> 55:55.985 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
knowing that if I go there,

55:57.120 --> 56:00.457 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
then I'm going to touch
people in the manner

56:00.457 --> 56:01.991 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
that I want to touch them.

56:01.991 --> 56:03.560 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So I wouldn't wanna
go out on stage

56:03.560 --> 56:05.962 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
without feeling that
excitement, that,

56:05.962 --> 56:08.365 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
because if I didn't feel
that then the performance

56:08.365 --> 56:09.899 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
would be as flat as a pancake.

56:12.936 --> 56:14.170 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
- Denyce, anything to add,

56:14.170 --> 56:16.706 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
or should I move on
to next question?

56:16.706 --> 56:19.943 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I spoke earlier
about the performance

56:19.943 --> 56:22.912 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
that I sang at the Washington
National Cathedral.

56:22.912 --> 56:24.147 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
And during that time

56:24.147 --> 56:26.883 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
during President W.
Bush's administration,

56:26.883 --> 56:29.252 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I was appointed
cultural ambassador

56:30.387 --> 56:32.722 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to the United States
and they sent me

56:32.722 --> 56:36.059 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and lots of other
magnificent artists all over

56:36.059 --> 56:41.064 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
the world to sort of dispel

56:42.265 --> 56:45.602 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
any stereotypes about
Americans in general.

56:45.602 --> 56:47.704 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And there was a once a concert

56:47.704 --> 56:51.040 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
with Yo-Yo Ma and
sometimes before concerts,

56:51.040 --> 56:52.308 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
the presenter likes to go out

56:52.308 --> 56:54.611 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and make announcements
and he was in the wings

56:54.611 --> 56:56.179 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and he kept saying,
can I go on, you know,

56:56.179 --> 56:58.181 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
can I go on, can I
go on and they'd say,

56:58.181 --> 56:59.516 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
wait, you know, Mr. And Mrs

56:59.516 --> 57:00.917 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
so and so need to
be acknowledged.

57:00.917 --> 57:02.252 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
And he said,

57:02.252 --> 57:04.988 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I'm always so nervous
until I get out there.

57:04.988 --> 57:08.892 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I would echo
that I'm not a person

57:08.892 --> 57:13.797 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
who would think that I
would've found myself

57:13.797 --> 57:15.565 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
on the operatic stage.

57:15.565 --> 57:19.235 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I was a incredibly shy
kid, very, very awkward.

57:19.235 --> 57:23.440 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And so I would say, I'm not
paralyzed before going on stage,

57:23.440 --> 57:25.608 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
but I'm incredibly
nervous and I'm very,

57:25.608 --> 57:29.212 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
very nervous and excited
until I start singing.

57:29.212 --> 57:30.413 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
And then I relax.

57:31.848 --> 57:34.150 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
- Can I add that? You just
made me think of something.

57:34.150 --> 57:36.352 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
The last time I sang
with Birgit Nilsson

57:36.352 --> 57:39.622 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
was a Salome concert performance

57:39.622 --> 57:42.959 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
with the Chicago
Symphony and Georg Solti.

57:42.959 --> 57:45.929 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And I'd sung Un'aura many times

57:45.929 --> 57:49.232 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
with her at the Met
and this amazing woman

57:49.232 --> 57:51.434 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
who had a voice that
just blew the walls

57:51.434 --> 57:53.369 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
out and drown out the orchestra.

57:53.369 --> 57:54.804 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So I went back to
her dressing room

57:54.804 --> 57:57.740 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
before the performance
and she was standing

57:57.740 --> 57:59.476 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
there all by herself like this.

57:59.476 --> 58:01.277 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And as I approached her, I was
gonna kiss her on the cheek.

58:01.277 --> 58:05.114 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
As I approached, she
said, oh, I am so nervous.

58:05.114 --> 58:08.051 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Thought, you are nervous.

58:08.051 --> 58:10.553 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
You have peeled the
paint at the Metropolitan

58:10.553 --> 58:13.556 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Opera in this row.
You're nervous.

58:13.556 --> 58:15.091 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And she went out and
she blew the walls

58:15.091 --> 58:17.293 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
out of the hall. I
mean with no big deal.

58:17.293 --> 58:20.430 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
So that is there.

58:20.430 --> 58:24.267 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
It's there because
you want to inhabit

58:24.267 --> 58:27.504 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
that role of whatever it is
you're doing to the fullest.

58:27.504 --> 58:28.738 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
And you don't want,

58:28.738 --> 58:30.340 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
you may have had a
rough day, you know,

58:30.340 --> 58:32.408 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
you might have gotten a
ticket on the way to the...

58:32.408 --> 58:34.210 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
You can't let that
stuff get in the way

58:34.210 --> 58:36.880 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
of focusing your nervous energy

58:36.880 --> 58:40.350 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
so that it becomes
performance, energy, so.

58:40.350 --> 58:41.851 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
- Uncle Carelli was the same.

58:43.019 --> 58:43.920 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
- Oh, yeah.

58:45.288 --> 58:49.459 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
I covered Carelli and I
remember for Romeo and Juliet,

58:49.459 --> 58:51.928 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
he was so nervous.

58:53.129 --> 58:56.332 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
First performance, he
cracked an interpolated

58:56.332 --> 58:59.402 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
high C at the end
of the fight scene.

58:59.402 --> 59:01.704 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I was in the house,
was had to cover him.

59:01.704 --> 59:02.972 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And I was learning some music

59:02.972 --> 59:04.240 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
'cause I was going
ready to take off

59:04.240 --> 59:06.876 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to go on a concert tour
after the recital tour.

59:06.876 --> 59:09.712 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And at 10:30, the door
to the dressing room

59:09.712 --> 59:10.914 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
where I was working opened

59:10.914 --> 59:12.148 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
and Rudolph being stuck his head

59:12.148 --> 59:14.284 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
and said, well, you're on.

59:14.284 --> 59:15.485 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
- Oh my God.

59:15.485 --> 59:16.419 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50%
- What?

59:16.419 --> 59:18.187 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
He said, yes, he just canceled.

59:18.187 --> 59:19.122 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
- Oh my God.

59:19.122 --> 59:20.790 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
- So I had to put on the costume

59:20.790 --> 59:22.325 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
and go out and finish the opera.

59:22.325 --> 59:25.261 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Now you can Franco Corelli
over six feet, tall,

59:25.261 --> 59:27.297 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
handsome, and here comes
George Shirley, you know,

59:27.297 --> 59:29.065 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
I mean five foot nine,

59:29.065 --> 59:30.567 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60%
but
- handsome

59:30.567 --> 59:33.336 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
It worked and I had
to go out and do it.

59:33.336 --> 59:35.405 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
But he was a very
nervous man in part,

59:35.405 --> 59:37.106 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I think, because the
Met kept insisting

59:37.106 --> 59:39.208 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
that he sing in French
and most Italian singers

59:39.208 --> 59:41.244 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
don't sing in
anything but Italian.

59:41.244 --> 59:44.280 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
So it sort of didn't
work to keep him in line.

59:44.280 --> 59:45.214 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60%
And we did.

59:45.214 --> 59:48.184 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And we did a benefit performance

59:48.184 --> 59:51.454 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
at the one night and he
sang a new Paltan song,

59:51.454 --> 59:52.755 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
sang it beautifully.

59:52.755 --> 59:54.290 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I was in the wings
getting ready to go out.

59:54.290 --> 59:55.491 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And I said, bravo Franco.

59:55.491 --> 59:56.492 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
He said, (speaking
in foreign language).

59:59.429 --> 01:00:04.434 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
And you know, what a tragedy
in such a fantastic voice

01:00:05.802 --> 01:00:08.705 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
and presence, but the nerves
got the better of him.

01:00:08.705 --> 01:00:11.007 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So the nerves are
there without them.

01:00:11.007 --> 01:00:12.475 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
There's no performance,

01:00:12.475 --> 01:00:14.110 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
but if they get to the point
where they rule the day,

01:00:14.110 --> 01:00:15.511 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
then that's the problem.

01:00:16.879 --> 01:00:21.517 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
- Well, in a nice full
circle to the 1939 concert,

01:00:22.685 --> 01:00:24.153 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
here's a question
really for Rita.

01:00:24.153 --> 01:00:27.557 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Did Ms. Anderson sing
at the 1963 March

01:00:27.557 --> 01:00:29.826 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
on Washington at
the Lincoln Memorial

01:00:29.826 --> 01:00:32.795 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
where Dr. King delivered
his "I have a dream speech".

01:00:32.795 --> 01:00:35.732 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
If so, do you know
what she sang?.

01:00:35.732 --> 01:00:40.303 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
- She sang, "He's got the
whole world in his hands".

01:00:40.303 --> 01:00:44.407 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And I think that
it was near the end

01:00:46.376 --> 01:00:50.780 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
of her singing career
'cause to 1963.

01:00:50.780 --> 01:00:53.383 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
And she made her way
through the crowd.

01:00:54.550 --> 01:00:57.020 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
It was a crowd that
wasn't expected.

01:00:57.020 --> 01:01:00.423 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
So she was late and
she was not there

01:01:00.423 --> 01:01:03.326 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
to open the concert as
she was supposed to.

01:01:03.326 --> 01:01:06.763 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Mahalia Jackson did
that and did quite

01:01:06.763 --> 01:01:11.334 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
an awesome job of it. But
by the time she got there,

01:01:11.334 --> 01:01:13.102 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
she still was able to sing.

01:01:13.102 --> 01:01:16.239 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
"He's got the whole
world in his hands".

01:01:16.239 --> 01:01:17.440 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50%
- Wow.

01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:21.844 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Well, unfortunately this
tempest is fugiting.

01:01:21.844 --> 01:01:24.981 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
We are out of time tonight,
but this was a great pleasure.

01:01:24.981 --> 01:01:27.617 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
And I wanna thank Rita Coburn,

01:01:27.617 --> 01:01:30.586 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Denyce Graves and George
Shirley for joining us tonight.

01:01:30.586 --> 01:01:34.757 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Also a deep bow of gratitude
for Robert F. Smith,

01:01:34.757 --> 01:01:36.826 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Mercedes Bass, Carnegie Hall,

01:01:36.826 --> 01:01:38.428 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
and The Better Angel Society

01:01:38.428 --> 01:01:40.830 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
for making this event a reality.

01:01:40.830 --> 01:01:43.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
On behalf of American
Masters channel 13

01:01:43.900 --> 01:01:45.668 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70%
and the WNET Group.

01:01:45.668 --> 01:01:47.470 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
I'd like to thank
our funders again

01:01:47.470 --> 01:01:49.272 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
and thank you to
all of our guests

01:01:49.272 --> 01:01:50.707 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
for the evening for joining .

01:01:50.707 --> 01:01:54.811 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
Tomorrow night, February
8th, at 9:00 pm on PBS.

01:01:54.811 --> 01:01:58.548 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
Please watch Marian Anderson
Program on American Masters.

01:01:58.548 --> 01:02:00.616 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80%
Thank you. And good night.