>>> HELLO, EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY".
HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP .
LIVING NEXT DOOR TO VLADIMIR PUTIN.
ESTONIA'S PRIME MINISTER TELLS ME ABOUT STARING DOWN THE KREMLIN AND CRUISING TO ELECTION VICTORY.
THEN, >> AMERICANS CAN REST ASSURED THAT OUR BANKING SYSTEM IS SAFE.
>> CLUBBING JOHN PENICK IN THE USA AFTER THE COLLAPSE OF A MAJOR BANK GIVES INVESTORS FLASHBACKS TO THE 2008 FINANCIAL CRISIS.
ECONOMIST BETSY STEVES ENJOYS ALONGSIDE JAMES JACOBI, DIRECTOR OF AGE OF EASY MONEY.
PLUS.
>>> EVERYTHING YOU TRUST , WHICH IS DANCING OR BOXING, BEGINS WITH A SET OF SMALL, AWKWARD STEPS.
>> HOW TO MASTER A CRAFT?
WRITER TELLS US THE TIPS AND TRICKS HE LEARNS FROM THE GREATS.
>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.
I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.
IT IS PAINFUL AND TOUGH AND IT'S WHERE UKRAINE'S FUTURE WILL BE DETERMINED.
SO SAYS PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY ABOUT THE BRUTAL FIGHTING IN THE EAST OF HIS COUNTRY.
HE PROMISED THAT WE NEED TO DESTROY THE ENEMY 'S MILITARY POWER AND WE WILL, BUT AS ANYONE CAN SEE, IT IS A VERY TOUGH SLOG.
RUSSIANS AND UKRAINIANS ARE ESSENTIALLY LOCKED IN A WAR OF ATTRITION , EACH SIDE RAPIDLY LOSING TROOPS.
SOMETHING RUSSIA HAS IN MUCH BIGGER SUPPLY.
EUROPE AND AMERICA ARE STILL PROMISING TO BACK KYIV FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES, BUT THERE ARE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER THEIR WEAPONS SHIPMENTS ARE TOO LATE, TOO LITTLE AND NOW THE LIKELY REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL HOPEFUL IN THE UNITED STATES, RON DESANTIS, IS MAKING USE BY SAYING GETTING INVOLVED IN UKRAINE IS ACTUALLY NOT IN AMERICA IT'S VITAL NATIONAL INTEREST.
CALLING IT A TERRITORIAL DISPUTE BETWEEN THE PARTIES, RATHER THAN THE FIGHT TO PROTECT FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY FROM TYRANNY.
NO ONE KNOWS THIS MORE THAN UKRAINE'S LOUDEST BACKERS, PUTIN 'S NEIGHBORS LIKE THE ESTONIAN PRIME MINISTER KAJA KALLAS.
INDEED, HER FIERCE SUPPORT OF UKRAINE HELPED SECURE AND OVERWHELMING REELECTION VICTORY JUST LAST WEEK.
WHEN SHE JOINED ME , SHE SOUNDED THE ALARM AGAINST ANY IDEA OF APPEASING PUTIN AMID WORRIES THAT STEADFAST HIGHLIGHT SUPPORTIVE KYIV MIGHT WAIVER THIS SECOND YEAR OF WAR.
PRIME MINISTER KAJA KALLAS, WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> SO THE WORLD REALLY DID WATCH PARTICULARLY IN THIS MOMENT OF UKRAINE AND NATO AND AN ALLIANCE , THE ELECTION IN YOUR COUNTRY, AND SEEMED TO BE READING A SIGH OF RELIEF.
YOU DID SCORE A DECISIVE VICTORY.
SO IS THAT IT?
JOB DONE OR WHAT NEXT?
>> WE HAVE A SYSTEM THAT IS IN FAVOR OF COALITION GOVERNMENT.
VICTORY, WE ALSO HAVE TO FORM A GOVERNMENT AND PUT TOGETHER A COALITION.
RIGHT NOW WE HAVE THE TALKS GOING ON AND OF COURSE EVERYBODY HAS VERY MANY IDEAS.
WE HAVE TO GET THE COMPROMISES TOGETHER, SO IT TAKES TIME.
>> YOU ARE KNOWN AS ONE OF THE STRONGEST, IF NOT THE STRONGEST VOICE IN SUPPORT OF HAVING TO BACK UKRAINE TO VICTORY.
YOUR COALITION , GOOD IT DEFINE WHAT YOU DO NEXT AS ESTONIA , REGARDING THIS CONTINUED SUPPORT?
>> WE ALREADY AGREED UPON UKRAINE AND EVERYTHING RELATED TO THAT.
WE SHARE WITH OUR NEW PARTNERS THE SAME VIEWS.
THAT WE SHOULD HELP UKRAINE AS LONG AS IT TAKES.
THAT WE SHOULD GIVE THEM MILITARY AID, BUT WE SHOULD ALSO TALK ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY AND SPECIAL TRIBUNAL ON THE INTERNATIONAL LEVEL.
WE SHOULD ALSO TALK ABOUT WHO'S SEEING THE DEFENSE INDUSTRY WHO , SO WE HAVE ENOUGH AMMUNITION TO SEND TO UKRAINE.
SO THEY CAN DEFEND THEMSELVES.
IN THAT REGARD, THE NEW GOVERNMENT, WE HOLD THE SAME LINE SO FAR.
>> LET ME TALK ABOUT THE LATEST REPORTS FROM THE FRONT LINE .
THERE IS A VERY ALARMING INTERVIEW AND REPORT FROM THE WASHINGTON POST ON THE EASTERN FRONT.
QUOTING A UKRAINIAN , I BELIEVE A LIEUTENANT OR A COLONEL .
BASICALLY SAYING THAT WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE.
WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH TRAINED TROOPS ANYMORE.
WE ARE LOSING OUR BEST PEOPLE.
WE ARE NOT GETTING ALL THAT'S BEEN PROMISED BY YOU ALL IN THE WEST IN TIME FOR RIGHT NOW.
HAVE YOU HEARD THIS?
AND HOW ALARMED DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?
>> THAT IS FRUSTRATING AND WE HAVE HEARD THAT AS WELL.
THAT'S WHY SOME WEEKS AGO, EUROPEAN LEVEL TO DO THIS , USE THIS SAME MECHANISM AS WE DID WITH THE VACCINES.
THAT WE PROVIDE THE FUNDS AND THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION WILL DIRECT THE PROCURE THE AMMUNITION.
SO THAT THE DEFENSE INDUSTRY COULD ALSO BOOST THEIR PRODUCTION.
WHAT IS THE PROBLEM IS THE MILITARY INDUSTRY IN RUSSIA IS WORKING AT THREE SHIFTS, WHERE'S THE DEFENSE INDUSTRY IN EUROPE HAS NOT BOOSTED ITS PRODUCTION.
AND THEY HAVE TO DO THAT.
IF YOU TALK TO THE DEFENSE INDUSTRY AS I HAVE DONE , THEY SAY THAT WE DON'T HAVE ORDERS.
ALTHOUGH EVERYBODY IS PLEDGING ON INCREASING THE DEFENSE EXPENDITURE AND SENDING ARMS AND AMMUNITION TO UKRAINE.
SO I WAS JUST THINKING HOW TO BOOST THAT AND GET THAT AMMUNITION AND THE EQUIPMENT TO UKRAINE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE THE PRICE GOES UP WITH EVERY DELAY.
>> WE'VE ALL BEEN HEARING ABOUT HOW MUCH FLAUNTED UKRAINE COUNTEROFFENSIVE.
FROM WHAT YOU KNOW, DO YOU BELIEVE THEY ARE IN A POSITION TO BE ABLE TO WAGE THAT, AND IF THEY DON'T, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE COURSE OF THIS WAR?
>> WE HAVE TO ALSO LOOK AT THE RUSSIAN SIDE AND THE RUSSIAN ARMY IS NOT HAPPY AT ALL AS WELL.
SO I THINK THERE ARE TWO SIDES.
ON ONE SIDE IS UKRAINE , AND WE HAVE TO HELP THEM AS MUCH AS WE CAN, AS FAST AS WE CAN.
BUT ON THE OTHER SIDE, THERE IS ALSO RUSSIA AND THE PARTS THERE.
HOW THE ARMY IS FEELING THERE AND THEY ARE NOT HAPPY EITHER WITH THEIR EQUIPMENT.
WITH THE WAYS THAT THEY ARE TREATED.
BUT DEFINITELY, IT IS CRITICAL THAT UKRAINE DOES NOT LOSE THEIR SPIRIT AND THE FORCE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.
I'VE HEARD YOU QUOTED AS SAYING THAT EVEN NOW, MANY IN EUROPE ARE STILL NOT THERE YET WHEN IT COMES TO UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU HAVE TO CONFRONT PUTIN, AS YOU VIEW IT.
IN YOUR FRONT-LINE STATE.
YOU SAID THAT YOU ARE CONCERNED THAT MAY BE SORT OF AN ATMOSPHERE OF APPEASEMENT IS SETTLING OVER THE ALLIANCE NOW.
IS THAT CORRECT?
IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT?
>> I AM WORRIED ABOUT THIS.
NOT ON THE LEADERS' LEVEL BUT I'M ALSO LEAVING THE MEDIA IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.
WHICH ARE ALLIED COUNTRIES.
AND I HEAR THE MOODS THAT ARE THERE.
AND THERE IS THE FATIGUE OF THE WAR .
THAT IS UNDERSTANDABLE.
THERE ARE WORRIES LIKE HIGH INFLATION AND OTHER DOMESTIC PROBLEMS KICKING IN EVERYWHERE.
IT IS A BIT COMING FROM HERE AND THERE THAT LET'S JUST DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS WAR.
BUT THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS STOPPING THIS WERE REALLY?
IF WE WERE TO SAY TO UKRAINE , SIT DOWN AND AGREE .
GIVE SOME TERRITORIES AWAY AND THEN WE HAVE PEACE AND WE CAN GO ON .
CONTINUING OUR BUSINESS AS USUAL .
THEN THE OUTCOME IS WE DON'T HAVE A PIECE THAT IS LASTING.
WE MIGHT HAVE A PIECE OR TRUCE FOR TWO YEARS OR FOUR YEARS, BUT THEN IT MAY CONTINUE IN A MUCH BROADER STATE AND THAT'S A THREAT TO THE EUROPEAN SECURITY ARCHITECTURE.
THE OTHER POSSIBILITY IS TO REALLY GIVE EVERYTHING TO UKRAINE SO THEY CAN DEFEND THEMSELVES.
THAT THEY CAN ALSO DEFEND THE U.N. CHARTER THAT SAYS THAT EVERY COUNTRY HAS THE RIGHT , SOVEREIGN RIGHT TO EXIST AND ALSO DEFEND ITSELF.
SO THAT WE WILL BE BY THIS AND BE REALLY UNITED BEHIND UKRAINE AND RUSSIA GETS THE MESSAGE THAT YOU CAN'T WIN THIS WAR.
THE WAR WILL STOP WHEN RUSSIA UNDERSTANDS THAT IT IS A MISTAKE AND THEY WILL BACK OFF, LIKE THEY DID WITH AFGHANISTAN, FOR EXAMPLE.
>> YES.
I'M SURE YOU AGREE WITH THE FOREIGN MINISTER FROM NEIGHBORING LITHUANIA WHO SPOKE TO ME FROM WASHINGTON.
HE WAS TRYING TO SAY THE SAME THING THAT YOU ARE SAYING TO SECRETARY OF STATE AND IN CONGRESS.
THIS IS WHAT HE SAID ABOUT RISING THOUGHTS ABOUT NEGOTIATIONS.
>> OF SOMEBODY SAYS THAT WE SHOULD BE NEGOTIATING WITH PUTIN AND I THINK HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THAT WITH THE IDEA OF A SPECIAL TRIBUNAL?
YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH.
YOU CANNOT HAVE SOMEBODY WHO'S ACTUALLY GUILTY FOR ACTIVE AGGRESSION , FOR ORDERING HIS GENERALS AND TROOPS TO COMMIT WAR CRIMES AND BE AT THE SAME OR SEIZING OF TERRITORIES.
YOU HAVE TO DECIDE.
>> OR COMMENTARY?
>> I AGREE.
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR THE ACCOUNTABILITY REALLY.
WHEN WE LOOK AT HOW WE CAN CUT THIS HISTORICAL CYCLE THAT RUSSIA WILL ATTACK ITS NEIGHBORS, THEN IT IS THE QUESTION OF ACCOUNTABILITY REALLY.
OF COURSE, WE ARE PUTTING TOGETHER THE TRIBUNALS TO PROCESS AND PROSECUTE THE CRIMES OF AGGRESSION AND THE WAR CRIMES, THEN IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU CAN'T SIT DOWN WITH THE CRIMINALS, THE WAR CRIMINALS OR THE CRIMINALS THAT HAVE REALLY PUT UP GENOCIDE AND THE ROLE OF AGGRESSION REALLY.
SO THIS IS TRUE.
BUT TO CUT THIS HISTORICAL CYCLE , ACCOUNTABILITY IS A KEY.
NOT THE TRIBUNAL WHERE WE LEAVE OUT PUTIN OR THE LEADERS OF RUSSIA , BUT ACTUALLY TRIBUNAL TO PROSECUTE THE CRIMES OF AGGRESSION WHICH IS A LEADERSHIP CRIME.
BECAUSE WITHOUT THIS LEADERSHIP CRIME, THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY WAR CRIMES EITHER.
WHEN WE LOOK AT THE HISTORY AGAIN, GERMANY, FOR EXAMPLE .
ONE OF THE EFFECTS OF THE NUREMBERG TRIBUNAL IS THE GERMAN PEOPLE GOT TO KNOW ABOUT THE CRIMES THAT WERE COMMITTED BY THE AND THE WHOLE WORLD, AS WELL CONDEMNED THE CRIMES OF THE .
IT WAS NEVER THE CASE FOR THE COMMUNIST CRIMES THAT WERE COMMITTED HERE OR IN UKRAINE BY THE RUSSIANS.
>> OF COURSE YOU TALK ABOUT THE HISTORIC AND ILLEGAL ANNEXATION OF PARTS OF ESTONIA BY THE SOVIET UNION WAY BACK WHEN.
I WANT TO AGAIN ASK YOU , FOREIGN MINISTER LANDSBERG US WAS IN THE UNITED STATES AND THIS WAS FLORIDA GOVERNOR RON DESANTIS ON FOX NEWS.
HE'S PROBABLY HEADING THOUGH SHE HASN'T DECLARED YET FOR A PRESIDENTIAL BID AND THIS IS WHAT HE IS SAYING.
WHILE THE U.S. HAS MANY VITAL NATIONAL INTERESTS , BECOMING FURTHER ENTANGLED IN A TERRITORIAL DISPUTE BETWEEN UKRAINE AND RUSSIA IS NOT ONE OF THEM.
HE HAS PREVIOUSLY CALLED ZELENSKYY AND ANTIHERO , AND YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE RIGHT WING OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
DOES THIS CONCERN YOU OR IS THAT JUST ELECTION EARRING?
>> OF COURSE IT CONCERNS US BECAUSE WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS THE RULES-BASED INTERNATIONAL ORDER.
WE HAVE AGREED , ALL THE COUNTRIES THAT ARE MEMBERS OF THE UNITED NATIONS, THERE IS U.N. CHARTER AND THE UNITED NATIONS WAS PUT TOGETHER IN ORDER TO HAVE PEACE IN THE WORLD.
IN THAT CHARTER, THERE ARE RULES THAT YOU CANNOT ATTACK ANOTHER COUNTRY AND IF YOU DO, THERE SHOULD BE A PUNISHMENT AS WELL.
IF YOU SAY , LET'S LOOK AWAY AND THIS IS NOTHING, THEN THE AGGRESSION REALLY PAYS OFF .
AND ALL THE AGGRESSORS OR WOULD BE AGGRESSORS IN THE WORLD ARE WATCHING VERY CAREFULLY AND TAKING NOTES , HOW WE DEAL WITH RUSSIA IN THIS CASE.
BECAUSE IF AGGRESSION PAYS OFF, THERE ARE NO LIMITS.
THAT IS ALSO THE THREAT TO INTERNATIONAL RULES-BASED ORDER BUT ALSO SECURITY.
BECAUSE WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT COMPLETELY DISCREDITING THE TOOL OF AGGRESSION AS A POLICY TOOL.
IT HAS TO HAVE A HIGHER PRICE THEN NOT TO ATTACK ANOTHER COUNTRY.
>> I'M REALLY INTERNALIZING WHAT YOU SAID.
YOU HAVE TO BREAK THE HISTORICAL CYCLE OF RUSSIAN INVASION AND AGGRESSION.
WHAT YOU'RE SAYING SEEMS TO BE PROVEN RIGHT BECAUSE RUSSIA IS STILL, EVEN NOW , TRYING TO WEAKEN DEMOCRACIES ON ITS BORDERS.
THIS PAST SUNDAY, POLICE IN MOLDOVA HAVE ARRESTED MEN WITH TIES TO RUSSIA WHO WERE TRYING TO WHIP UP ANTIGOVERNMENT SENTIMENT AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT OF THE PRO-EU PRESIDENT MAIA SANDY.
THIS IS WHAT THE WHITE HOUSE SAID.
AS MOLDOVA CONTINUES TO INTEGRATE WITH EUROPE, WE BELIEVE RUSSIA IS PURSUING OPTIONS TO WEAKEN THE MOLDOVAN GOVERNMENT , PROBABLY WITH THE EVENTUAL GOAL OF SEEING A MORE RUSSIAN FRIENDLY ADMINISTRATION IN THE CAPITAL .
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT AND IS AND THAT THE ANSWER TO RON DESANTIS?
>> YEAH, EXACTLY.
WHAT IS RUSSIA AFRAID OF?
IT'S DEMOCRACY EXPANDING.
RUSSIA IS NOT AFRAID THAT SOMEBODY IS ACTUALLY ATTACKING THEM MILITARILY.
I MEAN THEIR TERRITORY, OR TRYING TO GET A PIECE OF THEIR TERRITORY.
NO ONE HAS PLANS TO DO THAT AND NOBODY HAS SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THIS.
OF HIS DEMOCRACY.
BECAUSE IN DEMOCRACY, YOU ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR DECISIONS .
AND WHEN YOU START A WAR, YOU HAVE SOLDIERS ' MOTHERS ON THE STREET DEMONSTRATING AND YOU CAN'T DO THESE THINGS THE WAY IT'S DONE IN AUTOCRAT SEES.
THAT'S WHY RUSSIA AND THE KREMLIN ARE VERY MUCH INTERESTED IN THESE DEMOCRACY , EUROPEAN VALUES NOT GOING ANY WAY FURTHER BECAUSE THEN THEY MIGHT ALSO REACH RUSSIA .
AND THAT IS ALREADY A THREAT TO THE POWERS OF THE KREMLIN AND COULDN'T.
>> FINALLY THEN, IN TRYING TO GET IN AND TO THIS, DO YOU HAVE ANY FAITH IN PRESIDENT XI WHO WILL VISIT RUSSIA NEXT WEEK AND THEN TO TALK TO THE PRESIDENT BY REMOTE?
WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL BE THE OUTCOME?
>> I HOPE THAT CHINA WHO'S ALSO PART OF THE U.N., UNITED NATIONS AND HAS AGREED TO THE UNITED NATIONS CHARTER ALSO ACCEPTS AND RESPECTS THE PRINCIPLES OF THAT CHARTER , AND THAT IS THAT IN THIS WAR, THERE IS ONE AGGRESSOR AND ONE VICTIM.
ONE HAS NOT DONE ANYTHING TO CAUSE THIS REALLY.
SO IT CAN'T BE THAT IF YOU PREACH THE U.N. CHARTER, IF YOU ATTACK ANOTHER COUNTRY, YOU WALK AWAY FREE.
AND YOU WALK AWAY WITH ACTUALLY MORE TERRITORIES.
I THINK THIS IS ALSO IMPORTANT FOR CHINA THAT THEY ARE PART OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY AND ALSO RESPECTING THE RULE OF LAW , THE INTERNATIONAL RULES-BASED LAWYER THAT'S THERE IN THE WORLD.
SO I HOPE THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE.
>> PRIME MINISTER KAJA KALLAS.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THE STAKES ARE SUPER HIGH.
>>> TURNING ONTO ANOTHER CRISIS.
THE BANKING, THE HAS SHOT THE ENTIRE GLOBAL FINANCIAL SYSTEM IN THE UNITED STATES.
THE FULL IMPACT OF SILICON VALLEY BANK'S COLLAPSE IS YET TO BE SEEN AND PRESIDENT BIDEN IS WORKING OVERTIME TO ASSURE THE PUBLIC THE SYSTEM IS SAFE.
BUT FOR MANY, IS A WORRYING FLASHBACK TO THE 2008 FINANCIAL CRISIS.
HAVE INVESTORS AND GOVERNMENTS LEARNED NOTHING FROM THE MISTAKES OF THE PAST?
IT'S THE BASIS OF A NEW FRONTLINE DOCUMENTARY CALLED THE AGE OF EASY MONEY.
HERE'S A CLIP ON THE TRAILER.
>> ECONOMIC ALARMS ARE FLARING.
TRYING TO STOP INFLATION.
>> TO THOSE WHO POINT TO THE FED AND SAY YOU RAN IT TOO HOT, YOU SAY WHAT?
>> IN HINDSIGHT, I WISH WE AT TITAN SOONER.
>> INTEREST RATES WILL BRING DOWN INFLATION AND BRING SOMETHING TO HOUSEHOLDS.
>> WE ARE HEADING INTO WHAT WILL BE A NEW ECONOMIC ERA.
>> THE FILMS DIRECTOR JAMES WITH BETSY STEVENSON.
WELCOME BOTH OF YOU TO THE PROGRAM.
I FIRST WANT TO ASK YOU, BETSY, TO GIVE US AN ECONOMIC REALITY CHECK.
AS I SAID, PEOPLE ARE HAVING FLASHBACKS TO 2008.
IS AT THE SAME?
COULD IT HAVE THE SAME FALLOUT AND IMPACT?
>> I DON'T THINK IT'S THE SAME.
WHEN WE LOOK AT 2008, WE SAW A FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM THAT WAS ENTRENCHED THROUGH THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY .
THAT'S NOT WHAT WE SAW HERE.
I THINK THAT WE ARE SEEING HERE , TO GIVE US FLASHBACKS MAY BE TO THE SAVINGS AND LOAN CRISIS BECAUSE WE HAVE SOMETHING WHERE WE DEREGULATED .
WHEN WE DEREGULATED, WE SAW EXCESSIVE RISK-TAKING .
WITH EXCESSIVE RISK-TAKING, COMES AN INCREASED THREAT OF FAILURE .
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE SAW IN SV BANK.
THERE WAS MISMANAGEMENT, EXCESSIVE RISK-TAKING .
FINALLY, THEIR CLIENTS GOT WIND OF IT AND AS SOON AS THE CLIENTS GET WIND OF IT, YOU HAVE A GOOD OLD- FASHIONED BANK RUN ON YOUR HANDS.
WE SAW SOMETHING SIMILAR HAPPEN WITH SIGNATURE.
A LITTLE DIFFERENT PROBLEM.
THEY WERE OVEREXTENDED IN CRYPTO, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S THE SAME REALM .
SORT OF EXCESSIVE RISK-TAKING.
I THINK WE CAN REALLY LAY THE BLAME FOR THAT ON DEREGULATION, BUT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE SEEN THAT KIND OF EXCESSIVE RISK- TAKING PERMEATE A SMALLER AND MIDSIZED BANKS THAT WERE DEREGULATED IN 2018 .
SO I DON'T THINK THIS IS A SYSTEMIC PROBLEM AND I THINK WE HAVE SEEN THE FED , FDIC AND TREASURY STEP IN AND SAY, DON'T WORRY ABOUT YOUR DEPOSITS.
WE ARE GOING TO COVER THEM.
>> YOU SAID GOOD OLD-FASHIONED RUN ON THE BANKS.
SO YOU THINK THAT A.K.A.
PANIC HAS BEEN STANCHED AND WE WON'T SEE IT INFECT OTHER BANKS?
>> I THINK THERE'S TWO THINGS WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT.
SOLVENCY CRISIS WHERE THE BANK IS REALLY MESSED UP AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY .
THEN WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT A LIQUIDITY CRISIS WHICH IS, CAN THEY PRODUCE THE CASH PEOPLE ONE ON HAND?
AND ARE PEOPLE GOING TO PANIC AND TRY TO GET THEIR CASH?
I THINK THE EFFORTS THAT WE HAVE SEEN FROM THE FEDERAL RESERVE, FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN, FROM THE FDIC, FROM TREASURY MEANS PEOPLE SHOULDN'T PANIC .
THEY CAN GET THEIR MONEY AND IF THEY GO TO THE BANK AND THE BANK DOESN'T HAVE THE LIQUIDITY, IT CAN TURN TO THE FED WHICH HAS SET UP NEW MEASURES FOR BANKS TO BE ABLE TO BORROW FROM THE FED.
I THINK I LIQUIDITY PROBLEMS ARE CONTAINED .
THEN THE FALLOUT WILL BE WHETHER THERE ARE BROAD- BASED SOLVENCY PROBLEMS IN THE BANKING SYSTEM.
I THINK THERE, IT'S UNLIKELY THAT WE HAVE BROAD-BASED SOLVENCY PROBLEMS THAT ARE ANYWHERE NEAR THE SCOPE OF WHAT WE SAW IN 2008.
>> JAMES JACOBY, YOUR DOCUMENTARY , THERE COULDN'T BE A BETTER TIME FOR YOU TO PUT THIS OUT INTO THE PUBLIC SPHERE.
TO YOU, FROM ALL THE REPORTING YOU DID IN THIS DOCUMENTARY, ARE YOU SURPRISED OR DID YOU THINK THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD ACTUALLY HAPPEN?
AGAIN.
>> NO, NOT SURPRISED.
I THINK IN THE PEOPLE I'M SPEAKING TO , THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT CERTAINLY HOW MUCH RISK- TAKING WAS HAPPENING IN THE BANKING SYSTEM.
THE BROADER FINANCIAL SYSTEM DURING WHAT WE CALL THE AGE OF EASY MONEY.
BASICALLY SINCE THE 2008 CRISIS.
THERE CERTAINLY A LOT MORE REQUIREMENTS ON BANKS AND REGULATIONS AND THERE'S BEEN SOME DEREGULATION AND SOME GREATER RISK-TAKING AS A RESULT OF IT.
BUT AS INTEREST RATES RISE , AND THEY ARE NOW BECAUSE THE FED HAS BEEN TRYING TO FIGHT THE INFLATION PROBLEM.
THEN A LOT OF THE ASSETS THAT BANKS HOLD AND FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS HOLD, THEIR VALUES FALL.
THE PRICES OF THOSE ASSETS FALL.
SO THERE'S CONCERN OUT THERE ABOUT WHAT BANKS HAVE ON THEIR BALANCE SHEETS AND OTHER FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS THAT AREN'T EVEN REGULATED.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT EASY MONEY .
I'LL GET BOTH OF YOU TO COMMENT ON THIS.
I THINK YOU'RE SAYING THAT THIS IS THE NAME GIVEN TO HOW THE GOVERNMENT TRIED TO BASICALLY REVIVE THE ECONOMY.
YOU HAVE A QUOTE , AMONGST MANY OF YOUR QUOTES AND INTERVIEWS WITH RONNA WHO IS A WELL-KNOWN ACADEMIC ECONOMIC ANALYST.
SHE WORKS FOR DIFFERENT MEDIAS.
SHE SAYS ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT THE AGE OF EASY MONEY THAT'S SO DIABOLICAL IS THAT WE ARE ALL IN IT .
WE ARE ALL PART OF THIS FAUSTIAN BARGAIN OF PRETENDING THAT THERE'S SOMETHING WONDERFUL HAPPENING IN THE REAL ECONOMY , WHEN REALLY IT'S JUST WALL STREET GOING UP.
SO PUT THAT INTO CONTEXT BECAUSE I REMEMBER DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THEY WERE ALWAYS THRILLED WHEN THE DOW JONES WENT UP, AS IF THAT WAS THE ACTUAL ECONOMY THAT ORDINARY PEOPLE TOOK HEART IN.
>> YEAH, I THINK WHAT RON IS REFERRING TO THEIR IS BASICALLY THE IDEA THAT THE FED HAD THESE WELL-INTENTIONED POLICIES TO KEEP SHORT-TERM AND LONG-TERM INTEREST RATES LOW.
TO BASICALLY MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS CHEAP CREDIT IN THE ECONOMY AND THE HOPE WAS THAT THE ECONOMY WOULD GROW AS A RESULT OF THAT.
FOR MANY, MANY YEARS WE HAVE SLUGGISH ECONOMIC GROWTH, THAT WE SAW FINANCIAL MARKETS REALLY TAKE OFF AND THE PRICE OF FINANCIAL ASSETS AND OTHER TYPES OF ASSETS REALLY TAKE OFF.
I THINK WHAT RONNA IS SAYING IS THE FAUSTIAN BARGAIN IS THAT WE HAVE 401(K) PLANS OR PENSION PLANS, AND WE WANT TO SEE THOSE ASSETS THAT THEY ARE INVESTED IT GO UP.
YET , AT THE SAME TIME, WHAT SHE'S BRINGING ATTENTION TO IS THIS LARGER PRINT OF THE FINANCIAL IS ASIAN OF OUR ECONOMY.
THAT THIS WAS ALSO FUELING A GREATER DIVIDE BETWEEN MAINSTREAM AND WALL STREET.
BETSY , STEVENSON, YOU'VE BEEN AMONG YOUR MANY POSITIONS, DEPARTMENT OF LABOR SO YOU GET THE WHOLE GOVERNMENT PART OF THIS.
YOU TALK TO A MOMENT AGO ABOUT REGULATION.
THIS SEEMS TO BE AN ONGOING BATTLE THAT LEADS TO SOMETIMES ALL OF THIS KIND OF FALLOUT .
SO TODAY, THE DEMOCRATIC SENATOR , ELIZABETH WARREN, LAID THE BLAME FOR A LOT OF THIS AT THE FEET OF CHAIRMAN POWELL AND THE FED.
THIS IS WHAT SHE TREATED.
THE FED CHAIR POWELL'S ACTIONS DIRECTLY CONTRIBUTED TO THESE BANK FAILURES.
FOR THE FED 'S INQUIRY TO HAVE CREDIBILITY, POWELL MUST RECUSE HIMSELF FROM THIS INTERNAL REVIEW.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE FED'S ROLE AND DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?
>> YEAH, I THINK THAT THAT'S A REALLY TOUGH THING TO LAY AT THE FEET OF THE FED.
THE REASON WHY PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THE ROLE OF THE FED IS THE FED HAS HAD TO RAISE INTEREST RATES QUITE RAPIDLY, AND THAT RISING OF INTEREST RATES DOES CHANGE THE VALUE OF LONG-TERM ASSETS WHERE YOU THOUGHT THAT THAT ASSET WAS A GREAT DEAL --LET'S TAKE SOMETHING LIKE A MORTGAGE.
A 30 YEAR MORTGAGE THAT SOMEONE GOT WITH A LOCKED-IN 3% INTEREST RATE .
THAT DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE IN TODAY'S WORLD.
SO IF YOU'RE HOLDING THAT, IT'S NOT WORTH AS MUCH AS IT WAS TWO YEARS AGO.
BUT THE REAL CULPRIT THERE IS ACTUALLY INFLATION.
THE REAL CULPRIT IS NOT THE RISING OF RATES.
IT'S THE INFLATION THAT HAS LED THE FED TO NEED TO INCREASE RATES.
IF YOU'RE HOLDING A MORTGAGE WHERE SOMEBODY WAS ONLY PAYING 3% ON IT BUT WE ARE RUNNING 10% YOUR INFLATION, THAT ASSET IS ALSO GOING TO BECOME WORTH A LOT LESS.
SO THERE IS THIS QUESTION, SHOULD THE FED HAVE SEEN IN PATIENT COMING FASTER?
I THINK THAT'S A REALLY HARD THING TO BLAME THE FED ON.
THE FED WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TO ACT IN 2020 WHEN THEY SAW THE PANDEMIC COMING.
YES, THERE WAS AN EASING THAT WAS DONE TO TRY TO HELP KEEP STILL THINK THAT WAS THE RIGHT DECISION.
SURE THEY HAVE TIGHTENED MORE IN 2021?
I THINK HISTORY WILL GO BACK AND ASK THE QUESTION .
I'M NOT SURE I'M GOING TO SAY THE ANSWER WAS YES, THEY SHOULD HAVE.
ONE THING I KNOW IS CLEAR IS THAT THEY NEED TO SLOW DOWN IN RAISING RATES, AND THEY NEED TO HOLD RATES.
IT'S NOT ABOUT LOWERING RATES.
IT'S ABOUT A SLOW BUT STEADY INCREASE IN HOLD.
>> JAMES, TO YOU.
YOU INTERVIEWED CHAIRMAN POWELL.
I'M GOING TO PLAY A CLIP IN A MOMENT, RIGHT NOW, ABOUT HE'S FEATURED IN THIS CLIP WITH BUSINESS REPORTER CHRIS LEONARD.
HE SORT OF LAID OUT HOW WE GOT TO THIS.
I'M JUST GOING TO PLAY THAT.
>> THE FINANCIAL SYSTEM GLOBALLY HAS BEEN BUILT AROUND EXTREMELY LOW , ULTRALOW INTEREST RATES FOR TENURES.
>> MY COLLEAGUES AND I ARE STRONGLY COMMITTED TO BRINGING INFLATION BACK DOWN TO OUR 2% >> I THINK PEOPLE DON'T APPRECIATE THE MAGNITUDE OF WHAT THE FED DID OVER THE LAST DECADE, SO THAT IS GOING TO BE A LONG-TERM THING PLAYING OUT OVER TIME.
PROBABLY OVER LIKE A YEAR OR TWO.
OF SHIFTING TO A HIGHER RATE ENVIRONMENT, THEN THE CORRECTION THAT THAT'S GOING TO CAUSE.
SO HE'S TALKING ABOUT A HUGE ADJUSTMENT THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE AN ADJUSTMENT UPWARD.
THINGS AREN'T GOING TO GET EASIER.
THINGS ARE GOING TO GET HARDER.
>> I MISSPOKE THERE.
IS NOT AN INTERVIEW WITH THE CHAIRMAN BUT HE FEATURES QUITE A LOT.
SO HEARING WHAT BETSY SAID ABOUT THE FED, WHAT SORT OF CONCLUSIONS TO THE DOCUMENTARY COME TO THE ROLE OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE?
>> I CERTAINLY WISH THAT CHAIRMAN POWELL HAD GIVEN US AN INTERVIEW.
HE DIDN'T.
THE ONLY , THE ONLY SITTING OFFICIAL IS NEIL WHO'S THE CHAIRMAN OF THE MINNEAPOLIS FED.
WE SAT DOWN FOR TWO INTERVIEWS FOR THIS FILM.
I DID ASK HIM THAT QUESTION.
DO YOU THINK YOU RAN THE ECONOMY , RENT POLICY TOO HOT FOR TOO LONG?
HE SAID BASICALLY THAT GIVEN WHAT HE KNOWS NOW , THEY SHOULD HAVE TIGHTENED SOONER.
WE GET INTO HOW TOUGH A CALL THAT WAS AT THE FED WHEN THEY STARTED TO SEE INFLATION PICKING UP .
THEY REFERRED TO IT AS TRANSITORY.
THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD PASS AND THAT IT HAD A LOT TO DO WITH SUPPLY CHAINS GUMMED UP FROM THE PANDEMIC AND OTHER ISSUES THAT THEY THOUGHT WERE MOMENTARY ISSUES.
AND TRANSITORY.
THERE WERE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE SAYING IN CORPORATE AMERICA, FOR INSTANCE, COMPANIES THAT WERE SEEING ISSUES WITH THEIR SUPPLY CHAINS AND OTHER THINGS SAYING THAT THESE ISSUES WERE AND TRANSITORY.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF CHALLENGES IN THE FILM TO CASH CURRY AND THE FED ABOUT WHETHER THEY COULD HAVE ACTED SOONER.
>> NOW I'M INTERESTED AND I EXPECT WHAT A LOT OF AMERICANS AND OTHERS , POTENTIAL VICTIMS OF ALL OF THIS.
SO THE PRESIDENT STARTED, APPARENTLY, ACCORDING TO STUFF THAT'S COMING OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE, HE STARTED BY WANTING TO NOT BE SEEN TO BE DOING ANY BAILOUT, BETSY.
HE SAID APPARENTLY TO HIS PEOPLE , THAT WHATEVER WE DO, IT CAN'T BE ANOTHER BAILOUT.
WE ARE PERCEIVED TO HAVE BOLSTERED THE SO-CALLED FATCATS, AND THE WORDS OF PRESIDENT OBAMA.
YET, THERE IS AN INTERVENTION AND A LOT OF THESE DEPOSITS ARE GOING TO BE GUARANTEED.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US, IS THIS A BAILOUT?
WILL THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER BE ESSENTIALLY LIABLE FOR SOME OF IT AND WHAT'S YOUR VIEW ON THAT?
>> FIRST, I WANT TO CLARIFY ON THIS TENURES OF EASY MONEY.
I PERSONALLY GO BACK TO 2013, 2014 .
INFLATION WAS RUNNING BELOW THE FED'S TARGET AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE OUT OF WORK.
SO IF YOU CARE ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING TO ME STREET PEOPLE, I DON'T THINK THAT THE FED HAD MONEY TOO EASY IN 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016.
IT TOOK US TENURES TO CLIMB OUT OF THE 2008 RECESSION AND I THINK THE FED SHOULD HAVE BEEN EVEN STRONGER TO HELP US GET OUT OF THAT RECESSION.
THE QUESTION NOW, ASKING THIS QUESTION ABOUT IS THIS A BAILOUT?
IT'S NOT A BAILOUT.
DEPOSITORS ARE CUSTOMERS OF THE BANK ARE NOT INVESTORS IN THE BANK.
WHAT WE HAVE BEEN CLEAR ABOUT IS WE HAVE TO MAKE THE DEPOSITORS HOLD.
THAT'S JUST LIKE DEPOSIT INSURANCE.
I PUT MY MONEY IN THE BANK AND IF I DON'T DO MY DUE DILIGENCE TO INVEST , INVESTIGATE HOW STABLE THE BANK IS, I THINK MOST PEOPLE WHO BANG, EVEN SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS WHO MIGHT HAVE 400,000 OR 500,000 IN THE BANK SO THEY CAN PAY THEIR RENTS AND PAYROLL, THEY ARE NOT BETTING THE BANK.
SO WE KEPT THIS , THE FEDERAL DEPOSIT INSURANCE AT $250,000, BUT I THINK THAT CAP IS TOO LOW AND WE WANT TO PROTECT PEOPLE A LITTLE BIT MORE BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT EVERY CUSTOMER OF A BANK TO HAVE TO INVESTIGATE WHETHER THE BANK IS A GOOD BUSINESS OR NOT A GOOD BUSINESS.
A BAILOUT IS WHEN YOU HAVE THE SHAREHOLDERS, AND THEY ARE NOT DOING THAT.
THEY ARE NOT HELPING THE SHAREHOLDERS SO I DON'T THINK IT'S A BAILOUT.
MOSTLY WE WILL FIND THESE BANKS ARE SOLVENT ENOUGH THAT THE MONEY IS THERE TO PAY THE DEPOSITORS.
THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT GOING TO COME FROM TAXPAYERS , TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY ARE INSOLVENT AND WE HAVE TO COME UP WITH EXTRA MONEY TO MAKE SURE THE DEPOSITORS ALL GET 100% OF THE MONEY THEY HAD IN THE BANK.
WE MAY HAVE TO LEVY A TAX ON RISK-TAKING IN THE BANKING SYSTEM.
BUT I THINK THAT IS STILL WHAT THEY ARE SAYING CLEARLY IS THAT'S WHERE IT WILL COME FROM.
IT WILL COME FROM THAT BEHAVIOR.
IT WILL AFFECT THE SHAREHOLDERS OF BANKS.
THEY ARE THE ONES WHO WILL PAY FOR IT.
NOT REGULAR TAXPAYERS.
AND WHO WE ARE MAKING WHOLE IS THE CUSTOMER, NOT THE INVESTOR IN THE BANK.
>> LET'S GO BACK TO THEIR REGULATION PIECE OF IT THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT EARLIER.
SENATOR WARREN ALSO SENT A LETTER TO THE CEO OF THIS BANK GREG BECKER AND SHE WROTE, YOU HAVE NOBODY TO BLAME FOR THE FAILURE OF THE BANK BUT YOURSELF AND YOUR FELLOW EXECUTIVES.
YOU LOBBIED FOR WEAKER RULES YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED AND USED THIS OPPORTUNITY TO ADVOCATE YOUR BASIC RESPONSIBILITIES TO YOUR CLIENTS AND THE PUBLIC , FACILITATING AND YOUR ECONOMIC DISASTER.
LET'S PICK THAT APART.
A, BETSY, IS THAT CORRECT AND WHAT IS THIS BUSINESS OF LOBBYING FOR DEREGULATION AND THEN FINDING YOURSELVES OF THE SHARP END OF THE PROBLEM?
>> WELL, THEY SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED BECAUSE IT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
HE LOBBIED FOR SOMETHING.
HE SAID I DON'T NEED THE REGULATION.
DON'T WORRY.
WE WILL DO THE RIGHT THING EVEN WITHOUT THE REGULATION.
THEY GOT THE DEREGULATION AND THEN THEY DIDN'T DO THE RIGHT WING.
IF IT HAD BEEN 2017, THEY WOULD HAVE NOT BEEN ALLOWED TO DO WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
SO THAT DEREGULATION DIRECTLY LED TO THIS AND I THINK THAT'S WHY SENATOR WARREN IS CALLING THINK THAT'S RIGHTFULLY SO BECAUSE THE REPUBLICAN HEAD OF THE CONGRESSIONAL OFFICE SAID IF YOU DEREGULATE IN THIS WAY, WE WILL SEE MORE BANK FAILURES.
IRONICALLY, MAYBE NOT EVEN IRONICALLY, ONE OF THE VERY PEOPLE WHO LOBBIED FOR THIS WAS ONE OF THE BANKS THAT FAILED.
I THINK THIS GOES TO SHOW WHY WE NEED TO LIMIT LOBBYING BECAUSE WHAT WE HAVE ARE CONCENTRATED INTERESTS.
WE DON'T HAVE THE CUSTOMERS OF BANKS IN THEIR LOBBYING CONGRESS AND TELLING THEM, YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE THE BANKS DON'T FAIL.
THAT'S GOING TO HURT ME AND HURT ALL OF SOCIETY.
BUT YOU DO HAVE THE PEOPLE, THE INVESTORS AND BANKS AND THE PEOPLE WHO REPRESENT THE INVESTORS IN BANKS LOBBYING CONGRESS BECAUSE RISK-TAKING MEANS HIGH REWARDS .
IF WE COME IN AND BAIL OUT EVERY TIME THEY HAVE A LOSS AND THEY GET TO KEEP THE REWARDS, WE ARE ENCOURAGING RISK-TAKING.
GAINS AND NATIONALIZE THE LOSSES.
WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT TAKING EXCESSIVE RISK-TAKING IF WE ARE GOING TO BE BAILING THEM OUT WHEN THINGS DON'T GO WELL.
AND HERE, I USE THE WORD BAILING OUT, BUT LET ME BE CLEAR.
WHO WE ARE HELPING AGAIN AS THE CUSTOMER.
I'M NOT HELPING THE INVESTOR, BUT THE WAY MARKETS WORK IS IF YOU'RE DOING A BUNCH OF RISK- TAKING, THE CUSTOMERS, IF THEY CAN THAT YOU, IF THEY CAN LOOK AT THE RISK-TAKING THE BANK IS DOING, THE CUSTOMERS SHOULD GET NERVOUS AND PULLED THEIR MONEY OUT OF THE BANK.
THAT'S HOW WE GOT THE FAILURE.
BUT I FOR ONE, AND I THINK MOST OF YOUR VIEWERS DO NOT WANT TO BE IN THE BUSINESS OF HAVING TO LOOK THROUGH THEIR BANK 'S PORTFOLIO TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER THIS IS A BANK WORTH DOING BUSINESS WITH.
IF YOU'RE A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, YOU ARE A TOY STORE, WILL YOU LOVE IS SELLING TOYS, NOT BETTING BANKS.
>> INDEED.
I KNOW.
WHO HAS THE OPPORTUNITY AND EXPERTISE TO DO THAT?
THIS DOCUMENTARY, WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANT ORDINARY PEOPLE, VIEWERS, TO TAKE AWAY?
WHAT HAVE YOU WORKED FOR SO LONG FOR THEM TO COME AWAY KNOWING MORE ABOUT?
>> I THINK ONE IS TO UNDERSTAND THE ROLE THAT THE FED HAS BEEN PLAYING AND SOMETHING THAT WAS ALLUDED TO EARLIER IS THOSE YEARS AFTER THE GREAT FINANCIAL CRISIS WHEN WE HAVE SLUGGISH GROWTH AND HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT IN THIS COUNTRY.
AND THAT THE FED , SOME CALL IT THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN.
WE SAW AFTER THE 2010 MIDTERM ELECTIONS THAT GOVERNMENT FELL EVEN FURTHER INTO DYSFUNCTION IN THIS COUNTRY , WHERE THE TWO PARTIES COULDN'T GET TOGETHER TO DO ANY SORT OF MAJOR FISCAL POLICY THAT COULD LEAD TO LONGER-TERM OR INCLUSIVE AND SUSTAINABLE ECONOMIC GROWTH .
WHETHER IT BE INFRASTRUCTURE , THE GREEN TRANSITION .
BIG TAKE AWAY THAT THE FED IS AN IMPERFECT TOOL TO BE REALLY DRIVING THE AMERICAN ECONOMY.
>> WE LEAVE IT THERE.
BETSEY STEVENSON, JAMES JACOBY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>>> NOW WE TURN TO THE ART OF ACHIEVING GREATNESS.
HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED HOW EXPERTS IN VARIOUS FIELDS , LIKE MAGIC OR PAINTING BECOME SO EXCELLENT, THE ANSWER IS IN BEST-SELLING AUTHOR ADAM GOTTLIEB'S BOOK , THE REAL WORK.
WHERE HE DISCOVERS HOW GREAT SKILLS ARE BUILT WITH LEARNING WITH ARCHES, AND BOXERS.
HE'S JOINING US TO DISCUSS THE SECRET OF FINDING PERFECTION.
>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
YOUR BOOK IS CALLED THE REAL WORK ON THE MYSTERY OF MASTERY .
WHEN PEOPLE THINK OF MASTERY, PEOPLE THINK OF PUTTING IN THE HOURS.
BUT WHAT IS THE REAL WORK?
>> THE REAL WORK IS THE TERM THAT MAGICIANS USE.
MAGICIANS LOVE.
TO USE IT TO REFER TO THE TOTALLY MASTERED A TRICK.
NOT NECESSARILY THE PERSON WHO INVENTED IT.
NOT NECESSARILY THE PERSON WHO DOESN'T IN THE SLICKEST WAY.
THE GUY OR THE GIRL WHO'S REALLY GOT IT.
CAN DO IT IN A WAY THAT STARTLES AND ASTOUNDS YOU EVERY TIME.
THEY SAY HE'S GOT THE REAL WORK ON THAT.
WHEN I WAS SPENDING TIME WITH MAGICIANS AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS BOOK, I FELL IN LOVE WITH THAT TERM.
I JUST LOVE THE WAY THEY WOULD REFERENCE, WHO'S GOT THE REAL WORK?
HE'S GOT THE REAL WORK.
IT SEEMED TO ME SO EXEMPLARY OF THE WAY THAT WE ALL KNOW WHO'S GOT THE REAL WORK WILL BE NEEDED.
THAT THERE'S ALWAYS A KIND OF MASTER.
I SPEND A LOT OF MY TIME AS A REPORTER.
WHENEVER YOU ASK ANYBODY, NO MATTER WHO IT IS.
A PLUMBER OR A PAINTER, WHO'S GOT THE REAL WORK IN YOUR FIELD?
WHO'S THE WILLIE MAYS OF PLUMBERS?
YOU NEVER HAVE A MOMENT'S PAUSE.
THEY ALWAYS HAVE AN ANSWER AND WE INSTINCTIVELY FEEL , WE KNOW WHO'S GOT THE REAL WORK.
THIS BOOK IS ABOUT SEARCHING FOR THE REAL WORK IN MANY DIFFERENT MATERIALS.
>> THERE IS A LINE THAT SAYS THAT THE METHOD IS NEVER THE TRICK.
ONCE YOU'VE MASTERED THE METHOD, YOU'VE HARDLY BEGUN THE TRICK.
WHAT DOES HE MEAN?
>> THAT'S ONE OF THE WORLD GREAT SLEIGHT-OF-HAND MEN .
HE MEANS IT SOMETHING THAT'S PROBABLY TRUE AS ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE LEARNED IN LEARNING TO DRIVE, LEARNING TO DRAW, LEARNING TO DANCE, LEARNING TO BAKE.
THAT IS A DEGREE OF TECHNICAL VIRTUOSITY, THOUGH IT MAY BE ESSENTIAL FOR YOUR FIELD, DOESN'T BEGIN TO GIVE YOU MASTERY.
TECHNICAL VIRTUOSITY IS SOMETHING THAT'S WIDELY SPREAD , BUT WHAT HE MEANS BY THIS IS BEING ABLE TO DO THE MOVES WITH THE CAR DECK IF YOU'RE DOING CARD MAGIC.
IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU WILL DO ANYTHING THAT'S ASTOUNDING.
WHAT MAKES A MAGIC TRICK MAGICAL IS THE WAY IN WHICH I OR THE MAGICIAN CAN ANTICIPATE WHAT YOU'RE THINKING.
CAN READ YOUR MIND AND KNOW IN ADVANCE WHAT YOU THINK I'M GOING TO DO AND STAY ONE STEP AHEAD OF WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO AND EVERYTHING I DO.
AND RIGHT ACROSS THE BOARD, IT SOMETHING EVERY GOOD ACTOR WILL TELL YOU WHERE EVERY GOOD COMEDIAN, THAT THEY HAVE TO BE AT LEAST A SECOND AHEAD OF THE AUDIENCE IN THOSE STORYTELLING THEY ARE DOING AND THE JOKES THEY ARE MAKING.
IT'S THAT EXCHANGE BETWEEN MINDS THAT'S THE REAL ROOT OF MASTERY.
NOT SIMPLY TECHNICAL EXPERTISE.
>> YOU GOT A CHANCE TO SPEAK WITH SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T GET HEARD VERY OFTEN, AND THAT'S THE MAGICIAN TELLER OF PENN AND TELLER.
HE USUALLY PLAYS THE MEAT.
YOU HAD A VERY GOOD CONVERSATION WITH HIM AND I WAS INTRIGUED BY HOW HE PERCEIVED THE INTELLECTUAL PART OF MAGIC.
I HAD NEVER THOUGHT OF IT UNTIL THE CONVERSATION.
>> I FELL INTO THE COMPANY OF MAGICIANS A MY SON LUKE , WHO FELL IN LOVE WITH MAGIC AT THE AGE OF 13.
SEE HIM GO ALL THE WAY DOWN THIS RABBIT HOLE, BUT THEN REALIZED HE WAS EARNING MORE AND GETTING A DEEPER SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT FROM MASTERING CARD MAGIC THAN HE EVER COULD FROM STUDYING CALCULUS AND SPANISH IN SCHOOL.
I FOLLOWED HIM DOWN THIS RABBIT HOLE AS I SAY AND GOT TO MEET TELLER.
TELLERS WHOLE POINT ABOUT MAGIC IS ITS ESSENTIALLY AN INTELLECTUAL EXCHANGE.
IT'S MY MIND RACING AHEAD OF YOUR MIND.
YOU KNOW THAT I'M GOING TO MAKE THE CAR CHANGE COLOR, SO THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH.
I WILL HAVE TO MAKE THE CARD CHANGE COLOR AND SUIT.
OR I HAVE TO MAKE IT SIGNED AND FIND IT IN YOUR BACK POCKET.
IS THE ARMS RACE OF MINDS MAKES MAGIC WORK.
THAT'S WHAT TELLER WAS TALKING ABOUT.
>> YOU ALSO HAVE A CHAPTER THAT I THINK A LOT MORE PEOPLE CAN RELATE TO.
THAT THERE IS MASTERY AND WHAT MANY OF US DO WHICH IS TO DRIVE.
EXPLAINED THAT.
>> I WAS, IF YOU CAN IMAGINE, TO DRIVE AND I THINK THIS MAY BE A UNIQUE DISTINCTION.
I GOT MY DRIVERS LICENSE, PAST MY DRIVERS TEST ON EXACTLY THE SAME DAY, WITH EXACTLY THE SAME DRIVING INSPECTOR AS MY SON LUKE , WHO WAS JUST 20.
I WENT IN THE CAR FIRST AND THEN HE WENT IN THE CAR AND GOT HIS.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES THAT'S HAPPENED.
IT'S FASCINATING THAT SOMEONE WHO HAD NEVER DRIVEN A DOLL , AND THAT WAS A HUGE AMOUNT FOR ME TO SURMOUNT BECAUSE I WAS COMING TO IT SO LATE.
WHAT I LEARNED ABOUT IT IS THAT DRIVING ISN'T JUST A TECHNICAL, ISN'T JUST A MASTERY OF THE CAR .
OF THE TECHNOLOGY.
IT'S A WHOLE ENTERPRISE.
WE ARE CONSTANTLY COMMUNICATING WITH OTHER DRIVERS.
THIS GREAT, CRAZY DRIVING TEACHER, ARTURO, HE SAID ALWAYS GIVE SOMEONE THE HAND.
THE HAND MEANS BLESS YOU, F YOU , WHATEVER YOU MEAN IT TO MEAN.
AND YOU ARE CONSTANTLY ENGAGED IN THE KIND OF COMMUNICATION WITH OTHER DRIVERS.
ABOUT IS THAT CARS ARE NOT TERRIBLY DIFFICULT TO OPERATE, BUT THEY ARE INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS.
WE HAVE SORT OF ABSORBED THAT DANGER INTO OUR SYSTEMS.
AND ON THE WHOLE, WE HAVE ACCIDENTS , GOD KNOWS, BUT ON THE WHOLE, NEW YORK CITY, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY RISK YOUR LIFE EVERY TIME YOU CROSS THE STREET BECAUSE DRIVERS KNOW HOW TO INTERACT WITH OTHER DRIVERS.
IT'S A BEAUTIFUL EXAMPLE OF WHAT'S CALLED A SELF EMERGING, SELF-GOVERNING SYSTEM.
IN THAT WAY, DRIVING IS VERY INSPIRING FOR A DEMOCRATIC IMAGINATION.
>> WHAT IS IT ?
THE MASTERS YOU SPOKE WITH , WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THEIR BRAINS WHEN THEY GET TO A LEVEL OF PROFICIENCY OR MASTERY?
IS THERE AN AUTOPILOT?
IS THERE A ZONE THAT THEY GET INTO?
>> YES.
WE HAVE A BEAUTIFUL PHRASE FOR IT.
THE FLOW.
IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE LEARN RIGHT ACROSS EVERYTHING THAT YOU ATTEMPT IN MIDDLE AGE.
BY THE MYSTERY OF HOW OTHERS HAVE MASTERED THEM.
IT'S THAT EVERYTHING YOU TRY, WHETHER IT'S DRAWING OR DANCING OR BOXING, WHICH I TOOK UP, BEGINS WITH A SET OF SMALL, AWKWARD STEPS THAT YOU HAVE TO MASTER.
IN BOXING, IS KEEPING YOUR HANDS UP .
THROWING A JAB AND THEN THROWING CROSS.
WE SEEN THAT 1 MILLION TIMES, BUT WE ARE NOT AWARE THAT IT'S A LEARNED SEQUENCE.
SLOWLY, OVER TIME, WHETHER IT'S A DANCE STEP OR A RUSH MARK OR A JAB AND ACROSS, THOSE SMALL AWKWARD STEPS DEVELOP INTO A KIND OF SEAMLESS SEQUENCE.
THAT'S TRUE RIGHT ACROSS ALL THE FIELDS, THAT I LOOKED AT.
IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT A SERIES OF SMALL STEPS BECOMING A SEAMLESS SEQUENCE.
THAT SEAMLESS SEQUENCE COMES TO SIT INSIDE OURSELVES.
IS WHAT WE CALL THE FLOW.
THAT FEELING OF THE FLOW.
OF ABSORPTION IS I SUGGEST MAYBE THE BEST FEELING, ONE OF THE BEST FEELINGS WE EVER GET IN LIFE WORK DRAW, YOU HAD THE OPTION TO WALK AROUND AND UNDERSTAND ART IN A DIFFERENT WAY WITH SOMEONE WHO IS VERY GOOD AT IT.
WHAT DID YOU LEARN DURING THE PROCESS OF WHAT IT TAKES TO BE GOOD AT SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AND UNIVERSAL THAT WE SEE AROUND US, WHICH IS TO DRAW?
>> IT WAS DELIBERATELY KIND OF COMPENSATORY.
CHASTENING IN MIDDLE AGE.
I'VE BEEN AN ART CRITIC FOR 40 YEARS, BUT I NEVER KNEW HOW TO DRAW.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A GREAT DRAFTSMAN TO BE A SMART ART CRITIC .
BUT IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND IN SOME PLACES YOUR INNER SELF WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO BE ABLE TO DRAW, THEN I SUSPECT YOUR JUDGMENT WILL NEVER ENTIRELY RIPEN.
SO I WENT TO STUDY WITH AN INCREDIBLY OLD-FASHIONED REACTIONARY DRAWING MASTER , MY FRIEND JACOB COLLINS WHO HATES ALL MODERN ART.
AND I'VE BEEN WRITING ABOUT MODERN ART.
THE FRICTION BETWEEN THIS BEAUTIFUL SYSTEM OF SHADED LINE DRAWING STARING AT A NUDE BODY FOR HOURS ON END.
LEARNING TO DEPICT EVERY PATCH OF SHADOW.
EVERY LITTLE TROLL OF FAT ON A HUMAN BODY WAS AN INCREDIBLE FORM OF INTELLECTUAL DISCIPLINE FOR ME.
AND IT INCREASED MY RESPECT FOR THE GREAT DRAWING MASTERS AND I LEARNED AGAIN EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
THE WAY YOU LEARN TO DRAW IS NOT BY LOOKING AT A FACE AND SUDDENLY AN EPIPHANY COMES DOWN AND TOUCHES YOU ON THE SHOULDER AND YOUR HAND IS MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
YOU LEARN A WHOLE SERIES OF STEPS.
JACOB TAUGHT ME , ALWAYS DO TILTS IN TIME.
LOOK AT THE FACE AND THERE, YOU JUST MOVED YOUR HEAD TO 25 MINUTES TO 11.
I'VE DRAWN THAT AND MADE THE FIRST OF TWO DRAWING YOU.
ONCE AGAIN, IT'S AN AWKWARD SCHEMATIC , ALMOST CHILDLIKE DEPICTION WHEN I DO THAT.
BUT IF I MAKE TILTS IN TIME, I CAN BEGIN TO ASCEND TO BEING ABLE TO DRAW.
>> LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE, I PICKED UP MAKING SURE THE PANDEMIC AND I ALWAYS WONDER, WHAT IS IT THAT WILL SEPARATE SOMETHING THAT I MAKE FROM ANYBODY ELSE, IF THEY FOLLOWED THIS SAME INSTRUCTION?
IF WE USE THE SAME INGREDIENTS AND FOLLOWED EVERYTHING DOWN TO THE LETTER, WHY IS IT THAT THE PERSON WHO WROTE THAT RECIPE , THE MASTER, SO TO SPEAK , WHY DOES THEIR COOKIE TASTE BETTER THAN MINE?
>> IT'S THE KEY QUESTION.
I HAVE A CHAPTER ON THE BOOK ABOUT BAKING WITH MY MOTHER.
BECAUSE MY MOTHER WAS A GREAT ACRE.
I WANTED TO LEARN EXACTLY THAT.
WHY WAS IT MY BREAD TASTING LIKE MY MOM'S BREAD?
WHAT IT IS COVERED IS EXACTLY AS YOU SAY.
AS IN EVERYTHING IN LIFE, THE SECRET LIES IN THE SLIPPAGE BETWEEN THE INGREDIENTS AND THE ACTS IN THE RECIPE.
ALL THE THINGS YOU CAN SUBSTANTIATE OR CODE FOR IS WHERE THE THE VITAL IMPERFECTION, THE WAY SHE ROLLS IT .
THE WAY SHE KNOWS EXACTLY TO THE SECOND WHEN TO TAKE IT OUT OF THE OVEN.
THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT ARE INSTINCTIVE THINGS THAT WE HAVE ACQUIRED OVER THE YEARS.
THE OTHER THING THAT'S VERY BEAUTIFUL IS THAT LITERALLY ONE OF THE THINGS I DISCOVERED IS THAT THE DIRT AND BACTERIA ON OUR HANDS ENTERS PROFITABLY INTO THE MATERIAL .
THE THINGS WE ARE MAKING.
THE BACTERIA OF BAKER'S DEAD FOR CENTURIES IS STILL PRESENT IN THE SOURDOUGH STARTER THEY LEAVE US.
SO ALL THOSE THINGS I LOOKED AT OUR DEEPLY HUMAN ACTIVITIES IN THE SENSE THAT WHAT WE SEARCH FOR IS NOT STRICT TECHNICAL PERFECTION, BUT THE MEANINGFUL SIGNS OF HUMAN IMPERFECTION.
THE VIBRATO IN OUR VOICE, THE INSERT IN THE INNER METER.
>> IN THIS ERA, ESPECIALLY IN SOCIAL MEDIA, WE ARE KIND OF REALLY INTO THE END PRODUCT.
THE RESULTS.
WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE SAYING IN THIS BOOK ABOUT THE VALUE OF PROCESS?
>> IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE LEARNED AND I HOPE I'M SAYING NOW IS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A MASTER OF SOMETHING TO GET AN ENORMOUSLY SATISFYING FEELING OF MASTERY.
I GIVE THE EXAMPLE IN ONE PART OF THE BOOK THAT HUMMINGBIRDS AND ELEPHANTS HAVE EXACTLY, THIS IS TRUE, EXACTLY THE SAME NUMBER OF HEARTBEATS IN A LIFETIME.
THEY JUST EXPERIENCED THINGS IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
IN THE SAME WAY, I'M NOT A TERRIFIC MUSICIAN.
GOD KNOWS I'M NOT A GREAT DRAFTSMAN AND YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO PUT ME IN THE RING WITH ANYONE EXCEPT FOR ANOTHER MIDDLE-AGED WRITER.
BUT THE SENSE OF SATISFACTION THAT I'VE ACQUIRED THROUGH THOSE ACCOMPLISHMENTS, THE WAY THAT SIMPLY THE PROCESS OF THEM COMES TO SIT INSIDE YOUR BODY AND BECOME A KIND OF FOUNDATION FOR EVERYTHING ELSE YOU DO IN THE VOCATION THAT YOU PRACTICE .
IN WRITING , IN MY CASE, IS REALLY PROFOUND.
WE HAVE A SOCIETY THAT'S SO EMPHASIZES ACHIEVEMENT.
PASSING THE TEST.
HEADING INTO THE NEXT SCHOOL.
REALLY REALLY THINK ABOUT OUR OWN LIVES, IS THE FOUNDATION OF ACCOMPLISHMENT THAT I THINK MATTERS MOST TO US.
I'M A GOOD WRITER TODAY BECAUSE I WAS STRUGGLING TO FORM BEETLE CHORDS ON THE GUITAR I NEVER TOUCHED BEFORE THE AGE OF 12.
EVERY TIME WE GIVE OURSELVES THE CHALLENGE OF MASTERING SOMETHING THAT SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE TO US BEFORE, WE BECOME MORE ASSURED, MORE SERENE, MORE ACCOMPLISHED PEOPLE.
>> YOU ARE NOT THE AVERAGE BEAR, SO TO SPEAK , IN THAT YOU'VE HAD A LIFE WHERE YOU HAVE HAD CURIOSITY AS A LICENSE AND YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO FEED THAT CURIOSITY THROUGH DOING STORIES ON A NUMBER OF THINGS.
IN THE PROCESS OF THIS BOOK, DID IT CHANGE YOUR APPRECIATION OF THE MASTERY THAT MAY BE ALL AROUND US THAT WE ARE NOT AWARE IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
ONE MOMENT I HAD AS MY SON LUKE WAS STUDYING GUITAR AND WE WENT TO SOME NEW YORK COCKTAIL PARTY AND THERE WAS A BAND PLAYING IN THE BACK.
NO ONE WAS PAYING ATTENTION TO THEM.
LUKE LOOKED AT THIS POOR GUY AND SAID DAD, THAT GOD IS A BETTER GUITAR PLAYER THAN ANYONE I'VE EVER STUDIED WITH.
SO PART OF IT IS BECOMING AWARE THAT THERE IS SO MUCH MASTERY IN THE WORLD I TELL THE STORY IN THE BOOK.
ABOUT HOW THERE WAS THIS FAMOUS CHESS PLAYING AUTOMATON IN THE 18th CENTURY CALLED THE TURP WHICH WAS A MAGICIANS ILLUSION.
THEY HAD TO FIND CHESS PLAYERS TO SIT INSIDE THE CABINET AND MANIPULATE THE HANDS OF THE OTTOMAN FIGURE.
WHAT WAS SO COOL ABOUT IT WAS THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE ONE GREAT CHEST PLAYER .
SOMEBODY WHO DID IT ALL THE TIME.
EVERY TIME HE WENT TO A NEW CITY, THE MAGICIANS WOULD GO TO A CHESS CAFE AS A IS THERE ANYONE WHO NEEDS A GIG AND DOESN'T MIND CLOSE WORKING CONDITIONS?
MASTERY IS VERY SMART FAR SPREAD OUT ONE MORE THING IT REMINDS US OF IS PEOPLE WE THINK OF AS THE ULTIMATE MASTERS, THE BEST IN ANY FIELD.
THOSE WILLIE MAYS PEOPLE.
THEY TEND TO BE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DISCOVERED SOME VITAL FORM OF IMPERFECTION.
THAT'S THE BEAUTIFUL THING ABOUT BLUES SINGING OR JIMI HENDRIX GUITAR.
IT'S A DEGREE OF DISTORTION, IMPERFECTION THAT THEY DISCOVER , THAT LIBERATES OUR OWN IMAGINATIONS.
SO THERE'S THIS WONDERFUL DIALOGUE BETWEEN TECHNICAL PERFECTION AND MEANINGFUL IMPERFECTION THAT I THINK IS THE REAL SIGN OF MASTERY.
>> HOW MUCH OF MASTERY IS TIME, REPETITION , EXPERIENCE?
WE'VE HEARD THAT IDEA THAT IT TAKES 10,000 HOURS TO BECOME A MASTER OR SOMETHING.
OR GOOD AT SOMETHING.
NOT ALL MASTERS OR NOT ALL PEOPLE THAT REACH EXCEPTIONAL SKILL AT SOMETHING HAVE NECESSARILY PUT IN THAT 10,000 HOURS IN THAT SKILL?
>> LOOK, IT'S A COMPLICATED DIALOGUE BETWEEN WHAT WE PROPERLY CALLED NATURAL TALENT THAT WE ALL KNOW WHAT THAT IS.
GRADE WHO COULD DRAW LIKE A WIZARD.
THAT GIRL HAS A DIFFERENT TALENT THAN I DO.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE ALSO KNOW THAT ALMOST EVERYTHING IS SUSCEPTIBLE TO PERSEVERANCE AND EFFORT.
MILES DAVIS MAY BE THE GREATEST JAZZ TRUMPET PLAYER.
HE WASN'T THOUGHT OF AS A TERRIBLY TALENTED JAZZ PLAYER WHEN HE FIRST CAME UP.
BUT HIS MUSICAL IMAGINATION WAS SO EXACTING AND SO ORIGINAL THAT HE COULD GO ON TO FIND NEW WAYS OF PLAYING ALL THE TIME.
TALENT IS A REAL THING.
THE CASA WAS AN INSANELY TALENTED DRAFTSMAN.
A DRAFTSMAN OF GENIUS.
CÉZANNE WAS NOT.
CÉZANNE JUST HAD HIS GENIUS.
IF HE TOLD YOU WERE TO MAKE YOUR MARK, YOU AND I COULD DO IT.
WE COULDN'T SEE IT, BUT WE COULD DO IT.
IS THE DIALOGUE BETWEEN IMAGINATION AND TECHNICAL VIRTUOSITY THAT WE RECOGNIZE AS ART.
WITH THINK THAT THEY ARE?
>> NO.
IN MY EXPERIENCE, PERPETUAL DISSATISFACTION OF ACTUAL MASTERY.
I DON'T KNOW ANYONE WHO'S GOOD AT SOMETHING WHO THINKS THAT THEY ARE FINALLY VERY GOOD.
I WROTE ONCE ABOUT A GREAT WINEMAKER WHO IS ALWAYS DISSATISFIED WITH THE WINE HE MAKES.
WE ALL JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE BY THE SCALE OF THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENTS, BUT THEY JUDGE THEMSELVES AS WE JUDGE OURSELVES, BY THE ORIGINAL SCALE OF OUR AMBITIONS.
THE SPACE ALWAYS BETWEEN OUR AMBITIONS AND OUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS INTERNALLY IS ENORMOUS, NO MATTER HOW BIG THOSE ACCOMPLISHMENTS ARE.
I WOULD SAY THAT PERPETUAL UNHAPPINESS WITH THE SCALE OF EURO, SCHMITZ COMPARED TO YOUR ORIGINAL AMBITIONS IS A SURE SIGN OF MASTERY.
>> ADAM GOTTLIEB.
THE TITLE OF THE BOOK IS THE REAL WORK ON THE MYSTERY OF MASTERY.
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>>> FINALLY, TOWNS AND CITIES AS CHERRY BLOSSOM SEASON GETS UNDERWAY.
THE BLOOMS ARE A HIGHLIGHT OF EVERY JAPANESE SWING TIME AND THEY DRAW IN MILLIONS OF TOURISTS.
THIS YEAR, THE FLOWERS BLOOMED 10 DAYS AHEAD OF SCHEDULE .
BEAUTIFUL, BUT WORRYING FOR METEOROLOGIST.
THEY SAY THE WARM TEMPERATURES PARTIALLY DRIVEN BY CLIMATE CHANGE ARE TO BLAME.
BUT FOR A FEW MONTHS, SITTERS CAN BASK IN JAPAN'S SIGNATURE SEASON.
THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.
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