>> Eric: TUESDAY WAS A BLOCKBUSTER DAY IN POLITICS.
DONALD TRUMP MADE HISTORY WITH HIS ARRAIGNMENT IN A NEW YORK CITY COURTROOM.
ON THE VERY SAME DAY VOTERS WENT TO THE POLLS IN WISCONSIN AND IN CHICAGO.
THE WINDY CITY SELECTED A NEW MAYOR, THE DAIRY STATE VOTERS DETERMINED WHO CONTROLLED THE STATE SUPREME COURT.
WE'LL END THE HOUR TALKING ABOUT THESE STORIES AND OTHERS AND SOME STUFF CLOSER TO OUR ZIP CODE.
AND WE'RE JOINED BY LARRY JACOBS HEADS THE CENTER FOR POLITICS AND GOVERNANCE AT THE HUMPHREY SCHOOL AT THE U OF M, STEVEN SCHIER IS HERE, EMERITUS AT CARLETON UNIVERSITY AND BY WAY OF ZOOM, CYNTHIA RUGELEY SHE HEADS THE POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT AT UMD.
PROFESSOR RUGELEY, YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE DOORSTEP OF WISCONSIN.
SO I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS INTERESTING BALLOT DAY IN THE BADGER STATE WHERE A LIBERAL WINS THE SUPREME COURT SEAT BUT A EPUBLICAN WINS A STATE SENATE SEAT AND NOW THE REPUBLICANS IN THE SENATE HAVE A SUPERMAJORITY.
SO WHAT WAS GOING GOING ON IN WISCONSIN?
>> YOU KNOW, IT IS INTERESTING.
THE REPUBLICANS HAD A SUPERMAJORITY, THE REPUBLICAN THAT WAS ELECTED REPLACED ANOTHER REPUBLICAN.
THE SUPREME COURT RACE WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE OF THE MARGIN, AND IT KIND OF SHOWS A LITTLE BIT OF A GROWING TREND IN WISCONSIN.
YOU'RE SEEING MADISON, DANE COUNTY JUST HAVING BLOW-AWAY DEMOCRATIC VICTORIES LIKE 81, 82% IN THE MOST RECENT ELECTIONS.
MILWAUKEE SUBURBS WHERE YOU'VE SEEN FOR SONG REPUBLICANS HAVE BLOWOUTS, THEY'RE TIGHTENING UP.
I THINK MITT ROMNEY CARRIED THEM AND IT'S DOWN TO 5 PERCENTAGE POINTS NOW.
INTERESTING THING ABOUT THE SENATE RACE THE JUDICIAL CANDIDATE ON THE SAME DISTRICT BY ABOUT THE SAME PERCENTAGE AS THE SENATE CANDIDATE.
SO THERE WAS A SPLIT.
BUT IT IS REALLY INTERESTING IN THAT, IN THAT REPUBLICANS ARE GROWING THEIR MARGINS IN THE RURAL COUNTIES BUT IN THOSE SUBURBAN COUNTIES THEY'RE NOT DOING SO WELL.
>> Eric: ALL RIGHT.
>> OR NOT DOING AS WELL AS THEY ONCE DID, SO IT'S INTERESTING TO WATCH AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON THERE AND, AGAIN, IT LOOKS LIKE THE SUBURBS MIGHT BE MAKING A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A DIFFERENCE HAN PEOPLE HAVE REALIZED IN WISCONSIN.
>> Eric: I'M GUESSING ABORTION MUST STILL BE AT PLAY HERE.
>> OH, YEAH, ABORTION WAS A HUGE ISSUE AND OF COURSE THE REPUBLICANS ARE NOT HELPING THEMSELVES.
THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT LIMITING ABORTION AND THAT MAKES THE DEMOCRATS JUST SMILE.
WE ARE SEEING SOME PATTERNS IN WISCONSIN THAT CARRY OVER FROM WHAT WE SAW LAST YEAR, ABORTION, BUT ALSO THE REPUBLICANS ARE SELECTING CANDIDATES HO APPEAL TO THE PRIMARY VOTER, THAT IS MORE TO THE RIGHT, AND THEY'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT THE GENERAL ELECTION.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE SAW IN THE SUPREME COURT RACE AND WHY THE DEMOCRATIC SUPPORTED CANDIDATE WON BY A SHOCKING 11 POINTS.
>> YEAH, I THINK CANDIDATE QUALITY MADE A BIG DIFFERENCE HERE.
KELLY HAS RUN TWICE, THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE AND HE LOST BY THE SAME MARGIN EACH TIME.
THAT TELLS YOU ABOUT WHAT HIS STATEWIDE APPEAL WAS.
BUT ALSO CAMPAIGN FINANCE.
I MEAN, DEMOCRATS AND THE LEFT ARE MUCH BETTER AT THIS, PARTICULARLY IN THE EARLY STAGES OF THE CAMPAIGN, THEIR MESSAGING WAS DOMINANT ON THE AIRWAVES UNTIL THE LAST TWO WEEKS WHEN IT WAS MORE COMPETITIVE.
AND WHEN YOU FALL THAT FAR BEHIND AS A CANDIDATE AND SPENDING EARLY ON YOU GET TO -- YOU GET DEFINED AND YOU CAN'T COME BACK.
>> Cathy: SAY, WHAT DID YOU ALL THINK, I'LL START WITH PROFESSOR JACOBS, THE TENNESSEE LEGISLATURE.
THE TWO BLACK DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS WERE REMOVED FOR ISSUED OF DECORUM ON THE FLOOR.
THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT OFTEN.
>> IT DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT OFTEN.
IF YOU GO BACK TO THE CIVIL WAR THERE HAVE ONLY BEEN THREE PRIOR INSTANCES AND THEY INVOLVE THINGS LIKE CRIMINAL CONVICTIONS AND SEXUAL HARASSMENT.
THERE WERE OTHER WAYS TO DISCIPLINE MEMBERS FOR BREAKING PROTOCOL, AND I THINK HE BROADER CONTEXT HERE IS SIX PEOPLE WERE KILLED, INCLUDING THREE CHILDREN.
SO I THINK IN TENNESSEE THIS WAS A MISSTEP.
AND NOW TO THE LARGE WO OF THE LARGER CITIES, MEMPHIS AND NASHVILLE DON'T HAVE REPRESENTATION.
>> Eric: PROFESSOR RUGELEY, YOU WANT TO WEIGH IN ON HE TENNESSEE SITUATION?
>> YOU KNOW, I THINK IT WAS AN -- ERROR, YOU ADE A HERO OUT OF TWO LAWMAKERS.
AND WHAT COULD WELL HAPPEN IS THAT THE COUNTIES JUST TURN AROUND AND REAPPOINT THEM OR THEY RUN AGAIN AND WIN REELECTION.
BUT AGAIN IT WAS UNNECESSARY AND CONTINUES, BUILDS ON A LITTLE BIT OF A REPUTATION THAT THEY'RE GETTING THAT REPUBLICANS CHEAT.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT WAS AN UNFORTUNATE ERROR AND IT WAS A MISTAKE AND SOMETHING THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE.
>> Eric: REPERCUSSIONS POLITICALLY?
>> WELL, KAMALA HARRIS IS GOING TO TENNESSEE TO TRY AND MAKE THIS A NATIONAL ISSUE.
AND OF COURSE THE RACIAL ELEMENT WILL BE PLAYED HEAVILY HERE.
SO IN THE STATE OF TENNESSEE, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S A HUGE MAJORITY REPUBLICAN STATE AND BUT BEYOND THAT I THINK DEMOCRATS WANT TO NATIONALIZE THIS ISSUE.
>> Eric: CLARENCE THOMAS THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE ACCEPTING EXPENSIVE HOSPITALITY FROM A G.O.P.
BILLIONAIRE FUNDRAISER, SAID TODAY HE DOESN'T HAVE TO DISCLOSE THE LUXURY TRIPS.
I'M WONDERING, TINA SMITH NOW IS SAYING EXPAND THE COURT NUMBER, AOC IS SAYING I'M GOING TO FILE IMPEACHMENT PAPERS.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS >> I DON'T THINK MUCH WILL HAPPEN AND CLARENCE THOMAS IS RIGHT THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BECAUSE THERE RE ALMOST NO DISCLOSURE REQUIREMENTS FOR SUPREME COURT JUSTICES.
I THINK THIS MOMENT IT IS A BAD MOMENT FOR THE RULE OF LAW.
WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, CLARENCE THOMAS AT THE BECK AND CALL OF A VERY WEALTHY REPUBLICAN DONOR.
WE'VE HAD THE MOST EXPENSIVE STATE SUPREME COURT RACE IN HISTORY IN WISCONSIN.
AND THEN WE'VE GOT LARGE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS INCLUDING DEMOCRATS WHO THINK THAT THE INDICTMENT OF DONALD TRUMP IS A POLITICAL HATCHET JOB.
SO THIS IS JUST NOT GOOD.
YOU WANT OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM TO BE CONSIDERED FAIR BY EVERYBODY.
>> Cathy: SO LET'S ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED EARLIER IN THE WEEK WITH THE FORMER PRESIDENT BEING ARRAIGNED AND PLEADING NOT GUILTY TO, WHAT, 34 COUNTS.
THAT WAS HISTORICAL, DID YOU WATCH IT, WHAT DID YOU THINK?
>> IT WAS THE TRUMP SHOW, AND I THINK DONALD TRUMP WAS PLAYING IT UP AND IT HAS ACTUALLY HELPED HIM POLITICALLY WITHIN HIS OWN PARTY TO A SIGNIFICANT EXTENT.
TRUMP IS BOTH THE PRODUCT AND THE ACCELERANT OF THIS SITUATION.
AND OF THE SORT OF BATTLES AND ILL WILL THAT CHARACTERIZES SO MUCH OF UR POLITICS THAT LARRY WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT.
>> I THINK THE KEY THING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK IN NEW YORK IS WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR OUR DEMOCRACY?
BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN THE BIG QUESTION AROUND DONALD TRUMP.
AND IT JUST BOGGLES MY MIND WHY IT IS THAT MANHATTAN D.A., YOU KNOW, KIND OF JUMPED THE QUEUE.
PROSECUTORS HAVE A LOT OF DISCRETION.
AND THERE'S QUITE A BIT OF INVESTIGATION GOING IN GEORGIA WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT DONALD TRUMP AND HIS AIDES WERE TRYING TO ALTER THE OUTCOME OF THAT ELECTION, INCLUDING DONALD TRUMP ON RECORDED PHONE CALL DOING THAT.
THERE'S ALSO THE ISSUE OF THE JANUARY 6TH HEARINGS.
THOSE ARE MORE CENTRAL TO WHAT DONALD TRUMP'S LEGACY IS GOING TO BE, WHICH IS HIS THREAT TO THE RULE OF DEMOCRACY.
>> Eric: PROFESSOR RUGELEY, ARE DEMOCRATS SAYING GO TRUMP GO?
OR WHAT'S THE LONGER TERM IMPACT POSSIBLY HERE?
>> IF THEY ARE SAYING GO TRUMP GO, THEY SHOULDN'T BECAUSE I MEAN, YOU DON'T EVER -- YOU DON'T EVER TAKE ANYTHING FOR GRANTED.
AND SO, NO, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IF THEY ARE, THEY'RE BETTING AGAINST THEIR OWN INTERESTS.
WHEN THEY INVESTED IN CANDIDATES DURING THE MIDTERM ELECTION THAT VOTED TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE WEAKER CANDIDATES THAT WAS A PRETTY RISKY STRATEGY.
I THINK THEY THOUGHT IN 2016 DONALD TRUMP WOULD BE THE EASY CANDIDATE AND HE PROVED TO BE OTHERWISE.
AND SO THEY MAY BE DOING IT BUT I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD.
I THINK THAT I WANT TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING LARRY SAID BECAUSE I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CLARENCE THOMAS AND THAT'S THE WHOLE ISSUE OF LEGITIMACY OF THE COURT.
WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT, YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT AN OUTPUT, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LEGITIMACY, IT'S A PROCESS.
AND I THINK WE'RE STARTING TO HAVE PEOPLE THINK THAT THE PROCESS IS A BIT CORRUPTED.
I MEAN, THAT, YOU KNOW, THE ABORTION DECISION, THROWING OUT SOMETHING THAT HAD BEEN IN PLACE ALMOST 50 YEARS AND NOW YOU HAVE A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE WHO'S HANGING OUT WITH RICH DONORS AND I MEAN, IT'S NOT GOOD AND IT BRINGS IN TO QUESTION THE WHOLE LEGITIMACY OF AN INSTITUTION BECAUSE YOU DON'T TRUST THE PROCESS ANYMORE.
WHAT HAPPENED IN WISCONSIN, YOU KNOW WITH, THE MONEY, I THINK THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE SEVERAL YEARS AGO THERE WAS A SUPREME COURT CASE, IT WAS MINNESOTA V. WHITE, THAT SAID, THAT REALLY KIND OF CHANGED THE ETHICS RULE IN THOSE RACES THAT YOU NO LONGER HAVE TO, YOU'RE NOT NO LONGER PROHIBITED FROM TALKING ABOUT ISSUES THAT YOU MAY BE RULING ON.
AND THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN QUESTIONS AMONG A LOT OF JUDICIAL SCHOLARS WHETHER OR NOT THIS WAS GOING TO LEAD TO JUDICIAL CAMPAIGNS BEING JUST LIKE CAMPAIGNS FOR ANY OTHER OFFICE AND SO IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE IT APPEARS THAT THAT MIGHT BE THE CASE.
>> YEAH.
>> Cathy: HOW DO YOU THINK, AS POLITICAL SCIENTISTS, WE REPAIR THE PUBLIC DISTRUST OF SOME OF THESE INSTITUTIONS?
>> WELL, I THINK IT STARTS WITH WHO YOU ELECT AND WHO THE LEADERS ARE BECAUSE THEY SET THE TONE FOR THE COUNTRY.
AND TO THE EXTENT YOU HAVE DIVISIVE POISONOUS RHETORIC FROM LEADERS THE WHOLE SYSTEM COMES INTO QUESTION.
AND WE NEED TO GET BEYOND THAT.
SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY SOLUTION SHORT OF FINDING THE RIGHT LEADERS WHO CAN BRING US TOGETHER.
EASY TO SAY, HARD TO DO.
>> I AGREE WITH STEVEN.
THE WAY I WOULD PUT IT IS OUR DIRECT PRIMARIES RIGHT NOW ARE BECOMING A SIEVE IN TERMS OF FILTERING OUT DEMAGOGUES, AND WE'RE SEEING IT A BIT ON THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BUT I WOULD SAY MORE ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.
WE NEED A PROCESS IN WHICH WE'RE NOMINATING THE HIGHEST QUALITY CANDIDATES THAT ENJOY THE RESPECT OF THEIR COLLEAGUES IN THEIR PARTY AND OUTSIDE OF IT AND WE'RE NOT GETTING THAT ANYMORE.
>> AND THERE AREN'T A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE THAT IN POLITICS, THEY'RE JUST NOT IN THE HEADLINES, AND THEY'RE NOT SETTING THE TONE.
>> Eric: GOT A MINUTE LEFT.
PROFESSOR RUGELEY, RESTORING TRUST IN INSTITUTIONS.
>> I THINK IT STARTS WITH THE TOP.
I AGREE WITH OUR OTHER TWO PANELISTS, THAT WE NEED TO ELECT BETTER PEOPLE.
AND I THINK OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS NEED TO TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PROTECTING OUR DEMOCRACY AND THE INSTITUTIONS AND THEY NEED TO ASSUME THAT RESPONSIBILITY AND IF NOT MAYBE THERE'S A BETTER CAREER FOR THEM.
>> Eric: REPUBLICANS FOUND A KLOBUCHAR OPPONENT YET?
ANY NAMES?
>> NOT THAT I KNOW OF.
>> NO, THEY'D LIKE O FIND SOMEONE BUT THEY'RE HAVING A HARD TIME BECAUSE WHO WANTS TO RUN AGAINST AMY KLOBUCHAR?
>> Eric: WE RAN LONG TONIGHT DUE TO ALL THE NEWS OF THE WEEK.
HERE'S A QUICK REMINDER THAT LAWMAKERS WILL BE BACK IN SESSION NEXT TUESDAY AND YOU CAN ATCH ALL OF