-Too often we're shipping our children off to the military.
We idealize what they're about to do and we don't keep watch over their welfare as much as we would if they were at college.
We just assume that the military will take care of them and that they're ready.
-Well, my experience in the -- in the -- when I went to work in the hospital was my -- the commander of my unit was constantly after me.
We went into rooms a lot, private rooms, doing eye exams.
And he was constantly badgering me for sex.
-You've got your sexual harassment -- that can happen on a multitude of levels.
And I've heard, you know, more than one instance here.
And then you have your actual assault, you have your rape.
Right?
Let's call that exactly what it is.
It's not someone that was lightly assaulted.
It's not somebody that was patted on the back.
It was somebody that was raped.
♪♪ -Far too often women face gender bias, sexual harassment and even sexual assault simply while trying to serve their country.
Many of these cases go unreported and those that do often fall short of justice.
I know this because of my own personal experiences.
Hi.
I'm Stacy Pearsall, retired Air Force staff sergeant, and today I'm sitting down with Colleen Bushnell, Connie Osier, and Stephanie Gattas -- three veterans who've had their own experiences of sexual assault.
We talk about how their cases were handled, how it impacts their lives now, and the fight they are continuing to wage after action.
-♪ There will light ♪ ♪ There is a road ♪ ♪ Marching on ♪ ♪ Coming home ♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ [ Whooshing ] ♪♪ -Stephanie, thank you so much for taking the time to come out to the farm and sit down and talk with me a little bit.
The one thing that's really great is it's just a conversation amongst veterans.
You know, we speak each other's language and we've -- we've all had alike experience, each and every one of us.
So that's what brings us together today.
I like to start every roundtable discussion with a little bit of background and what your origin story is.
So, where are you from?
How did you end up in the service?
What branch of service did you choose?
What did you do in that service?
Since you're right in front of me, Connie, I'm going to put you on the hot seat first.
-All right.
Well, I was born in Maine, one of nine children, and decided at 18, from protesting the Vietnam War to being in the military, the Women's Army Corps.
-But how do you -- how does one go from protesting to being like, "I'm going to do this"?
-I'm not sure!
I questioned it at the time.
-Connie Osier enlisted in the Women's Army Corps in 1973 from her home state in Maine.
While serving, she suffered from frequent unsolicited advances and was later sexually assaulted.
After leaving the Army, she began to self-medicate and became homeless.
Overcoming the odds, Connie got help and now lives peacefully off the grid with her horses in California.
-It was a big change for me.
It was the first time I'd really left home.
I signed up to be a veterinary assistant, ended up being a medic, trained as a medic, and ultimately ended up being an optician in Colorado.
-From what I understand, all of us have another thing in common, which we come from military families.
So we were all a military brat at some point.
Was there any influence from your parents having served that...?
-No, my dad was out long before I was born and he was a truck driver, lifelong truck driver.
Mostly I was looking for a safe way to leave home where I had some structure -- I had meals, a place to live, learn a job skill, and that probably was really my goal.
-How old were you at the time?
-18.
-Yeah, and that seems pretty normal.
Somebody is looking for that next step.
Maybe not -- college isn't what you want, or the workforce isn't what you want.
And then you choose the military.
So, Colleen, was that how you came to be in the military, or what was your story?
-Well, my story is a little different.
I'm the daughter of a World War II veteran.
My father served in Okinawa and Korea, and my uncles were Marines who served in Vietnam.
-Troy, New York, native Colleen Bushnell enlisted in the Air Force in 1997 and served as a public affairs officer.
During her career, she was the victim of a military sexual assault.
Sadly, her perpetrator was never brought to justice.
But that's why she fights now -- to change the laws that once protected him and others like him from prosecution.
-I enlisted when I was 25.
I was married.
My husband and I went through basic training together.
So my goal at the time was to... Basically, I -- we weren't ready to start a family, so I wanted to earn some credentials that might help my resume later in life as a woman.
And also, I -- I desired to serve my country in my father's footsteps.
-Did you feel significantly older than the average?
-I did.
I had worked for a corporate -- a bank, a corporation in Albany prior to enlisting.
So I had some more life experience and it made some -- it made me suspect with a lot of the young airmen, they would often remark that they thought I was OSI.
-Like, a plant waiting for them to do something wrong?
-Yeah, I was there to observe, but that wasn't -- no, that wasn't the case.
But I was assigned to public -- to teach -- or, excuse me, public affairs at the Defense Information School, which was an amazing opportunity that I was really pleased with.
-So you chose Air Force.
Why'd you lean toward that?
-Well, my father, having been in the Army, forbid me to join any other branch but the Air Force, so... And my -- my ex-husband, that was his goal.
So he ended up a stealth crew chief, and he eventually got a commission.
But we divorced shortly after tech school.
We grew up together, were good friends, but that was -- it was just, uh, a decision to go on a small adventure that was meant to last four years.
It ended up almost ten years and definitely was life changing.
-Wow.
Stephanie, how -- Where are you from, what branch of service, and what did you do in the military?
-Born and raised in San Antonio, Texas.
And I wish I had a really extraordinary story behind why I decided to enter.
But what I can tell you is that I was intrigued at a young age, knowing that my grandfather on my mom's side had served in the United States Navy.
And, you know, he was a force to be reckoned with.
That I remember.
And then my grandfather on my father's side was a Purple Heart recipient as a result of World War II.
And so for me, I mean, it was -- it was really, again, intriguing.
And I wanted to know, you know, why did -- why did they decide this?
And, you know, for him to earn a Purple Heart, you know, that was something that was heroic in my mind as a young lady.
-Stephanie Gattas enlisted in 1994 from Texas.
And like many other Navy sailors, she served aboard a ship.
While underway, she was relentlessly stalked, but the command did not act until it was too late.
Stephanie now leads the Pink Berets, which is an organization helping other military sexual trauma survivors to heal.
-I distinctly recall that when I did make the decision to join the Navy, I did so without letting my family know that I had decided that I was going into the military.
And I think that was kind of the shocker.
Like, "Wait a minute, what do you mean you're leaving in a couple of weeks?"
And I think they initially thought I was joking.
But they soon learned that that was not the case.
It was like, "United States Navy.
Yep.
That sounds great.
Gonna travel, I'm out," and I joined.
And I remember thinking soon thereafter, "What have I done?"
And I don't know if that's on everyone's mind when they first joined, but I think everything just happened so quickly.
But for me, again, it was a way of discovering my independence and what it was that I wanted to do.
And, you know, I think that when you're out of high school, you have all these dreams, all these thoughts of what you can do and who you can be, and for me, I thought the military could definitely help me discover what it was that I was going to do.
-It sounds like a pretty resounding theme, you know, like, finding yourself, having security, you know, building an identity.
Did you all feel like you had achieved that at any point in your careers?
-I'm certain I did not.
And only because of, I think, the things that I was subjected to.
But I think I had a different process played out in my mind.
But it doesn't mean that it didn't teach me a lot about myself, because it did.
I think it made me who I am today.
I just know that I didn't know who I needed to be or who I would be while I was serving.
But that was my experience, of course.
-I did not find the safety I was looking for, in no way, shape or means.
Am I glad I did it?
Yeah.
I got away from home and it did shape the rest of my life, but not quite in the way I had envisioned.
-I would say the military was definitely formative for me.
I had some amazing experiences.
I felt a duck to water in public affairs.
I, uh, changed my duty station every two years, which exposed me to various aspects of the mission.
I don't know if it was luck or fate, but just real fortunate to have dealt with some very important incidents and crisis communication.
I was on hand on September 11th where the president hid out in Omaha, Nebraska.
So, I -- I would be lying if I said that the military did not afford me incredible opportunities to grow and -- and to learn, which was -- kind of added to the tragedy of the loss.
You know, throughout my ordeal, I felt -- I'll say this, and I -- and I say it not just on my own behalf, but on behalf of so many talented men and women service members that the military lost a really valuable asset in me.
You know.
So that just really kind of compounded the frustration at the poor handling of... criminal conduct.
-Okay, well, let's -- let's talk about that.
-Yeah.
-Yeah.
I was going to say that's a great segue into a deeper conversation.
-And I think we should go there.
And I think let's dive right in.
And I'll start by sharing.
Now, I had been in less than four years -- I think by the -- by the time of my first eye-opening experience, I had been in maybe two and a half years.
So my first duty station was in Omaha, Nebraska.
I know you mentioned Offutt.
Well, I was lucky enough to get a follow-on assignment to England.
And, you know, I mean, I was a young kid in Europe.
I did what all young kids do when they have their first taste of freedom.
I was out, you know, I was out enjoying my life with my friends, my girlfriends.
We'd go out dancing.
We'd probably consume way too much alcohol and -- and just have a lot of fun, and maybe by other people's perception that gave me, through their eyes, that I was sort of loose in my morals or whatever else.
I don't know -- because remember, like, I feel like there's this unspoken thing that you can be one of two things in the military, a bitch or a slut, and at some point somebody is going to perceive you either way, sadly.
So needless to say, I had this, this thought that there are rules.
We have the Uniform Code of Military Justice that outlines how we need to behave ourselves and that we all go through zero tolerance policy training where they say, okay, it's not okay to sexually harass somebody, it's not okay to sexually assault somebody -- like the basic fundamentals of good human-hood, right?
So I had an encountered -- out in the club, I had encountered a senior NCO who who approached me, and I was like, no, thanks.
You know, just because I look at you doesn't mean I want to go on a date with you.
I'm not interested, whatever.
And for me, it was just so... Hey, I was drinking, you were drinking, no, thanks, moving on.
Well, the next day -- or the next duty day, I went in and somebody -- that individual was a senior NCO in my sister flight.
So I had my flight, and then I had my sister flight.
Well, I had a friend in that sister flight who came over to me and said, "Hey, this guy is going around saying that you're a -- you know, you're really easy or slut, you're this or that," and so he's basically telling all the other men in that unit that I'm trashy and -- bringing me down.
I was like, "Oh, no, that's not okay.
Not okay," so I went and I told my immediate supervisor, a woman, and she did the great thing and put it up the chain of command to another woman.
Suddenly I'm in the office with my flight senior NCO, my direct supervisor, and my alleged -- my alleged perpetrator.
And suddenly I find that, you know, it's my word against his, it didn't happen.
But it -- but everybody who was in that room heard him say that, heard it.
So why all of a sudden are there -- is nobody stepping forward?
All I know, I was suddenly in an office and I was called to the carpet.
The next thing I know, I'm taken out of my unit -- because he's a senior NCO who's had a really great career.
And, you know, he's close to retirement.
Something like this would be a mar on his record and would likely ruin his ability to get promoted or stay in the military.
So instead, I got taken out of my job, out of my office, and put into another place on base just for -- just for calling somebody to account for their behavior.
-Well, and this is, if I may, analogous to this system.
It's systemization.
I call it cutting out the cancer.
Oftentimes, I'll meet service members from all eras and I'll explain that I'm an advocate for reform regarding military sexual assault.
And they'll have served and they'll say to me, "I didn't know there was a problem."
And I'll say, because the military culture is so adept at removing the cancer, which is the victim, that you don't even know anything happened.
You simply stood your ground.
And yet this isn't something that other folks on the base will learn of because the chain of command facilitates a pipeline for dealing with the victim.
You spoke up.
You turn into the red flag.
You were brought into the office.
You're dealt with, processed and removed.
And this is why oftentimes our peers, even retirees, say, I didn't know this was a problem.
And I'll say there were women and men who were assaulted in your midst and removed and you didn't even know.
-I was a young and impressionable individual.
And if the system failed me then, for -- and then everybody was looking at me like I was a pariah because I called somebody out on their -- on their BS.
-Right.
-And then suddenly I'm the one being punished.
So that set the tone for the rest of my career and how I was going to handle future interactions.
And trust me, they happened, sadly, but I never reported it because what the hell was going to happen?
I was going to take -- be taken out of the job that I worked so hard to do, and I didn't want to do that again.
So I was just like, "Shut up and color."
-Sometimes I look back and think, What could I have done differently?
But it's not so much what you could have done differently.
I think it's -- it's one of those teachable moments, "Okay, this happened."
And when someone else comes to me and talks about their experience, maybe I'll understand how to lead them through it in a better fashion than what I experienced.
So I'll give you an instance where I had an issue with being stalked, and I brought it to the military police and I told them, this person is stalking me in the evenings and it's making me uncomfortable.
And I had to turn around and defend myself.
And it wasn't an instance of freeze or flight.
For me, it was about -- my reaction was to fight, right?
To throw these derogatory terms out at this individual, to show like, "okay, I'm not scared," but I'm scared, right, so I'm going to use this as my defense mechanism.
So I had to let them know, listen, this is -- this isn't okay.
"We'll have a talk with him."
And I thought to myself, "That's -- that's all you're going to do is have a talk with this individual?"
Let me fast forward to a different instance where -- by trade, I'm a prankster.
Well, we were on a ship and a friend of mine and I went to the berthing, and we're getting ready to mess with one of our friends racks and put a whole bunch of things on it.
So when they returned to their rack, there was something all over it.
Well, one of the women that was in charge of the berthing came in and we immediately jumped into the rack, because we weren't supposed to be there.
So we immediately both jumped into a rack and we're laughing because we're like, "Oh, my God, we're going to get caught," right, they're gonna know it's us," and she pulls back the curtain, 'cause you can pull the curtain on your -- on your rack -- and we're both they're like, oh, my gosh, we've been caught.
So the level of... [ Laughs ] I don't even know why it turned into something as big as it did, but we ended up being turned over to the legal department.
And I'm thinking to myself, we're just hiding in the rack, like, you know, we're just playing a prank on somebody.
We didn't think outside of what they were thinking of.
And so when we went to the legal department, we had to sit in front of JAG.
He asked, "Are you two lesbians?"
And I remember sitting there, and -- and, again, like you said earlier, I mean, you're... someone who is still young and you're still learning and those experiences are going to shape how you think about things in the future.
-So, wait, they thought you were having sex.
And to be fair, let's make sure we make it clear, this was during the "don't ask, don't tell" Navy, when you weren't allowed to have same-sex relationships.
-Absolutely not.
-Yeah, so that was a big deal.
-But it was a learning experience as well.
Like, well, wait a minute.
Where did you get that from?
You know, I'm certainly not going to be made to feel like, oh, that's wrong if that's what you are.
You know what I mean?
Anybody should be proud to be whomever they are.
So at that moment, I was like, "No, I'm not."
And I'm thinking to myself again -- you know, I'm naive.
They took more action in what they thought was homosexuality, if you will, being a lesbian, than they took knowing that there was a perpetrator on my heels.
And that was disappointing.
-You just gave me chills.
Like, I mean -- -Well, think about it.
What they gave more power to, versus what they should have been paying attention to all along.
-Yeah.
-Because then that ended up -- that ended up turning into an assault, all because they thought it was more important to know if I was a lesbian than if I was a victim.
-Right.
-And so that shaped my outlook on what it was they cared about more.
Was it the way that the military would reveal itself?
Or was it the people internally?
-Mm-hmm.
-Right?
The people that are defending their country.
-Well, I'm so glad you brought that up, because there's far too many people who have been victimized who end up internalizing it -- they don't report it.
Or if they do, they're ill treated and then they're treated as a pariah.
And then, you know, for one reason or another, maybe they're self-medicating through alcoholism or maybe it's drugs, or maybe it's a mental health break.
And then suddenly you're -- you're having -- you're having a mental break.
And then the military is like, "Unh-uh, sorry, that's not going to work, you're out," without even addressing what the root of the problem was in the first place.
So, Connie, do you mind sharing a little bit about what your experiences were?
-Well, my experience in the hospital was my -- the commander of my unit was constantly after me.
We went into rooms a lot, private rooms, doing eye exams.
And he was constantly badgering me for sex.
And I didn't even think about reporting him, like, "Oh, well, it's just, it's okay, I just" -- he didn't push it.
But then when my actual gang rape occurred and I had to go to him and report it after -- after going to the health clinic, he did turn it over to the men's boss and it was all just swept under the rug.
They said, well, their word against your word.
And they didn't deny the fact that there was sexual contact, but they said it was consensual and, um, same thing -- I was just kind of given an easy way out.
-So did you -- So you reported it?
-I reported.
I went to health clinic.
I reported it to my commander who reported it to their commander.
They worked in mental health.
And, um -- -So the perpetrators worked in mental health.
Oh, the irony.
-The irony.
-And so everybody knew and, you know, they talked to them privately.
And so it was just -- -Privately.
Not even a justice system.
-Just privately.
And it was all just swept away.
And they offered me an easy out and I took it.
But I had planned on staying in, I was going to -- I had just gotten approved for my animal husbandry school.
-You know what you just said, the easy out -- but that was the hardest out.
-It was for me.
-Because now you're on your own with no support, no food, water, shelter, and you've got this traumatizing experience that you probably haven't processed.
What was life like in the wake of that?
Can you share that with me?
-The wake of it, I think I, at the time, I was so naive and everything happened so fast that I -- I did, I partied.
I was in Colorado, I went on -- I hiked.
I just kind of swept it away.
And it's true impact didn't come out until many years later, or...
Things were going on mentally for me that I didn't recognize the connection, and I thought I was just going crazy.
I thought there's some -- well, I was broken.
There was something wrong with me.
And so I think, lifelong, it taught me, one, don't trust people, especially don't trust people in uniform or people in authority -- and this is almost 50 years ago.
-That there, it angers me.
It angers me to my core to know that you decided to serve our country, and they decided what you should do.
They decided your life for you thereafter because of something they failed to do, which was to protect you.
-Was to protect me.
They took away my dreams, really.
-And how do you reconcile that?
And here we are, 50 years later, still having similar conversations.
-The same conversations.
-Why?
Why?
And I think that that's why we -- our driving force sometimes has to be the stories that aren't told.
I've never learned Connie's story until now.
And this is a prime example of why there's still so much work left to be done, because there's still a lot of -- there's a lot of stories that have not been uncovered.
-Right.
-I have family members and friends to this day that have not heard that story.
And that's way abbreviated.
-There are so many stories.
Many will never be uncovered.
I think what we need to do is, we need a new conversation about solutions.
When I arrived at Lackland in 2003, I was like a lot of young women who appreciated the structure of the military environment because it facilitated my access to opportunities in a male dominated workplace, unlike in the civilian sector.
So I felt standards of conduct were actually a benefit.
So when I saw a senior civilian being physical with one of my airmen, who is young, and I felt a responsibility, and I took my concerns to our female commander about this man's behavior.
And that was the beginning of my -- It was a turning point in my life.
I did not know that my commander had alleged that this, um... senior civilian employee had raped her 12 years before.
I was not aware of that.
-So they had been left in that unit, even though there was a standing... -So, he came to work for her 12 years later, they're both -- she was his superior and they're both in the same office.
And she, unbeknownst to me, is trying to get help to remove him from the staff.
I report his conduct unwittingly to the chain of command, who happened to be this officer.
-Oh, right.
-And was later told that she shared my report with him because they were in conflict -- he was harassing her, couldn't -- she couldn't remove him.
He had come from Washington, D.C., and knew influential people on Capitol Hill.
I went about my business and he socially turned the staff against me.
And so when I was stigmatized, I didn't understand why folks did not seem to like me.
So, that was the first time I went for counseling.
And he was my supervisor and he took me to a base hotel under false premises.
It was during an event where he took me to the hotel and then he raped me.
And then we returned to the event.
I was not in any frame of mind to report what he had done.
I feared him.
I could see that he had informal social influence over the group and there was some sort of conflict.
And his abuse went on for about a year.
And in that time, he let me know that he forgave me for going to the commander about my airmen.
-He forgave you?
-Well, that's very big of him.
-Which told me why his motive for raping me.
Fast forward to the following year, I returned from a deployment, and so did my commander.
We went to a cocktail party after a conference in San Antonio with other public affairs professionals, and she became unhinged in uniform, in public.
Instead of calling back to the base, which I now regret, I took her to her room to protect her from herself.
And she sexually approached me.
At which point I hit a breaking point.
And so I ended up leaving and going to the Area Defense Counsel the next morning and letting them know what she had done, hoping that she would get help.
She had been crying that evening that he had done this to her, that she had become pregnant and lost her husband over the incident 12 years earlier.
All of this information -- I'm a E-5, she's a lieutenant colonel, being flooded on all these roads converging.
My commander started calling me, threatening me while the first sergeant was listening, with AWOL.
They put me and my sons in hiding to protect us.
And unfortunately, she took her life within about 48 hours.
-That's a lot to carry.
-Yeah.
So that is why I'm an advocate today.
It turned the world inside out as far as what I thought Good order and discipline and standards of conduct meant.
And then speaking to the homosexual misconduct issue, although I feel strongly that General Hertog was a blessing, to have a female commander, they had to go through the necessary legal protocols because I admitted that there was some kind of sexual scenario that happened.
I was threatened with homosexual misconduct charges.
-Because, again, it was during the "don't ask, don't tell" generation.
-They said they hadn't reformed the law to protect victims of sexual violence in a homosexual situation.
So that made me liable for criminal accountability.
-It just seems that there's always a loophole of some sort, Right?
There's always a way -- -Well, and that's where we're at today, which is -- and in its wonderful since the beginning of the introduction of the Military Justice Improvement Act, that we have passed almost 50 provisions to try to reshape the military justice system.
Some folks are ready to take these cases out of the chain of command -- I'm one of them.
Others are still in a wait-and-see pattern.
-Well, Connie's an example.
-It passed.
-It's -- they've had 50 years.
-Yeah.
-So I don't think there should be a wait-and-see.
-Well, 1948 -- even more.
-More than 50 years.
-I'm saying we have a living example of how much time they should have really thought about the broken processes.
-And that reveals to us that there is a fundamental ideology at play that is preventing lawmakers and those in positions of responsibility from making the change, and I have to believe that the individuals who are keeping us from passing fundamental reforms believe that they are doing the right thing for our military and for our country.
I have to believe that they believe that they have good intentions.
I just think we need a new conversation.
I think we need new language in order to help for our generations, to show Pentagon leadership past and present that there is a way forward.
-Absolutely, there's a way forward.
-Do you think it's lack of interest on their part?
-No, they're very interested.
-Interested, but.
-But there's a lot at stake.
We're talking about a hierarchical organization that is male dominated.
A war fighting entity.
It's very -- there's a lot at stake.
-So what can our civilian friends and allies do to help bring about systemic change?
-Most important thing the American public can do in their daily lives is to support the service members in their families while they're serving.
Too often, we're shipping our children off to the military.
We idealize what they're about to do and we don't keep watch over their welfare as much as we would if they were at college.
We just assume that the military will take care of them and that they're ready for the level of sophistication they're about to engage in the military, and they're not; if your son or daughter, especially your daughter, is in the military, it is your job to watch over them, because you are -- the military recognizes systems, and the family unit is a system.
And if your son or daughter is under duress, you may be one of the only people who have leverage to protect them and help them manage whatever problems they may encounter.
-Yeah.
-If your son or daughter are serving, you have to be an advocate in all facets.
And I say this because, you know, I have this experience with the grassroots initiative where I worked with various women from various organizations all over the United States for the Vanessa Guillen bill to pass.
And so what it did was it prompted this grassroots effort across the U.S., not just with myself -- I was brought into the equation, but women came together and said, we have to... we have to make that change now and we have to be loud and clear about this.
And because we were loud and clear, the groundwork that women had laid for 20-plus years in terms of sexual assault and sexual harassment was now being turned into a bill.
But in the name of Vanessa Guillen -- it's unfortunate that she was the catalyst for this change to take place, but it's a great example of what can happen when you advocate and you bring a number of women together.
-Well, and what you're pointing to is exactly what I said earlier, which was -- and as -- as you did, I was following Vanessa's case from minute one before it it turned into the viral phenomenon that it did and ended up in President Trump's office.
But it was her family, their interest in their loved one that changed the conversation.
-It really did.
-Yeah.
-And I've mentioned that on more than one occasion that, if you did not have a family that was fighting for justice as fiercely as they were, I don't know that we would have seen the results that we see today.
-Yeah.
-I'm curious, Connie, what were the reasons behind not calling your your dad or calling some some part of your family for -- -Pure shame.
-Shame.
-That I allowed this to happen to me, somehow that I was broken.
Somehow I had asked for it.
-What made you feel that way, though?
Like, what... What would set you -- -I think maybe because that I wasn't believed on -- on any other level, that my concerns were not taken seriously.
It was easier for them to move me out than to address any of the issues.
-But we put -- as a society, I think, we put, like... Shame -- God, that's -- that's a really heavy word because -- -I still carry it.
-Yeah.
Yeah.
-I've done a lot of work to, um, to erase that, but it's still there.
-But I think they capitalize on the vulnerabilities.
-Right.
-Right?
And I think that that, um -- and although, you know, her experience is obviously very different, you know, there's a reason she's sitting here today.
-Yeah.
-And her story is going to change someone's mind.
-I hope so.
-It's going to help them realize, "You know what?
I'm Connie."
-Mm-hmm.
-And it's going to take them out of that comfort zone of just allowing that story to stay with them.
So my hope is that, with you sharing what you've shared with us today, which, thank you, by the way, because it is a privilege to sit here with you, not only because you laid the groundwork for women like myself today, but you created this legacy of what it means to serve, regardless of how long you served or what took place, you still made an oath to serve your country, and that's what you should be proud of.
-I am still.
-Wholeheartedly.
-Yeah.
-Because you -- Yes, thank you.
-I completely agree.
-Thank you, Connie.
-And when I think of, you know, your remarks about shame, it reminds us that the military life is very unique and it has to do with the Uniform Code of Military Justice being an insulated structure that we live and work in.
But when you called home, or I called home, our sisters, our mothers may have also experienced sexual assault.
So this problem is, it's an issue on the civilian side, it's an issue in the military.
And the paradox is that our families believe that because we are in the military, we have more cover, or that, if anything, anything happened in the military, because they have an ideal perception of the military that you must have been at fault.
So the beauty of women veterans who speak out, even today, we're seeing 18, 19 year old women get on social media, unlike any time in our history, and speak out while on active duty, which comes with its own set of considerations.
But since the '60s and the '70s, when women, women veterans were speaking out then about sexual assault, they weren't getting heard.
Tailhook comes along.
Paula Coughlin, historical work that she did in raising awareness, and she helped to form Protect Our Defenders today, which formed the Foundation for Reform, which was at the ready when Vanessa Guillen's family took action.
So we see the progress happening, and you have a lineage and a legacy and you're part of that.
And you have -- We're standing on your shoulders, is what I'm trying to say.
-I may not have lived for the last 48 years with PTSD if I had spoken up or gotten counseling or some kind of assistance then instead of just trying to deal with it myself.
Very hard for the last ten years working on calming down my whole nervous system.
-Yeah.
Can you talk to me a little bit about what your self-care looked like over those years?
-From when?
-I mean, I know there was a time where you struggled with homelessness, and I'm sure some of this probably was an exacerbation of that.
And can you tell me a little bit about, like, so your self-care, maybe it was just trying to push it down and maybe running from it.
You know, I know with my mental health struggles, I tend to keep really, really busy, almost to a toxic extent, and I feel like I'm running from the crazy constantly.
And the minute I calm down, all of the things that I try to keep out in my mind suddenly come rushing back.
So I just keep moving until I drop dead tired.
-I think I'm still doing that now.
-Are you?
-Oh, gosh.
I had to come here to rest.
-That is so relatable.
Yeah.
Hearing you talk, it's like holding a mirror to myself.
You're right.
I like to tell people I fire on all cylinders all the time because things do come to surface, and there's triggers all around us, right?
So, yeah, I'm -- I'm interested in learning how all these years you've learned to cope.
-Well, at different points in time, I -- I used alcohol, I became a drug addict, which was basically the cause of my homelessness.
I had a stable with 12 horses.
It was kind of crazy.
I -- somehow I never gave up.
Somehow -- it was my animals that kept me going.
I tried everything, I mean -- I did manage to get from -- go from homeless to getting a job at an all night gas station, and I was thrilled.
They don't have -- didn't have the homeless advocacy that they have now.
If you didn't have a telephone or an address or... -What was it like to be a woman homeless.
-It was terrifying.
When you're down in that hole, it's really hard to get out.
People look at you on the street like what you have is contagious.
It's really hard.
But I did it, and -- and now I'm starting to thrive.
I do, um, trauma-informed yoga.
I have a counselor that the VA pays for.
He's kind of -- I say he's like my spiritual guru, but he's, um, he's taught me that the one thing I can trust is my connection to spirit.
And it's always there.
And maybe you can't ever trust people again, but you can trust that.
-I look at you and I think, you know, of all the things that you've worked through, and I don't -- I hate saying "getting over it," because I don't think these are experiences that you get over, but you carry them with you and you find a way to carry them that they're not such a burden.
At some point you hope that it becomes that way and that you have a community to help you carry that burden from time to time.
And in finding other ways to... keep moving forward with it.
And it sounds like -- it sounds like you're on that path.
-My counselor's trying to teach me to use those experiences, as traumatic as they were, and appreciate them for what they're teaching me because the source gives you lessons.
And, you know, sometimes it hammers you over the head if you don't listen to the easier ones.
And until you start to get it -- and I always wanted to shut those feelings down.
I did it with drugs.
I did it with the VA. You go to the VA and all they did was prescribe me drugs and I couldn't tolerate them.
I mean, well, I took them for ten years, but the antidepressants -- but on that, they did save my life at that time.
-Right.
-When I was so far down in the hole, their medications allowed me to keep getting up in the morning.
-So you were going through the VA system at a time where it was definitely a different kind of environment, and maybe at the risk of being revictimized -- can you tell me, like, what your VA experience was?
-I don't think it's that so much different now.
Yeah, they were saying, well, you're a drug addict, you're not disabled.
You're, you know, and they they labeled me.
If you look at my record today, it says habitual drug offender.
I haven't used drugs in 40 years.
-No description of an underlying reason as to why you were utilizing drugs.
-And that's a travesty, too.
-It is.
It is.
-And I think, like, what's -- When I listen to your story and your life experience, it just drives home for me how ready we are for some -- some change, that science and society has caught up with a lot of things you describe -- in other words, what would your life have been like had you had Crime Victim Services the minute you reported an attack?
There is a fundamental fear that to take better -- to promote self-care among service members is to weaken the identity of the war fighting establishment.
And as much as I think it's well-intended, I think that is the fundamental problem holding back progress.
I think that teaching people how to master themselves and their emotions and how they interact with others is completely compatible with good order and discipline.
-We can't just say these are the problems and then look for them to address it as well.
We have to bring the solutions to the forefront and all the data necessary for them to understand what the way forward looks like.
Anybody that says the system isn't broken isn't -- needs a reality check, at the end of the day, because the reality is, it is a broken system.
And if we don't fix the system, guess what?
Our military is already weak.
-Right.
-It's not a matter of will it be weak, it is, because we don't have the structure needed.
I feel like there's so much that can be done, but I think she's also said something that's very important here, and that fear is really one of those factors that play into everything.
People have a fear of bringing it up to to leadership.
-Well, a fear of shame.
Like we already feel that shame.
We don't want others to be feeling shame for us.
-Or a fear of defending a victim in the chain of command.
-That's a good one.
-Taking a stand.
-Yeah, that's tough.
-A fear of what you have to lose in doing the right thing.
-Right.
-Look at a lot of the leadership, I mean, some of the people that are greatly admired in this country are known to be predators of women.
I mean, people in the Supreme Court, people, you know, at all levels of our government.
-Can we pause for a second?
-Absolutely.
-Because I think one thing that we kind of address and we kind of brushed over really lightly is the UCMJ.
-Yes.
-And I wonder -- I wonder if that needs a little bit of an overhaul, too.
-It does.
-That's an understatement.
-Well, we are.
-As I chug my water.
-We passed 50 provisions, and the concern is that if we take these cases outside of the chain of command, it will fundamentally weaken command and control on the battlefield; it would be a slippery slope.
I tend to believe that's a fear-based way to look at things.
-The UCMJ outlines everything about how we're supposed to conduct ourselves.
We don't include psychological behavior or, you know, we touch on a little bit about behaviors amongst ourselves.
But really, on the very surface, what I'm looking at are the catalysts or the environments that set these -- that set these traumas up.
You know, like, what makes a perpetrator successful?
Alcohol, maybe excessive use of alcohol.
And I told you from the very beginning I was out partying with my girls, drinking way too much.
I was in Europe drinking at 18, 19 years old.
-There's no... -There's no rules!
-There's no rules.
-Lacking psychoeducation.
And that is where I say we need to accelerate the emotional maturity of our enlistees from a young age so that when they have that opportunity -- and this is what transforms the culture, we do that, and that airman is going to think twice before they go out drinking and partying.
Drinking and partying does not have to be a rite of passage to military service.
-Right.
Well, let's talk about the civilian side of the house for a second, because, you know, we're -- we are like, if you think of the nation as a pie and you cut a slice of that pie and you put it in a uniform, that's all of us together, right?
People from all walks of life and from all over the country.
So if we, even on the outside, can't get our stuff together, then how can the military be expected to do that when we're just pulling from that pie and putting them in a uniform?
-It's a mystery sometimes why answers don't come sooner.
I personally am very hopeful, with the work I've been doing to protect our defenders and women like you.
Who are working hand in hand in your local community.
We are open to new solutions and a new way forward.
And I think the shaming and the blaming and the guilt, we really got to set that aside because that's not where the answer lies.
-I feel like it's a learned experience every day because it is based on individuals and it is based on feedback and it is based on understanding where women and men are today.
And let's not forget, you know, our transgender folks either, right?
Because this is a new world that we live in, you know, regardless of the way that we have to view it, we have to, you know, address the elephant in the room with everyone.
And I can tell you right now that you empower one, you empower many.
And then that's really the approach that we try to take.
And we do try to take it from the standpoint where there's no medicinal intervention, that they can see that they're able to take steps forward with holistic approach, but they're also able to take ways forward by being educated, by growing in knowledge about themselves, by having someone come alongside them and tell them, "Listen, I get it, I've been there, but I'm going to help you walk, you know, through the fire that you've been forged from."
We can have an individual come to our program and they can be provided services at no cost.
Well, we've removed the financial barrier in order for them to know that help is possible.
But then you're also looking at an individual who has struggled with chemical dependency or who has struggled with alcoholism.
So now we're facing a different battle.
Now we have to make sure that person gets treatment.
And so when you come across one individual, that can turn into many things, and so for us, empowering doesn't just come from the work we do alone.
It comes from our community.
So our community partnerships, our community collaborators, you know, women and men that I meet here today that I know I could trust to call and say, this person needs you in some fashion and be able to do that.
And when you think about leadership or some of the people in command that only hear the aftermath of it, they don't hear people who are telling their stories for the first time.
They don't hear the result of women who have been raped and have a child as a result of that rape.
Their life is forever changed.
You don't hear about the women and their infertility issues because of the rape.
You don't hear about the men who are having to have a different type of medical equipment, without being very graphic, because of what happened to them when they were sodomized.
All these stories we hear at our level, and we're left to understand, how can we empower them?
How can we keep them from choosing suicide as an outlet?
So, I can tell you that it's taken years for people to be receptive to an all women's organization.
I was told, "I don't think it'll work."
MST at that time was still stigmatized.
Nobody wanted to talk about military sexual trauma, right?
And when you look at military sexual trauma, it's an umbrella and you've got your racial disparities, you've got your sexual harassment that can happen on a multitude of levels.
I've heard, you know, more than one instance here.
And then you have your actual assault, you have your rape.
Right?
Let's call that exactly what it is.
It's not someone that was lightly assaulted.
It's not somebody that was patted on the back.
It was somebody that was raped.
And so for us, it was really important to help bring that conversation to a room where nobody wanted to talk about it, because the more uncomfortable people become, the more they're going to listen to what it is that you have to say, if that makes any sense.
-It challenges their idea of what our military is and what America's identity is.
-Right!
-When we say that a fellow service member violated a fellow service member.
-And let me be clear, we say the military a lot, but when you look at the military again, it made me who I am, right?
It's not "the military's a bad place to be," absolutely not.
We have some successful people in the military and people that have of exited the military that have done wonderful things.
It's the people that have given the perpetrators -- right -- the criminals -- that have given it a bad name.
-Right.
-Just like they could a corporate entity or just like they could a university -- you know, "Oh, don't go to that university, you might get raped."
It's similar.
-This is where I get frustrated because I think to myself, when I think of male leadership, I would just be so offended as a male to think that there are men donning the honorable uniform, perpetrating women and besmirching our nation's legacy.
That has always escaped me.
Although, as I said earlier, I do... want to believe that those in power framing and shaping the current narrative are doing so because they think they're doing the right thing.
So then where can we meet them where they're at and convince them that we can make a new way?
-Each and every one of you are so incredibly powerful, and I really appreciate everything you are doing for our brothers and sisters out there.
And if we keep offering substantive change, then maybe the change will happen.
It doesn't -- and I don't want to say it "may be" -- it has to.
And it takes each and every one of us and all of our support groups and our communities and our nation to make that change happen.
So, thank you, and keep up the really good fight.
I would really like to give Connie the last word.
Connie, if there there's anything that you can say to young men and women who are struggling, who've been through an experience like yours, what would you say to them?
-I would say, get help, get a lot of help.
Get it from what resonates with you.
No matter where your passions lie, there are people there who can help you.
If it's horse equine therapy, if it's a service dog, an advocate -- get help.
Don't bottle it up and don't turn into self-sabotage.
-Thank you for your service, ladies.
-Thank you.
-Thank you.
♪♪ -♪ There will be light ♪ ♪ There is a road ♪ ♪ Marching on ♪ ♪ Coming home ♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪